Live Earnings Conference Call: F&G Annuities & Life will host a live Q1 2025 earnings call on May 8, 2025 at 9:00AM ET. Follow this link to get details and listen to F&G Annuities & Life's Q1 2025 earnings call when it goes live. Get details. NYSE:FG F&G Annuities & Life Q1 2024 Earnings Report $35.83 +0.23 (+0.65%) Closing price 05/7/2025 03:59 PM EasternExtended Trading$35.90 +0.07 (+0.18%) As of 05:41 AM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast F&G Annuities & Life EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.86Consensus EPS $0.89Beat/MissMissed by -$0.03One Year Ago EPSN/AF&G Annuities & Life Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$1.57 billionExpected Revenue$1.21 billionBeat/MissBeat by +$356.00 millionYoY Revenue GrowthN/AF&G Annuities & Life Announcement DetailsQuarterQ1 2024Date5/8/2024TimeN/AConference Call DateThursday, May 9, 2024Conference Call Time9:00AM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by F&G Annuities & Life Q1 2024 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrMay 9, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, and welcome to F and G's First Quarter Earnings Call. During today's presentation, all parties will be in a listen only mode. Following the presentation, the conference will be opened for questions with instructions to follow at that time. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy Parker, SVP, Investor and External Relations. Operator00:00:30Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:33Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome, everyone. Joining me today are Chris Blunt, Chief Executive Officer and Wendy Young, Chief Financial Officer. We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks. Today's earnings call may include forward looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, which do not guarantee future events or performance. Speaker 100:00:55We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events or changes in strategy. Please refer to our most recent SEC filings for a discussion of the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied. This morning's discussion also includes non GAAP financial measures that we believe may be meaningful to investors. Non GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP where required in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings release, financial supplement and investor presentation, all of which are available on the company's website. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for webcast replay at fglife.com. Speaker 100:01:40It will also be available through telephone replay beginning today at 1 p. M. Eastern Time through May 16, 2024. And now, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Chris Lund. Speaker 200:01:52Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us to discuss our Q1 results. I'm pleased to share that we're off to a terrific start in 2024, having delivered another strong quarter as we execute on our strategic initiatives. We continue to focus on our growth strategy, maintaining a disciplined and balanced capital management process and diversifying our earnings into more capital and strong demand for our products in the volatile and higher rate environment. Coming off record sales in the 4th quarter, we reported gross sales of $3,500,000,000 in the first quarter, our 2nd highest on record, which was up 6% over the first quarter of 2023, which was the 3rd highest on record. Speaker 200:02:44Retail channel sales through our agent, bank and broker dealer channels were 2.8 $1,000,000,000 in the Q1. We reported record fixed indexed guaranteed annuity sales leading to a higher percentage of net sales retained as compared to the sequential quarter. We also began the rollout of our new registered index linked annuity or Ryla product in the quarter, which we expect will become a significant contributor to sales over the next few years. In fact, industry Ryla sales were nearly $45,000,000,000 last year, which is a record level. We believe our product offering is differentiated in the market and will uniquely meet the needs of a relatively younger demographic. Speaker 200:03:28Pension risk transfer sales set a new first quarter record at $584,000,000 reflecting a healthy pipeline out of the gate this year. As announced, we have crossed the $5,000,000,000 mark for cumulative pension risk transfer sales with over 100,000 plan participants. This milestone is especially impressive given our market entry was in mid-twenty 21, just under 3 years ago. We rounded out gross sales with $105,000,000 of FHLB funding agreements in the quarter. We continue to monitor opportunities to return to the market for funding agreement backed notes or FABN issuances, although conditions remain challenging in the Q1. Speaker 200:04:12Net sales were $2,300,000,000 in the 1st quarter, reflecting accretive third party flow reinsurance on 90% of our MYGA sales, in line with our capital targets. As a reminder, flow reinsurance generates fee based earnings and frees up incremental capital to be deployed to the highest returning retained business. As noted, the higher interest rates have been driving strong product demand over the last few quarters, while also leading to a higher level of index annuity surrenders. Fixed index annuity terminations are up over the prior year quarter as expected, although relatively in line with the Q4 of 2023. Our new business continues to well outpace surrenders providing positive net cash flows and our in force annuity account balance continues to steadily grow. Speaker 200:05:01As a reminder, for insurance companies like F and G, surrenders typically provide a boost to earnings from higher surrender charge fees and freed up capital from the policy lapse. Further, our record new business volumes effectively replaced older contracts with newer contracts, having higher surrender charges and longer surrender periods, further improving the liability profile. We have profitably grown retained assets under management to a record $49,800,000,000 at March 31. This is an increase of $4,500,000,000 or 10% over the Q1 of 2023 and driven by net new business flows, stable in force retention and net debt and equity proceeds over the last 12 months. Retained AUM was up nearly $700,000,000 over the 4th quarter of 2023, primarily driven by net new business flows. Speaker 200:05:57AUM before flow reinsurance was 58 $1,000,000,000 adjusting for the approximately $8,200,000,000 of cumulative new business ceded. Looking ahead, we continue to target gross sales growth at a double digit clip, while managing net sales retained to a level that continues to grow our assets under management. I would also highlight that the new Department of Labor rules have been released. We view the new structure as manageable and are prepared to make necessary compliance enhancements when they become effective. As a reminder, the industry has been monitoring this development over the past 8 years and making enhancements to comply with the NAIC state based best interest regulation. Speaker 200:06:40Our IMOs are very sophisticated firms and many have their own RIAs and broker dealers. Approximately 21% of our total gross sales were from producers that do not have a registered license, with 15% being from qualified accounts, which we expect to have the most impact. Overall, we do not expect the momentum in our business to be impacted, although we do worry that it will discourage agents from serving middle market clients. Our investment portfolio is well diversified, actively managed through our selective de risking programs and well positioned to perform in varying market conditions. Importantly, our invested assets are well matched to our clean and stable liability profile. Speaker 200:07:23Our fixed income yield excluding alternative investment volatility and variable investment income has expanded to 4.56% in the first quarter as compared to 4.33% in the Q1 of 2023. This reflects upside from higher yields on new investments and floating rate assets. The portfolio remains high quality with 95% of fixed maturities being investment grade and credit related impairments were a modest two basis points in the first