Textron Q2 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 18, 2024

There are 17 speakers on the call.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Textron Second Quarter 2024 Earnings Release Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

Operator

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Vice President, Investor Relations, Mr. Dave Rosenberg. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Craig, and good morning, everyone. Before we begin, I'd like to mention we will be discussing future estimates and expectations during our call today. These forward looking statements are subject to various risk factors, which are detailed in our SEC filings and also in today's press release. On the call today, we have Scott Donnelly, Textron's Chairman and CEO and Frank Connor, our Chief Financial Officer. Our earnings call presentation can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website.

Speaker 1

Revenues in the quarter were $3,500,000,000 up from $3,400,000,000 in last year's Q2. During this year's Q2, adjusted income from continuing operations was $1.54 per share compared to $1.46 per share in last year's Q2. Manufacturing cash flow before pension contributions totaled $320,000,000 in the quarter compared to $242,000,000 in the Q2 of 2023. With that, I'll turn the call over to Scott.

Speaker 2

Thanks, David, and good morning, everyone. Aviation had higher segment revenues of $1,500,000,000 generating a profit of $195,000,000 up $24,000,000 from the Q2 of 2023. We delivered 44 commercial turboprops up from 37 last year and 42 jets down from 44 last year's Q2, while aftermarket revenues grew 13%. Aviation continued to see strong demand across all product lines. Backlog ended the quarter at 7 $500,000,000 up $118,000,000 from the Q1 of this year.

Speaker 2

In the quarter, aviation began deliveries of the King Air 260 under the multi engine training systems contract for the U. S. Navy. To date, we've been awarded 35 aircraft to a possible 64 on the program. Also during the quarter, Aviation certified a third variant of the Sky carrier.

Speaker 2

Combivision allows operators to transport passengers and cargo simultaneously. Combined with the previously certified passenger and cargo variants, this latest variant continues to demonstrate the versatility of the aircraft to our customers. In June, Aviation completed the first flight of a Cessna Citation Ascend. The aircraft is the 1st conforming production flight test aircraft and represents significant milestones for the program. To date, we have completed over 400 hours of flight testing.

Speaker 2

At Bell, revenues and profit in the quarter were up as compared to the Q2 last year. On the commercial side, Bell delivered 32 helicopters, down from 35 in last year's Q2. Moving to military, Bell completed the FLAR preliminary design review, while also continuing to release engineering drawings and place orders for long new material as the program continues to ramp. In the quarter, Bell was down selected as 1 of 2 companies for the next phase of DARPA's Speed and Runway Independent Technologies X Plane program to create a prototype high speed vertical takeoff and landing aircraft for the U. S.

Speaker 2

Military. This program builds on Bell's success as the leader in tiltrotor technology. Textron Systems realized higher revenues while continuing to pursue new program opportunities in the quarter. Systems was awarded to options 34 for the FTOAS program in the 2nd quarter. This award includes delivery of an Aerosonde Hybrid Quad System to the U.

Speaker 2

S. Army for test and evaluation.

Speaker 3

As part

Speaker 2

of the Army's robotic combat vehicle competition, we announced a collaboration with Kodiak Robotics. Kodiak will integrate its industry leading autonomous system into a Tektron systems purpose built uncrewed military vehicle to demonstrate the autonomous operations later in 2024. Moving to industrial, we experienced lower revenues and operating profit in the quarter. As expected, we continue to see softer demand in our consumer and automotive end markets. We continue to execute on our cost reduction plan to position the cost structure for lower volume environment.

Speaker 2

As a result, we saw sequential margin improvement in Q2 and expect to see this improvement in the second half of twenty twenty four. Moving to aviation, during the quarter, we completed the acquisition of Amazilia Aerospace. The Amazilia team has expertise in digital flight controls, flight guidance and vehicle management systems for manned and unmanned aircraft. We plan on integrating the products and capabilities into our new platforms such as the Nuva and Surveyor. Nuva program reached a significant milestone with the completion of Vehicle 1 assembly.

Speaker 2

The prototype vehicle has entered ground testing, which supports anticipated hover flight later this year. With that, I'll turn the call over to Frank.

