Newell Brands Q4 2022 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
February 10, 2023

Key Takeaways

  • In Q4, core sales declined 9.4% year-over-year with full 2022 core sales down 3.4% despite 9% two-year stacked growth, and the team drove sequentially stronger cash flow by cutting inventories by over $400 million.
  • They launched Project Phoenix to simplify the operating model into three consumer-centric segments, centralize sales and manufacturing, and expect annualized pretax savings of $222-250 million (with $140-160 million in 2023).
  • Newell reduced SKUs from over 100 000 in 2018 to about 28 000 in 2022, tripling revenue per SKU, while delivering ~3% productivity savings of COGS and achieving various award-winning product innovations.
  • After completing the second wave of Project Orbit supply-chain transformation, they are unifying their global supply chain to leverage distribution, transportation and manufacturing scale for lasting margin improvement.
  • For fiscal 2023, management expects core sales to decline 6-8%, normalized operating margin of 9.6-10.1%, EPS of $0.95-1.08, and free cash flow of $700-900 million, prioritizing cash flow, margin recovery and cost discipline.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Newell Brands Q4 2022
00:00 / 00:00

There are 11 speakers on the call.

Operator

Morning, and welcome to the Newell Brands 4th Quarter and Full Year 2022 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After a brief discussion by management, we will open up the call for questions. In order to stay within the time schedule for the call, please limit yourself to one question during the Q and A session. As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded.

Operator

A live webcast for this call is available at ir. Newellbrands.com. I will now turn the call over to Sofia Sinas, Vice President of Investor Relations. Ms. Sinas, you may begin.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Newell Brands' 4th Quarter and Full Year Earnings Call. On the call with me today are Ravi Saligram, our CEO Chris Peterson, our President and the newest member of the executive team Mark Ercic, our CFO. Before we begin, I'd like to inform you that during the course of today's call, will be making forward looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties.

Speaker 1

Actual results and outcomes may differ materially, and we undertake no obligation to update forward looking statements. I refer you to the cautionary language and risk factors available in our earnings release, our Form 10 ks, Form 10 Q and other SEC filings available on our Investor Relations Web for a further discussion of the factors affecting forward looking statements. Please also recognize that today's remarks will refer to certain non GAAP financial measures, including those we refer to as normalized measures. We believe these non GAAP measures are useful to investors, although they should not be considered superior to the measures presented in accordance with GAAP explanations of these non GAAP measures are available and available reconciliations between GAAP and non GAAP measures And be found in today's earnings release and tables as well as other materials on Niall's Investor Relations website. Thank you.

Speaker 1

And now I'll turn the call over to Ravi.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Sofia. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our year end call. 4th quarter results were in line with our expectations And Brock, to close, a difficult second half. The business continued to be impacted by a tough operating environment, Including slowing consumer demand for general merchandise categories as well as inventory reductions at retail. Our team remains focused on executing our strategic priorities with excellence, while navigating these challenges.

Speaker 2

They did a great job in reducing inventories in the 4th quarter and drove sequentially stronger cash flow performance. For the year, core sales declined 3.4% against a very demanding year ago comparison 12.5% growth. Soft dollar volumes more than offset favorable pricing. 2 year stacked growth Exceeded 9%. The Writing and Commercial businesses delivered core sales growth in 2022, While core sales for the other businesses declined, the company's core sales and domestic consumption Exceeded 2019 levels even as home and outdoor categories are continuing to normalize From peak pandemic levels, many of our major brands such as Rubbermaid, Sharpie, Papermaid, Rubbermaid Commercial Products, Ball, EXPO, Elmer's and Camping Gas showed strength.

Speaker 2

Despite a much tougher than anticipated operating and macro environment in 2020 2, which weighed heavily on the company's results. We made tangible progress across a number of focus areas. 1st, many of our iconic brands were recognized for their innovations. For example, BAW, Stack and Straw Innovation and Good Housekeeping Winning and Organization Award. Graco won the JPMA Innovation Award for Child Restraint Systems with the Graco Turn Twin Car Seat, Coleman Road Trip 285 Standard Propane Grill was recently ranked by Outdoor Grin Lab as the best portable grill in 2022.

Speaker 2

In the U. S, new innovation under Mr. Coffee, Latte 4 in-one received the Good Housekeeping Best Gear and Best Coffee Award. Our latest innovation in writing, Elmer's Quiches, launched exclusively in Q4 at a major retailer With very strong results, in 3 months, it became Newell's top activity item outpacing slime sales over 3:one. National launch of Squishies across U.

Speaker 2

S. Retail will begin in late March 2023. In April of 2022, we launched Your creative kitchen, a unique efficient social media vehicle that allows us to take a panual approach to connect our brands Across consumer life moments and occasions and bring curated content to target consumers, allowing them to repost to their own followers. We've seen a 4 fold increase in engagement through our live presentations and a 90% higher click through rate to our branded websites Since creating your creative kitchen. 2nd, we continue to build operational excellence across the organization By transforming our supply chain through Project Orbit and Automation.

