NASDAQ:ABL Abacus Life Q1 2024 Earnings Report $8.25 +0.05 (+0.61%) Closing price 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$8.24 -0.01 (-0.12%) As of 04:10 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast Abacus Life EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.11Consensus EPS N/ABeat/MissN/AOne Year Ago EPSN/AAbacus Life Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$21.49 millionExpected RevenueN/ABeat/MissN/AYoY Revenue GrowthN/AAbacus Life Announcement DetailsQuarterQ1 2024Date5/13/2024TimeN/AConference Call DateMonday, May 13, 2024Conference Call Time9:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsAbacus Life's Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 8, 2025, with a conference call scheduled at 5:00 PM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Q1 2025 Earnings ReportConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by Abacus Life Q1 2024 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrMay 13, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 7 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Greetings, and welcome to the Abacus Life First Quarter 20 24 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Garrett Edson, Managing Director at ICR. Operator00:00:25Thank you. You may begin. Speaker 100:00:27Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Of risks that can affect the business. Abacus Life specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on Form 8 ks with the Securities and Exchange Commission and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward looking statements and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties, which if they materialize could materially affect results. Reference is made to the section titled Forward Looking Statements in the company's earnings press release for the Q1 of 2024, which is incorporated herein by reference. Speaker 100:01:06We note forward looking statements, whether written or oral, include, but are not limited to, AbbVoxLife's expectation or prediction of financial and business performance and conditions as well as its competitive and industry outlook. Forward looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including the risk factors set forth in Item 1A of our most recent 10 ks, which if they materialize could materially affect results and such forward looking statements do not guarantee performance and Abacus Life gives no such assurances. Abacus Life is under no obligation expressly disclaims any obligation to update, alter or otherwise revise any forward looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law. In addition, historical data pertaining to the operating results and other performance indicators applicable to Abacus Life are not necessarily indicative of results to be achieved in succeeding periods. I will now turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer of Abacus Life. Speaker 200:01:59Thank you to everyone listening today for your interest in Abacus, and welcome to our 2024 Q1 earnings call. With me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Bill McAuley. And after our remarks, we'll open it up to your questions. We kept the momentum rolling in the Q1 of 2024, delivering another strong quarter of positive results and profitable growth, while further strengthening our balance sheet. Our relentless execution continues to validate our differentiated business model as a leading market maker and alternative asset manager. Speaker 200:02:31For the Q1 of 2024, more than doubling total revenues year over year to $21,500,000 and delivered another quarter of strong earnings, growing adjusted EBITDA by 38% to $11,600,000 and generating adjusted net income of $6,700,000 Bill will be along shortly to discuss more of our Q1 financial performance in further detail. On prior calls, we've highlighted our more enhanced sales and marketing spend As we saw clear opportunities to expand our share of the market and noted that we would begin to see the results approximately 1 quarter later. That's exactly what happened in the Q1 as our investments in marketing helped drive a 59% year over year increase in direct to consumer originations. As part of our strategy, we intend to continue investing thoughtfully in our marketing, which we believe is an excellent use of capital to drive our growth over the long term. We are also particularly pleased with our adjusted EBITDA performance, which was driven by higher originations along with an increase in our carrier buyback program. Speaker 200:03:40As we've noted on prior calls, our continued growth in both revenue and adjusted EBITDA is a testament to the partnerships we've cultivated with our carriers and reinsurers over the years. Also in the quarter, we successfully raised an additional $25,000,000 of capital via our 9 point 875 percent notes and repurchased over $11,000,000 of our shares since the stock repurchase program's inception in December 2023. Since the end of the Q1, we also significantly strengthened our senior management team with 2 key additions. First, we are thrilled to bring on board Elena Plesco as our new Chief Capital Officer. Elena brings to Abacus a wealth of investment experience and joins us after serving as the Co Head of Specialty Finance at KKR, where she invested throughout multiple asset classes. Speaker 200:04:33At Abacus, she will oversee our capital management initiatives, further optimize our financial structure and help facilitate our national and ultimately international expansion. We've known Elena for years and she is a perfect complementary fit for Abacus as we progress in enhancing our investment management services. Welcome, Elena. And a few weeks ago, we are excited to add Faye Hsui as Vice President of ABL Wealth. Fei comes to us from Dynasty Financial Partners, where she served as a strategic advisor to some of the largest and most successful registered investment advisors in the country, particularly with respect to alternative assets. Speaker 200:05:15With nearly 2 decades of experience in asset and wealth management, she is the ideal person to oversee the ongoing build out at ABL Wealth and to bring our unique customized offerings, including lifespan based financial solutions to our clients in the broader RIA community. Faye has already hit the ground running and we couldn't be happier to have her on board. We also continue to make strides in enhancing ABL tech in recent months as the use of our proprietary technology in wealth of longevity data to create bespoke solutions for the pension fund and financial services industries is finding an audience. We continue to expect to see top line contributions from both ABL Wealth and ABL Tech later this year. Before turning the call over to Bill, I wanted to highlight our upcoming Investor Day and Longevity Summit taking place on June 13. Speaker 200:06:10The summit is a one day event focused on how lifespan data can be applied to financial products. And we will also take investors on a deeper dive into our business model, our products and the exciting future of Abacus. We are thrilled to have gathered some of the top professionals in the field of longevity and lifespan and they will be at the Summit to share their outlook on lifespan and how it will impact the future of financial planning. Our panelists include Doctor. Peter Attia, author of the number one New York best time seller, The Science and Art of Longevity Tina Alarasad, a professor at Northeastern University and an expert in lifespan based data science and AI. Speaker 200:06:55Doctor. Joseph Coughlin, he's the Head of the MIT AgeLab Steve Grosso, CNBC Market Analyst James Mauro, the CEO of Caladyne Capital and Sheryl Penney, President and CEO of Dynasty Financial Partners. If you are interested in attending or joining the live stream, please email our Investor Relations department at investorsabacuslife.com to receive an invitation. To sum up, we remain confident in our business, the opportunities