Hilltop Q2 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 21, 2023

There are 8 speakers on the call.

Operator

Morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Hilltop Holdings Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is being recorded on Friday, July 21, 2023. I would now like to turn the conference over Eric Yohe, Executive Vice President with Hilltop Holdings.

Operator

Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Before we get started, please note that certain statements during today's presentation that are not statements of historical fact, Including statements concerning such items as our outlook, business strategy, future plans, financial condition, allowance for credit losses, Liquidity and sources of funding, the impact and potential impacts of inflation, stock repurchases and dividends And impacts of interest rate changes as well as such other items referenced in the preface of our presentation are forward looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations concerning future events that by their nature are subject to risks and uncertainties. Our actual results, capital, liquidity and financial condition may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of factors, including the precautionary statements referenced in our presentation and those included in our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. Please note that the information presented is preliminary and based upon data available at this time.

Speaker 1

Except to the extent required by law, We expressly disclaim any obligation to update earlier statements as a result of new information. Additionally, this presentation includes certain non GAAP measures, including tangible common equity and tangible book value per share. A reconciliation of these measures to the nearest GAAP measure may be found in the appendix to this presentation, which is posted on our website at ir.hilltop holdings.com. With that, I'd like to now turn the presentation over to Jeremy Ford, President and CEO.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Eric, and good morning. For the Q2, Hilltop reported net income of $18,000,000 For $0.28 per diluted share. Return on average assets for the period was 0.5% and return on average equity was 3.5%. Hilltop's operating results reflect the challenging market conditions in our Mortgage Origination and Banking segments, offset by profitability growth in our Broker Dealer segment. We continue to prioritize the strength of our balance sheet by building on our robust capital and liquidity positions.

Speaker 2

And we remain confident in our ability to continue serving our valued clients through various business and interest rate cycles with our synergistic and durable business model. During the quarter, PlainsCapital Bank generated $40,000,000 of pretax income on $13,800,000,000 of assets, Representing a return on average assets of 0.9 percent. Average loans at the bank increased by $172,000,000 in the quarter We're approximately 9% annualized as core bank commercial loans, mortgage warehouse loans and retained mortgage balances increased. Growth was strong this quarter as a result of the great work by our bankers over the past year. But we now expect loan growth Slow given the declining pipelines we have realized over the last few months.

Speaker 2

Though our credit standards are largely unchanged, Market is still competitive and clients, particularly in commercial real estate are pulling back as elevated rates diminish the economics of many projects. Regarding deposits, we continue to take actions to ensure the bank maintains financial flexibility, while also being mindful of margin impact. During the quarter, we increased broker deposits at the bank by $390,000,000 and continued to access $1,500,000,000 Core deposits from Hilltop Securities FDIC suite program. This is an increase of approximately $500,000,000 From the amount that we have historically accessed from the program. Given the heightened competition in the market for deposits, We were aggressive with deposit rate increases in the quarter to retrain and attract customers.

Speaker 2

We believe our deposit rates are now competitive, I still expect our cost of deposits to moderately increase throughout the second half of twenty twenty three. While our deposit base has stabilized, As expected, these actions have led to net interest margin compression. The bank's results were also impacted by Provision for credit losses of $14,900,000 This provision was driven by a combination of factors, deterioration in the overall commercial real estate outlook, negative credit migration, particularly in the office portfolio and loan growth. Although we have built up our allowance, we have still yet to realize any notable charge offs. Overall, our bank continues to operate at a high level and produce solid results, despite NIM compression from deposit competition elevated provisioning given expectations of credit normalization.

Speaker 2

Our team of seasoned bankers and tenured leadership are working hard To ensure that the bank maintains the flexibility to still lend a strong credit and longstanding relationships in the current market. Moving to prime lending. The 2nd quarter was another challenging period for the mortgage business. Spring home buying season did not materialize On account of low housing inventory and high home prices coupled with high mortgage rates, which are adversely impacting homebuyer affordability and confidence. In addition to sidelining many prospective homebuyers, higher rates further reinforced inventory constraints and low refinance volume Due to the rate lock in effect caused by having so many current mortgagees for the sub 4% mortgage rate.

