CGI Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 26, 2023

There are 10 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to CGI's Third Quarter Fiscal 2022 Conference Call. And I would like to turn the meeting over to Mr. Kevin Linder, SVP of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Sylvie, and good morning. Looking to discuss CGI's Q3 fiscal 2023 results are George Schindler, our President and CEO And Steve Perron, Executive Vice President and CFO. This call is being broadcast on cgi.com and recorded live at 9 am Eastern Time on Wednesday, July 26, 2023. Supplemental slide as well as a press release we issued earlier this morning are available for download along with our Q3 MD and A, financial statements and accompanying notes, all of which have been filed with both SEDAR Plus and EDGAR. Please note that some statements made on the call may be forward looking.

Speaker 1

Actual events or results may differ materially from those expressed or implied NCGI disclaims any intent or obligation to update or revise any forward looking statements whether as a result of new information, The complete Safe Harbor statement is available in both our MD and A and press release as well as on cgi.com. We recommend our investors read it in its entirety. We are reporting our financial results in accordance with International Financial Reporting Standards or IFRS. As always, we will also discuss non GAAP performance measures, which should be viewed as supplemental. The MD and A contains definitions of each one used in our reporting.

Speaker 1

All of the dollar figures expressed on this call are Canadian unless otherwise noted. I'll now turn it over to Steve to review our Q3 financials And then George will comment on our business and market outlook. Steve?

Speaker 2

Thank you, Kevin, and good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to share with you the results of our Q3 of fiscal 2023. In Q3, We delivered $3,620,000,000 of revenue, up 11.2% year over year are up 6.3% when excluding the impact of foreign exchange. The following segments generated double digit constant currency growth. U.

Speaker 2

K. And Australia, up 15% Asia Pacific up 13% and Western and Southern Europe up 10%. From an industry perspective, we have growth across all sectors with particular strength in government, our largest vertical market generating constant currency growth of 11%. IT as a percentage of total revenue was 21% in the quarter, up $85,000,000 year over year. We continue to see strong demand for our business solutions with overall IP portfolio growth of 12.4% year over year or 7.7% in constant currency.

Speaker 2

Year over year IP revenue growth in constant currency was strong within the following industries: Government, up 19%, communications and utilities, up 14% and health up 9%. The number of consultants and professionals increased year over year by 3,000 totaling now 91,500 worldwide. We booked $4,400,000,000 of Contract wins in the quarter, up nearly 30% year over year. As a result, Our Q3 book to bill ratio was a robust 121 percent led by U. S.

Speaker 2

Federal With a book to bill ratio of 206%, Canada at 121%, Scandinavia and Central Europe at 117% and Western and Southern Europe at 116%. Importantly, managed services made up 57% of total bookings, up significantly from 48% in the prior year. On a trailing 12 month basis, our book to bill ratio reached 113% with all of our proximity geographic segments having a book to bill above 100% on the same basis. Overall, our global backlog reached a record of $25,600,000,000 representing 1.8x revenue. Turning to profitability.

Speaker 2

Earnings before income taxes were $559,000,000 up 14.3 percent year over year for a margin of 15.4%. Adjusted EBIT in Q3 was $585,000,000 up 12.5% year over year. This represents a margin of 16.1%, up 10 basis points year over year. This increase was driven by the combination of profitable revenue growth and operational discipline despite less available days to build due to the timing of statutory holidays in Europe. We delivered strong margin in the following segments: Asia Pacific at 31.1 percent Canada at 22.3 percent U.

Speaker 2

S. Federal at 17.7 percent, U. S. Commercial and State Government at 17.3%. Our effective tax rate in Q3 was 25.8% compared to 25.5% in the prior year.

Speaker 2

When excluding acquisition related and integration costs, our effective tax rate was 25.6% compared to 25 0.5%. Net earnings improved to $415,000,000 up 13.9% when compared to Q3 last year for a margin of 11.5%. Diluted EPS was $1.75 representing an increase of 15.9% year over year. When excluding acquisition related and integration costs Associated with prior year acquisitions, net earnings improved to $426,000,000 up 14.7% when compared to Q3 last year for a margin of 11.7%. On the same basis, diluted EPS was $1.80 an accretion of 16.9% when compared to $1.54 in Q3 last year.

Speaker 2

This improvement was mainly driven by the execution of our Build and buy profitable growth strategy and to a lesser extent the impact of favorable foreign exchange rates. In the quarter, Cash provided by operating activities was $409,000,000 compared to $419,000,000 in the prior year. DSO was 44 days in the quarter, in line with our target of 45 days. For the last 12 months, Cash provided by operating activities improved to $2,000,000,000 representing 14.1% of revenue. In Q3, we invested $102,000,000 into our business and $53,000,000 to buy back our stock.

