NYSE:CBZ CBIZ Q4 2023 Earnings Report $72.61 +0.82 (+1.14%) As of 03:24 PM Eastern This is a fair market value price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast CBIZ EPS ResultsActual EPS-$0.26Consensus EPS -$0.27Beat/MissBeat by +$0.01One Year Ago EPS-$0.21CBIZ Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$327.50 millionExpected Revenue$308.87 millionBeat/MissBeat by +$18.63 millionYoY Revenue Growth+11.00%CBIZ Announcement DetailsQuarterQ4 2023Date2/15/2024TimeBefore Market OpensConference Call DateThursday, February 15, 2024Conference Call Time11:00AM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Annual Report (10-K)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by CBIZ Q4 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrFebruary 15, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 7 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the CBIZ 4th Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen only mode. Please also note today's event is being recorded. And at this time, I would like to turn the floor over to Lori Novickis, Director of Corporate Relations. Ma'am, you may begin. Speaker 100:00:44Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q4 full year 2023 CBIZ results conference call. In connection with this call, today's press release and investor presentation have been posted to the Investor Relations page of our website, cbiz.com. As a reminder, this call is being webcast and a link to a live webcast can be found on our website. An archived replay and transcript will also be made available following the call. Before we begin, we would like to remind you that during the call, management may discuss certain non GAAP financial measures. Speaker 100:01:23Reconciliations of these measures can be found in the financial tables of today's press release and investor presentation. Today's call may also include forward looking statements regarding our business, financial condition, results of operations, cash flows, strategies and prospects. Forward looking statements represent only estimates on the date of this call and are not intended to give any assurance of future results. Because forward looking statements relate to matters that have not yet occurred, these statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause future results to differ materially and CBIZ assumes no obligation to update these statements. Speaker 100:02:09A more detailed description of such factors can be found in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Joining us for today's call are Jerry Grisko, President and Chief Executive Officer and Ware Grove, Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Jerry. Speaker 200:02:27Thank you, Lori, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to share our Q4 and full year results for 2023 and our outlook for the year ahead. Last year at this time, we reported on record performance and results in 2022. We are pleased that this momentum continued in 2023 and that despite uncertainty at the start of the year about a potentially challenging business climate ahead, we successfully continued our trend in 2023 of achieving growth across every major service line of our business. Over the past year, CBIZ posted strong growth, achieved new milestones, and demonstrated the resilience of our business model in an uncertain environment. Speaker 200:03:09Most notably, for the full year, total revenue was up 12.7%, organic revenue grew by 7.4%, earnings per share was up by 18.9%, adjusted earnings per share was up by 13.1% and our stock price increased 33.6%. The fundamental attributes that define our model, including a blend of essential recurring services, combined with more discretionary project based services, a diverse client base that spans companies of all sizes, and a broad and growing geographic footprint continue to drive our success. As we head into 2024, we expect the economic climate to remain favorable for the types of services that we provide to our clients. Now turning to the performance of our business divisions in 2023. Our Financial Services division demonstrated impressive growth across every major service line, including our accounting and tax, advisory and government healthcare consulting businesses. Speaker 200:04:11Our accounting and tax services remained in high demand, which has allowed us to continue to achieve price increases in excess of our wage increases. Our work to support clients in securing employee retention tax credit also helped to bolster our results. Our advisory services also continue to experience robust growth as strong client demand translated into steady production for our private equity advisory business, our risk and advisory, valuation and forensic consulting groups. While demand for our technical accounting services group, a group that specializes in assisting companies in preparing to go public, reflected a somewhat muted market for IPOs in 2023, we are seeing signs of improvement for these services in the coming year. Finally, our government healthcare consulting business finished the year strong in terms of both kicking off project work and securing new business. Speaker 200:05:04We reported on our last earnings call that this part of the business experienced some softness due to a number of large contracts being delayed. The new work that we are seeing in this space more than made up for these timing changes. I will remind you that project delays are common when serving certain types of public sector clients and the business continues to navigate these changes well while maintaining strong performance. Now turning to our Benefits and Insurance division, where we built on our momentum coming into the year to achieve strong growth and performance across every major service line. While the key drivers for growth varied slightly within the 4 major service lines, all benefited from high client retention rates, new sales and continued improvements in pricing. Speaker 200:05:48For our employee benefits business, growth came from higher starting valuations, new business, increased contingents and improved client retention rates. Our producer count was also up along with another key metric we monitor, average production per producer. The strong activity from our producers is evident in our full year results and should provide some strong momentum going into 2024. Moving to our Property and Casualty business, we experienced growth in both the program and commercial sides of the business. Higher starting valuations, new production, strong client retention and trend also bolstered our favorable results. Speaker 200:06:28The Retirement and Investment Solutions business saw growth through increased demand for our actuarial project work. We're also able to increase our producer pool within this Finally, our payroll business had another strong year performance driven primarily by demand for our upmarket payroll platform, which also included high client retention rates for this service. We are extremely pleased with the performance of the overall business throughout 2023. As we look ahead to 2024, we remain confident in our ability to continue to perform well and to capitalize on this momentum. Based on our strong financial performance over the past 3 years, the high demand for our services, our ability to retain clients, the investments to accelerate growth that we've made in the business and our access to capital, we will once again be providing financial guidance for the year. Speaker 200:07:20With this, I will turn it over to Ware Grove, our Chief Financial Officer, to provide more specific details on our financial performance for the Q4 and the full year 2023 and our thoughts on guidance for 2024. Speaker 300:07:32Ware? Thank you, Jerry, and good morning, everyone. Let me take a few minutes to talk about key highlights of the 4th quarter and year to date numbers we released this morning. Our business continues to be strong in every major service line within both financial services and within benefits and insurance. We are pleased that results in the 4th quarter and the full year are in line with our expectations. Speaker 300:07:58After encountering some weakness in the first half of twenty twenty three, both the government healthcare consulting and the California core accounting and tax business recorded strong 4th quarter and second half results. The first half twenty twenty three contract delays that we encountered within government healthcare consulting have resolved and the IRS tax filing delays in California moved a large portion of this recurring business from first half into second half of twenty twenty three. With the acquisition of Somerset in February of 2023, generating approximately $55,000,000 of annual core tax and accounting services revenue, at the end of the third quarter, we guided that we expected the higher portion of core accounting business within our business mix this