quarter. We have hedged nearly 60 percent of our $10,000,000,000 in floating rate asset portfolio due to the potential for interest rate decreases in the future. This is locked in about 185 basis points of incremental yield beyond what was originally priced in and translates to approximately 15 to 20 basis points of annual incremental investment margin above our pricing over the next 3 to 5 years. Speaker 200:08:23I'd like to put a brief spotlight on our $2,600,000,000 alternatives LP portfolio, which has performed extremely well since inception. The portfolio has generated an average historical return of 13% comprised of return on investment, mark to market and return of capital and returns have been less volatile than the S and P 500 index. Since inception, we've received back nearly 1.3 $1,000,000,000 or almost half the capital we invested since 2017, providing an approximate 7% yield on distributions alone. And we've experienced approximately 30% appreciation in the value of capital that we invested since 2017, including both distributions and residual value for the portfolio, which is expected to grow as the Alts portfolio matures. Turning next to our results for the quarter. Speaker 200:09:17Excluding significant items, we delivered adjusted net earnings of $154,000,000 which generated an adjusted ROA of 125 basis points and we reported an adjusted ROE of 11%. Notably, our ROA is above our 110 basis point baseline that we shared at our Investor Day back in October. Wendy will get into the results more in a few minutes, but the quarter once again demonstrates that we are positioned to perform across market cycles and that we can consistently deliver strong results with attractive and expanding margins over time. We have plenty of momentum to continue to deliver sustainable asset growth from our retail and pension risk transfer growth strategies and ongoing margin expansion from enhanced investment margin opportunities, operational scale benefits and fee based earnings from accretive flow reinsurance. We are also well positioned to diversify our earnings given the strong growth of our middle market life insurance business and owned distribution strategies. Speaker 200:10:22Our strategic investment in owned distribution stakes will generate a meaningfully higher risk adjusted return on capital than retained business and provides a diversifying source of earnings. Owned distribution further strengthens our relationships with key partners. And with industry consolidation underway, we believe we are uniquely positioned to partner as a distribution consolidator. To date, we've invested $530,000,000 and we expect EBITDA for the portfolio to be $45,000,000 to $50,000,000 in 2024 with double digit growth over the medium term. Wrapping up, I am very proud of our team's accomplishments. Speaker 200:11:01The business is hitting on all cylinders and we remain focused on our strategic priorities, fulfilling the commitments we made in connection with our Investor Day and creating long term value for all of our stakeholders. Let me now turn the call over to Wendy to provide further details on F and G's Q1 financial highlights. Speaker 300:11:20Thanks, Chris. We are very pleased with F and G's overall financial performance for the Q1. I'd like to point out before we get into our results that we've updated our quarterly financial supplement this quarter to highlight results from our core product margin, low reinsurance fees and owned distribution among other enhancements. Now starting with earnings. Adjusted net earnings attributable to common shareholders for the Q1 were $108,000,000 or $0.86 per share and included $100,000,000 or $0.77 per share of investment income from alternative investments and $6,000,000 or $0.05 per share of CLO redemption gains and bond prepayment income. Speaker 300:12:01Alternative investments investment income based on management's long term expected return of approximately 10% was 152,000,000 dollars or $1.18 per share. Adjusted net earnings for the Q1 of 2023 were $61,000,000 or $0.49 per share and included $99,000,000 or $0.79 per share of investment income from alternative investments, partially offset by $37,000,000 or $0.30 per share tax valuation allowance expense. Alternative investments investment income based on management's long term expected return approximately 10% was $132,000,000 or $1.05 per share. For comparison, adjusting for these significant items in both periods, adjusted net earnings were $154,000,000 in the Q1 of 2024, up 18% from $131,000,000 in the Q1 of 'twenty 3. This increase reflects asset growth and diversification of margin from accretive flow reinsurance fees and owned distribution margin, which were partially offset by an increase in interest expense due to planned capital market activity and higher operating costs in line with the growth in sales and assets and continued investments in our operating platform. Speaker 300:13:15Our adjusted return on assets, excluding significant items, was 125 basis points in the quarter, comfortably above our 110 basis point baseline as shared at Investor Day in October of 2023. The current quarter includes basis points of favorable actuarial liability movement that is within our expected range and reflects the effects of our methodology, which can be lumpy for inter quarter variability. Next, turning to our balance sheet. We ended the quarter with F and G Equity attributable to common shareholders excluding AOCI of $5,200,000,000 or $41.10 per share with 126,000,000 common shares outstanding as of March 31. There are a couple of pages in our investor presentation providing an analysis of book value per share. Speaker 300:14:03F and G's debt to capitalization ratio excluding AOCI was 24% as of March 31. This is in line with our long term target of 25 percent and includes the $250,000,000 preferred stock issuance in January 2024. Our annualized interest expense is approximately $120,000,000 or roughly 6.6 percent blended yield on the $1,800,000,000 of total debt outstanding. We continue to target holding company cash and invested assets at 2x fixed charge coverage. Our strong capitalization supports both growth and distributable cash. Speaker 300:14:39During the Q1, F and G paid $26,000,000 of common dividends and a $4,000,000 dividend on its preferred stock held by FNF. F and G is well positioned to self fund its continued growth with positive and growing in force capital generation, available debt capacity as our balance sheet delevers with book value growth over time and ample opportunity for future reinsurance programs. For 2024 specifically, our stable profitable in force is expected to generate more than $1,000,000,000 in capital and we have strong capital generation in the range of $500,000,000 from existing reinsurance arrangements. In summary, we have great momentum in executing on our strategy and delivered a terrific Q1. In addition, we continue to maintain strong capitalization and financial flexibility to successfully execute on our growth strategy. Speaker 300:15:31This concludes our prepared remarks. Let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions. Operator00:15:39Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be conducting a question and answer Our first question is from the line of John Barnidge with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:16:20Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the RYLA product. How should we be thinking about contribution in 2024? And how meaningful was it in the Q1 that it was rolled out? Speaker 400:16:33Thanks. Speaker 200:16:35Sure. Thanks, John. This is Chris. I would say not very meaningful in the quarter. We rolled out literally with 1 or 2 distribution partners. Speaker 200:16:45We've got a number of additional partners in the queue that I will expect that I expect will roll out in the Q2 and Q3. So I don't think this is going to be a big needle mover for us this year, but it should be meaningful for us as we head into 2025. And given the environment right now, we've got plenty of sales opportunities. So yes, I would say it'd be relatively modest this year and, but should start becoming a meaningful contributor next year. Speaker 400:17:17Thank you for