Speaker 2

As of the end of June, as per our approved NCIB program, we have the opportunity to buy back up to an additional 15,000,000 shares. In the quarter, we continued to deliver a strong return on invested capital at 15.7% demonstrating our efficient deployment of capital. Looking ahead, Our focus continues to be on delivering value to our shareholders by investing in our business, pursuing accretive acquisitions and repurchasing our stock and or paying down our debt. CGI has a strong balance sheet with a net debt to capitalization ratio of 21.7% at the end of June, as well as $3,000,000,000 of cash readily available and access to more if needed. While M and A activity in the IT Services industry has slowed significantly due to a gap in valuation expectation Versus current market realities, CGI believes that our disciplined approach will result in higher quality mergers for the benefit of our stakeholders.

Speaker 2

Moving forward, CGI has the strength and capital resources to continue to execute on both Our build and buy profitable growth strategy. Now I will turn the call to George to further discuss insights and outlook for our business And Mark Yap. George?

Speaker 3

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. Our team again delivered quarterly results in line with our Full year plan. We achieved constant currency revenue growth of 6.3%, which is at or ahead of the markets in which we operate. Double digit EPS accretion of 16.9% on an adjusted basis sustained EBIT margin expansion up 10 basis points year over year on an adjusted basis. Bookings of $4,400,000,000 up nearly $1,000,000,000 compared to the same quarter last year.

Speaker 3

Continued high engagement of CGI consultants and professionals, resulting in lower employee attrition levels on both a quarter over quarter and year over year basis and continued high client satisfaction levels as rated and signed by client executives, demonstrating the deep confidence they have in our people and capabilities. The strong quarterly bookings were driven by client awards for managed services with a book to bill ratio of 120% and IP engagements with a book to bill of 120%. These larger engagements increasingly also incorporate consulting and This combination of CGI's end to end services reflects the ongoing rise in client demand for broader, more holistic partnerships to help clients realize cost savings and advance their digitization objectives. In both Managed Services and IT, the highest proportion of bookings were awarded within our 2 largest industry segments, government and financial services. For example, the Managed Services, the U.

Speaker 3

S. Environmental Protection Agency awarded CGI Federal a multiyear managed services This contract valued at US522 $1,000,000 We will partner to reimagine the agency's IT portfolio at the application, platform and enterprise levels in support of their mission to protect human health and the environment. This award renewed CGI's incumbent work and included an increase of enterprise development scope of over 45%. And Bank Euro, Sweden's payments clearinghouse extended their long term partnership with CGI through a $62,000,000 agreement to enhance system efficiency, uphold stringent security and unlock opportunities to drive future innovation across the payment sector. And examples of IP bookings include a government ministry in Germany extended its partnership with CGI on the implementation of CGI's Egov 360 solution for electronic file and data management.

Speaker 3

This will enable the ministry to increase agility and drive seamless integration and interoperability. U. S. Department of Veteran Affairs increased funding to support the implementation of CGI's Momentum IP in support of the agency's financial management business transformation program. And in the financial services sector, we signed 28 agreements for our recently transformed cloud native credit studio solution with clients in the U.

Speaker 3

S, Canada, U. K. And Australia. Our solution incorporates AI and helps clients address the continued tightening of credit markets. 2 thirds of these awards were for net new business.

Speaker 3

A high proportion of managed services and IP in our overall bookings Led to a greater size and duration of project awards this quarter. In fact, 40% of total bookings in Q3 were comprised of deals over $50,000,000 This is compared to 13% in the same quarter last year. Over the past several quarters, we anticipated these client buying shifts given our day to day engagement with clients and through our annual Voice of Our Clients proprietary research. This research serves as an important global antenna to help identify the top priorities for clients now

Speaker 4

and over the coming years.

Speaker 3

Last quarter, I shared some preliminary findings from our discussions with over 17 50 executives in 21 industry sectors around the world. Our research indicates that clients are now heavily relying on Managed Services and IP to implement, optimize and manage their transformation programs in order to achieve the expected return on investment. In our research, 25 executives cited legacy systems among the key barriers to successful digitization. This demonstrates the need to ensure that solution strategies address the complexity of modernizing current systems and integrating with new systems and processes. Our managed services offerings focus on providing client savings, which are then coupled with reinvestment to drive modernization, industrialization and organizational agility.

Speaker 3

And our IP, including IP enabled business Our analysis also underscores that C suite executives are applying a sharper focus in their decision making to determine the highest return investments. This is shaping most of their key program priorities. CGI, they call this ROI led digital transformation and is at the core of our partnership approach with clients. Many of the executives we spoke with cited the challenging economic environment as the key driver for sharpening their focus is requiring them to prioritize cost savings while simultaneously Advancing digitization to improve competitiveness, resilience and customer experience. This dual digital agenda Continues to generate demand for all of CGI's end to end services as clients now require consulting partners that can design connected strategies, to bridge vision and real world implementation to deliver expected results.

