Vinci Partners Investments Q2 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
August 10, 2023

There are 9 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good afternoon and welcome to the Vince Partners Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in listen only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, this call will be recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Anna Castro, Investor Relations Manager.

Operator

Please go ahead, Anna.

Speaker 1

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Joining today are Alessandro Ota, Chief Executive Officer Bruno Zaremba, Private Equity Chairman and Head of Investor Relations and Sergio Pazos, Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today, we issued a press release, slide presentation and our financial statements for the quarter, which are available on our website at ir. Vinciapartners.com. I'd like to remind you that today's call may include forward looking statements which are uncertain and outside of the firm's control and may differ from actual results materially.

Speaker 1

We do not undertake any duty to update these statements. For a discussion of some of the risks that could affect results, please see the Risk Factors section of our 20F. We will also refer to certain non GAAP measures, and you'll find reconciliations in the release. Also note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell With that, I'll turn the call over to Alison.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Anna. Good afternoon and thank you all for joining our call. We are very pleased To join you today as we announce results for Q2 of 2023. Adjusted distributable earnings totaled R70 $1,000,000 or R1.30 dollars per share, an increase of 18% In our cash earnings per share year over year, VINCI announced a quarter dividend of $0.20 on the dollar per common share. Over the last 12 months, we have distributed $0.73 per share as dividends Debt at the current stock price level represents a dividend yield close to 8%.

Speaker 2

Our fee related earnings totaled R51 $1,000,000 in the quarter or $0.94 per share represented an increase of 11% year over year on a per share basis, driven by the ongoing fundraising across our private market vehicles and a higher contribution from advisor fees this quarter. AUM reached R65 $1,000,000,000 at the end of the second quarter, up 9% year over year. This quarter, we had an important contribution from AUM appreciation Following the recovery in local markets, which pushed our public equities and REITs strategies to rise by 20% in average. This is one of the few quarters since our IPO That we benefit in a more significant manner from this effect. Since 2021, We have struggled to see a relevant impact from market appreciation as we faced challenging local markets and our AUM growth has been anchored mainly in new capital subscriptions and inflows.

Speaker 2

The strong results Posted for AUM, FRE and distributable earnings this quarter are, once again, A clear demonstration of the resilience of our platform. We have been discussing Constantly in our calls, our current focus in fundraising across our private market strategies And the impact these new capital commitments will have for our management fees. I am very confident In the prospects for the future quarters, as we now have additional to the fundraising for our private markets favorable Tailwinds for other segments such as our liquid strategies and our public market vehicles. We are now entering a much more constructive scenario for VINCI to start seeing positive inflows into Our liquid funds as local markets improve and the opportunity cost of a very high local interest rate lessens. On top of that, our public market vehicles with the recent appreciation are trading at prices Very close or above NAVs, which put us back in a position to raise capital through primary issuance.

Speaker 2

This contribution can be very meaningful to our numbers. We have 8 perpetual capital AUM funds with sizable NAVs. Once we have surpassed NAV prices, our public market vehicles should go back To be one of the main driving force for AUM growth, as we have seen from 2018 to 2021, When we grew AUM in this strategy by more than 5 times or R4 $1,000,000,000 This effect was a direct consequence of the market's expectation for the start of the easing cycle for interest rates, which Officially, they began last week as the Brazilian Central Bank announced the first cut in interest rates Since 2020 by 50 basis points and sent a clear indication for the easing process ahead of us. For instance, the market expects nominal rates to be at 11.75% by the end of the year and close to 9% by the end of 2024, decreasing nominal rates As highlighted before, the last easy cycle took place between 2017 to 2020. Back then, we grew AUM by roughly BRL 30,000,000,000, posting Expansion across all our business lines.

Speaker 2

At the same time, Zinci posted significant FRE margin expansion with close to a 20 percentage points gain in FRE margin. Keep in mind That our platform was not as developed as it is today. We have been actively working these last few years To be ready to take most of the opportunity once we had more favorable markets. I believe VINCI It's very well positioned for this new cycle, and we could not be more excited with the future ahead. Interest rates are going down and foreign sentiment towards Brazil is going up.

Speaker 2

Future ratings recently Raised Brazil's credit rating reflecting the improving economic outlook, federal budget control and record trade balance results. The upgraded rating connotes greater confidence in Brazil's ability to meet its financial obligations and attract investments And bodes well to a medium term investment grade that could be highly impactful. For instance, we are 2 notches away from the investment grade. Based on the past cycles, we expect to be awarded with the investment grade by 2025, this would mean a sizable flow from foreigners into Brazil across all strategies. Last time we had an investment grade, international capital held more than 20% of the domestic Brazilian debt.