within our $230,000,000,000 plus total addressable core market and in the incredible stability of our asset class. We are continuing to educate policyholders about the value of their policies through our network of over 30,000 financial professionals and through television and digital campaigns for our growing direct to consumer channel. Speaker 200:07:47Meanwhile, our expanded verticals and deep data and technology advantages helping us grow our vertically integrated alternative asset manager with multiple revenue and profit streams. With our proven business model, 1st class expert team and our trove of proprietary data and technology, we remain well positioned for sustainable and profitable growth and ultimately create long term value for our shareholders. With that, I will now hand it over to our CFO, Bill McCauley, to discuss the specifics on our Q1 results and financials. Speaker 300:08:22Thanks Jay and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we delivered another strong quarter of top line growth and profitability across our business. The key driver of our business performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform. In the Q1 2024, origination capital deployed was $33,300,000 compared to $34,400,000 in the prior year period, while we grew policy originations 6% to $119,000,000 compared to $112,000,000 in the prior year period. Total revenue in the Q1 2024 more than doubled to 21,500,000 compared to $10,300,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:09:05The increase was primarily due to strong performance across all segments. As of March 31, 2024, Abacus held 322 policies of which 314 are accounted for under the fair value method and 8 are accounted for using the investment method, which is cost plus premiums paid. As a reminder, for all policies purchased after June 30, 2023, the company has elected to account for those under the fair value method going forward. For policies purchased before June 30, 2023, the company elected to use either the fair value method or the investment method. Revenue from our portfolio servicing segment in the Q1 of 2024 was $200,000 compared to $300,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:09:56Turning to expenses, total operating expenses excluding unrealized gains and losses and the change in fair value of debt for the Q1 of 2024 were approximately $15,000,000 compared to $1,400,000 in the prior year period. We would note that the Q1 2024 total operating expenses included $5,800,000 of non cash stock compensation expense and $800,000 of public company related expenses, both of which did not occur in the prior year period. We also increased sales and marketing expense by approximately $1,200,000 compared to the prior year period, which assisted in accelerating our growth profile. The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days. Consistent with our last few quarters, total operating expenses in the Q2 of 2024 will be elevated from the prior year period by non cash equity compensation expenses as well as ongoing public company expenses that did not occur in the Q2 of 2023. Speaker 300:11:04We will begin to anniversary non cash equity compensation and public company expenses in the Q3 of 2024. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter grew 38% to $11,600,000 compared to $8,400,000 in the prior year period. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 54% for the quarter compared to 81% in the prior year period. GAAP net loss attributable to stockholders for the quarter was 1,300,000 dollars compared to GAAP net income attributable to stockholders of $8,100,000 in the prior year period. On an adjusted basis, excluding non cash stock compensation, amortization and change in fair value of warrant liability, net income for the Q1 of 2024 was $6,700,000 compared to $7,600,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:11:57Now turning to our balance sheet metrics. On an annualized basis, adjusted return on equity and adjusted return on invested capital for the 3 month period ended March 31, 2024 were 16% 15% respectively, reflecting our highly profitable business model. As of March 31, 2024, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $65,400,000 balance sheet policy assets of $126,900,000 and outstanding long term debt at fair value of $131,400,000 During the Q1, we were pleased to successfully raise an additional $25,000,000 through our 9.875 percent fixed rate senior notes, while also repurchasing shares through our buyback program. As of May 6, 2024, we had repurchased approximately 9 In Speaker 400:12:54summary Speaker 300:12:59In summary, we are pleased with our strong results delivering a quarter of triple digit growth on our top line as well as solid profitability on an adjusted basis. We remain very excited about the growth opportunities ahead and are well positioned to execute on our long term plans. I will now turn it back to our CEO, Jay Jackson for our closing comments. Speaker 200:13:19Thanks, Bill. To sum up, we believe Abacus Life is well positioned to capitalize on a large market opportunity within a dynamic sector today. Very few other business models offer 20 years of consistent net income, a $230,000,000,000 plus in growing target market and new growth opportunities such as ABL Wealth and ABL Tech. We are proud to be a growth company that has generated consistent long term profitability. I'd like to thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Navicus Life. Speaker 200:13:52We will now field any questions. Operator00:13:56Thank you. At this time, we'll be conducting a question and answer Our first question comes from the line of Wilma Burdesh with Raymond James. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 500:14:26Hey, good morning, everyone. Could you talk a little bit about how much you currently bought back under your primary carrier relationship? Thank you. Speaker 200:14:37Thank you, Wilma. Hey, great to hear from you. Speaker 400:14:41Yes. Speaker 300:14:42The specifics on the dollar amount Speaker 600:14:43that we're Speaker 200:14:43working with on the carrier buyback program is not an actual figure that we're putting out publicly at this point just due to confidentiality in relationship to their reported earnings as well. So what I can tell you is that it's ongoing, it's been increasing and we look forward to continuing to grow that relationship and many more. Speaker 500:15:15Okay. Thank you. And then could you talk a little bit about the IRRs of the business you booked in 1Q 'twenty four and the volumes you could have generated at various IRR levels? Thank you. Speaker 200:15:27Thank you, Wilma. The IRRs that we're typically generating, the way that I like to look at it is I go right to our ROE. So if you look at our return on equity in Q1, it was at 16%. I think ROIC was around 15%, which is in line with where we're when we price and purchase any of these policies that's very much in line with where we price them at. So we haven't seen any significant degradation in returns relative to any of the policies that we're purchasing at this point. Speaker 200:15:58I think that from our position, the opportunity continues to grow. We're seeing more policies come through our platform than we have capital to purchase. So we're always continuing to seek and look for stronger sources of capital so that we can continue to purchase all of the policies that our platform is generating versus sending those directly to 3rd parties. Speaker 500:16:24Thank you. And one last one and then I'll re queue. But could you provide an update on the mutual fund launch? Thanks. Speaker 200:16:33Sure. We have filed for a 40 Act mutual fund and interval fund. That process is still happening. We're making significant progress in educating the SEC on our industry and our asset. This would be the first type of fund that the SEC has approved in this specific asset for that particular structure. Speaker 200:16:55So we're very confident based upon the progress that we're currently making and we fully expect that product to be out in 2024. But in the meantime, we're also having a lot of success with our GPLP products that we continue to raise capital for on a monthly basis and that is a yield based product and you can see that reflected inside the balance sheet. Operator00:17:26Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Securities. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 400:17:40Hey, good morning. First question is around origination capital deployed $33,300,000 And I think Jay, it's probably like the low seasonal quarter is 1Q. It kind of picks up in second half of the year. But the question is around the pipeline, like could you put to work a lot more than that? How much growth do you see in putting origination capital to work? Speaker 200:18:12Sure. Thank you, Andrew. Great to hear from you. The pipeline for us is quite strong, falling in line with historical. And I think you're very astute to pick up from if you look at 2023 and the numbers that we had put out, you start to see this progression as the calendar year progresses. Speaker 200:18:31And so we feel that when we look at the Q2 and where we are in origination position, I think one indicator is that the number that we put out, even though you saw that the origination capital deployed was flat, the number of policies was up. And in addition to that, we saw a significant increase in our direct to consumer channel, up nearly 59%, which is to me an indication of the work that we're putting into our advertising. As we said in the 4th quarter, we increased our advertising spending in the Q4 of 2023 by almost $2,000,000 and we're starting to see some of the results of that certainly in the Q1 and we believe that will continue into the second and throughout the year. Speaker 400:19:19I see. So it sounds like there's kind of a growing emphasis on direct to consumer. Would that be right? Speaker 200:19:28I think it's a growing emphasis on education across the board, right. Focusing on consumers and what we referenced there is that we're advertising on channels that would include both policyholders as well as financial professionals. A big target of our advertising are in stations like CNBC, Fox Business, where traditionally you'll see financial professionals be the primary audience and then with core news media outlets in the afternoon and evening. I think that it's starting to have a significant impact across the board that 1st and foremost, most people still aren't aware that this financial option even exists for them. And in that advertising effort, we're able to actually help improve those numbers and you're starting to see some of the results of that. Speaker 400:20:20And if I could sneak 1 or 2 more quick questions in. Just general and admin at 11,300,000 dollars I guess if I took out the stock based comp, which could kind of be a little bit lumpy, and then maybe the $800,000 of public company expense seems like that's going to be normal. But what's a good run rate for general and admin expenses in terms of trying to model that? Speaker 300:20:51Hi, Andrew, it's Bill. Thanks for the question. I think to your point, if you were to take out the stock based compensation, which was running through the total operating expenses about $5,800,000 And then if you take out the depreciation and amortization as well, I think when you remove those 2 large items that gives you a good run rate of what you would expect. I guess the one caveat I would put in there is that as we continue to see or if we continue to see pipeline and origination growth throughout the year, we'd increase staffing in order to accommodate that. Speaker 400:21:31I see. And do you envision that staffing will grow significantly as the year progresses? Speaker 300:21:42Not significantly, but I would expect that as originations increase and the investor buy the carrier buyback program continues to increase as well that we would add some staffing, but not significantly. Speaker 400:21:57Got it. Thanks so Speaker 200:22:00much. Thank you. Operator00:22:03Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Howlett with B. Riley Securities. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 600:22:11Hey, Jay. Hey, Bill. Speaker 300:22:13Hey, Matt. Speaker 600:22:15Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Hey, look, I mean, congratulations on a terrific quarter. The active management revenue was just very strong again this quarter, very consistent with last quarter. Just diving a little deeper into it, was there anything in terms of the policies you sold to 3rd parties or what you held? Speaker 600:22:34Anything just different in the quarter? Any update on margins? And then I want to ask you about holdings these things clearly have long term much better IRRs than just flipping them. So talk to me about what you're finding in value, how many you want to hold and so forth, but just a little update on margins what you sold in the quarter and so forth? Sure. Speaker 200:22:55I'll start. I'll have Bill probably weighing in a little bit too. Thanks for the question, Matt. On a margin basis, there wasn't anything really out of the ordinary with the exception that we did have some larger trading specifically back to some of our carriers. And as we saw that increase occur, that certainly improves margins. Speaker 200:23:17But what it also does is that goes to your other question, which is in relationship to to how much we would hold. So if we're selling back to, let's say, a carrier, we're going to sell that paper and not going to hold that on our balance sheet while the other ones we might hold on our balance sheet for a little bit longer. I think the way to think about our business on a go forward basis is our intent is to remain balance sheet light and keep a larger percentage of those policies, what I would say is an active management, meaning that they're in motion and realizing those returns with some of what we would deem our best ideas to let those mature a little bit longer rather than sticking to where we are today on an average hold of under 6 months to potentially being something much longer around a year or 2 on some of those better ideas. And I think as we see more capital recycled on the balance sheet, you'll start to see that increase, as the percentage of policies that we hold beyond 6 months would increase to where they are today. Speaker 200:24:15Bill, if you want to add anything to that? Speaker 300:24:18No, nothing to add. Just echoing Jay's comments. Speaker 600:24:21In other words, if you can find policies that you can hold a bit longer, they can just really appreciate, then you can turn on and sell them at a much attractive value. I mean, just sort of a way of optimizing capital. Is that how to think about it? Speaker 200:24:35It is. And in addition to that, within the first one to 3 years of any distribution curve, you're going to have some experiences where you have a few of these policies mature and those would lead to significant multiples and returns ultimately on the balance sheet. And we think that on some cases, we should be taking advantage of that versus trading those right away. So when we think about how we how these policies mature a little bit, maybe letting them agencies in a little bit longer gives us a better opportunity to pick up some of the front end of that distribution curve. But in addition to that, having them accelerate potentially in a better rate of return versus what we would potentially trade it at today. Speaker 600:25:16All else being equal, the returns of the company, the ROE should improve. I mean, if that continues to manifest itself? Speaker 200:25:23That's correct. Speaker 600:25:25Terrific. And then, look, I think you added on a little more to that baby bond you have out there. The question is what quickly given how fast you turn over capital and you can trade these things as fast as you want, what's the appetite to take on some more