Polaris Q1 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
April 25, 2023

Key Takeaways

  • Polaris reported a 22% increase in Q1 sales, a 172 bps expansion in adjusted EBITDA margin and a 55% rise in adjusted EPS, fueled by favorable net pricing, mix benefits and off-road restocking.
  • Dealer inventories are near optimal—about 20% below 2019 levels—helping restore normal seasonality and supporting a year-over-year increase in April retail despite a muted start to spring.
  • Demand is mixed: utility off-road vehicles remain resilient, recreational off-road is soft, and the high end of off-road, on-road and marine segments continues to outperform with premium products.
  • The company launched several new offerings—including the redesigned RZR XP, all-electric Ranger XP Kinetic and electric Mighty-G pontoon—all receiving positive initial feedback.
  • Full-year guidance is unchanged, with modest margin expansion, flat-to-positive sales growth driven by share gains and new product mix, and adjusted EPS expected between –3% and +3%, while monitoring FX, interest rates and promotional trends.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Polaris Q1 2023
00:00 / 00:00

There are 14 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to the Polaris Inc. First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. After today's presentation, There will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note, this event is being recorded.

Operator

I would now like to turn the conference over to J. C. Weigelt, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Gary, and good morning or afternoon, everyone. I'm J. C. Weigelt, Vice President of Investor Relations at Polaris. Thank you for joining us for our 2023 1st Quarter Earnings Call.

Speaker 1

We will reference a slide presentation today, which is accessible on our website at ir.polaris.com. Joining me on the call today are Mike Speetzen, our Chief Executive Officer and Bob Mack, our Chief Financial Officer. Both have prepared remarks summarizing the Q1 as well as our expectations for 2023. Then we'll take your questions. During the call, we will be discussing various topics, which should be considered forward looking for the purpose of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

Speaker 1

Actual results could differ materially from those projections in the forward looking statements. You can refer to our 2022 10 ks for additional details regarding risks and uncertainties. All references to Q1 2023 actual results and 2023 guidance are for our continuing operations and are reported on an adjusted non GAAP Please refer to our Reg G reconciliation schedules at the end of the presentation for the GAAP to non GAAP adjustments. Now, I will turn it over to Mike Speetzen. Go ahead, Mike.

Speaker 2

Thanks, JC. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. This may be a little premature here in Minnesota, but I hope your spring and riding season has opened up from what seemed to be a prolonged winter, Although I can't complain too much as it was helpful to our snowmobile business. I consistently reinforce with my team that the key to a successful year is a strong start And our Q1 results reflect just that. Sales were up over 20%, adjusted EBITDA margin expanded 172 basis points and adjusted EPS grew 55% versus last year.

Speaker 2

Sales growth was driven by strong mix and higher ship volumes, Favorable net price, which is price net of promotions, increased share in off road, on road and marine as The restocking benefit mainly in off road that we discussed in January. While North American retail was down 5% versus last year, It increased 14% versus 2019. Our teams and dealers are seeing a return to more normal seasonality. The spring selling season, which continues for the next couple of months, is going to be an important gauge for the remainder of the year. April is off to a good start despite a delayed spring for most of the country given poor weather conditions in early March.

Speaker 2

We saw gross profit and EBITDA margin expansion for the 3rd consecutive quarter as we maintained our focus on process improvements and efficiencies that and drive us closer toward our long term target of mid to high teens EBITDA margins. We executed margin expansion despite factory inefficiencies I shared in January that 2023 is going to be an exciting year and we came out of the gate strong with the launch of the RAZR XP, where we made the industry's best selling side by side even better with more horsepower, Stronger chassis, redesigned ergonomics and added comfort. Initial reviews of this all new razor are very strong And we're excited for deliveries to start later in Q2. We also started production of our first all electric Ranger XP Kinetic, which is now shipping to customers. Our mighty G pontoon, a Godfrey pontoon designed specifically with an electric motor option in mind We'll be entering its 1st selling season and should do well given a very strong order book.

Speaker 2

On Road has its most competitive portfolio of bikes and slingshots ever With a fresh lineup of FTRs, the debut of the Indian Challenger Elite, as well as our Scout and Indian Pursuit lineup. There's certainly a lot to be excited about this year

Speaker 1

Overall, we're off to

Speaker 2

a strong start in 2023. That said, we are closely monitoring external factors that could impact our customers and we remain laser focused on being agile and adaptable should the demand environment change. Now let me share some thoughts related to customer trends that we're seeing. The demand story remains mixed and largely consistent with what we've been seeing over the past couple of quarters. In off road, demand for our utility vehicles remains steady as the use case for these products is less affected by mild fluctuations in the macro environment.

Speaker 2

Recreation remains soft And we expect this to be the case as we progress through 2023 with share gains for us coming from new product launches. We continue to see higher demand for our premium products regardless of category, including Ranger Northstar and Razor Pro R and Turbo R. SnowCheck for model year 2024 hit our target, making it the 3rd best SnowCheck in the past 20 years. And lastly, April retail is off to a very good start. For On Road, we're just now entering the selling season and April has been very encouraging As spring has arrived and our dealers have an extremely competitive lineup of Indian motorcycles and Slingshots.

Speaker 2

In fact, we believe our lineup of bikes has never been more competitive than where we are today. In marine, it was a later than anticipated start due to weather, but the boating season is upon us in many parts of the country and inventory is finally healthy. I was recently on the road visiting some of our marine dealers with our marine team and they told us they've had a successful boat show season, but the Customers seem to be taking longer to make a decision about buying a boat given improved inventory levels. Like our other segments, the high end of the marine market continues to perform well. In addition to customer trends, we also keep a close eye on credit and lending trends that we see with our customers.

Speaker 2

In general, the metrics we monitor remain consistent with past levels. If anything, we're reverting closer to pre pandemic metrics. As normalization within our retail finance continues, the key metrics we follow are average FICO scores, approval rates and penetration, each of which has not deviated materially from data dating back to 2018. Our information comes from our partner banks that are available Our dealers to provide credit to customers. These partner banks finance about 1 quarter of retail purchases and the information we're sharing today comes from that piece of our business And our partnership with these key banks.

Speaker 2

As you've heard me say many times, our relationship with these banks are very important. Because we do not have a captive financing arm, we have minimized credit risk and exposure. These partner banks are well established, Strong and well capitalized, and we are appreciative of our relationship with them and their willingness to work so closely with our dealer network to help make consumer financing available. They are truly allies in our strategy to provide the best customer experience. Lastly, these key partner banks are telling us they want more volume and we're working with our dealers to make this happen.

