Camtek Q1 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
May 9, 2024

There are 13 speakers on the call.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I would like to welcome all of you to Camtek's results Zoom webinar. My name is Kenny Green, and I'm part of the Investor Relations team at Camtek. All participants, other than the presenters, are currently muted.

Operator

Following the formal presentation, I will provide some instructions for participating in the live question and answer session. I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded and the recording will be available on Camtek's website from tomorrow. You should have all received by now the company's press release. If not, please view it on the company's website. With me on the call today, we have Mr.

Operator

Rafi Amit, Camtek's CEO Mr. Moshe Eisenberg, Camtek's CFO and Mr. Rami Langer, Camtek's COO. Ravi will open by providing an overview of Camtek's results and discuss recent market trends. Moshe will then summarize the financial results of the quarter.

Operator

Following that, Rafi Moshe and Ramy will be available to answer your questions. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain information provided on this call are internal company estimates unless otherwise specified. This call may also contain forward looking statements. These statements are only predictions and may change as time passes. Statements on this call are made as of today and the company undertakes no obligation to update any of the forward looking statements contained whether results of new information, future events, changes and expectations or otherwise.

Operator

Investors are reminded that these forward looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to differ materially from those projected, including as a result of the effects of general economic conditions. Risks related to the concentration of a significant portion of Camtek's expected business in certain countries, particularly China, from which Camtek expects to generate a significant portion of its revenues for the foreseeable future, but also Taiwan and Korea, including the risks of deviations from our expectations regarding timing and size of orders from customers in these countries, changing industry and market trends, reduced demand for services and products the timely development of new services and products and their adoption by the market increased competition in the industry and price reductions as well as due to other risks identified in the company's filings with the SEC. Please note the Safe Harbor statements in today's press release also covers the contents of this conference call. In addition, during this call, certain non GAAP financial measures will be discussed. These are used by management to make strategic decisions, forecast future results and evaluate the company's performance.

Operator

Management believes that the presentation of non GAAP financial measures are useful to investors' understanding and assessment of the company's ongoing core operations and prospect for the future. A full reconciliation of non GAAP to GAAP financial measures are included in today's earnings release. And now I'd like to hand the call over to Rafi, Camtek's CEO. Rafi, please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Okay. Thanks, Kenny. Good morning or good afternoon, everyone. Camtek ended Q1 2024 with a record quarterly revenue of $97,000,000 exceeding the guidance of $93,000,000 to $95,000,000 provided last quarter. It is interesting to look at the distribution of sales this quarter.

Speaker 1

80% of our revenue came from advanced interconnect packaging applications, which are divided to 40% from HBM segment, 20% from chiplets, and 20% from other advanced packaging applications. The remaining 20% are divided between compound semiconductor for power devices, CIS and process control applications. The gross margin came high in this quarter at 50.6%. This achievement resulted mainly from the high percentage of systems sold to the Advanced Packaging Interconnect segment. The operating margin also show an improvement to about 30%.

Speaker 1

Based on our current order flow, backlog and pipeline, we expect the high demand for HBM and chiplets to continue into the next quarters. This is reflected in our revenue guidance for the Q2, which is about $100,000,000 to $102,000,000 Today, I would like to focus on the high demand for AI related products. Rather than quoting from articles and industry surveys, I would like to share with you the information we have gathered from our current business regarding the effects of AI on our markets. AI technology and especially generative AI requires extremely powerful computing capability, and it is based on HPC architecture, of which the 2 main components are HBM and chiplets. Since Camtek is their leading provider for inspection and metrology of HBM and since we are present at all Tier 1 customers in large number of inspection and metrology steps, the rate of requirement of incoming orders from HBM manufacturers is an important indication of the expected growth rate of HBM and HPC.

Speaker 1

The sharp increase in demand for HBM can be understood when comparing the revenue from our tools for HBM inspection and metrology in the Q1 of 2024 to historical rates. Until the Q1 of last year, HBM accounted for a single digit percentage of our revenue. Starting from the second half of last year, we experienced significant growth in HBM sales, and they accounted for approximately 20%. This quarter, the revenue for HBM applications was 40% of our total revenue, and we expect this level to continue in Q2 as well. We believe that this is a very strong indicator to the extent of production capacity built by the industry for this component, which are essential for high performance computing.

