NASDAQ:IEP Icahn Enterprises Q4 2023 Earnings Report $9.27 +0.02 (+0.22%) Closing price 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$9.26 -0.01 (-0.10%) As of 07:55 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. ProfileEarnings History Icahn Enterprises EPS ResultsActual EPS-$0.33Consensus EPS $0.21Beat/MissMissed by -$0.54One Year Ago EPSN/AIcahn Enterprises Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$2.68 billionExpected Revenue$2.73 billionBeat/MissMissed by -$54.00 millionYoY Revenue GrowthN/AIcahn Enterprises Announcement DetailsQuarterQ4 2023Date2/28/2024TimeN/AConference Call DateWednesday, February 28, 2024Conference Call Time10:00AM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Annual Report (10-K)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by Icahn Enterprises Q4 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrFebruary 28, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.Key Takeaways Q4 2023 financial results: Net loss improved to $139 million (up $116 million YoY) with adjusted EBITDA of $9 million, a $84 million increase over Q4 2022. CVI and Automotive performance: CVI benefited from strong crack spreads and declared a $0.50 per share dividend, while the Automotive segment, under new leadership at Pep Boys, saw margin improvement and top-line reinvigoration potential. Investment segment repositioning: The funds posted a –4.1% return driven by broad market shorts, trimmed headline net short exposure to ~36% (6% adjusted for energy hedges) and are focusing on netting and activism strategies going forward. Strong liquidity and balance sheet: Issued $700 million of 9.75% senior notes due 2029 to refinance 2024 maturities, leaving the holding company with $4.8 billion in cash and fund investments and subsidiaries with $1.7 billion of cash and revolver availability. NAV and distribution: Indicative net asset value stood at $4.8 billion at quarter end, and the Board approved a $1.00 quarterly distribution per depository unit, consistent with the prior quarter. AI Generated. May Contain Errors.Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallIcahn Enterprises Q4 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2xThere are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning and welcome to the Icahn Enterprises LP 4th Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call with Jesse Lynn, General Counsel Andrew Tino, President and Chief Executive Officer Ted Papastolo, Chief Financial Officer and Robert Flint, Chief Accounting Officer. I would now like to hand the conference over to Jesse Lynn, who will read the opening statement. Speaker 100:00:25Thank you, operator. The Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 provides a safe harbor for forward looking statements we make in this presentation, including statements regarding our future performance and plans for our businesses and potential acquisitions. Forward looking statements may be identified by words such as expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, seeks, estimates, will or words of similar meaning and include, but are not limited to, statements about the expected future business and financial performance of Icahn Enterprises, LP and its subsidiaries. Actual events, results and outcomes may differ materially from our expectations due to a variety of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that are discussed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including economic, competitive, legal and other factors. Accordingly, there is no assurance that our expectations will be realized. Speaker 100:01:13We assume no obligation to update or revise any forward looking statement should circumstances change, except as otherwise required by law. This presentation also includes certain non GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA. A reconciliation of such non GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the back of this presentation. We also present indicative net asset value. Indicative net asset value includes, among other things, changes in the fair value of certain subsidiaries, which are not included in our GAAP earnings. Speaker 100:01:45All net income and EBITDA amounts we will discuss are attributable to Icahn Enterprises unless otherwise specified. I'll now turn it over to Andrew Tino, our Chief Executive Officer. Speaker 200:01:57Thank you, Jesse. Let me first say I am honored to take on my new role as CEO. Carl, IEP and our activism strategy have established an important place in Corporate America and I'm excited to get to work. So today I'll provide a brief overview of Q4 results and then we will be available for questions. The 4th quarter net loss was $139,000,000 an improvement of $116,000,000 over Q4 'twenty two. Speaker 200:02:254th