year would amplify the seasonal nature of our consolidated results in the 4th quarter. Coupled with the impact of higher interest expense in the Q4 this year compared with last year, the loss recorded in the Q4 this year was higher than last year. Total revenue in the 4th quarter increased by $32,500,000 up 11% over 4th quarter a year ago. Speaker 300:09:08The 4th quarter same unit revenue was up $19,900,000 or up by 6.8% with acquisitions contributing $12,600,000 or 4.2 percent to growth compared with last year. For the full year, total revenue grew by $179,200,000 or up by 12.7% compared with 2022. Same unit revenue for the 12 months grew by $104,000,000 or up by 7.4%, with acquisitions contributing $75,200,000 or 5.3 percent of revenue growth for the 12 months this year compared with last year. Within Financial Services for the Q4, total revenue was up by 13%. Same unit revenue for the Q4 was up by 7.1%. Speaker 300:10:00For the 12 months, total revenue within Financial Services grew by 14.9% and same unit revenue for the 12 months was up by 7.6%. We experienced strong revenue growth across all lines of services, including core tax and accounting, advisory services and government healthcare consulting services for both the 4th quarter and for the 12 months in 'twenty three compared to 'twenty two. Within Benefits and Insurance, total revenue in the 4th quarter of 'twenty three grew by 5.7 percent and same unit revenue grew by 4.8%. For the full year, total revenue grew by 6.9% with same unit revenue growing by 6.5%. Every major line of service within our Benefits and Insurance group recorded revenue growth for both the Q4 and for the 12 months. Speaker 300:10:52We continue to see strong client retention and new client production. The investments we have made in recent years to hire and increase the number of new business producers continue to gain traction. We remain committed to further enhancing growth capabilities within the Benefits and Insurance Group and we will continue to make investments in hiring and in developing additional producers in 2024. On February 1, 'twenty three, we acquired Indianapolis based Somerset CPAs and Advisors with estimated annual revenue of approximately $55,000,000 There are transaction closing costs plus one time integration related expenses associated with this transaction. In a similar manner to reporting New York based Marks Paneth acquisition costs in 2022, we are reporting an adjustment to eliminate Somerset acquisition related costs from GAAP reported results report adjusted results this year. Speaker 300:11:51We are extremely pleased to have both the Somerset team on board this year and the Marc Spanniff team, now in its 2nd year and both are performing in line with our expectations. In addition to these acquisition related expenses, this year we reported a gain of $1,500,000 related to sale of technology asset in our Financial Services practice group in the 3rd quarter and a gain of $1,400,000 resulting from the receipt of contingent payments in the 4th quarter related to the last year sale of a book of business within Benefits and Insurance. Last year, we recorded a gain of $2,400,000 related to this transaction. These gains were recorded in other income and represented approximately $0.02 per share for the Q4 of 'twenty 3 and $0.04 per share in 'twenty 2. With a view towards presenting meaningful comparable information, eliminating the impact of these gains and eliminating the acquisition related expenses, adjusted earnings per share this year is $2.41 up 13.1 percent compared with adjusted earnings per share of $2.13 last year. Speaker 300:13:06Considering these same adjustments, adjusted EBITDA, which serves to eliminate the impact of both tax and interest costs, was $223,800,000 for the 12 months this year, up 17.7% over adjusted EBITDA of $190,100,000 last year. A table reconciling reported GAAP numbers to these adjusted earnings per share and adjusted EBITDA numbers that I'm referencing is included in the earnings release issued this morning. So you can review the detail of the items included to arrive at adjusted numbers. We have previously talked about the level of healthcare and benefits, travel and entertainment expenses and marketing expenses that are normalizing the higher levels post pandemic. As we continue to restore and expand outreach to clients and prospects by design, travel and entertainment expenses are trending higher and we've also restarted several media campaigns in our marketing programs this year. Speaker 300:14:07Some of you may recall seeing the CBIZ TV spots positioned on CNBC, PGA Golf events and in other spots last fall. For 2023, collectively these expenses represented a 20 basis point headwind to margin on pre tax income compared with the prior year. We continue to project that these expenses will settle in at approximately 100 basis points lower than pre pandemic levels, but for a period of time, the year over year comparison has presented a headwind. As always, details of the impact of accounting for gains and losses in our non qualified deferred compensation plan are outlined in the release. Because we are comparing a period in 2022 with capital market losses compared with capital markets gains in this year, there is a significant impact to the GAAP reported earnings as you look at both gross margin and operating income, and you can find this information noted in our release. Speaker 300:15:07As a reminder, pre tax income margin is not impacted by this accounting factor. We will continue to say that over time, we expect to achieve a 20 basis points to 50 basis points annual increase in pre tax margin. In any given year, margin improvement may be either higher or lower for a number of reasons, including the impact of the expense level headwinds in 'twenty three that I mentioned earlier. As you look back over time, we are very pleased that our performance has been near the higher end of that range. Now turning to cash flow items and balance sheet. Speaker 300:15:42At December 31, 'twenty three, the balance outstanding on the $600,000,000 unsecured credit facility was approximately $312,000,000 with about $272,000,000 of unused capacity. Facility. This provides plenty of capacity continue to both to continue both strategic acquisitions and provides the flexibility to continue with share repurchases. In 2023, including the Somerset acquisition, we completed a total of 5 acquisitions. We used approximately $108,000,000 for acquisition purposes, including earn out payments on acquisitions that were closed in previous years, including the EBK transaction, which closed earlier this month, combined with estimated earn out payments on previously closed acquisitions. Speaker 300:16:44For acquisition purposes, we expect to use approximately $67,000,000 in 2024, dollars 36,000,000 in 2025, dollars 12,000,000 in 20.26 and approximately $2,000,000 in 20.27. Since the end of 2019, we have closed 21 acquisition transactions and we have deployed approximately $394,000,000 of capital for acquisition purposes, including earn out payments over that time. We continue to actively repurchase shares in 2023. For the full year, we repurchased approximately 1,300,000 shares in the open market at a cost of approximately $65,000,000 Since the end of 2019, we have purchased a total of approximately 9,400,000 shares and that represents about 17% of shares outstanding compared to the end of 2019. Approximately $342,000,000 of capital has been used towards this repurchase activity and the weighted average share count has been reduced by approximately 9.6% since the end of 2019. Speaker 300:17:59Day sales outstanding at year end was 78 days compared with 74 days a year ago. Bad debt expense for 2023 was 10 basis points of revenue compared with 8 basis points a year ago. Depreciation and amortization for the Q4 was $9,300,000 compared with $8,200,000 last year. Full year depreciation and amortization was approximately $36,000,000 compared with $33,000,000 a year ago. The increase in depreciation and amortization is primarily driven by amortization related acquisition activities. Speaker 300:18:38Capital spending for the 4th quarter was $4,000,000 and it was $23,100,000 for the 12 months of 2023. The higher capital spending in 'twenty 3 was driven by tenant improvements and furniture related to several significant office moves, including our move to the new headquarters facility during the Q4. Capital spending normally runs within a $10,000,000 to $12,000,000 range annually and we expect spending closer to that level in the years ahead. As a reminder, we are a major tenant with a long term lease in our new headquarters building. We are not an owner of the building. Speaker 300:19:17The expense of the new headquarters space is no higher than had we renewed the prior lease and updated the space we previously occupied. The cost is in line with the average cost of