Speaker 2

Prime Lending originated $2,500,000 in volume, a decline of 36% from the same period prior year, Roughly in line with the overall industry volume projections of 32%. Of this originated volume, Only 6% was refinanced volume compared to 12% during the Q2 of last year. This reduction in refinance Volume can be attributed to the previously mentioned rate lock in effect that will continue to have a significant impact on volumes until rates decline. We did see some relief in gain on sale margins during the period. As reported, gain on sale margins increased from Q1 2023 by 15 basis points to 201 basis points.

Speaker 2

While this is still lower than the same period prior year, It is an encouraging sign of some stabilization in the market. Given the difficulty of projecting future market size due to inventory levels, Interest rates and prolonged industry excess capacity. PrimeLending continues to resize the business and correspondingly reduce its expense base. This includes actions such as non sales headcount reductions, consolidation of unprofitable branches, Termination of underperforming originators and renegotiation of leases and vendor contracts. Additionally, We continue to recruit loan originators and take advantage of some opportunities in areas where other firms have exited by recruiting We also remain focused on improving efficiencies and lowering Costs associated with the overall loan fulfillment process.

Speaker 2

We believe that the arduous resizing, recruiting and process improvement efforts By the PrimeLending team are going to be a substantial tailwind for us when the market does recover. Hilltop Securities realized pretax income of $19,000,000 on net revenues of $113,000,000 during the 2nd quarter. Pre tax profit and margins improved compared to last year's Q2 due to a 13% increase in net revenues And a lower compensation ratio of 58% compared to 64% in Q2 2022. The revenue improvement over the Q2 2022 was primarily related to the Wealth Management business Our money market and FDIC sweep accounts revenues benefited from the higher short term interest rates despite weaker transactional production. After a difficult start last year, Hilltop Securities has performed well over the last 12 months, with nearly all business lines generating revenue growth.

Speaker 2

I believe this demonstrates the resilience of its established business lines, enhancements made to the firm and the quality of its people. Moving to Page 4. Hilltop maintains strong capital levels With a common equity Tier 1 capital ratio of 17.6 percent and our tangible book value per share increased from Q2, twenty twenty Hilltop's profitability has been challenged in the first half of the year from the macroeconomic environment and we do expect interest rates to remain elevated. So we will continue to be conservative in our approach. However, we also believe that our demonstrated focus on balance sheet strength and capital preservation We'll provide opportunities for long term growth.

Speaker 2

With that, I will now turn the presentation over to Will to discuss the financials.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Jeremy. I'll start on Page 5. As Jeremy discussed, for the Q2 of 2023, Hilltop reported consolidated income attributable to common stockholders of $18,000,000 equating to $0.28 per diluted share. During the quarter, year over year net interest income growth was offset by the ongoing headwinds in the mortgage business, increasing cost of deposits and higher provision expenses. To further address the change in allowance, I'm turning to Page 6.

Speaker 3

Flitop's allowance for credit losses increased during the quarter by $12,000,000 to $109,000,000 Deterioration in the macroeconomic outlook coupled with The impacts of loan growth and collective portfolio changes resulted in an allowance build for the quarter. Allowance for credit losses of $109,000,000 Yields in ACL to total loans HFI ratio of 1.31% as of June 30, 2023. As we've seen over time, ACL can be volatile as it is impacted by economic assumptions as well as changes in the mix and makeup of the credit portfolio. We continue to believe that the allowance for credit losses could be volatile and the future Changes in the allowance will be driven by net loan growth in the portfolio, credit migration trends and changes to the macroeconomic outlook over time. Given the current uncertainties regarding inflation, interest rates, the future outlook for GDP growth and unemployment, Volatility could be heightened over the coming quarters.