quarter adjusted EBITDA was $9,000,000 an increase of $84,000,000 compared to Q4 'twenty two. Our controlled operating companies have performed well. CVI has benefited from strong crack spreads, good operating utilization, reduced RIN costs and has authorized a $0.50 dividend per share. Our Automotive segment has posted strong year over year performance. David Wilitz is now leading the day to day operations at Pep Boys and we see the potential for significant long term value creation both through margin improvement and reinvigorating the top line. Speaker 200:03:00In the Investment segment this quarter, the funds had a negative return of 4.1 percent, primarily driven by broad market shorts. Our headline net short exposure of 36% is approximately 6% when you adjust for the energy hedges. This compares to approximately 34% as of the prior year end excluding the energy hedges. The indicative net asset value ended the quarter at $4,800,000,000 Additionally, the Board approved a $1 quarterly distribution per depository unit, which is consistent with the last quarter. With that, let me turn it over to Ted for a detailed discussion of all of our segments. Speaker 300:03:38Thank you, Andrew. I will begin by reviewing the performance of our segments and comment on the strength of our balance sheet. Turning to our Investment segment. The funds had a negative return of 4.1% for the quarter. Long and other positions had a positive performance attribution of 2.4%, while short positions had a negative performance attribution of 6.5%. Speaker 300:04:02During the quarter, the segment made a pro rata distribution of $400,000,000 of which the holding company received its portion of 242,000,000 dollars The holding company's interest in the funds was approximately $3,200,000,000 as of quarterend. Turning to our Energy segment. In Q4 2023, adjusted EBITDA was $120,000,000 as compared to $168,000,000 in Q4 20 22. Q4 2023 refining margin per throughput barrel was $15.01 compared to $17.14 in the prior year quarter. This decrease was driven by weaker crack spreads and unfavorable inventory valuations that were offset in part by favorable derivative and RIN related impacts. Speaker 300:04:48Q4 2023 average realized gate prices for UAN decreased by 47% to $2.41 per tonne and ammonia decreased by 52 percent to $4.61 per tonne when compared to the prior year quarter. CVI declared a 4th quarter cash dividend of $0.50 per share. And now to our Automotive segment. As we previously discussed, the segment has undergone segment results throughout 2023 are made up primarily of automotive service operations as compared to 2022, which also included the aftermarket parts operations of Auto Plus. Q4 2023 automotive service revenues were down $15,000,000 compared to Q4 2022, driven by store closures and lower car count. Speaker 300:05:42Adjusted EBITDA was $28,000,000 for the quarter, a $71,000,000 improvement as compared to Q4 2022, mainly due to the exit of the Auto Plus aftermarket parts business. Now turning to our Real Estate segment. Q4 2023 net sales and other revenues increased by $8,000,000 and adjusted EBITDA increased by $3,000,000 compared to the prior year quarter, primarily driven by the sale of single family homes. Now on to our other operating segments. Food Packaging's adjusted EBITDA was flat for Q4 2023 as compared to the prior year quarter. Speaker 300:06:19The quarter over quarter comparison was positively impacted by pricing initiatives and lower distribution costs, which was offset by lower sales volume. Home Fashion's adjusted EBITDA increased by $6,000,000 as compared to the prior year quarter, primarily due to lower raw material and freight costs. The Pharma segment's adjusted EBITDA for Q4 20 3 improved by $3,000,000 as compared to the prior year quarter, mainly due to increased sales volume along with margin improvement. Now turning to our liquidity. During December, IEP issued $700,000,000 of 9.75 senior unsecured notes due 2029. Speaker 300:07:02The net proceeds from this issuance together with $376,000,000 of cash on hand was used to satisfy the outstanding notes due 2024. We maintain liquidity at the holding company and at each of our operating subsidiaries to take advantage of attractive opportunities. As of year end, the holding company had cash and investment in the funds of $4,800,000,000 and our subsidiaries had cash and revolver availability of $1,700,000,000 In summary, we continue to focus on building asset value and maintaining liquidity to enable us to capitalize on opportunities within and outside our existing operating segments. Thank you. Operator, can you please open the call up for questions? Operator00:07:46Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Dan Fannon with Jefferies. Your line is now open. Speaker 400:08:12Thanks. Good