the 127 locations we occupy across the U. S. In the 4th quarter, compared with a temporary bridge space we occupied previously, the cost was slightly higher, but there is no material impact in the 4th quarter results. The effective tax rate for the 12 months in 'twenty three was 27.3%, up from 25.5% a year ago. Speaker 300:19:53This rate was slightly lower than the 28% rate we had guided for the full year, primarily due to several favorable items that are unique to 2023 that we were able to recognize in the second half of the year. The increase in the effective tax rate from 22 to 23 was primarily driven by the expiration of provisions associated with the Tax Reform Act of 2017. Looking ahead to 2024, the recurring and essential nature of many of our services provide stability through economic cycles. As we look at employment driven metrics within our benefits and in our payroll businesses, we are seeing continued signs of steady employment within our clients. The tools and systems we have put in place in recent years have enabled us to increase pricing and keep pace with underlying cost pressures and we expect the same dynamic entering 2024. Speaker 300:20:51Should we encounter softness in revenue or client demand, we have a number of variable items in our cost structure and we can take actions to protect margins. The investments we are continuing to make in new business producers, particularly within our benefits and insurance group have gained traction and we are seeing strong new business coupled with strong client retention that is driving revenue growth. Now with an eye on the continuing macroeconomic risks, we are projecting further steady growth in 2024. In addition to a positive outlook for organic growth, we always have an active pipeline of potential future acquisitions. As a practice, however, due to the unpredictable nature of acquisition activity, our annual guidance does not include the future impact of acquisition activity that is not yet closed. Speaker 300:21:44At this early point in 2024, full year guidance is largely driven by organic growth expectations. Beyond organic growth, the acquisition of EBK which closed effective February 1 this year with $8,900,000 of annualized revenue and other relatively small mid year 2023 acquisitions will contribute modestly to revenue growth in 2024. Of course, we update guidance throughout the year to reflect the impact of any significant acquisition activity as it occurs throughout the year. So with this in mind, we are comfortable to provide full year 2024 expectations as follows. We expect total revenue to increase within a range of 7% to 9 percent over the $1,590,000,000 reported in 2023. Speaker 300:22:39On an adjusted basis, we expect 2024 adjusted earnings per share to increase within a range of 12% to 14% over the adjusted earnings per share of $2.41 that we reported in 2023. GAAP reported earnings per share is expected to increase within a range of 13% to 15% over the $2.39 reported in 2023. The effective tax rate for the full year of 2024 is expected to be approximately 28%, which is slightly higher than the 27.3% rate we just reported for 2023. Of course, the effective tax rate can be impacted either higher or lower by a number of unpredictable factors. And fully diluted weighted average share count is expected within a range of $50,000,000 to 50,500,000 shares for the full year of 2024. Speaker 300:23:41So with these comments, I will conclude and I'll turn it back over to Jerry. Speaker 200:23:45Thank you, Ware. Before we move on to Q and A, I'd like to provide a brief update on our M and A results for the year. Interest in M and A within our industry remains high and CEVA's strong performance and success with integrating a large number of firms of varying sizes and profiles continues to position us as an acquirer of choice. We began 2023 with a healthy pipeline of M and A opportunities, and we are pleased that we were able to complete 3 acquisitions and 2 tuck in transactions, totaling just over $67,000,000 in annualized revenue. These transactions include Somerset CPAs and Advisor, a highly regarded accounting and tax firm headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana. Speaker 200:24:28Somerset was a platform acquisition for us and that it allowed us to enter an attractive and growing market with size and scale. We've been pleased with the results from Somerset so far and are likewise pleased with our progress on integration. We also acquired Pivot Point Security in 2023, an advisory firm specializing in cyber and information security, headquartered in Hamilton, New Jersey. We have been pursuing an acquisition to broaden our cybersecurity services and expertise for some time given the growth in demand for these kinds of services. We are pleased how this group has already complemented our existing risk advisory services practice. Speaker 200:25:09Both Somerset and Pivot Point are excellent examples of how we acquire firms that bring strategic value to CBIZ and strengthen the breadth and depth of our services while adding valued expertise and capacity. And just last week, we announced the acquisition of Erickson, Brown and Closter, a CPA firm located in Colorado Springs, Colorado that will expand our reach across the state of Colorado and complement our growing Denver based practice. EBK provides a broad range of accounting and tax services focused on small middle market businesses. We're happy to welcome the EBK team to team CBIZ. With that, we'll move on to Q and A. Operator00:26:20Our first question today comes from Chris Moore from CJS Securities. Please go ahead with your question. Speaker 400:26:26Hey, good morning, guys. Congrats on another great year. Maybe I'll just start where Jerry left off on M and A. Just curious in terms of the pipeline, are there many $50,000,000 plus acquisitions that are in that pipeline at this point in time? Speaker 200:26:44Yes, Chris. We don't comment as you know on the exact pipeline size and transactions, size of the companies and the number in there. But what I would say is we remain pleased with the amount of revenue certainly in aggregate within that pipeline and the number of go, we were pleased with what we were able to accomplish last year and pretty pleased with what we're seeing so far in the pipeline. Speaker 400:27:14Got it. I appreciate that. Maybe we'll just talk little bit about visibility. I mean given the backdrop this time last year, there were more rate increases were likely versus today. At some point in time, we'll probably get some rate cuts. Speaker 400:27:29Can you talk a little bit about visibility today versus this time last year? Speaker 200:27:34Yes. So Chris, the nature of the business is obviously a large percent of it essential recurring services. So kind of through the busy season, we remain very pleased with the business of what we're seeing and what we expect to do through that period of time. As we sit here today, we don't obviously have as much visibility into the back half of the year, but we look at the factors. Like you said. Speaker 200:27:58We think interest rates will stabilize. We see cautious optimism among our clients. So we sit here today, I would say, equally optimistic and maybe even slightly more optimistic than we were sitting here at this time last year. The one uncertainty being obviously it's an election year, and you never know how that's going to shape consumer confidence. Speaker 400:28:21Got it. Helpful. I was going to ask that as well. Maybe just one more for me. You talked about pricing during in Financial Services during fiscal 'twenty three was above wage increases. Speaker 400:28:33Is pricing now back to more normal 2% to 3% for the year for Financial Services or just anything you can say in terms of what pricing looks like there? Speaker 200:28:47Yes, I'll comment on 2 things. First of all, Chris, as you know, we've been able to more than offset any wage increases with pricing. We're seeing some easing in the labor pool, which are bringing wage increases down a little bit. You've seen that kind of across the board. So obviously, that's the labor part of it. Speaker 200:29:06As far as prices are concerned, yet to be seen. We still expect to be able to go out with favorable pricing this year. And as you know, we've built considerable processes, systems reporting infrastructure around our ability to methodically analyze our pricing within an office, within a client by service line. So we still think that there's considerable opportunity on the pricing side. Operator00:29:38Our next question comes from Andrew Nicholas from William Blair. Please go ahead with your question. Speaker 500:29:44Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to first follow-up on that last question on pricing. Jerry said considerable opportunity. I imagine that that's specific to 24, but maybe if you could talk about kind of the medium term pricing