Speaker 4

Thanks, Scott, and good morning, everyone. Let's review how each of the segments contributed starting with Textron Aviation. Revenues at Textron Aviation of $1,500,000,000 were up $113,000,000 from the Q2 of 2023, reflecting higher pricing of 57,000,000 dollars and higher volume and mix of $56,000,000 Segment profit was $195,000,000 in the second quarter, up $24,000,000 from a year ago due to higher volume and mix of $35,000,000 and favorable pricing net of inflation of $22,000,000 partially offset by an unfavorable impact from performance of $33,000,000 Backlog in the segment ended the quarter at $7,500,000,000 up $118,000,000 from the Q1. Moving to Bell, revenues were $794,000,000 up $93,000,000 from last year, primarily due to higher military volume of $104,000,000 as we continue to ramp the FLAR program. Segment profit of $82,000,000 was up $17,000,000 from last year's 2nd quarter, largely due to a favorable impact from performance of $39,000,000 which included lower research and development costs, partially offset by mix.

Speaker 4

Backlog in the segment ended the quarter at $4,200,000,000 At Textron Systems, revenues were $323,000,000 up $17,000,000 from last year's Q2, largely due to higher volume of $14,000,000 Segment profit of $35,000,000 was down $2,000,000 from a year ago. Backlog in the segment ended the quarter at 1 point $1,000,000 down $112,000,000 from last year's Q2, mainly due to lower volume and mix of 119,000,000 dollars Segment profit of $42,000,000 was down $37,000,000 in the Q2 of 2023, primarily due to lower volume and mix. Textron E Aviation segment revenues were $9,000,000 and segment loss was $18,000,000 in the Q2 of 2024 compared to a segment loss $12,000,000 in the Q2 of 2023. Finance segment revenues were $12,000,000 and profit was 7,000,000 dollars Moving below segment profit, corporate expenses were $17,000,000 net interest expense for the manufacturing group was 20,000,000 dollars LIFO inventory provision was 27,000,000 dollars intangible asset amortization was $9,000,000 special charges related to the previously announced restructuring were $13,000,000 and the non service components of pension and post retirement income were $66,000,000 dollars In the quarter, we repurchased approximately 4,100,000 shares returning $358,000,000 in cash to shareholders. Year to date, we have repurchased approximately 7,700,000 shares returning $675,000,000 in cash to shareholders.

Speaker 4

That concludes our prepared remarks. So Greg, we can open the line for questions.

Operator

Your first question comes from the line of Peter Arment from Baird. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Yes. Good morning, Scott and Frank. Nice results. If Scott, you booked a bill over 1 in Aviation, maybe you could just give us a little color on what you're seeing in the market environment and any color on pricing and what aftermarket also did in the quarter?

Speaker 2

Sure, Peter. Look, I think the end market continues to be robust. We're seeing strong demand in jets, turboprops. It's pretty much across all models and across the whole family of products, which is great. Strong response to a lot of the upgrades we've done here recently in terms of existing models.

Speaker 2

And obviously, we'll expect as we go in the back half of the year to see continued strength in new launches like the Ascend and such. So I would say, again, as much as we've seen for the last couple of years, we're still sort of targeting that one to one area, but robust demand, which is great. Aircraft are flying, so we continue to see strength in the service business as well. 13% is particularly strong in the quarter, but we feel good about where that's been performing. So again, across I think the whole portfolio is doing pretty good in terms of the end market.

Speaker 4

That's great. And then just a

Speaker 5

quick one for Frank. Your CapEx, I think you're $140,000,000 for the first half of the year. I think your guidance is $425,000,000 Just so what is are you coming in at a slower pace or then kind of the guidance or plans to step up and outside of maybe FluorA, what are the main drivers of the step up? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Well, we'll continue to see growth in the second half of the year. Obviously, as reflected in those numbers, we're a little slower in the first half than we expected. We tend to be a bit back end loaded in CapEx though. So we will see growth in the second half. There's probably a little opportunity in that kind of full year number given the pace, but for now, that's a number we'll stick with.

Speaker 5

Appreciate the color. Thanks guys.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of David Strauss from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Thanks. Good morning. Good morning, Scott. Good morning. Scott, can you just give us an update on supply chain at both Aviation and Bell?

Speaker 2

Sure, David. Look, it's still problematic. There's fewer problems probably than we used to have, but there are still parts that are from suppliers that continue to give us some heartache with late deliveries and that does create some of these issues around flow in the factory and rework and out of out of sequence kind of things. But what we've been managing through that unfortunately now for a number of years, it does continue to drag on our performance in the Aviation business, particularly the performance numbers continue to see factoring efficiencies that we would like to get resolved. But I think the team, all in all, is working through that.

Speaker 2

We're still able to drive higher revenue and higher profit margins. So I think all in all, the business is performing well despite it's still a tough environment. I think you see most companies reporting and continue to see some challenges in the supply chain, still a lot of new people, a lot of training inefficiencies and things like that, but we're working our way through it. Same thing at Bell, we have a number of deliveries that we missed. We were missing some key components, but we're working with those suppliers.

