DuPont de Nemours Q4 2022 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
February 7, 2023

Key Takeaways

  • Fourth-quarter results: Organic sales rose 5% with pricing offsetting over $800 M of inflation, driving 1% EBITDA growth and a 120 bp margin increase.
  • Portfolio transformation: Closed the M&M divestiture, launched a $3.25 B accelerated share repurchase and $5 B buyback, retired $2.5 B of debt, and raised the dividend 9%, bolstering the balance sheet.
  • 2023 guidance assumes Q1 organic sales down mid-single digits, full-year net sales of $12.3–12.9 B, EBITDA of $3.0–3.3 B, and adjusted EPS of $3.50–$4.00, with recovery expected midyear.
  • Strategic end-market exposure is tilted towards secular growth: ~33% in electronics, 12% in water (mid-high single-digit growth), and 13% in auto (EV technologies).
  • 2022 free cash flow was $173 M after ~$650 M of transaction costs and working-capital headwinds; DuPont targets ~90% cash conversion and deployed $7.5 B in buybacks, dividends, and deleveraging.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
DuPont de Nemours Q4 2022
00:00 / 00:00

There are 14 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning. My name is Rob, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the DuPont Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer Thank you.

Operator

Chris MacRae, Vice President, Investor Relations, you may begin your conference.

Speaker 1

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for DuPont's 4th quarter and full year 2022 financial results conference call. Joining me today are Ed Breen, Chief Executive Officer and Lori Koch, Chief Financial Officer. We have prepared slides to supplement our remarks, which are posted on DuPont's website under the Investor Relations tab and through the webcast link. Please read the forward looking statement disclaimer contained in the slides. During this call, we will make forward looking statements regarding our expectations or predictions about the future Because these statements are based on current assumptions and factors that involve risks and uncertainties, our actual performance and results may differ materially from our forward looking statements.

Speaker 1

Our Form 10 ks, as updated by our current and periodic reports, includes detailed discussion of principal risks and uncertainties, which may cause such differences. Unless otherwise specified, all historical financial measures presented today exclude significant items. We will also refer to non GAAP measures. A reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure is included in our press release and has been posted to DuPont's Investor Relations website. I'll now turn the call over to Ed.

Speaker 1

Good morning and thank you for joining our Q4 full year 2022 financial review. We posted strong quarterly top and bottom line results in line with our previously communicated guidance in an uneven global economy. 4th quarter revenue included 5% organic growth versus the year ago period. Strong volume in water and auto adhesives As well as ongoing strength in industrial end markets such as healthcare and aerospace helped mitigate volume declines in consumer electronics end markets and softening conditions in North American Construction Markets. Strong pricing growth in the quarter Reflects actions taken largely prior to the Q4 to offset persistent inflationary pressures in all materials, Logistics and Energy.

Speaker 1

We sold over $800,000,000 in year over year inflation headwinds for full year 2022. We delivered year over year operating EBITDA growth in the 4th quarter despite a slight volume decline, Currency headwinds and the impact of portfolio divestitures. We also saw a margin improvement of 120 basis points, demonstrating solid operational execution and focus on items that we can control within the highly diverse end markets where we participate. The closing of the M and M sale was a milestone event in the Q4 and our last contemplated large scale divestiture. The transaction further transforms our portfolio to concentrate in more stable, secular, higher growth and higher margin end markets.

Speaker 1

As you can see on Slide 4, our transformation actions have significantly strengthened our balance sheet, Increased our financial flexibility and position the company to continue to generate shareholder value through disciplined capital allocation. Following the M and M sale, we acted quickly in accelerating return of capital to shareholders. We authorized a new $5,000,000,000 share repurchase program in November and launch an accelerated share repurchase transaction for $3,250,000,000 of common stock, allowing the retirement of about 39,000,000 common shares in the 4th quarter. We anticipate completing this ASR in the Q3 of 2023 and plan to execute share repurchases under the planned remaining authorization as soon as we can. In the quarter, we also retired $2,500,000,000 of long term debt, which was due to mature in November 2023 And reduced our commercial paper balance to 0 as of year end.

Speaker 1

The long term debt retirement, reduced refinancing risk and generate pre tax annualized interest expense savings of approximately $100,000,000 We also announced today an increase in our quarterly dividend of $0.36 per share or a 9% increase versus last year. Going forward, we continue to target a dividend payout ratio of between 35% 45% and expect to increase our dividend annually Alongside earnings growth, in total we deployed more than $7,500,000,000 of capital in 2022 Through significant share repurchases, deleveraging and dividend payments, which reflects our overall balanced capital allocation strategy. We exited the year in a favorable balance sheet and liquidity position, and we look to further allocate excess capital over time The MaxOne value creation through both opportunistic M and A and incremental share repurchases. Our M and A focus remains on targets that fit within our growth pillars and are aligned with key secular growth trends that we have highlighted. Further, our disciplined approach to portfolio management will ensure that DuPont focuses on growing businesses where we are the best strategic owner.

Speaker 1

Regarding the Delaware sale process, we continue to advance our internal work required to divest the business. We are being prudent with the deal process to ensure suitable market conditions and still expect to have a completed sale in 2023. Finally, we also continue to invest internally in innovation and incremental operating capacity To fuel and support our organic growth, in 2023, we expect to allocate CapEx at about 5% of sales As we wrap up some larger scale projects this year and we target R and D spending at about 4% of sales On a consolidated basis, longer term, investing differentially within our business lines based on growth potential. Turning to Slide 5 before I hand it over to Lori, I want to thank our teams who remain focused on operational execution In a difficult environment, which allowed us to produce solid revenue and earnings growth this past year. I also want to thank our teams for the continued efforts made during 2022 in transforming our portfolio.