Speaker 1

As we mentioned in our last call the Q4, the consensus among the analysts is that HBM and chiplet will continue growing in the coming years at an annual rate of 20% to 30%. And therefore, we believe that this segment will continue to be a significant part of our sales in the coming years. The advantage of being a major player in Tier 1 HBM and chiplets manufacturers is that we are constantly challenged by the most advanced technological requirements, enhancing our capabilities and knowledge in inspection and metrology. We have developed new solutions to meet our Tier 1 customers' roadmap. I use the term solutions because it is a combination of new platforms, new and advanced optical assemblies, special features, and AI based algorithms.

Speaker 1

To sum it up, the field of AI is changing the industry and Camtek is well positioned to benefit from these trends, which will give us more confidence in our ability to continue growing beyond 2020 4 and reach our next goal of annual sales of more than $500,000,000 And now Moshe will review the financial results. Moshe?

Speaker 2

Thanks, Rafi. In my financial summary ahead, I will provide the results on a non GAAP basis. The reconciliation between the GAAP results and the non GAAP results appears in the table at the end of the press release issued earlier today. The purchase accounting treatment for from the FRT transaction is also included in our non GAAP reconciliation. In addition, please note that the FRT results are included only starting from November 1, 2023.

Speaker 2

Going now to the revenues. 1st quarter revenues came in at a record $97,000,000 an increase of 34% compared with the Q1 of 2023 and an increase of 9% from the Q4 of 2023. The geographic revenue split for the quarter was as follows: Asia, 86% China was a relatively lower part of the mix because a good portion of our revenue this quarter came from HBM and Chiplets. US and Europe together are 14%. Gross profit for the quarter was 49.1 percent $49,100,000 The gross margin for the quarter was 50.6 percent, up from 47.3% in Q1 of last year and 49.2% last quarter.

Speaker 2

The improvement is a result of a more favorable product mix as well as the initiatives we implemented to improve the cost structure over the last few quarters. We anticipate to maintain these levels in the coming quarters. Operating expenses in the quarter were $20,100,000 compared to $16,900,000 in the Q1 of last year and $18,200,000 in the previous quarter. The increase is mostly due to a planned expansion to support the continued growth. Operating profit in the quarter was $29,000,000 compared to the $17,400,000 reported in the Q1 of last year and 25 $500,000 in the previous quarter.

Speaker 2

The increase is mostly due to the increase in the revenue and the improvement in the gross profit. Operating margin was 29.9 percent compared to 24% and 28.7%, respectively. Financial income for the quarter was $5,600,000 at the similar level to the previous quarter and higher than the $5,100,000 reported last year. The increase from last year was due to higher interest rate on our cash balance. Net income for the Q1 of 2024 was $31,300,000 or $0.64 per diluted share.

Speaker 2

This is compared to a net income of $20,400,000 or $0.42 per share in the Q1 of last year. Total diluted number of shares as of the end of the Q1 was 49,300,000. Dollars Turning to some high level balance sheet and cash flow metrics. Cash and cash equivalents, including short- and long term deposits and marketable securities, as of March 31, 2024, were $467,000,000 This compared with $449,000,000 at the end of the Q4. We generated $20,000,000 in cash from operations in the quarter on the back of increased revenue and good collection.

Speaker 2

I know that during April, the company paid $60,000,000 as a dividend to the shareholders. The inventory level increased by approximately $7,000,000 to $102,100,000 The increase over the previous quarter is to support the anticipated sales growth in the coming quarters. Account receivable decreased to $86,400,000 in the quarter despite the increase in revenue, primarily as a result of a strong collection in the quarter. Our days sales outstanding decreased to 81 days, down from 90 days. Guidance.

