Innventure Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
May 15, 2025

There are 7 speakers on the call.

Operator

Hello, and welcome to InVenture First Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask the question during the session, you will need to press 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised.

Operator

To withdraw your question, please press 11 again. I would now like to turn the conference over to Lucas Harper. Sir, you may begin.

Speaker 1

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for joining us for nVenture's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. My name is Lucas Harper, nVenture's Chief Investment Officer. And joining me from the company are Bill Haskell, Chief Executive Officer and Dave Yablonowski, Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today, we issued a press release announcing our financial results, which is available on our Investor Relations website along with a supplemental slide presentation. As referenced on Slide five, we will be discussing non GAAP financial measures during this call.

Speaker 1

The most directly comparable GAAP financial measures and a reconciliation of the differences between the GAAP and non GAAP financial measures are available in our earnings release and supplemental slide presentation on our website. In addition, certain statements being made today are forward looking statements that are based on management's current assumptions, beliefs and expectations concerning future events impacting the company. These forward looking statements involve a number of uncertainties and risks, including but not limited to those described in our earnings release, Form 10 Q for the period ending 03/31/2025 and other filings with the SEC. The actual results of operations and financial condition of the company could differ materially from those expressed or implied in our forward looking statements. And now I'd like to hand the call over to Bill.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Lucas, and thanks to everyone joining us today. Given the recency of our last update, we'd like to use today's call to shift our focus from specific first quarter developments to a high level recap of the exciting opportunities that lie ahead for nVenture, the spotlight on Excelsius. Aeroflex and Refinitiv continue to execute on their respective strategies We are excited to share more about both as we move through 2025. But given the number of inbounds we feel from investors on Excelsius, we felt today's call would be a good opportunity to speak at more length about the company. At the highest level, Excelsius has tremendous momentum, but it is important to provide additional context on the compelling market opportunity that underpins a large part of the venture's value creation potential.

Speaker 2

Today, we're excited to have Dino Fotorero, Excelsius' Chief Revenue Officer on the call to provide an insight on his perspective on Excelsius' market opportunity, technology differentiators and adoption momentum. With nearly ten years in the data center industry, first in power distribution and quality, and now over the last two and a half years in advanced cooling with Excelsius, Kimo has had a front row seat at the infrastructure challenges shaping today's market. As CRO, he leads the client operations group, applying his operations background to driving execution and ensuring a premier customer experience across every engagement. As we've repeated often, InVenture's goal is to build companies that we believe can achieve a minimum of $1,000,000,000 in enterprise value. We'd like everyone to walk away from today's call with a higher level of context and understanding about why InVenture believes in Excelsius' ability to meet and exceed that milestone.

Speaker 2

Hearing directly from Dino, who speaks with our partners and potential customers every day, seems like a good way to provide that color. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Dino.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Bill. And thanks to the entire InVenture team for having me on the call. There are many exciting things happening at Excelsius. And today, I'll focus my remarks on three key areas. One, a Celsius' opportunity within the data center liquid cooling market.

Speaker 3

Two, the technology differentiators of our NuCool two phase direct to chip technology, and three, a deep dive into the momentum we are developing with ecosystem partners and high value end users. Let's start with the sizable, rapidly growing market that a Celsius technology and product set address. This highly attractive market was one of the key factors in Inventor's decision to commercialize the two phase direct to chip technology and one of the many reasons I joined the company. There are a few key secular tailwinds happening in the data center industry that create a compelling backdrop that a Celsius aims to capitalize on. First, it is no secret that technology companies, and more importantly, companies across all industries have publicly talked about significantly increasing their data center budgets over the next several years to keep up with the advent of AI and rapidly evolving chip technology.

Speaker 3

According to the Del Oro Group, worldwide data center spending was roughly $450,000,000,000 in 2024. And that number is expected to grow to over $1,000,000,000,000 by 2029. This creates an incredible secular tailwind for the entire data center ecosystem and especially for critical infrastructure providers such as a Celsius. Second, the overwhelming majority of the nearly 12,000 data centers spanning the globe are still utilizing highly inefficient and antiquated air cooled solutions, and single phase water cooling technologies represent a single digit percentage of cooling installations. In the short term, single phase water based technologies are expected to expand their share of the liquid cooling market as data centers install infrastructure for this technology.