Speaker 1

We are excited about the longer term growth potential of our business in its newly constituted form, centered around the secular high growth Our end market mix is notably tilted towards electronics at about 1 third of our portfolio. Within electronics, we have a key presence in consumer based end markets, mainly chips, films, displays And printed circuit board materials used in smartphones, PCs and tablets. The bulk of our remaining electronics exposure is in areas such as data centers and telecommunications as well as industrial and automotive applications, primarily consumables used in the semiconductor chip manufacturing process. Despite short term volume pressure, We are pleased with our electronics market position and confident this exposure will help generate strong growth over time. Our presence in electronics is enviable with higher margins versus the company average and in a solid competitive position across the key products we supply.

Speaker 1

Likewise, our water business at 12% of our portfolio operates in markets that are expected to grow mid to high single digits, driven by the global response to concerns such as water scarcity and circularity. Additionally, our participation in the auto market At about 13% of sales, it's much more connected to high growth advanced technologies, enabling long term secular trends Like hybrid and electric vehicles for items such as battery applications, a solid portion of our other exposure is aligned to EVs, which are growing at a significant pace. Given these and our equally strong market positions in many other end markets, Including within our Protection and Industrial Technologies pillars, we believe that our financial results over time We'll bear out the view that the new DuPont will grow and generate returns on par with the best industrial assets in the public markets. In response to near term short cycle end market slowing expected in the first half of twenty twenty three, We have been doing scenario planning for some time now and are proactively taking actions within our control to minimize Volume impacts on margins. As a result, we expect to be able to show the resiliency of the new DuPont portfolio this year.

Speaker 1

I look forward to providing you with updates as we progress through 2023. With that, let me turn it over to Lori to review our financial performance and outlook.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Ed, and good morning. The quality of our portfolio was highlighted this quarter as strong top line results across the majority of our business lines execution drove solid 4th quarter earnings growth and operating EBITDA margin expansion against the prior year period. Turning to our financial highlights on Slide 6. 4th quarter net sales of $3,100,000,000 decreased 4% as reported And increased 5% on an organic basis versus the year ago period. Global currency volatility resulted in a 5% headwind from U.

Speaker 2

S. Dollar strength against key currencies, most notably the yen, yuan and euro. We also saw a 4% portfolio headwind driven by the impact Breaking down the 5% organic sales growth, 7% pricing gains were partially offset by 2% volume declines. Continued strength in water solutions and over 20% volume gains in auto adhesives were more than offset by further softening in smartphones and personal computing within interconnect solutions, a slowdown in semiconductor and construction markets, as well as continued lower year over year volume from Tyvek Protective Garments within Safety Solutions. As we exited the year, we saw lower volumes in areas we have highlighted with total December organic sales up 2% year over year, including down high single digits in China driven by acceleration of COVID disruption and low single digit organic sales growth in the U.

Speaker 2

S. And Canada due to muted demand in construction and destocking by customers. From an earnings perspective, operating EBITDA of $758,000,000 Increased 1% versus the year ago period despite currency headwinds and the impact of portfolio. Organic earnings growth Was driven by pricing and disciplined cost control, which more than offset inflationary cost pressure and lower volumes, including the impact of production rates. Operating EBITDA margin during the quarter of 24.4 percent increased 120 basis points versus the year ago period.

Speaker 2

Adjusted EPS in the quarter of $0.89 per share increased 16%, which I'll detail shortly. Cash used in operations during the quarter of $126,000,000 less capital expenditures of $185,000,000 And transaction related adjustments totaling $213,000,000 resulted in a free cash outflow of 98,000,000 The transaction related adjustments consist of $163,000,000 termination fee related to the Intended Rogers acquisition with the remainder from a tax prepayment for the M and M divestiture. Further headwinds to free cash flow during the quarter included transaction costs related to closing the M and M deal of about $200,000,000 and an approximately $100,000,000 cash outflow related to prepaid accounts payable in advance of the M and M deal closing, which was subsequently reimbursed to us at closing and reported as an inflow within investing activities. I call out these items to provide visibility into our underlying cash flow performance. Additionally, free cash flow included a working capital benefit During the quarter of about $120,000,000 related to inventory reductions, resulting both from our productivity efforts And from our decision to slow production in certain lines of business given the lower volume environment.

Speaker 2

Turning to Slide 7. Adjusted EPS for the quarter of $0.89 per share increased 16% compared to $0.77 per share in the year ago period. The strong EPS growth came primarily from below the line items as organic earnings from our ongoing businesses We're mostly offset by the absence of earnings from non core divestitures as well as currency headwinds. Ongoing share repurchase continues to drive earnings Per share growth providing a $0.07 benefit to adjusted EPS. Lower net interest expense provided a $0.05 benefit to adjusted EPS, driven by both interest income resulting from additional cash on hand from the M and M divestiture and also lower interest expense resulting from the pay down of $2,500,000,000 of senior notes during the quarter.

