Companhia Siderúrgica Nacional Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
March 13, 2025
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Moderator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for holding. We would like to welcome everyone to CSN's conference call to present results for the fourth quarter and full year 2024. Joining us today are the company's executive officers. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be in listen only mode during the company's presentation.

Moderator

Ensuing this, we will go on to the question and answer session when further instructions will be given. You can access this event at ri.csn.com.br where the presentation is also available. The replay will be available after the conclusion. Before proceeding, we would like to state that some of the forward looking statements are expectations or trends and based on current assumptions and opinions of the company management. These performances and events may differ materially from those expressed herein as they do not constitute projections.

Moderator

In fact, actual results, performance or events may differ materially from those expressed or implied by forward looking statements as a result of several factors such as general and economic conditions in Brazil and other countries, interest and exchange rate levels, future rescheduling or prepayment of debt pegged in foreign currencies. Protectionist measures in The U. S, Brazil and other countries changes in laws and regulations and general competitive factors at a global, regional or national basis. I would now like to turn the floor over to Mr. Marco Jabelo, the CFO and Executive IR Officer, who will present the company's operating and financial highlights for the period.

Moderator

You have the floor, Mr. Hapelo. Good morning, everybody. It is a pleasure to present the results of CSN for the fourth quarter and full year 2024. We begin on Slide two where we have highlights of an exceptional quarter, the strongest in the year with a strong EBITDA evolution, cost control and enhancement of prices in all segments.

Moderator

We have the highest cash of our history, almost reaching 25,000,000,000 BRL, of course, enabling us to control the leveraging of the group. Now the leverage of this semester is the impact of the exchange rate variation and our debts and dollars. Otherwise, the leverage would have been closer to 3.2 times showing the operational enhancement and the projects to recycle capital in the group. With the coming of Cemin that brought in BRL4.4 billion to the cash of CSN at the end of twenty twenty four. If we look at the highlights in mining, the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four was a period confirming the operational excellence the company reached its production guidance and CI cost with operational records for the year despite the rainfall at the end of the year.

Moderator

They did not have the impact that we had expected. We also had a strong price increase of 35% vis a vis the previous quarter, leading the EBITDA margin to a level above 50%. In steel, our plan for normalization and recovery of results continued at full steam. In the fourth quarter twenty twenty four, we had the best commercial results since 2021. We offset the negative seasonality at the end of the year with a 10% increase in sales when compared to the same period last year.

Moderator

This shows that the steel consumption continues a favorable trend and that we're making the most of that trend. It was possible to present It was possible to present a recovery of EBITDA with a margin reaching 11% in the fourth quarter, the first time in the year that we surpassed a double digit level. This enhancement of the environment allowed for a price readjustment of 5% at the beginning of the year. This should give greater thrust to the results of the segment in 2025. On the part of Cement, we had a better price environment, offsetting the negative seasonality that is typical for the quarter.

Moderator

And the costs enabled us to reach a new EBITDA record margin. We have 33% margin, the highest margin since we purchased LafargeHolcine with margins much higher than those of the market. Finally, if we look at the highlights of other segments, we had sound results in logistics, especially because of the negative factors during the period in energy, a lower EBITDA compared to the previous sector is due to the migration of systems after the acquisition and this should not be repeated during the period. We go on to the next slide to speak about the commitment we have towards deleveraging and a more comfortable capital. We have some important actions that are part of this trajectory.

Moderator

First, the sale of a stake in CEMIN, ten percent, in an operation with very attractive values and that was only carried out to help us in deleveraging, reinforcing our cash by BRL 4,400,000.0. This is the best example of our commitment and how conservative we are in the financial management of the company. The second movement, another strong example of diligence that we have adopted in our growth opportunities. We have a clear limit in the deleverage and the acquisitions carried out in cement. We have decided not to continue with some of these operations to enhance deleveraging.

Moderator

We have complementary assets in our operation and so we now have new avenues for organic growth and we're investing in cement with great efficiency in our return yields. The chapter about capital recycling, we have been very invested in underscoring the quality of the assets of the group. We have several assets that, of course, could enhance our capital. The most recent project is referring to infrastructure, and we have a minority stake in this. Now there's a value that has not been recognized at present and this will mean that CSM can grow in a more balanced way and have liquidity for deleveraging and growth.