Speaker 3

However, these solutions have significant limitations. We believe that a Celsius' new cool technology is superior to single phase water based technologies. For data center operators already using single phase, switching to a Celsius new cool products does not require a seismic shift or costly rip and replace approach. Companies that currently use single phase cooling solutions can easily derisk and future proof their data centers by swapping out their single phase solutions for the Celsius new cool technology. This allows them to adopt a more efficient and safer solution while utilizing existing infrastructure.

Speaker 3

Efficiency is among the future proofing benefits of our solution. Data center operators and end users that currently employ traditional air cooling can experience a drastic improvement in power usage effectiveness or POE, typically reducing the amount of power used for cooling by more than 80%. And while the transition from air to liquid cooling can be a bit of a journey, the simpler transition from single phase water based technologies to the NuCool solution unlocks additional savings in the form of reduced HVAC load and increased free cooling. In fact, test data captured in our lab paired with climate data provided by ASHRAE show that customers utilizing our two phase technology in comparison to single phase technology in hard to cool locations such as Southeast Asia and The Middle East can see tremendous benefits. Specifically, this study indicated that our NuCool technology allows AI data center customers in Singapore the ability to utilize free cooling 97% of the time in comparison to 34% of the time with single phase technologies.

Speaker 3

Now let's discuss how data center operators are thinking about the future. It is widely understood across the data center ecosystem that air cooling solutions are largely insufficient for existing and future generations of processors. Based on feedback we received from key customers and early single phase deployments, we believe that data center operators are increasingly recognizing the benefits of leapfrogging single phase cooling altogether as rack densities increase. Turning directly to two phase, direct to chip solutions like our NuCool platform can help data center operators meet sustainability targets, uphold service level agreements or SLAs, and protect ROI. The newest AI focused chipsets expected to enter the market in late twenty twenty five and 2026, such as NVIDIA's Rubin and AMD's m I three fifty, will require liquid cooling.

Speaker 3

We believe this dynamic will drive accelerated adoption. To demonstrate the drastic rack density impact of these ultra high thermal design power processors, a quick look into NVIDIA's five year product roadmap shows near term rack densities anticipated to eclipse 250 kilowatts per rack and rapidly approach 600 kilowatts, while other chip and server OEMs are targeting configurations landing at one megawatt per rack before 2030. The so called thermal wall is very real. And according to guidelines put forth by ASHRAE, the industry has already extended beyond the abilities of air cooling and is approaching the limitations of single phase, water based, directed chip cooling technologies at breakneck speed. Today, the current liquid cooling market is estimated at 1,300,000,000, and it is growing at an annual rate of approximately 30% according to the Del Oro Group, driven by advancements in AI and chip technology, as I just mentioned.

Speaker 3

The Del Oro Group estimates that the market will grow to a $5,000,000,000 market by 2028. This represents a significant unmet market need and a Celsius, armed with our NuCool technology, has positioned itself at the forefront of the future adoption cycle. Studies show our NuCool solution is superior to current single phase direct to chip systems and benefits a data center operator in five key ways. The first, superior heat removal. Our technology offers six to eight degrees Celsius more headroom, which unlocks a myriad of benefits for data center operators and end users.

Speaker 3

These benefits include increased potential for heat reuse applications, reduced CapEx associated with costly infrastructure, and the ability to handle future generations of processors with increased confidence. Two, use of nonconductive dielectric fluid. Unlike leaks from water based cooling systems that can cause millions of dollars in damage to IT equipment, studies show that if a leak of our dielectric refrigerant were to occur, it would not result in IT equipment damage. To put the impact of leaks in context, current generation GPUs can cost upwards of $60,000 each and carry four to five month lead times, which can impact an operator's or end user's realized return on investment. Number three, warranty.

Speaker 3

We provide peace of mind with two and five year limited warranty options and offer additional coverage that replaces server electronics if damaged due to leaks of our refrigerant. Additionally, our relationships with server OEMs and integrators allow us to warranty a Celsius enabled IT equipment, eliminating a large hurdle to adoption of our new pool technology. Number four, lower OpEx. Our technology can run-in an environment with up to 45 degree c facility water supply, dependent on processor and rack configuration, compared to 27 to 32 degree c facility water for single phase technologies. This allows operators to run chillers less and utilize free cooling, which can provide data center operators up to 4% energy savings per one degree C increase according to data published by Vertiv.