Speaker 2

And earlier this year, we announced the next major step in this journey As we are unifying our global supply chain and centralizing manufacturing, which we expect to drive meaningful margin improvement in the long term. 3rd, we made significant progress on complexity reduction, ending 2022 with about 28,000 SKUs As compared to approximately 36,000 in 2021 and over 100,000 in 2018, Our revenue per SKU has more than tripled versus 2018. We will continue reducing SKUs and accelerate SKU productivity. 4th, we drove another year of strong productivity savings At around 3% of COGS, which in combination with pricing actions, help to mitigate the high single digit headwind from inflation, We will further accelerate our productivity efforts in 2023. And last, But certainly not least, we advanced our corporate citizenship agenda as we continue to galvanize our employees To be a force for good, we strengthened our people first 1 year culture, maintained strong employee engagement at world class norms and committed to carbon neutrality by 2,040 for all Scope 1 and 2 emissions across our global portfolio.

Speaker 2

I'm also pleased to share that for the 2nd consecutive year, Newell Brands has been named 1 Fortune's 2023 World's Most Admired Companies. While we are proud of the operational achievements I believe we are a much more agile company today. We also recognize that the macros have put considerable pressure on our business. We've been taking proactive and decisive actions to effectively navigate the current environment, while positioning the organization for long term success. In late January, we announced Project Phoenix, a major evolution in our operating model and a restructuring program that Expect it to drive significant savings.

Speaker 2

Fenix will further simplify and strengthen our company by leveraging the scale and power of 1U To optimize our cost structure and operate more efficiently. Let me shed more light on Project Phoenix. There are 5 key tenets. 1st, we will combine business units into 3 operating segments based on consumer dynamics And customer commonalities. 2nd, we will centralize our sales efforts for our top four customers.

Speaker 2

3rd, we'll go to a 1 new go to market approach in key international geographies. 4th, We will centralize and unify manufacturing globally. And first, we will strengthen key capabilities, Reduce duplication, enhance role clarity and drive standardization of processes, tools and measurements. We're bringing the Food Home Credence Home Appliances and Commercial businesses under one umbrella, Home and Commercial Solutions, led by Mike McDermott, the Segment CEO. Lisa McCarthy has assumed a new role as Chief Operating Officer of the Home business reporting to Mike.

Speaker 2

Learning and Development, which includes Writing and Baby, is led by Chris Mokowski. Jim Passani will continue to lead our outdoor recreation business. Through this evolution, we will honor the differences and nuances among our businesses and unified our commonalities related to the consumer and customer, while leveraging our scale and enabling Better opportunities for internal mobility. Our iconic brands play a key role in the lives Of nearly every U. S.

Speaker 2

Household, we expect the new operating model to unlock additional growth opportunities For the business over time, we will leverage the power of our brands to meet consumers' daily needs in and out of their homes Through their major Life Moments occasions, our international business remains an important priority for Neuville. In 2023, core sales for international increased 0.4%, significantly outpacing North America despite macro and geopolitical pressures. As part of Project Phoenix, we have continued to reduce international fragmentation by moving to a 1 year go to market approach In key geographies such as Australia and New Zealand, LATAM, Japan and as announced last fall, Canada. We're also evaluating the structure with employee works councils in Europe. This should dramatically reduce fragmentation, accelerate growth and profit trajectory for our international business Over time, an increased depth and breadth of franchise outside of the U.

Speaker 2

S. As part of Project Phoenix in the U. S, We're also moving to a 1 year old sales model for several of our top customers. Centralizing these teams will simplify our customer interaction, Significantly improve the customer experience and strengthen our position as a best in class partner. I'm proud that we've built high, wide, deep and enduring relationships with key customers and are increasingly perceived as a valuable strategic partner.

Speaker 2

Based on the success of Project Abid And in the spirit of 1 new, we are moving to a unified global supply chain organization, which Chris will elaborate on later. As we focus on optimizing our cost structure, we are taking decisive action on our real estate. In a hybrid work environment, we have We just announced closure of our corporate offices in Boca Raton In South Deerfield and earlier this year, the consolidation of our Huntersville campus. We're in the process of assessing other actions. In total, Project Phoenix is expected to result in elimination of approximately 13% While this was a very difficult decision and one we as a leadership team did not take lightly, We made every effort to treat our departing colleagues with respect and dignity, and we are doing all we can to help with their transitions.

Speaker 2

The actions we are undertaking are a continuation of the simplification agenda that we've driven over the last 4 years And in response to the difficult macro environment, we expect Pfenex to yield annualized pretax savings In the $222,000,000 to $250,000,000 range when fully implemented, at its core, Pfenex is not just about Restructuring. It is about leveraging our scale. It is about significantly evolving our operating model to strengthen the company And prepare for the future. As macro conditions remain unfavorable to top line growth, our prime focus in the near term It's cash flow and gross margin improvement. I know Chris is working hard to get his nickname back as the $1,000,000,000 Man.

Speaker 2

Speaking about the future, this morning we also shared that I'll be retiring on May 16.

Operator

It's a very

Speaker 2

bittersweet moment for me. While I look forward to pursuing new interests and spending more time with my family, Including my first granddaughter, Luxe, who was born just a few weeks ago, I'll certainly miss everyone at Newell Brands. It's been a distinct honor and privilege to lead the company over the last several years, and I've loved every day at work. I remain inspired by our talented employees who are passionate, resilient and courageous. I'm very proud Our strong world class executive leadership team who made significant progress in strengthening the company by reducing complexity Are on the journey to rejuvenate our iconic brands to be more modern and relevant, launching successful innovations that leverage pandemic trends, Building e commerce and omni channel is a competitive advantage and transforming our supply chain.

