NASDAQ:AKBA Akebia Therapeutics Q3 2023 Earnings Report $2.34 -0.11 (-4.49%) Closing price 05/5/2025 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$2.36 +0.02 (+0.68%) As of 04:42 AM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast Akebia Therapeutics EPS ResultsActual EPS-$0.08Consensus EPS -$0.09Beat/MissBeat by +$0.01One Year Ago EPS-$0.28Akebia Therapeutics Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$42.05 millionExpected Revenue$48.19 millionBeat/MissMissed by -$6.14 millionYoY Revenue GrowthN/AAkebia Therapeutics Announcement DetailsQuarterQ3 2023Date11/8/2023TimeQ3 2023 Earnings ReleaseConference Call DateWednesday, November 8, 2023Conference Call Time8:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsAkebia Therapeutics' Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 8, 2025, with a conference call scheduled at 8:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Q1 2025 Earnings ReportConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by Akebia Therapeutics Q3 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrNovember 8, 2023 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Akebia Therapeutics Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. And I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Ms. Operator00:00:35Mercedes Carrasco. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:39Thank you. Thank you, and welcome to Akebia's 3rd quarter 2023 financial results and business updates conference call. Please note that a press release was issued earlier today, Wednesday, November 8, detailing our Q3 financial results, and that release is available on the Investors section of our website. For your convenience, a replay of today's call will also be available on our website after we conclude. Joining me for today's call, we have John Butler, Chief Executive Officer and Ellen Snow, Chief Financial Officer. Speaker 100:01:14I'd like to remind everyone that this call includes forward looking statements. Each forward looking statement on this call is subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these statements. Additional information describing these risks is included in the financial results press release that we issued on November 8, as well as in the Risk Factors and Management Discussion and Analysis section of our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. The forward looking statements on this call speak only as of the original date of this Call and except as required by law, we do not undertake any obligation to update or revise any of these statements. With that, I'd like to introduce our CEO, John Butler. Speaker 100:02:04John? Speaker 200:02:05Thanks, Mercedes. For those who've been following our story over the past Couple of years and have witnessed all of our team's efforts. You know it gives me great pleasure to talk to you about Akebia's future today with an extremely important and hard fought catalyst in our sites. As we've reported, the FDA set a user fee goal date or PDUFA date of March 27, 2024, pravadadustat, our oral HIFPH inhibitor to treat anemia due to chronic kidney disease or CKD in patients on dialysis. That's less than 5 months away. Speaker 200:02:42Our team has been working diligently towards the U. S. Approval for vadadustat. We completed a formal dispute process and engaged with the FDA during an end of dispute Type A meeting. We then resubmitted to our NDA for vadadustat in September. Speaker 200:02:57Our resubmission included post marketing safety data from tens of thousands of patients in Japan Rivadadustat is approved and has been on the market for more than 3 years. Based on the new data in the resubmission, the FDA assigned a 6 month review cycle in line with our prior expectations. Today, they are actively engaged in the review. I just returned from the American Society of Nephrology Kidney Week last week. I was excited to see how much innovation is happening for patients with kidney disease, including multiple products introduced since the meeting last year. Speaker 200:03:34I had the pleasure of having many conversations with key medical experts, And I can say unequivocally that these physicians are very excited about the role vadadustat and HIF can play in the treatment of patients with CKD. They were very happy to share thoughts on where the greatest patient need exists as well as areas for future research. For our part, we're confident in our path forward and continue to believe in the benefit vadadustat can deliver to patients. If approved, we're eager to bring vadadustat to market in the U. S. Speaker 200:04:05As an alternative oral treatment to deliver on our commitment to patients, our partners and the broader kidney community. Before I speak to the potential commercial opportunity for vadadustat in the U. S, I want to again applaud our regulatory team for their productive interactions with the FDA over the past year and timely completion of the resubmission. I also want to thank our partner Mitsubishi Tanabe Pharma Corporation or MTPC who markets vadadustat in Japan and was instrumental in collecting the safety data included in the resubmission as part of their typical post marketing vigilance in Japan. Now with the regulatory resubmission in our rearview mirror, we're now shifting our focus to the vadadustat launch phase that we expect next year if vadadustat is approved. Speaker 200:04:56In the international markets, vadadustat has approved in 36 countries. Since our last call, vadadustat has been approved in Australia and Taiwan. Work is underway by our partner, Badisi, to bring VASCO vadadustat to market in Europe in 2024, which would generate future royalties and potential milestones for Akebia. That said, a U. S. Speaker 200:05:17Launch of vadadustat would represent our most significant commercial opportunity. With approval, we have the potential target in approximately $1,000,000,000 market based on estimates that approximately 88% of the nearly 550,000 patients on dialysis would be treated with an erythropoiesis stimulating agent or ESA for anemia. These are the injectables that are the standard of care. It's important to highlight that we are already well prepared for a potential launch and have identified important tailwinds we believe will contribute to our success. First, we have our commercial product supply ready to go awaiting final label post potential approval. Speaker 200:05:592nd, we also have an experienced commercial sales organization actively calling on dialysis centers. We believe there is approximately a 96% overlap between Auryxia prescribers and potential vadadustat prescribers. Importantly, we'll also benefit from our partnership with CSL vifor, which enables potential access to 60% of the treatment centers through its collaboration with Fresenius Medical Care and other small and medium sized providers. While we do expect to invest appropriately in the vadadustat launch to reflect the significant opportunity, based on our initial preparedness from 2022 and our existing infrastructure, we expect that investment in 2024 to be incremental compared to our current OpEx. It's critical to also understand the unique payment landscape in dialysis. Speaker 200:06:49Medications used to treat most dialysis patients in the U. S. Are reimbursed as part of a bundle payment made to providers. Included in the bundle payment are funds for an ESA treatment used to manage anemia. To promote innovative drug use for patients in that prospective payment system, CMS implemented a transitional add on payment adjustment or TDAPA. Speaker 200:07:12For 2 years post TDAPA designation, the TDAPA payment would cover the cost of vadadustat if a physician prescribed their product. Their overall bundled payment does not change. Now while we continue to work on post TDAPA payment policy, It's important to recognize that today almost 90% of dialysis patients are treated for anemia and there are significant dollars in the current bundle payment for the treatment of anemia. We expect to have vadadustat commercially available quickly following