Consensus Cloud Solutions Q2 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
August 8, 2024

Key Takeaways

  • Q2 outperformance: Consensus surpassed both revenue and adjusted EBITDA targets with a 56.1% adjusted EBITDA margin, exceeding the high end of its 50–55% target and boosting free cash flow by over $11 million year-over-year.
  • Corporate channel growth: Record Q2 corporate revenue of $51.7 million was driven by 2,700 new eCommerce (eFax Protect) customers, stable ARPA at $3.10, and steady progress on the VA’s ECFAX rollout, forecasted to generate over $2 million in 2024.
  • SoHo channel optimization: Q2 SoHo revenue declined 15.8% to $35.8 million following planned marketing cuts, yet ARPA improved to $14.97 and churn fell to 3.4%, reflecting enhanced marketing efficiency and LTV/CAC metrics.
  • Debt reduction strategy: Since November 2023 Consensus has repurchased $156 million of bonds, cutting total debt to $649 million and lowering its net debt/adjusted EBITDA leverage to 3.1×.
  • 2024 guidance reaffirmed: Full-year revenue is projected at $338 million–$350 million with adjusted EBITDA of $182 million–$194 million, while adjusted EPS guidance was raised to $5.45–$5.55.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Consensus Cloud Solutions Q2 2024
00:00 / 00:00

There are 7 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Consensus Q2 twenty twenty four Earnings Call. My name is Paul, and I will be the operator assisting you today. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. On this call from consensus will be Scott Turicchi, CEO Jim Malone, CFO Johnny Hecker, CRO and Executive Vice President of Operations and Adam Varon, Senior Vice President of Finance.

Operator

I will now turn the call over to Adam Varon, Senior Vice President of Finance at Consensus. Thank you. You may begin.

Speaker 1

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Consensus investor call to discuss our Q2 2024 financial results, other key information, our Q3 2024 quarterly guidance and full year 2024 guidance. Joining me today are Scott Turicchi, CEO Johnny Hecker, CRO and EVP of Operations and Jim Malone, CFO. The earnings call will begin with Scott providing opening remarks. Johnny will give an update on operational progress since our Q1 2024 investor call, and then Jim will discuss Q2 2024 financial results, our Q3 2024 quarterly and full year 2024 guidance. After we finish our prepared remarks, we will conduct a Q and A session.

Speaker 1

At that time, the operator will instruct you on the procedures for asking a question. Before we begin our prepared remarks, allow me to direct you to our forward looking statements and risk factors on Slide 2. As you know, this call and the webcast will include forward looking statements. Such statements may involve risks and uncertainties that would cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results. Some of those risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, the risk factors that we have disclosed in our 10 ks SEC filing.

Speaker 1

Now let me turn the call over to Scott.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Adam. We had a strong Q2 outperforming on both channels of revenue, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted earnings, adjusted EPS and free cash flow. As we laid out in our Q4 earnings call, our goals for this year include the following. 1st, eliminating certain costs of the SoHo channel, especially in the area of marketing to provide for stabilization of the base of revenue over time. 2nd, continuing to pursue the acquisition of customers primarily in the healthcare space for our corporate channel.

Speaker 2

3rd, reviewing and improving our overall cost structure with the goal of driving adjusted EBITDA margins to the higher end of our 50% to 55% range. And 4th, continuing to repurchase our debt to further reduce our total debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio in anticipation of the first tranche maturing in October 2026. Let me provide a few additional highlights before turning the call over to Johnny. Our corporate channel continue to add new customers primarily through upgrades from our SoHo base as well as our relatively new e commerce offering eFax Protect. Notwithstanding the lower ARPA of these customers than our current average, we were still able to maintain a $3.10 ARPA and a tight range over the past several quarters of between $305 $3.20 We continue to see additional sites from the VA rolling out driving new levels of usage and revenue.

Speaker 2

Our SOHO revenues beat our expectations for the quarter. I would remind you that in Q2, 2023, we finished the price increase to our base and actually saw a slight growth in revenues versus Q2 2022. As we stated at the time, we viewed this growth as anomalous. We continue to track ahead of our 2023 budget and have found additional marketing opportunities while maintaining a strong LTV to CAC. We were able to substantially reduce our marketing spend and still generate 61,000 paid ads more than Q4 2023 and similar to Q3 2023, which had higher levels of spend.