Speaker 2

And as I said, the number of them are getting smaller, but in this industry, every part is important. So we're continuing to have to work our way around some late deliveries of parts coming in. But as I said, I think all in all, our team's operational are fighting through that and getting most of their deliveries done and continue to drive good margins. So we'll keep our heads down and keep fighting through that through the course of the year, I think.

Speaker 6

Okay. Thanks for that. And your first half jet deliveries are relatively flat year over year. Are you still expecting higher jet deliveries for the year? And could you maybe comment on Latitude and specifically the deliveries were lighter year over year there, which was a bit surprising?

Speaker 6

Thanks.

Speaker 2

Look, I think we'll we are still expecting to have higher unit deliveries in 2024 than we had in 2023. I would say for sure, David, we're a little behind where we would like to be on a couple of these models. Latitude is one in particular where we had a few deliveries towards the end of the quarter that we didn't get out and they've now gone. But we're working those lines hard and addressing some of the issues. Latitude specifically had one item that we had to kind of manage our way through, and I do think we'll see improved performance on that line through the balance of the year.

Speaker 2

So bottom line is that we will still we will have higher unit deliveries and I think overall good mix and performance of the business despite all that will show strong margin performance on a year over year basis.

Speaker 6

Great. Thanks very much.

Speaker 7

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Sheila Kahyaoglu from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Good morning, guys. Thank you so much. Maybe to start on Aviation. Aviation profitability has been really good, 13.2 in the quarter, I think 150 basis points of net price. So how do we think about the puts and takes as we go into the second half?

Speaker 8

And is this sort of low teens a new level for aviation profitability?

Speaker 2

Well, I do think the team is performing well, right? I mean, we've got revenues up, margin is up, backlog is up. So we feel pretty good about where the business is. As I said in my answer to David's question, it's not always easy. We're still dealing with challenges in supply chain and things of that nature.

Speaker 2

But I do think that we'll see continued strong margins on a year over year basis as we go through the balance of the year. And again, we're feeling good about where the business is. I wish it was easier, it's not, but the guys are working through it. And I do think that we'll see strong margins. I think we still feel good about our guide.

Speaker 2

We still think this is probably a $6,000,000,000 business this year. I think we'll be well within the guide on the margin front. As we said earlier in the year, I think the price inflation spread, you'll see that getting smaller as the year goes on. But again, I think that'll be in part offset by the fact that we'll continue to drive better efficiencies and performance through the factory.

Speaker 8

Great. And then maybe one on Bell and just the military portfolio there outside of Florida. How do you think about V-twenty two and opportunities there elsewhere in the military side?

Speaker 2

So I think the balance of the military business outside of Florida is doing well, right? I mean, we did add the H1s from Nigeria, so that's 12 aircraft. We're able to start ramping that here this year. We saw some benefit of that in the quarter as that program starts to ramp up. B-twenty two production is still going along.

Speaker 2

Obviously, the 5 aircraft that were in FY 24 have now been added. So we look at that as adding a little bit of base. The cell improvement program continues to go. I think we'll see broader adaptation of or acceptance of that here as we go into the future. So I think there's work going on in FY 'twenty five budget and beyond that will provide some upgrade opportunities on V-twenty two as well as H-one.

Speaker 2

Saw the announcements around SIPU. So I do think, well, the production unit volumes obviously will continue to ramp down. We will see some good flow of upgrade and modernization efforts on both the H1 and the V-twenty two lines that will help to make that keep that solid as we start to ramp it and really more move towards a production mode of the flower program.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Myles Walton from Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Thanks. Good morning. I was wondering, Scott, if you could talk about the aftermarket growth. You mentioned 13%, which is pretty good acceleration given utilization is decelerating. Was there anything or is there anything that's driving that whether that's non typical on the military side or mandates or anything of that nature?

Speaker 2

I think all in all, Miles, we're continuing to see good growth in the aftermarket business. Demand continues to be strong, aircraft are flying. We did have a strong military quarter, in particular, as we build the spares pool around the Mets program for the Navy contract. But it's just in general strong on the aftermarket side. Demand is there.

Speaker 2

Again, people are flying, so consumption is up, people are doing shop visits. So I think we feel and we're in a very good place in terms of the aftermarket overall.

Speaker 3

Okay. And then I guess on the performance disclosure, the $33,000,000 drag, I know this can get a little bit apples to oranges comparison, but does that imply that performance actually deteriorated sequentially or didn't improve as much as you had in your baseline plan?