that. And my follow-up question, Chris, competitive dynamics in the PRT market, you talked about finally crossing a big threshold in sales to the cumulative basis and some participants have talked about this year being a bit more competitive in that institutional product. Speaker 200:17:36Yes. I wouldn't say that we've seen a dramatic change. I mean, obviously, it was a tremendous that was a record Q1 for us. So the team has executed really well. We tend to be super selective in terms of what we bid on. Speaker 200:17:49So the process is pretty thorough for deciding where we even crank up the engine to bid. And then when we bid, we've had a decent hit rate there. So I think it will always be competitive because it's such an attractive market, but obviously still getting our fair share and haven't seen a big change in terms of return dynamics. Speaker 400:18:13Thank you. Operator00:18:16Thank Our next question is from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:18:32Hey, good morning. Thanks. So the ROA baseline in the quarter, I guess, adjusted for alts was 125 basis points and that's above your recent target of 110. So maybe just hoping you could talk about if you see that at a sustainable level going forward and maybe the drivers of a little bit of that outperformance would be great. Speaker 200:18:49Yes, I'll start and I know Wendy will jump in. I think there was probably a little bit of positive tailwind to that, but not a lot. So yes, we feel really good about what we laid out in our Investor Day was a baseline of 110 basis points, and we thought we could grow that 15 to as much as 30 basis points through a few levers, optimizing the investment portfolio that's feeling quite optimistic for us right now. Flow reinsurance, you're already seeing the impact of that. And then some operating scale as we continue to grow. Speaker 200:19:25So, yes, we feel pretty good about that. And I don't know, Wendy, if you want to walk through maybe a little more of the dynamics of the quarter itself. Speaker 300:19:31Sure. And I'll even go back to last quarter, Wes. There was based on our reserving methodologies, we're going to get a little bit of fluctuation quarter to quarter. Last quarter, it was a little bit of a hit. This quarter, it's a little bit of positive. Speaker 300:19:50So we're basically indicated in the script that there's about a 5 basis points maybe of positive noise in that mechanics that we have. So we feel really good about expansion from here. And in addition to what Chris said about flow and scalability, owned distribution really popped in the quarters and that definitely is sustainable. Speaker 400:20:17Got it. Thanks. And I just wanted to maybe follow-up on John's question on PRT. I think one of your private equityinsurance peers made some comments on their earnings call this quarter that there's some recent lawsuits that Speaker 200:20:28are likely to chill some Speaker 400:20:29of the volumes in the PRT market in 2024. And they also mentioned that they said spreads weren't very attractive this year versus last year. So I just wanted to get any additional perspective on if you think you could see some lower volumes or if that's not the case and if you still see decent spread in that market? Speaker 200:20:46Sure. Yes, I think there's clearly the potential for that to cast a bit of a pall over the market. So we're watching for it. We haven't really seen that yet. I mean, there are quite a few deals in the queue for us and everybody to go bid on. Speaker 200:21:01To the spread piece, it's really hard to compare across firms because the single biggest driver is, do you have access to unique longer duration originated credit? And if you do, we're still earning good spreads. If you don't, then it's tough. It's going to be difficult. And that's everything from triple net leases to infrastructure debt, etcetera. Speaker 200:21:23So, it can be very bespoke asset specific types of opportunities. And so again, I think it's kind of hard to generalize across the industry. But yes, it's something that we clearly are on. We'll look out for and raising our profile on everything from how we use reinsurance to transparency about everything that we do. Speaker 400:21:51Thanks, Chris. And maybe just one more on funding agreements, but you did a little bit of FHLB borrowing in quarter. You mentioned that conditions were challenging for FABN in the Q1. I think there were some peers that kind of returned to that market, but just wanted to get your perspective on the rest of the year if it looks more attractive in your outlook for FAB in Michigan? Speaker 200:22:09Yes, I think it does. It's a good environment right now to be an issuer. So I think during the quarter, it was on the cusp. I think it's looking definitely looking more attractive right now. Wendy, if you want to add to that. Speaker 300:22:23Yes. I was just going to say we monitor it, Wes, just to see how we're doing from the spread perspective. Our rating is a little bit lower than some of the ones that have gone out in the Q1 and that impacts the spread. But we are monitoring and it looks like it's getting better every day. Speaker 200:22:44Yes. And one other thing I would say was is obviously we're trying to maximize return on capital, right? That's the goal. And so right now, given the attractive opportunities in retail and PRT, so we look at all of them as funding sources and cost of funds and we're Wendy and I are trying to optimize that at all times. But looking at the quarter, I actually walking around feeling like this might have been the best quarter we ever had. Speaker 200:23:11Inflows continue to be strong. The mix was really positive. So the mix shift towards FIAs from MYGA, obviously FIA is our most profitable product. It's a longer duration product. So we're walking in spread for longer and we are already starting to see, as you said, expansion on the margin front. Speaker 200:23:33So never declare victory in the 3rd inning of the game, but relative to what we put out there for Investor Day, we're off to a really good start and feeling really good about it. Thanks. Operator00:23:49Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist Securities. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:24:01Yes. Thank you. Good morning. Sorry if I might have you might have touched on this. I joined late. Speaker 500:24:07But I think you'd commented how you're optimistic on RYALA sales that should become a bigger part of your mix. Could you talk about kind of how you see the long term dynamic between Ryla's in fixed indexed annuities and how your distribution kind of matches up to support 1 or the other, how it may evolve over time to support the Ryla sales if it needs to? Speaker 200:24:37Sure. Yes. No, great question, Mark. So, I'd say a couple of things. If you think about a fixed index annuity, it's got a floor of 0 and an opportunity to participate in markets, but by definition, it's got a capped upside. Speaker 200:24:53Ryla allows someone to take a risk level below 0, right, typically in the form of a buffer, say 5%, 10%, even 20% of downside absorbed by the carrier, which just allows for a lot more upside. So typically, it's a younger demographic. It's someone either with a higher risk tolerance or in many cases a younger demographic. So it's a market we've never played in at all, right? And so all of this is greenfield and really should be incremental sales and incremental margin for us. Speaker 200:25:26So and then the other from a distribution channel perspective, not surprisingly, Ryla tends to be more popular in the broker dealer channel, whereas FIAs tend to be more popular in the IMO and in the bank channels. And so, a lot of our activity in adding distribution partners starting a couple of years ago have been to add more broker dealers in anticipation of the RYLO launch. So, hopefully that helps a little bit, bit younger demographic, client with a higher risk tolerance. I've said this before, it opens up a massive pool because you have to ask the question of, yes, everybody should probably own some mutual funds if they've got a very long term time horizon and some equities, but that comes with a tremendous amount of volatility. And so I