Speaker 3

We are proactively working with our clients to translate their business objectives and the tangible engagements with clear and measurable business cases, such as for a leading natural gas services company, we are deploying Care provider better predict and lower the cost of care while reducing processing time by 90%. We're developing a business vision and subsequent roadmap for achieving the future state digital environment, including data monetization for a clinical services company. And we are helping transform the small business loan processes for a multinational bank, reducing cycle time from 17 days to 2 days. Turning to our buy strategy. In Q3, CGI successfully completed the integration of all prior year acquisitions according to plan.

Speaker 3

As Steve just mentioned, current M and A activity has slowed across the entire IT services industry. This, however, does not change the CGI strategy. Our appetite and capacity for M and A remains high and we continue to have a very active program in terms of sourcing, interactive dialogues and due diligence assessment. Closing accretive M and A transaction takes rigor and discipline, And we remain committed to making sure that we acquire the right companies at the right price at the right time, all three without exception. Looking ahead to the coming quarters, we believe the ongoing macro uncertainty in the political and economic environment will intensify client efforts to prioritize ROI led digitization.

Speaker 3

This,

Speaker 2

coupled with

Speaker 3

the demand for broader, more holistic transformation programs, will serve to put some pressure on client decision cycles as some executives trade off Speed of action or ROI based business cases. For CGI, these buying patterns continue to favor our managed services and IP offerings. We continue to be actively engaged in later stage opportunity pursuits with multiple prospective clients in every geography. In each case, we work collaboratively with client executives to build solutions that combine and tailor the right mix of CGI services to address the organization's business objectives. The evolution of our business mix to include more managed services and IP will serve as an enabler to continue to drive CGI margin expansion and improve EPS, even as sales cycles And as we incorporate higher proportions of global delivery into these services, Our client value proposition increases as does CGI's profitability.

Speaker 3

From perspective, we see client demand in the near term as follows. In asset intensive industries such as manufacturing, retail In Energy and Utilities, client demand for efficiency and agility are paramount. We see organizations seeking to reduce the cost to operate in order to fund new investments. As such, our managed services pipeline for these industry sectors over the next year is up by more than 33% The IPI pipeline is up 30%. In banking, many clients are reassessing their priorities and the supporting IT investments given economic conditions and continuing central bank interest rate hikes.

Speaker 3

This is resulting in stable but slower demand for SI and C and increasing demand for managed services. On a sequential quarter basis, pipeline in managed services is up nearly 20%. And in government, healthcare and insurance, Clients are accelerating their digital transformation agendas. For these industries, CGI's pipeline remains well balanced across consulting, are increasingly engaged in discussions about the future use of generative AI, how to prepare data strategies to be ready for AI implementation and how it integrates into clients' digital transformation agendas. We have extensive experience in delivering intelligent automation and AI technologies as part of our services and solutions over the past several years, notably in our IP.

Speaker 3

The responsible use of AI is part of CGI's management foundation, ensuring the ethical and disciplined use of AI by all CGI professionals and in line with evolving AI regulations. This serves as our foundation to engage in broad based AI discussions with our clients. In fact, CGI teams are actively working with Clients will use AI in a wide range of projects, a few of which include improving effectiveness and efficiency of city services, Detecting and preventing water pollution, predicting cracks in steel manufacturing, reviewing CT scans to detect brain hemorrhages and using earth observation data to locate, quantify and track seagrass metrics. As AI progresses in new ways, including generative AI, We will innovate with our clients while balancing the responsible use of this evolving technology. Earlier this week, we announced our plan to allocate $1,000,000,000 of spend over the next 3 years to expand our AI services and solutions.

Speaker 3

We work in partnership with clients who are seeking to responsibly move From experimentation to full scale implementation and accelerate time to value of their investments by leveraging new AI technologies. CGI's AI investments through both build and buy will be prioritized across 4 dimensions. End to end offerings expansion, including an AI business consulting methodology, IT platforms and prebuilt solutions. Talent, capacity and capability, which will include the training of our existing consultants, hiring of new expertise and formation of communities of interest across all CGI Accelerate AI usage. Go to market strategies to increase awareness of CGI's AI offerings through the publication of thought leadership And establishing new partnership channels, the global alliances and operational and delivery excellence to drive efficiencies and benefits for clients and CGI through expanded AI use.

Speaker 3

In closing, CGI's broad mix of end to end services, Balanced geographic footprint and portfolio of clients across industries creates a resilient foundation for us to sustain our position As a partner of choice for our clients, an employer of choice for consultants and professionals and an investment of choice for our shareholders. Our investments in build and buy are made with this resilience in mind and to continuously strengthen Our competitive differentiation. Thank you for your interest and support. Let's go to the questions now. Kevin?