Speaker 2

Today, this number is close to 9%. Given that the Brazilian debt is roughly 70% of the GDP, We could see flows of more than 7% of the Brazilian GDP over the years following the recovery of the investment grade. This represents an enormous opportunity to accelerate growth. It is worth mentioning That a significant part of price moves take place before the investment grade stamp is awarded. Also, SMP just put Brazil in positive outlook.

Speaker 2

To close my remarks, Let me provide an update of our fundraising efforts going forward for our closed end funds. The ICC, our climate oriented fund in infrastructure, continues to observe Lots of traction with institutional LPs. We should see new commitments coming throughout the second half of the year and the Fund is on track to reach its target by the first half of twenty twenty four. VCP4 just closed in July, an important capital raise with XP that will contribute to 3rd quarter numbers. We also should see new commitments from local institutional players in the second half of the year.

Speaker 2

And then, For the last and potentially more meaningful round of fundraising should come from our international piece, which we are aiming At the end of VCP's fundraise. Raising capital for traditional private equity funds has been a challenge For all of our global peers, we expect to see improvements on this front in the beginning of next year. Meanwhile, we have been experiencing an increase in appetite from local institutional players to alternatives. This reinforces the ongoing shift from Brazilian players towards alternatives. We are seeing this In an environment of historically high interest rates, with the easing cycle, we should see a pickup in this trend.

Speaker 2

Momentum is great for all of our strategies, and we are excited for the coming quarters. We will continue to work on delivering on all fronts we have discussed today and we'll keep you posted as we go along. Thank you for the attention and for attending our call today. With that, I'll turn it over to Bruno to go over our financial results.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Alessandro, and good afternoon, everyone. Starting on Slide 9, we will cover AUM trends for the Q2. Vici ended the quarter with BRL 65,000,000,000 in AUM, up 9% year over year, Driven by growth in our private market strategies over the last 12 months and appreciation markups across liquids and our REITs. Long term AUM accounted for BRL 33,000,000,000 in the quarter, increasing 20% year over year, Pushed by the appreciation in the REITs and our new capital commitments across private equity in front credits, it now represents more than 50% of Inch's Total AUM. This quarter, our AUM was positively impacted by market appreciation.

Speaker 3

For the past 2 years, we added long term commitments into our private strategies through organic and inorganic expansion. And this effect was partially offset by market depreciation across liquids. Now, we have started to benefit From the early stages of what we believe will be a very positive outlook ahead of us. During our last earnings call, we talked about how the depreciation in the REITs market Affected us and we anticipated that they should recover this quarter. At the end of the second quarter, Our REITs have more than fully recovered.

Speaker 3

Looking across our REIT universe, some have surpassed the threshold where they become eligible for future capital raises. With that said, we expect to see follow ons For the last 2 years, With rising and very high nominal interest rates in Brazil, primary issuance in the REITs was not possible. We bridged this period with creative, although lower volume, share for asset swaps. The REIT vertical has been a meaningful contributed to our fundraising in the past through significant primary issuances, and we are very happy to be at an inflection point where this contribution could once again be expected. We already have new issuances slated for the second half of the year.

Speaker 3

As previously mentioned by Alessandro, we will be active in the second half of the year with our 2 Main private equity style funds currently raising capital, VICC and VCP4. VCP4 just held a closing with that we impact Q3 numbers, as this fund will charge retroactive management fees on all subsequent closes until its final close. We are seeing great traction from locals for VCP4, and this will be the biggest allocation from local investors Since the inception of our VCP strategy. Apart from disclosing with Xpia, we should see new commitments for VCP until the end of the year. As we anticipated, international investors should be more impactful towards the final closing of the fund as they continue to digest global overallocation to the asset class.

Speaker 3

For VICC, we expect to see new commitments both in the 3rd and 4th quarters backed by international investors. The amount of traction obtained in this product was significant, with the first close of the fund representing more than 60% of the target amount. Even in positive market conditions, this would have been a great result. In the current environment, this result is remarkable. And a merit of the quality and track record of our infrastructure team.

Speaker 3

On a side note, we are on track to launch VIR5 This should be our next focus for new capital in private markets and carry our fundraising efforts in 2024. Moving on to slide 11, we go over crude performance fees in our private market funds. Gross accrued performance fee receivables accounted for BRL 180.6 million in the 2nd quarter, up 16% quarter over quarter. The VCP strategy currently accounts for roughly 90% of accrued performance fees, representing an appealing upside for future performance fees. With capital returns happening in SPS and ZIR, We expect the source of potential future performance fees from our private market verticals to be diversified in coming quarters.