Speaker 3

I'm moving to Page 7. For the quarter, we wanted to provide a little more detail into our CRE the allowance distribution across some of our key loan segments. At June 30, the CRE portfolio totaled $3,300,000,000 We segregate in the owner and non owner occupied or investor real estate. Internally, we view owner occupied real estate more like C and I lending For the most part, repayment is driven by the operating business that owns the real estate. Non owner occupied real estate makes up 57% of the CRE book and as is noted in the upper right hand chart is diversified Across multiple income producing property types.

Speaker 3

In the table in the lower left, we provide a breakout of non owner occupied office And retail within the portfolio to highlight the differentiation in ACO coverage by loan segment type. Our view to date Is that the office and retail markets across our footprint represent the highest exposure to both recession, absorption and valuation risk in the portfolio. As such, you can see that those loan segments maintain larger ACL coverage ratios and other non owner occupied real estate products. We're currently monitoring the entire portfolio closely and have not seen any systemic risk emerge as of the 2nd quarter. That said, we do expect that the ongoing cash flow challenges facing existing and new projects driven by higher interest rates and ongoing inflation It leads to further credit migration over time.

Speaker 3

Turning to Page 8. Net interest income in the 2nd quarter equated to $118,000,000 Including $3,300,000 of purchase accounting accretion versus the prior year 2nd quarter, net interest income increased by $6,000,000 or 6%, Primarily driven by higher yields on loans, securities and cash balances. These benefits were largely offset by higher rates on deposits and variable rate borrowings. As we expected, net interest margin declined versus the Q1 of 2023 By 25 basis points to 303 basis points. Of note, approximately 14 basis points of this change can be attributed to our outsized Cash levels, whereby the average cash balance in the quarter was approximately $1,800,000,000 Our current outlook scenario whereby Fed funds moves to between $525,000,000 $575,000,000 by the end of the Q3 of 2023 And remain stable for the balance of the year.

Speaker 3

Further rate increases coupled with ongoing deposit competition could cause NII And NIM to decline further during the 3rd and 4th quarters. Turning to Page 9. In the chart, we highlight the approximately $7,000,000,000 of available liquidity sources that Hilltop maintained as of June 30. While we consider the Federal Reserve's discount window to be a source of liquidity, we do not plan to leverage that program under our internal liquidity modeling efforts. And as such, it is noted below our other collateralized borrowing sources.

Speaker 3

Further, comparable liquidity sources as of December 31st We created just over $7,000,000,000 and remained relatively stable throughout the first half of the year. As is shown in the chart, At June 30, Hilltop maintained $1,400,000,000 of excess reserves at the Federal Reserve. Given the stabilization in the banking Sector over the last weeks months, we are revising our cash target lower to between $750,000,000 $1,500,000,000 at the Federal Reserve. We expect to maintain these levels throughout year end. Additionally, in the bottom left chart, we provide some detail on the pace of deposit beta changes To date, and note our expectations for future changes in interest bearing deposit rates under the view that the Federal Reserve continues to move short term rates higher.

Speaker 3

Moving to Page 10. 2nd quarter average total deposits are approximately $11,300,000,000 And increased by approximately $300,000,000 or 3% versus the Q1 of 'twenty 3. On an ending balance basis, Deposits increased by $67,000,000 to $11,200,000,000 from the prior quarter. Of note, Approximately $370,000,000 of customer deposits remain off balance sheet in our wealth management business at PlainsCapital. Large majority of these Balances are in products that will mature by year end and we're working diligently to get them moved back on balance sheet at competitive rates for our clients.

Speaker 3

As a result of our ongoing pricing efforts, interest bearing deposit costs rose to 284 basis points, an increase of 83 basis points from the prior quarter. It is our expectation that interest bearing deposit costs will move higher for the balance of 2023 given our stated views On the path of potential rate increases from the Federal Reserve and the updates we've made to our pricing approach. As it relates to deposit balances and costs, remain focused on balancing our competitive position with our long term customer relationships, while we continue to focus on prudent management net interest income over time. However, the current environment remains challenging. And as noted earlier, we expect the intensity of competition for deposits will continue to pressure rates higher in the short and medium terms.