Speaker 2

As Rafi said before, we expect revenue of between $100,000,000 to $102,000,000 in the second quarter with continued sequential growth throughout 2024. And with that, Rafi, Rami and I will be open to take your questions. Kenny?

Operator

Thank you, Moshe. At this time, we will start the question and answer session. Please raise your hand on the zoom platform. Following that, I will introduce you and ask you to unmute after which you may ask your question. Our first question will be from Charles Hsieh of Needham.

Operator

Charles, you may go ahead.

Speaker 3

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So, Q1 HBM plus chiplet, 60% of the total revenue. That's that's a very impressive number.

Speaker 3

But I kind of recall that that you guys were expecting, these 2 applications to account for like a 30% plus for the full year. Is that do shall we expect a higher number for the full year now or it's kind of like a moving target because it depends on your total revenue. But I want to get some sense is Q1 in terms of HBM plus chiplets as a percentage. Is it the high point of the year or you expect maybe Q1, Q2 maintain at this level, maybe Q3, Q4 maybe a slowdown, I mean, come down as a percentage a little bit? Thanks.

Speaker 1

Rami, you want to answer to that?

Speaker 4

Yes. So, hi, Charles. So, definitely, yes, the numbers came higher than we expected when we were thinking about it and talking about it a couple of quarters ago. But definitely the numbers are higher and we assume and we said it that the number is going for this year to be around 50%. It's definitely going to be higher than we expected previously.

Speaker 3

Got it. So, may I ask in the HBM and the chiplete revenue you guys are receiving so far, is there any China contribution

Speaker 4

yet? No. When you are talking here, this is not related to China, as Moshe alluded in his prepared notes. That's definitely the 5 big players we discussed in previous calls.

Speaker 3

Got it. Then the other question, you guys I think this is the first a little bit longer term guidance you provided, 2025 revenue surpassing that $500,000,000 milestone. I believe your current capacity, the max potential of your capacity is about at that level. So wonder, do you think what's your thought on capacity expansion? Maybe you're going to do some of that expansion this year.

Speaker 3

But I want to get some thoughts on how you think about the supply side of the equation. Thank you.

Speaker 4

So, Charles, so let me first of all correct you. When we spoke about $500,000,000 we are talking beyond. This is in the foreseeable future. This is the next target. This is not related for 2025.

Speaker 4

We are not in a position to say today what will be the revenues of the entire year 'twenty four and definitely not 2025. So this is regarding the 500, it will the notes are very clear. Regarding the capacity, and I think we mentioned it in previous calls, in the last expansion that we have made, we have today the ability to manufacture here in this facility over $500,000,000 So from the capacity, from our ability to meet the requirements, including the sub suppliers in the supplier chain, we are ready to reach those numbers. But when we will reach them, that's a different discussion that we cannot discuss today.

Speaker 3

Yes, that's fair. Basically, it means that you won't be supply constrained before your demand reaches that level. So maybe a last question. I think this is probably a good number that you guys disclosed that the chiplet is 20% of the total revenue. Wonder compared with the last year, is there any also a meaningful uptick on the chiplet revenue as well?

Speaker 3

Because you did put a lot of emphasis on the HBM side, but really want to have a better understanding about chiplet. And are you supplying to 1 or 2 customers already on the chiplet side?

Speaker 4

No. So definitely, there is a significant increase on the chiplet side as well, and we are supplying to the 2 major players here. So from that point of view, we are covering the entire market. And definitely, there is an increase. The numbers were significantly lower when you go a year ago.

Speaker 3

Thanks so much.

Operator

Thanks, Charles. Our next question will be from Brian Chin of Stifel. Brian, you may go ahead and ask.

Speaker 5

Hi there. Can you hear me okay?

Operator

Yeah, we can.

Speaker 5

Great. Good afternoon. And thanks for letting us ask a few questions. I guess, firstly, do you believe that an increasing portion of your shipments this year will be for 12 high HBM die stacking? And does your revenue opportunity increase in a linear fashion when you move from 8 high or the industry moves from 8 high to 12 high HBM stacks?