Speaker 1

Thanks, George. Shelby, please share with the participants how the queue for questions.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Followed by 1 on your touchtone phone. You will then hear a 3 tone prompt acknowledging your request. And your first question will be from Richard Tse of National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Yes. Thank you. This sort of AI team obviously is quite notable. Just in terms of The partnerships that you have with some of the leading players in the market today, can you maybe expand in terms of the level of So for example, I guess one of the leaders is Microsoft and maybe give us a sense of like your level of Engagement on sort of what their plans are going forward?

Speaker 3

Yes. Yes. No, thanks for the question, Richard. Yes, we are engaged with all of our global alliance partners actively looking to both Leverage what they're doing with our intellectual property, which is a big element of our global alliance partnerships, But also then to further that together. And so, I can't talk about anything specific yet, but We engaged in forging some formal partnerships go to market with that and that's part of what this investment announcement was about.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 5

And then in terms of where you sit within that sort of ecosystem, what do you see in terms of the most Common use cases that your clients are looking to address with AI here going forward in their enterprises?

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, current point in time, the use cases are what you've heard about on some of the Call center activities are very specific opportunities like some of the examples I gave as far as Looking at the brain scans that we're doing with the hospital in the Nordics or looking at the environment like we're doing with Partnering with some space based agencies in governments in U. K. So they're very more point solutions, but I I can tell you the conversations we're having are much broader and it's really about what is the art of the possible And part of that first step is getting the data and the shape that needs to be in order to Train these models on trusted data that then can be leveraged. So we're still, I would say, in the very early days.

Speaker 3

I mentioned we're still in the early innings of digitization at large on even earlier days of AI. But What I see is clients are really looking at the broadest applications of where AI could make a difference.

Speaker 2

Okay, great.

Speaker 5

And one last quick one here for me. Like there's certainly a lot of puts and takes in terms of the outlook going forward here and then some of your Competitors have talked about perhaps, tying off sort of staffing, given some price Competition in the market, how do you sort of see the next few quarters playing out just from kind of like an operating cost perspective? Are you Kind of in the position you want to be, is there a potential to sort of take out some costs? Just maybe give us a sense of how that should play out here over the remainder of the calendar year?

Speaker 3

Yes, we're pretty pleased with the position you're in. Those strong bookings driven by IP and larger managed services deals. We anticipated and we've talked about even on this call last quarter that that takes a little bit longer. We anticipated some of the shift From SI and C to the IP and managed services, we do along the way, anytime you're doing a shift And buying behaviors, we've been very active in training, retaining, rotating Our people to the areas of strength and then of course taking actions where need be where those aren't completely aligned. That's all in the numbers already.

Speaker 3

And so we don't see anything big having to be done. Like I said, we see the continued strength in margin driven by the profitable growth, but also the global delivery. The business mix towards IP and managed services, which we talked about before, that's a tailwind for us. Our turnover is down, as I mentioned, And utilization is actually up. So we feel like we're in a pretty good position to move forward And the shift and of course the planned investment in data and AI is just to drive that future wave of growth Further down the line.

Speaker 2

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Thanos Moschopoulos at Bigel Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Hi, good morning. George, related to the AI investments, would it be reasonable to expect That your investment in IP might take a step up as a percentage of revenue in the coming quarters years Or is that going to be more a function of case by case basis evaluating projects and clients taking them to your IP investment committee? Yes, it's

Speaker 3

going to be more balanced. What we do with the IP, as you're aware, we don't build it and they will come. We always do that in concert with our clients. We've already been making some of the investments in our IP With AI and we have the Pulse AI framework that I talked about last quarter. So that's been part of that.

Speaker 3

It's going to be more measured. That's why I announced it over a 3 year period. It'll be block step with our clients. Now over time, it could the investment could go up if the demand curve follows that. And I will tell you that in general, As we continue to have stronger bookings and higher revenue growth in IP than the rest of our business, we have been Over the last several years ramping up the investment we made in IP, but again always focused on making sure we have that solid Return on investment and doing that in concert with our clients.

Speaker 3

In many cases, when we make an investment in IP, we already have Letters of intent or in some cases signed contracts with clients that support that investment. Of Of course, we're making the investment, but we already know the business is there and we're working in concert with the clients. We're going to do the same thing with

Speaker 6

Great. And then just drilling into the Canadian business, there was some deceleration during the quarter, organic growth slightly negative. I think Partielo's Financial Services. Can you speak to that? Do you see that as being transient?

Speaker 6

What are you hearing from customers? And I I saw that the Canadian government recently awarded a very large contract to Skylane, I think, as a client of yours.

Speaker 7

Is that something that's meaningful for

Speaker 6

the Canadian business, If you

Speaker 3

could provide some color? Thanks. Yes. So, well, maybe I'll start with the Skyline. You did see that the big announcement It's really a down select to 1.