Speaker 2

Our cost structure benefited from a full quarter of the cost optimization that we discussed on our Q4 call. As a reminder, most of those cost reductions came primarily from the SOHO marketing mentioned earlier. The result was a 4.7 percentage point pickup on our adjusted EBITDA margin to 56.1 percent for the quarter, which is above the upper end of our long term range. The combination of improved adjusted EBITDA, strong cash collections and retirement of debt allowed us to improve our free cash flow by more than $11,000,000 from Q2 2023. We were able to repurchase an additional $29,700,000 of debt during the quarter.

Speaker 2

This brings our total repurchases since launching the program in November of 2023 to $156,000,000 and reducing our outstanding total debt to $649,000,000 or 3.4 times our trailing 12 month adjusted EBITDA and 3.1 times on a net debt basis. I will now turn the call over to Johnny, who will provide you more operating details.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Scott, and hello, everyone. Today, I will share business and go to market updates covering both our corporate and SoHo businesses, along with more details on the public sector, specifically the VA rollout and some product enhancements. Let's start by sharing our sales and operations update and then on the solid performance in the corporate business. We are pleased to report revenue of $51,700,000 versus $50,400,000 last year for Q2, marking an approximate 3% increase over the same period last year. This outcome serves as a testament to use cases for Cloud Fax in corporate settings, especially in healthcare.

Speaker 3

I am most pleased with the increase in the variable portion of our revenues indicating mostly upmarket growth. It marks another record setting quarter for our corporate business, emphasizing the unwavering strength and effectiveness of our offerings. The e commerce and sell how upsell strategy continues to be a valuable source of customer acquisition with approximately 2,700 customers added in Q2, demonstrating the effectiveness of our strategy. During the last call, we projected a decline in our SoHo to corporate upsell during Q2 due to planned operational changes. However, the growth of our eFax Protect service helped us offset the slowdown to a large extent.

Speaker 3

We will continue to invest in and expand this e commerce offering, which aligns with the go to market realignment strategy we shared last year. The next phase of this offering will include in product upsell options for our customers, eliminating the need for in person interaction with customers for that process. The metrics we share reveal that the growth in corporate accounts driven by those new customers at the lower end of our customer continuum also leads to a higher corporate cancellation rate. It has increased by 103 basis points year over year and 37 basis points quarter over quarter, reaching 2.29% in the Q2 of 2024. Normalized for eFax Protect, the cancel rate in corporate remained significantly below the 2% mark.

Speaker 3

I would remind you that our cancellation rate is based on accounts and not on revenue. We foresaw this trend with the launch of the e commerce channel and are pleased to report that corporate ARPA has remained steady for several quarters within the $305 to $3.20 range at just above $3.10 this quarter. During Q2, advanced products accounted for 14% of new sales, aligning with the performance of the second half of the last year, while being lower than the Q1 contribution. This temporary slowdown is mainly attributed to our Unite offering after a strong sales performance in Q1. It's important to note that this percentage fluctuates and is also influenced by the new sales of our core fax services.

Speaker 3

Overall, we're on track with the execution of our go to market plan in 2024. We're increasingly closing customers in the lower ARPA spectrum through fully automated e commerce processes, allowing for our sales team to focus on larger deals, driving up overall sales productivity. I'd also like to highlight our public sector business. The implementation of EC facts at the VA is proceeding as planned and our enthusiasm for its potential remains unwavering. We are observing steady growth in line with our projections and we confidently confirm that we forecast more than $2,000,000 in revenue from the ECFAX program in 2024 and expect continued growth in the coming months years as we move forward.

Speaker 3

ECFAX stands out as the sole CloudFAX solution on the FedRAMP marketplace with the additional exceptional distinction of complying with the high impact level controls. This attests to the utmost level of security, integrity and availability vital for government agencies operating in sensitive sectors like law enforcement, healthcare, finance and defense. As we advance our relationships with these agencies, it becomes increasingly apparent that meeting the FedRAMP high impact standard is a prerequisite for even being considered as a potential solution by the government. We are pleased to share that discussions with other agencies are proceeding. We are witnessing heightened demand for our solutions in a second relevant area of the public sector, state and local government and education.

Speaker 3

This prompts us to explore strengthening our emphasis on the public sector as a critical pillar in our corporate business beyond healthcare and commercial as we approach our 2025 planning process. Regarding our core fax business, we remain committed to investing in the ongoing development and enhancement of our cloud fax platform. Adopting a fully cloudified approach has demonstrated to be the optimal strategy, particularly in terms of scalability, resilience and innovation. We consistently strive to enhance the platform, keeping our customers' best interest at the forefront, while ensuring our continued economic success. We continue to receive robust interest in our AI offering Clarity, which leverages our proprietary LLM and related technologies to unlock valuable insights from unstructured data.