Speaker 4

So in general, Brian, it should mean an increase. But then in the other side, it's going to be the ratio of HBMs per chiplets. So going to a stack of 12, they will put less HBMs around the chiplets. So I'm not sure what eventually the total numbers of DRAMs that will be scanned. So when you need to look at our business, we scan wafers.

Speaker 4

So we don't scan it in the sense of one tie after the other. So really here, the question will be the number of DRAMs that are going to be used for the HBMs, and this is going to really dictate what is going to be the growth factor from our point of view.

Speaker 6

Got it.

Speaker 4

Is is that okay? You you understood the point, Brian?

Speaker 7

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5

Yeah. I think I think I did. That that's helpful. And then for me, from a lead time perspective, you know, how how are you managing? I know you have the ability, the the the shelf footprint to be able to hit the eventual 500,000,000 interim revenue target.

Speaker 5

But in terms of the fast progression of this ramp, how are you managing from a lead time perspective? And are you, at this stage, basically booking into 4Q?

Speaker 4

So so first of all, let's talk about the lead times. So from the lead times, I think our customers have given us enough lead time in order to run. Today, I would say the lead time is 3 to 6 months. So from that point of view, we have enough time to ramp the business and get the inventory influence to be able to meet the demand. Okay.

Speaker 1

Yes. Additional remark for the lead time. You know, usually the, the, this, what you call high performance computing HBM and chiplet is done by the, you know, the biggest player in the industry, and they are well organized and they can place order for, let's say, even a year ahead. When we talk other segment, usually, the, like, OSATO other, their lead time is much shorter in general. So it's depending on the mix product and then we can see also the related to the lead time as well.

Speaker 5

Okay. Well, maybe one last question for Moshe. The I guess, how do we think about gross margin progression as revenue exceeds the 400,000,000 dollars annualized rate over the course of this year? What are sort of the key considerations around product customer mix and maybe costs?

Speaker 2

So obviously, gross margin has to do with few factors. The first one is the product mix, and and this is, you know, we don't really know. The 400 can come from, you know, with a different mix. And the second element is more like the cost structure. And so what we did in the last several quarters is we definitely improved the cost structure of our COGS level in terms of fixed expenses and also the variable expenses, and we definitely improved it.

Speaker 2

From that point, we are more relying now on improvement in product mix and ASPs. So it's hard for me to say, but generally speaking, we are now at the point that we have some leverage and we you see some constant improvement in the gross margin, and we believe that we will be able to maintain these levels, you know, and hopefully even improve it over the next few quarters.

Speaker 6

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Thanks, Brian. Our next questions will come from Brian Chin of Stifel. Craig Gellis from B. Riley. You may go ahead and ask your questions.

Speaker 8

Thanks for taking the question. Good afternoon team and congratulations on the nice execution. I wanted to start with a nearer term just to understand the operating environment that you all are seeing and it relates to order or pipeline conversion to order activity dynamics that you may have seen. We've heard from a number of companies that have high bandwidth memory and chiplet exposure that the latest increase in orders seem to happen concurrent with the big step up in U. S.

Speaker 8

Hyperscale spending activity in the last month and a half. The question is, is that something that served as a catalyst for Camtek? And can you compare just the intensity of customer discussions on future new orders or pipeline activity converting to orders with what you've seen maybe 3 6 months ago?

Speaker 4

I'm trying to think, but I think also 3 to 6 months ago, we started a lot of activities and there was a lot of intensive discussions and we started to see a booking already 3 to 6 months ago. I don't think there is a big change between a quarter ago and now. No doubt, there are lots of discussions with the customers. There is a lot of follow-up to make sure that we're shipping on time. Definitely the industry needs the machines and this is what we are getting from our customers.

Speaker 4

They want to make sure that they can install the machines on time. So from that point of view, I think this is in line, of what you are seeing. And looking forward on the second half of the question, we believe from the discussions with customer that the trend will continue into 'twenty four and further in 'twenty five, but it's too early to say something very concrete. But the overall, I would say, environment and atmosphere is very positive and very intense discussions, and we're constantly talking with the customers.