a potential approval, but expect minimal initial revenue to be generated in those 1st months. After the 6 month TDAPA application process Anticipated to be complete by October of 'twenty four, we anticipate the product would be reimbursed and widely available and accessible to patients. Speaker 200:08:04As I mentioned earlier, we will have a strong tailwind from our CSL Vifor relationship, which will provide Akibiu with potential up to 60% of the dialysis market through CSL V Force collaboration with Fresenius Kidney Care and several small to midsized providers with whom they contract. Akebia will receive 2 thirds of the profit associated with Vadadustat sales in those centers, net of certain pre specified costs, and Vifor will keep 1 third of the profits. Akibio will retain 100% of the economics in markets not covered by our contract, predominantly any sales to DaVita. Now we're also fortunate to be supported through this launch by the robust cash flows from Auryxia. Today, we reported Auryxia net product revenue of $40,100,000 in the 3rd quarter. Speaker 200:08:55We've guided to $170,000,000 to $175,000,000 net Product revenue for the year and I expect will come in around $170,000,000 We expect Auryxia revenue to grow in 2024 as we exit unfavorable payer contracts, incrementally expand our commercial and medical footprint and gain broader access to providers from their interest in learning about vadadustat if it's approved. Lastly, we were able to delay the cash payments associated with our Pharmakon debt service until October of 2024, which provides us with additional flexibility to invest in the launch of vadadustat as well as other growth opportunities for the company. And to provide more information on our revenue and other financials, I'd now like to turn the call over to Ellen Snow, our Chief Financial Officer. Ellen? Speaker 300:09:48Good morning, everyone. Our priority continues to be focused on strengthening our balance sheet as we enter a potential launch year, marked this quarter by a favorable loan amendment, which strengthened our cash position for 2024. The Pharmacon loan amendment extends the maturity date of our loan to March of 2025 from November 2024 and defers Akebia's quarterly principal payments until October 31, 2024, at which time the company will begin making monthly principal payments through the date of maturity. The favorable modification to payment terms enables us to strategically invest in the vadadustat launch activities, while also continuing to maximize Auryxia revenue for the remainder of the year and into 2024. Our cash and cash equivalents and restricted cash as of September 30, 2023 totaled $48,200,000 which with cash from operations we expect to fund planned operations for at least the next 12 months. Speaker 300:10:50Contributing to our cash position, total revenues were $42,000,000 for the Q3 of 2023. Net product revenues from sale of Auryxia were $40,100,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $42,000,000 for the Q3 2022. The decrease is primarily due to a reduction in volume and the impact of shifting payer mix, partially caused by Contracting dynamics and a decline in the phosphate binder market. The decline was partially offset by price increases in January of 2023 July of While our quarterly revenue was down from last quarter and compared to the Q3 of 2022, This is a similar trend to what we saw last year and we'll still expect strong 4th quarter. And thus, as John mentioned, we believe Thea net product revenue will be around $170,000,000 for the full 2023. Speaker 300:11:46We are committed to both maximizing our current business opportunities and pursuing growth initiatives to create value for our shareholders. While Auryxia is now a mature brand nearing loss of exclusivity in March of 2025, We expect relatively stable volume next year, while benefiting from higher pricing due to exiting certain payer contracts over the next year. In addition, we continue to work to understand the potential impact and opportunity we could realize when phosphate binders enter the bundle in 2025. As we look to our cost structure, we continue to focus on cost containment. Cost of goods sold or COGS was 18 dollars 1,000,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $38,300,000 for the Q3 of 2022. Speaker 300:12:33COGS reflects the cost of Auryxia, including non cash intangible amortization charge of $9,000,000 per quarter through the Q4 of 2024 and 3rd party royalties. The decrease was primarily due to a non cash charge related to the excess purchase commitments recorded in 2022 and a reduction in inventory write downs and lower volume of sales resulting and reduced product costs for 2023. R and D expenses were $13,300,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $28,000,000 for the Q3 of 2022. The decrease was primarily due to a reduction in spending on vadadustat development, including clinical trial and curtailment of outsourced contract services. SG and A expenses were $22,700,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $31,900,000 for the Q3 of 2022, primarily as a result of the reduction in headcount related costs, set by some onetime non recurring expenses. Speaker 300:13:45Net loss was $14,500,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to a net loss of $54,100,000 for the Q3 of 2022. We continue to find ways of operating more efficiently, placing an increased scrutiny on Allair's operating expenses. We are deliberate about managing expenses in our efforts to further extend our cash runway until the potential launch of vadadustat here in the U. S. Revenue from Auryxia continues to provide cash for operations, and we are excited that we have a PDUFA date of March 27, 2024. Speaker 300:14:21The entire leadership team remains energized and focused on delivering an alternative oral treatment to patients if approved by the FDA. With that, we will now open the call for questions. Operator? Operator00:14:40Thank Our first question will come from Allison Braetzell of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Pardon me, Alison Braczel, your line is open. You may ask your question. Speaker 200:15:27Chris, why don't we move to the next question. We'll come back to Ali. Operator00:15:30Okay. Thank you. One moment please. One moment please for our next question. The next question will come from Julian Harrison of BTIG. Operator00:15:45Your line is open. Speaker 400:15:48Hi, congrats on the recent progress and thank you for taking my questions. First, both vadadustat and dapradustat have been on the market In Japan for several years now. So I guess I'm curious if there's anything from the experience there that informs you about how the 2 drugs should coexist in the U. S. Going forward? Speaker 400:16:05And then it sounds like the cross selling opportunity between Auryxia and potential Vadadustat prescribers is likely significant. So I was just wondering if you could talk more about how you plan Speaker 200:16:19Julien, thanks for your question. So we often get asked about the And it's tough To really point to much because it's such a different market, for one thing, of course, the product is available for dialysis patients and non dialysis patients. For another, there are I think it's 5 HIF PHIs that are available on the market in Japan. So you have a very different kind of commercial dynamic there as well. But what we have seen is Kind of steady adoption of the HIF PHIs into the market. Speaker 200:17:02So as we would expect to see with a new class. It's taken some time for it to It's going to move into normal use, but I think we're seeing that become more and more common now across Japan. Of course, when there's 5 companies Promoting the product, you do have a lot more kind of share of voice across that class. But it's just again, as we said, we've always wanted the non dialysis market opportunity as well, right? And that is where You're seeing more of the use and more of the focus from all of the companies, but you're seeing dialysis adoption as well. Speaker 200:17:47And then your