Speaker 2

Regarding dealer inventory, I'm happy to say that we are in a much healthier position than we've been in a long time. We believe inventory is mostly at our targeted and optimal levels as we enter our prime selling season. We do have a few exceptions and are working to optimize Dealer inventory across all categories. Year over year, the number looks staggering, but remember, we're coming from a point in 2022 Where dealers were starved of inventory given supply chain constraints and our inability to build and deliver enough product. Relative to 2019, inventory is down about 20%.

Speaker 2

We're getting numerous signals from dealers and our own data shows that we're returning closer to a more normal seasonal trend as inventory levels improve. When you look at the average North American retail for off road vehicles, excluding snowmobiles for 2016 through 2019, The Q1 is typically our smallest quarter and we anticipate this to be the case in 2023. Historical performance and seasonality Show that we typically see a sizable jump in retail sequentially from Q1 as the riding season begins and weather improves. We expect this to be the case this year and our April performance The magnitude of the jump in Q2 is expected to be a bit more muted due to a strong start in Q1 as well as some of the macro headwinds. As the chart shows, history would suggest that we would see a sequentially similar third quarter followed by a dip into Q4.

Speaker 2

The bottom line is that our Q1 performance was in line with our expectations and April performance is trending consistent with our expectations. Although challenges remain, our team remains focused on enhancing our internal processes and systems to improve efficiency and delivery. We continue to see ourselves in a strong position to gain share as the year progresses with healthy inventory at the dealers and a big year for innovation and product launches. We also remain vigilant as we assess consumer trends. While nothing has changed significantly compared to the past couple of quarters and our original expectations, Our team remains agile and committed to optimizing the business.

Speaker 2

Finally, we remain committed to delivering on our 5 year strategy and plan to provide a comprehensive update on our progress during our recently announced Institutional Investor and Analyst Day on July 30th. I'll now turn it over to Bob, who will summarize our Q1 performance and provide additional details for the balance of 2023, including guidance and expectations. Bob?

Speaker 3

Thanks, Mike, and good morning or afternoon to everyone on the call today. Our Q1 results kicked off what we believe is going to be a strong year for Polaris Sales grew 22%, driven by a number of factors Mike mentioned earlier, including strong performance from our international business, which grew 16% year over year, overcoming a 5 percentage point drag from currency. On margins, we saw all segments expand gross profit margins over 125 basis points versus q1 2022 with On Road expanding an impressive 330 basis points as that segment continues to execute on its profitability plans. Turning to our Off Road results, sales rose 19% relative to last year to $1,600,000,000 Whole goods Increased 25% with share gains across the board. In snow, we recently concluded the 2022, 2023 season and gained about 1 point a share, which exceeded our expectations given the recalls we had early in the season.

Speaker 3

PG and A results within Off Road were driven by stable retail accessories per unit. Retail trends were consistent with last quarter, while actual industry performance was down in the quarter. Our share gains were driven by outsized gains in ATVs and general side by sides. With healthier inventory across our entire off road portfolio In our innovative offering of new products, we expect share gains to continue throughout the year. Outside of Utility and Recreation, We saw double digit growth in commercial, which continues to have a strong backlog.

Speaker 3

Margin expansion drivers included higher net price and lower cost Premiums offsetting higher warranty costs and finance interests. Switching to On Road, our 3rd straight quarter of share gains were driven by our strong product North American Indian Motorcycle retail was flat year over year, but up 11% relative to 2019. International sales were bolstered by strong Indian motorcycle sales in Australia. It's worth noting our European brands, Exim and GUPIL, Both had record revenue quarter and while facing while they face meaningful headwinds, they continue to drive margin expansion. On Road gross profit margin was up 331 basis points, driven by favorable product mix and higher volumes.

Speaker 3

Moving to our Marine segment, inventory is healthy and we are operating in an environment that feels like pre pandemic times. Sales continue to be driven by consumer preference for more premium boats as well as the pricing actions we took last year. The most recent data we have shows we gained share in marine during the Q1. Dealers believe it was a successful boat show season and while they are optimistic about the upcoming retail season, we are Seeing a return to seasonality in terms of the timing of boat registrations and pickups. Similar to off road, we are currently seeing increased promotional activity, which we believe can positively impact buying patterns as we enter the spring selling season.

Speaker 3

Gross profit margin is up 129 basis points with higher net pricing and favorable product mix being the primary drivers. Moving to our financial position. We continue to see our balance sheet as a competitive advantage. Cash generation in the Q1 was strong relative to previous years and our net leverage ratio We believe we are set up well for a variety of scenarios in the broader market with our balance sheet Cash generation capabilities in 2023. Now let us move to guidance and our expectations for 2023.

Speaker 3

Before giving more details, you should know that our expectations today are the same as they were in January when we first provided 2023 guidance. Broadly speaking, what we are seeing across our segments today is in line with our original expectations. Our first quarter results reflect momentum in sales, Share gains and margin expansion, which should help us achieve our full year goals. Regarding sales, There continues to be a long list of opportunities to achieve our guidance. Mix continues to be a positive and is expected to remain a contributor given the launch cadence we have planned for the remainder of the year.

Speaker 3

Today, our product launch calendar remains on track and we expect a bigger contribution in the back half of the year for mix as those new category defining products enter the channel. We expect to gain share throughout the year with the So even though we anticipate flattish retail industry for the year, We expect to do a bit better as a share gainer. As Mike mentioned earlier, dealer inventory is near optimal levels allowing us to realize the positive share impact we were expecting. We also spoke about Robo's growth in our commercial business and expect that to continue throughout the year, just as we saw in the Q1. Our international and PG and A businesses are expected to be strong contributors to growth this year.

Speaker 3

Offsetting some of these sales drivers are continued headwinds from FX and the return of promotions. We are planning FX conservatively given the volatility in the markets, But should FX rates hold at their current levels, we expect to see a tailwind versus our plan. For margins, We expect modest margin expansion at the adjusted gross profit and EBITDA lines. Drivers continue to include volume and mix along with our expectation that input costs will decline throughout the year. While most things are moving in the right direction, we are seeing input costs around steel and diesel rise, But at this point, they are not expected to have an impact on our financial plan for the year.