Speaker 2

The team is working diligently To implement Project Fenix and make our new segment based operating model a major success. I want to congratulate Chris On his well deserved elevation to the new CEO, Newell. He's been a true partner to me in the turnaround, and I believe he is the right person With the right skill set and right temperament to take Kneel to the next level. I know our leadership team respects Chris and will strongly support him to deliver our key priorities. I'll be partnering closely with Chris to ensure a Smooth and seamless transition and will focus my efforts on ensuring a successful execution of Project Phoenix, Accelerate momentum on international and rallying the organization to overcome macro challenges with speed and dexterity.

Speaker 2

I'm also pleased to welcome Mark to Neul's leadership team at his first earnings call with us. I believe his multiple experiences The CFO will add significant value to Neuron Brands, and I'm confident that he and Chris will be a powerful combination to move Neuron forward. Despite the macro headwinds the company faces, I am optimistic about the future of Muir. We have great brands that consumers love. We have built e com and omnichannel progress.

Speaker 2

We have excellent customer relationships and are reigniting the processes and passion to drive meaningful innovation. We believe we will return to driving sustainable, profitable growth once the economy turns in our favor. Our best days are ahead of us, on roads and off roads. And now I turn over to Mark for the remarks.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Robbie, and good morning, everyone. Over the last 4 weeks, I've immersed myself in the business and the organization. And during that time, in many ways, it felt like I was getting reacquainted with an old friend. I say that because after spending the first 18 years of my career at Procter and Gamble, I spent the next 13 years learning the ins and outs of building products, transportation, luxury goods and healthcare information technology. Those unique experiences, I believe, prepared me well as I now come full circle and return to my first true business love, which is consumer products, Where deep consumer insights, differentiated innovation, creative 360 degree marketing, operational excellence The first moment of truth all reigns supreme.

Speaker 3

I undoubtedly still have a great deal more to learn, but in my brief time at Newell Brands, I've already made some high level observations, I'd like to share with you. First, it is clear to me that over the last couple of years, Newell Brands under Robbie and Chris' leadership Has built a great team within a strong mission driven culture that guides the behavior of 28,000 dedicated professionals We strive each day to bring value to the business and the organization. 2nd, dramatic steps have been taken to simplify and streamline the business, which were necessary prerequisites for us to improve our speed, agility and financial performance going forward. 3rd, the bold actions recently announced as part of Project Phoenix to reduce overhead costs and create scale across manufacturing, distribution and transportation And customer service are our key business and organizational enablers, which I believe will serve us very well in the years ahead. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there is broad recognition across the entire company that while these past and current actions are all steps in the right direction, There is much more work that needs to

Speaker 2

be done. My

Speaker 3

interactions have led me to the conclusion that the organization is eager and excited about the future Because Newell has a robust portfolio of leading brands with strong market share positions, which when coupled with the right capabilities Should allow us to continue on our journey towards becoming a world class innovation led consumer driven company that can consistently grow sales and expand margins year after year and in doing so generate meaningful levels of total shareholder return. Personally, I am excited, honored and humbled And I'll now turn the call over to Chris.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Mark, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to echo Ravi's sentiment by welcoming Mark to the team. Mark and I have known each other for a long time having worked together at P&G. Although Mark has only been here for a short time, I can already see what a great fit he is for and look forward to partnering with him and the rest of the leadership team to unlock the full potential of the business. I would also like to thank Robbie for his leadership and partnership Over the past several years, I've admired his passion, commitment and people first mindset, which are infectious and have reinvigorated the company's culture.

Speaker 4

I'm honored and excited to become the next CEO of Newell Brands. In my new capacity, I look forward to working with our leadership team, The Board and all of Newell's dedicated and talented professionals around the world to drive shareholder value creation through diligent and thoughtful execution of our strategic agenda. Before jumping into results, I'd like to take a few minutes to talk about some of the key business and organizational initiatives we have recently taken to strengthen the company's operational foundation. As we've mentioned before, a key component of our aspiration to become a TSR leader in our industry It's predicated on creating a scaled world class supply chain that positions Newell as the retailer partner of choice from a service, Reliability and capability standpoint and leads to breakthrough value creation in terms of margins, cash and reduced complexity. Consistent with that, on February 1, we seamlessly implemented the 2nd go live wave of Project Ovid across the remaining food categories as well as the Writing, Outdoor and Rec and Commercial businesses.

Speaker 4

Having reached this major milestone in Newell's supply chain transformation journey, We are now at a point where we can begin to fully leverage the new go to market model to operationalize distribution and transportation benefits, improve customer service, better enable omni channel solutions and drive broad based operational excellence across the organization. Project Ovid was an integral step in demonstrating the organization's readiness and willingness to undertake a significant change agenda and commit to a 1 Newell culture. So we are building on this momentum as part of Project Phoenix to further optimize the company's operations by Centralizing manufacturing into a supply chain center of excellence. This will for the first time allow us to create and leverage manufacturing scale and turn it into Competitive advantage. While this will not materialize overnight, we do believe that a unified global supply chain organization will drive significant efficiencies, Improve our supply chain resiliency, further enhance the company's technical capabilities, strengthen our culture of customer connection and collaboration, and position us to become a best in class scaled general merchandise supplier to our retail partners.