Speaker 2

Miles, look, the performance category is a messy one, as you know, right? So there's a lot of stuff in there. For sure, some of it is just some of those efficiencies that we talked about, right? I mean, we're still not at our standard cost where we would like to be. So part of that number, for sure, reflects some manufacturing variance.

Speaker 2

But as you know, there's also a lot of other stuff in there, right? I mean, the business continues to grow. So if you look at on a year over year basis, SG and A, IRAD, these numbers, which are in line on a percent of sales basis, but those actual dollar values on a year over year basis also go through that performance line. So there's natural growth in SG and A, there's natural growth in IRAD. What there was a legal settlement in there quarter.

Speaker 2

So there's always lots of $3,000,000 $4,000,000 $5,000,000 things that go through there, most of which you would kind of expect in a business that's growing and continuing to invest.

Speaker 3

Okay, got it. Thanks so much.

Speaker 9

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Doug Harned from Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Good morning. Thank you. On the Ascend, you introduced the Ascend at Ebay. And I thought that was interesting. Europe is only about, I think about 7% of aviation revenues.

Speaker 10

How are you looking at international markets, particularly Europe, Asia? Do you see those for aviation as potentially offering a bigger share of your total revenues?

Speaker 2

So Doug, I don't know if it will change dramatically that overall share of revenue. The jet business obviously has always been more North American centric. South America has usually been our 2nd biggest market than Europe, 3rd behind that. So specifically, as you look at Ascend, I think we'll see a similar spread of share much as we saw over many years with the XLS family. This really the Ascend, in essence, takes that historical product, which has been a home run for us, probably the most popular business jet in the world and modernizes it, gives us great new cockpits, a little bit of thrust bump in the engine side, a much better cabin with a flat floor and larger windows.

Speaker 2

I mean everything I think customers will love everything about that aircraft from crews to passengers performance. But I would expect we will see sort of the same kind of share because it really is the product that is hugely strong in that midsize business jet market. But that is still largely a North American market and then secondarily South American and then European. So I would expect we'll see that same kind of share position across all those key segments with the Ascend as we used to see with the XLS family.

Speaker 10

And then on Skycourier, I mean Skycourier seems to be you're sort of expanding the envelope in which it can serve. How do you ultimately see that market in terms of scale? And how large could that the Sky courier fleet ultimately be?

Speaker 2

Well, I think it's going to be a very big market. I mean, if you look at the acceptance of that product, I mean, right now, we're just trying to make them as fast as we can make them. The demand has been really strong. And I mean, it's been great to see delegates everything from the pure cargo version. I mean, this thing is a beast In terms of moving cargo around the world, we're seeing a lot of acceptance on sort of small regional airlines, 19 packs, seating and then obviously what we did here most recently with the combi is you have a lot of markets where they need to move packs, but they also need to move cargo and that's exactly what the combi was aimed at.

Speaker 2

So right now, I think both domestic, international markets, cargo packs, now the combi, the issue for us with SkyCar is just continue to ramp up the production volumes. The demand is there across all those segments and in a lot of different geographies.

Operator

Okay. Very good. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Seth Seifman from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Operator

Hey, thanks very much and good morning.

Speaker 1

Good morning, Seth.

Operator

Phil. I was wondering if you could talk a

Speaker 11

little bit more about the potential, where the margin can go in the industrial segment in the second half, kind of how much of the benefit of the cost cutting program that you felt like we saw in the Q2 and how much is still on the comp?

Speaker 2

Well, Chuck, I mean, I don't know if I'll give you an exact number, but we certainly continue to we expect to see it continue to grow as we move through the year. We're not expecting a miraculous turnaround in the end market demand. We're watching that very closely. So if you look at the numbers Frank kind of went through, we've done about a third of the restructuring costs incurred here in Q2. We'll see another big chunk of that for the most part in the back half of this year as we continue to take cost out of the business to align with that volume.

Speaker 2

But I think when you look at that, it's probably going to generate we're probably still running 100 basis points or something below where we should be. And I think the cost actions that we're taking will square that away. So it's the strategy right now is keep taking the cost actions. Don't assume that you see some miraculous turnaround in terms of that end consumer demand and just keep driving sequentially improved margins.

Operator

Okay, great. And then maybe just as

Speaker 11

a quick follow-up, very good order activity year to date in Aviation. Is there anything you'd say to distinguish where the order activity is coming from with regard to either fleet customers versus individual customers?

Speaker 2

No, we're still seeing the spread is strong pretty much across all the customer base and both jet and turboprop. So it's pretty well across all characteristics, no matter how you want to kind of slice and dice. It's looking to be continually continued strong demand.

