NYSE:MHO M/I Homes Q4 2023 Earnings Report $108.83 +1.18 (+1.10%) Closing price 05/7/2025 03:59 PM EasternExtended Trading$108.94 +0.11 (+0.11%) As of 05:28 AM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast M/I Homes EPS ResultsActual EPS$3.66Consensus EPS $4.94Beat/MissMissed by -$1.28One Year Ago EPSN/AM/I Homes Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$972.59 millionExpected Revenue$1.19 billionBeat/MissMissed by -$213.41 millionYoY Revenue GrowthN/AM/I Homes Announcement DetailsQuarterQ4 2023Date1/31/2024TimeN/AConference Call DateWednesday, January 31, 2024Conference Call Time10:30AM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Annual Report (10-K)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by M/I Homes Q4 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrJanuary 31, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 5 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Mi Homes 4th Quarter and Year End Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. Operator00:00:20As a reminder, this call is being recorded on Wednesday, January 31, 2024. I would now like to turn over the conference to Phil Craig. Speaker 100:00:32Thank you for joining us. Joining me on the call today is Bob Schottenstein, our CEO and President and Derek Klutch, President of our Mortgage Company. First to address Regulation Fair Disclosure, we encourage you to ask any questions regarding issues that you material during this call because we are prohibited from discussing significant non public items with you directly. And as to forward looking statements, I want to remind everyone that the cautionary language about forward looking statements contained in today's press release also applies to any comments made during this call. Also be advised that the company undertakes no obligation to update any forward looking statements made during this call. Speaker 100:01:17With that, I'll turn the call over to Bob. Thanks, Phil. Good morning and thank you for joining our call as we highlight our Q4 and full year 2023 results. We had an outstanding year in 2023, one of the best in our 47 year history. We are particularly pleased with our results given the significant headwinds the housing industry faced as we entered 2023, as well as a rising interest rate environment throughout most of the year, together with inflationary pressures and general uncertainty within the economy. Speaker 100:01:54For the year, we had very strong income and returns. Pretax income equaled $607,000,000 with a pretax return of 15%. Gross margins for the year came in at 25.3 percent, the same as last year. We were pleased to see our gross margins hold steady, notwithstanding the choppy market conditions and rising rates. Return on equity was a very solid 20.2%. Speaker 100:02:25Strength of our communities and product offerings along with our selective and very targeted use of below market financing incentives contributed to our strong 4th quarter and full year sales performance. In the 4th quarter, We sold 1588 Homes, a 61% increase over last year, with significantly better per community absorptions. Clearly, as rates began to fall in the 4th quarter, we saw a pickup in both traffic and demand. Notably, Our December sales were the best month of the Q4. For the full year, we sold 7,977 homes, an increase of 20% over 2022. Speaker 100:03:14Our monthly sales pace during the year averaged 3.3 homes per community compared to a sales pace of 3.1 homes per community during 2022. And the quality of buyers that we're seeing continues to be strong with average credit scores of 747 and an average down payment above 18%. Our Smart Series, which is our most affordably priced product, continues to have a very positive impact not just on our sales, but our overall performance. Smart Series sales comprised 53% of total company sales in the 4th quarter compared to 52% in the 4th quarter a year ago. And I'm pleased to report that the improvement in traffic and demand that we saw in the Q4 has continued as we begin this year, with our January sales exceeding last year. Speaker 100:04:12We are very optimistic about a good selling season. We continue to see improvement in our construction cycle time. During the Q4, our cycle time improved by an additional 10 days sequentially. Year over year, our cycle time has improved by more than 60 days. Improvement in cycle time remains a major area of focus for us. Speaker 100:04:37In terms of deliveries, given that we began 20 23 with roughly 15% fewer homes in the field, we were very pleased to close 8,112 homes for the year, 3% less than 2022. Now I will provide some additional comments on our markets. Our division income contributions in 2023 were led by Dallas, Tampa, Columbus, Orlando, Raleigh, Sarasota and Charlotte all had very strong years. New contracts for the Q4 in our Southern region increased 44% and 89% in our Northern region. For the year, new contracts increased 18% in our Southern region and 22% in our Northern region. Speaker 100:05:29Our deliveries decreased 17% over last year's Q4 in the Southern region, comprising 11.71 deliveries or 58 percent of our total. Northern region contributed 848 deliveries, a decrease of 13% over last year's Q4. For the year, homes delivered, as I mentioned before or rather homes delivered increased 3% in the southern region, but decreased 12% in the northern region. Our owned and controlled lot position in the Southern region increased by 12% compared to last year. Owned and controlled lots increased 3% in the northern region. Speaker 100:06:13We have an excellent land position. Company wide, we own approximately 24,400 lots, which is roughly a 3 year supply. Of that total, 28% of the lots are in our northern region, with a balance of 72% in the southern region. On top of our own lots, we control via option contracts an additional 21,300 lots. So in total, we own and control approximately 45,700 single family lots, which is up 9% from a year ago and equates to about a 5 year supply. Speaker 100:06:49Most importantly, about 47% of our lots are controlled pursuant to option contracts. This gives us significant flexibility to react to changes in demand or individual market conditions. With respect to our balance sheet, we ended the year with an all time record $2,500,000,000 of equity, which equates to a book value of $91 per share. We also ended the year with $733,000,000 of cash and 0 borrowings under our $650,000,000 unsecured revolving credit facility. This resulted in a debt to capital ratio of 22%, down from 25% a year ago and a net debt to capital ratio of minus 2%. Speaker 100:07:40As I conclude, let me just state we are in the best financial condition in our history. We feel very good about our business and fully expect to deliver another year of strong results in 2024. With that, I'll turn it over to Phil. Thanks, Bob. Our new contracts were up 35% in October, up 92% in November and up 64% in December for a 61% improvement in the quarter overall. Speaker 100:08:08Our sales pace was 2.5 in the 4th quarter compared to 1.8 in last year's 4th quarter and our cancellation rate for the 4th quarter was percent. As to our buyer profile, 53% of our 4th quarter sales were to first time buyers compared to 58% a year ago. In addition, 62% of our 4th quarter sales were inventory homes compared to 64% in last year's Q4. Our community count was 213 at the end of 2023 compared to 196 at the end of 22. During the quarter, we opened 20 new communities while closing 11. Speaker 100:08:50And for the year, we opened 76 new communities. We currently estimate that our average 2024 community count will be about 10% higher than 2023. We delivered 2019 homes in the 4th quarter, delivering 59% of our backlog compared to 53% a year ago. And as we stated in our Q3 conference call, We entered the Q4 with 1200 less homes in the field than a year ago. And at December 31, we had 4,400 homes in the field versus 4,500 homes in the field a year ago. Speaker 100:09:29Revenue decreased 20% in the 4th quarter to 973,000,000 Our average closing price for the Q4 