Speaker 3

Turning to Slide 12, we will cover a few related revenues. Revenues from management Advisory fees totaled BRL 106.8 million in the quarter, up 11% year over year due to a combination of factors: 1st, the ongoing fundraising across private market strategies for funds that carry full fees, and we increase our average free rate once we close this fundraising cycle. 2nd, the acquisition of VINCI SPS. And third, a higher contribution from advisory fees in this quarter. We should see a continued positive Trend coming in the next few quarters following new capital raises across our private market segments.

Speaker 3

For VCP4 and VICC, We have another important contribution. As managed, additional capital commitments in these funds will redirect fees to the date of the fund's first closing. VCP's first closing was in the middle of 2022 and the impact of future closes could be meaningful. GICC started its 1st close at the end of the Q1 of 2023. In slide 13, we present our operating Expenses for the quarter year to date.

Speaker 3

Total expenses accounted for BRL61.4 million in the quarter, up 22% year over year. Excluding bonus compensation, operating expenses were up 10% year over year, driven mostly by the acquisition of VINCI SPS. On a more normalized base, total expenses were BRL113.5 million over the year to date, an increase of 15% compared to the same period last year. Moving on to slide 14, we go over our fee related earnings for the quarter. FRE totaled R50.7 million dollars or $0.94 per share in the quarter, up 11% year over year on a per share basis.

Speaker 3

Over the year, FRE was BRL100 million, up 10% when we compare with the first half of twenty twenty two, driven by the strong AUM expansion in our private market strategies and the higher contribution from advisory fees in the Q2 of 2023. Over the next quarters, we should see a positive impact in FRE coming from retroactive fees following new commitments in VCP4 and VICC. As those fees retract from the beginning of the Fund, they could be relevant additions to management fees. Despite a harsh environment, we were able to maintain margins with a disciplined cost control. We expect that concluding this fundraising cycle for private markets With a better outlook for local markets, we should start to see improvements in margins given the leverage potential of our platform.

Speaker 3

Turning to slide 15, we will cover our performance related earnings. BRE totaled BRL 5,400,000 in the quarter, an increase of 124% year over year, driven by contributions from liquid strategies. Although post modest results, we want to highlight the potential for performance fees from this moment onwards. Most of our funds carry high watermark clauses, which inhibits them to charge fees on the DAL market. With the recent appreciation of the liquids market, our funds are getting close to their high watermark, therefore Becoming eligible to charge fees once again.

Speaker 3

With the current market appreciation and the good law outlook for loser monetary policy in the second half of the year, We could once again show more meaningful PRA results in the Q4 potentially into 2024. Shifting to slide 16, we go over our realized GP investment and financial income. VINCI had BRL34.4 million Realized GP and financial income this quarter, up 38% on a year over year basis due to a good quarter for our liquid portfolio following a constructive local environment. Over the year to date, realized GDP and financial income totaled R60.3 million dollars represent an increase of 16% compared to the same period last year. Turning to slide 17, we go through our adjusted distributable earnings.

Speaker 3

Adjusted distributable earnings totaled BRL 70,400,000 or BRL 1.30 per share, up 18% year over year, backed by a higher contribution from financial income, FRE, and FRE. Adjusted EEA totaled BRL 130,400,000 or BRL 2.40 per share over the year to date, up 12% when compared to the same period last year. Moving on, I would like to cover our balance sheet highlights in Slide 18. As of the Q2, VICI had committed BRL 1,100,000,000 to proprietary close down funds. These commitments will work as seed investments in our funds to leverage fundraising with LPs and drive future growth in private markets' FRE results, backed by long term capital.

Speaker 3

These commitments also represent a relevant medium to long term potential return, as the realized gains from these funds will be recognized at realized GP investment income in our quarterly earnings. Considering that private market Funds have above average target returns. This could be extremely relevant to earnings in the future. Lastly, I would like to touch on a topic we talked about last quarter. We have proprietary positions in several REITs that suffered from market depreciation last quarter, resulting in a negative impact in our net income.

Speaker 3

Back then, we anticipated That these funds could recover in the Q2. We would like to share that these funds have more than fully recovered over the Q2, which explains the strong accounting net income this quarter. And with that, I will turn it over to Sergio to go through our segments.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Bruno. Turning to our segment highlights. As you can see in Slide 20, our platform remains highly diversified, Which we believe to be the main contributor to the resilience of our business. Disregarding investments made in the VRS segment, 59% of our FRE over the year to date came from our Private Market Strategies, Followed by IP and S and the Liquid Strategies with 16% and Financial Advisory contributing with 8%. The same level of diversification is reflected in our segment distributable earnings.