Speaker 2

Our tax rate for the quarter was 22.2%, up notably from 18.6% in the year ago period, resulting in a $0.06 tax headwind to adjusted EPS, driven primarily by geographic mix of earnings and currency. Our full year base tax rate for 2022 was 23.2 percent and our 2023 outlook Assumes a base tax rate in the range of 23% to 24%. Turning to Slide 8. Just to note a few metrics on our full year basis. Net sales of $13,000,000,000 in 2022 increased 4% for the full year.

Speaker 2

On an organic basis, full year sales increased 8% due to a 7% increase in price and a 1% increase in volume. W and P and ENI delivered organic sales growth of 11% and 5%, respectively, and net sales in all four regions increased organically. Further, we delivered high single digits or better organic sales growth In 5 of our six lines of business as well as in the retained businesses within corporate led by Auto Adhesives. Interconnect Solutions was the only business line down organically due to the slowdown in smartphones and personal computing since last summer. Full year operating EBITDA of $3,260,000,000 increased 3% due primarily to volume gains As pricing gains were mostly offset by continued pressure associated with higher raw material, logistics and energy costs, Operating EBITDA margin was flat at 25.1 percent inclusive of price cost headwinds of about 150 basis points.

Speaker 2

Full year adjusted EPS of $3.41 per share increased 12% versus 2021. The increase was driven by a lower share count from share repurchases, higher segment earnings and lower net interest expense, which was partially offset by a higher tax rate. Cash flow from operations for the year of 588,000,000 Less capital expenditures of $743,000,000 and transaction related adjustments totaling $328,000,000 for items that I mentioned earlier, resulted in free cash flow for the year of $173,000,000 Full year discrete headwinds included in free cash flow totaled about $650,000,000 which mainly reflect transaction costs. Turning to segment results, beginning with ENI on Slide 9. ENI 4th quarter net sales decreased 8% as organic sales declined 2%, along with currency and portfolio headwinds of 5% and 1%, respectively.

Speaker 2

The organic sales decline reflects a 5% decrease in volume, partially offset by a 3% increase in average price. The organic sales decrease for E and I was led by a 10 decline in interconnect solutions driven by volume linked to further weakening in smartphone, PC and tablet demand, along with channel inventory destocking and the negative impact of COVID related disruptions in China. In Semiconductor Technologies, Lower volumes resulted from reduced semi fab utilization rates due to weaker end market demand, along with channel inventory destocking. End market weakness was seen mainly in smartphones and personal computing. In Industrial Solutions, Volumes were muted as lower demand in consumer printing and weakness in LED silicones for conventional lighting in China More than offset ongoing strength in broad based industrial end markets, including Best Sell product lines in aerospace and for applications in healthcare markets.

Speaker 2

Operating EBITDA for ENI of $407,000,000 decreased 4% in the quarter as volume declines were partially offset by disciplined cost control with operating EBITDA margin up 150 basis points from the year ago period. For the full year, ENI net sales of $5,900,000,000 increased 7% versus 2021, Up 5% on an organic basis as a portfolio benefit from last year's Laird acquisition was partially offset by currency headwinds. Organic sales growth for the year of 5% consisted of a 3% increase in volume and a 2% increase in price. From a line of business view, organic sales growth was led by Semi Tech up low double digits and Industrial Solutions up high single digits, partially offset by mid single digit declines in interconnect solutions related to weakness in smartphones and personal computing end markets during the second half of twenty twenty two. Full year operating EBITDA of $1,800,000,000 increased 4% as volume gains A full year of earnings associated with the Laird acquisition and higher pricing more than offset inflationary cost pressure and weaker mix in Internet.

Speaker 2

Turning to Slide 10. W and P 4th quarter net sales increased 6% as organic sales growth of 12% Was partially offset by a 6% currency headwind. Organic growth reflects broad based pricing actions taken across the segment to offset cost inflation as Organic sales growth was led by Water Solutions, which increased over 20% on strong global demand for water technologies led by reverse osmosis membrane as well as capacity increases and pricing gains. Water continues to be an area of consistent strength with long term top line growth expectations in the mid to high single digit. Sales for Safety Solutions were up high single digits on an organic basis as pricing actions were somewhat offset by lower tieback volumes given the demand shift from garments to other applications and the resulting impact of line changeovers on production efficiency.

Speaker 2

Excluding the year over year garment headwinds, total WP volumes increased approximately 2% in the quarter. In Shelter Solutions, sales were up high single digits on an organic basis as pricing gains were partially offset by volume declines, primarily in North America Construction. Operating EBITDA for W and P of $360,000,000 increased 11% as Pricing actions and disciplined cost control more than offset inflationary cost pressure and currency headwinds $1,000,000,000 increased 7% versus 2021 as organic growth of 11% is partially offset by a 4% currency headwind. Organic sales growth for the year consisted of a 12% increase in price, slightly offset by a 1% volume decline. Excluding the year over year garment headwinds, total WP volumes increased 2% for the year.

Speaker 2

From a line of business view, organic sales growth was driven by mid teens growth in Shelter Solutions, low teens growth in Water Solutions and high single digit growth in Safety Solutions. Full year operating EBITDA of $1,400,000,000 increased 3% as higher pricing and disciplined costs more than offset inflationary cost pressure as well as currency headwinds. I'll close with a few comments on our financial outlook and guidance for 2023 on Slide 11. We expect solid top line growth trends to continue into 2023 in businesses such as Water and Auto Adhesives as well as stable demand across diversified industrial end markets, including aerospace and healthcare. We do however anticipate lower volumes During the first half of twenty twenty three in consumer electronics and semiconductors resulting from decreased consumer spending, Inventory destocking and COVID related impacts in China, largely within E and I.