second question was about the overlap. And I mean this is you can go back to 2018 when we We closed the transaction with Keryx and created a commercial company in Akebia. It was With the expressed desire to pick up that leverage, right, the idea that we have this commercial organization in place That's already calling on nephrologists in dialysis centers, has deep relationships with them. Of Of course, we didn't hope for this 2 year delay on when we'd be able to take advantage of that leverage, but we think that's extraordinarily important. We have A very experienced sales organization. Speaker 200:18:31As I said, I think we'll need to incrementally increase that group, but we'll do that Quickly and Auryxia will benefit from that as much as vadadustat will. But when you look at any of your Presence at ASN or any other kind of marketing opportunity, you basically get the leverage of having 2 products in the market. And I think it's important also and I kind of referenced this in my prepared remarks that when Vadadustat is approved, assuming Vadadustat approved, physicians will be very interested in talking to reps about that new product. Remember Auryxia is an 8 or 9 year old product. It's not quite as easy to get access to physicians. Speaker 200:19:20With that access, They obviously have the opportunity to talk about Auryxia as well. And in my past, I've seen significant organic growth from the more mature product When you have the opportunity to improve your access to the people who write the prescriptions and I think that will be an important point of leverage. Speaker 400:19:42Excellent. Thanks very much. Speaker 200:19:44Thank you, Julian. Operator00:19:46Thank Speaker 200:19:56One moment Operator00:19:56please for our next question. Our next question will come from Ed Arce of H. C. Wainwright and Company. Your line is open. Speaker 500:20:12Hi, John and Eldon. Thanks for taking my questions. And sorry, I missed you this past weekend in Philadelphia. Three questions from me. Firstly, on the launch, just wanted to ask, Prior to the TDAPA, which you expect in October of next year, what kind of activities will you be focused on those 1st 6 months As you prepare for meaningful sales ramp. Speaker 500:20:42And then once you do get to TDAPA, could you just Review again the sort of perspective from the dialysis centers on the financial incentives Speaker 400:20:56that Speaker 500:20:59would be in place once the DAPA is designated. Secondly, I wanted to ask about pricing, especially relative to GSK, and what your thoughts there, if you can share anything? And then lastly, just wanted to ask again about the addressable market. I think you said in your prepared remarks it was $550,000,000 or $575,000,000 And there's a small percentage that do not take And eating medications for anemia. So just wanted to tie that down a little better. Speaker 500:21:33Thanks again. Speaker 200:21:36Sure, Ed. Thank you for the question. Sorry, I missed you last weekend. I hope you enjoyed the meeting as much as I did. So just the last one first. Speaker 200:21:44So there's About 550,000 dialysis patients and about 90%, 88% are on an ESA today. So there's always that small percentage of patients who aren't Don't need to be treated very late stage or early and their hemoglobins are still Some start dialysis with a little bit of residual kidney function, so they don't necessarily need to start in ESA right away. So, but that's still about a half a 1000000 patients that are eligible. You used to be able to say that the market was growing by 2% to 5% a year Religiously for the last 30 years that I've been in it, but of course COVID has changed that, really thrown on its head. We've even seen that with the phosphate binder market That hasn't quite started to recover. Speaker 200:22:39It's starting to, but not quite there. So your question is about launch. So prior to TDAPA, it's actually I mean it's frustrating obviously to have to wait 6 months for CMS to provide that PDAPA designation. And you'll see that come in, I think it's around July, if everything goes on the timeline, we would get the HCPCS And so you'd be marching down that. But the dialysis providers really need that time also to prepare for Introducing a new product into their protocols, etcetera. Speaker 200:23:15So there will be things going on in a number of in a number of different ways. Obviously, there'll be contracting that's happening with the dialysis providers. They'll be our commercial organization will be able to talk about the product. It will be an approved product with an approved label. Physicians will want to learn about the product, so having those conversations before it's available and explaining to them the timing will be critical as well. Speaker 200:23:45And maybe the most important work will be done by our medical organization and Vifor, CSL's medical organization, where you'll be working with the dialysis providers on those protocols for how the product will be used in the dialysis center. So we won't see and again, some dialysis providers may choose to do Like small experience trials to develop those protocols and so you may see some revenue. But I really want to kind of minimize the idea that there'll be significant revenue. This is It's really an important 6 months to be ready to hit the ground and take advantage of that 2 year TDAPA period. And that's that will be so that will be critical. Speaker 200:24:41We're looking forward to that. And then on the dialysis center side, again, for The patients who are PPS patients, which are see, 90% of patients on dialysis are Medicare patients. Those almost used to be almost all prospective payment system or PPS payments patients. When Medicare Advantage was introduced into dialysis, that has moved quickly and it's close to 40% to 50% of dialysis patients now. So the MA area is a little more challenging since they're individual contracts, Each provider has a different contract and they're a little hit and miss and we're still trying to understand and help ensure that there's this Separate payment available for those MA patients. Speaker 200:25:30So that's more work we'll be doing even from today. But on those 50% of patients who are PPS patients, it's very clear that this TDAPA designation pays for Vadadustat on an ASP basis. So whenever the product is used, the dialysis center will bill for the cost of thatadustat and CMS will determine ASP and reimburse at that rate. Basically what that means is they have a fixed payment. I believe the bundled payment is 2.80 Dollars of dialysis sessions, something like that for next year and the final rule. Speaker 200:26:13And that includes the dollars that they would spend on an ESA. So dialysis providers, they have the confidence that they're going to get paid for vadadustat on a cost basis and they don't have to Purchased the ESA, they look at that as an opportunity to use an innovative product And potentially a cost saving for them as well. And that's something that obviously is important as dialysis Medicare patients are not where dialysis providers make their money. So any opportunity they can have to squeeze those costs down, they look for that opportunity. And I think your last question was on pricing. Speaker 200:26:58And of course, we're not prepared to talk about pricing for vadadustat Yet, we've always talked about kind of understanding the market. The market the price in the market for ESAs has gone down Pretty substantively over the last few years. Interestingly, if you look at the wholesale cost Pricing of DSUVRAQ or depradustat from GSK, If you look at the average dose from their Phase 3 study, that would indicate about an $8,000 a year pricing. Now we've indicated that the opportunity for premium pricing exists and I think that they've seen that as well certainly during the TDAPA period. We don't know what their contract pricing is. Speaker 200:27:50We don't have any indication that it's going to be significantly lower than that number. So that certainly helps inform us as we think about our pricing for the