Speaker 4

Moving on to each of the segments, starting with our Private Market Strategies on Slide 21. FRE totaled R29.8 million dollars in the quarter, up 23% year over year, driven by the strong fundraising cycle experienced over the last 12 months and the acquisition of VINCI SPS. Please note that, as previously mentioned by Alessandro and Bruno, we should see new commitments Coming from VCP4 and VICC over the next few quarters, that will impact positively management fees, both from a recurring standpoint and a one off basis due to retroactivity fees that new commitments trigger To the start of the front, segment distributable earnings were BRL 35,400,000 in the quarter, An increase of 17% year over year boosted by FRE growth. Total AUM was R29.4 billion dollars for the end of the quarter, up 22% year over year. Moving on to our IPNS business on Slide 22.

Speaker 4

FRE totaled BRL 7,800,000 in the quarter, Down 32% on a year over year basis. Even though Our AUM numbers remain consistent year over year. We experienced a shift in the allocations with IP and S. The IPNS segment has in the last 12 months raised capital from exclusive separate mandates, which carry a lower fee rate, While suffering punctual redemptions in our open end products that are offered to individual investors Through distributors and platforms, this shift in AUM mix impacted management fee revenues in an year over year basis. Nevertheless, we expect IPNS to benefit from the current improvement in the macroeconomic environment, As institutional investors tend to seek for assistance to meet their actuarial goals when rates stabilize in a more constructive level.

Speaker 4

With that said, we should expect a pickup in AUM numbers between the end of 2023 and through 2024. Moving on to Slide 23, we go over the results for Liquid Strategies. Fee related earnings in the quarter of R8.1 million dollars down 15% year over year. Total AUM was BRL 11,500,000,000 at the end of the quarter, with AUM being impacted by favorable market to market effect, which were concentrated in the later part of the quarter. The same phenomenon I described for the P and S segment We can attribute to our liquidity in this quarter as we have also experienced fundraising in each majority for exclusive mandates that carry a lower fee rate than the flagship strategy.

Speaker 4

These were the main reasons that uphold a lower FRE with AUM improving on a year over year basis. We expect to see a pickup in management revenues over the Q3 following this recent appreciation that occurred On a broader spectrum, liquidity strategies should benefit from this easing cycle It started last week by the Central Bank as we expect investors to be more inclined to allocate capital towards public equities. That should take a few quarters to materialize. On a last note, I would like to cover the PRE potential with leaky strategies. Since our IPO, we faced volatile public markets which inhibit us to chart performance fees in several funds That carry a high watermarker clause.

Speaker 4

Now, if the recent pickup in local markets align with the good outlook ahead of us, It could be once again impactful for performance fees in the end of the year. Turning to slide 24, We cover our results for financial advisory. FRE for financial advisory was BRL 7,100,000 in the quarter, up 119 percent on a year over year basis. This quarter, we are able to close a few mandates that Contributed to an increase in advisory fees. For the year to date, FRE totaled R8.6 million dollars representing an increase of 118% compared to the same period last year.

Speaker 4

Finally, Moving on to Slide 25, we go over results for the Retirement Service segments. Fee related earnings for the quarter was negative BRL2 1,000,000 And over the year to date, represented negative BRL 3,600,000. We officially launched the product this quarter To our partners and employees, and we are expanding to our high net worth investors base throughout the second half of the year. We are very optimistic and excited with the prospect for VRS. However, as we have been discussing over the past few calls, We should only see meaningful numbers next year.

Speaker 4

That's it for today's presentation. Once again, we do like to thank you for joining our call. With that, I would like to open the call for questions.

Operator

If you wish to ask a question, please press the raise hand button. Wait while we'll pull for questions. Our first question comes from William Boronard from Itau BBA.

Speaker 5

So from our side, I have two questions. I'll start with the first one and then I'll ask the second. So the first one is on liquid strategies and REITs. You showed good performance in AUM this quarter, but They're mainly from the appreciation of the AUM, right? So, for REIT, you already told us that fundraising is already loaded.

Speaker 5

But I would like to grasp here what is the impact you sense in nominal terms, if you could, in terms of inflow and fundraising? And I know for liquid strategies, it's a little bit harder to predict. But if you could also give us a view on that, Would

Speaker 3

be nice. Okay, William. Thank you so much. This is Bruno speaking. So as you said, I mean, liquids is a little bit less predictable.