Speaker 3

I'm now moving to Page 11. Total non Interest income for the Q2 of 2023 equated to $191,000,000 2nd quarter mortgage related income and fees decreased by $50,000,000 versus the Q2 of 2022 driven by the ongoing challenges in mortgage banking, provided combination of higher interest rates, Home price inflation, limited housing supply and ongoing overcapacity in terms of mortgage originators across the U. S. Distributed volumes and margins materially lower. Further, versus the prior year's Q2, purchase mortgage volumes by $1,000,000,000 or 31 percent and refinance volumes decreased by $316,000,000 or 68%.

Speaker 3

During the Q2 of 2023, gain on sale margins showed further signs of stabilization with gain on sale margin for loans sold to third parties Increasing 14 basis points to 207 basis points. While gain on sale margins remain pressured, We are pleased to see a very modest rebound during the quarter. We expected a full recovery in margins will occur slowly And likely will not be a straight line as industry capacity and other constraints remain. Other income Increased by $6,000,000 driven primarily by improved trading activity in our fixed income businesses at Hilltop Securities. Further, while TBA lock volumes increased substantially from the Q2 of 'twenty two levels to $1,600,000,000 during the Q2 of 'twenty three, Structured finance revenues remained stable as this quarter's results include a negative $8,100,000 mark on the pipeline The prior year results reflected a modest positive mark in the period.

Speaker 3

As we've noted in the past, it's important to recognize that both fixed income services and structured Businesses at Hilltop Securities can be volatile from period to period as they're impacted by interest rates, overall market liquidity, Volatility and production trends. Turning to Page 12. Non interest expenses from the same period in the prior year by $31,000,000 to $267,000,000 Decrease in the expenses versus Prior year's Q2 was driven by decreases in variable compensation of approximately $23,000,000 at Prime Lending and Hilltop Securities, This was linked to lower fee revenue generation in the quarter compared to the same period in the prior year. Looking forward, we expect The variable compensation will remain relatively stable as the ongoing focused efforts related to streamlining our operations and improving productivity We continue to support lower headcount and improved throughput across our franchise helping to offset the ongoing inflationary pressures that persist in the market. Turning to Page 13.

Speaker 3

2nd quarter average HFI loans equated to $8,000,000,000 Relatively stable with Q1 levels. On a period ending basis, HFI Homes grew versus the Q1 of 'twenty three by $161,000,000 Driven by improving commercial loan growth, particularly in commercial real estate lending, mortgage warehouse lending and the retention of 1 to 4 family mortgages originated by Prime Lending. We expect that loan growth will slow in the second half of the year as 1 to 4 family retention levels decline commercial lending activity continues to contract. Currently, we are expecting full year average loan growth of 0% to 2% During 2023, excluding mortgage warehouse lending and any retained mortgages from prime lending. Turning to Page 14.

Speaker 3

For the 1st period in a number of quarters, we did see NPAs move slightly higher to $42,000,000 during the 2nd quarter. The change was driven largely by a single credit downgrade in the Q2. This credit has subsequently paid off early in July. Overall, credit quality has remained solid through the Q2. And while we do not see any prevailing trends that cause us outsized Our portfolio, we are watching the portfolio closely as higher interest rates, potentially lower utilization rates in certain segments of commercial real estate And an expected slowdown in economic activity that have a negative impact on our clients and our portfolio.

Speaker 3

As is shown in the graph at the bottom right of the page, allowance for credit loss coverage to the bank ended the 2nd quarter at 1.36%, including mortgage warehouse lending. Turning to Page 15. As we move into the Q3 of 'twenty three, there continues to be a lot of uncertainty in the market regarding interest rates, Inflation and the overall health of the economy. We're pleased with the work that our team has delivered to position our company for times like these Our teammates across our franchise remain focused on delivering great customer service to our clients, attracting new customers to our franchise, Supporting the communities where we serve, maintaining a moderate risk profile and delivering long term shareholder value. As is noted in the table, our current outlook for 2023 reflects our current assessment of the economy and the markets where we participate.