Speaker 2

We also expect Ongoing softness in construction end markets within W and P during 2023. For the Q1 of 2023, We anticipate continued weakness in these consumer driven short cycle end markets, resulting in a 1st quarter net sales expectation of about $2,900,000,000 Or down mid single digits on an organic basis versus the year ago period. As 2023 progresses, Where the printed circuit board market has been down since mid-twenty 22, we anticipate that channel destocking and customer production rates Within Semiconductor Technologies, fab utilization rates are also expected to bottom during the first This year and improve around midyear. As a result of these assumptions, coupled with expectation of improvement in China across our product lines, We expect full year 2023 net sales to be between $12,300,000,000 $12,900,000,000 In response to the expected lower volume environment, we are focused on minimizing decremental margin impacts. To achieve this, we are focused on the operational levers within our control, including appropriate actions to increase productivity at our plant sites, For Q1 2023, we expect operating EBITDA of about 710,000,000 For full year 2023, we expect operating EBITDA to be between $3,000,000,000 $3,300,000,000 I think the whole full year operating EBITDA margin flat at the midpoint of the ranges provided compared to last year.

Speaker 2

These same midpoints imply a decremental margin of 27% for the full year, despite a mix headwind resulting from volume pressure in our higher Margin Business, mainly semi. Our first quarter adjusted EPS expectation of about $0.80 per share And full year adjusted EPS guidance range of between $3.50 $4 per share assumes continued growth from below the line benefits related to a lower share count and lower interest expense. The midpoint of our full year adjusted EPS guidance implies growth of 10% versus last year, driven by these benefits from our ongoing capital allocation strategy. With that, we are pleased to take your questions. And let me turn it back to the operator to open the Q and A.

Operator

We ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Your first question comes from the line of Scott Davis from Melius Research. Your line is open.

Speaker 3

Hey, good morning, everybody.

Speaker 4

Good morning, Scott.

Speaker 3

Let's if you don't mind,

Speaker 5

I'd love to get a little bit more color on the inventory levels. When you think about I mean, 2 different businesses really with the interconnect And the semiconductor side, but how high did inventories get, meaning kind of how above normal were they And where would you characterize them today versus where perhaps they were maybe a quarter ago?

Speaker 1

Yes. So, ICS, As Laurie just mentioned, Scott, that started its downturn actually mid middle of 2022. So That's been going through it downturn. Now by the way, it's obviously lower demand. And a lot of that lower demand, by the way, is China related Lower demand because of COVID and lockdowns and all that.

Speaker 1

And so we have talked to our 10 largest PCB Customers mainly in China and it looks like they're going to begin their ramp in the second quarter. We're thinking more the middle of 2nd quarter and maybe to give you a couple of numbers behind it, their PCB fabs usually run-in the high 70% utilization rate. They've been they're all a little bit different, but they've been running kind of between 40% 60% and they expect The second half of the second quarter would be kind of up to 60% to 65% and then ramp up from there. So that's what we're getting granularly on the Ground, and of course smartphones are supposed to pick up in 2023 from last year. And remember, smartphones in China We're down 20% last year.

Speaker 1

So it was just a big down. I mean nobody none of the consumers were shopping. So I think just China coming back on its own From kind of this artificial COVID thing alone is going to help with demand. And remember, we're high on electronics in that market in general. So I think we'll see a boost there.

Speaker 1

And then if we're right with our customers on the PCB side, we'll start seeing that in the middle of the second quarter. And then on the semi side, I think that's pretty public knowledge, but those fabs were all running kind of 95 They're now running in the low 80s. Now remember a lot of that is destocking going on. Most of the chip guys Are saying the down the biggest down quarter is the Q1. We think it's the 1st and second quarter.

Speaker 1

So In our planning, as Laurie mentioned, that's what we plan that we start seeing our ramp towards the end of the second quarter. And if you look at the MSI data, It's kind of minus 10 and then minus 12 first the second quarter, and then it improves and gets Actually positive in the Q4 and then of course will our demand will happen slightly before that MSI number. So I think we the way we laid it out Sequencing it properly. And by the way, maybe just to give you the rest of the landscape, the way we put 'twenty three together, we plan that the construction markets will be down all of 2023 and then pretty much every other business we have, all the industrial businesses will be stable in 2023 and the water business To grow mid to high single digits. So that's kind of a lay of the land to how we put it together.

Speaker 2

Yes. If I can just add too, we referenced that a market research Inventory index for semi, to get an understanding of what inventory exists in the channel. And right now, usually it says Kind of goes into surplus mode when the inventory index is above 1.2. We're looking to be in that, butting up against the 1.2 as we close The Q1 and then the Q2 to our earlier point is the peak where it gets a little bit higher than 1.2 and then it starts to come back down. For reference back at the last semi downturn in the late 20 eighteen-twenty 19 down frame, it was much higher.

Speaker 2

So it doesn't feel like we have the same dynamics going on as what we had Ben, there does feel like there is more in the channel than where we were definitely last year at this time, we were kind of at a below one level with respect to the inventory index.