vadadustat launch. Great. Thanks, John. That's very helpful. Speaker 200:28:06Thank you, Ed. Operator00:28:08Thank you. Speaker 200:28:09We're able to get Ali back, Chris? Operator00:28:18One moment please for our next question. And again, we have Allison Bradshaw of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Again, Ms. Braco. Operator00:28:35One moment. Speaker 200:28:43It looks like we have luckily multiple ways of communicating these days. So Ali emailed Mercedes her questions. Speaker 100:28:53Yes, I'm going to I'll jump in. Thank you very much, Chris. And All right. Let's start with current cash burn and runway guidance. Alan, can you talk through The cash runway guidance, especially with the loan agreement and how that might change things. Speaker 300:29:15Yes, thank you. We don't provide OpEx guidance, but that said, Auryxia continues to contribute meaningful cash to fund operations, And we have a disciplined approach to spending and continue to streamline and become more efficient in our operations. We're extremely happy with where we landed on our PharmaCon amendment and giving us the opportunity to invest incrementally cost to support the vadadustat launch, And we believe we have sufficient cash to fund operations well through 2024. Speaker 200:29:46Great. Speaker 100:29:46Thank you, Ellen. And then just to build on the question on potential pricing for vadadustat. How might you be thinking about pricing once the TDAPA period ends? Speaker 200:29:58That's an important question. So as we talked about TDAPA, you've got kind of that 2 year window where you're outside of the dialysis bundle. When TDAP ends in the final rule that came out just A couple of weeks ago, basically the way CMS has looked at it is they look at the overall utilization of a product that was part of TDAPA And then they basically take those dollars and spread it over all of the dialysis sessions that are provided. So for a product that has very limited use and a very small number of patients, that's really challenging, right? It doesn't really provide the dialysis providers The cash if they have 1 or 2 patients that are getting a drug. Speaker 200:30:51The great thing for vadadustat is As we talked about dialysis anemia is treated in 90% of dialysis patients and there are significant dollars already in The bundle. So thinking about that pricing and that post TDAPA policy is a little bit more straightforward. Now, I don't think that that post TDAPA Policy really encourages innovation long term. And one of the things being part of the Kidney Care Partners, the lobbying coalition, this is a Key area of focus for us and kind of creating a better Way to incorporate innovation into treatment of these patients. So we're going to continue to lobby on the Hill and with CMS to Have those dollars follow the patients and that's a real opportunity for us. Speaker 200:31:49So if we think about the environment today though, Whatever pricing you have during your TDAPA period, you are going to have to adapt that pricing to kind of what's in the bundle moving forward. So there will be and we'll kind of see where our pricing strategy lands, But I do expect that the contracting price will have to become more aggressive post TDAPA without a change in that post TDAPA policy. Stay tuned as that progresses, but that's the way we're thinking about that. Speaker 100:32:24Great. And on vadadustat, can you help us frame the base case expectation on the label, particularly any differences compared to dapradustat and whether that will matter for uptake? Speaker 200:32:37So obviously, we haven't started labeling discussions with FDA yet. I mean, they're early in their review. But we do think that there are significant differences between the compounds. We know that FDA It does frequently have a desire to have class labeling, but there are certain areas that We really believe that the data doesn't support that. So we've really tried to address that Those particular areas as aggressively as we can or as clearly as we can, maybe is a better word, in our draft labeling to the FDA. Speaker 200:33:20But of course, we will obviously work with the agency to have the product approved and there's a From a compound perspective, we really do think that these are very different products. And some of the areas like the 4 months Not using the product till patients been on for 4 months. If you look at the MACE data from INNOVATE, from incident patients and from the 1,000 patients protect who became dialysis patients during treatment, there's no increase in MACE risk Seen in that data. So we've incorporated that into our resubmission, feel very strongly about that and that's the kind of conversation we're looking forward to having with the agency. Speaker 100:34:10Great. Thanks. And then finally just on the Auryxia side once more. Ellen had provided good commentary on volume expectations for next Just curious if that factors in any impact from the availability of Tannapenor or more broadly how should we be thinking about the competitive set for Auryxia moving forward? Speaker 200:34:30Yes. So the way we think about Tanapanor, honestly, as a person who's worked in the space For 30 years as a patient advocate, it's exciting to see a product, a new technology come in. What we know, Rixi is a great product, sevelinib is a great product. They don't manage patients' phosphorus levels to normal. And we know there's a direct relationship between Phosphorus and mortality in dialysis patients. Speaker 200:34:57And so managing patients more aggressively, if you will, to a lower phosphorus level is a benefit to patients. And with tapanor, I think they can do that and that's clearly where the label is written. It is an add on therapy. I didn't mention that as one of the things that can help drive Auryxia sales. There will be more interest in phosphorus management with physicians because they have and the Ardellix folks will be out there talking about, tapanor as well. Speaker 200:35:27And the idea that Patients who have an average phosphorus of 6 can get to 5 or 4.5 would be a fantastic thing for patient outcomes And at the end of the day, more focus on phosphate finders or phosphate control only helps Auryxia. Speaker 100:35:45Great. Operator00:35:48Thank you. I'm seeing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to Speaker 200:35:52turn the conference back to John Butler for closing remarks. Thanks, Chris, and thanks everyone for your questions. Now nearly through 2023, I just want to reiterate How well positioned we believe Akebia is to close the year. Our team is committed to our strategic objectives. We're eager to bring vadadustat to patients in the U. Speaker 200:36:12S. If approved and will work to ensure vadadustat is available globally through our commercial partnerships will advance our pipeline and grow our revenue in the years ahead. We believe our efforts will help create sustained value for our shareholders, while continue towards our purpose to better the lives of people impacted by kidney disease. Thanks everyone for joining us today. I look forward to updating you in the future. Operator00:36:39This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect and have a pleasant day.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallAkebia Therapeutics Q3 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) Akebia Therapeutics Earnings HeadlinesWhat is Leerink Partnrs' Estimate for AKBA Q1 Earnings?May 3 at 2:01 AM | americanbankingnews.comAkebia Therapeutics, Inc. 