Speaker 3

It is important to understand that there are many things going right operationally and with our supply chain, It takes time and we expect this journey to continue throughout the year. Adjusted EPS from continuing operations Still expected to be in the range of down 3% to up 3%, with most of the potential drop through from margin expansion being consumed by a higher interest rate expense. For the Q2, a couple of things to note. We are seeing seasonality return, but not yet in line with historical patterns, which usually translates into a sizable sequential ramp in shipments and sales in the Q2. We do not expect the material ramp in our Q2 sales sequentially this year due to the timing of snowmobile shipments, which carried over into our Q1.

Speaker 3

Next, history reflects Approximately 40% of our annual EPS is derived in the first half of the year and we expect this cadence to hold true this year. The negative hit from FX in the 2nd quarter is expected to be in line with what we saw in the Q1 if FX rates stay constant. To wrap up, Q1 results proved to be a strong start of the year. Our expectations for the year remain consistent with our initial thoughts. Although it is happening slower than we thought, we are seeing the supply chain improve.

Speaker 3

With our focus and investment on internal efficiencies and processes, As well as continued progress in the supply chain, we believe there remains a real opportunity to drive margin expansion this year and beyond. We remain excited about the product launches we have for the remainder of the year and believe they can contribute to growth this year as well as future years. We are taking share and are committed to winning through our ability to deliver high quality and innovative products to those that play and work outside. Our teams remain agile as we enter the 2023 selling season and we are in a good spot with inventory. As we close out the Q1, we are grateful to be in this position and excited about the initiatives we are focused on to help deliver our 5 year strategy.

Speaker 3

With that, I'll turn the call over to Gary to open the line up for questions.

Operator

We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question is from Fred Wightman with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Hey, guys. Good morning. Thanks for the question. I just wanted to touch base on the comments Bob made for 2Q and sort of the first half It sounds like that forty-sixty split as far as first half, second half is still the right way to think about the year, but that would also sort of suggest 2Q numbers So can you sort of walk through maybe where we missed things? It sounds like FX might be a little bit of a headwind, but Just sort of the 2Q outlook and then sort of the implied stronger back half of the year given the macro environment?

Speaker 3

Yes, sure, Fred. So right, the forty-sixty split is the right way to think about it. When we Started the year and got into the year, we had expected to ship a bit more of the snow volume in late in December, more of it shipped and was really Revenue recognized in January, February because of some of the recalls we had and holds we had on product. So that sort of knocked the cadence off a little bit. So what you saw was heavier shipments and snow in Q1 With lower side by sides and then you'll see more side by sides in Q2, but you won't see because of the snow shipments that will mask a little bit of that Normal ramp up.

Speaker 3

So I think as we look at it right now, the beat in Q1 really offsets Part of what we would have normally seen in Q2, but it does take the hill to climb for the year down a bit. But that's really the dynamic that's at play.

Speaker 2

The other thing, Fred, to keep in mind is, as I mentioned, the number of new products We've got coming out and the timing of those deliveries really is more weighted into the back half. And aside from the XP, the other products are not What I would term as highly cannibalizing of our existing products. They really target new categories, and so that will obviously be a big part of that second half Ramp up and deliveries.

Speaker 4

Makes sense. And then just to ask about the retail financing landscape, The slide that you guys provided was super helpful, but I'm wondering if you gave this for 1Q. I'm wondering as you moved Throughout the quarter, did you see either FICO scores or approval rates or penetration sort of tip-off in March or maybe if you could comment into April?

Speaker 3

No, I mean, it's the data has been really consistent and consistent with the past and we've talked to all the banks about Where they are with their lending standards, down payments and really that's all remained very consistent across the board. I think you'll continue to see our penetration rates return to kind of more normal 30% plus levels. If there's any slowdown in financing, it's more on the local bank side and that's why we have these partners in place to be able to step up and fill that gap. And Pavel, I've been very aggressive and are very interested in lending more money into the space.

Speaker 2

Our promo, Fred, is Largely aimed at doing rate buy downs to put things back into a more attractive category. And you got to step back and think about who our customers are, And we track that. They've done well over the past few years. Their income levels are up. When you hear about Layoffs and things that are going on in the economy right now, they primarily tend to be centered around the tech areas, which don't Certainly have a high correlation to our customer base.

Speaker 2

So at this point, the customers remain healthy. And as I talked about in my prepared remarks, Once the weather opened up and we've heard this pretty consistently from all of our businesses, we've seen customers And the activity really increasing. So we think the weather had a pronounced impact and I think you're going to see those customers And that's why our retail finance partners are looking to grab an even bigger piece of the business.

Speaker 4

Makes sense. Thanks a lot.

Operator

The next question is from Joe Altobello with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Hey, guys. Good morning. I just want to get some more clarity on Fred's first question actually about your implied guide for Q2. So I understand Why the delayed snowmobile shipments from December to Jan Feb would boost Q1, but I'm a little unclear as to why that would Impact Q2, I mean, were there other pull forwards that you experienced

Speaker 2

in this quarter?

Speaker 3

No. What I was trying to say Is that the snowmobile shipments, if you look at what would have been the normal seasonal ramp from Q1 to Q2, You'd see a bigger ramp, but Q1 was to some degree unusually high if you were thinking normal seasonality relative To history to sort of like a 'nineteen compare because of those snow shipments. And so the sales ramp just looks Lower, but the real dynamic is we'll ship more side by sides and more off road and motorcycles in Q2. You just won't see as big of a revenue pop because we had those snow units in Q1.

Speaker 5

Okay. But it also implies earnings are going to be down year over year in

Speaker 3

Yes, I mean, Q2 last year, everything last year was really driven by Ability to ship. So our Q1 last year was significantly lower from a shipment standpoint than where we were in Q1 This year, so getting into riding season, we had a lot more inventory to try to make up and get in the channel in Q2, whereas this year We're sitting a little bit better because we had better shipments in Q4 and Q1. So that's the dynamic there. We just don't have as much of an Inventory hold to make up in Q2.

Speaker 6

Okay.

Speaker 2

And you're dealing with the effects of foreign exchange and interest rates On top of that, that just pronounced that earnings decline in the Q2 versus last year.

Speaker 5

Got it. Just one last one on April Retail, it sounds like you're pretty positive there. Maybe could you guys quantify for us what that might have looked like?

Speaker 2

You know I'm not going to do that, but I will just tell you that we've been watching it. We obviously watch What retail is doing on a daily basis, we would do it even more frequently if we could. I know our business units do. And as I mentioned earlier, the weather really did suppress things in the early part of March. And once we saw things improving, we saw retail momentum picking up.