Moderator

But we have other alternatives as was mentioned at other times, the energy assets and the steel plant itself where we could have a minority stake. Now all the possibilities are being analyzed carefully and should be implemented at the right time. And finally, regarding the dividends for 2024, We understand that the result of this year and the deleveraging is one of the goals we have decided not to distribute dividends in the first quarter of twenty twenty five as we usually do. This reinforces our commitment towards deleveraging and this has been approved at the Board of CSN yesterday. We go on to slide number four where we have the EBITDA result for the fourth quarter and for the full year 2024.

Moderator

In that quarter, we had a relevant evolution of EBITDA with more than BRL1 billion compared to the previous quarter with the best prices held in mining and cement allowing for this performance but with a significant improvement in cement and steel. It shows us we're on the right path to show even better performance in 2025. When we analyze the performance of the year, we had operational records in all segments, offset by a lower dynamic in the iron ore price. Now if we take away the issue of international price that we follow-up on, 2024 was an extraordinary year where we showed impressive operational efficiency with high volumes attained during the year. On Slide number five, we present the evolution of investments as we tend to do at CSN.

Moderator

You can see a significant evolution of disbursement concentrated at the end of the year to unleash the growth potential of the group, especially for products that will allow for the growth of the company. We have P15 and resources destined to UPD. Now the increase of CapEx in the fourth quarter is according to expectations we had already announced. Since the third quarter twenty twenty four, the company has been obtaining good results because of its investment, and investments have increased the pace to determine the performance we should have in the year 2025. Let's go on to the next slide where we analyze our net working capital.

Moderator

We see a significant expansion this quarter with an evolution of accounts receivable due to the operational improvement and a reduction in the line of suppliers given the adequacy of the drawn risk and four fighting lines. On Slide seven, we present the adjusted cash flow for the fourth quarter. We can see that even though we have a stronger operational result, we had a negative cash flow due to the effect of exchange rate on financial expenses and the volumes of investments carried out in the period. This will be offset with the stake of same mean of DKK 4,400,000,000.0 that still have not been contemplated in the flow that you see on the slide. Let's go on to slide number eight.

Moderator

The net debt and leverage of the group, as mentioned, this increase in indebtedness for the period is a direct consequence of the exchange rate variation on the debt in dollars. This canceled out our operational improvement and the efforts made to strengthen cash in the company. Now because of the exchange rate variation, the leverage should be closer to 3.2 times. And we show all the efforts carried out during the semester and also having a record of cash of BRL25 billion as we mentioned at the beginning of the presentation. Now we're moving on to the next slide to look at the indebtedness profile.

Moderator

We have a comfortable position because our debts are in the medium and short term. We can comply with our obligations for the coming three years. CSN remains active in its objective of extending the amortization period with a focus on long term operations. We have a flow of amortization between the years 2027 and 2029. More than 70% of the maturities of 2025 have already been a threat, reinforcing our commitment with deleveraging.

Moderator

Well, with this, we conclude the session on consolidated results and we will now analyze each of the segments. '21. We overcame the negative seasonality of the year, presenting 1,000,600 tons of steel sold. And there are several relevant facts here. Despite the skepticism that we have, the consumption of steel continues to be great and we have an increase of 10.

Moderator

Secondly, with that result, despite the When we go on to the following slide for steel production, we see that that small drop in quarter is due exclusively to seasonality when compared to the same period last year. We had a growth of 8% aligned with the normalization and greater efficiency with which the company is running after efforts to improve the operations. If we look at the graphs to the right, we have the cost of production with a significant drop in the year. Also in exchange variation. Additionally, the fourth quarter was benefited by provision adjustments and costs from the previous quarter.

Moderator

It's impressive to see the improvement per tonne with CSN having a strong recovery in this last quarter of the year. We still have to continue on with this to have a better profitability that is adequate for our steel production. We go on to the financial performance for steel on Slide 13. Once again, sound evolution of revenue price and EBITDA, all positively impacted by a greater commercial activity and the price increases that we had in long steel. It's the first time that the EBITDA margin of steel reached two digit profitability, 11% vis a vis 6% in the previous quarter, showing the recovery we presented in the previous slides.