Speaker 3

Customers and potential clients are particularly intrigued by the possibility of tailoring clariti's models to their specific use cases, enabling them to extract actionable intelligence and automate workflows in ways never before possible. This heightened interest is reflected in the growing number of proof of concept requests, which are currently contributing to our expanding implementation backlog. Turning to our SoHo business. Q2 revenue was $35,800,000 versus $42,400,000 previous year. Consistent with the focused marketing changes we announced last year, the total SOHO account base has decreased from 808,000 to 785,000 during the quarter.

Speaker 3

Similar to last quarter, we again remained slightly ahead of expectations with a continued reduction in free trials and the majority of customers signing up for a 1st month discounted price plan, allowing us to increase revenue velocity inside the customer population. We see ARPA stable at $14.97 in Q2, while the cancel rate is improving slightly to 3.4% sequentially and improved from 3.57% in Q2 of the previous year. Our smarter ad spend strategy, which centers around boosting profitability and customer acquisition, continues to yield positive results. We have successfully automated and optimized this program, leading to improved outcomes. Coupled with robust organic returns from our SEO initiatives and our refreshed eFax web presence, we are pleased to report that the Sellho business is beating the intended objectives and marginally outperforming expectations as evidenced by certain stable key metrics.

Speaker 3

As a result, we expect to nominally increase our marketing spend using this new approach in the second half of twenty twenty four by approximately $2,000,000 This concludes my update on our SoHo business. In closing, in light of ongoing economic uncertainty, cost awareness and limited IT resources for our customers and prospects, their decision making processes remain slow. To navigate these challenging market conditions, we maintain a high level of flexibility in our go to market approach and prioritize sales efficiency. We remain committed to our strategy with a strong focus on cash generation and profitability, while our go to market efforts will continue to center on driving growth within the corporate business. And now I'll hand the call over to our CFO, Jim Malone, who will provide further details about our financial results and guidance.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Johnny, and good afternoon, everyone. In our press release and on this earnings call today, we are discussing Q2, 2024 results and Q3 2024 guidance. We are reaffirming full year 2024 revenue and adjusted EBITDA guidance, while increasing our full year adjusted EPS guidance range. We expect to file the 10 Q today. Let's start with our corporate business results.

Speaker 4

Q2 2024 revenue was a record at $51,700,000 an increase of $1,400,000 or 2.7 percent over the prior year and performing in line with our expectations. Corporate ARPA of $3.10 down from $3.17 or 2% in the prior year and in line with the last several quarters ranging from $305 to $3.20 q222customerchurnof2.29 percent increased 103 basis points year over year and 37 basis points sequentially, primarily driven by new customers at the lower end of our customer continuum. As Johnny mentioned in his script, normalized for the eFaxProtect project, the cancel rate would have been below 2%. Notwithstanding this, these customers are net economically beneficial. And I would also remind you that our cancel rate based upon customers not revenue.

Speaker 4

Corporate delivered a trailing 12 month revenue retention of 99% an improvement over Q1 2024. Moving to Soho, Q2 2024 revenue of $35,800,000 is a decrease of $6,700,000 or 15.8 percent over the prior year and better than our expectations. The year over year decrease was driven by planned reduced advertising spend and year over year base reduction due to fewer paid ads. With an increase of $0.02 sequentially, ARPA of $14.97 decreased 4.6% year over year as a result of shifting to price plans with a discounted 1st month versus a free trial, resulting in higher paid ads in the quarter. These plans are net economically beneficial.

Speaker 4

Churn declined 17 basis points to 3.4% year over year and was in line with expectations. As you recall, Q2 2023 was the final quarter of our price increase cycle. Moving to Q2 consolidated results. Revenue of $87,500,000 is a decrease of $5,300,000 or 5.7 percent over Q2 2023, in line with our expectations and driven by the planned reduction in SOHO revenue. Adjusted EBITDA of $49,100,000 an increase of $1,400,000 or 2.9 percent over Q2 2023 was driven by the cost structure optimization primarily in the area of solo advertising.