Speaker 3

Number five, ease of maintenance. All of our systems are built with hot swappable components that don't require a licensed technician to manage. The systems also don't need to be constantly monitored or flushed, which eliminates costly maintenance services, reduces on-site staff, and minimizes system downtime. Today, Acelsys has three products with several more in development. Rather than just technology, we offer a full product set, which provides flexibility for data center environments regardless of use case, location, or scale.

Speaker 3

Our flexible solutions within rack and multi rack form factors can be deployed within existing data center infrastructures, brownfield sites, without significant costs or downtime, and give data center design firms a full portfolio of highly efficient solutions to draw from when designing new facilities or greenfield sites. We've included specific product details within the slides accompanying today's presentation. But the most important thing to highlight between the various solutions is that each is designed to address a specific market participant need, and each product represents a platform that can and will evolve as the market continues to mature. From a competitive perspective, we believe there is only one other player in the market today that offers a viable two phase direct to chip liquid cooling technology, and the Celsius is in a lead position. In a multiple billion dollar market such as this, even capturing a very small percentage of the market share would lead to tremendous growth and success.

Speaker 3

Now I'd like to frame the magnitude of the two phase liquid cooling adoption cycle and how that could translate to results. As you've heard from the InVenture team, Ascelsius is focused on building relationships with four key groups, hyperscalers and multinational OEMs, global resellers, colocation providers, and AI as a service provider, also referred to as Neo Clouds. Today, I will focus on the available opportunities with hyperscalers, multinational OEMs, and our global resellers. First, hyperscalers regularly require large quantities of racks, with some needing approximately 1,000 racks per week. To provide an illustration for the true size of the opportunity, a single 1,000 rack order would translate into revenues approaching 9 figures.

Speaker 3

That addressable market presents a truly compelling opportunity available to us. Not only is the opportunity real, the engagement we have with the hyperscalers is real. We are currently deep in discussions with most of the major players, having met some of the companies well over 10 times. They understand the value the technology provides and know that broader adoption is only a matter of time. Winning the confidence and volume orders from a hyperscale customer is a deliberate multi phase process that requires alignment across numerous internal stakeholders with each evaluating how our technology supports their technical architecture roadmap.

Speaker 3

These are not everyday decisions. They're made in defined windows tied to platform refresh cycles and require detailed reviews, technical validation, and multiparty sign off. The process typically begins with lab testing, followed by formal proof of concept deployments that run sixty to one hundred and twenty days and may involve several iterations. From there, a pilot deployment is initiated to evaluate performance under real workloads and validate manufacturing and supply chain readiness. The questions we're fielding now focus on performance data, POC site selection, test plans, and execution timelines, clear signs we've moved from interest to evaluation.

Speaker 3

While orders take time in this space, we are seeing steady traction, strong engagement, and continued momentum as our technology proves itself in the field. Second, let's review our focus on the global OEMs that design, build, and supply the infrastructure technology used to support data center operations. OEMs represent attractive partners given their scale, reach, and extensive customer networks. It should be noted that these global OEMs generate billions of dollars of revenue and require significant volumes to have a meaningful impact on their respective business. Acelsius has a current OEM relationship to white label a solution, which includes modest minimum volume commitments.

Speaker 3

That said, our OEM partner, like other global players, typically does not white label a product for subscale volumes. They white label solutions that can scale with market demand, and we believe that Celsius is well positioned to fulfill that need when it arises. And what's going to drive that market demand? As I touched on earlier, NVIDIA recently rolled out their GPU roadmap for the next several years, which it shows extreme anticipated increases in rack densities. The necessary computing power needed to enable AI is undeniable.

Speaker 3

Constituents across the data center ecosystem need to act quickly and need to act boldly to stay ahead of this wave. Aceltis is doing just that. Aceltis' current offering of solutions has been purpose built to handle the increasing rack densities anticipated well into 2026. We also have a sophisticated road map under development that aims to handle projected densities out to 2027 and beyond. Our deep technical team is focused on tackling the most important challenges facing data center operators and end users, which is what drives our impressive roadmap.