Moderator

Although the margin is still somewhat compressed, there is a favorable trend in terms of volume and price, which should lead to greater profitability in the segment for 2025. Let's go on to speak about mining. We have on Slide 16 the results of production and sales in the last quarter. Now we complied with the guidance for 2024 despite an important drop in purchases from third parties. This shows the strong performance the company has in this segment with several record in terms of the shipments and others.

Moderator

When you look at the performance during the quarter, there is a drop that is due to the beginning of rainfall on the operation, fully in line with the seasonality of the period. Regarding the financial performance on Slide 16, the main highlight is the price operation that we had in the period, offsetting the problems with volume and the margins of EBITDA going beyond 50%. On the following slide, we have adjusted EBITDA of the fourth quarter vis a vis the previous quarter. And despite lower volumes and a worsening of mix, the impact of price, the lower freight cost and the provisional cost are much more relevant to give us the EBITDA we recorded in the period. Let's now go on to speak about cement.

Moderator

On Slide 19, we see the sales volume that we had for the quarter. Once again, the impact of seasonality to justify a drop of 11% with lower or fewer working days and higher incidence of rainfall. When compared with the fourth quarter of twenty twenty three, there's a growth of 4% showing the resiliency of the company to capture ever more efficiency in terms of logistics and to enter new markets. We see the performance of the year and we can see that 2024 was another extraordinary year for CSN Cement with a very assertive commercial strategy. In the following slide, we have the financial performance for this segment.

Moderator

We are proud to present the highest EBITDA ever recorded in the history of CS10 Cement with a margin of 33%. In the fourth quarter, we not only had a level much higher than the average of the sector, but it shows the competitive edge of the company, higher operational efficiency, a logistics network that enhances the competitiveness of our business. There was always a more favorable price trend for the quarter. When the prices are more aligned with the international market, we can deliver ever more robust results. During the year, we had BRL1.4 billion corresponding to 13% of the results of the group.

Moderator

We have new avenues for growth and we are improving our risk diversification. Finally, I would like to refer to the Logistics segment on Slide 22, where we show you our financial performance. The drop that we see in invoicing and EBITDA for the fourth quarter is reflecting the seasonality of the business with lower shipment both by railroad and port. Now the EBITDA margin was above 40% showing the efficiency and safety of the operation. During the year, the performance is even better.

Moderator

We benefited from higher cargo volumes because of the supply of iron ore that we had in the last quarter. And along with a good performance of other assets, we had a growth in revenue of more than 11%. With this, we conclude the presentation on the segments. And I would like to give the floor to Elena Keha to speak about ESG highlights. Well, this is our performance for the last quarter twenty twenty four where we had excellent performance in terms of all of the material issues.

Moderator

Well, we implemented a program to reduce the rate of potential excellence. We ended the year without fatalities, but we also had a sixty three percent reduction in lost days reaching the lowest rate in ten years. And we had sixty six point three reduction in the accident severity rate. Now all of this in a year where we worked the most in our history with more than 106,000,000 hours worked, 10% more than in 2023. In the last quarter of 'twenty four, we had positive results in our agenda where we focus on investments in projects to enhance our competitiveness to reduce costs.

Moderator

And the results of these investments were expressed reductions in the emission of CO2, 7% of reduction in the steel mill, very close to the goal we have for 02/1930. And also because of the record production year and other programs to increase the use of diesel. In the social part, we continue to advance in terms of diversity. We have 75% female representation since we set up this goal, and we reaffirm the diversity policy of the company. We're not moving back.

Moderator

We're simply moving forward. We want to have a more representative, more diverse company, and this is associated to the pillars of efficiency and meritocracy. These pillars are convergent. We had investments in the CSN Foundation, BRL60 million invested in social work, and this amplifies the positive impact of our operations, maintaining that constant dialogue with society so that we can renew our social policy. And of course, for another year and thanks to all of this, CSN is recognized as industry top rated.

Moderator

We are a benchmark in our sector, and we were awarded with that top rated seal for 2024. Very well. These are the highlights, and I would like to return the floor to Marco. Thank you very much, Elena. We will now go on to the question and answer session.

Moderator

Benjamin Steinbrook, our CEO, is present with us and the rest of the executive officers are also at your disposal for your questions. Thank you. We will now go on to the The first question refers to the expansion projects the company is working on. In mining, you have several projects like P15, the port expansion and options for organic growth in cement. If you could give us an overview of the priorities of this expansion that you are contemplating and at which stage they are, this would be very helpful.