Speaker 8

That's really helpful color Rami, thank you. The next question is a little bit more longer term and it relates to the $500,000,000 revenue target. And the question is this, we're clearly seeing a very rapidly growing and increasingly large chiplet opportunity for things related to high performance compute and AI. But regarding the 500,000,000 revenue target, how much does that depend on some recovery in formerly large end markets like the smartphone end market? So the question is, can we get to $500,000,000 without a recovery in smartphones or to what extent would we need that smartphone or maybe process control to make a material or larger contribution than they are today?

Speaker 4

So, I, you know, I I will start and Rafi will probably want to, to continue or add something. But I, my my thinking is that in order to meet the $500,000,000 target, under this assumption, there will be, I would say, a larger contribution from the other what is today the rest of their businesses. Today, no doubt that the capacity in general in the fabs is low. And as a result, you see less investments in some of our other markets. My assumption that we will see some pickup towards the end of 2024 and definitely in order to reach the higher numbers 500 and beyond definitely my assumption is that those markets will definitely be a larger part of the business.

Speaker 4

And maybe, Rafi, you want to add something?

Speaker 1

Yes. I would say that there are 2 major issues that can affect our goals to achieve the $500,000,000 Number 1, we want to see the utilization in the fab come to the normal number of about 90%. And the GDP worldwide is behave much normal and we can see some growth by end product line. And definitely, China also can be a big factor if they also get into this HPC segment. So there are many parameters that affect our ability to reach this 500,000,000, but definitely what we can see in q1 is not normal, totally, because the high performance computing is very high, and we expect the other segment also, we see some recovery and then we can feel more comfortable with it.

Speaker 8

That's really helpful color guys. And then the last one will be for Moshe. Moshe, first, congratulations on the really, really strong gross margins and you've provided color there. So I wanted to ask an operating expense question that somewhat relates to points made in prepared remarks by Raffi with the work you're doing with customers to customize solutions. The question is this, as the company further engages with customers and chiplet opportunities and others, how should we think about the potential growth in R and D through the year relative to what we've seen recently?

Speaker 8

Thanks, everybody.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Craig. So in a way, this is already Rafi prepared remarks regarding the work that we do with the major Tier 1 players is already built into our R and D plans for this year. And my expectation is that R and D, at least the R and D portion of the OpEx will grow pretty much hand in hand with the revenue growth this year. The other expense items such as sales and marketing and G and A will be less affected by the growth in the revenue and will represent an opportunity for a leverage additional leverage that we have in the model.

Speaker 8

Thanks, Tim.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Speaker 4

Thank you.

Operator

Thanks, Craig. Our next question will be from Vibati Chotra from Evercore. Vibati, you may go ahead and ask.

Speaker 9

Hi, thanks for taking my question and congratulations on solid execution. The first one I wanted to ask about is, you're seeing HBM and triplet revenues grow really fast in these markets. And it's my guess is it would attract a lot of competition. Could you help me understand what the competitive moat is so that you maintain that share and and get the bulk of it? Yeah.

Speaker 4

So, you know, so first of all, it's it's it's a good question and and thank you. Let me try and explain. First of all, from a competitive situation, this market will only entertain business from comparatively large players. So from that point of view, a lot of the competition that we see elsewhere and in other players in other industries will not apply here. So the main players here and I think we said it on our previous calls, so definitely our main competitor, Rontu Innovation, is a player here.

Speaker 4

There could be some business from KLA coming into business, but the business opportunity is very large and it's growing. Now, if you take our position and the reason that we have such a strong position in this market, we have been working with the customers today that we are serving for quite a few years. There has been a lot of development work in doing all the steps that we execute today, this is not something that can be replaced or changed very easily. And we continue to work very closely with these customers and we are, as we speak, developing new steps and capabilities to meet the requirements of all these customers, what they will need in next year and the following years. So yes, there will be more competition, no doubt, as the opportunity grows.

Speaker 4

But I think we're very well positioned to maintain a significant share in the market share both in the HBM and the giblets arena.