Speaker 4

Adjusted EBITDA margin of 56.1 percent was 4.7 points above the prior year, exceeding expectations at the high end of our range, which is 55%. Adjusted net income of $28,100,000 is an increase of $1,300,000 or 4.9 percent over the prior year driven by adjusted EBITDA flow through and net interest expense as a result of the bond repurchase activity, offset by higher DD and A and income tax expense. Adjusted EPS of $1.45 is higher than the prior year by 6.6% or $0.09 driven by the items I mentioned and a modestly lower share count. Q2222024 non GAAP tax rate and share count was 21.3 percent 19,300,000 shares, both consistent with our Q2 guidance. Let's talk about our capital allocation strategy.

Speaker 4

As mentioned in our Q3 November 2023 earnings call, we announced the $300,000,000 3 year bond repurchase program. In Q2, twenty twenty four, we repurchased approximately $30,000,000 face value for $28,000,000 in cash. Program to date, we've repurchased $156,000,000 face value for $143,000,000 in cash. We have approximately $144,000,000 remaining under this program. Total debt to adjusted EBITDA leverage, with the debt repurchases mentioned, our debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio is 3.1 times, well on our way to achieving our goals of 3 times.

Speaker 4

We ended Q2 with $49,000,000 in cash, which is sufficient to fund our operations and repurchases of debt and equity. Q2 free cash flow was $15,800,000 or 2 95 percent positive versus the prior comparable period. Q2222024 CapEx spend of $8,500,000 is down $1,600,000 versus the prior year. Based on year to date results, we are increasing our full year EPS guidance range and reaffirming full year 2024 revenue and adjusted EBITDA guidance at the midpoint as follows. Revenue between $338,000,000 and $3,000,000 with $345,000,000 at the midpoint adjusted EBITDA between $182,000,000 194,000,000 dollars with $188,000,000 at the midpoint.

Speaker 4

Adjusted EPS guidance range from $5.45 to $5.55 with $5.50 at the midpoint. Our estimated share count and non GAAP income tax rate was 19,300,000 to 19,400,000 shares and a tax rate of 20.5 percent to 22.5%. For additional guidance within the quarter spread of guidance, we are providing Q3 2024 guidance results as follows. Revenues are expected to be between $83,500,000 $87,500,000 with $85,500,000 at the midpoint. Adjusted EBITDA between 44,500,000 dollars 47,500,000 with $46,000,000 at the midpoint adjusted EPS between $1.25 to $1.35 with $1.30 at midpoint.

Speaker 4

Q3 2024 estimated share count and income tax rates are 19,300,000 to 19,400,000 shares and a tax rate of 20.5% to 22.5% respectively. This concludes my formal remarks. Now I'd like to turn the call back to the operator for Q and A.

Operator

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. And the first question today is coming from Jon Tanwanteng from CJS Securities. Jon, your line is live.

Speaker 5

Hi, good afternoon. It's actually Charlie Strauzer for John, subbing in here. And my question is with unemployment slightly taking up a little bit, do you think that the clients might be starting to be able to stack back up and reduce kind of the friction in deployments or is that slow is off?

Speaker 3

You faded in and out.

Speaker 2

I'm not sure what the issue is with the audio. I know you had something to do about unemployment kicking up. But could you rephrase it again?

Speaker 5

Yes, absolutely. Do you think that your healthcare clients might be starting to be able to staff back up and reduce kind of friction in deployments?

Speaker 2

Oh, Got it. Got it. Understood.

Speaker 3

Yes. Yes. So, interesting question. Good question. Appreciate it.

Speaker 3

Thank you. This is Johnny. So right now, we don't have any indicators that we see clients really finding the talent that they need to drive more IT projects. We don't see any changes in that dynamic in the market at all to be honest.

Speaker 2

Great. Thank you. Okay.

Speaker 5

Yes. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is coming from David Larsen from BTIG. David, your line is live.

Speaker 6

Hi. Can you talk about the deployment process at the VA? How far along are you? Any metrics around like how many sites the VA has? How many you're deployed at?

Speaker 6

When did that start? And then when will you sort of get to sort of a, we'll call it, not a full ramp up, but a pretty good pace and the total dollars tied to the VA? Just more color there would be very helpful. And how has that situation evolved? Is it improving in terms of access and deployment timing?

Speaker 6

Thanks very much.

Speaker 3

Yes. Hi, David. This is Johnny. Good question. Thank you.