was $471,000 a 4% decrease when compared to last year's Q4 average closing price of $492,000 Our gross margins were 25.1 percent for the quarter, up 2 50 basis points year over year. And for the full year, our gross margins were flat at 25.3%. Our SG and A expenses increased by 4% in the 4th quarter, due primarily to higher incentive compensation, increased real estate taxes on our inventory levels and the cost of having more communities. Interest income increased to $8,300,000 for the quarter due to our higher cash balances and our pre tax income was 15.1 versus 15.4% last year and our return on equity remained strong at 20%. During the Q4, we generated 100 $53,000,000 of EBITDA and for the full year we generated $648,000,000 of EBITDA. Speaker 100:10:36We generated $552,000,000 of cash flow from operations this year compared to generating $184,000,000 last year. Our effective tax rate was 24% in the 4th quarter compared to 21% last year's 4th quarter and our effective rate for the year was 23%. We expect 2024's effective tax rate to also be around 23%. Earnings per diluted share for the quarter decreased to $3.66 per share from $4.65 per share in last year's Q4 and decreased 6% for the year to $16.21 from $17.24 last year. During the Q4, we spent $25,000,000 repurchasing our shares and for the year we spent $65,000,000 We currently have $128,000,000 available under our repurchase authorization. Speaker 100:11:31And in the last 3 years, we have repurchased 9% of our outstanding shares. Now Derek Klutch will address our mortgage company results. Thank you, Phil. Speaker 200:11:40In the Q4, our mortgage and title operations achieved pretax income of $4,700,000 down $5,000,000 from 2022 on revenue of $19,700,000 down 13% over last year, primarily as a result of lower pricing margins, lower average loan amounts and fewer loans closed. For the year, pre tax income was $38,400,000 and revenue was $93,800,000 Loan to value on our first mortgages for the quarter was 82% in 2023, The same as 20 22's 4th quarter, 66% of loans closed in the 4th quarter were conventional and 34% were FHA or VA. This compares to 79% and 21%, respectively, for 20 22's same period. Our average mortgage amount decreased to $383,000 in 2023's 4th quarter compared to $392,000 in 20.22. Loans originated in the quarter decreased 7% from 1497 to 1387 and the volume of loans sold increased by 9%. Speaker 200:12:58Mentioned earlier, the borrower profile remains solid with an average down payment of over 18% for the quarter and an average credit score on mortgages originated by Mi Financial of 747. Our mortgage operation captured 88% of the business in the quarter, an increase from 77% in 20 22's 4th quarter. We maintain a separate mortgage repurchase facility that provides us with funding for our mortgage originations prior to the sale to investors. At December 31, We had a total of $166,000,000 outstanding under this facility, which expires in October of this year. Facility is a typical 3 64 day mortgage repurchase line that we extend annually. Speaker 200:13:47Now I'll turn the call back over to Phil. Speaker 100:13:49Thanks, Derek. As far as the balance sheet, we ended the 4th quarter with a cash balance of $733,000,000 and no borrowings under our unsecured revolving credit facility. Our credit facility matures in late 2026 and our public debt with interest rates below 5% mature in 2028 and 2030. Our total homebuilding inventory at year end was $2,800,000,000 which was flat with the prior year level. During 2023, we spent $344,000,000 on land purchases and $512,000,000 on land development for a total land spend of $856,000,000 This was up from $837,000,000 in 2022. Speaker 100:14:33At December 31, 'twenty three, we had $715,000,000 of raw land and land under development and $721,000,000 of finished unsold lots. We own 8,724 unsold finished lots. We have a very strong land position at year end Controlling 46,000 lots, we own 24,400 lots, which is about a 3 year supply and of the lots controlled, 53% are owned, which is about a 5.5 year supply. And at the end of the year, we had 592 completed inventory homes, about 3 per community and 2023 total inventory homes. Of the total inventory, 912 were in the northern region and 11 11 is in the southern region. Speaker 100:15:21And at December 31, 2022, we had 4 85 completed inventory homes and 1827 total inventory homes. This completes our presentation. We'll now open the call for any questions or comments. Operator00:15:38Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now conduct a question and answer Your first question comes from Alan Ratner from Zelman and Associates, your line is now open. Speaker 300:16:06Hey, guys. Good morning. Congrats on a great year. Speaker 100:16:09Thanks, Al. Speaker 400:16:09Thanks for all the detail. Speaker 100:16:11Must be celebrating your football team's performance. Speaker 300:16:15I'm still riding high, Bob. I'm still riding high. Speaker 100:16:18I expect nothing less. Speaker 300:16:21Next year might look a little different, but we'll see. We'll worry about that then. So a lot of great detail there. Your margins have been pretty stable in this 25% range for the last several quarters. As you think about 2024, I know you're not going to give specific guidance, but how are you thinking about the moving pieces of margin, the outlook on material and labor inflation, land inflation in terms of what's going to be flowing through and then ultimately directionally what your views are on pricing now given what seems like a pretty healthy start to the spring selling season so far, any ability to push price. Speaker 300:17:01So if you could kind of just talk about these 3 buckets, I think it will help us Speaker 100:17:05Yes. I think on the cost side, things have stabilized quite a bit, Even on land development, a year ago, I was quite concerned, we were quite concerned about inflation on land development. Clearly, there has been some, but that appears to be moderating somewhat as well. Maybe not every single aspect, still probably a little bit of pressure on concrete. But on the cost side, I think we feel pretty good about where that stands in terms of moderating inflation and moderating increases. Speaker 100:17:41A year ago, as We looked at what we thought was going to happen in 2023. We thought margins would be under considerable pressure given where rates were and the softening of demand. And as it turned out, even though we did have to spend money, on as I mentioned, on a selective basis and some of it was very targeted for certain communities to provide a more marketable rate. We were really pleased And surprised frankly that our margins held steady at just over 25% as you mentioned. Yes. Speaker 100:18:20It's very, very hard to forecast margins. Everybody has an opinion. But sitting where we are now, as I look at demand and I look at Website traffic, the way the year is starting out, what we're hearing in the field, Even in markets that might have been a little weaker throughout the early parts of last year, now appear to be quite a bit stronger. We're hopeful that we can continue to maintain margins in this level. I don't know if they'll go up. Speaker 100:18:52We're super excited about all the new communities we're going to be opening. We have and it was reflected in the average selling price that Phil mentioned coming down slightly. We have a lot more affordable product offering that we hope will provide bigger pace and strong margins coming out this year. But you don't know until you really know if you're really honest about it. But, I guess sitting here today, generally, pretty optimistic about the state of housing, the state of demand and our ability to continue to generate what I think are very solid returns. Speaker 100:19:44We're not expecting much erosion, frankly, and maybe we'll be fortunate with a little bit of uptick because we don't see the pressure on the cost side maybe quite as much as we did a couple of years ago. And frankly, the other thing is, is For the most part, the supply chain disruptions that we just couldn't