Speaker 2

We've had a couple of dealer council meetings, and that has confirmed that viewpoint. The dealers are playing back to us that once the weather Customers started coming back into the dealerships. I think the buying process is definitely a little bit different Given that there's inventory availability and with higher interest rates, obviously, consumers are going to make sure that they're making the right decision. And I made the comment about what's going on in the boat business right now. We're obviously financing plays a big part.

Speaker 2

And it's not that they won't buy, but they're just taking their time. They've got more inventory to pick from and we feel good about what we've seen so far through April.

Speaker 5

Got it. Thank you, guys.

Speaker 7

You bet.

Operator

The next question is from Craig Kennison with Baird. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Hey, good morning and thank you for taking my question. We get a lot of questions from investors about guidance and really the expectation for Retail to be flat. We've got potential recession and we also have potential Tighter credit, although you're not seeing it. What gives you confidence in that flat outlook? Are we underestimating the product cycle?

Speaker 8

Or are we underestimating the impact of product availability and your ability to actually fulfill demand in a bigger way?

Speaker 2

Yes. I would say it's a few things, Craig. I mean, 1, the utility side of our business, Which for off road makes up about 60% of the volume. The demand there remains stable. In fact, on the commercial side, it's very strong.

Speaker 2

And so that gives me confidence as we get availability into the channel, we are seeing those products retail out or sell through. And so there's obviously an element there that as long as that market continues to hold up and frankly we're not seeing anything that tells us Anything differently, that gives us confidence. The second is, we talked about it. We're not expecting growth in our recreational category From the existing products, so we're anticipating things to continue to be a little slow there, just given that that's a far more discretionary purchase And consumers are obviously impacted by what's going on. Even if credit is available, the cost of credit is obviously a strong consideration.

Speaker 2

But I do think the new product elements, both for recreational and utility, that we have coming out later this year, Probably are being a bit underestimated. They're largely not a cannibalizing product, so they're redefining segments or defining new segments. And we're really excited about what we believe that means for the business. When you add on top of that, we didn't talk about it, but we had Considerable growth in our international markets, pretty much across the board, particularly strong in our India Motorcycle brand, but even growth in off road And growth in PG and A, that comes as a result of organic, but also with those new products, We are at the same time launching a number of PG and A options. So for example, when we launched the all new Razor XP, There were close to 100 accessories that came out literally at the same moment that vehicle did.

Speaker 2

And so when you add all those factors together, We believe that puts us in a pretty good environment to at least execute on a flat retail environment.

Speaker 3

The other thing to keep in mind is, as you think about 22 retail, which is the comp everybody is looking at, 22 was still not a normal retail either year from either a cadence And it was a good bit lower than 2019. So we're not comparing if you think of 2019 as the last Sort of normal cycle for this industry, the 'twenty two comp relative full year comp relative to 'nineteen It's not a herculean number. So we're already kind of down from where we were pre pandemic if you look at it from a units standpoint versus 2019.

Speaker 8

Thanks. If I could just follow-up, are you able to track sort of the average retail selling price? And Given dealers have to be sharper on their pricing, are you actually seeing maybe the monthly payment for a like for like unit tick down Given maybe a more competitive price from dealers?

Speaker 3

Yes. So you got 2 dynamics at play there, price obviously and interest rate. I would say that the increase in Both promo across the whole industry as well as the dealers to your point maybe sharpening their pencils a little bit, taking a little bit less margin. Obviously, during the pandemic, people were doing pretty much full top margins. That brings the finance rate down a little the finance amount down a little bit.

Speaker 3

I would expect most of that good news is offset by kind of the rates that have ticked up kind of quarter by quarter. So I don't know that that's having a huge impact yet. But if rates stabilize, that will start to maybe have a small impact. But we don't get the feedback from dealers is that The dollar per month isn't really the big driver. It's the headline shock of the rate when people are financing the products.

Speaker 3

They're just not used to seeing a rate That's kind of in the 7 plus range and that's more the driver on people's hesitancy to buy.

Speaker 2

Yes. And when we were out with the marine dealers, They were looking for some help from us, not necessarily financial help, but help in how do you articulate to consumers that Headline rate may be higher, but the impact from a monthly payment standpoint really is not significantly impacted. And So they happen to think differently about how they're selling. The other thing I'd point out is the comments that we've made around the high end of the business and that's It's true whether it's on road, off road or marine that the customer remains very strong. And, our we don't about it really much anymore, but that pre sold order book, obviously has come down from the heights that we had now that inventory is better.

Speaker 2

But it's still up pretty significantly relative to where it was before the pandemic and really that's centered around Like the Ranger Northstar where we're still not at optimal inventory levels and that just tells you that customers are Still anxious to get that product, that's good for dealers because whether it's the Turbo R, the Pro R, the Northstar Ranger, The amount of discounting that they have to do is minimal and that tends to be a more affluent customer that maybe not as sensitive to the financing rates. We feel pretty good about where those dynamics stand right now.

Speaker 9

Great.

Speaker 8

Thank you so much.

Operator

The next question is from Robin Farley with UBS. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Great. Thanks. Just to Clarify a little bit, I know the April retailers already asked about. I wonder if you could just indicate though whether when you say it's strong, Is it positive year over year or did you just mean that you were continuing to grow share? And just thinking about that in the context of your Expectation for retail to be flat for the year.

Speaker 10

It seems like Q1 was going to be the quarter that would have been up modestly. And so Is there a quarter later this year then, I don't know if it would be Q2 here or Q3, where you're now expecting to see that Kind of that retail up year over year? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes. So I would say this, April is tracking with our expectations. It is up versus last year. And obviously that's 1 of 3 months that we've got to execute on. So at this stage we feel pretty good about it.

Speaker 2

I think we're going to probably steer clear of trying to make commentary around the quarters on retail. The Q1, The difference between what happened and our expectations, really there were a couple of things. 1, as you well know, we had a fair number of our recreational products on Holds or retail holds, we did clear those, but as it happened later in the quarter, I'm sure that there was some of that that was still caught up in getting the work done on them. And then the second point that I made earlier is, we're still not where we need to be from a Ranger inventory standpoint. And so we know when we get that product in, it retails and we know that that's an area where we fell short of some of our expectations and it Purely around having that product at the dealer.

Speaker 2

So there's a lot of timing effects that go in there, but I think the key message is weather cleared up, Product availability both correlate to improving retail and we've seen that continue to improve not only relative to our expectations, but also

Speaker 10

Great. That's very helpful color around Q1. Thank you. Just a quick follow-up on The commentary about your retail financing partners, just given what's going on in the broader environment, there's concern about how much Credit would be available for consumer financing. Do you have an annual contract with your retail finance partners?