Speaker 3

I think it's we're at a we can't really say what percentage we're at on the site metric. It's have about 2,200 sites of what we currently know. But a site can be a handful of people operating an office at a cemetery or it can be a huge hospital. So the site is not really a metric that gives us a good indication of volume. It's more about the number of employees, the number of seats that we have.

Speaker 3

And then beyond that, what applications are these people using. And we don't have a clear inventory of that at the moment. Remember, we are rolling this out close collaboration with our partner Accenture and Federal Services. They are driving the majority of the rollout at the sites and training the end users. We are the provider of the infrastructure.

Speaker 3

Right now, like I said in my opening remarks, we're on pace, we're on track with the rollout of what we had expected. But obviously there is a tremendous potential within that account. We don't really want to put a final number on it, because I don't think the VA knows themselves, right? It's a very, very large organization with hundreds of fax servers, thousands of multifunctional devices and machines that they're operating and they're step by step migrating over to the ECFAX solution. So as we go along and as we roll out, we will get a better understanding of how large the total opportunity is, but we're still at the very beginning.

Speaker 2

And I would just add to what Johnny said, David, that in terms of the first part of your question, you'll recall it was really about a year ago, literally almost a year ago, September of 2023 when the real rollout started because that first phase from March to June, July was really the test cases. And then there was a big bring down meeting to discuss both how those rollouts had been done, the format in which they had proceeded and alternative ways because the VA has a similar incentive as we do, which is to see it roll out at a faster pace. And then that resulted in a number of months of going back and forth of alternative structures beyond just bringing a facility online. So the original view was, yes, it would be facility by facility and eventually it'd be at 2,200. While that is still true and there's been a dramatic acceleration of the number of facilities that have access to the service since a year ago, as Johnny pointed out, that's really it's only one of really several metrics that matter because there's I think close to a 1000000 employees that are within the VA.

Speaker 2

So that constitutes another block of users and then you've got embedded applications. And so what we have seen is what I'll call liberalization of how the rollout is and will take place on a going forward basis. So we're seeing basically each month some degree of rollout relative to the previous month and as a result increasing traffic on a sequential basis. And so as Johnny referenced in his remarks, we think $2,000,000 ish of revenue this year, which is like an infinite increase versus last year. But I would expect significant growth in that number as we go into 2025 just based on the run rate exit that we'll have at the end of 2024 before you even get to adding new users or new facilities in 2025.

Speaker 2

So I know that's not the exact quantification you want, but we're not going to give it to you because as Johnny pointed out, it's very challenging with the VA. I think a lot of times there's just so many different embedded applications and systems and regions that it's a challenge for them to even come up with what that number is. But I think we have several years of growth relative to where we sit today in terms of getting to what you might consider to be meaning not full penetration, but substantial penetration of the VA opportunity.

Speaker 6

Okay. It sounds like things are improving, is what I'm kind of hearing. And then also when you okay, was that a yes?

Speaker 2

Yes, that was a yes.

Speaker 6

Okay. And then also when you listen to the publicly traded hospitals report, they each are consistently saying that labor shortages are being resolved. They're saying that inflation rates have improved. Their reliance on contract labor has been reduced. Volumes actually look very good at the publicly traded hospitals as do the EBITDA margins.

Speaker 6

I guess any thoughts on like I guess this is similar to that first question, but any thoughts on the sort of demand level from the hospital market and the healthcare facilities that you're working with now? Has there been any improvement?

Speaker 3

Again, good question. Right now, we're seeing both sides of that coin, right? We see hospitals that are doing very well. I think they are covering on the clinical side, which is what you're hearing is that they're actually hiring that kind of staff. They're still very cost conscious and trying to manage their bottom line as well.

Speaker 3

We don't see necessarily increase in the IT staff, which is where we need most of the support. And then you also do see the flip side of the coin where you see hospitals that are in distress, right? I mean, very public is probably the Stewart Health case that they just filed Chapter 11 recently. So I think you have both sides of that coin in the healthcare industry. You have the very large ones that are doing well, but you also have the ones that are that continue to struggle.

Speaker 3

Now that's not we

Speaker 6

can

Speaker 3

we can use that as an opportunity to help them save some money and get rid of legacy infrastructure, which is usually costly. But on the labor side, we don't see a lot of improvement at the moment.

Speaker 6

Okay. That's helpful. And just one more quick one from me. Any comments on the CLARITY prior auth solution or CLARITY clinical documentation? What sort of uptake rate are you seeing there?