think a lot of people like the peace of mind of knowing that there is some constrained outcome set. Speaker 200:26:25And so yes, this is a category that I think for the industry is going to be really attractive. But lastly, I will say it's playing to the same strengths. Again, we're just buying a different colored option with a wider band of outcomes. But it's at the end of the day, it's a spread based product and the key drivers that have made us successful in the FIA space should translate in the Ryla space. Speaker 500:26:52And then I think a somewhat competitor of yours has talked a bit more about integrating their annuity products into these retirement dated funds that they're starting to see some movement there. Can you talk on that opportunity, whether that's something you're pursuing directly as another distribution channel source of growth? Speaker 200:27:25Yes, I would say it's not top of the queue for us. There are a lot of, as you know, complications within and challenges within that market. It's been kind of a slow boat coming. I do think the products can have a big impact for society to be able to do that and for folks to be able to participate in their 401 plans. But I would say right now with all of the distribution opportunities we have both in institutional and retail that feels like a better priority for us. Speaker 200:27:56But, we continue to look at it and want to stay close to it. If appropriate, we think that's a market we could compete in if we choose to. Speaker 500:28:06Yes. Would you think the economics at this point are not quite there yet or is it just there's not as much demand in that 401 market? Speaker 200:28:18Yes, I'm probably not the best expert on this topic, although I studied it years ago at a different firm quite intensively. I think the biggest issues are record keeping. So it's kind of the expense and complication of getting planned sponsors to adopt it and more importantly record keepers to pay for all of the enhancements to make it work. And then the other is, for it to be get broad based acceptance, you do end up with a lot of smaller accounts. Now that can be solved for through some sort of omnibus structure. Speaker 200:28:53But yes, it's just a little more complicated. I would also think carriers with a big recognized brand name and or retirement plans presence of their own probably will have a little bit of a leg up there. Hopefully that helps. Speaker 500:29:10Yes, understood. Yes, it sure does. Thank you. Appreciate it. Operator00:29:16Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:29:24Hey, thanks for taking my follow-up. I just had a question on the capital consumption on the RYLA product versus an FIA or OMIGA. I imagine there's the same C4 charge on the premium. But when you look at RBC, is the RYLA product favorable relative to a fixed annuity sale or is there not much of a difference there? Speaker 200:29:43Wendy, you want to tackle that one? Speaker 300:29:45Yes. Sure. Thank you. Yes, there's not much of a difference. As Chris said, it's the basically the difference between the products is the option that we purchase and there's really no difference in the capital charge on that. Speaker 400:30:00Okay. Great. And then just maybe just following up on the DOL and the final rule, obviously your new business origination capabilities are much more diversified than the last time we saw this. But I think you mentioned 15% or so of gross sales might be the most impacted. Can you maybe just give us any additional perspective on what changed this time around with this version? Speaker 400:30:20And if there's any way to kind of dimension the potential expense impact, that'd be great. Speaker 200:30:27Yes. I mean, the honest answer is not much changed. And I think that's the frustration of the industry is that it's eerily similar to the role that was put forth before. So there will be enhanced compliance expense. I don't think any of it is going to rise to a level that's going to cause us to question the forecast that we've put out, etcetera. Speaker 200:30:52So I put it more in the it's annoying. A number of people feel that it's unnecessary given all the other regulations that are in place. The bigger concern that I have, which I mentioned in the notes, is it could be an impediment for agents serving the middle market and just moving upstream. I do think it's going to take a time it's going to take a while for that impact to be felt. And so again, given we probably have more probably we have more sales opportunity than capital right now. Speaker 200:31:30That's the constraint is not opportunity for sales. So again, there's nothing in this that's going to cause us to change our plans. The concern on my end is it will be impactful to certain agents. And I think unfortunately, it will be disproportionately impactful to agents that are serving the middle market. I don't know Wendy, if there's anything you want to add to that. Speaker 300:31:51I think I would just add, Wes, the biggest difference is that F and G is different, right? Back in the original rule, we weren't in the bank and broker dealer market. So that has significantly improved those percentages that Chris was talking about of where we would be impacted. Speaker 200:32:12Yes. And then we also weren't in the PRT or FABN market. So if you go back 5 years ago, we were doing probably $3,000,000,000 of sales. It was all through independent agents. And now as you see, we're $13,000,000,000 plus and we continue to grow the IMO space. Speaker 200:32:29And a number of those IMOs, I think, actually will thrive during this because they're fairly sophisticated. It may force independent agents to need to affiliate with 1 IMO versus multiple IMOs. So I think the best players actually look at this and say, we can build some nice moats for ourselves adapting to this. But there's just a lot of agents and a lot of smaller agents calling on middle market clients that, this is going to be quite disruptive for. Speaker 400:33:06Great. Thank you. Operator00:33:11Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this will conclude our question and answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Chris Blunt, for his closing remarks. Chris? Speaker 200:33:25Great. Thanks, everybody. We're really pleased with our overall results, which demonstrate the competitive strengths and resilience of our business. F and G is positioned to perform through the cycle and we're successfully executing on our strategic priorities to generate continued growth and profitability. Thanks for joining us. Speaker 200:33:42We appreciate your interest in F and G and look forward to updating you on our Q2 earnings call. Operator00:33:49The conference of F and G has now concluded. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallF&G Annuities & Life Q1 202400:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) F&G Annuities & Life Earnings HeadlinesF&G Annuities & Life Ranked Among Top Pension Risk Transfer Market Leaders For Fourth Consecutive YearMay 7 at 4:25 PM | prnewswire.comFNF Reports First Quarter 2025 Financial ResultsMay 7 at 4:17 PM | prnewswire.comTrump wipes out trillions overnight…Is there anybody more powerful than Donald Trump right now? In a single tariff announcement, he wiped out nearly $5 trillion in wealth from the S&P 500 and $6.4 trillion from the Dow Jones… Not to mention the countless trillions of dollars lost in every market around the world… leaving the major political powers scrambling in fear of Trump’s next move.May 8, 2025 | Porter & Company (Ad)F&G Annuities & Life Reports First Quarter 2025 ResultsMay 7 at 4:15 PM | prnewswire.comF&G Annuities & Life Announces First Quarter 2025 Earnings Release and Conference CallApril 23, 2025 | prnewswire.comFidelity National Financial Announces First Quarter 2025 Earnings Release and Conference CallApril 23, 2025 | prnewswire.comSee More F&G Annuities & Life Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like F&G Annuities & Life? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on F&G Annuities & Life and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About F&G Annuities & LifeF&G Annuities & Life (NYSE:FG) engages in the provision of fixed annuity and life insurance products. It specializes in life insurance, annuities, retirement planning and wealth transfer. The company was founded in 1959 and is headquartered in Des Moines, IA.View F&G Annuities & Life ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Disney Stock Jumps on Earnings—Is the Magic Sustainable?Archer Stock Eyes Q1 Earnings After UAE UpdatesFord Motor Stock Rises After Earnings, But Momentum May Not Last Broadcom Stock Gets a Lift on Hyperscaler Earnings & CapEx BoostPalantir Stock Drops Despite Stellar Earnings: What's Next?Is Eli Lilly a Buy After Weak Earnings and CVS-Novo Partnership?Is Reddit Stock a Buy, Sell, or Hold After Earnings Release? Upcoming Earnings Enbridge (5/9/2025)Petróleo Brasileiro S.A. - Petrobras (5/12/2025)Simon Property Group (5/12/2025)JD.com (5/13/2025)NU (5/13/2025)Sony Group (5/13/2025)SEA (5/13/2025)Cisco Systems (5/14/2025)Toyota Motor (5/14/2025)NetEase (5/15/2025) Get 30 Days of MarketBeat All Access for Free Sign up for MarketBeat All Access to gain access to MarketBeat's full suite of research tools. Start Your 30-Day Trial MarketBeat All Access Features Best-in-Class Portfolio Monitoring Get personalized stock ideas. Compare portfolio to indices. Check stock news, ratings, SEC filings, and more. Stock Ideas and Recommendations See daily stock ideas from top analysts. Receive short-term trading ideas from MarketBeat. Identify trending stocks on social media. Advanced Stock Screeners and Research Tools Use our seven stock screeners to find suitable stocks. Stay informed with MarketBeat's real-time news. Export data to Excel for personal analysis. Sign in to your free account to enjoy these benefits In-depth profiles and analysis for 20,000 public companies. Real-time analyst ratings, insider transactions, earnings data, and more. Our daily ratings and market update email newsletter. Sign in to your free account to enjoy all that MarketBeat has to offer. Sign In Create Account Your Email Address: Email Address Required Your Password: Password Required Log In or Sign in with Facebook Sign in with Google Forgot your password? Your Email Address: Please enter your email address. Please enter a valid email address Choose a Password: Please enter your password. Your password must be at least 8 characters long and contain at least 1 number, 1 letter, and 1 special character. Create My Account (Free) or Sign in with Facebook Sign in with Google By creating a free account, you agree to our terms of service. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, and welcome to F and G's First Quarter Earnings Call. During today's presentation, all parties will be in a listen only mode. Following the presentation, the conference will be opened for questions with instructions to follow at that time. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy Parker, SVP, Investor and External Relations. Operator00:00:30Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:33Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome, everyone. Joining me today are Chris Blunt, Chief Executive Officer and Wendy Young, Chief Financial Officer. We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks. Today's earnings call may include forward looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, which do not guarantee future events or performance. Speaker 100:00:55We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events or changes in strategy. Please refer to our most recent SEC filings for a discussion of the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied. This morning's discussion also includes non GAAP financial measures that we believe may be meaningful to investors. Non GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP where required in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings release, financial supplement and investor presentation, all of which are available on the company's website. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for webcast replay at fglife.com. Speaker 100:01:40It will also be available through telephone replay beginning today at 1 p. M. Eastern Time through May 16, 2024. And now, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Chris Lund. Speaker 200:01:52Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us to discuss our Q1 results. I'm pleased to share that we're off to a terrific start in 2024, having delivered another strong quarter as we execute on our strategic initiatives. We continue to focus on our growth strategy, maintaining a disciplined and balanced capital management process and diversifying our earnings into more capital and strong demand for our products in the volatile and higher rate environment. Coming off record sales in the 4th quarter, we reported gross sales of $3,500,000,000 in the first quarter, our 2nd highest on record, which was up 6% over the first quarter of 2023, which was the 3rd highest on record. Speaker 200:02:44Retail channel sales through our agent, bank and broker dealer channels were 2.8 $1,000,000,000 in the Q1. We reported record fixed indexed guaranteed annuity sales leading to a higher percentage of net sales retained as compared to the sequential quarter. We also began the rollout of our new registered index linked annuity or Ryla product in the quarter, which we expect will become a significant contributor to sales over the next few years. In fact, industry Ryla sales were nearly $45,000,000,000 last year, which is a record level. We believe our product offering is differentiated in the market and will uniquely meet the needs of a relatively younger demographic. Speaker 200:03:28Pension risk transfer sales set a new first quarter record at $584,000,000 reflecting a healthy pipeline out of the gate this year. As announced, we have crossed the $5,000,000,000 mark for cumulative pension risk transfer sales with over 100,000 plan participants. This milestone is especially impressive given our market entry was in mid-twenty 21, just under 3 years ago. We rounded out gross sales with $105,000,000 of FHLB funding agreements in the quarter. We continue to monitor opportunities to return to the market for funding agreement backed notes or FABN issuances, although conditions remain challenging in the Q1. Speaker 200:04:12Net sales were $2,300,000,000 in the 1st quarter, reflecting accretive third party flow reinsurance on 90% of our MYGA sales, in line with our capital targets. As a reminder, flow reinsurance generates fee based earnings and frees up incremental capital to be deployed to the highest returning retained business. As noted, the higher interest rates have been driving strong product demand over the last few quarters, while also leading to a higher level of index annuity surrenders. Fixed index annuity terminations are up over the prior year quarter as expected, although relatively in line with the Q4 of 2023. Our new business continues to well outpace surrenders providing positive net cash flows and our in force annuity account balance continues to steadily grow. Speaker 200:05:01As a reminder, for insurance companies like F and G, surrenders typically provide a boost to earnings from higher surrender charge fees and freed up capital from the policy lapse. Further, our record new business volumes effectively replaced older contracts with newer contracts, having higher surrender charges and longer surrender periods, further improving the liability profile. We have profitably grown retained assets under management to a record $49,800,000,000 at March 31. This is an increase of $4,500,000,000 or 10% over the Q1 of 2023 and driven by net new business flows, stable in force retention and net debt and equity proceeds over the last 12 months. Retained AUM was up nearly $700,000,000 over the 4th quarter of 2023, primarily driven by net new business flows. Speaker 200:05:57AUM before flow reinsurance was 58 $1,000,000,000 adjusting for the approximately $8,200,000,000 of cumulative new business ceded. Looking ahead, we continue to target gross sales growth at a double digit clip, while managing net sales retained to a level that continues to grow our assets under management. I would also highlight that the new Department of Labor rules have been released. We view the new structure as