Moderator

Now moving towards the steel production, if you could give us an update on the parity premium that you foresee for Brazil and how this affects your strategy in terms of price readjustment. And if we keep in mind the tariffs announced by The United States, which is your expectation regarding the anti dumping suits that have been analyzed in Brazil and the changes in the quota and tariff system in Brazil as well. Thank you. Caio, thank you very much for the questions. If I skip one of them, please repeat it at the end.

Moderator

Now in terms of our investment plan, what is important is that 2025 is a very important year. More than 60% of our CapEx is devoted to priority projects and expansion. We have done this in the past, of course, but 2025 and onwards, most of our CapEx will be devoted to growth, which is part of the transformation of the CSN Group. When we speak about priority projects, without a doubt, P15 is a significant priority for the year. The forecast is that it will come into operation until the end of twenty twenty seven to have a full year of operation in 2028, more than 15,000,000 tons high grade iron ore, phenomenal EBITDA for the group in steel.

Moderator

We have a plan, a reorganization that extends for the next six to ten years. It's a lengthy project that began in 2024 and it continues in 2025. This year, we will focus on sintering with several investments there. The mini reform of Furnace 2 that was announced to the market and other significant reorganizations in 2025, all of which are geared to enhancing performance and reducing cost at the steel mill. When we speak about cement, we have Eddyvaldo here, and I will allow him to speak about the cement expansion plan.

Moderator

Good morning, Cayo. In terms of cement, we're considering three greenfields that we had spoken about in previous meetings. We have a project in Parana, another in Sergipe and a third one in Para. Now these projects are in a medium to high priority. We have acquired the main equipment.

Moderator

We have paid it and paid for them and stocked them in Brazil. They will be assembled when it makes sense for the company. And the main highlight is a project from Parana. We're working on engineering. We have worked with basic engineering.

Moderator

We have progressed to, higher engineering, and we're very optimistic that we will have the environmental license to set up the plant this year. It's a plant with a capacity of 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 tons per year, and this makes sense for the company as we are now present in a significant market which is in the South. We're working on the maturity of these projects and of course our purpose is to continue forward and when it makes sense for the company we will begin allocating capital to these projects. Hello, Caio. This is Martinez.

Moderator

I will begin with a question referring to antidumping the trade protection United States. Despite everything, despite China, we're still here. We're surviving. Now what is important is that during the last six or nine months, successively, we have had several meetings with the ministry with vice president, Al Kimin. Practical viewpoint was innocuous.

Moderator

Nothing was done to resolve the problem of competitiveness. It is not a protectionist measure. Now when we think about the import parity, this continues. You spoke about the quota system, Brazilian imports. This cycle is innocuous.

Moderator

What we have done is to legitimate what was imported in 2023 based on the average of 2021, '20 '20 '2. Well, the system the government set forth did not work. With this movement today linked to The US, we see that in the market, we have communicating vessels and China has suffered anti dumping from countries in Asia such as Vietnam and Thailand. And they're also holding back on the imports of Chinese material. So in Brazil, you cannot survive with these imports representing 25%, and they could increase depending on the imbalance in the international market.

Moderator

Once again, this is not an issue of protectionism. It is one of isonomy and we're very competitive in the country When we think about trade protection and still speaking about dumping, in the case of tinplate, CSN was successful in implementing a provisional anti dumping for tinplate. This should be extended for the coming months and should become permanent. It's a technical issue and well, it was proven and it was implemented. Yesterday, we had a decision on coal lamination, something unexpected.

Moderator

We had everything that you can imagine in terms of competition. There was dumping. There was damage. There was, just cause a dumping of $600, and the government did not create a provisional anti dumping for cold drawing, which of course is a concern. It makes competition unloyal.

Moderator

When we look at the scenario of China that we have remarked on, what is standing out is that Brazil is the last country in the world. It is an outlet for China to send its material. We're speaking of $3,500,000 as volume, not very much for China, but it floods the Brazilian market. When we speak about The U. S.