Speaker 3

We are obviously, what we can do from our side It's performed, right? So the good news is that our liquid funds on the equity side and also the commingle funds that we have in IPNS, They are all in the higher rankings in terms of performance at this point. So we have Both of our equity strategy in the 1st quartile and the Comiguo funds in IPNS probably in the first, I would say this side or at least the 1st quartile, the numbers are very, very good at this point. With the first cut in interest rates, The impact was really immediate. So this quarter to date, now the Q3 to date, we already have positive flows for equities, Which is something that hasn't happened in a structured and sustainable way for a very long time.

Speaker 3

In IPNS, With the performance that we have on the Comiguo side, we expect that to happen as well. So funds are very well positioned, And we are starting to see positive flows. And obviously, the outlook for those flows as interest rates continue to come down and the expectation is that they will. We expect those flows to accelerate. In the REITs, it's an Important part as well of the fundraising potential for VICI and a part that, to be very transparent, we have been missing very dearly In the past couple of years, Alessandro mentioned what we did in the prepared remarks, what we did in the last leasing cycle when we built The REIT platform.

Speaker 3

And the last time that we have a little bit more positive environment was in the first half of twenty twenty one. And we raised almost $2,000,000,000 in that moment. So today, we have a very Fragmented or diversified host of funds in the REIT space. We have agriculture, we have credit, we have Shopping malls, we have logistics sites. We have offices, urban rental income.

Speaker 3

We have an MLP in the And all of these products, they are in a very good position to raise capital. So, the total amount of AUM that we have today is close to $7,000,000,000 in this group of funds. So that means that the potential, added AUM inflow organically coming from these products going forward as they are in a position now to raise money Can be very material, right? So the first inflow from new capital we expect to come in the second half. It's probably I mean, it has the potential to be a number around BRL 1,000,000,000 if everything goes right.

Speaker 3

But the expectation is that these opportunities for us going forward now, they're going to open up quite materially. And we expect for at least 2024 For inflows from the REITs and MLP to be materially accretive to our AUM growth, which has not been the case

Speaker 2

And William, this is Alessandro. Just to complement to Bruno's answer, Just a brief comment. This fundraising for the REITs, they go straight to our waterline because this is really The management fees with no cost associated in terms of people and teams, so this is really a very needed impact In our numbers.

Speaker 5

That's very clear, Bruno and Alessandro. Thank you. Now if I could ask a second one. This one on the FRE margin, it decreased a bit this quarter, I guess, mainly due to a shift in the fundraising and fee mix In both IP and S and liquid strategies, is it right? Is that right?

Speaker 5

And if so, could you elaborate more on that helping us understand here What you expect ahead in terms of mix and margins on these strategies?

Speaker 3

Okay. Okay, Ui. It's Bruno again. The reason why we had this shift in the margin in the Q2 was mainly given The fact that we had a very strong advisory quarter in relation to the rest of the business, And then that creates a little bit of a shift from a bonus composition standpoint. So the bonus provision is a little bit higher when we have this type of mix In the revenue, right?

Speaker 3

Going forward, we do not it's very difficult to say when The advisory business is going to have a strong quarter like this one, but the mix will have some impact on the bonus provision side, right? The company, we underwent a productivity effort now in the beginning of the year that we were able to curb in some of the cost That we had. So if you look at the corporate center costs on a year on year basis, we're basically flat. So it was a very, A very good performance on that side of the business. And now with inflows accelerating, hopefully that's going to happen in the next few quarters, We expect to be able to show more material cost leverage, right?

Speaker 3

So the idea is really to be very focused on expanding margins going forward. And as Alessandro said, the REITs are a good example, but this is true for most of our business lines. The structure that we have can absorb additional incremental AUM With very limited cost addition. So the expectation is that as we accelerate the fundraising, we will be able to

Operator

Our next question comes from Ricardo Bautpigo from BTG Pactual. Please, Mr. Ricardo, your microphone is open.

Speaker 6

Hi. I have two questions on my side. Looking at Qt Widan dynamics, given the better inflows that you already mentioned in terms of REITs and liquid strategies, The appreciation of the AUM for the full quarter and more private market closing, especially with the retroactive fees, It's reasonable to expect a double digit expansion in FRA quarter over quarter. And also related to FRA, we'll notice A strong increase in the advisory for business, recovering from the levels a little bit that you had in the prior quarters. So I wanted to understand a little bit if we should see advisory fees running with double digit revenues in the following quarters, given

Speaker 3

Okay, Ricardo. So going to your two questions. The impact On the management fee revenue for the Q3, it can be relevant. So we have visibility today Of at least BRL 1,000,000,000 between VCP and VICC that are being closed in the 3rd quarter. I would say probably 60% to 70% of that will be related to VCP and 30% to 40% of that related to VICC.