Speaker 4

Now let's move on to 4th quarter results, which were largely consistent with the outlook we provided in October and our focus on optimizing cash flow yielded strong Net sales for the Q4 declined 18.5 percent year over year to $2,300,000,000 due to a 9.4% decrease in core Sales as well as the impact of the divestiture of the CHS business at the end of Q1, unfavorable foreign exchange and certain category and retail store exits. Top line trends remain challenged due to inventory reductions at retail as well as softer consumer demand for general merchandise categories. We expect these dynamics to persist in the near term. Normalized gross margin contracted 360 basis points versus last year to 26.6% As the impact of reduced fixed cost absorption, unfavorable foreign exchange and inflation more than offset the tailwind from pricing and fuel productivity savings. Before moving off of gross margin, I should mention that during the Q4, we elected to change Newell's method of accounting For certain inventory in the U.

Speaker 4

S. From LIFO to FIFO to conform the company's entire inventory to a single method and simplify the company's inventory accounting. Therefore, the financial statements in today's release and the numbers we are referencing reflect the impact of this accounting change to FIFO both in the current and prior year periods, which have been retroactively adjusted. For Q4 specifically, there was a $4,000,000 increase to cost of goods sold relative to what it would have been under the prior method. Normalized operating margin declined 510 basis points versus last to 4.9%, reflecting gross margin pressure and the impact of top line deleveraging on SG and A costs.

Speaker 4

Net interest expense increased to $64,000,000 from $59,000,000 in the year ago period. The normalized tax benefit was $5,000,000 as compared to a $38,000,000 expense last year, with the difference largely driven by an increase in discrete tax benefits. For the quarter, normalized diluted earnings per share were $0.16 as compared to $0.42 last year. During the Q4, Newell's cash flow performance improved Considerably and it began to reflect the actions we took in 2022 to right size our supply and demand plans. The business generated operating cash flow of $295,000,000 in Q4 as inventory declined by more than $400,000,000 relative Q3.

Speaker 4

Working capital was a source of cash in Q4 despite a meaningful drag from payables, which have been negatively impacted by Timing of our pullback on the supply plan. Although the company ended 2022 with an elevated level of working capital and operating cash outflow Of $272,000,000 Q4 cash results in combination with our proactive pullback in the supply plan Give us confidence that operating cash flow will bounce back significantly in 2023. Despite the strong Snap back in cash flow, we ended 2022 with a leverage ratio of 4.5 times as we took on short term debt to navigate through this tough environment. While we expect the leverage ratio to be pressured in the near term, we remain laser on strengthening the company's balance sheet in the years ahead. Note that effective Q1, we are implementing a new operating model I'm consolidating our previous 5 operating segments into 3.

Speaker 4

Therefore, and in the interest of time, I'm going to dispense with the usual high level segment sales commentary for two reasons. First, you can easily find these numbers in the tables attached to our press release. And second, I'm sure everyone's interested to hear our comments about Fiscal 2023. Taking a step back, 2022 was clearly a challenging year for Newell, But we acted quickly and decisively to mitigate the impact of the external headwinds and ensure we are strategically investing in core capabilities that position Newell for success over the long term. In 2023, we've identified 5 major priorities to stabilize Newell's financial performance while driving foundational improvement, so we can return the company to sustainable and profitable growth as macros improve.

Speaker 4

1st, strengthen cash flow and balance sheet by continuing to right size inventories, carefully managing the forecasting process And staying close to the evolving consumer and customer trends, so we can remain agile in planning. 2nd, Drive gross margin improvement by accelerating fuel productivity savings, further advancing our automation initiatives, operationalizing Project Ovid distribution and transportation benefits, pricing internationally for currency and instilling greater financial discipline surrounding new product innovation. 3rd, drive overhead savings through Project Phoenix and tight spending controls to offset the impact of incentive compensation reset to normal levels and wage inflation. 4th, continue SKU count reduction progress and initiate a bottom up white sheet SKU approach to enable the next phase of reduction. And 5th, operationalize the new company structure to enable faster transformation progress.

Speaker 4

Despite taking these proactive and decisive actions to strengthening the company's performance, we expect the external landscape to remain challenging in 2023. The high level of uncertainty on the macro front has influenced our modeling assumptions as follows. We are assuming consumers disposable Spending power will be under pressure due to inflation in food, housing and energy with consumers in Europe feeling greater stress than in the U. S. We also expect consumer demand for general merchandise categories to remain soft due both to macroeconomic environment And normalization of home and outdoor categories from peak pandemic demand levels.

Speaker 4

Retailers are likely to continue reducing open to buy dollars in general merchandise categories. Foreign exchange is expected to remain a headwind for the year. We expect the supply chain pressures to continue to ease And for inflationary pressure to moderate to low single digits of COGS, down from high single digits in 2022 As commodity and transportation prices continue to move off their peak levels. Since we expect many of the headwinds the company experienced in the second half 22 to persist in 2023, we are maintaining a prudent bias when setting our demand and supply plans To ensure a heightened focus on cash flow generation, working capital improvement and optimization of Newell's cost structure. Within this context, our 2023 financial outlook contemplates net sales of $8,400,000,000 to $8,600,000,000 With core sales declining 6% to 8%.