Speaker 10

Is there like a particular time of year when the Terms of that get revisited where if they had a change in view about how aggressive they want to lend in Different parts of the consumer space where those new terms would come into play?

Speaker 3

Yes, Robin, it's Bob. There are I mean, there are 4 partners and the contracts are all multi year. Obviously, they expire and renew at different points. But part of the benefit of having those four partners is that not only are they competing with the credit unions for business, but they're competing with each other. And so I think that helps us keep strong credit availability and Solid approval terms and the appropriate level of aggressiveness with the finance group.

Speaker 3

And we meet with them all monthly. Team meets with them more frequently than that, but I meet with them monthly and we feel good about where they are. They're not signaling any Lack of commitment to the market, they're not changing their credit standards, our FICO scores have remained very consistent. Our average consumer Earns well over $100,000 and their income is up 16% versus 2019. So It's a pretty strong consumer group to finance and the banks like the business.

Speaker 2

Hey, Robin, we've talked about it before. The thing I like about the Set up we have, which we've obviously expanded from what we used to have with really only 2 partners. Is there are thresholds in the contracts that Incentivize performance as well as the separation, as you've heard me say in the past, of church and state, so that We're not pushing them to go down a path that puts their balance sheet in a compromised position and they're not playing it too conservative. We think it puts us on a very balanced Middle of the road and I think that's why you see them picking up their penetration rates and it provides a really good opportunity for our customers.

Speaker 10

Okay, great. Thanks very much. Very helpful. Thanks.

Operator

The next question is from James Hardiman with Citi. Please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Hey, good morning. I had

Speaker 11

a question on the quarter and then maybe a question on the outlook. I guess as I think about The retail performance and then the reported sales performance, I was hoping you could maybe bridge that gap, Particularly on ORVs or off road, right? ORV retail was down 10%, reported whole goods sales were up 25, obviously, that's pretty big gap. It's not apples to apples. It never is.

Speaker 11

But maybe sort of walk us through The big contributors to that maybe start with the ASP number. I think you mentioned snowmobiles probably helped Increase that gap as well and then there was obviously some channel fill. I'm assuming a good chunk of that, call it $150,000,000 was ORVs. But I just want to make sure I'm not sort of missing any of the key components with regard to that sort of gap.

Speaker 3

Sure. This is Bob. I'll take that broad question in a couple of pieces here. So if you think about the quarter and you think about retail relative We made up some ground really on the ATV side. We started shipping, We're just starting to ship now the new RZRs, but we did make some progress on Pro R and Turbo are getting some more inventory out there in those high demand vehicles in the quarter.

Speaker 3

And as Mike said, we didn't make the progress we had hoped to make. And so for Ranger shipments in retail were relatively close, made up a little bit of ground, Not a lot. So it's part of it is getting better channel inventory out there, getting that out there ahead of the season Primarily on ATVs and like I said, a little bit on Ranger. The snow Was a piece of it. ASPs are another chunk.

Speaker 3

We had the this is the quarter where we had most of the carryover From last year, so our last price increase, major price increase was in early Q2 of last year. We do have more carryover on the pricing side. So the ASPs are up double digits In off road and mid single digits in on road and marine.

Speaker 11

Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe help us navigate and you touched on it, Bob, like the comparisons are maybe all over the place. If we just did the math, ORVs were up 6% versus 2019. I think if we were to hold that relationship on a year over year basis, they would be up a lot in the Q2.

Speaker 11

I know you're not sort Guiding retail, but you guys know I love a good slide. Slide 6, I think it is, Where you talk about sort of Q2 retail versus historical average, what is that telling us exactly? I think it's telling us that maybe You don't expect Q2 retail to be above 2019, but I just want to sort of understand, Make sure I'm picking up all you guys are putting down here.

Speaker 2

Well, I mean, what we were trying to get across on that slide was Probably, I mean, that trend for retail is a composite. So it was less about a specific comparison point. And I think really the point was trying to demonstrate where we're at in terms of dealer inventory channel fill, which As you rightly pointed out, we've largely completed that, although we have pockets where We still have inventory that's probably lower than where we would like it to be and we'll keep working that. But we're The point around returning to more seasonal, but we're not saying completely returning to seasonality because we have those pockets where inventory isn't where we'd like it But on the other side of that, we're not ignoring the broader macro environment. As we've talked about, our rec business is definitely under Pressure just given it's a more discretionary purchase.

Speaker 2

So, again, I don't want to steer into talking about quarterly retail because it doesn't take much To have movement between quarters and then we spend an awful lot of time trying to help people understand that. I think Q1 is a prime example That I think will help us as we get into Q2 given some of the delays we had. But at the same time, we've got another couple And there's a lot yet to play out from a broader economic perspective.

Speaker 11

Got it. But Just to clarify, if we were to sort of do the math of if you maintain plus 6 versus 2019, that's Probably going to get us to the wrong answer or maybe not.

Speaker 3

Well, if You use the math of plus 6 to 20 19 and carry that through the rest of the year, it would definitely get you to the wrong answer. So, as per se, we're going to be flat with And 2019 was a good bit back to 'twenty two. So I don't think you can say that seasonality In 'twenty two, it will be the same as it was in 'nineteen. Not to say that there's that, that can't happen, but to Mike's point, The year is setting up a little different and it's still in certain segments of the market, it's still impacted by product availability And it's going to take a while to continue to work through that. So and there's a dynamic, as Mike was, I think, also pointing out that You're seeing a higher level of utility sales relative to REX sales in 2023 Relative to 2022 in 2019 and that season is a little bit different.

Speaker 3

Rec tends to do really well in the spring as people get ready for riding and We're not anticipating rec to have a great year given just the macro environment. So That utility versus rec mix has an impact as well.

Speaker 11

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks guys.

Speaker 7

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Noah Zatzkin with KeyBanc. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I guess, first, hoping you could provide some color on the elevated production costs you called out and where that hit within ORV? And then somewhat relatedly, as it relates to the redesigned Razer XP product, I think you had mentioned more favorable margin dynamics related to kind of the modular approach. Wondering if there are any benefits you're thinking about this year related to that product? Thanks.

Speaker 2

I'll let Bob can get into more specifics. But in general, the way I would characterize what happened in Q1 is, We largely got the units out that we were targeting. The issue is how we executed that Resulted in a lot of inefficiencies. So we were still building product into rework, nowhere near the same magnitude that we've had historically, because suppliers are still delivering late. Now last year and the year before, when we said a supplier was delivering late, we were talking about Weeks, months, sometimes quarters.