Speaker 3

Okay. I'm going to stick

Speaker 5

to one question. That's the main issue for me. Thank you and best of luck for your questions.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Scott. Good to hear from you.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Tusa from JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hey guys, good morning.

Speaker 4

Hey, good morning, Steve.

Speaker 6

So just looking at the guide, I think you guys have like $0.60 or something like that of tailwinds off of the 3.40 base kind of gets you just above $4 The low end of the range at $350,000,000 just seems like what's embedded in the low end of that $350,000,000 range? I feel like the math gets us So something a little bit higher, at least at the low end.

Speaker 2

Yes. So the low end on both the top and bottom line really assumes not much Improvement coming out of Q1. So it's a little bit mainly driven by seasonality, but not a lot of recovery in the end markets that we had So it is more on that pessimistic side. We believe a lot of the indicators that we're seeing in the conversations that we're having with our Customers would suggest that wouldn't come to fruition, but we wanted to bucket it on the low end just to be cautious.

Speaker 4

Yes, I mean, Steve, it

Speaker 1

would be more like a global So we're just bracketing it, but I would point you to the midpoint of our guidance as we're obviously trying to zero in at.

Speaker 6

Yes, that's where we are anyway. I saw some news on unemployment contract. I've got a lot going on this morning. Can you just maybe give us a little bit of color there for you.

Speaker 1

Yes, Steve. So I had a contract in place. I think it was a 3 year contract that ends at the end of this 2023 Calendar year and a question I get pretty frequently from investors is that your retirement date because that's when your contract expires. So The Board and I wanted to take that off the table. I'm going to continue employment after the end of the year and I don't need a contract anymore Some of the stipulations were back in it from the DowDuPont days.

Speaker 1

And so I'm just an at will employee, but excited to continue after the end of the year.

Speaker 6

Okay, great. Thanks a lot guys.

Speaker 4

Thanks, Steve.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Thank you and good morning everyone. You guys had really strong pricing in 2022, obviously, To get after that $800,000,000 of inflation, how do we think about that price cost relationship in 'twenty three? Presumably, there'll be parts of your business We'll hopefully see some deflation, and then maybe wages and stuff are still a headwind. But how should we be thinking about carryover Pricing into 'twenty three and how you'll manage pricing where you might see some deflation?

Speaker 1

Yes. So we haven't seen any Positive impact yet in our numbers, but I would expect on the logistics and freight side, maybe we'll Start to see something towards the end of the second quarter there. We've baked very little into our 2023 business plan for any benefit from price cost a little bit is in the second half of the year, but not much When we start to see it, we'll highlight it obviously and look at our forecast again. But I mean, obviously, it looks like some of these roles are Going to start to come down here and again see some benefit from the extreme freight rates of the middle of last year. But again, we've baked very little of that in

Speaker 2

Yes. And from a price carryover price perspective, we do see a little bit in Q1 in the low single digit range and then it pretty well wanes as we lap. The significance of the price increases that we drove happened in Q1 of last year. So you'll pretty well lap that in the Q1.

Speaker 7

Okay. And then Laurie, just a follow-up. Do you have a sort of rough guide for free cash flow conversion for 'twenty three? I mean, it's very clear there was a lot of moving parts and noise in the 'twenty two number, but how are you thinking about 'twenty three at this point?

Speaker 2

Yes. Obviously, 2022, as you had mentioned, was noisy with the transaction costs, coupled also With the supply chain environment that caused us to hold more inventory than what we normally would. So we don't see that repeating obviously on the transaction side From that perspective and the working capital situation should get better. So we should target to be at that 90% conversion range that we target for the full company. So you can use kind of the midpoint of EPS guide that we had provided and back calculate into a number, making sure that you contemplate that $150,000,000 to $200,000,000 in transaction costs that are primarily associated with some straggling care over from the M and M separation and then the Delrin divestiture.

Speaker 1

Okay. Thank you very much. And we did start to bring inventory down in the 4th quarter. So we're going to start hopefully trending here Now the supply chains are kind of moving back to sort of normal. Okay, great.

Speaker 1

Good news. Thank you.

Speaker 8

Thanks. Thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Parkinson from Mizuho. Your line is open.

Speaker 9

Great. Thank you so much. You posted pretty solid results, water protection, specifically in water and safety. Can you just go over Some of the guide framework you hit on a lot on E and I. Can you hit on some of the guide framework as it pertains to W and P and just speak about kind of what's driving that and as well as the sustainability as we think throughout 2023 and even into 2024?

Speaker 9

Thank you so much.

Speaker 2

Yes. From an organic basis, we'll continue to see strength within Water. So we had really nice performance in the Water Segment in general in 2022 with organic sales up kind of high single digits and we would expect similar performance this year. The one end market that will be weak for us, as Ed had mentioned is shelter. So in the Q1, we do see, shelter down kind of in the mid teens.

Speaker 2

That will moderate as you go through the year down into the mid single digits potentially on a full year basis, but we don't see a full recovery in shelter within the 2023 timeframe. And then generally in safety, those are industrial end markets for the most part, minus maybe a little bit of de stocking that's happening at some of the Big distributors, that should generally perform in line with industrial production on a full year basis.

Speaker 1

Yes. And on the shelter So I remember there is seasonality in that business. So the Q1 is usually the lowest that we've planned kind of a recession scenario for construction Throughout the whole year, but then you will get some seasonality lift as you're in the middle of the year, just naturally off of a tougher bottom, but.