Operator

Excellent. Well, thanks very much.

Speaker 2

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Noah Poponak from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning, everyone.

Speaker 2

Good morning, Noah. Good morning, Noah.

Speaker 12

The business jet output just remains, I guess, low relative to how strong demand is and where the backlog is. Are lead times getting long enough that it's an issue for some customers and you're losing some sales on that? Or do you sort of just not care about that because you're managing to price and the margins are good and you're okay on that front?

Speaker 2

Well, I mean, I think largely no, this is an industry phenomenon, right? I mean, if you're out there, if you had a dramatically different lead time, you might be disadvantaged, but I think everybody is dealing with the same issues. So we're still out there, obviously, with a book to bill above 1. We're selling, but we're delivering aircraft, but we're continuing to take orders into that those out years. So it's I'd say right now, it's pretty well balanced.

Speaker 2

And I don't think we're at a competitive advantage or disadvantage right now in terms of availability. We're all out competing. But in the time line, obviously, based on the backlog, it's out there 1.5 years, 2 years in many cases.

Speaker 12

Okay. The additional H1 orders at Bell, can you speak to roughly what that adds annually and how far out in the future that will go?

Speaker 2

No, I don't think so. No, I mean the Nigerian order was 12 aircraft. The upgrade programs like SIPU, that will go on for quite a number of years. But I mean, those aren't all appropriated. So I don't think I would get into that.

Speaker 2

The same, I would say, on the V-twenty two program, right? We think there's missile improvement opportunities. There's a number of other things that are in dialogue with our V-twenty two customers on enhancements. Everybody knows that aircraft is going to be around for a very, very long time. And so like any military platform, you would expect ongoing investment upgrades, enhancements.

Speaker 2

But these are all dialogues and programs that will flow over the year. So I don't think I would necessarily start to get into a multiyear forecast on those.

Speaker 12

Okay. And then, just last one. Does it make sense to walk through the math on the shadow decommission just so that's modeled correctly? How much comes out? What does it do to the margins?

Speaker 12

Did that affect the second quarter? Any clarity you can provide there?

Speaker 2

So, look, I mean, from a modeling standpoint, Noah, this is about a $50,000,000 business or something like that, right? So I mean, we're we've already obviously worked our way through most of what the revenue is going to be this year as we wound down from Q1 to Q2. So I'd say it's fairly de minimis as we go through the balance of the year. Again, I think this is one where if you look at that team from our original guide absorbed that loss of the shadow, which kind of came out of nowhere, obviously, from our perspective. And we've seen enough growth in all of the other business within systems try to make up for that revenue and obviously continue to hold a good margin business.

Speaker 2

So I think the team has largely got shadow unfortunately is largely behind us and the team managed their way through that and has positioned us to at least continue to operate the business well. And again, most importantly, probably in systems focus on those new programs like the FTUSs, RCVs, the ARV, XM30. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on in that business that has opportunity. But I would say largely the way you model is we've sort of have absorbed the loss of the shadow program. Okay.

Speaker 2

Yes, that looked

Speaker 12

mathematically a little tough to do at least in the very near term. So, yes, that's impressive. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Cai von Rumohr from Cowen and Company. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Yes. Thanks so much. So, Scott, you guys have been kind of warning about margins. Don't get ahead of yourself because the inefficiencies that we experienced in the second half of last year are going to flow through inventory into the P and L and that will restrain margins. Looks like that didn't really occur.

Speaker 13

Although I know mix was a plus. And as presumably your efficiencies are improving, even if not as much as we'd hoped, should we be looking for a good improvement in the second half from diminishing flow through of kind of inefficiencies, so that even though I assume the mix is negative given you got more latitudes, but so you could basically sustain this 13% type margin?

Speaker 2

Well, look, I think that the 13% is extremely strong, right? I'm not sure I would say that we're going to maintain 13% as we go through the balance of the year. But I think it's going to be solidly in that sort of that mid-12s kind of range. So for sure, we will have some, as I said earlier, probably less price inflation spread than we had. And part of that, frankly, is some mix.

Speaker 2

We do have a lot of latitude deliveries, a number of which are heavy on the fractional side in particularly in Q3. And as you know, those have lower margin than retail latitude. So there's always some headwinds, but there's also good things that are going on. So I think this business is well within the guide that we put out there despite the ongoing inefficiencies. And at a mid-twelve percent margin, we feel like this business is performing well, generating strong margin, generating good revenue growth, generating continued strong backlog.