Speaker 3

VCP's AUM are going to retract the full year. So It can be a number north of $10,000,000 let's say, in terms of the impact From those, those two effects, let's say. So so those could have really a meaningful I mean, if we impact to the numbers in the quarter. In regards to advisory, Quarter to quarter is very tough to forecast, right? So we tend to look at this Tomorrow on at least a 2 or 3 quarter rolling basis because of the timing of closing of deals is very difficult to predict.

Speaker 3

What I can tell you is the following. Today, our pipeline is over BRL 100,000,000 in terms of the total pipeline for M and A On the M and A side, the advisory business. And usually, we expect this to be realized in a period between 3 4 years. If the capital markets activity continues to improve, we can eventually pull forward some of these mandates and closing quicker. So that would obviously be a positive impact to our short term numbers.

Speaker 3

But in average, we are still seeing, at least at this point in time, What we had guided to guys in the past, which has been a number in terms of advisory between €30,000,000 €40,000,000 per year. So that continues to be the expectation for 2023, but without really being able to say how much of that will fall in the Q3 or in the Q4. But we expect to do that within that range of $30,000,000 to $40,000,000 on a normalized basis, right? So that would be expectation for A 12 month rolling basis with the level of backlog that we have today in that part of the business.

Speaker 6

Oh, very clear. And if I may have another follow-up, with the capital markets becoming more active, we have observed a lot of Investment access exits by private equity funds. So could you explain a little bit more the how is the rules, for the funds of VINCI to begin paying performance freezing in private markets, in particular, if there is any catch up rules, And it's sort of particularity about this process and also comment a little bit about the difference impact That we should have in terms of accounting net income and distributable earnings given that you book and realize performance fees. Thank you.

Speaker 3

Okay. So let's divide here between the liquids and IPNS side And the privates. Liquids and IPNS is what we discussed in the call, right? So we have a report, internal report, There is a watermark report that we track on a weekly basis, if I'm not mistaken, where we see the distance of our funds in general to the watermark their respective watermarks. And what can I what I can tell you now is that we are at the money, Right?

Speaker 3

So that means that any outperformance that we have for most of the strategies of the company, we are going to earn performance fees. This is a number that if you go back to 2018, 2019, 2020, We had $40,000,000 $50,000,000 $60,000,000 of performance revenues coming from the liquid side of the business, Which, again, as the case of the retail OEM in the past couple of years, was very small, right? So we didn't have this contribution, which, Given the levels that we have today in the market, they can be more meaningful going forward, right? In terms of the performance for the private side of the business, typically, what we have is a structure where we pay Carry on a European waterfall basis, right? So what that means is that we need to return To ROPs, they're full capital with the opportunity costs, right?

Speaker 3

And then depending On the index and on the currency. And in the case of the international capital, usually it's dollar plus 8 preferred return. In the case of the Brazilian, fundraising depends on the fund, but it's between 6% 8% plus inflation. So once we return 100 percent of the capital plus the preferred return rate, we're eligible to start Both accruing on the balance sheet and also receiving performance fees. The accrual on the balance sheet, What we have in terms of historical conversations with our auditors is that we're going to start recognizing those Performance fees in our balance sheet, once the probability of the being materialized becomes very high, which means having already surpassed The preferred return with the full capital realization.

Speaker 3

So today, we only have one of our funds in that situation, which is Our FIP infra, which is a fund that we already returned 100% of the capital. And we have booked the current mark of the asset that is remaining in the fund in our balance sheet, Which is also in the presentation, those it's a number around $80,000,000 that is booked In our balance sheet as a performance, right? We have that in one of the slides. When we recognize when we sell this asset This asset is currently in process of being sold. It's the final asset of this fund.

Speaker 3

We are already In due diligence phase to sell the assets, once this asset is sold, we're going to recognize the performance fees and lower the amount Of receivables that we have on the balance sheet. In addition, and this is going to be the first time that we're going to have a material impact coming from This side of the business as well. This fund had GP Investment in it. It's one of the private funds that we had GP Investment. So it's going to impact both lines.