Speaker 4

We're assuming nearly a 3% headwind from foreign exchange, Certain category and Yankee Campbell store exits and the sale of the CH and S business, which closed at the end of Q1 last year. Normalized operating margin is expected to be flat to down 50 basis points versus last year to 9.6% to 10.1% As stronger gross margins are offset by overheads, we expect to drive above average productivity savings, which in combination with carryover pricing and new pricing outside the U. S. Should more than offset the impact from inflation. We're planning to maintain tight spending controls and are assuming that Project Phoenix Unlocks about $140,000,000 to $160,000,000 of pretax savings this year.

Speaker 4

However, we expect these benefits To be fully offset in dollar terms by incentive compensation reset, wage inflation and select capability investments. We are forecasting normalized earnings per share of $0.95 to $1.08 as we expect a significant year over year increase And the interest expense and tax rate, we are assuming a return to a more normalized tax rate in the high teens range As compared to 2.5% in 2022. At the midpoint of the range, we are assuming that normalized earnings per share declined low double digits We expect a significant bounce back on cash flow in 2023 From timing of inventory purchases and payables, with free cash flow productivity well ahead of 100% at the midpoint of our guidance range, We're forecasting operating cash flow in the $700,000,000 to $900,000,000 range, including about $95,000,000 to $120,000,000 in cash Our first quarter outlook assumes the following: net sales of $1,790,000,000 to $1,840,000,000 Including a core sales decline of 16% to 18% and a 7% headwind from the sale of the CH and S business on March 31, 2022, Foreign exchange and certain category Yankee Candle store exits. We are forecasting normalized operating margin of 3.0 percent to 3.5 percent, Significantly below 10.6% last year due to fixed cost deleveraging, inflation and foreign exchange pressure.

Speaker 4

We expect a normalized loss per share of 0 point Quarter of the year from a seasonality perspective reflects significant margin pressure, a step up in interest expense and a modest tax benefit. We clearly expect a much tougher first half of the year relative to the back half as the business cycles more challenging top line comparisons With headwinds from currency and inflation carryover being more front half weighted, whereas benefits from Project Phoenix are expected to be more back half loaded. We're also assuming that retailer inventory reductions and constrained spending on discretionary products will persist through the first half of the year. As such, we expect core sales growth to be stronger in the second half of the year versus the first half. We are taking decisive actions across All areas that are within our control to successfully navigate through this difficult macro backdrop, while building and investing in core capabilities, which we believe will position the company for a return to sustainable and profitable growth.

Speaker 4

Operator, let's now open up for Q and A.

Operator

Thank you. And our first question comes from the line of Bill Chappell with Chrous. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Good morning.

Speaker 4

Good morning, Bill. Good morning, Bill.

Speaker 5

And congratulations to everyone. First kind of question on Project Phoenix. Obviously, over the years, even before your 2 tenures, there have been a lot of projects, a lot of consolidation Of divisions in from 5 to 3 and 3 to 5 and what have you, how is this different? I mean, what do you see that the cost savings that you haven't already I've gotten from the prior projects that really gets you confident about how this makes a big change. Like I said, since it's been done, it seems attempted multiple times before in the past decade.

Speaker 2

So, Bill, I think let me kick that off. Look, first, it was really the idea of germinated When we were looking at the food business and appliance business and the customers and the merchants Are the same and we were not approaching it on an integrated basis. The consumer is the same because they have a side in the kitchen. And so as we started thinking about it and this whole notion of consumer life moments and occasions And really it was driven from a consumer and customer standpoint saying, hey, where do these reside and how do you group the businesses? So as you know, Mule sort of veered a bit from centralization to decentralization over times.

Speaker 2

But for us, we have taken in the last 3 years a more holistic approach of heading the businesses for front facing And we were unifying in the back to leverage scale. This is just the next evolution of that. And so We said, hey, it really makes sense. Candles are in the home. COVID also taught us that home is the hub.

Speaker 2

So that made sense then to bring those businesses. The commercial piece was really it shares the Rubbermaid brand. And so he said, let's bring that together. The key was this has helped us because we had different CFOs and HR for each of the businesses. This has helped us reduce it, create bigger jobs for people, improve the span of control, etcetera.

Speaker 2

2nd, I think this is very historic about doing international as integrated 1 Newell as a whole because there's been a lot of fragmentation. So there's one new market approach, go to market approach, I think is going to be quite amazing. I don't think we've ever Unified supply chain globally. And I think that we just feel that will allow for better decisions on Near shoring, our pace, do you source, do you manufacture, taking real leverage of our total footprint Globally, which we think long term will help the gross margins. So when you look at those fronts, and then there's a lot of I think as a company, because these were all separate companies in the past, one of the keys is standardizing processes, which we did in orbit, We've learned a lot from that and then getting to common measurement systems.

Speaker 2

So I just think it will create a more efficient company. And so this was not just a, hey, let's take cost out for the sake of cost out. It was very strategic in how we went about it.

Speaker 5

Okay. I'll follow-up on that. The second question is just In terms of consumer demand, trying to understand if there are areas where you're seeing meaningful Pullback from consumers due to recessionary environment or if you're just expecting that to happen as we move through the year and if The former, where are you seeing the biggest pressure points?