stop talking about post COVID have now seen to have pretty much cleared out and dissipated. Speaker 300:20:18That's all really helpful and encouraging to hear. So hopefully that momentum continues. And yes, congrats on maintaining margins. Speaker 100:20:27Look, look, and I don't think we're alone in this, which is also comforting. If you're the only one that's experiencing something, it always makes you wonder whether it's good or bad. But I think that there's a lot of momentum within the industry right now. And we're just you sort of hear things and seeing what other builders have recently said as well, it resonates with us. And Alan, just a couple more things, just kind of follow-up on what Bob said. Speaker 100:20:55The stores we opened last year ended up performing better pace, better margin than we anticipated. And we talked about our current estimate of this year having on average 10% more stores, over half of those expected openings are in the first half this year, which again will not only help us with sales, also with closings this year. So we're very excited about the new stores we're opening also. Speaker 300:21:29That's great. Thanks for that addition there, Phil. Second question around kind of Spec versus BTO, I mean, Smart Series has obviously been a huge focus of yours for the last several years. I think if I heard you correctly, the share of spec sales actually ticked a little bit lower this quarter year on year. And I guess I'm curious as you think about the landscape Today with cycle times normalizing, resale inventory still incredibly low, but maybe starting to tick up a little bit. Speaker 300:22:03Does that change your thinking at all as far as the mix of your business at spec versus BTO? Are you starting to see Speaker 100:22:09consumer inventory there? Yes, I'll let Phil give you the Yes, great question. I'll let Phil give a little more of the detail. We've increased It's a subdivision business, so it's not necessarily the case in every subdivision. But on average, our plan is to have more specs than maybe we would have had 3 or 4 years ago. Speaker 100:22:29We've ramped up our specs for all the reasons that you mentioned. And then the other thing is, in terms of mix with Smart Series and also townhomes, attached townhomes, which represent an increasing percentage of our business company wide, that will also result in more specs with these 4 unit and 6 unit buildings being the most common form of townhome. So you start a building with 1 or 2 sales and you automatically have 3 or 4 specs out there. Phil, you want to add anything else to that? Yes. Speaker 100:23:12As far as spec levels, again, in general, Depending on the month or whatever, we're selling 50% to 60% specs. One of the good news is that The gross margin on specs versus to be built is not very much in some markets. Matter of fact, it's like really, really close. So, we do feel good about our spec levels. We are doing more attached townhouses. Speaker 100:23:42We're doing more smaller single family detached and by its nature we're doing a few more specs in those. Mike expects to get up to the 2,200, 2,300, 2,400. But again, as our store count moves up, That's about 10 per store. And then having 2, 3, 4 finished specs, again, seems like a good number to us. Per community. Speaker 100:24:09Per community. So we do feel good about our spec levels. We want to make sure that we have what we need. Speaker 300:24:17Makes sense. All right. Well, appreciate it all and best of luck in the New Year. Speaker 100:24:22Thanks. You too. Operator00:24:26Your next question comes from Jay McAnish from Wedbush. Your line is now open. Speaker 100:24:35Hey, Jay. Speaker 400:24:36Hey, good morning, everyone. Hope you all are doing well. Bob or sorry, Phil, if you don't mind, what was the monthly order pace through 4Q and maybe any color you can give us on January? Speaker 100:24:52I'll take the last part of that first and then Phil will give you the pace. Somewhat surprising, well, just let me start over. What I mentioned was, is that the increase in demand and traffic that really sort of intensified during the Q4 and that resulted in December being our best month of the quarter. That has continued and that increase in traffic and demand And well, technically January is not over. Our January sales will exceed last year's. Speaker 100:25:31We're very pleased with the way the year is starting out and optimistic about the selling season. Phil can give you the details on pace. Yes, sales pace Jay, in the Q4 it was 2.5. In the Q4 last year it was 1.8. And again, in the Q3, we were 3.4%. Speaker 100:25:52So again, we have been improving pace and Have a big focus on that. Hope to continue improving that. Great. Speaker 400:26:05And then could you talk about the community count? Because you all guided, I think, to like 225 maybe and you came in at 213. Maybe what's going on there? And I know you said you're going to open 50% of the new stores in the first half of twenty twenty four. I mean, is it going to be a pretty big step up in the total community count in the Q1 sequentially? Speaker 100:26:31Yes, Jay. Again, overall, we expect our community count this year to be on average up about 10%. Last year, we were a little short of where we thought we would be at year end, primarily because about 10 stores were delayed. Most of them are just sliding into this year. We do expect Over half the stores we're opening this year to be the first half. Speaker 100:27:03So if you kind of look at the year in general, We ended the year with $2.13 We expect to get to that $2.25 type level by the middle of the year. And again, the second half of the year gets a little more difficult because it is taking a little longer to develop land and those type of things. But we do feel comfortable saying today we think we'll be up 10% on average. Speaker 400:27:31Okay. All right. And then I guess, Alan already asked you the gross margin question, but just maybe what type of pricing power you're seeing currently, maybe what percentage of your communities during Q4, were you able to raise prices raise based pricing? Speaker 100:27:52I think pricing power is limited. We can continue to stay at this 25% gross margin level this year. We're going to have a phenomenal year. And that's our goal. I don't know that I can with any kind of certainty whether we'll be able to grow margins. Speaker 100:28:21I think that the balance between demand and price right now in the market generally is really good. And Like I said before, a year ago, I thought margins were going to fall off 100 basis points or 200 basis points just because of the higher rates and so forth. And that didn't happen last year. We were really pleased that our margins held steady. I think that's a I think that's strong performance. Speaker 100:28:49I think it's a testament to our people and our product and our communities. But I think that, I think knowing what we know today, I'm not sure how much pricing power we'll see, but I think we'd be thrilled. And I think there's a good possibility that our margins will remain as we talked about with Alan in this 25% range. Speaker 400:29:17Right. And I guess from a competitive standpoint, saw a lot of your larger competitors Pretty aggressive on both base price discounts and incentives during the calendar Q4 of 2023. I guess, what are you seeing now relative to what was going on a month ago? And do you feel like the pace of incentives may have to start picking up again if mortgage rates don't start coming down? Speaker 100:29:46Well, I actually have a slightly contrary view on that. I think the first one, it's very market specific. It's cliche, but every market is different. I think that in a number of instances, We're starting to see incentives line, ours have and the slight The slight decline in mortgage rates that we've seen over the last 90 days It's made it so that you don't have to spend as much where needed to provide a rate in either the low 6s or the high 5s. And you'd rather not spend anything on that, but that's what we have been doing and the net