Speaker 3

We are part of that consortium. In fact, we are the IT provider as part of that large 20 plus year deal. It is still even though it's down selected to 1, it is still an active Solicitation, so that's all I can say there. It's not in the bookings, of course, that's a tailwind for the future for the Canadian business And underscores again the strength of government spending around the world. As far as the quarter goes, we did have A bit of a tough comparable.

Speaker 3

We had a one time last year and you can see the spike in growth last year At this time, so it was a tougher comparable. But in general, yes, we think that it's pretty temporary as the financial services It goes through some of this adjustment and shift in priorities. We had a strong 121 Book to bill in the quarter, look at the trailing 12 months is, I think, 108% on a trailing 12 month basis. The bookings in the quarter were underscored by large managed services deals, including in financial services, so kind of showing some of that The shift. So, we believe we're going to return to growth next quarter and it was really more of a blip there in Canada this quarter.

Speaker 3

Great. Thanks, George. I'll pass the line.

Speaker 6

Yes.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Stephanie Price at CIBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Good morning. Maybe speaking with the government sector, the U. S. Federal bookings were quite strong in the quarter. Just curious if you could talk a little bit about what's driving that growth and how you think about demand in the vertical maybe more broadly for the remainder of the year?

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, I think government, as we've discussed for some time, is strong around the world because it is more of a Counter cyclical avenue of growth for us and of course it's our largest single sector and yes Very strong in the U. S. Federal, which we anticipated because a lot of the spend has been Backloaded for the last couple of years in federal. You might remember we had a very strong book to bill in the Q4 of last year.

Speaker 3

It's tended to be back loaded. And just to remind you, in the U. S. Federal government, the fiscal year ends at the end of September, same as the CGI Fiscal year. And we see that same thing going that same phenomenon going on that The U.

Speaker 3

S. Federal government is kind of behind in their spending and part of that has been because the procurement just can't keep up with the demand. Underscoring that is government needs to digitize, government needs to put new policies in place. They've been very active in the environment. Heard the EPA win that we've had this quarter.

Speaker 3

So I think it's a combination of those factors. And then just the slowing economy, Government tends to get more active and we've seen that in Germany, we've seen that in the UK, So the strong bookings and performance in the UK and you know that UK has an even higher percentage of government work We're a strategic partner to the UK government. So, a lot of goodness there. We also see space becoming more of an area and I'm talking about outer space now, Becoming more of an area of opportunity to leverage really the space based data And connect it with digitization and technologies like AI To really unlock some value and solve some real world problems, including in kind of government's form of ROI led Digitization, which is really furthering and bettering communities for citizens.

Speaker 8

Great color. Thanks. And then just one more from me. Just on the M and A market, you mentioned a few times in your prepared remarks that there is a valuation gap that you're seeing. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?

Speaker 8

And just on capital allocation, if M and A is lower, should we expect more of a focus on share buybacks here?

Speaker 3

Yes. The M and A market has been a bit uncertain along with the economy itself. But the difference in the valuations is you got sellers that are hanging on to 2021 valuations and buyers that are looking at 20 23 and beyond valuations and not unlike the housing market, there's A dearth of opportunities out there. But we're going to be patient on that. We'll continue to we do have an active pipeline.

Speaker 3

There's no big late stage opportunities, but I always say it's wait and hurry up, hurry up and wait And in the M and A market, so we have a very active pipeline. I'm personally engaged in some of the discussions. So we're just going to keep at it and make sure that we do the right accretive acquisitions. As far as capital allocation goes, yes, first is investing back in our business and you heard the investments we're making in AI and IP And those types of activities that will be accretive because that's what we'll that's how we're going to measure them. But behind the if we don't have the accretive acquisitions to include in that, Yes, it does provide us the opportunity to do stock buybacks and we see that as a still very accretive way to return cash to shareholders and so we'll be active on that.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Divya Goyal at Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Good morning, everyone. George, I might have missed it, but I wanted to confirm this AI investment that you've announced, So is it fair to assume that some of the discussions and early stage projects that you're seeing here, Are they going to add to the consulting side of revenue before they get into the execution side of things? And would any of Such revenue will be currently factored into the book to bill that you've mentioned here.

Speaker 3

Yes. No, it's a very good Insight you derive there. Yes, the early days are a little bit more on the consulting, helping clients think this through, Put their own frameworks for responsible use into place, do some of the experimentation. So it will be Not just the consulting, the consulting and system integration as opposed to whole scale Managed services type opportunities are broader engagements. And so, yes, some of that's actually in the bookings, So that's actually in, as I mentioned, we're actively doing some

Speaker 1

of this now. So some

Speaker 3

of that's actually in the revenue. And I'll remind you, even though I highlighted And the IP, we still did have solid bookings in SI and C, Decelerating, but still strong and as we shift to more of that managed services and those other opportunities. And the other is and I mentioned this as well, some of the managed services we do when we're doing modernization, There is a small consulting and systems integration component that could have AI that's buried in that managed service. So It's hard to kind of separate that out. And of course, as I mentioned, it's part of our IP as well.