Speaker 2

I think, well, two points. 1, I would just reiterate. 1, we are About 2019 from the pandemic levels overall. So that's encouraging the stack growth 2 years is 9%. But having said that, Clearly, there are a couple of phenomenon.

Speaker 2

One is due to the stimulus that occurred as well as the pandemic On certain businesses and categories have a forward acceleration from a consumer standpoint. For instance appliances is probably the prime candidate. Then you had the phenomenon of light candles during COVID where people were burning a lot. And you brought in a lot of low income consumers that now without the stimulus have left the fold. So you are seeing Even before the recession, there are a couple of impacts, which are the retailers destocking, consumer Form an acceleration that are current in different categories.

Speaker 2

So I think when you take a look into that, those are the things that we're seeing those Trends persisting in the first half.

Speaker 5

Great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Thank

Speaker 2

you. Thank you.

Operator

One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from Olivia Tong with Raymond James. Your line is now open.

Speaker 6

Great. Thank you. I want to talk about your sales expectations and what's embedded in your core revenue outlook

Speaker 1

For this fiscal year, because we assume

Speaker 6

that Q2 is going to see similar pressure as Q1, then it would imply sort of a low single digit core sales growth in the second half at the midpoint. So can you provide some color on your views on trends as you begin to lap the destocking in the second half of the year? And what's your full year outlook reflects in terms of Your view on shelf space or retailer losses and what you think the underlying category growth is as you exit this period of destocking?

Speaker 4

Yes. Thanks, Olivia. I'll take that. So I think our as I mentioned in the prepared remarks on our revenue outlook, There's really 3 or 4 trends that are going on that inform our outlook. One is Normalization of categories from peak COVID levels and that's particularly impacting the home and the outdoor businesses, Where we're continuing to see sort of a return to pre pandemic category levels.

Speaker 4

2nd is Consumer pressure on discretionary categories because of inflation in food and housing, which is taking a greater share of consumer wallets. 3rd is the retailer destocking impact. And then finally, we've seen over the last 2 years almost 20% input cost inflation and we've largely priced for that as we've talked, but that also is putting Sure, on categories from a volume standpoint. If you look at the trend during the year, we're Guiding for core sales growth of minus 16% to 18% in Q1, we're not going to give quarterly guidance, but I don't think it's a fair assumption to say that we expect that to continue in Q2. I do think that Q1 is uniquely negative because of the comparison.

Speaker 4

If you look at the 2 year stack on Q1, It's almost 27% or 28% that we're comping. So it is the toughest comp. As we mentioned in the remarks, we do expect The back half to be better than the front half, but I don't think it's the right assumption to think that Q2 is going to be down as much as Q1.

Speaker 6

Got it. And then, Chris, congrats first. I wanted to get your view in terms of potential for a strategic review as you move into the CEO position, whether you think there is another look at The categories you're in, the brands you have, how you think about that for the longer term?

Speaker 4

Sure. Yes, I think the way I'm thinking about that is, I think that we put the turnaround place and Turnaround plan in place about 3 or 4 years ago. And I think as we've talked, we've made significant progress on that. But the macro environment is different today than it was then. And because of the progress that we've made, I think that now is an opportune time To relook at the company's strategy going forward.

Speaker 4

And so I intend to do that with the leadership team. I don't expect that we're going to have a revolution in the strategy, but I think it's likely that we will evolve the strategy. But I want to take the time to confer with the leadership team and also Understand sort of the current environment. I expect that will take us several months to get through, And we'll be ready to share something as soon as we get through that process.

Operator

Understood. Thank you. Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from Peter Grom with UBS.

Operator

Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Hey, good morning, everyone. And Robbie, Chris, Mark, congrats to you all. Maybe just one quick housekeeping item. Does the top line impact embed any This is the top line outlook. And Ben, any potential impact from what's going on at one of your largest retail partners that's I've been in the news quite a bit recently.

Speaker 7

And then I guess just maybe a bigger picture, taking a step back, the business has changed I've been over the past few years, but kind of taking the guidance into consideration, sales are really retrenching here. And Chris, you mentioned normalization and kind of consumer pressures, but just kind of bringing it back to the long term Core sales target of low single digits. I mean, is there something you've learned over the past year, 18 months or so that kind of Changes your confidence in your ability to deliver on that target kind of longer term as we kind of get through this period of disruption. Thanks.

Speaker 2

I'll just do the first one very quickly. The answer is no. And in terms of any particular Retailers issues affecting us. So Chris?

Speaker 4

Yes. Maybe just to build on Ravi's answer on the first one. I think the retailer you're talking about is likely Bed Bath and Beyond. They represent less than 2% of the company's revenue. And we are working very collaboratively with them in terms of kind of a win win go forward partnership.

Speaker 4

I'll leave it at there, but it is not a significant part of the company's business. On the long term algorithm, I don't think there's anything that causes us to Change the goal in the Evergreen model of getting to long or getting to low single digit consistent sustainable core sales growth. And so we are still committed to that as our evergreen top line target. Obviously, we've been impacted by a lot of the trends that we've talked about, which has us off of that for this year. But we very much are working hard to get back there as quickly as we possibly can.

Speaker 2

I think the one thing I'd add just sort of when you look back, Look, these last three and a half years, we've had so many things, right? We've had the pandemic, then supply constraints, Inflation, foreign exchange, war of Ukraine, etcetera. So to me, The holy grail is 2019 as the base year. And the fact that in 2022, we were still up Versus 2019 and the stack growth was 9%. Should really our brands remain strong.