Speaker 9

That's helpful. Thank you. Maybe asking a little bit on top of that is, so how is your visibility into the second half of this year? Like are you starting to see a good chunk of orders which kind of give you that confidence that you continue to grow sequentially? I think last quarter there was a sort of visibility issue on what the second half of twenty twenty four would look like.

Speaker 9

Do you think that commentary has changed since then?

Speaker 4

No. So definitely, we will continue to see orders coming in. And we are in very intense discussions with our customers and we understand also when they will be placing orders for the second half. So overall, we are confident that we will maintain the level of business that we're seeing now with some growth in the second half.

Speaker 1

I would like to add something just to understand. You know, even if we get an order for, let's say, for q4. Okay?

Speaker 6

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

But you have to consider that sometimes this order is depend on the customer to complete infrastructure, construction, facility, other parameter that maybe if it's not on time, it can delay this order to another quarters. This is why we cannot tell in advance for a long term, you know, what is going to happen. We can get order, we see pipeline, we understand the demand, and we feel comfortable, but it can move, you know, additional months, additional quarter based on the infrastructure is ready or not ready for that.

Speaker 9

That's helpful. Thank you. And maybe a last one. I think in the previous calls, you had alluded to a newer platform that is ramping up sometime in 2024. Could you give us an update on where we are in that process or and the adoption that you're looking

Speaker 4

at? So I want to be very careful here. Obviously, these are things that we don't disclose on the call. I think Rafi, in his prepared note, discussed some of the things that we're doing. We're definitely making headways and we are in process today of bringing in the new products into the market.

Speaker 4

It is too early for us to make a formal announcement and we will probably make them as we you know things progress and during the year. It's a little bit too early to give you more details than I've we've just given so far.

Speaker 9

Sure. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Vipati. Thanks, Vipati.

Operator

Our next question will be from Gus Richard of Northlands. Gus, you may go ahead and ask. Gus, you need to unmute.

Speaker 10

Sorry about that. I was looking at the model. Congratulations on the strong results. And my first question is, in terms of chiplets, are you starting to see that spread out into the OSATs?

Speaker 4

There are discussions about it. I think there are there's already it's starting to happen, but it's still, I think, relatively low volumes. I think it will happen, but I think this will happen later this year or in 'twenty

Speaker 10

5. Got it. And then in terms of FRT and opportunities for backside power, we're about a year out from backside power ramping into production. Are you starting to see or having conversations with your customers about ramping for that process change?

Speaker 4

First of all, from FRT, definitely, this is something that is proceeding on track. Specifically, on the question of this specific application, I don't have the answer right off the bat. This is something that we I can look into it, and we can have a follow on call. And I'll give you the answer, Gus.

Speaker 10

Thanks. And then the last one for me is, clearly, HPC is very strong and driving a lot of demand. However, the move of system and package to client has been somewhat less slower than I would have expected, I think, due to cost or potentially yield. And I'm just wondering or it could be capacity constraints. And I'm just wondering what you're seeing from your customers in terms of demand from the client side of chiplets in particular.

Speaker 4

No. No. I think the, you know, obviously, there's been a lot of discussions on the yield and, you know, how good the known good guys are. No, I think we're getting very strong demand indication from our customers that they are going to ramp and ramp further. And I think that from the technical sides, I think the industry has solutions for it.

Speaker 4

And I think there was more concern on the HBM side, but I believe that all the players today are on track to resolve those issues. That's at least what we are hearing on our side. But as you know, this kind of information is very confidential.

Speaker 10

All right. That's it for me. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Gas, and we'll have a follow on to just answer the question you I'm not able to answer now.

Speaker 10

Fair enough.

Operator

Thanks, Gus. Our next question will be from William LeVay of Barclays. William, you may go ahead.

Speaker 11

Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my question. My first question has to do with just HBM and the general timeframe you're seeing. Now, most of the large the 2 large HBM 3e players are sold out through 2025. Are your conversations focused now beyond that and further capacity ramps?