Speaker 2

Now we're talking about days weeks. So what that means is we're still able to Product out, but we're not doing it in an incredibly efficient manner. And the teams are still working with that. We're narrowing it down. The number of suppliers that are late continues to come down.

Speaker 2

And as that happens, it improves our ability to get efficiency in the plant. And that really is largely what drove it and That's going to show up obviously in our gross margin performance within the Off Road Vehicle business. As we look forward, it's Tough to say how and when those will play out. We did add that to the list of assumptions that are essentially embedded in our guidance and obviously we're going Driving efficiencies in Huntsville and Monterey as quickly as we can. It's largely dependent on how suppliers deliver to us.

Speaker 2

So we're working backwards to make Sure that suppliers have everything they need to be able to deliver on time?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think in addition to the sort of operational inefficiencies Mike just talked about what we saw in the quarter. Steel had been trending in a positive direction as we kind of exited Q4, there's been a bump in steel prices, probably won't be long term, but that any benefit from steel That we are expecting in Q1 and Q2 is sort of taken up by that change in the curve. But again, we think that will trend back towards normal. Same thing with diesel, it's coming down a little it's forecasted to start coming down.

Speaker 3

We haven't seen it, but It's come down slower than we had anticipated. There was a little bit of benefit on the ocean freight side. Those rates turned A bit favorable in the quarter. So, some puts and takes on the rest of the cost side, but overall, it's just a little more negative than we had expected, but Nothing that's going to change our full year guidance. And then on the new RZR, so that vehicle benefits To some degree from some of the modularity work we're doing, but that project was started, it would have been nearly Probably 4 years ago.

Speaker 3

So it's not getting the full benefit. I wouldn't consider that to be the first product we've launched with our new philosophy. But Given what Mike talked about the 100 new PG and A items and multiple models Across that, having a good, better, best sort of range of product in the market, which we hadn't historically had, we do expect to see some margin benefit from it. Great. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from David MacGregor with Longbow Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Yes. Good morning, everyone. I wanted to ask about the On Road segment. And clearly, there's been a tremendous amount of progress made here over the past few years. But 21.4 percent gross margin, up 300 basis points.

Speaker 5

How much more upside is there to margins? And Maybe the more important question is just how sustainable are these margins given everything is going on, the mix, everything else?

Speaker 2

Well, I'd say a couple of things. 1, we've talked about obviously this segment includes Indian Motorcycles, Slingshot, but also a couple of the businesses that we have over in France, EXIM and Goodpiel, both which have Strong margin performance. So there's an element of that margin performance that those businesses continue to execute on. I wouldn't suggest that they're going to move meaningfully One way or the other, the real opportunity for us is around Indian and Slingshot. And as we've talked about, the path to profitability for both of those Brands is continued focus with Mike Dougherty and his team.

Speaker 2

They've made really strong progress over the past couple of years and We expect that to be an opportunity as we go forward. And when you think about the size of those businesses and the growth opportunity for both, There's meaningful improvement that we think we can make there. It's going to play out over time. And as we've Talked about in the past, we probably hadn't done a really good job with either Slingshot or Indian. These are essentially brand new businesses that we started from scratch, And it takes time to get to profitability.

Speaker 2

The team is laser focused on that, whether that's driving efficiencies and engineering now that we've got all the products That we essentially need out, so that takes your initial platform investment down or continuing to drive globalization. We've got a meaningful presence In Vietnam, we look like we're going to continue to expand that for in region motorcycle delivery. We've got a presence Europe is our fastest growing market for Indian, and we've got assembly operations in a Poli Poland. So all those things help As we continue to grow the business and we're really confident in our ability to continue to expand those margins.

Speaker 5

Yes. It's impressive. Congratulations on the progress there. Second question, you just talked about today about the commercial business and the contribution to growth. I guess it's been a while since we really talked much about that.

Speaker 5

Can you just remind us in terms of the size and the profit contribution from that business?

Speaker 2

Yes, we don't necessarily get into the size. Bob knows this business well. He used to have operating responsibility for it Before we made all the changes over the past few years, it's just it's turned out to be a great segment for the Ranger portfolio. You've seen A press release that United Rentals came out and has bought ordered a bunch of the new Ranger XP Kinetics. We continue to have a strong relationship with them and with several other operators in the space, and we have some really strong partner programs That help us as well.

Speaker 2

And with the amount of infrastructure and commercial development that's underway in the contracts, the order backlog looks great for this We're confident this business will continue to grow for at least the next couple of years.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thanks, Mike.

Operator

The next question is from Jamie Katz with Morningstar. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning. I have just one quick one. One of your competitors Talks quite a bit about new entrants and brand switchers and how that has supported growth for the top line. So can you guys give us a little insight into what you're seeing From your customer base, how that's evolving and what your ability is currently to sort of attract New entrants to the space or brand switchers? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes. I think We continue to see it's obviously not at the levels that we had in the pandemic when new customers were in the, call it, the low to mid-70s. But new customers still represent about 60% of the incoming volume. And so we know that Word-of-mouth, family members, friends, taking folks out on our vehicles is a big selling point and we continue to leverage that. We've done a lot.

Speaker 2

In fact, the management team and I were out at one of our Polaris Adventures locations in Arizona In the last month, and it was just incredible to see the volume of people going through that particular location. It was staggering. And we're now starting to activate upon that. So building a stronger relationship with those customers to either migrate them to a Polaris Adventure Select, which is more of a subscription program or into buying a vehicle. And so we think that that's a really good opportunity to continue to open the aperture and bring New people in.

Speaker 2

We've done a lot around educating, making sure with a lot of new people coming into the category, making sure they And how to use the vehicles, how to safely use the vehicles, how to load them on a trailer, all the different aspects associated with that. So we've tried to make that ownership experience much better than it has been. And frankly, we've done a lot of work with our dealers To really get them to up their game in terms of how they interact with the customer, we invested heavily in our website, which we just rolled out at the beginning of the year to make it an easier experience for customers to get on and get through the Someone new to the category trying to figure out what vehicle they need, is it a 2 seater or a 4 seater? Those are all pretty challenging things and we want to help them get that Work through before they have to walk into a dealer, which can be an even more intimidating experience. We think we've done a really good job of doing that.