Speaker 3

So it really spans all of those end to end services. But you're right, back to your first question, a little more on the front end than the back end for now.

Speaker 9

That's helpful. Just going to the regular business here, have you been seeing or noticing a lot of pricing pressure in the market And is it more pronounced in certain geographies or certain sectors, if at all?

Speaker 3

Yes. No, it's a good question. As clients look For cost savings, there's 2 ways for them to get that, right? There's the ROI led Digitization opportunities, where we're providing maybe some opportunities for them to grow their business And become more efficient with a point solution. There's another way to get that.

Speaker 3

It's through that longer engagement of managed services Through scale and we can provide them some of those cost savings upfront and then drive those efficiencies through a longer engagement and monetization. And then there's pricing. And when it's just straight pricing, we tend not to engage as much. And yes, we are seeing some and you always see that it's on a slowdown like this. You see some what I would call bad behaviors by some competitors that might And these are usually more local providers that drive just rate decreases.

Speaker 3

And these are some of the same players that actually maybe went overboard on the salary wage increases. And so I think they're going to get caught and that's an opportunity for us to take market share. They stumble. We've already seen some of that And some of our European clients where they stumble from delivery and just because you have a lower rate doesn't mean You're going to get the value. And so we come in with our more mature way of providing the savings and I think that's an opportunity for us Take market share in the intermediate term.

Speaker 3

But in the short term, yes, you always see that during a slow

Speaker 9

Yes. That's very helpful. Just my last question on the cash flow from operations. So looking at how the CFO has historically trended, It looks like this quarter working capital was a use of cash and Steve mentioned the SO was in line with expectation, But it looks like your payables were a little bit more tightened up. So was there a rationale for that?

Speaker 2

Yes. Ultimately, we used less subcontractors In the quarter, so obviously it's the timing element that we have in the accrual And also the accrued for performance based compensation had an impact on the cash So from operations, but it's really a timing. So when we look at it on, let's say, on a year to date basis, You see the growth. We grew by more than €100,000,000 in the cash flow from operation. So and what we're really watching, as you mentioned, is DSO.

Speaker 2

In this Economic time, we want to make sure that our clients are paying and they are. So we are really, really focused on the collection. In terms of the accrual, it's really timing.

Speaker 9

That's helpful. Thanks, Steve. Thanks, George.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Paul Treiber at RBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Thanks very much and good morning. George, just regarding AI, I mean, you've been through a number of industry shifts in the past, And a big one is being like mobile and the cloud. How do you compare the enthusiasm from your customers and the interest from your customers regarding AI Versus previous tech cycles? And then secondly, just looking forward, how Quickly, do you think that enthusiasm will convert to bookings compared to past investment cycles?

Speaker 3

Yes. No, thanks for the question. Yes. Here's what I see. I see this wave and disruptive technology being a bit of an evolution of mobile and cloud, both of which enabled us to really drove a proliferation Of data that's out there and really AI is the ability to unlock some of that the value Attached to all of that data.

Speaker 3

So now having said that, so I think that's what's driving some of the enthusiasm and because It's really building on some of the earlier technologies and ways that we've gone through. Having said that, I think it's the it's not so much the willingness to have the adoption, but it's really having the data and the models Ready to actually benefit from this is going to be really important. We kind of see the AI in our discussions with clients, it's Really evolving around 3 key principles. 1 is the trust having the closed data That's where ownership and the data providence is really, verifiable and that's going to be important for any of the regulation that goes out there. Transparency and for us part of that is having a human within the AI loop that you actually And verify again the bias that's there or not there and align the AI with the company's direction and values.

Speaker 3

And so that's going to be an element of this. And the reason I'm mentioning these, Paul, is these take some time. And I don't think it's a dampening on the enthusiasm, just these things take some time. And then last, where you want to get to is you're going to make the individuals and experts more productive. It's It's not going to work the other way.

Speaker 3

You're not going to make lay people experts and those that kind of skip the first two and try to go to that level, I think are going to run into some And that's why we're doing some of the starting off with some of the consulting, because it really at the end of the day, we think it's going to be the business value that you Add to the AI, not the value that you extract from the AI. And that isn't dissimilar to mobile and cloud, quite frankly.

Speaker 6

On your last point about making experts more productive, one of the things that AI is being or generative AI is being touted as It's streamlining programming. How do you see generative AI impacting the IT service as a core Function of IT services in terms of product development and maintenance, do you see IT services ultimately benefiting from that Efficiency or potentially is it a longer term headwind that customers maybe can be more productive themselves?