net of that has resulted in our 25 0.3% gross margins. Speaker 100:30:48If demand continues to stay like it does Like it is now, I'd like to think that builder behavior will respond accordingly and not see as much of a need for incentivizing, that's sort of how we're thinking about it. Jay, also as Bob mentioned, every subdivision is a little different because we're definitely in the subdivision business. If you look at the 213 communities we have Going into this year, like we said, 76 of them opened in 2023 and over 100 of them opened in 20 22. So how you open, what model you have, what the specification level is of those houses, all those things, how many specs do you want? No, again, I mean, we're not driven solely by volume. Speaker 100:31:43Obviously, we want to continue to grow and think we are positioned to grow. But again, when you have $3,000,000,000 $4,000,000,000 $5,000,000,000 of revenue, 15 basis points, 25 basis points mean a whole lot. So we really try to focus on every subdivision, not get too far ahead of ourselves, make sure we're focused on who the buyer is. So every subdivision is really a little different. We don't do blanket things like, oh, let's do interest rate buy downs everywhere. Speaker 100:32:16And some customers need an interest rate buy down for the payment help. Some customers need closing cost help. So again, We try to deal with it more on a rifle approach as opposed to just a shotgun across the board. Speaker 300:32:33Sure. Speaker 400:32:35Any notion of what you're going to spend on land acquisition and development this year? Speaker 100:32:42Well, we definitely expect to spend more. We did spend a little more in 2023 than 20 22 And the majority is continuing to be land development. Land development costs, as Bob says, It's not going up the way it was. The good news is kind of stabilizing. But we do want to continue to grow, have more stores. Speaker 100:33:05So we do expect to be spending more on land this year. Look, I think we've said this before, Our goal is to grow the business. We're very bullish about housing and we're really bullish about our business. And Our growth goals, 5% to 10% per year, hopefully closer to 10% and that remains our strategic outlook. Speaker 400:33:34Got you. And then just one other question because we've heard some builders talking about it. And this is kind of relative to what you said, Bob, about gross margins being flat at this 25 ish level. Land prices, we've heard, have been going up some of the builders, labor prices seem to be going up. I guess what are the levers you're going to have to pull? Speaker 400:33:54Is it going to be maybe reduction in The other input costs that are coming in that keep your gross margin flat around this 25% level, Bob, especially with lean prices seeing to move up, I guess, kind of what are the levers you're going to have to push and pull to hold at these levels, especially if you don't think you're going to get much pricing power year, what are the things you're going to have to do to maintain at this 25% level? Speaker 100:34:22Continue to produce really high quality affordable product, whether it's attached or detached and well located communities. You probably would like a more magical answer, but I think that's what it goes back to. Well located communities will sell and they will sell at really good margins. And if the majority of our communities Check the box of being exceptionally well located, we think they do. We think we can maintain our margins that way. Speaker 100:34:58That's what happened in 2023. We expect it to happen in 2024. And that's I mean definitely we're all focused On that couple of details with that Jay, specifications of the product to make sure we're putting things in the homes that people really want, that they need and they'll pay for, not overbuilding. That's very important to us. As we increase the mix of attached product in our company, Probably approaching somewhere around 20% company wide. Speaker 100:35:31We get higher density And that bring even though the land may cost more, all those things hunt back into the average selling price. If I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if someone would have said a year ago, your average price is going to come down or your margin stay the same, You might have go, I don't think so, but that's what happened. And we may still see a slight relative reduction in average price because of The continued leaning into of slightly more attached product as well as we've just had Home run success with our Smart Series and it's over half of our business and it will continue to be. And then a couple more things we are focused on as far as trying to improve returns and so forth. We talked about cycle time. Speaker 100:36:24We have made dramatic improvements. We still think there is some improvement there we can make. Also sales pace, again, make sure we have a very focused product, Who are the buyers that we provide, the products they want, best trained sales team, etcetera. But when you look at sales pace, cycle time, big impact on overall returns. Phil and I are playing off of each other here. Speaker 100:36:54Just on the cycle time, in many of our markets right now, our cycle time is approaching pre COVID levels, which is where it needs to be. And we still have a little bit of room to run there in some other markets, but 60 day improvement on average Year over year in 2023, I think was heroic. That was our goal. I thought we thought it was a stretch goal, but we hit it. And As I said in my primary comments, cycle time remains a very, very intense area of focus for us and that contributes to margins as well and returns. Speaker 100:37:31Yes. And you also know, Jay, I mean, we're just getting started in Nashville. We closed our first house in Nashville in the 4th quarter. We just opened for sale our 2nd community in Nashville, so we're excited about that. Our new Fort Myers, Naples division also getting additional stores open for sales and closings. Speaker 100:37:55So we're excited about those two markets contributing to our results. Speaker 400:38:01Got you. And then one more and I'll turn it over. When you think about an attached home versus a detached home, Just rough average, is there a gross margin differential on a per foot basis between those 2? Okay. Speaker 100:38:16No, no. The underwriting, we haven't changed our approach in underwriting. Every community is underwritten to hit certain thresholds and we're not doing attached product at lower margins. That's not the goal. If anything, Hopefully, with pace and so forth, it will be at least equal to, if not better than what we get with single family. Speaker 100:38:44We've had and I don't want to Let this go and said either, we have a lot of move up product that's very successful for us. And so it's We're not just we don't have all our eggs in one basket, but about half of our business is designed to be very affordable. Operator00:39:29There are no further questions at this time. Mr. Craig, Please proceed with your closing remarks. Speaker 100:39:35Thank you for joining us. Look forward to talking to you next quarter. Operator00:39:42Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallM/I Homes Q4 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Annual report(10-K) M/I Homes Earnings HeadlinesM/I Homes bringing townhomes to Palmera at Wellen ParkMay 2, 2025 | msn.comRaymond James Issues Pessimistic Forecast for M/I Homes (NYSE:MHO) Stock PriceMay 2, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comThe Trump Dump is starting; Get out of stocks now?The first 365 days of the Trump presidency… Will be the best time to get rich in American history.May 8, 2025 | Paradigm Press (Ad)Wedbush Has Bullish Estimate for M/I Homes Q3 EarningsApril 29, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comBrokerages Set M/I Homes, Inc. (NYSE:MHO) Target Price at $176.50April 29, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comM/I Homes (NYSE:MHO) Cut to "Hold" at StockNews.comApril 28, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comSee More M/I Homes Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like M/I Homes? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on M/I Homes and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About M/I HomesM/I Homes (NYSE:MHO), together with its subsidiaries, engages in the construction and sale of single-family residential homes in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, Florida, Texas, North Carolina, and Tennessee. The company operates through Northern Homebuilding, Southern Homebuilding, and Financial Services segments. It also designs, constructs, markets, and sells single-family homes and attached townhomes to first-time, millennial, move-up, empty-nester, multi-generational, and luxury homebuyers under the M/I Homes brand name. In addition, the company purchases undeveloped land to develop into developed lots for the construction of single-family homes, as well as for sale to others. Further, the company originates and sells mortgages; and serves as a title insurance agent by providing title insurance policies, examination, and closing services to purchasers of its homes. M/I Homes, Inc. was founded in 1976 and is based in Columbus, Ohio.View M/I Homes ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Disney Stock Jumps on Earnings—Is the Magic Sustainable?Archer Stock Eyes Q1 Earnings After UAE UpdatesFord Motor Stock Rises After Earnings, But Momentum May Not Last Broadcom Stock Gets a Lift on Hyperscaler Earnings & CapEx BoostPalantir Stock Drops Despite Stellar Earnings: What's Next?Is Eli Lilly a Buy After Weak Earnings and CVS-Novo Partnership?Is Reddit Stock a Buy, Sell, or Hold After Earnings Release? 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There are 5 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Mi Homes 4th Quarter and Year End Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. Operator00:00:20As a reminder, this call is being recorded on Wednesday, January 31, 2024. I would now like to turn over the conference to Phil Craig. Speaker 100:00:32Thank you for joining us. Joining me on the call today is Bob Schottenstein, our CEO and President and Derek Klutch, President of our Mortgage Company. First to address Regulation Fair Disclosure, we encourage you to ask any questions regarding issues that you material during this call because we are prohibited from discussing significant non public items with you directly. And as to forward looking statements, I want to remind everyone that the cautionary language about forward looking statements contained in today's press release also applies to any comments made during this call. Also be advised that the company undertakes no obligation to update any forward looking statements made during this call. Speaker 100:01:17With that, I'll turn the call over to Bob. Thanks, Phil. Good morning and thank you for joining our call as we highlight our Q4 and full year 2023 results. We had an outstanding year in 2023, one of the best in our 47 year history. We are particularly pleased with our results given the significant headwinds the housing industry faced as we entered 2023, as well as a rising interest rate environment throughout most of the year, together with inflationary pressures and general uncertainty within the economy. Speaker 100:01:54For the year, we had very strong income and returns. Pretax income equaled $607,000,000 with a pretax return of 15%. Gross margins for the year came in at 25.3 percent, the same as last year. We were pleased to see our gross margins hold steady, notwithstanding the choppy market conditions and rising rates. Return on equity was a very solid 20.2%. Speaker 100:02:25Strength of our communities and product offerings along with our selective and very targeted use of below market financing incentives contributed to our strong 4th quarter and full year sales performance. In the 4th quarter, We sold 1588 Homes, a 61% increase over last year, with significantly better per community absorptions. Clearly, as rates began to fall in the 4th quarter, we saw a pickup in both traffic and demand. Notably, Our December sales were the best month of the Q4. For the full year, we sold 7,977 homes, an increase of 20% over 2022. Speaker 100:03:14Our monthly sales pace during the year averaged 3.3 homes per community compared to a sales pace of 3.1 homes per community during 2022. And the quality of buyers that we're seeing continues to be strong with average credit scores of 747 and an average down payment above 18%. Our Smart Series, which is our most affordably priced product, continues to have a very positive impact not just on our sales, but our overall performance. Smart Series sales comprised 53% of total company sales in the 4th quarter compared to 52% in the 4th quarter a year ago. And I'm pleased to report that the improvement in traffic and demand that we saw in the Q4 has continued as we begin this year, with our January sales exceeding last year. Speaker 100:04:12We are very optimistic about a good selling season. We continue to see improvement in our construction cycle time. During the Q4, our cycle time improved by an additional 10 days sequentially. Year over year, our cycle time has improved by more than 60 days. Improvement in cycle time remains a major area of focus for us. Speaker 100:04:37In terms of deliveries, given that we began 20 23 with roughly 15% fewer homes in the field, we were very pleased to close 8,112 homes for the year, 3% less than 2022. Now I will provide some additional comments on our markets. Our division income contributions in 2023 were led by Dallas, Tampa, Columbus, Orlando, Raleigh, Sarasota and Charlotte all had very strong years. New contracts for the Q4 in our Southern region increased 44% and 89% in our Northern region. For the year, new contracts increased 18% in our Southern region and 22% in our Northern region. Speaker 100:05:29Our deliveries decreased 17% over last year's Q4 in the Southern region, comprising 11.71 deliveries or 58 percent of our total. Northern region contributed 848 deliveries, a decrease of 13% over last year's Q4. For the year, homes delivered, as I mentioned before or rather homes delivered increased 3% in the southern region, but decreased 12% in the northern region. Our owned and controlled lot position in the Southern region increased by 12% compared to last year. Owned and controlled lots increased 3% in the northern region. Speaker 100:06:13We have an excellent land position. Company wide, we own approximately 24,400 lots, which is roughly a 3 year supply. Of that total, 28% of the lots are in our northern region, with a balance of 72% in the southern region. On top of our own lots, we control via option contracts an additional 21,300 lots. So in total, we own and control approximately 45,700 single family lots, which is up 9% from a year ago and equates to about a 5 year supply. Speaker 100:06:49Most importantly, about 47% of our lots are controlled pursuant to option contracts. This gives us significant flexibility to react to changes in demand or individual market conditions. With respect to our balance sheet, we ended the year with an all time record $2,500,000,000 of equity, which equates to a book value of $91 per share. We also ended the year with $733,000,000 of cash and 0 borrowings under our $650,000,000 unsecured revolving credit facility. This resulted in a debt to capital ratio of 22%, down from 25% a year ago and a net debt to capital ratio of minus 2%. Speaker 100:07:40As I conclude, let me just state we are in the best financial condition in our history. We feel very good about our business and fully expect to deliver another year of strong results in 2024. With that, I'll turn it over to Phil. Thanks, Bob. Our new contracts were up 35% in October, up 92% in November and up 64% in December for a 61% improvement in the quarter overall. Speaker 100:08:08Our sales pace was 2.5 in the 4th quarter compared to 1.8 in last year's 4th quarter and our cancellation rate for the 4th quarter was percent. As to our buyer profile, 53% of our 4th quarter sales were to first time