Speaker 2

And then the last point I'd say is making sure we have vehicles that cover the spectrum. Not everybody is going to come in at the high end of the segment. We've done a lot of work to make better, more accessible lower cost entry level vehicles. And then the launch of Polaris Exchange was a big move. I mean, we are the single largest source of used vehicles and we know that that becomes an important tool for dealers To have those used vehicles to bring people that are new into the category that may not want to spend the money you need to spend on a new RZR P or a Pro R, but getting at a used Turbo S or a Pro XP may be a good way for them to enter the brand.

Speaker 2

And now with the introduction of Polaris James, that really gives the dealers a tool to get at that inventory and it does it in a more efficient way where we're controlling it versus just sending those vehicles off to an auction.

Speaker 12

Okay. And then actually I have one follow-up. I think there is some debt coming due later this year. Can you guys talk about whether you're thinking about renewing that, paying it down or does that sort of depending on what the capital allocation opportunities are.

Speaker 3

Yes. So the $500,000,000 3.60 core term loan It comes due late in Q4. We have rerolled that the last couple of times it's come due. Certainly, believe that option will be available if we choose to take it. But we'll look at that as we get through the year and decide where do we think the best use of the capital is, Either pay that off or to refinance it and use the money for CapEx, share buyback or Targeted M and A, but that will unfold as the year progresses.

Speaker 12

Got it. Thanks.

Operator

The next question is from Gerrick Johnson with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Great. Thank you. Hi, guys. This morning, I'd like to ask Bob, can you quantify the floor plan interest impact? What was that contra as a percent of gross sales?

Speaker 7

How does it look compared to last year? What was the change there? And maybe the same for discounts and promotions, how they impacted gross to net? Thank you.

Speaker 3

So in terms of the finance side of the retail finance side, the impact Last year versus this year was pretty minimal. On the wholesale side, The total was again, I'd say a few million about $5,000,000

Speaker 7

Okay.

Speaker 3

$5,000,000 greater.

Speaker 7

Okay. All right, great. And since we're always talking about the snowmobile shift, maybe could you quantify what the amount was that shifted from

Speaker 3

I would think about it in terms of a few 1,000 SLEDs.

Speaker 7

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Yes. Thanks.

Operator

The next question is from Sabahat Khan with RBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Great. Thanks and good morning. You talked a little bit about the boats earlier. Just hoping you could provide a little more comment on just kind of the share Situation in the pontoons and just generally speaking, how do you expect that market to evolve over the course of 2023, Do you think it is as much or less or more dependent on the macro backdrop, some perspective on maybe boats in general and specifically the pontoon side? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes. I mean, look, I think we expect that there's probably going to be some challenges. I mean, the opportunity for us was really getting inventory Back up at the appropriate levels, obviously, the SSI data, you can digest that, but pontoons were down in the 30% Range, on a relative basis, I feel really good about where we're at. I mean, the work that's been done to bring Godfrey up Over the last couple of years and beyond a pretty consistent trajectory to gain share, the work that's been done there is now being applied to Bennington and we saw that coming through In the March data, although there's obviously a number of states that haven't reported, we did see Bennington back in a share gain position, which was Really encouraging. So we're going to run the business relative to what's going on from a broader market perspective, but I think whether it's just pontoons or even Including the deck boat brand hurricane, we're in a really good position to gain share this year.

Speaker 2

We've lost share over the last couple of years in the Bennington brand. It's been largely at the lower end of the market. The high end of the market for us has been very strong and very strong from So the opportunity is really for us to go reinvigorate some of those lower end boats and be in a more competitive position and we feel like we've got that Laid out pretty well.

Speaker 9

Okay, great. And then just one quick one on this graph here on the right side of Slide 6. I just want to Understand kind of the details of dealer inventory here in units. It looks like it's back about in line with kind of pre pandemic levels. But I guess is this adjusted for Dave's inventory, I might not be reading it right, but just thinking a higher level of sales post pandemic.

Speaker 9

Is it just dealers are thinking a lower So level of inventory makes sense at this point or how should we think about inventory in days?

Speaker 2

Yes. I mean it's tough because Each of the businesses is in a different spot. I mean, as I mentioned, our Ranger business is still below where we think an optimal level would be. But the point that we made in the prepared remarks about the fact that relative to 2019, which is probably the best baseline We've got before the impact of the pandemic that inventory levels down about 20%. And Broadly speaking, we see that as probably closer to optimal, meaning we don't believe we're going to have to carry near as much as we have in the past.

Speaker 2

And that's a generic statement because there's going to be some areas where you've got to carry a pretty similar level of inventory. But with the ability to deliver product quickly, And as I mentioned around some of the pre sold stats, there's still going to be a desire as people walk in to want to put More of a customized touch to the vehicle and through our factory choice offerings and with a more stable supply environment, we should be able to do that for And be able to get vehicles in their hands on a relatively quicker basis than we have historically. So I think long winded way to say that The inventory levels are going to be lower than where they were before the pandemic and we think we're probably closer to where we should be right now.

Speaker 9

Okay. Great. If I could maybe squeeze just a quick one and just a bigger picture one, obviously a press release out yesterday on kind of a new electric offering. As you think about the development of that entire side of your business, is that macro dependent? Is that something you only continue if the macro holds in?

Speaker 9

Or Is that something because of the longer term opportunity you'll continue to invest in regardless of what happens with the macro backdrop here over the next call it 1 to 2 years?

Speaker 2

Yes, I'd say my answer to this is not just specific to EV, it's strategy. I mean, making sure that we're investing in the long term for this business is Absolutely essential. And given the ambiguity, Bob, myself and our business unit leaders are being very cautious about where we're adding costs into the But we're not compromising on making sure that we're pushing the strategic agenda forward, which obviously includes the investments we've got around electric, But there's a lot of other great things from a technology as well as product development standpoint that are going on. And the key for us is making sure that we're managing the business in a very Surgical manner, so that we're not starting and stopping, and that we keep our strategy execution on a pretty consistent cadence.

Speaker 9

Great. Thanks very much for that.

Speaker 7

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Jian Hsu with BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. Maybe just another way to think about the retail. You mentioned approaching typical seasonality last Yeah. In 2Q, you mentioned ORB Retail was up about 13% quarter on quarter, but maybe that was still held back by some limited availability.

Speaker 6

So I guess thinking about this 2Q should be ramped the ramp should be steeper than last year, I guess. Is that kind of how we should think about it?