leverage over time? I mean, it's given your unlevered IRRs are mid at least mid teens here. I mean, it's clearly very accretive to shareholders that you continue to raise debt capital, especially at a 9%, maybe below 9%. Speaker 600:26:03Can you just comment on when you look at Jay, like how you see the balance sheet shaping up? I mean, how much capacity can you just issue debt? Speaker 200:26:14Yes. You touched on 2 issues here is that what's our excess capacity and then what's the best way to finance that excess capacity. The excess capacity that we see on a monthly basis being generated from our platform is as much as 30% to 40% more than what we're currently spending, which means that we have a significant amount of room to deploy more capital. Now the question is, how do you best finance that opportunity? Is it done with debt? Speaker 200:26:38Leverage is interesting. We're certainly not taking anything off the table, but potentially there could be the opportunity where we use some equity financing where we don't have the interest carry, but at ROEs in the mid teens and higher something depending on the period, equity financing is also a very appealing option, which also addresses more specifically our float and liquidity of the stock. So, I think everyone saw on Friday, there was a public filing where we're considering and looking at that option now. Speaker 600:27:09Right. And some of those warrants could get exercised, those that could be capital into the company and so forth. It makes total sense and we look forward to for more capital and more growth in the company. And just one final question, maybe I missed it. I love the radio ads. Speaker 600:27:25I see you on TV, Jay. So how much clearly the marketing is having the impact. Anything to earmark terms of what we can expect this year in spend because clearly it's having an impact? Speaker 200:27:36Yes. Right now, our intent is to continue to increase our spend and do the marketing and continue the marketing in a smart and thoughtful way. We are doing things like a little bit different in the sense of adding to that marketing through making an open Investor Day and Longevity Summit where we're bringing in some of the top professionals in the space of lifespan and longevity to really drive that education home that you should be placing a value on your lifespan and how that value then correlates to the value of the underlying financial products such as your life insurance policy or other financial services that you might have. You've heard me talk frequently about in the last two calls about what's happening in our ABL Wealth as we added say and what's also going to be happening within our ABL tech division, utilizing that lifespan data and mortality verification data to help optimize pension funds and endowments. I think it's going to continue to be a growing sector with what we do. Speaker 200:28:35So our advertising in general is certainly becoming more broad. And right now, as we look at our cost of acquisition per customer per lead, we have not gotten to that point where we're starting to see that cost change significantly. What that means is that there's a lot of run room here still to do in advertising and we're still seeing effectively dollar for dollar on the amount of money that we spend in advertising to the success that we have in acquiring new policies. But also potentially gathering new clients within our ABL wealth channel. Speaker 600:29:12Terrific. I'm sorry, what was the day of that summit or that Investor Day? You have that out already, correct? Speaker 200:29:18June 13. So, we made that announcement on the call here today. It's going to be here in Orlando. We've got some again some of the top speakers and professionals. We'd love to have you come, Matt, and for those on the call. Speaker 200:29:30And that'll be a live event. In addition to that, we'll have a live stream. So very exciting and again broadening this message, we expect to have media sources there as well. And it's a type event that we don't have sponsors, it's just Abacus and we're talking about Abacus as exciting future as the Investor Day and then we're talking about how all of this lifespan data can be utilized in educating consumers and financial professionals across the country. Speaker 600:29:59Great. Look forward to attending. Speaker 200:30:02Awesome. We look forward to seeing you. Operator00:30:06Thank you. Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Wilma Burtis with Raymond James. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 500:30:14Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my follow ups. Nice hires in the quarter. Are there any other areas of management you expect to build out going forward? Thanks. Speaker 200:30:25Thanks, Wilma. Thank you. And yes, we are very proud of the new hires we have, both very successful people who had outstanding careers in other firms and honestly we're grateful to have them join our team. As we continue to expand, we anticipate adding very strategic personnel, particularly in the ABL Wealth channel. When it comes to the life insurance division, where we're acquiring policies, as Bill highlighted, we do plan on continuing to expand the underwriting in that division as those relationships go. Speaker 200:31:01We've solved an algorithm that helps us understand how much labor we need to meet the increased demand of policy origination as well. So we do expand the the thing to think about when we're looking at labor in general is that we add it based upon need in potential future growth. So it makes sense to us that we would add Atlanta in our capital markets as we're really taking a look at things like what are some of the strategic partnerships that we could have on a go forward basis either through partnership or through acquisition and then you have Faye who's really taken the lead in our ABL wealth channel working with RIAs and advisors educating them on everything that we do including our financial products. Speaker 500:31:51Okay. Thank you. And then last one for me. Have there been any additional opportunities to deploy Abaqus Tech that you've identified early in the year? And could you talk a little bit about the pipeline going forward for Abaqus Tech as well? Speaker 200:32:05Thanks. Sure. Within AbacusTech or ABLTech, we are in several what they call test runs with large pension funds as well as very large reinsurers and others. As we're entering that asset, they want to have more confirmation of the data and those have been very, very successful in some of those initial tests. So we're starting to see that now where we're moving towards full time sign ups of those companies. Speaker 200:32:33So as this moves, we expect that between now and the end of the year, the ABL tech revenue could ultimately end up being quite material over the next 12 months to 18 months. And so we're very excited about the progression there and the overall market feedback in that division. Speaker 500:32:52Okay. Thank you. Speaker 200:32:55Thank you. Operator00:32:57Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the floor back to Mr. Jackson for any final comments. Speaker 200:33:06Great. Thank you to everyone. We could not be again more thrilled and excited about the opportunity in the direction of Abacus and the future of Abacus, highlighted by a strong Q1 and what we expect to be a sustainable and consistent model. We look forward to speaking to you on our next call and for those who might have any additional questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a great day. Operator00:33:35Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you forRead morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallAbacus Life Q1 202400:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) Abacus Life Earnings HeadlinesAbacus Life (NASDAQ:ABL) Coverage Initiated by Analysts at Maxim GroupMay 1, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comAbacus Global Management blends technology and tradition to transform the life insurance marketplaceApril 26, 2025 | proactiveinvestors.com.auSilicon Valley Gold RushA new technology has sparked a modern-day gold rush in Silicon Valley. OpenAI’s Sam Altman invested $375M. Bill Gates has backed four companies in this space. The World Economic Forum calls it “the most exciting human discovery since fire.” Whitney Tilson believes this trend could mint a new class of wealthy investors—and he’s sharing one stock to watch now, for free.May 7, 2025 | Stansberry Research (Ad)Abacus Life, Inc. (ABL) Soars 6.9%: Is Further Upside Left in the Stock?April 10, 2025 | msn.comAbacus Global price target lowered to $11.50 from $13 at Piper SandlerApril 9, 2025 | markets.businessinsider.comPiper Sandler Reaffirms Their Buy Rating on Abacus Life (ABL)April 8, 2025 | markets.businessinsider.comSee More Abacus Life Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Abacus Life? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Abacus Life and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About Abacus LifeAbacus Life (NASDAQ:ABL) operates as an alternative asset manager specializing in life insurance products. It purchases life insurance policies from consumers seeking liquidity and manages policies over time via trading, holding, and/or servicing. 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There are 7 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Greetings, and welcome to the Abacus Life First Quarter 20 24 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Garrett Edson, Managing Director at ICR. Operator00:00:25Thank you. You may begin. Speaker 100:00:27Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Of risks that can affect the business. Abacus Life specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on Form 8 ks with the Securities and Exchange Commission and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward looking statements and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties, which if they materialize could materially affect results. Reference is made to the section titled Forward Looking Statements in the company's earnings press release for the Q1 of 2024, which is incorporated herein by reference. Speaker 100:01:06We note forward looking statements, whether written or oral, include, but are not limited to, AbbVoxLife's expectation or prediction of financial and business performance and conditions as well as its competitive and industry outlook. Forward looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including the risk factors set forth in Item 1A of our most recent 10 ks, which if they materialize could materially affect results and such forward looking statements do not guarantee performance and Abacus Life gives no such assurances. Abacus Life is under no obligation expressly disclaims any obligation to update, alter or otherwise revise any forward looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law. In addition, historical data pertaining to the operating results and other performance indicators applicable to Abacus Life are not necessarily indicative of results to be achieved in succeeding periods. I will now turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer of Abacus Life. Speaker 200:01:59Thank you to everyone listening today for your interest in Abacus, and welcome to our 2024 Q1 earnings call. With me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Bill McAuley. And after our remarks, we'll open it up to your questions. We kept the momentum rolling in the Q1 of 2024, delivering another strong quarter of positive results and profitable growth, while further strengthening our balance sheet. Our relentless execution continues to validate our differentiated business model as a leading market maker and alternative asset manager. Speaker 200:02:31For the Q1 of 2024, more than doubling total revenues year over year to $21,500,000 and delivered another quarter of strong earnings, growing adjusted EBITDA by 38% to $11,600,000 and generating adjusted net income of $6,700,000 Bill will be along shortly to discuss more of our Q1 financial performance in further detail. On prior calls, we've highlighted our more enhanced sales and marketing spend As we saw clear opportunities to expand our share of the market and noted that we would begin to see the results approximately 1 quarter later. That's exactly what happened in the Q1 as our investments in marketing helped drive a 59% year over year increase in direct to consumer originations. As part of our strategy, we intend to continue investing thoughtfully in our marketing, which we believe is an excellent use of capital to drive our growth over the long term. We are also particularly pleased with our adjusted EBITDA performance, which was driven by higher originations along with an increase in our carrier buyback program. Speaker 200:03:40As we've noted on prior calls, our continued growth in both revenue and adjusted EBITDA is a testament to the partnerships we've cultivated with our carriers and reinsurers over the years. Also in the quarter, we successfully raised an additional $25,000,000 of capital via our 9 point 875 percent notes and repurchased over $11,000,000 of our shares since the stock repurchase program's inception in December 2023. Since the end of the Q1, we also significantly strengthened our senior management team with 2 key additions. First, we are thrilled to bring on board Elena Plesco as our new Chief Capital Officer. Elena brings to Abacus a wealth of investment experience and joins us after serving as the Co Head of Specialty Finance at KKR, where she invested throughout multiple asset classes. Speaker 200:04:33At Abacus, she will oversee our capital management initiatives, further optimize our financial structure and help facilitate our national and ultimately international expansion. We've known Elena for years and she is a perfect complementary fit for Abacus as we progress in enhancing our investment management services. Welcome, Elena. And a few weeks ago, we are excited to add Faye Hsui as Vice President of ABL Wealth. Fei comes to us from Dynasty Financial Partners, where she served as a strategic advisor to some of the largest and most successful registered investment advisors in the country, particularly with respect to alternative assets. Speaker 200:05:15With nearly 2 decades of experience in asset and wealth management, she is the ideal person to oversee the ongoing build out at ABL Wealth and to bring our unique customized offerings, including lifespan based financial solutions to our clients in the broader RIA community. Faye has already hit the ground running and we couldn't be happier to have her on board. We also continue to make strides in enhancing ABL tech in recent months as the use of our proprietary technology in wealth of longevity data to create bespoke solutions for the pension fund and financial services industries is finding an audience. We continue to expect to see top line contributions from both ABL Wealth and ABL Tech later this year. Before turning the call over to Bill, I wanted to highlight our upcoming Investor Day and Longevity Summit taking place on June 13. Speaker 200:06:10The summit is a one day event focused on how lifespan data can be applied to financial products. And we will also take investors on a deeper dive into our business model, our products and the exciting future of Abacus. We are thrilled to have gathered some of the top professionals in the field of longevity and lifespan and they will be at the Summit to share their outlook on lifespan and how it will impact the future of financial planning. Our panelists include Doctor. Peter Attia, author of the number one New York best time seller, The Science and Art of Longevity Tina Alarasad, a professor at Northeastern University and an expert in lifespan based data science and AI. Speaker 200:06:55Doctor. Joseph Coughlin, he's the Head of the MIT AgeLab Steve Grosso, CNBC Market Analyst