Moderator

A, we have exports representing 250,000 to 300,000 tons, and we have complied with that quota. What is happening in The US is that the price has increased. The BQ price is $1,500 I carried out a preliminary account here to simulate the material in the domestic market, putting 25% and exporting putting freight. It's neutral to sell in the domestic market or to sell in the American market paying 25% for the BQ. Now with a lower intensity, the same happens with higher added volume products to increase the price in The USA.

Moderator

There could be an opportunity, of course, depending on the negotiation the government has with US. The greatest opportunity for Theosin to export to US is for tinplate. U. S. Exports 50% of tinplate.

Moderator

We don't sell any of that. And I believe that in the next two months, in the coming two months, we could open up a negotiation as we had in 2018 with a system of quotas. Now the fact is that The U. S. Is a net importer, not only of pin plate, 3,500,000, they're a net importer of other coded products, coiled, for example.

Moderator

So trade dynamic goes through pillars, the dumping issue and China. What is more important for us at CSN is that the government has to issue protection measures against the unloyal imports from China. The issue of The U. S. Is secondary because we're worried about the imbalance in the market.

Moderator

You asked about the BQ. Presently, the premium is 15% to 20% in this new level of dollars of 2.8%. That's a premium that if we are able to maintain it is excellent. In the first quarter, we implemented a price increase in civil construction and distribution. In assembly plant, it went to 5% to 6.5%.

Moderator

So we should have a price increase of 3% to 5% for the Braun products. Basically, this is the scenario for imports for the BQ internal market and our trade defense measures. The next question is from Rafael Bartelos from Bradesco BBI. My first question is to have more details on the strategic plan of the company. We're undergoing a trade war.

Moderator

And I would like to understand which will be the impact not only on tariffs on CSN, but how this changes your vision regarding the investments for the company. I understood that the priority is to continue on with mining, steel and efficiency project. Now if you could give us more color in terms of the projects you have greater flexibility on, if you're going to postpone them or not and if there's a possibility of M and A in the Steel segment. Second question, a follow-up for Martinez in Steel. Steel had a significant evolution of its results in this quarter.

Moderator

Could you connect what you said initially and the evolution of these results in the first half of the year, cost and margin? Rafael, to go to the second part of your question linked to cost margin and evolution. As I mentioned, last year was an interesting year in the case of the steel plant. We were able to grow more than the market And especially in the fourth quarter that theoretically or has always been a seasonable period, we were able to neutralize the drop and remain stable in terms of volume. The market had a 7% drop.

Moderator

This shows that our strategy, and we say this in all the calls, is working and is on the right path. The most significant path in the steel mill, as you have all perceived, what justified this increase in EBITDA is linked to cost. The cost We have been referring to cost, the search for operational excellence, and it is our understanding that it will continue until the first quarter of the coming year. In some of the calls, I mentioned that we have to pursue figures of 3,000, three thousand one hundred tons per ton of slab. We have to head to that.

Moderator

In terms of price, we were able to recover in the first quarter the increase in higher added value products among assembly plants. This will have a positive result. We hope that the market will continue to grow. We have a portfolio despite all of this, a very good portfolio that still needs to improve when it comes to added value. We're seeking to enhance the added value of our portfolio and we will continue with that two digit EBITDA for the first quarter and grow above the market.

Moderator

This is a scenario we foresee for the first quarter. In terms of guidance for the coming year as we work with full production, it won't be very different from this year, but we will focus more on the cost pillar and optimization of products, maintaining the added value strategy, the positioning in different segments and much more. I'll give the floor to Marco to answer the first part of the question regarding investments. We have two questions, one about the company's strategy, how we look upon the future, the issue of tariffs, steel, mining and much more. Now the group has begun that diversification of segment for some time already.

Moderator

It represents 13% of the cash of the group and still we will continue to increase its share in the company cash. We're going to improve our average EBITDA margin as part of future strategy. And we had mentioned this in the TSN day in December about infrastructure that will add value to our logistics network. Just this alone has the potential of having the highest equity in the group. They are the two main value segments for the CSN Group.

Moderator

And in a future line of diversification of EBITDA deleveraging and growth, they will be very important for the future of the company. You spoke about tariffs. I'm probably referring to steel, and I think this has been clearly explained. The price of steel in The US makes it worthwhile selling there even with a 25%. And in Brazil, what we exported to The US was a very small part of our production.