morning. Andrew, I was hoping to get your thoughts on the auto business. And I know that putting David there was a change. But I guess what as you think about 2024, what are you guys doing differently? Speaker 400:08:27Or what are you expecting in terms of improvement as you think about that business over the next kind of 12 months? Speaker 200:08:38We don't really look at it on a 12 month basis. I would just say longer term, if you look at the company, if you look at its margins and you compare it to its peers, we think there's a lot more upset. And so Dave is the person to lead that effort and so that's why he's there. He's excited about it and so we're waiting. Speaker 400:08:59So I guess just in the context, I mean, is there anything different you guys are doing that you guys did a lot last year proactively to change the business. Now is it more of continuing to let that play out in the economic backdrop improving? Or I guess what else should we think about in terms of driving that improvement, I guess on a multi year basis, not even just next this year? Speaker 200:09:21So last year you had the deconsolidation that required a lot of effort and this year is about focusing on Pep Boys' business and the years to come. Speaker 400:09:35Okay. That's not really giving me much there, I guess. I guess then on the fund side, the performance of the fund sounds very similar or has been very similar despite and the positioning similar despite what was characterized as a change in strategy a few quarters ago. So given your closeness to it, I was hoping maybe to get a little bit more color as you think about what really changed in terms of how you are thinking about managing the overall portfolio. And if we should think about, again, prospectively, how if there's anything different and or what you are positioning and or changing within the portfolio to obviously generate different more positive returns? Speaker 200:10:20Yes. So, if you I think the first thing you said was about the call it, the overall net short exposure. So if you look at year end 2022 and you looked at our exposure, I think the headline net short was 47%. And if you adjusted that for the refining hedges and energy hedges, you'd be down to minus 34%. Now, if you compare that to today, our exposure, call it, is mid single digits negative when you exclude our energy hedges. Speaker 200:10:50And so we think that the portfolio has changed significantly. And then in terms of what are we going to do going forward, it's we're going to do exactly what Carl said we would do, which is we'll stick to our netting, we'll focus on activism. And I think more recently you've seen us announce our involvement in 2 names, both of which we're very excited about. And we think the portfolio is in very good shape for the future. Speaker 400:11:24Understood. Could you give the rough comparison? You went to 2022. What was that comparison last quarter net of the energy exposures versus what you did with the low single digits as of the end of the year? Speaker 200:11:40Yes. So I think it's down a little bit of probably another 5% from what it was in ninethirty. Speaker 400:11:48Great. Okay. Thanks for taking. Speaker 200:11:50Maybe another question you asked in there, which is we continue to refine the portfolio. So, we trimmed a few names and we're focusing on the names that we like Operator00:12:13Our next question comes from the line of Bruce Monrath with Northeast Investors Trust. Your line is now open. Speaker 500:12:20Hi guys. Thanks for hosting the call. A question if I could on Food Packaging. So volumes were down year over year, I guess. Could you add a little more color on that? Speaker 500:12:30And is Osceola running fine? Are there waste issues? Maybe are there geographic is there geographic dimension to it? And then also is everything flat at the SG and A line or is it possible that SG and A went up because of accruals because you had such a good start to the year? Or anything going on at that line either? Speaker 500:12:54Two questions. Thanks. Speaker 300:12:57Hey, Bruce, it's Fed. Thanks for the question. But before I answer other questions, let me just give more context on the quarter and I think it'll help answer a lot of them. So volume softened during the quarter. And when comparing Q4 of 2023 to Q4 of 2022, David actually touched on this in the last call, The new round of Russian sanctions went into effect during 2023, so that affected comparability. Speaker 300:13:20Not all these sanctions were there in 2022. But the more significant reason was our customers have drawn down on their inventories. And this is to bring them to more historical levels. And you can attribute this to the supply chain correcting or actually improving as compared to recent years. When supply chain issues