Speaker 3

Further, as the market changes and we adjust our business to respond, we will provide updates to our outlook on future quarterly calls. Operator, that concludes our prepared comments. We'll turn the call back to you for the Q and A section of the call.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer followed by the 1 on your touch tone phone. You will hear a 3 tone prompt acknowledging your request. Your first question comes from Thomas Wendler of Stephens, Inc. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Hey, good morning, everyone. Good morning. Good morning. I just wanted to start off with the interest bearing beta expectations. So you said the marginal interest bearing Expectations are for 75% to 100% beta on any additional federal fund increases.

Speaker 4

Is this where you expect the cumulative beta to get? And then also that seems like a step down from what we saw in for a beta in 2Q. Can you maybe give us an idea of how you plan on managing the tail end risk for interest bearing deposit costs?

Speaker 3

Sure. This is Will. During the second quarter Coming off of the bank failures and some of the activities that occurred late in the Q1, We made we saw a substantial increase in kind of overall demand for higher rates from our customers and it really awakened the market I think to higher rates. As a result, during the quarter, second quarter, we increased rates pretty substantially on our Top tier products, we moved CDs we launched a CD special that was it had a rate well in excess of 5%. All really out of an abundance of caution to stabilize any otherwise runoff that we might have otherwise been seeing in our deposit base and Outside of tax activity during the Q2, we believe we were able to stabilize that.

Speaker 3

So we did take some Pronounced and I'd say larger than expected moves in the second quarter just to again out of an abundance caution mitigate any potential runoff. On a go forward basis, we do think the market remains competitive. We think we're in a competitive position from a rates perspective across Our product and pricing suite, and as a result, we would expect to pass through the vast majority of any Future Fed rate increases to our clients and that's where the 75% to 100% comes from. But to your point, 2nd quarter was higher as we reset to what Was it changing marketplace after the bank failures?

Speaker 4

That was great color. Thank you. And then just kind of Sticking with deposits, looks like you added some broker deposits during the quarter. Can you give us an idea of the rate and term on those?

Speaker 3

They're approximately they range, but they're 5% to 5 10 basis points. And the term was 90 days, 180 days 90 to 180 day terms.

Speaker 4

All right. That's all my questions. Thanks guys.

Operator

Thanks. Our next question comes from the line of Stephen Scouten of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Hey, good morning everyone. Appreciate it. So I'm wondering the improved guide in the broker dealer, if you could Give some more color there on what you're seeing. And then in particular, I would think you guys have some interesting visibility into broker dealer deposit balances for your customers. Just kind of Curious if you're seeing stability there and how you feel about

Speaker 6

the strength of those deposits moving forward?

Speaker 2

Will, you want to start off and I'll?

Speaker 3

Yes. So I think what we're seeing from an outlook perspective, from a revenue perspective, we're obviously seeing strength in our Suite revenues, as Jeremy has mentioned, over time and during the call today, we higher rates have historically benefited The overall sweep revenues, we do think that no different than the deposit discussion we just had, with the prior question We'll be passing along the vast majority of any future rate increases to customers from an overall sweep deposit perspective. But nonetheless, we are seeing we've seen an improvement there. We're also seeing strength as we continue to invest in our business around Fixed income is improving, public finance services we expect to have a stronger second half as they historically do. And structured finance notwithstanding the mark that I mentioned in my prepared comments is also having a better year Than they've had here of recent.

Speaker 3

So that's where we start to see the strength in kind of the fee income. From a deposit level perspective, We are seeing customers as we are in our core deposit base searching for higher yields. So We've got a suite of products from FDIC insured products to money market mutual funds, to Ladder treasuries and the likes, we've got a series of options those customers can pursue. And we are seeing customers based on their risk appetite, Their appetite for term products move into some of those higher yielding products. So move, I'd say excess cash out of their brokerage account and into, I'd say higher yielding, more term oriented products in certain cases, just as we're seeing from a deposit base perspective.

Speaker 3

So Similar activity from a deposit base at Hilltop Securities as we're seeing in the core bank franchise.