James Mauro, the CEO of Caladyne Capital and Sheryl Penney, President and CEO of Dynasty Financial Partners. If you are interested in attending or joining the live stream, please email our Investor Relations department at investorsabacuslife.com to receive an invitation. To sum up, we remain confident in our business, the opportunities within our $230,000,000,000 plus total addressable core market and in the incredible stability of our asset class. We are continuing to educate policyholders about the value of their policies through our network of over 30,000 financial professionals and through television and digital campaigns for our growing direct to consumer channel. Speaker 200:07:47Meanwhile, our expanded verticals and deep data and technology advantages helping us grow our vertically integrated alternative asset manager with multiple revenue and profit streams. With our proven business model, 1st class expert team and our trove of proprietary data and technology, we remain well positioned for sustainable and profitable growth and ultimately create long term value for our shareholders. With that, I will now hand it over to our CFO, Bill McCauley, to discuss the specifics on our Q1 results and financials. Speaker 300:08:22Thanks Jay and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we delivered another strong quarter of top line growth and profitability across our business. The key driver of our business performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform. In the Q1 2024, origination capital deployed was $33,300,000 compared to $34,400,000 in the prior year period, while we grew policy originations 6% to $119,000,000 compared to $112,000,000 in the prior year period. Total revenue in the Q1 2024 more than doubled to 21,500,000 compared to $10,300,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:09:05The increase was primarily due to strong performance across all segments. As of March 31, 2024, Abacus held 322 policies of which 314 are accounted for under the fair value method and 8 are accounted for using the investment method, which is cost plus premiums paid. As a reminder, for all policies purchased after June 30, 2023, the company has elected to account for those under the fair value method going forward. For policies purchased before June 30, 2023, the company elected to use either the fair value method or the investment method. Revenue from our portfolio servicing segment in the Q1 of 2024 was $200,000 compared to $300,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:09:56Turning to expenses, total operating expenses excluding unrealized gains and losses and the change in fair value of debt for the Q1 of 2024 were approximately $15,000,000 compared to $1,400,000 in the prior year period. We would note that the Q1 2024 total operating expenses included $5,800,000 of non cash stock compensation expense and $800,000 of public company related expenses, both of which did not occur in the prior year period. We also increased sales and marketing expense by approximately $1,200,000 compared to the prior year period, which assisted in accelerating our growth profile. The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days. Consistent with our last few quarters, total operating expenses in the Q2 of 2024 will be elevated from the prior year period by non cash equity compensation expenses as well as ongoing public company expenses that did not occur in the Q2 of 2023. Speaker 300:11:04We will begin to anniversary non cash equity compensation and public company expenses in the Q3 of 2024. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter grew 38% to $11,600,000 compared to $8,400,000 in the prior year period. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 54% for the quarter compared to 81% in the prior year period. GAAP net loss attributable to stockholders for the quarter was 1,300,000 dollars compared to GAAP net income attributable to stockholders of $8,100,000 in the prior year period. On an adjusted basis, excluding non cash stock compensation, amortization and change in fair value of warrant liability, net income for the Q1 of 2024 was $6,700,000 compared to $7,600,000 in the prior year period. Speaker 300:11:57Now turning to our balance sheet metrics. On an annualized basis, adjusted return on equity and adjusted return on invested capital for the 3 month period ended March 31, 2024 were 16% 15% respectively, reflecting our highly profitable business model. As of March 31, 2024, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $65,400,000 balance sheet policy assets of $126,900,000 and outstanding long term debt at fair value of $131,400,000 During the Q1, we were pleased to successfully raise an additional $25,000,000 through our 9.875 percent fixed rate senior notes, while also repurchasing shares through our buyback program. As of May 6, 2024, we had repurchased approximately 9 In Speaker 400:12:54summary Speaker 300:12:59In summary, we are pleased with our strong results delivering a quarter of triple digit growth on our top line as well as solid profitability on an adjusted basis. We remain very excited about the growth opportunities ahead and are well positioned to execute on our long term plans. I will now turn it back to our CEO, Jay Jackson for our closing comments. Speaker 200:13:19Thanks, Bill. To sum up, we believe Abacus Life is well positioned to capitalize on a large market opportunity within a dynamic sector today. Very few other business models offer 20 years of consistent net income, a $230,000,000,000 plus in growing target market and new growth opportunities such as ABL Wealth and ABL Tech. We are proud to be a growth company that has generated consistent long term profitability. I'd like to thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Navicus Life. Speaker 200:13:52We will now field any questions. Operator00:13:56Thank you. At this time, we'll be conducting a question and answer Our first question comes from the line of Wilma Burdesh with Raymond James. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 500:14:26Hey, good morning, everyone. Could you talk a little bit about how much you currently bought back under your primary carrier relationship? Thank you. Speaker 200:14:37Thank you, Wilma. Hey, great to hear from you. Speaker 400:14:41Yes. Speaker 300:14:42The specifics on the dollar amount Speaker 600:14:43that we're Speaker 200:14:43working with on the carrier buyback program is not an actual figure that we're putting out publicly at this point just due to confidentiality in relationship to their reported earnings as well. So what I can tell you is that it's ongoing, it's been increasing and we look forward to continuing to grow that relationship and many more. Speaker 500:15:15Okay. Thank you. And then could you talk a little bit about the IRRs of the business you booked in 1Q 'twenty four and the volumes you could have generated at various IRR levels? Thank you. Speaker 200:15:27Thank you, Wilma. The IRRs that we're typically generating, the way that I like to look at it is I go right to our ROE. So if you look at our return on equity in Q1, it was at 16%. I think ROIC was around 15%, which is in line with where we're when we price and purchase any of these policies that's very much in line with where we price them at. So we haven't seen any significant degradation in returns relative to any of the policies that we're purchasing at this point. Speaker 200:15:58I think that from our position, the opportunity continues to grow. We're seeing more policies come through our platform than we have capital to purchase. So we're always continuing to seek and look for stronger sources of capital so that we can continue to purchase all of the policies that our platform is generating versus sending those directly to 3rd parties. Speaker 500:16:24Thank you. And one last one and then I'll re queue. But could you provide an update on the mutual fund launch? Thanks. Speaker 200:16:33Sure. We have filed for a 40 Act mutual fund and interval fund. That process is still happening. We're making significant progress in educating the SEC on our industry and our asset. This would be the first type of fund that the SEC has approved in this specific asset for that particular structure. Speaker 200:16:55So we're very confident based upon the progress that we're currently making and we fully expect that product to be out in 2024. But in the meantime, we're also having a lot of success with our GPLP products that we continue to raise capital for on a monthly basis and that is a yield based product and you can see that reflected inside the balance sheet. Operator00:17:26Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Securities. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 400:17:40Hey, good morning. First question is around origination capital deployed $33,300,000 And I think Jay, it's probably like the low seasonal quarter is 1Q. It kind of picks up in second half of the year. But the question is around the pipeline, like could you put to work a lot more than that? How much growth do you see in putting origination capital to work? Speaker 200:18:12Sure. Thank you, Andrew. Great to hear from you. The pipeline for us is quite strong, falling in line with historical. And I think you're very astute to pick up from if you look at 2023 and the numbers that we had put out, you start to see this progression as the calendar year progresses. Speaker 200:18:31And so we feel that when we look at the Q2 and where we are in origination position, I think one indicator is that the number that we put out, even though you saw that the origination capital deployed was flat, the number of policies was up. And in addition to that, we saw a significant increase in our direct to consumer channel, up nearly 59%, which is to me an indication of the work that we're putting into our advertising. As we said in the 4th quarter, we increased our advertising spending in the Q4 of 2023 by almost $2,000,000 and we're starting to see some of the results of that certainly in the Q1 and we believe that will continue into the second and throughout the year. Speaker 400:19:19I see. So it sounds like there's kind of a growing emphasis on direct to consumer. Would that be right? Speaker 200:19:28I think it's a growing emphasis on education across the board, right. Focusing on consumers and what we referenced there is that we're advertising on channels that would include both policyholders as well as financial professionals. A big target of our advertising are in stations like CNBC, Fox Business, where traditionally you'll see financial professionals be the primary audience and then with core news media outlets in the afternoon and evening. I think that it's starting to have a significant impact across the board that 1st and foremost, most people still aren't aware that this financial option even exists for them. And in that advertising effort, we're able to actually help improve those numbers and you're starting to see some of the results of that. Speaker 400:20:20And if I could sneak 1 or 2 more quick questions in. Just general and admin at 11,300,000 dollars I guess if I took out the stock based comp, which could kind of be a little bit lumpy, and then maybe the $800,000 of public company expense seems like that's going to be normal. But what's a good run rate for general and admin expenses in terms of trying to model that? Speaker 300:20:51Hi, Andrew, it's Bill. Thanks for the question. I think to your point, if you were to take out the stock based compensation, which was running through the total operating expenses about $5,800,000 And then if you take out the depreciation and amortization as well, I think when you remove those 2 large items that gives you a good run rate of what you would expect. I guess the one caveat I would put in there is that as we continue to see or if we continue to see pipeline and origination growth throughout the year, we'd increase staffing in order to accommodate that. Speaker 400:21:31I see. And do you envision that staffing will grow significantly as the year progresses? Speaker 300:21:42Not significantly, but I would expect that as originations increase and the investor buy the carrier buyback program continues to increase as well that we would add some staffing, but not significantly. Speaker 400:21:57Got it. Thanks so Speaker 200:22:00much. Thank you. Operator00:22:03Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Howlett with B. Riley Securities. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 600:22:11Hey, Jay. Hey, Bill. Speaker 300:22:13Hey, Matt. Speaker 600:22:15Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Hey, look, I mean, congratulations on a terrific quarter. The active management revenue was just very strong again this quarter, very consistent with last quarter. Just diving a little deeper into it, was there anything in terms of the policies you sold to 3rd parties or what you held? Speaker 600:22:34Anything just different in the quarter? Any update on margins? And then I want to ask you about holdings these things clearly have long term much better IRRs than just flipping them. So talk to me about what you're finding in value, how many you want to hold and so forth, but just a little update on margins what you sold in the quarter and so forth? Sure. Speaker 200:22:55I'll start. I'll have Bill probably weighing in a little bit too. Thanks for the question, Matt. On a margin basis, there wasn't anything really out of the ordinary with the exception that we did have some larger trading specifically back to some of our carriers. And as we saw that increase occur, that certainly improves margins. Speaker 200:23:17But what it also does is that goes to your other question, which is in relationship to to how much we would hold. So if we're selling back to, let's say, a carrier, we're going to sell that paper and not going to hold that on our balance sheet while the other ones we might hold on our balance sheet for a little bit longer. I think the way to think about our business on a go forward basis is our intent is to remain balance sheet light and keep a larger percentage of those policies, what I would say is an active management, meaning that they're in motion and realizing those returns with some of what we would deem our best ideas to let those mature a little bit longer rather than sticking to where we are today on an average hold of under 6 months to potentially being something much longer around a year or 2 on some of those better ideas. And I think as we see more capital recycled on the balance sheet, you'll start to see that increase, as the percentage of policies that we hold beyond 6 months would increase to where they are today. Speaker 200:24:15Bill, if you want to add anything to that? Speaker 300:24:18No, nothing to add. Just echoing Jay's comments. Speaker 600:24:21In other words, if you can find policies that you can hold a bit longer, they can just really appreciate, then you can turn on and sell them at a much attractive value. I mean, just sort of a way of optimizing capital. Is that how to think about it? Speaker 200:24:35It is. And in addition to that, within the first one to 3 years of any distribution curve, you're going to have some experiences where you have a few of these policies mature and those would lead to significant multiples and returns ultimately on the balance sheet. And we think that on some cases, we should be taking advantage of that versus trading those right away. So when we think about how we how these policies mature a little bit, maybe letting them agencies in a little bit longer gives us a better opportunity to pick up some of the front end of that distribution curve. But in addition to that, having them accelerate potentially in a better rate of return versus what we would potentially trade it at today. Speaker 600:25:16All else being equal, the returns of the company, the ROE should improve. I mean, if that continues