arise, you can imagine raw material inventory levels tend to creep up just to ensure operations. Speaker 300:13:47And we knew this correction was coming, but it's very hard to time. And it looks like it happened the majority of it happened in Q4. And although it affected demand in Q4, we don't think that's sustainable. And once the rebalance finishes, the demand will come back. And just the other part of the equation in terms of EBITDA, it was flat as compared to prior year's quarter because of the pricing initiatives management has taken and those have helped along with lower distribution costs. Speaker 300:14:17So in a nutshell, that's what's occurring in Q4. SG and A levels, imagine, has always continued to do a good job of maintaining. But the story there is the volume softening. Speaker 500:14:32Okay. And is that continue? I'm sorry, did you say for 1Q? And by the way, this is consistent with what Viscopan would have said in 3 in their 3Q numbers about destocking. Is it pretty much runs course? Speaker 300:14:49Yes, we think it's going to come back, but we'll talk about Q1 in about 2 months when we release Q1's earnings. But yes, we don't think the demand disruption is sustainable. Speaker 400:15:00Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks, Bruce. Operator00:15:03Thank you. I'm currently showing no further questions at this time. I'd like to hand the conference back over to Mr. Andrew Tino for closing remarks. Speaker 200:15:12Thanks everyone for joining the call today and we'll speak to you in a few months. Operator00:15:17This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participation. You may now disconnect. Everyone have a wonderful day.Read morePowered by Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Annual report(10-K) Icahn Enterprises Earnings HeadlinesIcahn Enterprises L.P. (NASDAQ:IEP) Q2 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptAugust 7 at 3:23 AM | msn.comIcahn (IEP) Q2 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptAugust 6 at 3:05 AM | theglobeandmail.comHe Called Nvidia at $1.10. Now, He Says THIS Stock Will…The original Magnificent Seven returned 16,894%—turning $7K into $1.18 million. Now, the man who called Nvidia at $1.10 reveals AI’s Next Magnificent Seven… including one stock he says could become America’s next trillion-dollar giant.August 8 at 2:00 AM | The Oxford Club (Ad)Icahn Enterprises (NASDAQ:IEP) Shares Pass Below Two Hundred Day Moving Average on Disappointing EarningsAugust 6 at 2:55 AM | americanbankingnews.comIcahn Enterprises LP Earnings Call: Mixed Outlook with Growth and ChallengesAugust 5 at 9:07 PM | tipranks.comIcahn Enterprises L.P. Announces Pricing of Senior NotesAugust 5 at 4:55 PM | prnewswire.comSee More Icahn Enterprises Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Icahn Enterprises? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Icahn Enterprises and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About Icahn EnterprisesIcahn Enterprises (NASDAQ:IEP), through its subsidiaries, engages in the investment, energy, automotive, food packaging, real estate, home fashion, and pharma businesses in the United States and Internationally. The Investment segment invests its proprietary capital through various private investment funds. This segment provides investment advisory and other related services. The Energy segment refines and markets transportation fuels in the form of gasoline and diesel fuels, as well as renewable diesel; and manufactures nitrogen fertilizers in the form of urea ammonium nitrate and ammonia. The Automotive segment sells automotive parts and materials, and retailed merchandise; offers automotive repair and maintenance services; and leases real estate properties. The Food Packaging segment produces and sells cellulosic, fibrous, and plastic casings that are used to prepare and package processed meat products. The Real Estate segment is involved in the leasing of land, retail, office, and industrial properties; the development and sale of single-family homes; and the operation of country clubs. The Home Fashion segment manufactures, sources, markets, distributes, and sells home fashion consumer products. The Pharma segment offers pharmaceutical products and services. The company was incorporated in 1987 and is headquartered in Sunny Isles Beach, Florida.View Icahn Enterprises ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Airbnb Beats Earnings, But the Growth Story Is Losing AltitudeDutch Bros Just Flipped the Script With a Massive Earnings BeatIs Eli Lilly’s 14% Post-Earnings Slide a Buy-the-Dip Opportunity?Constellation Energy’s Earnings Beat Signals a New EraRealty Income Rallies Post-Earnings Miss—Here’s What Drove ItDon't Mix the Signal for Noise in Super Micro Computer's EarningsWhy Monolithic Power's Earnings and Guidance Ignited a Rally Upcoming Earnings SEA (8/12/2025)Cisco Systems (8/13/2025)Alibaba Group (8/13/2025)Applied Materials (8/14/2025)NetEase (8/14/2025)Deere & Company (8/14/2025)NU (8/14/2025)Petroleo Brasileiro S.A.