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Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Akebia Therapeutics and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About Akebia TherapeuticsAkebia Therapeutics (NASDAQ:AKBA), a biopharmaceutical company, focuses on the development and commercialization of therapeutics for patients with kidney diseases. The company's lead product investigational product candidate is Vafseo (vadadustat), an oral hypoxia-inducible factor prolyl hydroxylase, which is in Phase III development for the treatment of anemia due to chronic kidney disease (CKD) in dialysis-dependent and non-dialysis dependent patients. It offers Auryxia, a ferric citrate that is used to control the serum phosphorus levels in adult patients with DD-CKD on dialysis; and the treatment of iron deficiency anemia in adult patients with CKD not on dialysis. The company's product pipeline includes AKB-9090, a drug targeting critical-care indications; and AKB-10108, a drug targeting conditions related to premature birth. It has collaboration agreements with Mitsubishi Tanabe Pharma Corporation for the development and commercialization of vadadustat in Japan and other Asian countries, as well as research and license agreement with Janssen Pharmaceutica NV for the development and commercialization of hypoxia-inducible factor prolyl hydroxylase targeted compounds worldwide. Akebia Therapeutics, Inc. was incorporated in 2007 and is headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts.View Akebia Therapeutics ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Is Reddit Stock a Buy, Sell, or Hold After Earnings Release?Warning or Opportunity After Super Micro Computer's EarningsAmazon Earnings: 2 Reasons to Love It, 1 Reason to Be CautiousRocket Lab Braces for Q1 Earnings Amid Soaring ExpectationsMeta Takes A Bow With Q1 Earnings - Watch For Tariff Impact in Q2Palantir Earnings: 1 Bullish Signal and 1 Area of ConcernVisa Q2 Earnings Top Forecasts, Adds $30B Buyback Plan Upcoming Earnings Fortinet (5/7/2025)ARM (5/7/2025)DoorDash (5/7/2025)AppLovin (5/7/2025)MercadoLibre (5/7/2025)Lloyds Banking Group (5/7/2025)Manulife Financial (5/7/2025)Novo Nordisk A/S (5/7/2025)Uber Technologies (5/7/2025)Johnson Controls International (5/7/2025) Get 30 Days of MarketBeat All Access for Free Sign up for MarketBeat All Access to gain access to MarketBeat's full suite of research tools. 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There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Akebia Therapeutics Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. And I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Ms. Operator00:00:35Mercedes Carrasco. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:39Thank you. Thank you, and welcome to Akebia's 3rd quarter 2023 financial results and business updates conference call. Please note that a press release was issued earlier today, Wednesday, November 8, detailing our Q3 financial results, and that release is available on the Investors section of our website. For your convenience, a replay of today's call will also be available on our website after we conclude. Joining me for today's call, we have John Butler, Chief Executive Officer and Ellen Snow, Chief Financial Officer. Speaker 100:01:14I'd like to remind everyone that this call includes forward looking statements. Each forward looking statement on this call is subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these statements. Additional information describing these risks is included in the financial results press release that we issued on November 8, as well as in the Risk Factors and Management Discussion and Analysis section of our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. The forward looking statements on this call speak only as of the original date of this Call and except as required by law, we do not undertake any obligation to update or revise any of these statements. With that, I'd like to introduce our CEO, John Butler. Speaker 100:02:04John? Speaker 200:02:05Thanks, Mercedes. For those who've been following our story over the past Couple of years and have witnessed all of our team's efforts. You know it gives me great pleasure to talk to you about Akebia's future today with an extremely important and hard fought catalyst in our sites. As we've reported, the FDA set a user fee goal date or PDUFA date of March 27, 2024, pravadadustat, our oral HIFPH inhibitor to treat anemia due to chronic kidney disease or CKD in patients on dialysis. That's less than 5 months away. Speaker 200:02:42Our team has been working diligently towards the U. S. Approval for vadadustat. We completed a formal dispute process and engaged with the FDA during an end of dispute Type A meeting. We then resubmitted to our NDA for vadadustat in September. Speaker 200:02:57Our resubmission included post marketing safety data from tens of thousands of patients in Japan Rivadadustat is approved and has been on the market for more than 3 years. Based on the new data in the resubmission, the FDA assigned a 6 month review cycle in line with our prior expectations. Today, they are actively engaged in the review. I just returned from the American Society of Nephrology Kidney Week last week. I was excited to see how much innovation is happening for patients with kidney disease, including multiple products introduced since the meeting last year. Speaker 200:03:34I had the pleasure of having many conversations with key medical experts, And I can say unequivocally that these physicians are very excited about the role vadadustat and HIF can play in the treatment of patients with CKD. They were very happy to share thoughts on where the greatest patient need exists as well as areas for future research. For our part, we're confident in our path forward and continue to believe in the benefit vadadustat can deliver to patients. If approved, we're eager to bring vadadustat to market in the U. S. Speaker 200:04:05As an alternative oral treatment to deliver on our commitment to patients, our partners and the broader kidney community. Before I speak to the potential commercial opportunity for vadadustat in the U. S, I want to again applaud our regulatory team for their productive interactions with the FDA over the past year and timely completion of the resubmission. I also want to thank our partner Mitsubishi Tanabe Pharma Corporation or MTPC who markets vadadustat in Japan and was instrumental in collecting the safety data included in the resubmission as part of their typical post marketing vigilance in Japan. Now with the regulatory resubmission in our rearview mirror, we're now shifting our focus to the vadadustat launch phase that we expect next year if vadadustat is approved. Speaker 200:04:56In the international markets, vadadustat has approved in 36 countries. Since our last call, vadadustat has been approved in Australia and Taiwan. Work is underway by our partner, Badisi, to bring VASCO vadadustat to market in Europe in 2024, which would generate future royalties and potential milestones for Akebia. That said, a U. S. Speaker 200:05:17Launch of vadadustat would represent our most significant commercial opportunity. With approval, we have the potential target in approximately $1,000,000,000 market based on estimates that approximately 88% of the nearly 550,000 patients on dialysis would be treated with an erythropoiesis stimulating agent or ESA for anemia. These are the injectables that are the standard of care. It's important to highlight that we are already well prepared for a potential launch and have identified important tailwinds we believe will contribute to our success. First, we have our commercial product supply ready to go awaiting final label post potential approval. Speaker 200:05:592nd, we also have an experienced commercial sales organization actively calling on dialysis centers. We believe there is approximately a 96% overlap between Auryxia prescribers and potential vadadustat prescribers. Importantly, we'll also benefit from our partnership with CSL vifor, which enables potential access to 60% of the treatment centers through its collaboration with Fresenius Medical Care and other small and medium sized providers. While we do expect to invest appropriately in the vadadustat launch to reflect the significant opportunity, based on our initial preparedness from 2022 and our existing infrastructure, we expect that investment in 2024 to be incremental compared to our current OpEx. It's critical to also understand the unique payment landscape in dialysis. Speaker 200:06:49Medications used to