Speaker 6

And any way to sort of take a stab at total dollar incremental dollar flow from your clients or in sell opportunity? Thank you very much.

Speaker 3

Yes. So we do see increased interest in that product line. We have a lot of customer engagement, as I said, particularly in POCs. So we have to go through these motions. It is building backlog on our implementation teams as we're building out that implementation capacity.

Speaker 3

But I think it would be with that large amount of fax revenue that the company has, which is still growing, which we're adding to every quarter, the clarity contribution on the revenue side is not material at this point.

Speaker 6

Okay. Thanks very much. Congrats on a good quarter.

Speaker 2

Thank you, David. Before we take any more live questions, Paul, we got a couple of questions that have come in by email, which I'd like to address and then you can recheck for the queue if there's any other questions that want to come in. So we have a question regarding the SoHo business. It's really a perspective question to 2025 about the expected rate of decline in SoHo in 2025 versus 2024 and how that might be changing given the increase in our marketing spend. So let me actually answer a question that's maybe even more near term relevant, which is the last two quarters of 2024.

Speaker 2

So just so everybody understands, but we have a certain pace of spend in the first half of twenty twenty four that is substantially lower than the first half of twenty twenty three. And some of that was in my prepared remarks, some of that has been noted by Johnny and Jim. We have seen based on the cohort analysis and based on the marketing programs, the ability to spend incremental. Now from a budgetary standpoint or a forecast standpoint, we've assumed an incremental $1,000,000 in each of Q3 and Q4. And as a result that's particularly in the near term a hit to EBITDA in the Q3 quarter.

Speaker 2

What I think is important to understand is that is not an authorized amount of spend, right? That's a budgeted amount of spend. The key is really that both the marginal contribution and the average of that spend maintains what we consider to be a strong LTV to CAC. If we see in given programs or chunks of programs and you just can't spend more beyond a certain limit, we don't intend to spend it. So a lot of the answer to the 25 question or at least a portion of it is a function of what will be the sustained level of marketing spend as we exit 2024 and go into 2025.

Speaker 2

It is our current expectation and certainly our hope we can fully spend that $1,000,000 in each of Q3 and Q4. So you should be expecting a lesser decline in the SoHo business in Q3 and Q4. Those are easier comps for us than Q2, which was our toughest comp of the 4 quarters of this year. And then as we address the Q3 results on the November call, I think we'll have good insight in terms of what we expect in 2025. I expect a lesser rate of decline in the SoHo business than we saw or seen from 2023 to 2024.

Speaker 2

But in terms of quantifying it now, a lot of it will hinge on the exact level of marketing spend and what is that stabilized run rate as we look forward into 2025? The second question had to do with 1 of capital deployment or CapEx. It's premised on the question of the nearing of refinancing. So I would just remind people that we have, as was noted by Jim, dollars 649,000,000 of debt. There are 2 tranches of that.

Speaker 2

The 6% notes are due in October of 26, so more than 2 years away. Although as the question is premised, I think we will be looking at what our options are certainly in 2025 or at a minimum addressing the tranche they'll be maturing in 2026. The second tranche which is larger the 6.5 mature in October of 20 28. Our CapEx this year has been more front end weighted. So we've given you a range of $26,000,000 to $30,000,000 for the year.

Speaker 2

We believe we're going to come in near the high end of the range for $24,000,000 around $30,000,000 So you'll see step downs on a sequential basis in Q3 relative to Q2 and Q4 relative to Q3. This is really a budgetary question as it relates to our level of capital investment in 2025. We obviously have not started that process yet. I would say sitting here today, I don't see any material change in the level of CapEx spend. Could it be $2,000,000 or $3,000,000 lower or $2,000,000 or $3,000,000 higher?

Speaker 2

Yes. A lot of with a function of what projects are we carrying into 2025, which ones are we green lighting, which ones are we not green lighting. But I actually don't see the amount of CapEx on the margin is being in any way influential in terms of how we think about refinancing either tranche of debt. Paul, back to you if there's any more live questions.

Operator

There were no other live questions at this time, Scott.

Speaker 2

Okay. So we want to thank all of you for participating in our Q2 earnings call and look for press releases in terms of various upcoming conferences that we may be participating in. As I just mentioned, we will announce our Q3 results in the first, I think, full week of November. So there'll be a press release as we get closer to the exact date and time. And of course, if any of you have any other questions, you can reach out to us by email or call us as you digest the results.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

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