buyers compared to 58% a year ago. In addition, 62% of our 4th quarter sales were inventory homes compared to 64% in last year's Q4. Our community count was 213 at the end of 2023 compared to 196 at the end of 22. During the quarter, we opened 20 new communities while closing 11. Speaker 100:08:50And for the year, we opened 76 new communities. We currently estimate that our average 2024 community count will be about 10% higher than 2023. We delivered 2019 homes in the 4th quarter, delivering 59% of our backlog compared to 53% a year ago. And as we stated in our Q3 conference call, We entered the Q4 with 1200 less homes in the field than a year ago. And at December 31, we had 4,400 homes in the field versus 4,500 homes in the field a year ago. Speaker 100:09:29Revenue decreased 20% in the 4th quarter to 973,000,000 Our average closing price for the Q4 was $471,000 a 4% decrease when compared to last year's Q4 average closing price of $492,000 Our gross margins were 25.1 percent for the quarter, up 2 50 basis points year over year. And for the full year, our gross margins were flat at 25.3%. Our SG and A expenses increased by 4% in the 4th quarter, due primarily to higher incentive compensation, increased real estate taxes on our inventory levels and the cost of having more communities. Interest income increased to $8,300,000 for the quarter due to our higher cash balances and our pre tax income was 15.1 versus 15.4% last year and our return on equity remained strong at 20%. During the Q4, we generated 100 $53,000,000 of EBITDA and for the full year we generated $648,000,000 of EBITDA. Speaker 100:10:36We generated $552,000,000 of cash flow from operations this year compared to generating $184,000,000 last year. Our effective tax rate was 24% in the 4th quarter compared to 21% last year's 4th quarter and our effective rate for the year was 23%. We expect 2024's effective tax rate to also be around 23%. Earnings per diluted share for the quarter decreased to $3.66 per share from $4.65 per share in last year's Q4 and decreased 6% for the year to $16.21 from $17.24 last year. During the Q4, we spent $25,000,000 repurchasing our shares and for the year we spent $65,000,000 We currently have $128,000,000 available under our repurchase authorization. Speaker 100:11:31And in the last 3 years, we have repurchased 9% of our outstanding shares. Now Derek Klutch will address our mortgage company results. Thank you, Phil. Speaker 200:11:40In the Q4, our mortgage and title operations achieved pretax income of $4,700,000 down $5,000,000 from 2022 on revenue of $19,700,000 down 13% over last year, primarily as a result of lower pricing margins, lower average loan amounts and fewer loans closed. For the year, pre tax income was $38,400,000 and revenue was $93,800,000 Loan to value on our first mortgages for the quarter was 82% in 2023, The same as 20 22's 4th quarter, 66% of loans closed in the 4th quarter were conventional and 34% were FHA or VA. This compares to 79% and 21%, respectively, for 20 22's same period. Our average mortgage amount decreased to $383,000 in 2023's 4th quarter compared to $392,000 in 20.22. Loans originated in the quarter decreased 7% from 1497 to 1387 and the volume of loans sold increased by 9%. Speaker 200:12:58Mentioned earlier, the borrower profile remains solid with an average down payment of over 18% for the quarter and an average credit score on mortgages originated by Mi Financial of 747. Our mortgage operation captured 88% of the business in the quarter, an increase from 77% in 20 22's 4th quarter. We maintain a separate mortgage repurchase facility that provides us with funding for our mortgage originations prior to the sale to investors. At December 31, We had a total of $166,000,000 outstanding under this facility, which expires in October of this year. Facility is a typical 3 64 day mortgage repurchase line that we extend annually. Speaker 200:13:47Now I'll turn the call back over to Phil. Speaker 100:13:49Thanks, Derek. As far as the balance sheet, we ended the 4th quarter with a cash balance of $733,000,000 and no borrowings under our unsecured revolving credit facility. Our credit facility matures in late 2026 and our public debt with interest rates below 5% mature in 2028 and 2030. Our total homebuilding inventory at year end was $2,800,000,000 which was flat with the prior year level. During 2023, we spent $344,000,000 on land purchases and $512,000,000 on land development for a total land spend of $856,000,000 This was up from $837,000,000 in 2022. Speaker 100:14:33At December 31, 'twenty three, we had $715,000,000 of raw land and land under development and $721,000,000 of finished unsold lots. We own 8,724 unsold finished lots. We have a very strong land position at year end Controlling 46,000 lots, we own 24,400 lots, which is about a 3 year supply and of the lots controlled, 53% are owned, which is about a 5.5 year supply. And at the end of the year, we had 592 completed inventory homes, about 3 per community and 2023 total inventory homes. Of the total inventory, 912 were in the northern region and 11 11 is in the southern region. Speaker 100:15:21And at December 31, 2022, we had 4 85 completed inventory homes and 1827 total inventory homes. This completes our presentation. We'll now open the call for any questions or comments. Operator00:15:38Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now conduct a question and answer Your first question comes from Alan Ratner from Zelman and Associates, your line is now open. Speaker 300:16:06Hey, guys. Good morning. Congrats on a great year. Speaker 100:16:09Thanks, Al. Speaker 400:16:09Thanks for all the detail. Speaker 100:16:11Must be celebrating your football team's performance. Speaker 300:16:15I'm still riding high, Bob. I'm still riding high. Speaker 100:16:18I expect nothing less. Speaker 300:16:21Next year might look a little different, but we'll see. We'll worry about that then. So a lot of great detail there. Your margins have been pretty stable in this 25% range for the last several quarters. As you think about 2024, I know you're not going to give specific guidance, but how are you thinking about the moving pieces of margin, the outlook on material and labor inflation, land inflation in terms of what's going to be flowing through and then ultimately directionally what your views are on pricing now given what seems like a pretty healthy start to the spring selling season so far, any ability to push price. Speaker 300:17:01So if you could kind of just talk about these 3 buckets, I think it will help us Speaker 100:17:05Yes. I think on the cost side, things have stabilized quite a bit, Even on land development, a year ago, I was quite concerned, we were quite concerned about inflation on land development. Clearly, there has been some, but that appears to be moderating somewhat as well. Maybe not every single aspect, still probably a little bit of pressure on concrete. But on the cost side, I think we feel pretty good about where that stands in terms of moderating inflation and moderating increases. Speaker 100:17:41A year ago, as We looked at what we thought was going to happen in 2023. We thought margins would be under considerable pressure given where rates were and the softening of demand. And as it turned out, even though we did have to spend money, on as I mentioned, on a selective basis and some of it was very targeted for certain communities to provide a more marketable rate. We were really pleased And surprised frankly that our margins held steady at just over 25% as you mentioned. Yes. Speaker 100:18:20It's very, very hard to forecast margins. Everybody has an opinion. But sitting where we are now, as I look at demand and I look at Website traffic, the way the year is starting out, what we're hearing in the field, Even in markets that might have been a little weaker throughout the early parts of last year, now appear to be quite a bit stronger. We're hopeful that we can continue to maintain margins in this level. I don't know if they'll go up. Speaker 100:18:52We're super excited about all