Speaker 2

So I think the guide that we had out there, which I think we're clearly still on track to deliver is shows that business in a very good place.

Speaker 13

Terrific. And then secondly, you continue to be aggressive actually even more aggressive in terms of share repurchase. You bought 258,000,000, 4,100,000 shares. So you're basically whacking away at a 5% rate. What should we expect in terms of the repo in the second half?

Speaker 2

I think we'll continue to focus on that repo, Cai. Look, we're generating we're getting good strong cash flow. We feel very good about where the business is on a cash standpoint. What we do to some small acquisitions of Amazilia, relatively small dollars that adds some real capability to the e aviation business. Frankly, technology will help us not just the e aviation, but I think also at Textron Aviation as well as future opportunities at Bell.

Speaker 2

So but these are small dollars. Clearly, the bulk of the strong cash flow generation that we have right now were allocated to the buyback, and I think we'll continue to do that.

Speaker 13

Thank you very much.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Ron Epstein from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Yes. Hello. Can you hear me?

Speaker 2

Good morning, Ron.

Speaker 7

Yes. Good. Perfect. Sorry.

Speaker 6

Yes, maybe

Speaker 7

just a couple of quick ones. Could you do a bigger version of SkyCourier? I guess, is there any demand for that from your customers?

Speaker 2

I don't know that we need to do a bigger version of it.

Speaker 4

It's a big aircraft.

Speaker 2

He just has to Next to one of those guys. But I mean, from just from a regulatory standpoint, I mean, where it fits, first of all, it fits really, really well in that short haul cargo market. Obviously, we work very closely with FedEx and particularly on designing that aircraft. So it was really designed to be in that 3LD 3 container kind of space where it fits really, really well. And then on the PAC side, from a regulatory standpoint, you hit that 19 PACS line and this thing comfortably takes care of 19 passengers.

Speaker 2

So I think to do anything bigger than that, now you sort of start to step up into the ATR world and things like that. And I don't think that's really our space. I think the where there was a huge gap in the market was really when you went from our caravan, which obviously has been a home run-in that smaller cargo and packs market and then up into that sort of light air transport

Speaker 4

kind of

Speaker 2

side, we felt like Skykura is in the sweet spot of that. So and we're seeing that from a market demand standpoint.

Speaker 7

Got it. And then on Aviation, how do I frame this? It seems like we're in a unique environment where for me for you guys, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but everybody that you have no white sales, everything going down lines is owned. Have you ever experienced that before if that's the case?

Speaker 2

Well, I think you have to probably go back to 2,007, Ron, to be there. But look, this is a business and we talked about this for years, right, Ron? This shouldn't be a whitetail business, right? I mean, it wasn't in most of its most of the history of BusinessJazz was not a whitetail business. I think what happened sort of financial crisis, post financial crisis wasn't how that business should operate.

Speaker 2

This business should operate off of a depending on the model types, anywhere from 12 months, 18 months to 2 year kind of a backlog, So that you know when an aircraft is rolling down that line, where it's going. And that's where we are. And I think that's where the industry should stay. It's and again, this is not a new idea, right? This is how this industry worked for decades, and it's certainly good to have it back where it's supposed to be.

Speaker 7

Yes, that's great. And then if I can, just one last quick one. Just curious, you mentioned that the aviation, some of the technology investments you might make inorganically could flow back to just broader Textron Aviation. Can you highlight anything that you're learning in that business that could actually help outside of the aviation, just broader aviation?

Speaker 2

Sure. I like the nature of what we're doing, particularly with unmanned things like Nuva and when you look at the levels of automation that we believe need to be in things like Nexus, these are very highly automated fly by wire, digital flight control, almost autonomous. Even if there's not a person even if there is a person in the cockpit like in the NEXUS case, it's still in essence, the capability of the aircraft is inherently autonomous. So when you look at the Ambazilia guys, this is an area of expertise that they had. But we've done this.

Speaker 2

We've done a lot of fly by wire on V-twenty 2, for instance. Obviously, the V-two eighty is all fly by wire. The 525 is the 1st commercial helicopter in the world is fly by wire. So we have capability in the company to do this. But I think as we go forward, not just for these things like Nexus and like Nuva, but future families of products or enhancements upgrades to products is going to see more and more levels of fly by wire, digital control, quasi autonomous capability, but it needs to be a much lower price point than what you've seen in these high end, very expensive systems.

Speaker 2

And so that's the technology that we're using, developing and working both through the acquisition and the implementation on things like Nuva Nexus are fundamental technologies that will, I believe, you'll start to see in the lower price point, both fixed wing and rotorcraft markets in the future.