- Petrobras (8/14/2025)Palo Alto Networks (8/18/2025)Home Depot (8/19/2025) Get 30 Days of MarketBeat All Access for Free Sign up for MarketBeat All Access to gain access to MarketBeat's full suite of research tools. 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There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning and welcome to the Icahn Enterprises LP 4th Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call with Jesse Lynn, General Counsel Andrew Tino, President and Chief Executive Officer Ted Papastolo, Chief Financial Officer and Robert Flint, Chief Accounting Officer. I would now like to hand the conference over to Jesse Lynn, who will read the opening statement. Speaker 100:00:25Thank you, operator. The Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 provides a safe harbor for forward looking statements we make in this presentation, including statements regarding our future performance and plans for our businesses and potential acquisitions. Forward looking statements may be identified by words such as expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, seeks, estimates, will or words of similar meaning and include, but are not limited to, statements about the expected future business and financial performance of Icahn Enterprises, LP and its subsidiaries. Actual events, results and outcomes may differ materially from our expectations due to a variety of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that are discussed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including economic, competitive, legal and other factors. Accordingly, there is no assurance that our expectations will be realized. Speaker 100:01:13We assume no obligation to update or revise any forward looking statement should circumstances change, except as otherwise required by law. This presentation also includes certain non GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA. A reconciliation of such non GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the back of this presentation. We also present indicative net asset value. Indicative net asset value includes, among other things, changes in the fair value of certain subsidiaries, which are not included in our GAAP earnings. Speaker 100:01:45All net income and EBITDA amounts we will discuss are attributable to Icahn Enterprises unless otherwise specified. I'll now turn it over to Andrew Tino, our Chief Executive Officer. Speaker 200:01:57Thank you, Jesse. Let me first say I am honored to take on my new role as CEO. Carl, IEP and our activism strategy have established an important place in Corporate America and I'm excited to get to work. So today I'll provide a brief overview of Q4 results and then we will be available for questions. The 4th quarter net loss was $139,000,000 an improvement of $116,000,000 over Q4 'twenty two. Speaker 200:02:254th quarter adjusted EBITDA was $9,000,000 an increase of $84,000,000 compared to Q4 'twenty two. Our controlled operating companies have performed well. CVI has benefited from strong crack spreads, good operating utilization, reduced RIN costs and has authorized a $0.50 dividend per share. Our Automotive segment has posted strong year over year performance. David Wilitz is now leading the day to day operations at Pep Boys and we see the potential for significant long term value creation both through margin improvement and reinvigorating the top line. Speaker 200:03:00In the Investment segment this quarter, the funds had a negative return of 4.1 percent, primarily driven by broad market shorts. Our headline net short exposure of 36% is approximately 6% when you adjust for the energy hedges. This compares to approximately 34% as of the prior year end excluding the energy hedges. The indicative net asset value ended the quarter at $4,800,000,000 Additionally, the Board approved a $1 quarterly distribution per depository unit, which is consistent with the last quarter. With that, let me turn it over to Ted for a detailed discussion of all of our segments. Speaker 300:03:38Thank you, Andrew. I will begin by reviewing the performance of our segments and comment on the strength of our balance sheet. Turning to our Investment segment. The funds had a negative return of 4.1% for the quarter. Long and other positions had a positive performance attribution of 2.4%, while short positions had a negative performance attribution of 6.5%. Speaker 300:04:02During the quarter, the segment made a pro rata distribution of $400,000,000 of which the holding company received its portion of 242,000,000 dollars The