the new communities we're going to be opening. We have and it was reflected in the average selling price that Phil mentioned coming down slightly. We have a lot more affordable product offering that we hope will provide bigger pace and strong margins coming out this year. But you don't know until you really know if you're really honest about it. But, I guess sitting here today, generally, pretty optimistic about the state of housing, the state of demand and our ability to continue to generate what I think are very solid returns. Speaker 100:19:44We're not expecting much erosion, frankly, and maybe we'll be fortunate with a little bit of uptick because we don't see the pressure on the cost side maybe quite as much as we did a couple of years ago. And frankly, the other thing is, is For the most part, the supply chain disruptions that we just couldn't stop talking about post COVID have now seen to have pretty much cleared out and dissipated. Speaker 300:20:18That's all really helpful and encouraging to hear. So hopefully that momentum continues. And yes, congrats on maintaining margins. Speaker 100:20:27Look, look, and I don't think we're alone in this, which is also comforting. If you're the only one that's experiencing something, it always makes you wonder whether it's good or bad. But I think that there's a lot of momentum within the industry right now. And we're just you sort of hear things and seeing what other builders have recently said as well, it resonates with us. And Alan, just a couple more things, just kind of follow-up on what Bob said. Speaker 100:20:55The stores we opened last year ended up performing better pace, better margin than we anticipated. And we talked about our current estimate of this year having on average 10% more stores, over half of those expected openings are in the first half this year, which again will not only help us with sales, also with closings this year. So we're very excited about the new stores we're opening also. Speaker 300:21:29That's great. Thanks for that addition there, Phil. Second question around kind of Spec versus BTO, I mean, Smart Series has obviously been a huge focus of yours for the last several years. I think if I heard you correctly, the share of spec sales actually ticked a little bit lower this quarter year on year. And I guess I'm curious as you think about the landscape Today with cycle times normalizing, resale inventory still incredibly low, but maybe starting to tick up a little bit. Speaker 300:22:03Does that change your thinking at all as far as the mix of your business at spec versus BTO? Are you starting to see Speaker 100:22:09consumer inventory there? Yes, I'll let Phil give you the Yes, great question. I'll let Phil give a little more of the detail. We've increased It's a subdivision business, so it's not necessarily the case in every subdivision. But on average, our plan is to have more specs than maybe we would have had 3 or 4 years ago. Speaker 100:22:29We've ramped up our specs for all the reasons that you mentioned. And then the other thing is, in terms of mix with Smart Series and also townhomes, attached townhomes, which represent an increasing percentage of our business company wide, that will also result in more specs with these 4 unit and 6 unit buildings being the most common form of townhome. So you start a building with 1 or 2 sales and you automatically have 3 or 4 specs out there. Phil, you want to add anything else to that? Yes. Speaker 100:23:12As far as spec levels, again, in general, Depending on the month or whatever, we're selling 50% to 60% specs. One of the good news is that The gross margin on specs versus to be built is not very much in some markets. Matter of fact, it's like really, really close. So, we do feel good about our spec levels. We are doing more attached townhouses. Speaker 100:23:42We're doing more smaller single family detached and by its nature we're doing a few more specs in those. Mike expects to get up to the 2,200, 2,300, 2,400. But again, as our store count moves up, That's about 10 per store. And then having 2, 3, 4 finished specs, again, seems like a good number to us. Per community. Speaker 100:24:09Per community. So we do feel good about our spec levels. We want to make sure that we have what we need. Speaker 300:24:17Makes sense. All right. Well, appreciate it all and best of luck in the New Year. Speaker 100:24:22Thanks. You too. Operator00:24:26Your next question comes from Jay McAnish from Wedbush. Your line is now open. Speaker 100:24:35Hey, Jay. Speaker 400:24:36Hey, good morning, everyone. Hope you all are doing well. Bob or sorry, Phil, if you don't mind, what was the monthly order pace through 4Q and maybe any color you can give us on January? Speaker 100:24:52I'll take the last part of that first and then Phil will give you the pace. Somewhat surprising, well, just let me start over. What I mentioned was, is that the increase in demand and traffic that really sort of intensified during the Q4 and that resulted in December being our best month of the quarter. That has continued and that increase in traffic and demand And well, technically January is not over. Our January sales will exceed last year's. Speaker 100:25:31We're very pleased with the way the year is starting out and optimistic about the selling season. Phil can give you the details on pace. Yes, sales pace Jay, in the Q4 it was 2.5. In the Q4 last year it was 1.8. And again, in the Q3, we were 3.4%. Speaker 100:25:52So again, we have been improving pace and Have a big focus on that. Hope to continue improving that. Great. Speaker 400:26:05And then could you talk about the community count? Because you all guided, I think, to like 225 maybe and you came in at 213. Maybe what's going on there? And I know you said you're going to open 50% of the new stores in the first half of twenty twenty four. I mean, is it going to be a pretty big step up in the total community count in the Q1 sequentially? Speaker 100:26:31Yes, Jay. Again, overall, we expect our community count this year to be on average up about 10%. Last year, we were a little short of where we thought we would be at year end, primarily because about 10 stores were delayed. Most of them are just sliding into this year. We do expect Over half the stores we're opening this year to be the first half. Speaker 100:27:03So if you kind of look at the year in general, We ended the year with $2.13 We expect to get to that $2.25 type level by the middle of the year. And again, the second half of the year gets a little more difficult because it is taking a little longer to develop land and those type of things. But we do feel comfortable saying today we think we'll be up 10% on average. Speaker 400:27:31Okay. All right. And then I guess, Alan already asked you the gross margin question, but just maybe what type of pricing power you're seeing currently, maybe what percentage of your communities during Q4, were you able to raise prices raise based pricing? Speaker 100:27:52I think pricing power is limited. We can continue to stay at this 25% gross margin level this year. We're going to have a phenomenal year. And that's our goal. I don't know that I can with any kind of certainty whether we'll be able to grow margins. Speaker 100:28:21I think that the balance between demand and price right now in the market generally is really good. And Like I said before, a year ago, I thought margins were going to fall off 100 basis points or 200 basis points just because of the higher rates and so forth. And that didn't happen last year. We were really pleased that our margins held steady. I think that's a I think that's strong performance. Speaker 100:28:49I think it's a testament to our people and our product and our communities. But I think that, I think knowing what we know today, I'm not sure how much pricing power we'll see, but I think we'd be thrilled. And I think there's a good possibility that our margins will remain as we talked about with Alan in this 25% range. Speaker 400:29:17Right. And I guess from a competitive standpoint, saw a lot of your larger