Speaker 3

No, the ramp so last year Q1 was Relatively muted. We had poor relatively muted from both of retail. Retail was okay and It's not fully back to seasonality. So comparing 2022 to 2021, it doesn't really tell you very much because it's Purely related to what we shipped kind of in the quarter ahead in the early part of that quarter and that was all over the map from 'twenty through 22. So normally Q2 would be significantly higher than Q1 because we'd be shipping rec product And the direct side of ATV, Razer, that stuff into the channel for seasonality and then it would retail in Q2 as the season starts to open, we think that's going to be a little more muted this year just given the switch between utility and rec, given that rec is relatively more pressured with the current macro environment.

Speaker 3

So that changes it a little bit. We had Good retail as compared to 'nineteen, which would have been kind of a more normal season in Q1. So it's We're being cautious as we look at Q2 just not knowing if that was pull forward or if it's a sign of better retail to come. I think the ramp will not be I wouldn't think it would be steeper, if that's how you're looking at it.

Speaker 6

Okay. Got it. And then maybe on gross margin, if you can think about it by segment, so off road, Maybe down a bit quarter on quarter, but sounds like there's just some of these inefficiencies, so maybe it's a little bit more muted in off road. Meanwhile, on road was quite So should we be thinking like on road is up and off road maybe flat to down? Or how do we think about the composition

Operator

of the gross margin guide?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think that one thing to keep in mind when you think about kind of Q1 versus Q4, Q1 was while better while Q1 'twenty three was much better than Q1 22, it was also much lower than Q4. So part of the difference in volumes Q4 to Q1 Was really the just the difference in the size of the quarter and the mix was a bit different as well. Like we said, it had A bit more snow in it, snow tends to be lower margins. So I think on road, Q1, Q2 last year, when we had this black paint problem, so shipments were relatively Low, so those shipments will improve in Q2.

Speaker 3

Those margins though are lower than off road. So if you think about that, that's a negative from an overall standpoint, but those margins will be the on road margins will be better. And off road, we think will continue to improve through the course of the year. It will just be a little bit lumpy as we work through all the Supply chain challenges and sort of operational inefficiencies caused by those that Mike was talking about.

Speaker 6

Okay. Very helpful. Thanks guys.

Speaker 7

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Scott Stember with ROTH MKM. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 13

Just looking at the PG and A business And particularly off road, flat versus up 25% on whole goods. In the past, A few quarters ago maybe there were some questions asked about what could be a canary in a coal mine for Retail trends and just the consumer not having as much money in their pocket to buy these units. But what do you explain The fall off did have anything to do with a shift away from recreation products?

Speaker 3

No, it's a so retail in the quarter, retail in Q1 was below 22, so that's Part of it, PG and A tends to float with retail as opposed to wholesale ship. We're also seeing On the PG and A side, really on the accessory side, we're seeing a little bit of Slowing of inventory shipments as dealers right size their inventory. Their DSOs are kind of trending back Towards normal, they've been a bit elevated as we went through the pandemic just because of the lumpiness of shipments and back orders and Dealers wanting to make sure they have the PG and A to attach to the units when they showed up. So as we've worked through that, our back orders have come down. We've seen Dealers refocused a little bit on their DSO.

Speaker 3

We think that will mostly played out through the quarter, but probably had a little bit of negative impact on shipments. What we have seen is retail, the attachment rates to the units that retailed in the quarter We're solid and actually trended up a bit. So we're not seeing what we would think would be sort of a canary in the coal mine as you said Related to accessories and then parts and related work orders, all those kinds of things were all relatively solid. So We're not seeing anything there either. So we think that's a bit of a 1 quarter trend as the dealers sort of right sized what they had for accessory inventory And we expect that to return to normal growth and we expect PG and A to actually outgrow whole goods for the year.

Speaker 2

And Scott, obviously with our Ride command penetration, we're able to get out and at least look at the ride activity for those vehicles, which we do know is up year over year. And As we've talked to dealers, the volume in their service shops has stayed consistent. The difference is they just don't have the backlog. They were weeks weeks out from being able to get to somebody's vehicle and they're again, it's like everything else. It's starting to return to a more normal pattern.

Speaker 2

And I think that's Probably more reflective of the fact that this whole work from home movement has proved to not play out as a lot of people thought 2 years ago and People are back to work, but I would say the writing activity continues to be good and probably reflects more of a normalized pattern.

Speaker 13

Got it. And then last question on the marine side. The pontoon industry down high 20s And you're talking about how I guess the high end of that market is performing well. The first question is, is that segment of the market actually up? And The other question is, what is the divergence between the low end and the high end?

Speaker 13

It seems pretty high. Yes.

Speaker 3

We're not going to get into market share by categories, but we continue to see strong demand and backlog In the higher end products, as we went through 'twenty two, we were very focused on that. So We really weren't shipping a lot of our kind of smaller and more entry series boats. We've got a lot of those out into the channel in Kind of late Q4 and in Q1, so we expect as the season starts to kick off, we'll see that end of the market pick up. Yes, I think marine is going to have a from a just overall growth of the industry, I know everyone's expecting it to be a bit of a down year, I think we've got a good opportunity to take back share in that low end of the or the kind of more smaller boat Entry price category end of the market where we just weren't shipping product the last couple of years through the course of the pandemic. We don't view that as a negative.

Speaker 3

We think that that will give us an opportunity to take some share back and we'll see how that plays out.

Speaker 13

All right.

Speaker 7

That's all I have. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Scott.

Operator

The next question is from Brandon Rollais with D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in here. I just had a quick question on market share. Would you be able to comment on your North American ORB market share exiting 1Q, where you expect it to be at the end of 'twenty three and maybe the market share growth opportunity in 2024 and beyond, especially given Some of your competitors are increasing capacity and maybe improving their inventory availability in the coming years. Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes, I guess what I would obviously, I don't want to get into all the specifics, but they're increasing capacity, so are we. We have been. I don't see that as a factor in this. What I will say is that the momentum for our off road business has been quite good for the past couple of quarters and a lot of that's been driven by availability and now we're going to add the second punch to that which is the new products. And The receptivity to the new RZR XP, I would encourage you to go look at the reviews.

Speaker 2

They've been incredibly strong. Dealers loved it. I was Bob and I were at the dealer meeting in Orlando when we launched that vehicle and had the opportunity to talk to dealers and They were just ecstatic about the improvements in quality, and we have more coming this year from an off road standpoint. And as I mentioned, they're what I would term category defining. So, I think Polaris is back playing offense when it comes to product innovation and you're seeing Start of that and I have a lot of confidence in where that can take us into the future.

Speaker 7

Great. Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

This concludes our question and answer session and the conference has also now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

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