Speaker 3

The team is working on improved vaporator designs that enable extreme heat fluxes and challenging processor designs, evaluating developments in refrigerants and new working fluids, and developing joint solutions with HVAC equipment manufacturers to allow convenient adoption of the NuCool family of products. NVIDIA's rollout has coincided with an explosion of interest in Celsius over the last sixty days or so. Marketing lead generation, where leads are defined as touches or interactions with market participants, has spiked over 300% in 2025 compared to the prior trailing four month period. These leads are coming in from a diverse set of data center constituents spanning the four main groups we are focused on. Hyperscalers, OEMs, resellers, colocation operators, and AI as a service operators.

Speaker 3

We've also experienced a notable uptick in our strategic partner network, which has grown by close to 200% since the start of 2025. In 2025 alone, we've added partners such as Wesco, Global Switch, Telehouse, Park Place Technologies, and others are engaged in nearing agreement. We expect several meaningful announcements in the coming weeks and months. Now over half of the opportunities that come to us originate from a selling partner or manufacturing rep, which demonstrates the value of our strategy. We believe that focusing on the four key groups I outlined above gives us the reach and scale needed to drive significant growth.

Speaker 3

For example, partnerships with value added distributors such as Avnet and Climb provide access to approximately 4,000 bars globally, which simply can't be replicated using a rifle shot approach and increases the velocity with which we can service new clients. In addition to the ramp and the number of inquiries we've received, the proposals we are generating are increasing both in total scope and average price. The average proposal size at the end of twenty twenty four was typically for single unit proof of concept systems. Today, proposals average between 6,000,000, which demonstrates the Celsius inclusion and full scale production opportunities. Let's now discuss the Celsius ability to meet these levels of demand.

Speaker 3

One question we frequently heard from investors is what's the Celsius' current manufacturing capacity, and how does that translate into revenue and profit? We anticipate having sufficient internal manufacturing capacity to reach profitability, which we believe would happen by delivering around 100 racks per month. Clearly, the volume potential we've outlined here based on the size of the addressable market far exceeds that 100 rack per month threshold. While we aren't providing detail on longer term unit economic expectations, we do expect to achieve significant operating leverage if we receive orders that ramp into the thousands and tens of thousands of racks. This should give investors a good sense of why InVenture has such conviction in the economics and long term growth opportunity for the business.

Speaker 3

To position the company to meet anticipated market needs, Acelsius is focused on partnering with large global contract manufacturers that can support the much larger orders we would expect in the future. We currently have one such relationship today. And although we can't disclose specifics like the company name or anticipated volume, we can confirm it is with a well known contract manufacturing company whose primary focus is the tech hardware industry and who would be able to handle a 10,000 plus rack order if received today. When a Celsius receives a large scale order, fulfillment planning is already well underway. Our supply chain team operates with a proactive readiness model, aligning internal and contract manufacturing capabilities to meet volume and timeline expectations.

Speaker 3

With a North American focused supply chain and scalable production capacity, both internal and external, we are positioned to deliver at pace. In most cases, orders of this nature could be fulfilled within a ninety day window with revenue recognized upon delivery. This timeline adds to our conviction that the conversations that Celsius is having today could lead to strong revenue growth in the back half of twenty twenty five. Thanks again for having me on today's call. We at Acelsius are incredibly proud of the hard work our team puts forth each and every day, and we are excited about the future.

Speaker 3

With that, I'd like to turn the call back over to Bill.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Dino. This is a truly exciting opportunity. Before passing it to Dave, let's recap the key takeaways we hope investors will walk away with. Number one, the liquid cooling market is sizable and growing and is estimated to reach $5,000,000,000 within the next three years. Two, given the trajectory of increasing chip densities, industry players believe adoption of liquid cooling will be all but required and Excelsius is at the forefront with the leading technology in

Speaker 4

the

Speaker 2

space. Number three, the company was well positioned through their contract manufacturing partnerships to capture the wave of liquid cooling adoption and fulfill potentially significant demand. And four, that demand from the large global players we are engaged with far exceeds what Excelsius needs to become a profitable and rapidly growing business. All of the factors underpin our conviction that 2025 will represent inflection point for revenue growth for Excelsius. Josh, Nino and the entire team remain laser focused on execution and are two market disruptors.

Speaker 2

Our confidence in the business has never been higher than it is today. We're excited to watch Excelsius on its journey to become what we believe is at least a $1,000,000,000 enterprise value opportunity. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Dave to cover our financials. Dave?