treat most dialysis patients in the U. S. Are reimbursed as part of a bundle payment made to providers. Included in the bundle payment are funds for an ESA treatment used to manage anemia. To promote innovative drug use for patients in that prospective payment system, CMS implemented a transitional add on payment adjustment or TDAPA. Speaker 200:07:12For 2 years post TDAPA designation, the TDAPA payment would cover the cost of vadadustat if a physician prescribed their product. Their overall bundled payment does not change. Now while we continue to work on post TDAPA payment policy, It's important to recognize that today almost 90% of dialysis patients are treated for anemia and there are significant dollars in the current bundle payment for the treatment of anemia. We expect to have vadadustat commercially available quickly following a potential approval, but expect minimal initial revenue to be generated in those 1st months. After the 6 month TDAPA application process Anticipated to be complete by October of 'twenty four, we anticipate the product would be reimbursed and widely available and accessible to patients. Speaker 200:08:04As I mentioned earlier, we will have a strong tailwind from our CSL Vifor relationship, which will provide Akibiu with potential up to 60% of the dialysis market through CSL V Force collaboration with Fresenius Kidney Care and several small to midsized providers with whom they contract. Akebia will receive 2 thirds of the profit associated with Vadadustat sales in those centers, net of certain pre specified costs, and Vifor will keep 1 third of the profits. Akibio will retain 100% of the economics in markets not covered by our contract, predominantly any sales to DaVita. Now we're also fortunate to be supported through this launch by the robust cash flows from Auryxia. Today, we reported Auryxia net product revenue of $40,100,000 in the 3rd quarter. Speaker 200:08:55We've guided to $170,000,000 to $175,000,000 net Product revenue for the year and I expect will come in around $170,000,000 We expect Auryxia revenue to grow in 2024 as we exit unfavorable payer contracts, incrementally expand our commercial and medical footprint and gain broader access to providers from their interest in learning about vadadustat if it's approved. Lastly, we were able to delay the cash payments associated with our Pharmakon debt service until October of 2024, which provides us with additional flexibility to invest in the launch of vadadustat as well as other growth opportunities for the company. And to provide more information on our revenue and other financials, I'd now like to turn the call over to Ellen Snow, our Chief Financial Officer. Ellen? Speaker 300:09:48Good morning, everyone. Our priority continues to be focused on strengthening our balance sheet as we enter a potential launch year, marked this quarter by a favorable loan amendment, which strengthened our cash position for 2024. The Pharmacon loan amendment extends the maturity date of our loan to March of 2025 from November 2024 and defers Akebia's quarterly principal payments until October 31, 2024, at which time the company will begin making monthly principal payments through the date of maturity. The favorable modification to payment terms enables us to strategically invest in the vadadustat launch activities, while also continuing to maximize Auryxia revenue for the remainder of the year and into 2024. Our cash and cash equivalents and restricted cash as of September 30, 2023 totaled $48,200,000 which with cash from operations we expect to fund planned operations for at least the next 12 months. Speaker 300:10:50Contributing to our cash position, total revenues were $42,000,000 for the Q3 of 2023. Net product revenues from sale of Auryxia were $40,100,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $42,000,000 for the Q3 2022. The decrease is primarily due to a reduction in volume and the impact of shifting payer mix, partially caused by Contracting dynamics and a decline in the phosphate binder market. The decline was partially offset by price increases in January of 2023 July of While our quarterly revenue was down from last quarter and compared to the Q3 of 2022, This is a similar trend to what we saw last year and we'll still expect strong 4th quarter. And thus, as John mentioned, we believe Thea net product revenue will be around $170,000,000 for the full 2023. Speaker 300:11:46We are committed to both maximizing our current business opportunities and pursuing growth initiatives to create value for our shareholders. While Auryxia is now a mature brand nearing loss of exclusivity in March of 2025, We expect relatively stable volume next year, while benefiting from higher pricing due to exiting certain payer contracts over the next year. In addition, we continue to work to understand the potential impact and opportunity we could realize when phosphate binders enter the bundle in 2025. As we look to our cost structure, we continue to focus on cost containment. Cost of goods sold or COGS was 18 dollars 1,000,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $38,300,000 for the Q3 of 2022. Speaker 300:12:33COGS reflects the cost of Auryxia, including non cash intangible amortization charge of $9,000,000 per quarter through the Q4 of 2024 and 3rd party royalties. The decrease was primarily due to a non cash charge related to the excess purchase commitments recorded in 2022 and a reduction in inventory write downs and lower volume of sales resulting and reduced product costs for 2023. R and D expenses were $13,300,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $28,000,000 for the Q3 of 2022. The decrease was primarily due to a reduction in spending on vadadustat development, including clinical trial and curtailment of outsourced contract services. SG and A expenses were $22,700,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to $31,900,000 for the Q3 of 2022, primarily as a result of the reduction in headcount related costs, set by some onetime non recurring expenses. Speaker 300:13:45Net loss was $14,500,000 for the Q3 of 2023 compared to a net loss of $54,100,000 for the Q3 of 2022. We continue to find ways of operating more efficiently, placing an increased scrutiny on Allair's operating expenses. We are deliberate about managing expenses in our efforts to further extend our cash runway until the potential launch of vadadustat here in the U. S. Revenue from Auryxia continues to provide cash for operations, and we are excited that we have a PDUFA date of March 27, 2024. Speaker 300:14:21The entire leadership team remains energized and focused on delivering an alternative oral treatment to patients if approved by the FDA. With that, we will now open the call for questions. Operator? Operator00:14:40Thank Our first question will come from Allison Braetzell of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Pardon me, Alison Braczel, your line is open. You may ask your question. Speaker 200:15:27Chris, why don't we move to the next question. We'll come back to Ali. Operator00:15:30Okay. Thank you. One moment please. One moment please for our next question. The next question will come from Julian Harrison of BTIG. Operator00:15:45Your line is open. Speaker 400:15:48Hi, congrats on the recent progress and thank you for taking my questions. First, both vadadustat and dapradustat have been on the market In Japan for several years now. So I guess I'm curious if there's anything from the experience there that informs you about how the 2 drugs should coexist in the U. S. Going forward? Speaker 400:16:05And then it sounds like the cross selling opportunity between Auryxia and potential Vadadustat prescribers is likely significant. So I was just wondering if you could talk more about how you plan Speaker 200:16:19Julien, thanks for your question. So we often get asked about the And it's tough To really point to much because it's such a different market, for one thing, of course, the product is available for dialysis patients and non dialysis patients. For another, there are I