competitors Pretty aggressive on both base price discounts and incentives during the calendar Q4 of 2023. I guess, what are you seeing now relative to what was going on a month ago? And do you feel like the pace of incentives may have to start picking up again if mortgage rates don't start coming down? Speaker 100:29:46Well, I actually have a slightly contrary view on that. I think the first one, it's very market specific. It's cliche, but every market is different. I think that in a number of instances, We're starting to see incentives line, ours have and the slight The slight decline in mortgage rates that we've seen over the last 90 days It's made it so that you don't have to spend as much where needed to provide a rate in either the low 6s or the high 5s. And you'd rather not spend anything on that, but that's what we have been doing and the net net of that has resulted in our 25 0.3% gross margins. Speaker 100:30:48If demand continues to stay like it does Like it is now, I'd like to think that builder behavior will respond accordingly and not see as much of a need for incentivizing, that's sort of how we're thinking about it. Jay, also as Bob mentioned, every subdivision is a little different because we're definitely in the subdivision business. If you look at the 213 communities we have Going into this year, like we said, 76 of them opened in 2023 and over 100 of them opened in 20 22. So how you open, what model you have, what the specification level is of those houses, all those things, how many specs do you want? No, again, I mean, we're not driven solely by volume. Speaker 100:31:43Obviously, we want to continue to grow and think we are positioned to grow. But again, when you have $3,000,000,000 $4,000,000,000 $5,000,000,000 of revenue, 15 basis points, 25 basis points mean a whole lot. So we really try to focus on every subdivision, not get too far ahead of ourselves, make sure we're focused on who the buyer is. So every subdivision is really a little different. We don't do blanket things like, oh, let's do interest rate buy downs everywhere. Speaker 100:32:16And some customers need an interest rate buy down for the payment help. Some customers need closing cost help. So again, We try to deal with it more on a rifle approach as opposed to just a shotgun across the board. Speaker 300:32:33Sure. Speaker 400:32:35Any notion of what you're going to spend on land acquisition and development this year? Speaker 100:32:42Well, we definitely expect to spend more. We did spend a little more in 2023 than 20 22 And the majority is continuing to be land development. Land development costs, as Bob says, It's not going up the way it was. The good news is kind of stabilizing. But we do want to continue to grow, have more stores. Speaker 100:33:05So we do expect to be spending more on land this year. Look, I think we've said this before, Our goal is to grow the business. We're very bullish about housing and we're really bullish about our business. And Our growth goals, 5% to 10% per year, hopefully closer to 10% and that remains our strategic outlook. Speaker 400:33:34Got you. And then just one other question because we've heard some builders talking about it. And this is kind of relative to what you said, Bob, about gross margins being flat at this 25 ish level. Land prices, we've heard, have been going up some of the builders, labor prices seem to be going up. I guess what are the levers you're going to have to pull? Speaker 400:33:54Is it going to be maybe reduction in The other input costs that are coming in that keep your gross margin flat around this 25% level, Bob, especially with lean prices seeing to move up, I guess, kind of what are the levers you're going to have to push and pull to hold at these levels, especially if you don't think you're going to get much pricing power year, what are the things you're going to have to do to maintain at this 25% level? Speaker 100:34:22Continue to produce really high quality affordable product, whether it's attached or detached and well located communities. You probably would like a more magical answer, but I think that's what it goes back to. Well located communities will sell and they will sell at really good margins. And if the majority of our communities Check the box of being exceptionally well located, we think they do. We think we can maintain our margins that way. Speaker 100:34:58That's what happened in 2023. We expect it to happen in 2024. And that's I mean definitely we're all focused On that couple of details with that Jay, specifications of the product to make sure we're putting things in the homes that people really want, that they need and they'll pay for, not overbuilding. That's very important to us. As we increase the mix of attached product in our company, Probably approaching somewhere around 20% company wide. Speaker 100:35:31We get higher density And that bring even though the land may cost more, all those things hunt back into the average selling price. If I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if someone would have said a year ago, your average price is going to come down or your margin stay the same, You might have go, I don't think so, but that's what happened. And we may still see a slight relative reduction in average price because of The continued leaning into of slightly more attached product as well as we've just had Home run success with our Smart Series and it's over half of our business and it will continue to be. And then a couple more things we are focused on as far as trying to improve returns and so forth. We talked about cycle time. Speaker 100:36:24We have made dramatic improvements. We still think there is some improvement there we can make. Also sales pace, again, make sure we have a very focused product, Who are the buyers that we provide, the products they want, best trained sales team, etcetera. But when you look at sales pace, cycle time, big impact on overall returns. Phil and I are playing off of each other here. Speaker 100:36:54Just on the cycle time, in many of our markets right now, our cycle time is approaching pre COVID levels, which is where it needs to be. And we still have a little bit of room to run there in some other markets, but 60 day improvement on average Year over year in 2023, I think was heroic. That was our goal. I thought we thought it was a stretch goal, but we hit it. And As I said in my primary comments, cycle time remains a very, very intense area of focus for us and that contributes to margins as well and returns. Speaker 100:37:31Yes. And you also know, Jay, I mean, we're just getting started in Nashville. We closed our first house in Nashville in the 4th quarter. We just opened for sale our 2nd community in Nashville, so we're excited about that. Our new Fort Myers, Naples division also getting additional stores open for sales and closings. Speaker 100:37:55So we're excited about those two markets contributing to our results. Speaker 400:38:01Got you. And then one more and I'll turn it over. When you think about an attached home versus a detached home, Just rough average, is there a gross margin differential on a per foot basis between those 2? Okay. Speaker 100:38:16No, no. The underwriting, we haven't changed our approach in underwriting. Every community is underwritten to hit certain thresholds and we're not doing attached product at lower margins. That's not the goal. If anything, Hopefully, with pace and so forth, it will be at least equal to, if not better than what we get with single family. Speaker 100:38:44We've had and I don't want to Let this go and said either, we have a lot of move up product that's very successful for us. And so it's We're not just we don't have all our eggs in one basket, but about half of our business is designed to be very affordable. Operator00:39:29There are no further questions at this time. Mr. Craig, Please proceed with your closing remarks. Speaker 100:39:35Thank you for joining us. Look forward to talking to you next quarter. Operator00:39:42Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.Read morePowered by