Speaker 7

Okay, cool. Thank you very much. Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Kristine Liwag from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Speaker 14

Hey, good morning, everyone. Scott and Frank, I mean, the strength in Aviation is clear. Scott, you mentioned and Ron's question that look, we're kind of almost back at that pre financial crisis levels, regarding the backlog. If you take out the performance headwind that you highlighted in quarter, margins at Aviation would have been 15.5%. I mean, this is also back to 3 kind of financial crisis levels margin.

Speaker 14

So I guess, when the performance headwinds tail off and the backlog continues to hold secure, is the mid teens margin kind of the new normal in aviation?

Speaker 2

Well, Christine, I guess what I would say is, look, some of those performance items for sure are associated with these factoring efficiencies. And we do expect over time for those things to get better. As we get better supply chain deliveries, as our workforce becomes more seasoned again. So I do think there will continue to be underlying improvements going forward in those areas.

Speaker 4

But as I also said, some

Speaker 2

of these things around performance are also just fundamentally associated with the growth of the business, right? We are to see more sales commissions when we have more sales. And we are going to see R and D, again, not necessarily a headwind from a percent of sales standpoint, but you're going to see higher R and D numbers as we continue to invest in the business. So but look, I think the bottom line answer to your question, Christine, is we're not going to put a number out there right now. But clearly, over the last few years, we continue to see improvements in the margin performance of this business.

Speaker 2

And I think it's reasonable to expect that we'll continue to see that going forward.

Speaker 14

Thank you. That's really helpful context. And then maybe pivoting to a defense question. The European defense budget seems to be moving higher, a little faster and steeper than the U. S.

Speaker 14

Defense budget. I guess, how do you think about opportunities for European sales? It hasn't been a huge part of your portfolio historically. But with the leverage of the business pretty low, what's also your interest in expanding European capabilities either organically or inorganically?

Speaker 2

Well, I mean, we do have a number of sales campaigns that go on in Europe. It's not, as you noted, has not been a huge part of our business in the past. I do think as you look at foreign military sales opportunity, things like the flower program, clearly that's a big part of where the Army is focused is looking at partner countries around the world. And just as we saw for many, many decades, things like the Blackhawk become really important parts of those businesses from international sales perspective, including Europe. We obviously will expect that to happen over time.

Speaker 2

There's also some organic things. So again, if you look at rotorcraft again, I guess, right now, we did announce sort of a teaming relationship with Leonardo around pursuit of the European next generation rotorcraft opportunity. So that's kind of organic, but that would be a product that's tailored to that European market. So I do think there are opportunities out there and we are pursuing those and we'll compete for those going forward.

Speaker 14

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of George Shapiro from Shapiro Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Good morning.

Speaker 2

Good morning, George.

Speaker 9

Scott, the year to date orders have been about $3,000,000,000 in Aviation, about the same as last year's first half. Do you think you can reach the $1,860,000,000 of orders that you had in last year's Q3, which was particularly strong?

Speaker 2

George, I don't know. I mean, we're as we've kind of guided, we think this is going to end up as a one to 1 year. That's still our view. So if you look at order activities last year, they were stronger than that. But I do think we're again, our expectation is we're in sort of a more normalized world here where one to 1 is a good book to bill target.

Speaker 2

We are coming through the first half of the year strong, which is great. I mean, I'd love to see that continue, obviously, but I don't think necessarily $1,600,000,000 a quarter is probably pretty sporty.

Speaker 9

Okay. And then maybe one for you Frank that inventories year to date are up like $467,000,000 obviously less than the second quarter with better deliveries, but still up $110,000,000 in the second quarter. I mean for the end of the year, do you expect that inventory level to come down to close to where it was at the end of last year's at the end of last year? Or we're going to say $100,000,000 a couple of $100,000,000 above it? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Well, we'll certainly expect to liquidate inventory in the back half of the year. But in order to kind of grow the business for next year, we need inventory in order to sell products. So we obviously, that obviously that offsets from working capital in other areas. So we think working capital is kind of flattish type number for the year. Obviously, there are all sets and payables and other things associated with that, but we do need some inventory growth in order to grow the business.

Speaker 9

And one last one. Industrial in the Q1, you pretty much said was primarily weak because of special vehicles. This quarter you kind of said, you didn't say that. So do we assume that both Kautex and special vehicles were relatively weak in this quarter?