holding company's interest in the funds was approximately $3,200,000,000 as of quarterend. Turning to our Energy segment. In Q4 2023, adjusted EBITDA was $120,000,000 as compared to $168,000,000 in Q4 20 22. Q4 2023 refining margin per throughput barrel was $15.01 compared to $17.14 in the prior year quarter. This decrease was driven by weaker crack spreads and unfavorable inventory valuations that were offset in part by favorable derivative and RIN related impacts. Speaker 300:04:48Q4 2023 average realized gate prices for UAN decreased by 47% to $2.41 per tonne and ammonia decreased by 52 percent to $4.61 per tonne when compared to the prior year quarter. CVI declared a 4th quarter cash dividend of $0.50 per share. And now to our Automotive segment. As we previously discussed, the segment has undergone segment results throughout 2023 are made up primarily of automotive service operations as compared to 2022, which also included the aftermarket parts operations of Auto Plus. Q4 2023 automotive service revenues were down $15,000,000 compared to Q4 2022, driven by store closures and lower car count. Speaker 300:05:42Adjusted EBITDA was $28,000,000 for the quarter, a $71,000,000 improvement as compared to Q4 2022, mainly due to the exit of the Auto Plus aftermarket parts business. Now turning to our Real Estate segment. Q4 2023 net sales and other revenues increased by $8,000,000 and adjusted EBITDA increased by $3,000,000 compared to the prior year quarter, primarily driven by the sale of single family homes. Now on to our other operating segments. Food Packaging's adjusted EBITDA was flat for Q4 2023 as compared to the prior year quarter. Speaker 300:06:19The quarter over quarter comparison was positively impacted by pricing initiatives and lower distribution costs, which was offset by lower sales volume. Home Fashion's adjusted EBITDA increased by $6,000,000 as compared to the prior year quarter, primarily due to lower raw material and freight costs. The Pharma segment's adjusted EBITDA for Q4 20 3 improved by $3,000,000 as compared to the prior year quarter, mainly due to increased sales volume along with margin improvement. Now turning to our liquidity. During December, IEP issued $700,000,000 of 9.75 senior unsecured notes due 2029. Speaker 300:07:02The net proceeds from this issuance together with $376,000,000 of cash on hand was used to satisfy the outstanding notes due 2024. We maintain liquidity at the holding company and at each of our operating subsidiaries to take advantage of attractive opportunities. As of year end, the holding company had cash and investment in the funds of $4,800,000,000 and our subsidiaries had cash and revolver availability of $1,700,000,000 In summary, we continue to focus on building asset value and maintaining liquidity to enable us to capitalize on opportunities within and outside our existing operating segments. Thank you. Operator, can you please open the call up for questions? Operator00:07:46Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Dan Fannon with Jefferies. Your line is now open. Speaker 400:08:12Thanks. Good morning. Andrew, I was hoping to get your thoughts on the auto business. And I know that putting David there was a change. But I guess what as you think about 2024, what are you guys doing differently? Speaker 400:08:27Or what are you expecting in terms of improvement as you think about that business over the next kind of 12 months? Speaker 200:08:38We don't really look at it on a 12 month basis. I would just say longer term, if you look at the company, if you look at its margins and you compare it to its peers, we think there's a lot more upset. And so Dave is the person to lead that effort and so that's why he's there. He's excited about it and so we're waiting. Speaker 400:08:59So I guess just in the context, I mean, is there anything different you guys are doing that you guys did a lot last year proactively to change the business. Now is it more of continuing to let that play out in the economic backdrop improving? Or I guess what else should we think about in terms of driving that improvement, I guess on a multi year basis, not even just next this year? Speaker 200:09:21So last year you had the deconsolidation that required a lot of effort and this year is about focusing on Pep Boys' business and the years to come. Speaker 400:09:35Okay. That's not really giving me much there, I guess. I guess then on the fund side, the performance of the fund sounds very similar or has been very similar despite and the positioning similar despite what was characterized as a change in strategy a few quarters ago. So given your closeness to it, I was hoping maybe to get a little bit more color as you think about what really changed in terms of how you are thinking about managing the overall