opportunity. Speaker 500:30:02I know in prior years you've had some benefit from the investments on that side and maybe what you've described as some catch up pricing. I was under the impression that that's largely Speaker 200:30:17out of the equation at Speaker 500:30:18this point. So if you could kind of respond to that and talk about maybe medium term price expectations that Speaker 400:30:23would be helpful. Speaker 200:30:24Yes Andrew, when I say considerable opportunity, it never stops, right? So the pricing disciplines that we have, the systems, the processes, the tools, they're not fully embedded yet in Marks Paneth. Obviously, that's a more recent acquisition or Somerset even more recent. So we have opportunity there. We also go through our client profiles and identify clients that may not fit the profile of a client that we can serve in a profitable way, call those clients, bring a different profile of client into the fold and being pursue pricing with those clients as well. Speaker 200:31:01So I think this is an ongoing not I think, I know this will be an ongoing focus of CBIZ and our ability to continue to bring pricing. So I think mid term looks is positive. Speaker 500:31:16Got it. That's helpful. And then, I wanted to ask a question. I think you touched on easing labor markets. Can you kind of address capacity constraints at CBIZ broadly? Speaker 500:31:30Do you feel like you're properly staffed for what sounds like pretty uniformly strong demand from your clients? And maybe how easy is it to find talent in the current environment? Speaker 200:31:45Yes, let me start here, Andrew. Labor has first the 25 years I've been in this industry, labor has always been tough to find, right? Always challenging to find qualified, experienced labor. With that said, you've seen some of the layoffs at the Big 4. That's obviously easing the labor demands in the labor pool. Speaker 200:32:09We've seen some of that among some of the larger firms as well, other larger firms. So right now, and by the way, our attrition rate, our retention rate is even higher today. I'm sorry, our retention rates are even higher today or more favorable today than they were pre COVID. So we're able to retain people at a more favorable rate. We think the labor pool on the other side is easing a little bit, which allows us to attract and recruit a little bit more favorably. Speaker 200:32:36So all of those things are positive for us. And yes, you're correct, we feel confident today that we have we're adequately staffed be able to take advantage of the demand that we have for the services. Speaker 500:32:50Great. And then maybe if I could ask one last one on the M and A environment. It sounds like you're pretty constructive on the pipeline and what makes it up. Can you talk a little bit about pricing there, where multiples have trended and there's another private equity sponsor investment in this space here recently. Just wondering if you could maybe respond to the potential impact from that on your business? Speaker 500:33:18Thank you. Speaker 200:33:19Yes, Andrew, great question. Here's what I would say, below the large platforms in your the transaction that was recently announced fits into that category, very large firm, large platform acquisition. I would say below the large platforms, pricing hasn't moved considerably over the past couple of years. I mean, it might have ticked up a quarter, 25 bps or 50 bps. Certainly, the larger platform transactions are trading at considerably higher multiples, and it's really a scarcity factor. Speaker 200:33:54So as you would expect, they're trading higher. But in the types of transactions that we typically pursue, we haven't seen material pricing differences. Operator00:34:15Our next question comes from Marc Riddick from Sidoti. Please go ahead with your question. So I Speaker 200:34:24wonder if you could share Speaker 600:34:25a little bit of your views as to some of the if there's much in the way of differentiation of client behavior and demand drivers? And in particular, whether that's an industry vertical type thing or a regional mix. And also I was Speaker 200:34:41wondering if you could talk Speaker 600:34:41a little bit about the thoughts around sort of the project base work. I mean, you touched on it in prepared remarks around some of the some of the advisory, but maybe sort of give a little bit of color as to sort of maybe what folks are willing to move forward on or maybe if you are seeing any changes that sort of signal toward green shoots and the like? Speaker 200:35:04Yes. I'll take the first part of it and I'll turn to Ware for the second part of it. But as far as clients are concerned, client sentiments are concerned, as you know, one of the very attractive attributes of CBIZ is that we're not overly concentrated in any particular industry or any particular geography. So we are seeing we serve largely a kind of a middle market client, although we have clients on either side of that, of course. That middle market client tends to be optimistic by nature, tends to be resilient. Speaker 200:35:31And we heard that in our most recent client sentiment survey is that I characterize it as cautiously optimistic. I think there as interest rates start to normalize, that's a positive. And that client base, so long as they understand kind of what the landscape looks like, they tend to then invest forward and invest in growing their businesses. So all of that's positive, including for the outlook for the more project oriented work we do. If we have a more optimistic proactive client base there, they tend to turn to us to help them evaluate the types of projects that they're considering. Speaker 200:36:15Ware, do you want to talk a little bit more about? Speaker 300:36:16Yes. The only other thing about the advisory business I would remind you of is a good share of that tends to be recurring and repetitive. For example, the internal audit co source and Sucks consulting tends to be more long term year after year, as does the valuation work or at least pieces and parts of the valuation work are repeated annually. On some of the project work that's focused on private equity or venture capital, IPO readiness and things like that, we see a bit of ebb and flow, but we've had a very strong year collectively in that group and we've seen a bit of a rebound in those two pockets that I just mentioned. So we look at 2024 with some optimism at this point. Speaker 500:37:05Great. And then the last one Speaker 600:37:07for me, I was sort of curious as to if there are any timing discrepancies around tax filing that we should be thinking about this year. I know we had this last year. Well, it seems like we've kind of had a little bit of it almost every year, right? Over the last 4 or 5 years, I was Operator00:37:22sort of curious as to whether Speaker 600:37:23or not there was any particular call out we should be thinking about or this is more traditional as far as the timing of that? Speaker 300:37:30As far as we know, this should tee up as a relatively normal year for us. Keep an eye on all the rains and the floods on the West Coast, we don't know. But just remember that if these things do occur, it really represents a shift seasonally, not a reduction in the business. Operator00:37:59And ladies and gentlemen, at Speaker 200:38:07As we wrap up today, I just want to thank our shareholders and analysts as we always do for joining the call and for your continued support in management and in the company. I also want to take this opportunity to recognize our team as many of you listen in on the calls on a regular basis. I started the call today by reporting on our very strong performance and results for the prior year of 2023. It was a year that included a number of important milestones and achievements. Among them and one that I'm particularly proud of is setting a new record for workplace awards. Speaker 200:38:40In 2023, CBIZ was recognized with over 100 workplace awards, most of which are based on anonymous feedback directly from our team members. Embedded in our company's vision statement is a commitment to strive to be our team's employer of choice. And these awards are a testament to that commitment, the commitment of each of our team members to support each other and to the exceptional work that we do for our clients and to the strength of our culture. To our team, I'm grateful for your support, proud of all that we've accomplished together and even more excited for a brighter future. Thank you and enjoy your day.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallCBIZ Q4 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Annual report(10-K) CBIZ Earnings HeadlinesCBIZ Releases Strategic Analysis on President Trump's First 100 Days and Implications for the Middle MarketMay 2 at 9:25 AM | tmcnet.comCBIZ Releases Strategic Analysis on President Trump’s First 100 Days and Implications for the Middle MarketApril 30, 2025 | finance.yahoo.comElon Reveals Why There Soon Won’t Be Any Money For Social SecurityElon Musk's Near-Death Experience Sparks Dire Warning for Americans After cheating death twice—once in a terrifying supercar crash with billionaire Peter Thiel, then from a deadly strain of malaria—Elon Musk emerged with a stark warning for Americans about looming financial dangers. 