Speaker 3

So we're going to revert the receivable in the balance sheet as performance fees. And on top of that, we're going to realize The gain in our distributable earnings that is currently in our obviously in our cash position, but book doesn't realize. So those will be the 2 impacts. So that's how we would expect this to happen. So we need to have capital return, Full capital return per the preferred rate, then the gains going forward will be accrued as received within the balance sheet and impacting our income statements

Speaker 7

Hi. Good evening, Alessandro, Bruno, Sergio, and So I have a just I guess follow-up on the FRE margin. Just wanted to make sure I understand An explanation there, Bruno, I think if I misunderstood or if I understood correctly, you said it was partly due to The increase in the advisory, but if I look at the FRE margin because FRE margin for financial advisory, it was actually higher This quarter compared to 1Q, so I mean, it looks like the by strategy is the main decline for IPNS And private markets fell a little bit. I think you explained that IPNS was due to mix. But just to understand, I guess, The decline in the private markets FRE margin, and should that kind of go back to what we saw in 1Q?

Speaker 7

Just to understand the quarterly dynamics stay a little bit better.

Speaker 3

Okay, Tito. No problem. So in Private Markets And IPNS, we had 2 impacts. One was that in the Q1 of 2023, We had a close in this CP4 in which we retroactive rates. So there was a one time Revenue management fee revenue that was booked in the Q1 and that we didn't have in the Q2.

Speaker 3

So that's the bulk of the impact On the private market side, when you compare quarter to the next, right? So obviously with that, let's say, The non existing revenue impact in the Q1 sorry, in the Q2 when compared to the first, we have some cost deleverage and obviously the margin suffers a little bit. And then finally, in the IPNS case, we have basically an impact that was the fall in the Q2 of last It was the peak exposure that we had in one of our patient plan funds, Equilibro, in which we ended up ended that quarter with a number around 3,000,000,000 Of AUM in that product. That product has a very high fee for us. We are now in the worst possible moment in that comparison because we had a withdraw Of, I would say, a meaningful, approximately half of that capital, a little bit more than half of that capital, Because that fund is a fund that is an allocation fund.

Speaker 3

So it has a mix of equities and fixed income. And we had a very poor market performance in the second half of last year. So that impacted the performance of this fund. I mean, usually people, they are very attached to short term performances, and we had withdrawals in these funds. So when you compare the year over year in the case of IPNS, although the AUM dropped single digits, the revenue dropped more Because we had losses in the funds mainly, which is this family of patient plan funds, Which carry very high fees.

Speaker 3

So we have in the case of IPNS, we had last year an average fee rate of I think it was high 30s, 37, 36. And this family of product carry an average fee of 1%. So as we had withdrawal of this money and compensated part of the withdrawal with separate mandates, The fee rate was hit. And then we had cost deleverage, and we had the margin impact that you alluded to. So those are the 2 the explanations between Private Markets and IPNS, thinking about the next few quarters with the closings that we're going to have in Private Markets, REITs, VICC, VCP, we are going to have probably the opposite impact.

Speaker 3

Going to have a positive impact from one time fees on the retroactive side and also on the carrier fees going forward because we're going to have a higher AUM And that will allow us to dilute more of the costs. And IP and S is more of a day to day flow business. We are seeing flows improving, But there's no, like, one time impact or discrete impact, as is the case of the private market side. So we expect The leverage on the Equinor side to be more gradual, although the comparison in the second quarter is the worst one because we're Comparing the high of allocation with the low of allocation, which we expect to be the Q2 of 2023.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Now thanks for clarifying Bruno. I think that's pretty clear. So it sounds so you could have some retroactive fees again In 3Q, it sounds like so that could boost a little bit the free margin for private markets. And just on the IT and S system, So is it a more normalized margin for I P and S around this mid-forty percent range that we saw, I guess, in 1Q and 2Q, not the 50 something

Speaker 3

Well, hopefully, we can go back to that level. I think it will depend on the mix of products that we grow going forward. The positive thing is that the flow to the pension plans is going up. So given that those are carrying higher fees, the amount of Fixed cost dilution that we can have there is very big. The team will not change.

Speaker 3

I think that's an important point. The Ip and S team, If they manage R20 billion dollars or R30 billion dollars it's going to be the same team. So there's going to be some bonus provision Which are running today, let's say, at around 19% to 20%, and the rest is FRE. So To that extent, the leverage that we get there, it will be very directional with the amount of AUM and the fee rate that we have. So it could go back to, Depending on the revenue base, it will go back to the levels that we had last year.