manageable and are prepared to make necessary compliance enhancements when they become effective. As a reminder, the industry has been monitoring this development over the past 8 years and making enhancements to comply with the NAIC state based best interest regulation. Speaker 200:06:40Our IMOs are very sophisticated firms and many have their own RIAs and broker dealers. Approximately 21% of our total gross sales were from producers that do not have a registered license, with 15% being from qualified accounts, which we expect to have the most impact. Overall, we do not expect the momentum in our business to be impacted, although we do worry that it will discourage agents from serving middle market clients. Our investment portfolio is well diversified, actively managed through our selective de risking programs and well positioned to perform in varying market conditions. Importantly, our invested assets are well matched to our clean and stable liability profile. Speaker 200:07:23Our fixed income yield excluding alternative investment volatility and variable investment income has expanded to 4.56% in the first quarter as compared to 4.33% in the Q1 of 2023. This reflects upside from higher yields on new investments and floating rate assets. The portfolio remains high quality with 95% of fixed maturities being investment grade and credit related impairments were a modest two basis points in the first quarter. We have hedged nearly 60 percent of our $10,000,000,000 in floating rate asset portfolio due to the potential for interest rate decreases in the future. This is locked in about 185 basis points of incremental yield beyond what was originally priced in and translates to approximately 15 to 20 basis points of annual incremental investment margin above our pricing over the next 3 to 5 years. Speaker 200:08:23I'd like to put a brief spotlight on our $2,600,000,000 alternatives LP portfolio, which has performed extremely well since inception. The portfolio has generated an average historical return of 13% comprised of return on investment, mark to market and return of capital and returns have been less volatile than the S and P 500 index. Since inception, we've received back nearly 1.3 $1,000,000,000 or almost half the capital we invested since 2017, providing an approximate 7% yield on distributions alone. And we've experienced approximately 30% appreciation in the value of capital that we invested since 2017, including both distributions and residual value for the portfolio, which is expected to grow as the Alts portfolio matures. Turning next to our results for the quarter. Speaker 200:09:17Excluding significant items, we delivered adjusted net earnings of $154,000,000 which generated an adjusted ROA of 125 basis points and we reported an adjusted ROE of 11%. Notably, our ROA is above our 110 basis point baseline that we shared at our Investor Day back in October. Wendy will get into the results more in a few minutes, but the quarter once again demonstrates that we are positioned to perform across market cycles and that we can consistently deliver strong results with attractive and expanding margins over time. We have plenty of momentum to continue to deliver sustainable asset growth from our retail and pension risk transfer growth strategies and ongoing margin expansion from enhanced investment margin opportunities, operational scale benefits and fee based earnings from accretive flow reinsurance. We are also well positioned to diversify our earnings given the strong growth of our middle market life insurance business and owned distribution strategies. Speaker 200:10:22Our strategic investment in owned distribution stakes will generate a meaningfully higher risk adjusted return on capital than retained business and provides a diversifying source of earnings. Owned distribution further strengthens our relationships with key partners. And with industry consolidation underway, we believe we are uniquely positioned to partner as a distribution consolidator. To date, we've invested $530,000,000 and we expect EBITDA for the portfolio to be $45,000,000 to $50,000,000 in 2024 with double digit growth over the medium term. Wrapping up, I am very proud of our team's accomplishments. Speaker 200:11:01The business is hitting on all cylinders and we remain focused on our strategic priorities, fulfilling the commitments we made in connection with our Investor Day and creating long term value for all of our stakeholders. Let me now turn the call over to Wendy to provide further details on F and G's Q1 financial highlights. Speaker 300:11:20Thanks, Chris. We are very pleased with F and G's overall financial performance for the Q1. I'd like to point out before we get into our results that we've updated our quarterly financial supplement this quarter to highlight results from our core product margin, low reinsurance fees and owned distribution among other enhancements. Now starting with earnings. Adjusted net earnings attributable to common shareholders for the Q1 were $108,000,000 or $0.86 per share and included $100,000,000 or $0.77 per share of investment income from alternative investments and $6,000,000 or $0.05 per share of CLO redemption gains and bond prepayment income. Speaker 300:12:01Alternative investments investment income based on management's long term expected return of approximately 10% was 152,000,000 dollars or $1.18 per share. Adjusted net earnings for the Q1 of 2023 were $61,000,000 or $0.49 per share and included $99,000,000 or $0.79 per share of investment income from alternative investments, partially offset by $37,000,000 or $0.30 per share tax valuation allowance expense. Alternative investments investment income based on management's long term expected return approximately 10% was $132,000,000 or $1.05 per share. For comparison, adjusting for these significant items in both periods, adjusted net earnings were $154,000,000 in the Q1 of 2024, up 18% from $131,000,000 in the Q1 of 'twenty 3. This increase reflects asset growth and diversification of margin from accretive flow reinsurance fees and owned distribution margin, which were partially offset by an increase in interest expense due to planned capital market activity and higher operating costs in line with the growth in sales and assets and continued investments in our operating platform. Speaker 300:13:15Our adjusted return on assets, excluding significant items, was 125 basis points in the quarter, comfortably above our 110 basis point baseline as shared at Investor Day in October of 2023. The current quarter includes basis points of favorable actuarial liability movement that is within our expected range and reflects the effects of our methodology, which can be lumpy for inter quarter variability. Next, turning to our balance sheet. We ended the quarter with F and G Equity attributable to common shareholders excluding AOCI of $5,200,000,000 or $41.10 per share with 126,000,000 common shares outstanding as of March 31. There are a couple of pages in our investor presentation providing an analysis of book value per share. Speaker 300:14:03F and G's debt to capitalization ratio excluding AOCI was 24% as of March 31. This is in line with our long term target of 25 percent and includes the $250,000,000 preferred stock issuance in January 2024. Our annualized interest expense is approximately $120,000,000 or roughly 6.6 percent blended yield on the $1,800,000,000 of total debt outstanding. We continue to target holding company cash and invested assets at 2x fixed charge coverage. Our strong capitalization supports both growth and distributable cash. Speaker 300:14:39During the Q1, F and G paid $26,000,000 of common dividends and a $4,000,000 dividend on its preferred stock held by FNF. F and G is well positioned to self fund its continued growth with positive and growing in force capital generation, available debt capacity as our balance sheet delevers with book value growth over time and ample opportunity for future reinsurance programs. For 2024 specifically, our stable profitable in force is expected to generate more than $1,000,000,000 in capital and we have strong capital generation in the range of $500,000,000 from existing reinsurance arrangements. In