Moderator

We can accommodate this in the local market differently from other companies with reasonable results. Regarding investments to complete the question, we do have good flexibility among all of the projects we have set forth. We have a road map for the coming five years. For the year 2025, we see a level of CapEx very similar to that of 2024. We can still make adjustments, subsequent adjustments, but our focus is p 15 and the reorganization of the steel plant.

Moderator

This shows how important the steel plant is in the company profitability and in risk diversification. We're not going to postpone these projects. Other minor projects, we will be flexible in terms of postponing them depending on how the year unfolds. What we want in terms of results for 2025 should be more than sufficient to have the right CapEx, taxes, interest rate and further deleverage CSM. Our next question comes from Daniel Satsong from Itau BBA.

Moderator

Thank you and a good day to all of you. My first question goes to Marco. If you could further detail your deleveraging plan, if that guidance to get to the end of the year below three times, So which would be the main drivers for that? And perhaps you have a significant improvement of EBITDA implicit in these figures? Or does the guidance imply an increase in CapEx vis a vis 2024?

Moderator

And well, as a follow-up to previous questions, how much of that is in your hands to eventually postpone disbursements of 2025 for 2026 if this year proved to be somewhat more challenging in the second half of the year than it is now? The outlook seems to be very good according to Martinez for the steel plant. My second question, and Martinez, thank you for your explanation on protectionist measures. Could you speak about the environment of steel in the Brazilian market comparing that moment where things are better for flat steel compared to long steel? What you expect and in theory, long steel perhaps has more space, but the supply and demand dynamic seems to be more challenging.

Moderator

If you could compare these two segments, I would be very grateful. Thank you. Hello, Daniel. This is Martinez. Last year was an interesting year because when we began the year, we could not imagine that we would get to 15,600,000 tons of flat steel.

Moderator

Last year, we had some markets to give you more details. Well, some things were better than we expected in the automotive market. The market grew 16%. The bus market and truck market with 30% to 40% growth, recovery from other years of very low growth. And the white line, an interesting surprise, people were buying more, they were renewing the equipment, civil constructions.

Moderator

We still have a significant backlog of works that are underway. Something will happen with infrastructure in distribution. It follows the segment. It was present in all channels in a very balanced fashion. The only sector that was more impacted last year were agricultural machines because of investments in agribusiness.

Moderator

They came to a standstill. Now this year, to give you more detail, we began the year with a good portfolio, a well positioned portfolio. In the second half of the year, perhaps, I'm not sure, but we could have different signal in terms of what is happening. But I do believe that in the first half of the year, it's a given. There's not very much to do in terms of the market.

Moderator

The market continues a buying market. But of course, there are other variables, economy, inflation, interest rate. I'm not taking that into account. We're riding the wave and we'll prepare ourselves for whatever is ahead. When we speak about long still, what is happening in the domestic market, We suffered this with flat steel before because in long steel, we have several market players.

Moderator

Fire additional capacity in the domestic market, we have Gerdau, Arsenlor, Arsencie, a huge fight for market share. Nowadays, contrary to flat steel, long steel is presenting a drop, a minor drop in terms of prices. And CSN has ever more focused on other markets removing itself from that point because our market is stable at 550,000 tonnes. So the beginning of the year is not very different from what it was last year. Despite the China effect, the Trump effect, we have good opportunities of continuing to grow and to maintain the levels of 2024 this year.

Moderator

Daniel, I'm migrating to another part of your question. Our leverage plan for the year, our deleveraging plan for the year, we're focused on what is more structural when it comes to deleveraging, which is the operational results of the CSN Group. We showed you how the fourth quarter of the year was strong based on the good operations we had in all of the segments and the strength in Cog Control. Now this is the pace, this is the rhythm we're entering 2025 with. We have an EBITDA guidance for 2025 that is higher than that of 2024.

Moderator

And the fourth quarter will point to that increase in pace. Just this alone will be sufficient to face the cash deferments, CapEx, interest rates, taxes and will allow the company to continue to deleverage. This is the main point. Our internal projections will allow us to work with that guidance of less than three times that we offered at the end of the year. Now above that, we have other structural projects that we have spoken about.

Moderator

We have a project that can generate value and liquidity for the CSN Group. CSN Builder is still part of 2025. There are other possibilities for other assets that could attract capital, perhaps only in 2026. Each will have their own moment. And we have internal discussions at DSN regarding this, but the future for the short term has to become a reality and help us to bring additional deleveraging to the guidance we gave last year.