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It operates through Financial Services, Benefits and Insurance Services, and National Practices segments. The Financial Services segment offers accounting and tax, financial advisory, valuation, risk and advisory, and government healthcare consulting services. The Benefits and Insurance Services provides employee benefits consulting, payroll/human capital management, property and casualty insurance, and retirement and investment services. The National Practices segment offers information technology managed networking and hardware, and health care consulting services. The company primarily serves small and medium-sized businesses, as well as individuals, governmental entities, and not-for-profit enterprises. 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There are 7 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the CBIZ 4th Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen only mode. Please also note today's event is being recorded. And at this time, I would like to turn the floor over to Lori Novickis, Director of Corporate Relations. Ma'am, you may begin. Speaker 100:00:44Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q4 full year 2023 CBIZ results conference call. In connection with this call, today's press release and investor presentation have been posted to the Investor Relations page of our website, cbiz.com. As a reminder, this call is being webcast and a link to a live webcast can be found on our website. An archived replay and transcript will also be made available following the call. Before we begin, we would like to remind you that during the call, management may discuss certain non GAAP financial measures. Speaker 100:01:23Reconciliations of these measures can be found in the financial tables of today's press release and investor presentation. Today's call may also include forward looking statements regarding our business, financial condition, results of operations, cash flows, strategies and prospects. Forward looking statements represent only estimates on the date of this call and are not intended to give any assurance of future results. Because forward looking statements relate to matters that have not yet occurred, these statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause future results to differ materially and CBIZ assumes no obligation to update these statements. Speaker 100:02:09A more detailed description of such factors can be found in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Joining us for today's call are Jerry Grisko, President and Chief Executive Officer and Ware Grove, Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Jerry. Speaker 200:02:27Thank you, Lori, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to share our Q4 and full year results for 2023 and our outlook for the year ahead. Last year at this time, we reported on record performance and results in 2022. We are pleased that this momentum continued in 2023 and that despite uncertainty at the start of the year about a potentially challenging business climate ahead, we successfully continued our trend in 2023 of achieving growth across every major service line of our business. Over the past year, CBIZ posted strong growth, achieved new milestones, and demonstrated the resilience of our business model in an uncertain environment. Speaker 200:03:09Most notably, for the full year, total revenue was up 12.7%, organic revenue grew by 7.4%, earnings per share was up by 18.9%, adjusted earnings per share was up by 13.1% and our stock price increased 33.6%. The fundamental attributes that define our model, including a blend of essential recurring services, combined with more discretionary project based services, a diverse client base that spans companies of all sizes, and a broad and growing geographic footprint continue to drive our success. As we head into 2024, we expect the economic climate to remain favorable for the types of services that we provide to our clients. Now turning to the performance of our business divisions in 2023. Our Financial Services division demonstrated impressive growth across every major service line, including our accounting and tax, advisory and government healthcare consulting businesses. Speaker 200:04:11Our accounting and tax services remained in high demand, which has allowed us to continue to achieve price increases in excess of our wage increases. Our work to support clients in securing employee retention tax credit also helped to bolster our results. Our advisory services also continue to experience robust growth as strong client demand translated into steady production for our private equity advisory business, our risk and advisory, valuation and forensic consulting groups. While demand for our technical accounting services group, a group that specializes in assisting companies in preparing to go public, reflected a somewhat muted market for IPOs in 2023, we are seeing signs of improvement for these services in the coming year. Finally, our government healthcare consulting business finished the year strong in terms of both kicking off project work and securing new business. Speaker 200:05:04We reported on our last earnings call that this part of the business experienced some softness due to a number of large contracts being delayed. The new work that we are seeing in this space more than made up for these timing changes. I will remind you that project delays are common when serving certain types of public sector clients and the business continues to navigate these changes well while maintaining strong performance. Now turning to our Benefits and Insurance division, where we built on our momentum coming into the year to achieve strong growth and performance across every major service line. While the key drivers for growth varied slightly within the 4 major service lines, all benefited from high client retention rates, new sales and continued improvements in pricing. Speaker 200:05:48For our employee benefits business, growth came from higher starting valuations, new business, increased contingents and improved client retention rates. Our producer count was also up along with another key metric we monitor, average production per producer. The strong activity from our producers is evident in our full year results and should provide some strong momentum going into 2024. Moving to our Property and Casualty business, we experienced growth in both the program and commercial sides of the business. Higher starting valuations, new production, strong client retention and trend also bolstered our favorable results. Speaker 200:06:28The Retirement and Investment Solutions business saw growth through increased demand for our actuarial project work. We're also able to increase our producer pool within this Finally, our payroll business had another strong year performance driven primarily by demand for our upmarket payroll platform, which also included high client retention rates for this service. We are extremely pleased with the performance of the overall business throughout 2023. As we look ahead to 2024, we remain confident in our ability to continue to perform well and to capitalize on this momentum. Based on our strong financial performance over the past 3 years, the high demand for our services, our ability to retain clients, the investments to accelerate growth that we've made in the business and our access to capital, we will once again be providing financial guidance for the year. Speaker 200:07:20With this, I will turn it over to Ware Grove, our Chief Financial Officer, to provide more specific details on our financial performance for the Q4 and the full year 2023 and our thoughts on guidance for 2024. Speaker 300:07:32Ware? Thank you, Jerry, and good morning, everyone. Let me take a few minutes to talk about key highlights of the 4th quarter and year to date numbers we released this morning. Our business continues to be strong in every major service line within both financial services and within benefits and insurance. We are pleased that results in the 4th quarter and the full year are in line with our expectations. Speaker 300:07:58After encountering some weakness in the first half of twenty twenty three, both the government healthcare consulting and the California core accounting and tax business recorded strong 4th quarter and second half results. The first half twenty twenty three contract delays that we encountered within government healthcare consulting have resolved and the IRS tax filing delays in California