portfolio. And if we should think about, again, prospectively, how if there's anything different and or what you are positioning and or changing within the portfolio to obviously generate different more positive returns? Speaker 200:10:20Yes. So, if you I think the first thing you said was about the call it, the overall net short exposure. So if you look at year end 2022 and you looked at our exposure, I think the headline net short was 47%. And if you adjusted that for the refining hedges and energy hedges, you'd be down to minus 34%. Now, if you compare that to today, our exposure, call it, is mid single digits negative when you exclude our energy hedges. Speaker 200:10:50And so we think that the portfolio has changed significantly. And then in terms of what are we going to do going forward, it's we're going to do exactly what Carl said we would do, which is we'll stick to our netting, we'll focus on activism. And I think more recently you've seen us announce our involvement in 2 names, both of which we're very excited about. And we think the portfolio is in very good shape for the future. Speaker 400:11:24Understood. Could you give the rough comparison? You went to 2022. What was that comparison last quarter net of the energy exposures versus what you did with the low single digits as of the end of the year? Speaker 200:11:40Yes. So I think it's down a little bit of probably another 5% from what it was in ninethirty. Speaker 400:11:48Great. Okay. Thanks for taking. Speaker 200:11:50Maybe another question you asked in there, which is we continue to refine the portfolio. So, we trimmed a few names and we're focusing on the names that we like Operator00:12:13Our next question comes from the line of Bruce Monrath with Northeast Investors Trust. Your line is now open. Speaker 500:12:20Hi guys. Thanks for hosting the call. A question if I could on Food Packaging. So volumes were down year over year, I guess. Could you add a little more color on that? Speaker 500:12:30And is Osceola running fine? Are there waste issues? Maybe are there geographic is there geographic dimension to it? And then also is everything flat at the SG and A line or is it possible that SG and A went up because of accruals because you had such a good start to the year? Or anything going on at that line either? Speaker 500:12:54Two questions. Thanks. Speaker 300:12:57Hey, Bruce, it's Fed. Thanks for the question. But before I answer other questions, let me just give more context on the quarter and I think it'll help answer a lot of them. So volume softened during the quarter. And when comparing Q4 of 2023 to Q4 of 2022, David actually touched on this in the last call, The new round of Russian sanctions went into effect during 2023, so that affected comparability. Speaker 300:13:20Not all these sanctions were there in 2022. But the more significant reason was our customers have drawn down on their inventories. And this is to bring them to more historical levels. And you can attribute this to the supply chain correcting or actually improving as compared to recent years. When supply chain issues arise, you can imagine raw material inventory levels tend to creep up just to ensure operations. Speaker 300:13:47And we knew this correction was coming, but it's very hard to time. And it looks like it happened the majority of it happened in Q4. And although it affected demand in Q4, we don't think that's sustainable. And once the rebalance finishes, the demand will come back. And just the other part of the equation in terms of EBITDA, it was flat as compared to prior year's quarter because of the pricing initiatives management has taken and those have helped along with lower distribution costs. Speaker 300:14:17So in a nutshell, that's what's occurring in Q4. SG and A levels, imagine, has always continued to do a good job of maintaining. But the story there is the volume softening. Speaker 500:14:32Okay. And is that continue? I'm sorry, did you say for 1Q? And by the way, this is consistent with what Viscopan would have said in 3 in their 3Q numbers about destocking. Is it pretty much runs course? Speaker 300:14:49Yes, we think it's going to come back, but we'll talk about Q1 in about 2 months when we release Q1's earnings. But yes, we don't think the demand disruption is sustainable. Speaker 400:15:00Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks, Bruce. Operator00:15:03Thank you. I'm currently showing no further questions at this time. I'd like to hand the conference back over to Mr. Andrew Tino for closing remarks. Speaker 200:15:12Thanks everyone for joining the call today and we'll speak to you in a few months. Operator00:15:17This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participation. You may now disconnect. 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