Speaker 4

Well, Kautex was down on a year over year basis, but it wasn't particularly weak. It was just we had a very strong Q2 last year, frankly, both in specialized vehicles and Kautex. So you had a really tough compare from both a volume standpoint as well as a margin standpoint. But Kautex on a sequential basis was up quarter over quarter, but it was down a bit on a year over year basis. But specialized vehicle was down kind of more on a year over year basis, coming off a very strong Q2 last year.

Speaker 9

Okay. Thanks very much.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Pete Skibitski from Olympic Global. Please go ahead.

Speaker 15

Hey, good morning guys.

Speaker 4

Good morning, Pete.

Speaker 15

Hey, Scott, as we think about some of the softness in the consumer that you're experiencing at TSV, maybe to your Caltech's comments as well, less so, but you guys aren't seeing that extend to any of your aviation customers at all. And not even on the pistons or the turboprops. I'm asking in particular because it seems like deliveries on your lighter jets and aviation, that citation in the first half were a little bit lighter year over year versus the larger jets. So I just wanted to understand how you're seeing the health of your customers there. Obviously, they have bigger balance sheets, but I just want to get a sense.

Speaker 2

Yes, Pete. I'd say when you look at our lighter aircraft, I mean M2, CJ3, CJ4, we're seeing strong demand. So book to bill on those guys is good. Even pistons, I mean, for the most part, we're just trying to make them faster, right? I mean, the piston aircraft training demand remains very high, right?

Speaker 2

It's very hard to find a 172 anywhere. So I think the piston side of the business is good, the light jet side of the business is good. It's that again, these are people with stronger balance sheets, obviously, and looking out over time and there's backlog, so you can't even get one for a year, 18 months, whatever it may be, even in the lighter jet side of things. So we continue to see good order flow there. It's that discretionary sort of point of sale kind of consumer generally financed kind of market that's just that's down.

Speaker 2

As I said, we're aligning costs around that. As Frank said, it's tough, particularly this quarter. We had a really strong quarter for a lot of those kind of products a year ago. It's softer now, and so we've made necessary cost and production volume alignments to match that. But no, we're absolutely not seeing that behavior when you look at light jets or Bell 505s, Bell 407s, I mean the market for those even the sort of the lower price point jets and rotorcraft continue to do very well.

Speaker 15

Okay, okay. Interesting. Last one for me just on GBSD. It looks like Sentinel looks like it passed its non McCurdy review. Any change that you guys expect to the program profile for you guys?

Speaker 2

No, I don't. We're continuing to work very closely with Northrop. I think the program is progressing well. We've had a number of things that have added scope to what we originally had been on the program. So I think we have a great relationship with these guys.

Speaker 2

That piece of the program is going well. As you guys know, I mean, just in the media, a lot of the cost issues around the infrastructure as opposed to the missile itself have been a big issue. So for sure, there are scheduled challenges, which I think are well documented. Northam talks about them, their customer talks about them. But we continue to, I think, execute well on the program, see scope increases on the program and are continuing to make good progress on our piece of the overall weapon system.

Speaker 15

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 7

Sure.

Operator

And your final question today comes from the line of Gavin Parsons from UBS. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Thank you. Good morning.

Speaker 9

Good morning.

Speaker 16

It sounded like Aviation Guide in line with the initial thoughts, industrial margin maybe a little below, but can you just kind of go around the horn a little bit and update what's tracking above or below to allow you to stay in the guidance range?

Speaker 2

Yes. I mean, I think you actually did a pretty good job there. I think the aviation guys are well within their guide and having a great year. I think that Bell and Systems will probably come in a little bit above their guide, strong performance in both those business. As we've talked about, we'll probably be a little below the guide on the Industrial segment just because of lower volume, particularly in that consumer space.

Speaker 2

But net, I think we feel pretty good about where things are and most businesses are performing really well.

Speaker 16

Okay. Appreciate it. And then maybe just on pricing on orders, it seems like you're still getting maybe mid single digits on deliveries. Is it a similar level what's going into the backlog today?

Speaker 2

Yes. I mean, we're probably not going to give price forecasting, but I would certainly say price continues to be strong in the marketplace.

Speaker 3

Okay. Thank you. Great.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this conference will be available for replay after 10 am Eastern Time today through July 18, 2025. You may access the AT and T executive replay system at any time by dialing 1-866 207-ten forty one and entering the access code 4306,608. International participants dial 402-970-0847. Those numbers once again are 1-866 207-1041 or 402-970-0847 with the access code 4306,608. That does conclude your conference for today.

Operator

Thank you for your participation and for using AT and T Teleconference. You may now

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Earnings Conference Call
Textron Q2 2024
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