moved a large portion of this recurring business from first half into second half of twenty twenty three. With the acquisition of Somerset in February of 2023, generating approximately $55,000,000 of annual core tax and accounting services revenue, at the end of the third quarter, we guided that we expected the higher portion of core accounting business within our business mix this year would amplify the seasonal nature of our consolidated results in the 4th quarter. Coupled with the impact of higher interest expense in the Q4 this year compared with last year, the loss recorded in the Q4 this year was higher than last year. Total revenue in the 4th quarter increased by $32,500,000 up 11% over 4th quarter a year ago. Speaker 300:09:08The 4th quarter same unit revenue was up $19,900,000 or up by 6.8% with acquisitions contributing $12,600,000 or 4.2 percent to growth compared with last year. For the full year, total revenue grew by $179,200,000 or up by 12.7% compared with 2022. Same unit revenue for the 12 months grew by $104,000,000 or up by 7.4%, with acquisitions contributing $75,200,000 or 5.3 percent of revenue growth for the 12 months this year compared with last year. Within Financial Services for the Q4, total revenue was up by 13%. Same unit revenue for the Q4 was up by 7.1%. Speaker 300:10:00For the 12 months, total revenue within Financial Services grew by 14.9% and same unit revenue for the 12 months was up by 7.6%. We experienced strong revenue growth across all lines of services, including core tax and accounting, advisory services and government healthcare consulting services for both the 4th quarter and for the 12 months in 'twenty three compared to 'twenty two. Within Benefits and Insurance, total revenue in the 4th quarter of 'twenty three grew by 5.7 percent and same unit revenue grew by 4.8%. For the full year, total revenue grew by 6.9% with same unit revenue growing by 6.5%. Every major line of service within our Benefits and Insurance group recorded revenue growth for both the Q4 and for the 12 months. Speaker 300:10:52We continue to see strong client retention and new client production. The investments we have made in recent years to hire and increase the number of new business producers continue to gain traction. We remain committed to further enhancing growth capabilities within the Benefits and Insurance Group and we will continue to make investments in hiring and in developing additional producers in 2024. On February 1, 'twenty three, we acquired Indianapolis based Somerset CPAs and Advisors with estimated annual revenue of approximately $55,000,000 There are transaction closing costs plus one time integration related expenses associated with this transaction. In a similar manner to reporting New York based Marks Paneth acquisition costs in 2022, we are reporting an adjustment to eliminate Somerset acquisition related costs from GAAP reported results report adjusted results this year. Speaker 300:11:51We are extremely pleased to have both the Somerset team on board this year and the Marc Spanniff team, now in its 2nd year and both are performing in line with our expectations. In addition to these acquisition related expenses, this year we reported a gain of $1,500,000 related to sale of technology asset in our Financial Services practice group in the 3rd quarter and a gain of $1,400,000 resulting from the receipt of contingent payments in the 4th quarter related to the last year sale of a book of business within Benefits and Insurance. Last year, we recorded a gain of $2,400,000 related to this transaction. These gains were recorded in other income and represented approximately $0.02 per share for the Q4 of 'twenty 3 and $0.04 per share in 'twenty 2. With a view towards presenting meaningful comparable information, eliminating the impact of these gains and eliminating the acquisition related expenses, adjusted earnings per share this year is $2.41 up 13.1 percent compared with adjusted earnings per share of $2.13 last year. Speaker 300:13:06Considering these same adjustments, adjusted EBITDA, which serves to eliminate the impact of both tax and interest costs, was $223,800,000 for the 12 months this year, up 17.7% over adjusted EBITDA of $190,100,000 last year. A table reconciling reported GAAP numbers to these adjusted earnings per share and adjusted EBITDA numbers that I'm referencing is included in the earnings release issued this morning. So you can review the detail of the items included to arrive at adjusted numbers. We have previously talked about the level of healthcare and benefits, travel and entertainment expenses and marketing expenses that are normalizing the higher levels post pandemic. As we continue to restore and expand outreach to clients and prospects by design, travel and entertainment expenses are trending higher and we've also restarted several media campaigns in our marketing programs this year. Speaker 300:14:07Some of you may recall seeing the CBIZ TV spots positioned on CNBC, PGA Golf events and in other spots last fall. For 2023, collectively these expenses represented a 20 basis point headwind to margin on pre tax income compared with the prior year. We continue to project that these expenses will settle in at approximately 100 basis points lower than pre pandemic levels, but for a period of time, the year over year comparison has presented a headwind. As always, details of the impact of accounting for gains and losses in our non qualified deferred compensation plan are outlined in the release. Because we are comparing a period in 2022 with capital market losses compared with capital markets gains in this year, there is a significant impact to the GAAP reported earnings as you look at both gross margin and operating income, and you can find this information noted in our release. Speaker 300:15:07As a reminder, pre tax income margin is not impacted by this accounting factor. We will continue to say that over time, we expect to achieve a 20 basis points to 50 basis points annual increase in pre tax margin. In any given year, margin improvement may be either higher or lower for a number of reasons, including the impact of the expense level headwinds in 'twenty three that I mentioned earlier. As you look back over time, we are very pleased that our performance has been near the higher end of that range. Now turning to cash flow items and balance sheet. Speaker 300:15:42At December 31, 'twenty three, the balance outstanding on the $600,000,000 unsecured credit facility was approximately $312,000,000 with about $272,000,000 of unused capacity. Facility. This provides plenty of capacity continue to both to continue both strategic acquisitions and provides the flexibility to continue with share repurchases. In 2023, including the Somerset acquisition, we completed a total of 5 acquisitions. We used approximately $108,000,000 for acquisition purposes, including earn out payments on acquisitions that were closed in previous years, including the EBK transaction, which closed earlier this month, combined with estimated earn out payments on previously closed acquisitions. Speaker 300:16:44For acquisition purposes, we expect to use approximately $67,000,000 in 2024, dollars 36,000,000 in 2025, dollars 12,000,000 in 20.26 and approximately $2,000,000 in 20.27. Since the end of 2019, we have closed 21 acquisition transactions and we have deployed approximately $394,000,000 of capital for acquisition purposes, including earn out payments over that time. We continue to actively repurchase shares in 2023. For the full year, we repurchased approximately 1,300,000 shares in the open market at a cost of approximately $65,000,000 Since the end of 2019, we have purchased a total of approximately 9,400,000 shares and that represents about 17% of shares outstanding compared to the end of 2019. Approximately $342,000,000 of capital has been used towards this repurchase activity and the weighted average share count has been reduced by approximately 9.6% since the end of 2019. Speaker 300:17:59Day sales outstanding at year end was 78 days compared with 74 days a year ago. Bad debt expense for 2023 was 10 basis points of revenue compared with 8 basis points a year ago. Depreciation and amortization for the Q4 was $9,300,000 compared with $8,200,000 last year. Full year depreciation and amortization was approximately $36,000,000 compared with $33,000,000 a year ago. The increase in depreciation and amortization is primarily driven by amortization related acquisition activities. Speaker 300:18:38Capital spending for the 4th quarter was $4,000,000 and it was $23,100,000 for the 12 months of 2023. The higher capital spending in 'twenty 3 was driven by tenant improvements and furniture related to several significant office moves, including our move to the new headquarters facility during the Q4. Capital spending normally runs within a $10,000,000 to $12,000,000 range annually and we expect