Speaker 2

And Tito, here is Alessandro. Just to reinforce Bruno's Point, what has been happening in the last year in IPNS is that we have been suffering we suffered. Now we are in the opposite direction, but we suffered some redemptions coming from these retirement and pension products Where the final clients are retail. It's a retail decision. So and they carry higher fees, but at the same time, they are more volatile.

Speaker 2

And we have been compensating that in terms of a WAM with more institutional money that carries lower fees. Going forward, we are already Seeing the flows from retail changing on a more positive tone, but we are, of course, seeing faster Inflows and requests for proposals coming from institutional investors. So we expect Growth in AUM but also from retail and pensions, but we sorry, institutions. So we believe the institution will come first, but the retailer is picking up to that carries higher fees. So that we will probably We will be growing the margin and the fees the average fee for the whole Segment, but it's difficult to predict exactly how it will occur going forward.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. No, that's very clear. Thanks, Alessandro and Bruno. And if I could ask the second question, more on the performance fees. Alessandro sounded like you sounded optimistic, but You could potentially realize more performance fees in the second half of the year, maybe towards the end of the year.

Speaker 7

Did I read that correctly? Would that be more like towards the end of the year? And on the PRE margin, typically it's around 65% this quarter fell to 50%. Just to understand why the amount you paid from the performance fees was higher this quarter?

Speaker 2

Okay. Yes, we expect that we see we expect to see more performance related earnings Especially on the Q4 of the year, okay, since on the liquid strategies, we are, as Bruno mentioned, At or over the high watermark. So we are in the point that any, I would say, Over return would be charging performance. Also at the same time on the private market, as we mentioned, a few funds are Already paying as the infra fund already paid performance fees and specifically so be an effect that we expect for the Q4. And specifically in terms of margins is because on this 2nd quarter performance numbers, we benefit for performance from One specific strategy that we have inside liquids, where We have a higher percentage of the performance fee that are distributed to the team.

Speaker 2

So that's explained why specifically in this quarter we had this effect of a lower margin in PRA.

Operator

Our next question comes from Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan. Please Mr. Yuri, your microphone is open.

Speaker 8

Hey, guys. Thank you very much. Most of my questions, they were already answered. But I have one regarding inflows. When we check the June data on VIMA, we see more inflows.

Speaker 8

I guess, this quarter you have the figures and ex IP and S, I guess, most of your strategies, they are performing well. So just an outlook here for the second half, if you I expecting like you already have July on your plate, right? So just checking how you're seeing flows for the second half, if we should see an acceleration On inflows and especially if we need to see a certain level of silic for you to start To see, you know, like things getting, you know, more material. So like just checking how you're seeing things. And the second question is if there is a Selic I don't know, going through low double digits, single digits that would be like where you believe deceleration may gain more momentum.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Speaker 2

Hi, Yuri. This is Alessandro. Thank you for the question. Yes, we are seeing more inflows, as we mentioned, Especially on July and etcetera, there is a subsequent numbers that we already mentioned regarding The private market strategy, especially the private equity CP4 With this XP and some others fundraising efforts that will be materialized on the Q3 and also the ICC And that will continue over the rest of the second half where we really expect this to pick up. As we mentioned again, we saw a lot of interest and the numbers slowly being Positive for equities and also for some IP and F strategy.

Speaker 2

So yes, we expect the inflows to improve Already on the second half of the year. Okay. To your second question regarding a level, We believe that when we will have on the high single digit Celiki, that will be Really an environment that we expect a very strong growth in terms of AUM across all of our strategies because that will Translates in real interest rates that will turn a lot of our products that Now, we are in a very good position since they are in the 1st quartile of their benchmarks, Some of the peer groups, we could really take advantage of that position when the CELIC rate is in a more normalized level. Of course, we will see on the second half and next year already a good inflow. But when we see something Under 10% or high single digits around 9% and 9% something.

Speaker 2

Really, we expect that to pick up strongly

Operator

The question and answer session is over. We'd like to hand the floor back to Mr. Alessandro Orta For the company's final remarks, please Mr. Dorta, you may proceed.

Speaker 2

So, I would like one more time to thank you for your support, Your interest and say that we are becoming increasingly more optimistic with the next few quarters. The environment is Much more benign and we are seeing this improving going forward. And we are very, very well positioned To capture this opportunity right now, not just because of capabilities, our capacity, our deep knowledge of all the verticals, But also because the funds are with performance relative to the peers, really in a good shape. So, we expect you in the next few quarters. So, thank you very much and have a good night.

Operator

Finci Partners Conference is now closed. We thank you all for your participation and wish you a very good

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Earnings Conference Call
Vinci Partners Investments Q2 2023
00:00 / 00:00