Speaker 3

No, I think it's going to be a tailwind, but the reality is it's going to shift the way That developers work, which is why we're investing to make sure we equip our Experts to leverage and work side by side with the AI to be more productive. I think it's also probably going to shift the way pricing and buying occurs, shift it even more so towards output driven Activities maybe even disassociate the pricing, which right now is still At least in SI and C tightly associated with labor, I think it's going to disassociate that to more output based Pricing like you see with an intellectual property product. So I think there are going to be some shifts that we're going to go through. There's There's some puts and takes, but at the end of the day, I think it's going to be a tailwind for the industry, much like previous disruptive technologies have been.

Speaker 6

That's interesting. I'm glad you provided your perspective. Just one last question for me. Just you called out a number of metrics regarding your pipeline. Can you I might have missed it, but can you summarize that into the total pipeline?

Speaker 6

I think last quarter you called out,

Speaker 1

I think it was total pipeline

Speaker 6

up 15% quarter over quarter. Now how does your total pipeline look here?

Speaker 3

No, I don't have that in front of me because I've been really focused on the shift To the managed services, typically that drives the overall pipeline even higher because as I mentioned those are larger deals. But let me get that number to you, okay?

Speaker 6

All right. Thank you. I'll pass 1.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Daniel Chen at TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Hey, George. You guys continue to demonstrate some pretty resilient growth here, whereas some of your peers are exercising caution or even revising their guidance lower. What are you attributing your relative outperformance to? What are you guys doing differently or better than your peers that's allowing you to win market share here?

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, I think one is really that shift to both managed services, which we know takes a little bit longer, but Also that IP. And I mentioned that, for example, in banking, you see some of the slowing of the straight SI and C activities, but we have a lot of banking IP. And So that's enabling us to counteract that in a lot of ways. 2nd is that, as I mentioned, we've been doing the shift to managed services, anticipating this for a while, getting a little bit ahead of it.

Speaker 3

And so we have had some bookings from 6, 9 months ago that are now coming online. And that's the one caution, right, is that you win an SI and C deal and it started on a Friday and it starts on Monday and you're billing. You went a large managed services deal on a Friday and it can take 3, 6, 9 months before you're seeing revenue on that. But we did that early and so we're weathering some of that with some of what we had done in prior quarters. And the other is government.

Speaker 3

It's unlike some of our competitors, it's a large element. We always Suggest that we like that base because of the countercyclical nature and that allows us to work In different markets and still be able to grow and that's and you saw the 11% growth And government this quarter.

Speaker 4

That's helpful. Thanks for that. And then you mentioned the bookings Conversion timeline taking 3 to 9 months. The bookings or the book to bill for your last few quarters has been really strong. Should we Extrapolate that to suggest that you could we could see some accelerating growth in the second half of the calendar year, especially as those bookings start converting to revenue?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think what I would say is we definitely see that all the indicators, those bookings And even the pipeline and what we see in the near term point to stronger growth in the intermediate term. Like I said, it does take a little longer and we're counteracting and you saw that this quarter, counteracting some of the shorter term Slow down, but I think in the intermediate term, that's when all the indicators point to A good growth path there. Great. Thanks, George.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Suthan Sukumar at Stifel. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Good morning. Just wanted to chime quickly on managed services. It's good to see you guys are Well positioned here to capture the strength that you're seeing in the demand backdrop. Can you talk a little bit about how your discussions with And how sales cycles have been trending here more recently? And are you seeing opportunity for pricing power given the strength in demand?

Speaker 3

Yes. No, it's a good question. When you the discussions that we're having right now, In many cases, our 1 on 1 discussions, so they're more engaged with the client As a sole partner, it's really around getting the value proposition for them right. And you're right in one way, I wouldn't call it pricing power, but what I'd say is when you can get that value proposition right, They're less concerned about what your pricing is or isn't. And so really it's a matter of getting close To the client going through, we have something we call proof of value process that really engages directly with the business and the IT Individuals to kind of drive the right value proposition.

Speaker 3

And in many cases, there's a big win win in that situation. It does take longer. So it's pipeline to booking and booking to revenue takes a little longer, But the payoff is very good for both top and bottom line.

Speaker 4

Got you. Thank you. The second question I had was more on just the context of your outlook for greater investments in How are you thinking about headcount growth going forward as you start to invest in these AI capabilities, it's starting

Speaker 1

to become more efficient internally?

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, I touched on this earlier. I think we will see some Distance and disassociation of just a in order to get a dollar of revenue, you need to add A dollar of labor. And I think you're going to see some more disassociation just like we have with our IP. And you can see our labor grew this quarter less than our overall growth.

Speaker 3

And part of that is because IP is growing faster And of course, we have assets that are driving some of that revenue. In this case, it's going to be the higher productivity. Again, if we can do that in a value based pricing, it's going to change that equation.

Speaker 4

Thank you for taking my questions. I'll pass 1. Yes.

Operator

Thank you. Next question will be from Jerome Dubreuil at Desjardins.