Moderator

And this will enable us to make other important investments. Speaking about investment, and this shows the flexibility we have in terms of investment, of course, we can generate several investments. One of them, and Eddy Balto Menschel did, is the investment in cement. We're developing greenfield project. We have three of them, and we can better define when they will be carried out.

Moderator

Our present day cement assets have the capacity to deliver more volume without new production sites. We delivered more than 12,000,000 tons in 2023, '13 million tons in '24, and 2025 will be even greater without a new site. So the present day sites are highly elastic. And another topic that aids and abets us that we have surveyed since last year are partnerships for specific investment. Some important items in our portfolio of investment and CapEx, we thought of doing this in partnership with some investors who could invest in the asset and be owners of that part of the asset for long periods of time so that we can bring benefit for their operations without having to have any disbursements in the company.

Moderator

This grants us significant flexibility in this year of transformation. But we also need to deleverage and we will do this simultaneously. The next question is from Yuri Pereira from Santander Bank. About the anti dumping issue once again after the decision of cold drawing, which is a product you are monitoring for the coming government decision, There is a schedule, but the government does not always follow that schedule. If I could get an idea of which is the product that you are monitoring for the next government decision And if you could speak about the very noisy news, the very volatile news about judicial decisions and a sale of stake at Usiminas simply to clean up this issue a bit if possible.

Moderator

Thank you very much. Good morning. This is Martinez to speak about the anti dumping specifically. What is happening in these freight defense processes? It is very difficult to separate what is technical and what is political.

Moderator

Last year, I had mentioned this in other calls. Our decision was to opt for something technical and to work with a product that CSN is most interested in. We based our thoughts on tinplate, underwent the protests were successful and put in provisional amounts. We have the challenge for the government to maintain that anti dumping as something definite at the April. Gold drawing, this is very bad news in my opinion.

Moderator

It's a sign that despite the scenario of trade defense linked to dumping a causal link and damage with expressive values of 500 to $600, I simply cannot understand which is the reason why they only have a temporary anti dumping. This makes sense. Technically, it leads me to understand, and this is not a precipitated decision that there is interest in another market, another sector. And, well, we came in with the anti dumping request for all of the other products. We will have the pre painted products.

Moderator

CSN has led this along with techno. In terms of terms, we have one or two months for this to happen, and the government, after a hundred and twenty days, will approve this. And in prepainted products, this is a insane business. We're making investments in another production line of prepainted in Puerto Real. And what we have is two times what CSN has.

Moderator

In terms of imports, it's inadmissible. We cannot imagine that we can continue with the industry at those levels. And what we have together is a sum of Arcelor and CSN together, and all companies are increasing capacity in the market. Arcelor is doing this, so that anti dumping issue, sort of cooled down in terms of what can happen with other products, the pre painted ones, the galvanized ones and BQ as well. What the government should do immediately when I answered the other question that was and said that it was innocuous, There have been positive attempts to hold back on imports, but the quota did not work.

Moderator

What Brazil has to do now is do what the rest of the world has done. The Asian countries themselves, have a 25%. Colombia has 25. For long still, India has this as well. There's no other exit when it comes to a trade defense for Brazil.

Moderator

What has helped a great deal is that the market has cooperated, it has grown, but we have to get ready for a future scenario, a scenario in the near future. Well, because of the Trump measures, they will foster imbalance in world markets. This is a follow-up we have done. In another three months, we should get to the end of the anti dumping issue. What would resolve things is a safeguard measure of putting in those 25% to see what is happening with other business.

Moderator

Yuri, you asked a question on Usiminas, I believe. Correct. Now this is a very lengthy topic. And as a whole, it's something that extends for ten or twelve years. Basically, it was a justice decision.

Moderator

The local justice in Nina Gerais, The company will continue with its resources and the last two market communiques were in February on this issue. Despite this, the shares of Oziminas, the active shares for sale are there, but there's a right time to do this. We're going to continue to work with resource on this issue. Was that your question? Yes.