Speaker 9

Got it. That's very helpful. And then you also hit on some remarks regarding just the Delrin Timing and just how

Speaker 6

do we think about that?

Speaker 9

Do you have anything else that you'd be comfortable adding at this time in terms of just the process, where you stand, your confidence level versus a few quarters ago? That would be very helpful. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1

Yes. So we've done all the clean room work. That's all Seth, we've been doing some education on the business externally. If I had to Kind of guess at this point, I think we're going to launch more formally at the end of this quarter that we're now in. We think the markets are better than they were in the 4th quarter.

Speaker 1

There's probably strategic and private So that's why we were being careful on the timing. And so my gut is we'll launch around then and the business looks like it's having a Pretty decent Q1 as we can see it right now. So I think that the timing might be good there and we should be able to wrap up a deal Fairly quickly in that business, it's not that complicated. So that's why we made the comment that we should be able to close that obviously in 2023.

Speaker 9

Very helpful. Thank you so much.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Mike Leithead from Barclays. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Great. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning. First, I just wanted to go back and talk about the Cadence for full year earnings, it sounds like kind of reading between the lines, you're indicating late in 2Q things start to pick up, inflect Electronics and some input deflation.

Speaker 4

So should we model pickups really starting in the second quarter or does the recovery begin more notably in the Q3 in your view?

Speaker 1

You'll get some lift in the second quarter and I would say predominantly because of China Coming back kind of online, if I say it that way. So I would model we've given you the Q1, I would model Some sequential improvement, but the bulk of it would be the 3rd Q4. And again, it lays out, we think, the middle of the second quarter, the ICS business start The fab start ramping up. So most of that benefit you'll see 3rd Q4, a little bit in the second quarter. And then we don't we're not planning on semi Picking up until the Q3, maybe it will happen in the middle of Q2, but somewhere in that zip code.

Speaker 1

And so you get a little bit of China Uplift maybe a little on ICS, but again planning mostly Q3 for that, maybe a little on semi, but again planning more Q3 for that. So I think you can kind of build that out to get to kind of maybe our midpoint that we've guided to for the year.

Speaker 4

Great. That's super helpful. And then quickly just second question just on M and A. We've seen a few Transactions start to pick up a bit as of late. Can you just talk about what you're seeing from the potential acquisition side?

Speaker 4

Yes, we're looking at a couple

Speaker 1

of things we've been interested in. My gut is we will do a bolt on acquisition this But that's not a given. We're in no rush. We want to get it at the right price. So we'll see, but we're definitely Looking and zeroed in on a couple of things, but I put them more in the bolt on size from a spend category and it would Clearly being one of our growth pillars where we have the expertise and what we really want to do is pick up innovation in R and D and technologies in core areas

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Aleksey Yefremov from KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. In you

Speaker 1

and I, you're discussing several new products launched in both interconnect and Semiconductor Technologies. So wonder, how are your customers looking at adoption of new technologies? Things like New notes for your fab customers, is it getting pushed out or is this healthy interaction on that?

Speaker 2

No, I mean the interactions still remain very robust and they're a key portion of our out delivery of of top line growth, especially within semi. So we would still expect that 200 to 300 basis point outperformance versus the end markets, and the Discussions are still very frequent and common for us to be able to continue to drive that relationship.

Speaker 1

Yes, I mean, and let's keep in mind that when the semi thing picks up for the second half of the year on, the next decade looks Pretty incredible for the semi business. You see all the announcements on the fabs. Almost all of these fabs are the denser, smaller high end And that's why we, as Laurie just mentioned, we get the 200 to 300 basis point overgrowth from the market, is because we get to participate more and more On the advanced node side, so the outlook, we're going to have a couple of softer quarters here, but the outlook over the next decade is Pretty incredible in this space. So we stay very much up on the R and D and we're very close to the top semiconductor customers doing design and work with them.

Speaker 10

Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Josh Spector from UBS. Your line is open.

Speaker 11

Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Just your guidance doesn't appear to really factor in any further buybacks beyond the ASR you have ongoing. If you could talk about your willingness to either deploy that additional $2,000,000,000 on top of the ASR immediately following, how you're thinking about when that plays into your framework?

Speaker 2

Yes. So the guide does contemplate starting potentially another ASR when this was one is complete at like the beginning of 4th quarter. So our guidance that we provided for EPS has a reduction in the full year versus the Q1 outlook and that reflects Getting started on that second tranche of $2,000,000,000 that we have remaining on the authorization. But we also have the ability to still purchase over the top on the existing ASR We feel it prudent. So we have some volume that we can purchase as needed while the current ASR is open.

Speaker 2

Generally, you try to keep your volume under 15% of daily purchases so that you don't work against yourself and our current contracts on the ASR allow us to do a little Over at the top.

Speaker 1

Josh, as a reminder, Page 16 of our slide deck has some additional modeling guidance, including share count, but don't miss the fact that we took Quite a few shares out in the 4th quarter associated with the ASR that was enacted in mid November. So you may have been missing that effect in the Q4 and then the guide for 23 on the year over year.

Speaker 11

Got it. Appreciate that. And just Ed, I guess, to follow-up on the contract you have in place to keep going beyond this year. I guess it's become a bigger question for investors around long term transition planning. So I guess where would you say you and the Board are in terms of thinking about Kind of the next step for DuPont, maybe it's multiple years out, but where are we in that process?