Speaker 5

Thanks, Bill, and good afternoon, everyone. NVenture's first quarter revenue was $200,000 representing management fees we collected from our management of the InVentus ESG fund. This was in line with our expectations and consistent with the communication on our last earnings call that we expect most of our revenue growth would be weighted to the second half of the year. As Dino highlighted in his remarks, there is a significant unmet market need for two phase direct to chip liquid cooling, and we believe a Celsius is well positioned at the forefront of adoption of this technology. We are excited about the momentum that is building at Acelsius.

Speaker 5

G and A expenses were approximately $20,000,000 for the quarter. This number has four primary components: non cash equity based comp of approximately $5,000,000 professional service fees of approximately $6,000,000 for accounting, audit, and legal advisory services related to, among other things, regulatory filings and compliance as a new public company, dollars 6,000,000 for payroll expense, benefits and other operating expenses, primarily driven by growth at Acelsius, and $2,000,000 of non cash amortization related to our intangible assets. It's important to point out, we have deliberately utilized outside professional services to keep our long term fixed costs related to headcount low. We expect our need to rely on outside professional accounting legal services to decrease over time, as we establish additional internal processes for compliance with public company requirements. Moving down the income statement, we booked a $233,000,000 non cash goodwill adjustment, driven by the write down of goodwill on the balance sheet.

Speaker 5

This was a result of the decrease in the company's share price and market capitalization, which were in part due to the general downward volatility experienced in the stock market during late February and March. Again, this was non cash. In the non operating section of the income statement, we booked a favorable non cash adjustment of approximately $16,000,000 related to the change in fair value of our warrant and earn out liabilities. EBITDA for the quarter was a loss of approximately $248,000,000 But after adjusting for non cash items, adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $21,800,000 To say again, we believe 2025 will represent an inflection point for revenue growth at Acelsius. And due to our majority ownership of Acelsius, we expect to see the results of this revenue and earnings growth in our consolidated financial statements in future quarters.

Speaker 5

Moving to the balance sheet. As highlighted on our prior earnings call, on March 24, Executive Chairman, Mike Atworth Chief Strategy Officer, John Scott and another related party terminated approximately $18,000,000 worth of Adventure and Aeroflex debt in exchange for approximately 2,300,000.0 Series C preferred shares. This resulted in an annual interest expense savings of approximately $3,000,000 and reduced our cash expenditure obligations by $18,000,000 This action underscores our founders' commitment to and confidence in our business strategy. In addition, in the second quarter, pursuant to our securities purchase agreement with Yorkville Advisors, in two tranches, we issued convertible debentures for an aggregate amount of $30,000,000 In connection with these issuances, we received gross proceeds of $18,000,000 on April 14 and $9,000,000 on May 15. This added $27,000,000 of cash to our balance sheet.

Speaker 5

These two actions illustrate the active management of our cash and both improve our capital position. Other notable items on our balance sheet. Inventory. Inventory remained steady from the end of the prior quarter at approximately $5,200,000 We're acting judiciously with our cash, optimizing the need to keep inventory on hand to meet customer orders while keeping cash on our balance sheet. Intangible assets.

Speaker 5

This represents developed technology and other intangible assets and amortizes at different intervals, primarily over the next eight to fifteen years. Goodwill. As mentioned earlier, goodwill now stands at approximately $437,000,000 as of March 31. On to the cash flow statement. In the cash from operating activities section, you can see many of the non cash items I mentioned earlier.

Speaker 5

The cash used in investing activities primarily represents the funding given to Aeroflex through our existing facility comprised of debt securities. The cash provided by financing activities section includes approximately $8,200,000 of net cash raised through the InVenture Series C preferred stock round, the issuance of shares through the Yorkville Standby Equity Purchase Agreement facility, separate from the advance mentioned earlier, and cash raised through Celsius. It's important to say the InVenture team remains focused on additional capital raises at the InVenture and or operating company level to meet our liquidity needs and fund what we believe are very attractive growth opportunities ahead of us with the goal of creating substantial value for our shareholders. With that, we'll open up the call for questions.

Operator

Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Nehal Chokshi with Northland Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Thank you. And thank you for bringing Dino on to the call to talk about in detail what Excelsius is doing to capitalize on this massive inflection point for DPhase DLC. Going into that discussion there, with respect to the go to market, addressing the four different customer types, With the white label agreement with the OEM, that was that primarily driven by a end hyperscaler engagement?