Moderator

Yes. Thank you very much for the answers. Our next question is in writing from Mr. Martio Fadia from Goldman Sachs. He says, in terms of dividend and execution of CapEx, these are changes of paradigm pointing to the need of deleveraging discipline and M and A's helps, but M and A should not be out of the agenda until you have executed your CapEx or deleverage.

Moderator

As we showed you, yes, the cutting of dividends will lead to deleveraging. All of our strategy, flexibility with CapEx follow along those lines and M and A are in accordance with your company. The company did not follow through with an important M and A in 2024 precisely because of our deleveraging due to the commitment of CSN with deleveraging. And that is why we did not follow-up on this M and A. Now this analysis of M and A last year had extended for twenty four months in the company, But when the transaction came about, the conditions at CN and were different, and we decided not to pursue that operation, although there was great synergy with the group.

Moderator

You're right. At that point in time, we took that out of our strategy. And I would say that nowadays, the company does not have any material M and A for the year 2025. The next question in writing comes from Felipe Quates, an investor. He said, good day.

Moderator

The company, is it assessing the sale of minority stakes in MRS Logistics? Good morning, Felipe. Thank you for the question. No. No.

Moderator

We are not holding discussions on a sale of minority stakes at MRS. This is a very important asset for operations, especially for steel and mining. And we're very happy with investments and the results that MRS has delivered. So there is no decision, therefore, to sell a minority stake at MRS. The next question from Mr.

Moderator

Luciano Costa from TC. How is the process of selling a stake in your energy assets? This process has been mentioned in some calls. Has it been difficult to find investors interested in that profile of Heidrick assets? Loussaint, thank you for the question.

Moderator

In truth, we made adjustment in the schedule for the transaction before bringing an apartment. We looked at the financial decisions we had at c three. Of course, there was a debt in the company. The financial team worked on an infrastructure debenture that was made public. It represents 1,200,000,000.0 rise at a very efficient cost, and this helped us to sell out the operation.

Moderator

And we have debenture without the stakeholders of c three e, our energy asset. So once we bring partners to this deal, it can be done in a more independent way. This is a strategy of the company. Now the sale was finalized, last week on Friday, which means that the road has been paved to continue on or to go back to the discussion of bringing in a strategic financial partner for the company. And we're going to prepare the company during the year 2025.

Moderator

This is an important decision. It is part of the company plan, but it is not very impactful in terms of deleveraging for the CN Group as the asset has very little debt. But of course, we will continue on with all of our deleveraging actions at the company. Our next question comes from Constanza Urmeneta who says, would you speak about what we can expect from the cement business, news on acquisitions of intercement prices, a cement IPO and costs? I'll begin speaking about InterCement.

Moderator

It's news that we mentioned during the call. This is a transaction that we're not following up on since the end of last year, and we're not considering this transaction at present. I think they have taken the route of a judicial recovery. We don't have other details on this. The information can be obtained from the company.

Moderator

IPO for cement, yes, we do want to hold a cement IPO. The company is ready in terms of figures, governance, control framework to undergo an IPO. We wanted to list the company some years ago. We weren't able to do it successfully. The company is even larger now and more ready to undergo an IPO.

Moderator

The difficulty is having a window in the equity market. Because of the higher interest rates, this will be more challenging. But yes, the company will

Analysts
    • Moderator
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Key Takeaways

  • CSN delivered its strongest quarter of 2024 with a notable EBITDA evolution, rigorous cost control and price enhancements across all segments, ending the year with a record cash balance of nearly BRL 25 billion and pro forma leverage of ~3.2x.
  • In mining, the company met its production guidance and hit cost records despite year-end rainfall, achieved a 35% QoQ price increase and took EBITDA margins above 50% in Q4.
  • In steel, CSN posted its best commercial results since 2021 by lifting sales volumes 10% YoY in Q4, recovered EBITDA to an 11% margin for the first time in 2024, and initiated a 5% price hike to fuel 2025 performance.
  • CSN Cement overcame typical seasonality with stronger pricing and disciplined cost management to set a new record of 33% EBITDA margin in Q4, the highest since acquiring LafargeHolcim and well above industry averages.
  • To drive deleveraging, CSN sold a 10% stake in Cemin for BRL 4.4 billion, elected to suspend Q1 2025 dividends, and is exploring further capital recycling across infrastructure, energy and steel assets.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Companhia Siderúrgica Nacional Q4 2024
00:00 / 00:00

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