Speaker 5

Okay. Extremely helpful. Thank you. And I guess as you think about the margin from here, I mean, you noted you think there could be More compression in 3rd quarter, 4th quarter on both the margin and NII. Can you give us a feel for you think the magnitude of that might be maybe compared to what we saw this quarter?

Speaker 5

And then with non interest bearing deposits down to around 31%, do you have any feel for where the floor of that could be or if you see stability there?

Speaker 3

Yes. So I'll answer those in reverse. So from a noninterest Bearing perspective, we while your 31% is correct, we generally think about it ex broker because again, we don't fully anticipate to hold those brokers for long periods of time past their maturity unless something changes in the marketplace. So we look at the more normal level here, you're closer to 33%. Historically, pre pandemic, we would have been 31% to 32% as a percent.

Speaker 3

NIB To total, we expect we'll revert to that. We may sink a little lower in the short run, but our expectation will be In that 30% to 32% non interest bearing over time as the market continues to settle out. As it relates to net interest income and NIM, I think if we see the way we're thinking about it, if we see 25 basis points of an increase, for example, We would expect NIM potentially would decline somewhere between 7 10 basis points On a quarterly basis for each incremental 25. From a net interest income perspective, the variability you're seeing here, we peaked in the 3rd quarter like we would have We would had pretty stable in the Q4. We do expect NII will continue to decline just as Again, that 75 if rates move higher and we have a 75 to 100 basis point deposit beta, obviously, our loan beta Won't be able to keep up with that from an overall NII perspective.

Speaker 3

So we would expect to see NII again Drift lower, I wouldn't call it a step function lower, but I'd say drift lower through the back half of the year.

Speaker 5

Great. Extremely helpful color. And then just last thing for me, I guess, is you guys were already weighted to that S7 Moody scenario. So I'm curious, Was that just that their scenario dynamics there changed so significantly that drove some of the Reserve increased or did you guys weight it differently or are there some qualitative factors? What's kind of the mechanics of that increase in the reserve and

Speaker 6

like you noted Without the charge off as of yet?

Speaker 3

Yes. So our we don't actually wait scenarios. So we use the S7 On a purest basis, we do a pretty, I'd say, onerous evaluation of a series The economic scenarios and management goes through and selects one that we believe best reflects where we think the market is and where we think it's going to go Over the coming quarters years, and we believe the S-seven reflected that all in. Our view continues to be With the Federal Reserve moving as fast and as far as it has, the economy being a big shift and as it starts to turn and we are seeing some of a downshift, it'll be difficult to avert a recession. And so our view is that, That recession scenario best reflects again what our view of where the overall economy is going.

Speaker 3

As we've noted, since CECL came out, Allowance is going to be volatile. It will be principally volatile along this macroeconomic scenario. We'll continue to evaluate it each quarter as we do. But right now, we feel like we're adequately and appropriately reserved for the environment we believe is forthcoming.

Speaker 5

Got it. So it sounds like most

Speaker 3

of those changes came just as Moody's worse than that S7 scenario then. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 5

Yes. I mean, if you look at

Speaker 3

our chart, dollars 7,700,000 of the build was specifically related to macroeconomic and That's pretty direct drive quantitative assessment. So again, over half of the build was driven by that change.

Speaker 5

Perfect. Thank you so much. Appreciate the color guys. Sure.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Woody Lee of KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Hey, good morning guys. Good morning. Just wanted to follow-up on the deposit cost commentary. You noted you raised pretty aggressively during the quarter. Just any color on when those raises occurred?

Speaker 3

Most of the rate increases happened in the month of April and to some extent in May. Again, we were We went into a heavy evaluation period when the bank failure started to occur, bank runs started to occur. And we also saw a corresponding Spiking request from our customers again, we bifurcate it. There was some concern about Safety and soundness in the banking sector, we really didn't see or feel a lot of that beyond maybe the 1st week after the bank failures. But we did see, Again, what I'd call an awakened customer focused on overall higher yields.