to manifest itself? Speaker 200:25:23That's correct. Speaker 600:25:25Terrific. And then, look, I think you added on a little more to that baby bond you have out there. The question is what quickly given how fast you turn over capital and you can trade these things as fast as you want, what's the appetite to take on some more leverage over time? I mean, it's given your unlevered IRRs are mid at least mid teens here. I mean, it's clearly very accretive to shareholders that you continue to raise debt capital, especially at a 9%, maybe below 9%. Speaker 600:26:03Can you just comment on when you look at Jay, like how you see the balance sheet shaping up? I mean, how much capacity can you just issue debt? Speaker 200:26:14Yes. You touched on 2 issues here is that what's our excess capacity and then what's the best way to finance that excess capacity. The excess capacity that we see on a monthly basis being generated from our platform is as much as 30% to 40% more than what we're currently spending, which means that we have a significant amount of room to deploy more capital. Now the question is, how do you best finance that opportunity? Is it done with debt? Speaker 200:26:38Leverage is interesting. We're certainly not taking anything off the table, but potentially there could be the opportunity where we use some equity financing where we don't have the interest carry, but at ROEs in the mid teens and higher something depending on the period, equity financing is also a very appealing option, which also addresses more specifically our float and liquidity of the stock. So, I think everyone saw on Friday, there was a public filing where we're considering and looking at that option now. Speaker 600:27:09Right. And some of those warrants could get exercised, those that could be capital into the company and so forth. It makes total sense and we look forward to for more capital and more growth in the company. And just one final question, maybe I missed it. I love the radio ads. Speaker 600:27:25I see you on TV, Jay. So how much clearly the marketing is having the impact. Anything to earmark terms of what we can expect this year in spend because clearly it's having an impact? Speaker 200:27:36Yes. Right now, our intent is to continue to increase our spend and do the marketing and continue the marketing in a smart and thoughtful way. We are doing things like a little bit different in the sense of adding to that marketing through making an open Investor Day and Longevity Summit where we're bringing in some of the top professionals in the space of lifespan and longevity to really drive that education home that you should be placing a value on your lifespan and how that value then correlates to the value of the underlying financial products such as your life insurance policy or other financial services that you might have. You've heard me talk frequently about in the last two calls about what's happening in our ABL Wealth as we added say and what's also going to be happening within our ABL tech division, utilizing that lifespan data and mortality verification data to help optimize pension funds and endowments. I think it's going to continue to be a growing sector with what we do. Speaker 200:28:35So our advertising in general is certainly becoming more broad. And right now, as we look at our cost of acquisition per customer per lead, we have not gotten to that point where we're starting to see that cost change significantly. What that means is that there's a lot of run room here still to do in advertising and we're still seeing effectively dollar for dollar on the amount of money that we spend in advertising to the success that we have in acquiring new policies. But also potentially gathering new clients within our ABL wealth channel. Speaker 600:29:12Terrific. I'm sorry, what was the day of that summit or that Investor Day? You have that out already, correct? Speaker 200:29:18June 13. So, we made that announcement on the call here today. It's going to be here in Orlando. We've got some again some of the top speakers and professionals. We'd love to have you come, Matt, and for those on the call. Speaker 200:29:30And that'll be a live event. In addition to that, we'll have a live stream. So very exciting and again broadening this message, we expect to have media sources there as well. And it's a type event that we don't have sponsors, it's just Abacus and we're talking about Abacus as exciting future as the Investor Day and then we're talking about how all of this lifespan data can be utilized in educating consumers and financial professionals across the country. Speaker 600:29:59Great. Look forward to attending. Speaker 200:30:02Awesome. We look forward to seeing you. Operator00:30:06Thank you. Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Wilma Burtis with Raymond James. Please proceed with your question. Speaker 500:30:14Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my follow ups. Nice hires in the quarter. Are there any other areas of management you expect to build out going forward? Thanks. Speaker 200:30:25Thanks, Wilma. Thank you. And yes, we are very proud of the new hires we have, both very successful people who had outstanding careers in other firms and honestly we're grateful to have them join our team. As we continue to expand, we anticipate adding very strategic personnel, particularly in the ABL Wealth channel. When it comes to the life insurance division, where we're acquiring policies, as Bill highlighted, we do plan on continuing to expand the underwriting in that division as those relationships go. Speaker 200:31:01We've solved an algorithm that helps us understand how much labor we need to meet the increased demand of policy origination as well. So we do expand the the thing to think about when we're looking at labor in general is that we add it based upon need in potential future growth. So it makes sense to us that we would add Atlanta in our capital markets as we're really taking a look at things like what are some of the strategic partnerships that we could have on a go forward basis either through partnership or through acquisition and then you have Faye who's really taken the lead in our ABL wealth channel working with RIAs and advisors educating them on everything that we do including our financial products. Speaker 500:31:51Okay. Thank you. And then last one for me. Have there been any additional opportunities to deploy Abaqus Tech that you've identified early in the year? And could you talk a little bit about the pipeline going forward for Abaqus Tech as well? Speaker 200:32:05Thanks. Sure. Within AbacusTech or ABLTech, we are in several what they call test runs with large pension funds as well as very large reinsurers and others. As we're entering that asset, they want to have more confirmation of the data and those have been very, very successful in some of those initial tests. So we're starting to see that now where we're moving towards full time sign ups of those companies. Speaker 200:32:33So as this moves, we expect that between now and the end of the year, the ABL tech revenue could ultimately end up being quite material over the next 12 months to 18 months. And so we're very excited about the progression there and the overall market feedback in that division. Speaker 500:32:52Okay. Thank you. Speaker 200:32:55Thank you. Operator00:32:57Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the floor back to Mr. Jackson for any final comments. Speaker 200:33:06Great. Thank you to everyone. We could not be again more thrilled and excited about the opportunity in the direction of Abacus and the future of Abacus, highlighted by a strong Q1 and what we expect to be a sustainable and consistent model. We look forward to speaking to you on our next call and for those who might have any additional questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a great day. Operator00:33:35Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you forRead morePowered by