Speaker 2

I know Chris and the team Really going to take it to the next level. So I think once the economy turns, I do feel that the Evergreen model Chris and I, as far as it's still intact.

Speaker 7

Great. Thank you so much. And then just this might be a hard question to answer just given the uncertainty Of the current environment, but Chris, we've kind of seen when new CEOs come in, the initial outlook tends to be Somewhat conservative to set the team up for success. And so I guess, how would you characterize your confidence In this guidance today, do you feel like you've embedded in Netflix should things deteriorate further from here either from a consumer demand perspective or Inflation or FX, just kind of the confidence that this is kind of the worst it can kind of get and things could get better, there could be upside

Speaker 4

Yes. I think, I'll just give you sort of a high level Conceptual answer to that, which is we tried to reflect in the guidance everything we knew about the current environment. We tried to be realistic in what we know based on the go forward tailwinds and headwinds for the business this year. And we did want to take a prudent bias on the core sales because our focus this year is to get cash flow back. And the best way to get cash flow back is not to overbuild inventory.

Speaker 4

And we wanted to manage Our supply and demand plan in a way that ensured that we had an above average cash flow year. We are, as we mentioned in the prepared remarks, Seeing significant headwinds in terms of the tax rate, which is going from 2.5% to a high teens rate, which is our Kind of long term normalized operating rate. We are seeing interest expense probably is going to be up about $45,000,000 this year versus last year. And we've got the headwinds as we mentioned of incentive comp reset and foreign exchange in addition to the Core sales deleveraging. On the flip side, we feel very good about Ovid and the benefits that Ovid is going to generate.

Speaker 4

We've built our productivity our gross productivity assumptions are well above 4% of cost for this Cost of goods sold for this year, so it's a step up in gross productivity that's embedded in our guidance because of Ovid, because of the fuel productivity program and automation. And we've embedded in as we talked the Phoenix overhead savings and international pricing along with carryover pricing. And so I feel good about sort of where we are based on what we know today.

Speaker 7

Great. Thanks so much and congrats to all again.

Operator

Thank you. Our next Question comes from Kevin Grundy with Jefferies. Your line is now open.

Speaker 8

Great. Thanks. Good morning, everyone. And just to echo my congratulations As well. And I know in a difficult environment like this, it may not seem that way, but I think a lot of folks on this call that have followed the company for a while are certainly in a better place Then it was post the Jard merger, so congrats on that.

Speaker 8

Question on Project Phoenix to start, if we could. It seems like another step along with Avid is to drive efficiencies and reduce complexities in the organization, which was inherently more complex, in many cases, Perhaps too decentralized coming out of Jarden merger, but at the same time, it's a lot of change in what's a very dynamic and challenging environment. Can you just comment on how the organization is handling all this change and why we should not be worried about potential risk to result at least in the near term? And then I have a follow-up. Thanks.

Speaker 2

Okay. Thank you so much. Look, that's a great question. And I would say we absolutely could not have done this 3 years ago. And you may recall, when Chris and I started here, our engagement scores were about 37 to 45.

Speaker 2

We went up to 75 world class norms, much consultants told us that take us 10 years. We got there in 2 years, and we have maintained that last year when we did it in November. So the organization's culture It's a competitive advantage and very strong, but they could absorb it and this whole idea of 1 Mule is imbued in their employees. And the way we handled it, there was meticulous planning. We started the Pfenex idea and process.

Speaker 2

So we started working on it through July and brought in layers of people systematically over time to give them ownership. Our communication has truly been outstanding to make sure people understood why we were doing it. And finally, The people that we had to exit, we treated them with enormous dignity and respect. And so much so, if you go back to LinkedIn and take a look, Even those who exited are cheering for Newell and want Newell to succeed. So I think That culture and it's been very strong.

Speaker 2

People understand why we need to do this. And I think it's a journey. Look, Ovid was the great test To see whether we could centralize distribution, and that was very successful. That gave us the courage To centralize manufacturing, to put sales all under our Chief Customer Officer. So I think so far the reaction of the organization Has been actually very positive.

Speaker 2

We've been as concerned about the people left behind to make sure they're embracing this. The other part of it has been Because of our previous history, we've also made sure there's role clarity, reduced duplication. So I think people are feeling even more empowered. So I'd say the chances of this succeeding are very high.

Speaker 8

Excellent. Thank you for that, Robbie. Chris, probably for you just on margins, Just to kind of step back and make sure that we're not missing the forest for the trees here. Currently, you're dealing with a lot In terms of volume deleverage, FX, cost, etcetera, but longer term sort of thinking it with margins versus your original benchmarks. But since then, You have Project Fuel, we have Avid, now you have Project Phoenix.

Speaker 8

I think the commentary has been that there's no reason this cannot be a 17% to 18% EBITDA Margin business longer term as we sort of look past this volume deleverage and so forth as we come out of the cycle. Is that still the view? Is that where investors should Sort of anchor longer term expectations or is it potentially even superior to that now just given some of the programs that you've announced? And then I'll pass it on. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Yes. I think that there's no question that we are shooting for a much higher margin profile in this business. I think we have the opportunity to drive that over time versus where we are today. So I think that sort of A mid to high teens EBITDA or EBIT margin is very much in our long term sites as we've talked. When we did the original benchmarking, we thought that gross margin we ought to be targeting to get the company's gross margin up to 37% to 38 We've taken a series of backward steps for a variety of reasons associated with Fixed cost deleveraging, inflation, etcetera.