Speaker 4

Look, the the conversations don't go this way, you know. They they they talk in in in general and give you a, you know, first of all, when you talk, it's usually and when we talk about a purchase orders, it's usually for the same year or, as Rafi mentioned, up to 12 months ahead. And but the indications are from people that we speak that they see this segment continuing to grow. And then, let's say, the SENSE and the trend and what we hear, we believe that the HBM and chiplet growth will continue into 2025. Definitely, we don't have the picture of what will happen beyond, except from the understanding where these markets go.

Speaker 4

And just to give you a sense, today, the HBM, it's about around 6% of the entire DRAM business. So the indications are that these numbers would be much, much larger in a few years. So from understanding where this market is going to and the potential application, definitely the growth should be beyond 'twenty five and should be in the foreseeable future. But this is something that it's really too early to say and understand because this industry is very dynamic and many things can happen in between now and 'twenty five. So give you something very specific and concrete, obviously, we can't.

Speaker 4

Understanding where this market, understanding the technology and the trend, definitely, this is something that we believe will grow continue to grow in the foreseeable future.

Speaker 1

And from time to time, we can see customers that really start with construction and infrastructure in order to expand their fab capacity to meet the demand for the next few years. So it's also a good indication.

Speaker 11

Thanks guys. Just a quick follow on to refresh my memory. When you ship one of these products, how long will it take the customers to ramp and make your machine product like fully functional in their fabs?

Speaker 4

I would say, you know, the shipments is days because everything is shipped by air. And from the time it enters the the facility until it starts to run, it's questions of very few weeks. It it can be 1, 2 weeks, and it will start to run the product. And then it depends per the customer. Sometimes, if you can go here, but it's a very short time.

Speaker 11

Great. Thanks.

Operator

Thanks, William. If there are any additional questions, please raise your hand on the platform. We'll give us seconds to poll. Next question. In a minute.

Operator

We have a few more questions. Our next question will be from Dickson Yang. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I'm on behalf of Vivek. Just one on your target model. A while back, you gave out a model of $400,000,000 at the high end in sales. And alongside that, you said 52% to 53% gross margin.

Speaker 7

So given we're reaching that $400,000,000 in sales this year, is that gross margin level achievable or have things changed?

Speaker 2

In general, this is this is achievable, but, you know, we we we gave a range, and I believe that the range is a little bit wider, you know, 51% to 53%, and this is definitely a very achievable range. We are on the verge of this range, and we are pretty much at the run rate of $400,000,000 at the moment. So and as I said, there is a room for further improvements on the gross margin side as well as on the OpEx side. So this is still a valid range for the company.

Speaker 4

Got

Speaker 7

it. And then as a follow-up,

Operator

I

Speaker 7

think a while back you also mentioned that these HBM advanced packaging tools have roughly 50% ASP upside than the non HBM tools. Is that continuing to grow from, say, 8 high HPMs to 12 high and then from less of those advanced chiplets to more advanced? Are we still seeing ASP upsides going forward? Thank you.

Speaker 4

So so first of all, when we talked and we go back, I think somebody asked a similar question. So first of all, moving from 8 to 12 doesn't change our business or our machines don't really don't care because we we we scan wafers. Those wafers are then diced and then assembled either in 8 or 12. So from our point of view, it really doesn't matter whether it will be an 8 stack or a 12 stack. And there is no difference, not from the performance point of view and not from every aspect.

Speaker 4

The machines are identical. So is there here any upside for ASP improvement? No, there isn't, unfortunately. From our machines, it won't it will not matter to them.

Speaker 7

Understood. Thank you.

Operator

Thanks, Daxon. Next question will be from Alon Last of Metaf Dash. Alon, you may go ahead and ask your question. Alon, we can hear you.

Speaker 12

Hi. One of the questions is about efficiency in the HBM manufacturing. You spoke about it a bit on previous quarters mentioning that the efficiency is currently very low and there is the risk on behalf of contact that if efficiency grow demand for the inspection tools is less than what could be potential. Can you speak about it a bit? Mention what kind of efficiency, right, you see at the moment in the industry?