summary, we have great momentum in executing on our strategy and delivered a terrific Q1. In addition, we continue to maintain strong capitalization and financial flexibility to successfully execute on our growth strategy. Speaker 300:15:31This concludes our prepared remarks. Let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions. Operator00:15:39Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be conducting a question and answer Our first question is from the line of John Barnidge with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:16:20Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the RYLA product. How should we be thinking about contribution in 2024? And how meaningful was it in the Q1 that it was rolled out? Speaker 400:16:33Thanks. Speaker 200:16:35Sure. Thanks, John. This is Chris. I would say not very meaningful in the quarter. We rolled out literally with 1 or 2 distribution partners. Speaker 200:16:45We've got a number of additional partners in the queue that I will expect that I expect will roll out in the Q2 and Q3. So I don't think this is going to be a big needle mover for us this year, but it should be meaningful for us as we head into 2025. And given the environment right now, we've got plenty of sales opportunities. So yes, I would say it'd be relatively modest this year and, but should start becoming a meaningful contributor next year. Speaker 400:17:17Thank you for that. And my follow-up question, Chris, competitive dynamics in the PRT market, you talked about finally crossing a big threshold in sales to the cumulative basis and some participants have talked about this year being a bit more competitive in that institutional product. Speaker 200:17:36Yes. I wouldn't say that we've seen a dramatic change. I mean, obviously, it was a tremendous that was a record Q1 for us. So the team has executed really well. We tend to be super selective in terms of what we bid on. Speaker 200:17:49So the process is pretty thorough for deciding where we even crank up the engine to bid. And then when we bid, we've had a decent hit rate there. So I think it will always be competitive because it's such an attractive market, but obviously still getting our fair share and haven't seen a big change in terms of return dynamics. Speaker 400:18:13Thank you. Operator00:18:16Thank Our next question is from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:18:32Hey, good morning. Thanks. So the ROA baseline in the quarter, I guess, adjusted for alts was 125 basis points and that's above your recent target of 110. So maybe just hoping you could talk about if you see that at a sustainable level going forward and maybe the drivers of a little bit of that outperformance would be great. Speaker 200:18:49Yes, I'll start and I know Wendy will jump in. I think there was probably a little bit of positive tailwind to that, but not a lot. So yes, we feel really good about what we laid out in our Investor Day was a baseline of 110 basis points, and we thought we could grow that 15 to as much as 30 basis points through a few levers, optimizing the investment portfolio that's feeling quite optimistic for us right now. Flow reinsurance, you're already seeing the impact of that. And then some operating scale as we continue to grow. Speaker 200:19:25So, yes, we feel pretty good about that. And I don't know, Wendy, if you want to walk through maybe a little more of the dynamics of the quarter itself. Speaker 300:19:31Sure. And I'll even go back to last quarter, Wes. There was based on our reserving methodologies, we're going to get a little bit of fluctuation quarter to quarter. Last quarter, it was a little bit of a hit. This quarter, it's a little bit of positive. Speaker 300:19:50So we're basically indicated in the script that there's about a 5 basis points maybe of positive noise in that mechanics that we have. So we feel really good about expansion from here. And in addition to what Chris said about flow and scalability, owned distribution really popped in the quarters and that definitely is sustainable. Speaker 400:20:17Got it. Thanks. And I just wanted to maybe follow-up on John's question on PRT. I think one of your private equityinsurance peers made some comments on their earnings call this quarter that there's some recent lawsuits that Speaker 200:20:28are likely to chill some Speaker 400:20:29of the volumes in the PRT market in 2024. And they also mentioned that they said spreads weren't very attractive this year versus last year. So I just wanted to get any additional perspective on if you think you could see some lower volumes or if that's not the case and if you still see decent spread in that market? Speaker 200:20:46Sure. Yes, I think there's clearly the potential for that to cast a bit of a pall over the market. So we're watching for it. We haven't really seen that yet. I mean, there are quite a few deals in the queue for us and everybody to go bid on. Speaker 200:21:01To the spread piece, it's really hard to compare across firms because the single biggest driver is, do you have access to unique longer duration originated credit? And if you do, we're still earning good spreads. If you don't, then it's tough. It's going to be difficult. And that's everything from triple net leases to infrastructure debt, etcetera. Speaker 200:21:23So, it can be very bespoke asset specific types of opportunities. And so again, I think it's kind of hard to generalize across the industry. But yes, it's something that we clearly are on. We'll look out for and raising our profile on everything from how we use reinsurance to transparency about everything that we do. Speaker 400:21:51Thanks, Chris. And maybe just one more on funding agreements, but you did a little bit of FHLB borrowing in quarter. You mentioned that conditions were challenging for FABN in the Q1. I think there were some peers that kind of returned to that market, but just wanted to get your perspective on the rest of the year if it looks more attractive in your outlook for FAB in Michigan? Speaker 200:22:09Yes, I think it does. It's a good environment right now to be an issuer. So I think during the quarter, it was on the cusp. I think it's looking definitely looking more attractive right now. Wendy, if you want to add to that. Speaker 300:22:23Yes. I was just going to say we monitor it, Wes, just to see how we're doing from the spread perspective. Our rating is a little bit lower than some of the ones that have gone out in the Q1 and that impacts the spread. But we are monitoring and it looks like it's getting better every day. Speaker 200:22:44Yes. And one other thing I would say was is obviously we're trying to maximize return on capital, right? That's the goal. And so right now, given the attractive opportunities in retail and PRT, so we look at all of them as funding sources and cost of funds and we're Wendy and I are trying to optimize that at all times. But looking at the quarter, I actually walking around feeling like this might have been the best quarter we ever had. Speaker 200:23:11Inflows continue to be strong. The mix was really positive. So the mix shift towards FIAs from MYGA, obviously FIA is our most profitable product. It's a longer duration product. So we're walking in spread for longer and we are already starting to see, as you said, expansion on the margin front. Speaker 200:23:33So never declare victory in the 3rd inning of the game, but relative to what we put out there for Investor Day, we're off to a really good start and feeling really good about it. Thanks. Operator00:23:49Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist Securities. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:24:01Yes. Thank you. Good morning. Sorry if I might have you might have touched on this. I joined late. Speaker 500:24:07But I think you'd commented how you're optimistic on RYALA sales that should become a bigger part of your mix. Could you talk about kind of how you see the long term dynamic between Ryla's in fixed indexed annuities and how your distribution kind of matches up to support 1 or the other, how it may evolve over time to support the Ryla sales if it needs to? Speaker 200:24:37Sure. Yes. No, great question, Mark. So, I'd say a couple of things. If you think about a fixed index annuity, it's got a floor of 0 and an opportunity to participate in markets, but by definition, it's got a capped upside. Speaker 200:24:53Ryla allows someone to take a risk level below 0, right, typically in the form of a buffer, say 5%, 10%, even 20% of downside absorbed by the carrier, which just allows for a lot more upside. So typically, it's a younger demographic. It's someone either with a higher risk tolerance or in many cases a younger demographic. So it's a market we've never played in at all, right? And so all of this is greenfield and really should be incremental sales and incremental margin for us. Speaker 200:25:26So and then the other from a distribution channel perspective, not surprisingly, Ryla tends to be more popular in the broker dealer channel, whereas FIAs tend to be more popular in the IMO and in the bank channels. And so, a lot of our activity in adding distribution partners starting a couple of years ago have been to add more broker dealers in anticipation of the RYLO launch. So, hopefully that helps a little bit, bit younger demographic, client with a higher risk tolerance. I've said this before, it opens up a massive pool because you have to ask the question of, yes, everybody should probably own some mutual funds if they've got a very long term time horizon and some equities, but that comes with a tremendous amount of volatility. And so I think a lot of people like the peace of mind of knowing that there is some constrained outcome set. Speaker 200:26:25And so yes, this is a category that I think for the industry is going to be really attractive. But lastly, I will say it's playing to the same strengths. Again, we're just buying a different colored option with a wider band of outcomes. But it's at the end of the day, it's a spread based product and the key drivers that have made us successful in the FIA space should translate in the Ryla space. Speaker 500:26:52And then I think a somewhat competitor of yours has talked a bit more about integrating their annuity products into these retirement dated funds that they're starting to see some movement there. Can you talk on that opportunity, whether that's something you're pursuing directly as another distribution channel source of growth? Speaker 200:27:25Yes, I would say it's not top of the queue for us. There are a lot of, as you know, complications within and challenges within that market. It's been kind of a slow boat coming. I do think the products can have a big impact for society to be able to do that and for folks to be able to participate in their 401 plans. But I would say right now with all of the distribution opportunities we have both in institutional and retail that feels like a better priority for us. Speaker 200:27:56But, we continue to look at it and want to stay close to it. If appropriate, we think that's a market we could compete in if we choose to. Speaker 500:28:06Yes. Would you think the economics at this point are not quite there yet or is it just there's not as much demand in that 401 market? Speaker 200:28:18Yes, I'm probably not the best expert on this topic, although I studied it years ago at a different firm quite intensively. I think the biggest issues are record keeping. So it's kind of the expense and complication of getting planned sponsors to adopt it and more importantly record keepers to pay for all of the enhancements to make it work. And then the other is, for it to be get broad based acceptance, you do end up with a lot of smaller accounts. Now that can be solved for through some sort of omnibus structure. Speaker 200:28:53But yes, it's just a little more complicated. I would also think carriers with a big recognized brand name and or retirement plans presence of their own probably will have a little bit of a leg up there. Hopefully that helps. Speaker 500:29:10Yes, understood. Yes, it sure does. Thank you. Appreciate it. Operator00:29:16Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:29:24Hey, thanks for taking my follow-up. I just had a question on the capital consumption on the RYLA product versus an FIA or OMIGA. I imagine there's the same C4 charge on the premium. But when you look at RBC, is the RYLA product favorable relative to a fixed annuity sale or is there not much of a difference there? Speaker 200:29:43Wendy, you want to tackle that one? Speaker 300:29:45Yes. Sure. Thank you. Yes, there's not much of a difference. As Chris said, it's the basically the difference between the products is the option that we purchase and there's really no difference in the capital charge on that. Speaker 400:30:00Okay. Great. And then just maybe just following up on the DOL and the final rule, obviously your new business origination capabilities are much more diversified than the last time we saw this. But I think you mentioned 15% or so of gross sales might be the most impacted. Can you maybe just give us any additional perspective on what changed this time around with this version? Speaker 400:30:20And if there's any way to kind of dimension the potential expense impact, that'd be great. Speaker 200:30:27Yes. I mean, the honest answer is not much changed. And I think that's the frustration of the industry is that it's eerily similar to the role that was put forth before. So there will be enhanced compliance expense. I don't think any of it is going to rise to a level that's going to cause us to question the forecast that we've put out, etcetera. Speaker 200:30:52So I put it more in the it's annoying. A number of people feel that it's unnecessary given all the other regulations that are in place. The bigger concern that I have, which I mentioned in the notes, is it could be an impediment for agents serving the middle market and just moving upstream. I do think it's going to take a time it's going to take a while for that impact to be felt. And so again, given we probably have more probably we have more sales opportunity than capital right now. Speaker 200:31:30That's the constraint is not opportunity for sales. So again, there's nothing in this that's going to cause us to change our plans. The concern on my end is it will be impactful to certain agents. And I think unfortunately, it will be disproportionately impactful to agents that are serving the middle market. I don't know Wendy, if there's anything you want to add to that. Speaker 300:31:51I think I would just add, Wes, the biggest difference is that F and G is different, right? Back in the original rule, we weren't in the bank and broker dealer market. So that has significantly improved those percentages that Chris was talking about of where we would be impacted. Speaker 200:32:12Yes. And then we also weren't in the PRT or FABN market. So if you go back 5 years ago, we were doing probably $3,000,000,000 of sales. It was all through independent agents. And now as you see, we're $13,000,000,000 plus and we continue to grow the IMO space. Speaker 200:32:29And a number of those IMOs, I think, actually will thrive during this because they're fairly sophisticated. It may force independent agents to need to affiliate with 1 IMO versus multiple IMOs. So I think the best players actually look at this and say, we can build some nice moats for ourselves adapting to this. But there's just a lot of agents and a lot of smaller agents calling on middle market clients that, this is going to be quite disruptive for. Speaker 400:33:06Great. Thank you. Operator00:33:11Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this will conclude our question and answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Chris Blunt, for his closing remarks. Chris? Speaker 200:33:25Great. Thanks, everybody. We're really pleased with our overall results, which demonstrate the competitive strengths and resilience of our business. F and G is positioned to perform through the cycle and we're successfully executing on our strategic priorities to generate continued growth and profitability. Thanks for joining us. Speaker 200:33:42We appreciate your interest in F and G and look forward to updating you on our Q2 earnings call. Operator00:33:49The conference of F and G has now concluded. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.Read morePowered by