Speaker 4

But I think our guidance this year is for gross margin to turn and start to move positive. And I think that trend, we are very focused on driving that. And then we continue to believe that Although we may have some deleveraging effect this year, we believe that getting our overhead down towards that 16% 15%, 16% level is the right thing as well. So I think that that can yield Margins that are much stronger than where we are today and I think a lot of that continues to be in our control. Although we are subject, as we've seen in the short term, to the macro trends, which means it's not going to be a straight line, as I've said many times before.

Operator

Thank you. And our next question comes from Andrea Teixeira with JPMorgan, your line is now open.

Speaker 9

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and congrats to all. I think I can speak to most of the ones on this call that I think you sounded you did not sound as negative About the path ahead when you announced the 3Q earnings and later with Project Phoenix, can you help us bridge a little bit of what's Gone worse since November December, perhaps the consumer or the retailers that took a more conservative step And also on a clarification on the commentary about the higher management compensation in 2023, I guess with results materially lower in the year, how can compensation normalize the rate this year? I think you're adjusting Probably adjusting out some of the external factors within the compensation metrics. I just want to see if we can bridge that to the commentary that you gave.

Speaker 9

Despite those savings in the Project Phoenix, you pretty much will offset everything with labor inflation and management of the company. If you can bridge Those components, that would be super helpful. Thank

Speaker 2

you. Let me answer your final the last question first very quickly. Essentially, this year, look, our compensation is performance driven and variable To the great part. And there's an LTI component as well. So we really because we didn't make our numbers, Obviously, the STI component was very low for 2022 and it also affected our LCI.

Speaker 2

So when we look at 2023, we start with the assumption that it will be normalized and you assume the target numbers. So that was a big, big jump, plus the wage inflation, and that is why we said the Pfenex was offsetting that.

Speaker 4

Okay. Relative to the change perhaps in what we're seeing From November, I don't think we've I think this is the first time we're giving guidance for this year. And The reason why we give guidance for the first time on this call is because we want to give guidance when we have clearer visibility on the macros. And there are It is a difficult macro environment from a forecasting standpoint because there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of variability in the range. I think as we've seen the macro trends continuing over the last few months as we saw where Q4 came in, As we saw how we started off in January and as we got more visibility to the forecasting, We felt like that helped inform our top line guidance on core sales growth for this year.

Speaker 4

I think many of the comments that we made are still applicable. We do expect this year to be a significantly above average Gross productivity year as a result of benefits from the Ovid program, fuel productivity automation. And as a result, we're expecting gross margin to be up this year. I think the piece that's offsetting that from a margin rate is really the overhead rate and that's really because of the top line deleverage more than anything else. Our overhead costs in total are relatively flat in dollar terms as we mentioned because of The wage inflation, the incentive comp and select capability investments that we're making, which are offsetting the Phoenix savings.

Speaker 4

So And then obviously, the interest expense has moved with as the Fed has raised rates and rates on short term Borrowing has gone up. And from a tax rate standpoint, we're planning for sort of a full operational tax rate as I mentioned before.

Speaker 2

Okay. Can I just add something? Look, what we've had the full year of 2022 to look at what happened. And really, they're Being a bit repetitive, but the forces of both retailer, destocking, consumer forward acceleration, All that and then an impending or imminent recession, when you look at all of that, I think it's really a consumer environment, Which has softened. So I think we're just being prudent about that.

Speaker 2

Our brands inherently are we're continuing to strengthen our brands. So I would just look at that and very important, Chris, has really been very clear that the major focus for 2023 is to get that cash flow back.

Operator

Thank you. And our last question will come from the line of Lauren Lieberman with Barclays. Your line is now open.

Speaker 10

Great, thanks. Good morning, everyone. And Mark, hi, again, it's been years. Just wanted to ask one quick question was when you're Just looking at the outlook for this year, how you're thinking about still like lingering destocking activity versus Consumption, if you talked about it earlier in the call, I apologize I missed it, but clarity on that would be great, if possible.

Speaker 4

Yes. It's a good question, Lauren. And I would say that we do expect some lingering retailer destocking. Largely, we expect that to be complete in the first half of the year. And so clearly, if you look at The Q1 guidance where we're guiding core sales down 16% to 18%, we are not seeing our Underlying POS trends down that much and part of the difference there is retailer destocking.

Speaker 4

I would say that The retailers made significant progress on destocking from our view and what we're hearing in the back half of last year, But we don't believe that it's fully over yet. We do expect from what we're hearing that The retailer destocking will largely be complete by the first half of the year. Although, hard to predict entirely, but That's what we're planning for and that's what we're hearing from the major retailers that we interact with today. Which is why we think second half

Speaker 2

will be slightly better than the first half.

Speaker 10

Okay, great. Thanks so much.

Operator

Thank you.

Speaker 4

All right.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. A replay of today's call will be available later today on the company's website at ir. Newellbrands.com. You may now disconnect.

Operator

Have a great day.

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