Speaker 3

So we moved pretty aggressively in April and then again There toward the end of April early May with another set of interest bearing the product changes just to ensure again we were well positioned against the market It was moving pretty aggressively. So largely, the cost of interest bearing deposits to $284,000,000 reflect, I'd say the vast majority of those changes on a full quarter average basis. But there'll be, as I said in my comments, Some drift higher just because it wasn't a perfect full quarter.

Speaker 6

Got it. That's helpful. And now I wanted to switch over to credit and the breakout of office that I appreciate the breakout that you provided. Any commentary you can provide on just the markets you're most exposed to within that investor office portfolio?

Speaker 3

Our exposure is really across the footprint, but it's going to be in our larger metro areas. So Dallas, Austin Are probably the largest 2 than Houston after that. So I mean, it's the office portfolio While not what I wouldn't say, I would not characterize it as kind of downtown or urban, if you will, but I would call it tangentially Related to the larger metro areas where we serve clients.

Speaker 6

And is it mostly low rise Building, is that fair to assume?

Speaker 3

I'd say mid and low rise, but not we're not out financing a lot of high rise buildings.

Speaker 6

Got it. And then last for me, I just wanted to touch on buybacks. It's Been a minute since you've been aggressive on the buybacks. Just any thoughts on the outlook for here?

Speaker 2

This is Jeremy. I'd say that it's just not really compelling right now with the macroeconomic environment And other alternative opportunities and really where our value sits is still higher than where we've Transacted on the prior tenders, but if it should dip materially then we certainly would consider it. Got it. All right. Thanks for me.

Speaker 2

Thanks guys.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Karl Dwaren of Raymond James and Associates. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Hi, good morning. Faram, just a quick and easy one on another question on deposits here. You talked about the positive behaviors and client requesting higher rates as well as being more competitive relative to peers. I just wanted to ask if you can perhaps describe perhaps what you're seeing in terms of the competitive environment in your markets for deposit pricing Relative to 2Q, are you seeing more or less irrational behaviors from competitors? And how would you describe that?

Speaker 3

I don't think we're seeing any more irrational labors. I think the competitive landscape notwithstanding Some other some additional shocks has stabilized. I mean, it's aggressive customer or banks and others are looking for deposits. And I think customers have In there at least intellectually started to move toward a view that 4% 5% is an earnings rate that they are aspiring to achieve. So, but from a competitive perspective, we saw some things early immediately after the bank Turmoil occurred that seemed peculiar, but I'd say largely speaking, while we do with while there's certainly some competitors out there that go Higher rates than we do.

Speaker 3

I'd say generally speaking, it's pretty rational and it's certainly stabilized here last 3 to 6 weeks.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you for that. And moving on to the broker dealer We saw a pretty nice increase in the pre tax margin there. Could you talk about That moving forward, or is it sort of seasonality going on?

Speaker 2

Well, I think as Will said earlier, the broker dealer Having a strong year and really had a strong last 12 months. And with the sweep deposits and rate that we're getting there and the fact that that's the higher margin kind of bedrock to the results, I would expect The second half of the year to be similar to the first, albeit I'd probably say the margin is that 16% pretax margin is Would be on the high side.

Speaker 7

All right. Thank you. I have one last one on The mortgage banking space, you took a pretty significant actions over the past few quarters to right size costs At PrimeLending, with the I guess with the updated outlook for lower origination, I guess, should we expect additional On measures or do you think most of the initiatives have already been completed?

Speaker 3

I would say as we evaluate that business, obviously, we're not pleased with the loss That currently is being kind of managed through. So it's our view. We're going to continue to look in every corner To look for opportunities to streamline that business and right size it for the market. However, as we've said previously, we're committed to the mortgage business. We're also Absolutely focused on making sure we're doing things that position the franchise for long term success.

Speaker 3

So While it is important to us to continue to focus on working towards profitability at a minimum breakeven results, We're going to continue to take steps to do things we think are prudent to improve productivity with a focus on helping position the franchise For long term success when this market does turn.

Speaker 7

All right. Thank you. Well, that is all from me. Thank you very much.

Speaker 3

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. And this concludes our conference call for today. We thank you for participating, participating and we ask you

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Hilltop Q2 2023
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