Speaker 12

Improvement in efficiency? Let's let me let

Speaker 1

me answer for that. 1st of all, you know, we we we are not we cannot share such confidential information. And even, you know, our customer do not share it with us. But from time to time, we try to double check it with customer. And definitely, I would say that the rumor in the market about the low efficiency, it's not true.

Speaker 1

And most of our customer denies it, no, no, it's not like that. It's much better. That is the only information we can share with.

Speaker 12

You. Okay. Thank you. Another question is about the gross margins. Currently, there is a 60% in the chiplets and HBM, which means that, let's say, the high margin tools are a large portion of the current quarter sales.

Speaker 12

What can drive additional improvement in the margins? Is it that HBM and Chiplet is going to be more than 60%? Or is it something else that might drive the improvement in gross margins going forward?

Speaker 2

So the potential improvement in gross margin comes from the new product and the new platforms that we alluded for, earlier in the call by Rami and Rafi. We are working on releasing new models and new

Speaker 12

year to say?

Speaker 2

So we did not we do not have a formal launch time for these product lines, but they will come in the near future. They will have a positive contribution as they get to the market.

Speaker 12

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Operator

Thanks, Alain. Our next question will be from Jack Hsu of Eastspring Investments. Jack, you may go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker 6

Yes. Thank you for giving me the chance to ask question. There are 2 questions. My first question is about it is because right now, your country has conflict with neighbor. So will this conflict will impact your operation and order shipment?

Speaker 6

This is my first question.

Speaker 4

Afi, you want to answer?

Speaker 1

No. No. You can answer. It's fine.

Speaker 4

Alright. So so so first of all, yes, it's unfortunate the conflict we're having. But from the operations point of view, Camtek is operating as usual. We have not missed any shipments. The government is supporting us and from shipments, airfreights, The entire environment is working and supporting the Israeli industry, and we do not expect any issues and so from point of view, from this point of view.

Speaker 4

Now furthermore, we have a few locations where we manufacture the machine here in Israel, actually 3 different locations with redundancy between the different places. And longer term, we are also thinking of establishing a manufacturing facility outside of Israel.

Speaker 6

Got it. Thank you. It's helpful. And my last question is, there are 3 major memory vendors. They are all announced they will provide HBN 3 E products in the coming future.

Speaker 6

So I'm interested, which vendors we will collaborate with them further or all the 3 customers all the 3 vendors, we are deeply cooperating with them.

Speaker 4

So thank you for the question, Jack. So first of all, as we mentioned before, we have very good and close relationship with all the vendors. Now when they will move from one type of HBM to another type, this is something they do not disclose with us, and, you know, these are their intentional internal plans. But from this really doesn't differ for us in the sense that we inspect and measure wafers. So whether they will do it a stack of 8, 12, or 16, this really does not make any does not require any changes in the machine.

Speaker 4

From performance point of view, we can meet all the requirements they need now and they will need down the road. And as I said, we work with all the different vendors.

Speaker 6

Just one follow-up question. So, I'm interested, which customers are investing more in the HBM capacity expansion now? Thank you.

Speaker 4

So, Jack, we have no knowledge of that. I mean, what you hear and what they make the announcement, this is really what we know. And obviously, we are under confidential agreement that we cannot disclose to who we sold and how many machines, and this is something that is confidential. So I will not be able to help you on this on this question.

Operator

Thanks, Jack.

Speaker 6

Thank you.

Speaker 4

Thank you.

Operator

Thanks. That concludes the question and answer session. Before I hand back to Rafi, I would just like to let you all know that within the next hour, the recording of this conference call will be accessible from the same link and also from the Investor Relations of Camtek's website at camtek.com. I would like to thank everybody for joining this call, and I would now like to hand back to Rafi for his closing statement. Rafi, please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Okay. I would like to thank you all for your continued interest in our business. I want to especially thanks to the employees and my management team for their tremendous performance. To our investor, I thank you for your long term support. I look forward to talking with you again next quarter.

Speaker 1

Thank you, and goodbye.

Powered by Quartr
Earnings Conference Call
Camtek Q1 2024
00:00 / 00:00