Speaker 1

Yes, the Board is well aware of Internal candidates being developed and continuing to go through their career. So the Board is Clearly aware of who internally is an option for the next CEO role, but we're also not at that point, but we do discuss it regularly in the development plans for the internal candidates. So I'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 11

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Yes. Thanks, John.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Roberts from Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

Speaker 12

Thank you. Ed, you didn't mention the U. S. China trade technology restrictions including the new Huawei controls, is that an immaterial issue for DuPont?

Speaker 1

Yes, it's $50,000,000 John, the reason we didn't imagine, I know we mentioned it last quarter, but it's about $50,000,000 to $60,000,000 of revenue. So it's not that significant, although we did bake that obviously into our forecasting that we did. And so whether you can take that is You can extract that down to EBITDA. It's not that big in the scheme of things, but that's definitely in place, yes.

Speaker 2

Yes. And that's on the semi side. On the direct Huawei exposure, there's really not much there. So we don't have exposure there.

Speaker 1

Right. That 50 to 60 is semi.

Speaker 8

Yes.

Speaker 12

And remind us when the first PFAS trial is scheduled and any update on the negotiations there?

Speaker 1

Yes. John, it's scheduled in June of this year and we have ongoing Conversations for settlement, by the way, I think having a the judge appointed a mediator, I think that was around the time we did last earnings call, I remember, and I would say that's very helpful to the process. So, I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Arun Viswanathan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is

Speaker 3

open. Thanks for taking my question. Just kind of understanding kind of the back half cadence, what you'll be exiting the year on. So if If you think about the guidance you offered, does it look like maybe the back half is kind of at a run rate basis, maybe at the upper end or Maybe at the middle end of the range, say Q3, Q4 averaging close to $1 or And what is it going to take to really get to that kind of level of earnings power? Is it mainly a macro recovery or are there other levers within your control that You can leverage.

Speaker 3

Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes. So you're pretty well spot on, on the second half EPS trajectory and it really It's all impinging upon the pace of the recovery in the end markets that we highlighted. So seeing the semi destock and the demand return, Seeing the smartphone and consumer electronic destock stop and the demand return and then obviously the continued China reopening will have a positive Impact on our business, so that impacted us in December and it will impact us on Q1 as they continue their reopening. But remember, we've got 20 Percent of our sales into China. So a nice opportunity as they continue to recover from the full COVID lockdown.

Speaker 2

So it's really the shift between the first half and the second half is really all from the top line and the expected recovery will be there.

Speaker 1

Yes. And you do get this

Speaker 3

is Chris.

Speaker 1

You do get a nice lift in margins and it benefits from mix in part. I mean as E and I Comes back, remember you've got a nice margin lift. So you're kind of in the mid-24s on a margin in the first half and then you're up in the low to mid 25 in the second half, again benefiting from that mix and the timing of that E and I rebound from first half to second So you end up averaging the overall margins for the year end up being relatively flat, but there's a nice lift On a run rate basis when you're in the second half there.

Speaker 3

And just as a follow-up then, if you look at 2024, you will be Easier comps, especially in the first half in E and I. Do we return kind of to a double digit EPS growth rate In 2024, again, would you be inclined to increase the repurchase activity to reach that level if needed? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes, I mean, I think it's a little early to start looking at 2024. Obviously, this year, we've got nice EPS growth from the capital allocation decisions that And we'll see that carry into 2024 as well because the second piece of the existing authorization really won't We put in place until the Q4, so you won't get the full benefit on a full year basis from that. But yes, in a normal environment, We should drive really nice top and bottom line growth. We've got end markets that would suggest in total you would be in that mid single digit range on the top line if they perform in a normal macro perspective. And then I think we've proven that we do a really nice job of driving margin improvement and leverage across the P and L.

Speaker 2

So we wouldn't see any material change there from that dynamic.

Speaker 3

Thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 10

Hi, good morning, Ed and team. This is Bhavesh Lodaya for John. In your guide, you have a cautious outlook on the construction end markets pretty much throughout the year. Is there a way to quantify what the year over year EBITDA impact is from the downturn? And then I realize it's early, but when do you expect to get more clarity on On a potential trajectory of recovery there?

Speaker 2

Yes. So for the shelter segment, it's about 13% of sales and we had mentioned on a full year basis, we would expect that to be down mid single digits and we've sized the EBITDA margin profile of Shelter as below the W and P segment average. So I think we've given you several data points there that you can Back into what we believe the EBITDA headwind will be to W and P and the total company from shelter in 2023.

Speaker 10

And then you highlighted cost yes, sorry, please.

Speaker 2

No, go ahead.

Speaker 10

You highlighted cost control measures initiated during the Q4 and those clearly helped from the margin perspective. Is there a way to quantify the benefit? And do you need to do more of these in 2023 or maybe what's built into your guide around these?

Speaker 2

Yes. So we took cost out in the 4th quarter. We opened a restructuring program and under the restructuring program we took about a $60,000,000 charge. And a lot of that was to get after the stranded costs that we saw coming out of the completion of the M and M divestiture and there also were some actions In the business as they look to drive productivity. So we've got further room under the restructuring program if we would need it To be able to continue to drive margin and the decremental margin that we target.

Speaker 2

As of now, there's nothing planned or baked into the guide incrementally, but we have the flexibility if we need to.