spending closer to that level in the years ahead. As a reminder, we are a major tenant with a long term lease in our new headquarters building. We are not an owner of the building. Speaker 300:19:17The expense of the new headquarters space is no higher than had we renewed the prior lease and updated the space we previously occupied. The cost is in line with the average cost of the 127 locations we occupy across the U. S. In the 4th quarter, compared with a temporary bridge space we occupied previously, the cost was slightly higher, but there is no material impact in the 4th quarter results. The effective tax rate for the 12 months in 'twenty three was 27.3%, up from 25.5% a year ago. Speaker 300:19:53This rate was slightly lower than the 28% rate we had guided for the full year, primarily due to several favorable items that are unique to 2023 that we were able to recognize in the second half of the year. The increase in the effective tax rate from 22 to 23 was primarily driven by the expiration of provisions associated with the Tax Reform Act of 2017. Looking ahead to 2024, the recurring and essential nature of many of our services provide stability through economic cycles. As we look at employment driven metrics within our benefits and in our payroll businesses, we are seeing continued signs of steady employment within our clients. The tools and systems we have put in place in recent years have enabled us to increase pricing and keep pace with underlying cost pressures and we expect the same dynamic entering 2024. Speaker 300:20:51Should we encounter softness in revenue or client demand, we have a number of variable items in our cost structure and we can take actions to protect margins. The investments we are continuing to make in new business producers, particularly within our benefits and insurance group have gained traction and we are seeing strong new business coupled with strong client retention that is driving revenue growth. Now with an eye on the continuing macroeconomic risks, we are projecting further steady growth in 2024. In addition to a positive outlook for organic growth, we always have an active pipeline of potential future acquisitions. As a practice, however, due to the unpredictable nature of acquisition activity, our annual guidance does not include the future impact of acquisition activity that is not yet closed. Speaker 300:21:44At this early point in 2024, full year guidance is largely driven by organic growth expectations. Beyond organic growth, the acquisition of EBK which closed effective February 1 this year with $8,900,000 of annualized revenue and other relatively small mid year 2023 acquisitions will contribute modestly to revenue growth in 2024. Of course, we update guidance throughout the year to reflect the impact of any significant acquisition activity as it occurs throughout the year. So with this in mind, we are comfortable to provide full year 2024 expectations as follows. We expect total revenue to increase within a range of 7% to 9 percent over the $1,590,000,000 reported in 2023. Speaker 300:22:39On an adjusted basis, we expect 2024 adjusted earnings per share to increase within a range of 12% to 14% over the adjusted earnings per share of $2.41 that we reported in 2023. GAAP reported earnings per share is expected to increase within a range of 13% to 15% over the $2.39 reported in 2023. The effective tax rate for the full year of 2024 is expected to be approximately 28%, which is slightly higher than the 27.3% rate we just reported for 2023. Of course, the effective tax rate can be impacted either higher or lower by a number of unpredictable factors. And fully diluted weighted average share count is expected within a range of $50,000,000 to 50,500,000 shares for the full year of 2024. Speaker 300:23:41So with these comments, I will conclude and I'll turn it back over to Jerry. Speaker 200:23:45Thank you, Ware. Before we move on to Q and A, I'd like to provide a brief update on our M and A results for the year. Interest in M and A within our industry remains high and CEVA's strong performance and success with integrating a large number of firms of varying sizes and profiles continues to position us as an acquirer of choice. We began 2023 with a healthy pipeline of M and A opportunities, and we are pleased that we were able to complete 3 acquisitions and 2 tuck in transactions, totaling just over $67,000,000 in annualized revenue. These transactions include Somerset CPAs and Advisor, a highly regarded accounting and tax firm headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana. Speaker 200:24:28Somerset was a platform acquisition for us and that it allowed us to enter an attractive and growing market with size and scale. We've been pleased with the results from Somerset so far and are likewise pleased with our progress on integration. We also acquired Pivot Point Security in 2023, an advisory firm specializing in cyber and information security, headquartered in Hamilton, New Jersey. We have been pursuing an acquisition to broaden our cybersecurity services and expertise for some time given the growth in demand for these kinds of services. We are pleased how this group has already complemented our existing risk advisory services practice. Speaker 200:25:09Both Somerset and Pivot Point are excellent examples of how we acquire firms that bring strategic value to CBIZ and strengthen the breadth and depth of our services while adding valued expertise and capacity. And just last week, we announced the acquisition of Erickson, Brown and Closter, a CPA firm located in Colorado Springs, Colorado that will expand our reach across the state of Colorado and complement our growing Denver based practice. EBK provides a broad range of accounting and tax services focused on small middle market businesses. We're happy to welcome the EBK team to team CBIZ. With that, we'll move on to Q and A. Operator00:26:20Our first question today comes from Chris Moore from CJS Securities. Please go ahead with your question. Speaker 400:26:26Hey, good morning, guys. Congrats on another great year. Maybe I'll just start where Jerry left off on M and A. Just curious in terms of the pipeline, are there many $50,000,000 plus acquisitions that are in that pipeline at this point in time? Speaker 200:26:44Yes, Chris. We don't comment as you know on the exact pipeline size and transactions, size of the companies and the number in there. But what I would say is we remain pleased with the amount of revenue certainly in aggregate within that pipeline and the number of go, we were pleased with what we were able to accomplish last year and pretty pleased with what we're seeing so far in the pipeline. Speaker 400:27:14Got it. I appreciate that. Maybe we'll just talk little bit about visibility. I mean given the backdrop this time last year, there were more rate increases were likely versus today. At some point in time, we'll probably get some rate cuts. Speaker 400:27:29Can you talk a little bit about visibility today versus this time last year? Speaker 200:27:34Yes. So Chris, the nature of the business is obviously a large percent of it essential recurring services. So kind of through the busy season, we remain very pleased with the business of what we're seeing and what we expect to do through that period of time. As we sit here today, we don't obviously have as much visibility into the back half of the year, but we look at the factors. Like you said. Speaker 200:27:58We think interest rates will stabilize. We see cautious optimism among our clients. So we sit here today, I would say, equally optimistic and maybe even slightly more optimistic than we were sitting here at this time last year. The one uncertainty being obviously it's an election year, and you never know how that's going to shape consumer confidence. Speaker 400:28:21Got it. Helpful. I was going to ask that as well. Maybe just one more for me. You talked about pricing during in Financial Services during fiscal 'twenty three was above wage increases. Speaker 400:28:33Is pricing now back to more normal 2% to 3% for the year for Financial Services or just anything you can say in terms of what pricing looks like there? Speaker 200:28:47Yes, I'll comment on 2 things. First of all, Chris, as you know, we've been able to more than offset any wage increases with pricing. We're seeing some easing in the labor pool, which are bringing wage increases down a little bit. You've seen that kind of across the board. So obviously, that's the labor part of it. Speaker 200:29:06As far as prices are concerned, yet to be seen. We still expect to be able to go out with favorable pricing this year. And as you know, we've built considerable processes, systems reporting infrastructure around our ability to methodically analyze our pricing within an office, within a client by service line. So we still think that there's considerable opportunity on the pricing