Speaker 4

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my So first question is on the headcount. We've seen it's up a bit, but I mean it's understandable given the bookings and And the growth trends. But I want to dive in really what's the current mindset? Have you been more careful than usual given Your clients have been well, telling you about the macro.

Speaker 4

Are you preparing for markets to turn around? Just want No, about the mindset regarding the headcount.

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, we've been very prudent as always And hiring more for the known projects and known demand, with turnover, Again, trending down both sequentially and year over year, it gives us more of that opportunity. Some of that hiring ahead Had to be done because of the some of the turnover. So we're seeing a shift in that. We have Strong attraction and retention value proposition, starts with our ownership, but then of course our training and support And our proximity model, which kind of gives less wear and tear on our consultants having to travel, All that plays in and so we're able to be a little more prudent in the hiring and still be positioned for that intermediate Growth, but also make sure that we're not in a place where we're underutilized at any point in time from a cost perspective.

Speaker 3

And I mentioned when you're doing that shift, we've been taking any actions that need to be done in order to drive that. But we'll continue to hire And grow and AI will be part of that, but it's not the only driver in that.

Speaker 4

Okay, great. And then second question is on AI too. What are the type of clients that are willing to pay first for AI? I mean, you're And high exposure to government, I guess, we can imagine that the government might not be one of the first clients I'm going to jump on that wagon. So what type of clients are you seeing are willing to take about?

Speaker 3

Well, The top innovators tend to be banking and healthcare right now and that's pretty consistent with other ways of Technology, we also have a lot of data that you can unlock, the power of that with those 2 industries. But I'll tell you what's interesting is we see government as a potential early adopter. We're having very good discussions with Government, lots of interest here, because they kind of fell behind, right? And so they may need this more than other industries and probably are more capable of managing The regulatory environment and the trusted environment, just given their size and scale and scope. I think they have some drivers that could make them an actual early adopter.

Speaker 3

We'll see, but that's kind of what we see right now.

Speaker 4

Yes, and their own involvement in regulatory too. So thanks for the color.

Speaker 2

Yes, yes.

Operator

Thank you.

Speaker 1

Hi, Silvi. Hi. Sylvie, we've got time for one more question, please.

Operator

Certainly, sir. Last question will be from Rob Young at Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you. The comments through the call that you've had some discussion around sales cycle lengthening, Longer conversion, it's a bit of a trend, I think, in enterprise just in general. And so I think you've been emphasizing that it's Driven in CGI's case around managed services and the longer sales cycle associated With that, maybe some pivot towards ROI based programs. I was just curious if you could give us Maybe a summary why you think that this shouldn't be viewed as a demand driven, if I'm correct, that sales cycle is lengthening?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think you're correct in the overall summary, but I think when I look at that, Demand is still strong. It's just the timing of that demand. And so as you make any kind of shift and we anticipated this, I talked about this the last few quarters. As you have that shift, there's just some disruption there.

Speaker 3

But the overall demand environment we see is very strong. And in fact, the overall demand we see maybe moving more in the favor of A global provider like CGI with the end to end services, with the intellectual property, with some of the investments that we continue to make To be on the front end of that, to maybe be even a consolidator of some Some of that demand absorbing that may be even faster than some of the others in the marketplace. So that's why You hear the optimism despite the fact that you've got some short term bumps That are inevitable when you do a shift like this. So that's and you see it in the bookings, right? That's where the confidence

Speaker 5

comes from.

Speaker 7

Okay, that's great. If I squeeze one last one. Yes. I think one of the themes here that you're trying to get across is that you see a net positive impact or Net expansion of margins as you look forward, you highlight a whole lot of positive drivers like the mix of managed services, IP, global delivery, And then utilization improving with maybe slightly slower hiring. But on the other side of it, like where do you see some of the negatives?

Speaker 7

Price pressure came up, Maybe longer sales cycle, maybe the investment, like despite you view it as a net positive, like what might be some of the headwinds you have to deal

Speaker 3

Yes. Well, you mentioned some of them well. There's the short term Helping your clients through some of this short term period is Maybe a short term headwind, but a long term stronger partnership and I've talked a lot about The importance of partnership, particularly when clients are going through what they're going through right now. So That's why I'm net positive, but I think you highlighted the right areas.

Speaker 6

Okay. Thanks for taking the questions.

Operator

Thank you. Please proceed with your closing remarks.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Sylvia, and thanks everyone for participating. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available either via our website or by dialing 1-eight seventy seven-six seventy four-seven thousand and seventy And using the passcode 098,618, as well a podcast of this call will be available for download within a few hours. Follow-up questions can be directed to me at 1-nine 0 five-nine 7three-eight thousand three hundred and sixty three. Thanks again everyone and look forward to speaking soon.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this does indeed conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. And at this time, we do ask that you please disconnect your lines.

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Earnings Conference Call
CGI Q3 2023
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