think it's 5 HIF PHIs that are available on the market in Japan. So you have a very different kind of commercial dynamic there as well. But what we have seen is Kind of steady adoption of the HIF PHIs into the market. Speaker 200:17:02So as we would expect to see with a new class. It's taken some time for it to It's going to move into normal use, but I think we're seeing that become more and more common now across Japan. Of course, when there's 5 companies Promoting the product, you do have a lot more kind of share of voice across that class. But it's just again, as we said, we've always wanted the non dialysis market opportunity as well, right? And that is where You're seeing more of the use and more of the focus from all of the companies, but you're seeing dialysis adoption as well. Speaker 200:17:47And then your second question was about the overlap. And I mean this is you can go back to 2018 when we We closed the transaction with Keryx and created a commercial company in Akebia. It was With the expressed desire to pick up that leverage, right, the idea that we have this commercial organization in place That's already calling on nephrologists in dialysis centers, has deep relationships with them. Of Of course, we didn't hope for this 2 year delay on when we'd be able to take advantage of that leverage, but we think that's extraordinarily important. We have A very experienced sales organization. Speaker 200:18:31As I said, I think we'll need to incrementally increase that group, but we'll do that Quickly and Auryxia will benefit from that as much as vadadustat will. But when you look at any of your Presence at ASN or any other kind of marketing opportunity, you basically get the leverage of having 2 products in the market. And I think it's important also and I kind of referenced this in my prepared remarks that when Vadadustat is approved, assuming Vadadustat approved, physicians will be very interested in talking to reps about that new product. Remember Auryxia is an 8 or 9 year old product. It's not quite as easy to get access to physicians. Speaker 200:19:20With that access, They obviously have the opportunity to talk about Auryxia as well. And in my past, I've seen significant organic growth from the more mature product When you have the opportunity to improve your access to the people who write the prescriptions and I think that will be an important point of leverage. Speaker 400:19:42Excellent. Thanks very much. Speaker 200:19:44Thank you, Julian. Operator00:19:46Thank Speaker 200:19:56One moment Operator00:19:56please for our next question. Our next question will come from Ed Arce of H. C. Wainwright and Company. Your line is open. Speaker 500:20:12Hi, John and Eldon. Thanks for taking my questions. And sorry, I missed you this past weekend in Philadelphia. Three questions from me. Firstly, on the launch, just wanted to ask, Prior to the TDAPA, which you expect in October of next year, what kind of activities will you be focused on those 1st 6 months As you prepare for meaningful sales ramp. Speaker 500:20:42And then once you do get to TDAPA, could you just Review again the sort of perspective from the dialysis centers on the financial incentives Speaker 400:20:56that Speaker 500:20:59would be in place once the DAPA is designated. Secondly, I wanted to ask about pricing, especially relative to GSK, and what your thoughts there, if you can share anything? And then lastly, just wanted to ask again about the addressable market. I think you said in your prepared remarks it was $550,000,000 or $575,000,000 And there's a small percentage that do not take And eating medications for anemia. So just wanted to tie that down a little better. Speaker 500:21:33Thanks again. Speaker 200:21:36Sure, Ed. Thank you for the question. Sorry, I missed you last weekend. I hope you enjoyed the meeting as much as I did. So just the last one first. Speaker 200:21:44So there's About 550,000 dialysis patients and about 90%, 88% are on an ESA today. So there's always that small percentage of patients who aren't Don't need to be treated very late stage or early and their hemoglobins are still Some start dialysis with a little bit of residual kidney function, so they don't necessarily need to start in ESA right away. So, but that's still about a half a 1000000 patients that are eligible. You used to be able to say that the market was growing by 2% to 5% a year Religiously for the last 30 years that I've been in it, but of course COVID has changed that, really thrown on its head. We've even seen that with the phosphate binder market That hasn't quite started to recover. Speaker 200:22:39It's starting to, but not quite there. So your question is about launch. So prior to TDAPA, it's actually I mean it's frustrating obviously to have to wait 6 months for CMS to provide that PDAPA designation. And you'll see that come in, I think it's around July, if everything goes on the timeline, we would get the HCPCS And so you'd be marching down that. But the dialysis providers really need that time also to prepare for Introducing a new product into their protocols, etcetera. Speaker 200:23:15So there will be things going on in a number of in a number of different ways. Obviously, there'll be contracting that's happening with the dialysis providers. They'll be our commercial organization will be able to talk about the product. It will be an approved product with an approved label. Physicians will want to learn about the product, so having those conversations before it's available and explaining to them the timing will be critical as well. Speaker 200:23:45And maybe the most important work will be done by our medical organization and Vifor, CSL's medical organization, where you'll be working with the dialysis providers on those protocols for how the product will be used in the dialysis center. So we won't see and again, some dialysis providers may choose to do Like small experience trials to develop those protocols and so you may see some revenue. But I really want to kind of minimize the idea that there'll be significant revenue. This is It's really an important 6 months to be ready to hit the ground and take advantage of that 2 year TDAPA period. And that's that will be so that will be critical. Speaker 200:24:41We're looking forward to that. And then on the dialysis center side, again, for The patients who are PPS patients, which are see, 90% of patients on dialysis are Medicare patients. Those almost used to be almost all prospective payment system or PPS payments patients. When Medicare Advantage was introduced into dialysis, that has moved quickly and it's close to 40% to 50% of dialysis patients now. So the MA area is a little more challenging since they're individual contracts, Each provider has a different contract and they're a little hit and miss and we're still trying to understand and help ensure that there's this Separate payment available for those MA patients. Speaker 200:25:30So that's more work we'll be doing even from today. But on those 50% of patients who are PPS patients, it's very clear that this TDAPA designation pays for Vadadustat on an ASP basis. So whenever the product is used, the dialysis center will bill for the cost of thatadustat and CMS will determine ASP and reimburse at that rate. Basically what that means is they have a fixed payment. I believe the bundled payment is 2.80 Dollars of dialysis sessions, something like that for next year and the final rule. Speaker 200:26:13And that includes the dollars that they would spend on an ESA. So dialysis providers, they have the confidence that they're going to get paid for vadadustat on a cost basis and they don't have to Purchased the ESA, they look at that as an opportunity to use an innovative product And potentially a cost saving for them as well. And that's something that obviously is important as dialysis Medicare patients are not where dialysis providers make their money. So any opportunity they can have to squeeze those costs down, they look for that opportunity. And I think your last question was on pricing. Speaker 