side. Operator00:29:38Our next question comes from Andrew Nicholas from William Blair. Please go ahead with your question. Speaker 500:29:44Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to first follow-up on that last question on pricing. Jerry said considerable opportunity. I imagine that that's specific to 24, but maybe if you could talk about kind of the medium term pricing opportunity. Speaker 500:30:02I know in prior years you've had some benefit from the investments on that side and maybe what you've described as some catch up pricing. I was under the impression that that's largely Speaker 200:30:17out of the equation at Speaker 500:30:18this point. So if you could kind of respond to that and talk about maybe medium term price expectations that Speaker 400:30:23would be helpful. Speaker 200:30:24Yes Andrew, when I say considerable opportunity, it never stops, right? So the pricing disciplines that we have, the systems, the processes, the tools, they're not fully embedded yet in Marks Paneth. Obviously, that's a more recent acquisition or Somerset even more recent. So we have opportunity there. We also go through our client profiles and identify clients that may not fit the profile of a client that we can serve in a profitable way, call those clients, bring a different profile of client into the fold and being pursue pricing with those clients as well. Speaker 200:31:01So I think this is an ongoing not I think, I know this will be an ongoing focus of CBIZ and our ability to continue to bring pricing. So I think mid term looks is positive. Speaker 500:31:16Got it. That's helpful. And then, I wanted to ask a question. I think you touched on easing labor markets. Can you kind of address capacity constraints at CBIZ broadly? Speaker 500:31:30Do you feel like you're properly staffed for what sounds like pretty uniformly strong demand from your clients? And maybe how easy is it to find talent in the current environment? Speaker 200:31:45Yes, let me start here, Andrew. Labor has first the 25 years I've been in this industry, labor has always been tough to find, right? Always challenging to find qualified, experienced labor. With that said, you've seen some of the layoffs at the Big 4. That's obviously easing the labor demands in the labor pool. Speaker 200:32:09We've seen some of that among some of the larger firms as well, other larger firms. So right now, and by the way, our attrition rate, our retention rate is even higher today. I'm sorry, our retention rates are even higher today or more favorable today than they were pre COVID. So we're able to retain people at a more favorable rate. We think the labor pool on the other side is easing a little bit, which allows us to attract and recruit a little bit more favorably. Speaker 200:32:36So all of those things are positive for us. And yes, you're correct, we feel confident today that we have we're adequately staffed be able to take advantage of the demand that we have for the services. Speaker 500:32:50Great. And then maybe if I could ask one last one on the M and A environment. It sounds like you're pretty constructive on the pipeline and what makes it up. Can you talk a little bit about pricing there, where multiples have trended and there's another private equity sponsor investment in this space here recently. Just wondering if you could maybe respond to the potential impact from that on your business? Speaker 500:33:18Thank you. Speaker 200:33:19Yes, Andrew, great question. Here's what I would say, below the large platforms in your the transaction that was recently announced fits into that category, very large firm, large platform acquisition. I would say below the large platforms, pricing hasn't moved considerably over the past couple of years. I mean, it might have ticked up a quarter, 25 bps or 50 bps. Certainly, the larger platform transactions are trading at considerably higher multiples, and it's really a scarcity factor. Speaker 200:33:54So as you would expect, they're trading higher. But in the types of transactions that we typically pursue, we haven't seen material pricing differences. Operator00:34:15Our next question comes from Marc Riddick from Sidoti. Please go ahead with your question. So I Speaker 200:34:24wonder if you could share Speaker 600:34:25a little bit of your views as to some of the if there's much in the way of differentiation of client behavior and demand drivers? And in particular, whether that's an industry vertical type thing or a regional mix. And also I was Speaker 200:34:41wondering if you could talk Speaker 600:34:41a little bit about the thoughts around sort of the project base work. I mean, you touched on it in prepared remarks around some of the some of the advisory, but maybe sort of give a little bit of color as to sort of maybe what folks are willing to move forward on or maybe if you are seeing any changes that sort of signal toward green shoots and the like? Speaker 200:35:04Yes. I'll take the first part of it and I'll turn to Ware for the second part of it. But as far as clients are concerned, client sentiments are concerned, as you know, one of the very attractive attributes of CBIZ is that we're not overly concentrated in any particular industry or any particular geography. So we are seeing we serve largely a kind of a middle market client, although we have clients on either side of that, of course. That middle market client tends to be optimistic by nature, tends to be resilient. Speaker 200:35:31And we heard that in our most recent client sentiment survey is that I characterize it as cautiously optimistic. I think there as interest rates start to normalize, that's a positive. And that client base, so long as they understand kind of what the landscape looks like, they tend to then invest forward and invest in growing their businesses. So all of that's positive, including for the outlook for the more project oriented work we do. If we have a more optimistic proactive client base there, they tend to turn to us to help them evaluate the types of projects that they're considering. Speaker 200:36:15Ware, do you want to talk a little bit more about? Speaker 300:36:16Yes. The only other thing about the advisory business I would remind you of is a good share of that tends to be recurring and repetitive. For example, the internal audit co source and Sucks consulting tends to be more long term year after year, as does the valuation work or at least pieces and parts of the valuation work are repeated annually. On some of the project work that's focused on private equity or venture capital, IPO readiness and things like that, we see a bit of ebb and flow, but we've had a very strong year collectively in that group and we've seen a bit of a rebound in those two pockets that I just mentioned. So we look at 2024 with some optimism at this point. Speaker 500:37:05Great. And then the last one Speaker 600:37:07for me, I was sort of curious as to if there are any timing discrepancies around tax filing that we should be thinking about this year. I know we had this last year. Well, it seems like we've kind of had a little bit of it almost every year, right? Over the last 4 or 5 years, I was Operator00:37:22sort of curious as to whether Speaker 600:37:23or not there was any particular call out we should be thinking about or this is more traditional as far as the timing of that? Speaker 300:37:30As far as we know, this should tee up as a relatively normal year for us. Keep an eye on all the rains and the floods on the West Coast, we don't know. But just remember that if these things do occur, it really represents a shift seasonally, not a reduction in the business. Operator00:37:59And ladies and gentlemen, at Speaker 200:38:07As we wrap up today, I just want to thank our shareholders and analysts as we always do for joining the call and for your continued support in management and in the company. I also want to take this opportunity to recognize our team as many of you listen in on the calls on a regular basis. I started the call today by reporting on our very strong performance and results for the prior year of 2023. It was a year that included a number of important milestones and achievements. Among them and one that I'm particularly proud of is setting a new record for workplace awards. Speaker 200:38:40In 2023, CBIZ was recognized with over 100 workplace awards, most of which are based on anonymous feedback directly from our team members. Embedded in our company's vision statement is a commitment to strive to be our team's employer of choice. And these awards are a testament to that commitment, the commitment of each of our team members to support each other and to the exceptional work that we do for our clients and to the strength of our culture. To our team, I'm grateful for your support, proud of all that we've accomplished together and even more excited for a brighter future. Thank you and enjoy your day.Read morePowered by