Speaker 10

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Mike Sison from Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hey, good morning guys. Nice end of the year. In terms of your outlook for construction, Are you hearing from your customers now that their backlogs are really weak at the end of the second half? Or is it just more planning for difficult environment that with high interest rates and such?

Speaker 1

Yes, it's just planning at this point. And by the way, Not to get overly optimistic, I heard a couple of homebuilders during this last quarter actually reported numbers that were kind of nicely better than were With decent backlog actually. So I think it's mixed out there. I think certain regions of the Country, if you look at the detail, are doing better in construction, some of the Southeast and Southwest areas. But Having said that, again, we're also in a deleveraging mode here right now.

Speaker 1

And remember, some of our Construction materials go into big box for do it yourself stuff and there is clearly destocking going on there. So that part of it will end. But We've just planned look with interest rates where they are at the macro on the shelter business right now, just assume the whole year Stays at about the level it's at and Laurie mentioned the percentages. So I think it's just prudent planning on our part.

Speaker 8

Right. And then for ENI, you do it does seem like you need some volume growth in the second half to At the midpoint, how much of that is from new products and some of your innovation that you've done and maybe wins on new nodes and memory.

Speaker 1

Well, let me just give you overall, our new products are You know that have been launched in the last few years are like 30% of our sales. So we track that very, very closely. We're constantly bringing out New versions, I would say, of our technology all the time. And that's what keeps us ahead of the pack on, for instance, the advanced nodes and semi So it's constantly happened, but I wouldn't say that it's not going to have a material effect on where our revenue ends up. That's just a month

Speaker 2

Yes, I think I mean back to the outperformance that we highlight. So currently the full year MSI Expectations are in the down mid single digit range, obviously, very dramatically by the quarters with the Q1 starting at it It's down kind of low double digits, but our expectations opposite that full year down low single digit MSI number Our down mid single digit MSI number would be to be down low single digits. So we would still expect that outperformance. That outperformance By the innovation engine that we have that allows us to be able to be more exposed to the high end nodes, and continuing to build relationships with

Speaker 1

And that again, that low mid single digits for MSI is very negative in the Q1 and builds during the year and gets Positive in the back half of the year, which we believe that also having talked to our semi customers.

Speaker 8

Got it. Thank

Speaker 3

you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Speaker 13

Thank you. Ed and Laurie, how should we think in E and I, how should we think about incremental margins in the back half of the year?

Speaker 2

Yes, we would expect in the back half of the year the overall EBITDA margins to be more in that 31 ish percent range that We would expect from the E and I perspective. So they will be a little bit muted in the first half and we would expect a return from the EBITDA margin profile in the second half.

Speaker 13

So what does that imply for incrementals in the back half of the year, mid-30s or higher?

Speaker 2

A little higher, yes. Mid 30s, maybe upper 30s incremental margins. They shouldn't be too different than Obviously, the gross margin you would see within the E and I segment.

Speaker 13

Understood. And just in W and P, what drives earnings higher in 2023?

Speaker 2

I mean, I think if you see a little bit of deflation that would drive earnings higher. We had mentioned in 2020 2, in the current expectation for 2023, there is about 100 basis point headwind from net price cost. We haven't baked any material benefit in from that perspective. So that would be one tailwind that would help to drive the EBITDA margins higher. And then the other would just come from within E and I mix enrichment, So that quicker recovery in summary, that's obviously our highest margin segment.

Speaker 2

So that would help us well to drive the E and I margins.

Speaker 4

Thank you.

Operator

And our last question comes from the line of Frank Mitsch from Fermium Research. Your line is open.

Speaker 12

Thank you so much for squeezing me in under the wire. I appreciate the granularity on China, your That you're going to see a pickup by the mid second quarter. Just curious, what are you seeing here real time post Chinese New Year in turn of economic activity there?

Speaker 2

Yes, I mean, obviously, we can see January results are a little hard to see through given the timing of Lunar New Year. So this year, it Full in January last year, it was full in February, so it makes a little bit different from a year over year comp perspective. But, the reopening is definitely happening. Right now, I think the benefit of the reopening is more on the essential side. So spend is more towards those essential needs and We would need it to obviously tend over to the discretionary needs that we would expect to see as you get further into the first half.

Speaker 2

But definitely, The lockdown appears to be well behind them and returning to some form of normalcy.

Speaker 12

Very helpful. And if I could stick to the Geographic theme, your year over year volume declines in Europe moderated from the Q3 here in the Q4. So I'm just curious as to What are you seeing on the ground in that part of the world? And what are your expectations are for 2023 over in Europe?

Speaker 2

Yes. So Europe does feel a little bit better as they get the concerns around the access to energy behind them. And obviously, the energy rates It's our tailwind for everybody. So you've seen a really material pullback in the European natural gas rates. And so we're cautiously optimistic on Europe and the continued Benefit there for a full year basis, we're still generally flat for overall volumes in Europe.

Speaker 2

We'll see how that trends as the year plays out.

Speaker 1

Very well. Thank you. Very well. Thank you. Very well.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 4

Very

Speaker 1

well. Thank you.

Operator

And this ends our question and answer session. Mr. Chris MacRae, I turn the call back over to you for some final closing comments.

Speaker 1

Yes. Thanks everybody for joining our call. We appreciate your participation and for your reference, our transcript will be posted on our website. This does conclude our call. Thank you.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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