200:26:58And of course, we're not prepared to talk about pricing for vadadustat Yet, we've always talked about kind of understanding the market. The market the price in the market for ESAs has gone down Pretty substantively over the last few years. Interestingly, if you look at the wholesale cost Pricing of DSUVRAQ or depradustat from GSK, If you look at the average dose from their Phase 3 study, that would indicate about an $8,000 a year pricing. Now we've indicated that the opportunity for premium pricing exists and I think that they've seen that as well certainly during the TDAPA period. We don't know what their contract pricing is. Speaker 200:27:50We don't have any indication that it's going to be significantly lower than that number. So that certainly helps inform us as we think about our pricing for the vadadustat launch. Great. Thanks, John. That's very helpful. Speaker 200:28:06Thank you, Ed. Operator00:28:08Thank you. Speaker 200:28:09We're able to get Ali back, Chris? Operator00:28:18One moment please for our next question. And again, we have Allison Bradshaw of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Again, Ms. Braco. Operator00:28:35One moment. Speaker 200:28:43It looks like we have luckily multiple ways of communicating these days. So Ali emailed Mercedes her questions. Speaker 100:28:53Yes, I'm going to I'll jump in. Thank you very much, Chris. And All right. Let's start with current cash burn and runway guidance. Alan, can you talk through The cash runway guidance, especially with the loan agreement and how that might change things. Speaker 300:29:15Yes, thank you. We don't provide OpEx guidance, but that said, Auryxia continues to contribute meaningful cash to fund operations, And we have a disciplined approach to spending and continue to streamline and become more efficient in our operations. We're extremely happy with where we landed on our PharmaCon amendment and giving us the opportunity to invest incrementally cost to support the vadadustat launch, And we believe we have sufficient cash to fund operations well through 2024. Speaker 200:29:46Great. Speaker 100:29:46Thank you, Ellen. And then just to build on the question on potential pricing for vadadustat. How might you be thinking about pricing once the TDAPA period ends? Speaker 200:29:58That's an important question. So as we talked about TDAPA, you've got kind of that 2 year window where you're outside of the dialysis bundle. When TDAP ends in the final rule that came out just A couple of weeks ago, basically the way CMS has looked at it is they look at the overall utilization of a product that was part of TDAPA And then they basically take those dollars and spread it over all of the dialysis sessions that are provided. So for a product that has very limited use and a very small number of patients, that's really challenging, right? It doesn't really provide the dialysis providers The cash if they have 1 or 2 patients that are getting a drug. Speaker 200:30:51The great thing for vadadustat is As we talked about dialysis anemia is treated in 90% of dialysis patients and there are significant dollars already in The bundle. So thinking about that pricing and that post TDAPA policy is a little bit more straightforward. Now, I don't think that that post TDAPA Policy really encourages innovation long term. And one of the things being part of the Kidney Care Partners, the lobbying coalition, this is a Key area of focus for us and kind of creating a better Way to incorporate innovation into treatment of these patients. So we're going to continue to lobby on the Hill and with CMS to Have those dollars follow the patients and that's a real opportunity for us. Speaker 200:31:49So if we think about the environment today though, Whatever pricing you have during your TDAPA period, you are going to have to adapt that pricing to kind of what's in the bundle moving forward. So there will be and we'll kind of see where our pricing strategy lands, But I do expect that the contracting price will have to become more aggressive post TDAPA without a change in that post TDAPA policy. Stay tuned as that progresses, but that's the way we're thinking about that. Speaker 100:32:24Great. And on vadadustat, can you help us frame the base case expectation on the label, particularly any differences compared to dapradustat and whether that will matter for uptake? Speaker 200:32:37So obviously, we haven't started labeling discussions with FDA yet. I mean, they're early in their review. But we do think that there are significant differences between the compounds. We know that FDA It does frequently have a desire to have class labeling, but there are certain areas that We really believe that the data doesn't support that. So we've really tried to address that Those particular areas as aggressively as we can or as clearly as we can, maybe is a better word, in our draft labeling to the FDA. Speaker 200:33:20But of course, we will obviously work with the agency to have the product approved and there's a From a compound perspective, we really do think that these are very different products. And some of the areas like the 4 months Not using the product till patients been on for 4 months. If you look at the MACE data from INNOVATE, from incident patients and from the 1,000 patients protect who became dialysis patients during treatment, there's no increase in MACE risk Seen in that data. So we've incorporated that into our resubmission, feel very strongly about that and that's the kind of conversation we're looking forward to having with the agency. Speaker 100:34:10Great. Thanks. And then finally just on the Auryxia side once more. Ellen had provided good commentary on volume expectations for next Just curious if that factors in any impact from the availability of Tannapenor or more broadly how should we be thinking about the competitive set for Auryxia moving forward? Speaker 200:34:30Yes. So the way we think about Tanapanor, honestly, as a person who's worked in the space For 30 years as a patient advocate, it's exciting to see a product, a new technology come in. What we know, Rixi is a great product, sevelinib is a great product. They don't manage patients' phosphorus levels to normal. And we know there's a direct relationship between Phosphorus and mortality in dialysis patients. Speaker 200:34:57And so managing patients more aggressively, if you will, to a lower phosphorus level is a benefit to patients. And with tapanor, I think they can do that and that's clearly where the label is written. It is an add on therapy. I didn't mention that as one of the things that can help drive Auryxia sales. There will be more interest in phosphorus management with physicians because they have and the Ardellix folks will be out there talking about, tapanor as well. Speaker 200:35:27And the idea that Patients who have an average phosphorus of 6 can get to 5 or 4.5 would be a fantastic thing for patient outcomes And at the end of the day, more focus on phosphate finders or phosphate control only helps Auryxia. Speaker 100:35:45Great. Operator00:35:48Thank you. I'm seeing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to Speaker 200:35:52turn the conference back to John Butler for closing remarks. Thanks, Chris, and thanks everyone for your questions. Now nearly through 2023, I just want to reiterate How well positioned we believe Akebia is to close the year. Our team is committed to our strategic objectives. We're eager to bring vadadustat to patients in the U. Speaker 200:36:12S. If approved and will work to ensure vadadustat is available globally through our commercial partnerships will advance our pipeline and grow our revenue in the years ahead. We believe our efforts will help create sustained value for our shareholders, while continue towards our purpose to better the lives of people impacted by kidney disease. Thanks everyone for joining us today. I look forward to updating you in the future. Operator00:36:39This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect and have a pleasant day.Read morePowered by