Speaker 2

I think it's broader than that, Nohal. Thanks for the question, by the way. And I can flip this over to Dino in just a second. But the OEM that we're doing the white label for has a much broader market than just the hyperscalers. Certainly, they serve various hyperscalers, but they serve a broader market.

Speaker 2

But Dino, if you have any other commentary on that, feel free to jump in and add on.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Bill. Relationship was there to driven not only by a hyperscale as you mentioned, but more of the overall market demand and kind of where the market is headed. So it could service hyperscalers as well as, as you mentioned, a wider breadth of customers.

Speaker 2

Like, players. Understood. Mhmm.

Speaker 4

Right. Right. Totally understand that going through this OEM will address the broader swath of customers that that OEM can address. But I guess what I'm trying to get is that the evolution or the original relationship start with a hyperscaler.

Speaker 2

Again, Dino, defer that one to you. You're closer to the ground on that one.

Speaker 3

Yeah. It it didn't start with a hyperscaler. It started with the it started with basically, with the OEMs driving kind of where they want the solution set or the product set to go from a liquid cooling standpoint and and the goals and objectives they want the infrastructure side to meet. It was definitely the relationship started from specifications that drove towards a larger, like that drove towards the larger market. Now we do see hyperscalers being able to use this, Neo Clouds being able to use this, as well as other users of the data center.

Speaker 4

Okay. And with respect to this potential inflection point happening in calendar twenty five, do you expect it to be served largely through this white label agreement?

Speaker 2

Would say broadly no. Meaning, there we certainly expect some volume from those agreements, there's a much, much broader pool of customers that we're engaged with. And again, Dean, if you want to amplify on any of that, feel free to jump in. But there's a broad range. Our activity is kind of through the roof right now in terms of the activity coming to us from all of those various sources, not the scalers, colos, as a service, and and the the OEMs.

Speaker 3

Okay. You can

Speaker 2

add, you know? Sorry.

Speaker 3

No, Bill. I I think you you nailed it there. Yeah. The the our pipeline is definitely filling with customers from all angles, or opportunities from all angles, especially those being driven by our our ecosystem of partners. You know, they've really they've really turned it on.

Speaker 3

The the Salesforce has has really been able to find a lot of opportunities that our product really addresses the need of that customer base. So not just driven from that OEM agreement, driven from the entire set of relationships that we have out there in the ecosystem.

Speaker 2

I mean, one of the things you saw from the chart, Naho is, we had six of these partners in January and now it's 21. So all of those have the ability to they're all channels of one form or another. Right? So we're getting, I won't say inundated, but there's a huge amount of activity going on in the space. And in terms of the trajectory, I think the entire industry was slower in the first and second quarter than they had anticipated.

Speaker 2

You can sort of see that across the board, but I think they're all quite bullish on the second half of the year and that's what we're seeing. And I think that slowdown in the first half was attributable to a number of factors, mostly tariffs, uncertainty and then Nvidia putting out their roadmap in late February of where they see the chip phone when and what type. And since that inflection point, it's been, as you can see in the data, a significant ramp up in activity.

Speaker 4

Got it. That's great. Thank you for that detail. Do know, could you comment on the pros and cons of flow versus pool based cooling?

Speaker 3

Bill, do you I can jump in and When we look at the pool boiling versus flow boiling, you do put in moving components, failure points into your cold plate technology that could cause issues in long standing operation, especially as we look at reliability and uptime being extremely important to these customers. Additionally, when you have pool boiling, you really have no excess for any overload or any hiccup in the facility water supply. So you're really exiting at 100% vapor quality, and that could lead to cases of dry out. Whereas the flow boiling, we always have ample fluid flowing through the cold plates and through the system that allow that additional headroom or a little bit of extra buffer.

Speaker 3

I think a rule of thumb from engineering is never to really to design something size on size or for the exact max requirement. And when you look at pool boiling, that's really what you're doing because you don't have that excess fluid that's available there if you go outside of normal operating conditions.

Speaker 4

And and what would you say the full base boiling guys would point to as shortcomings for the flow based cooling?

Speaker 3

I think the initial point that they that they point at it is pumping power and whatnot and the fact that you have to have a little bit more fluid inside your system. However, when you look at the cost associated with extra fluid, especially with the fluids that we're utilizing, which are commercially available, relatively low cost fluids when you talk about overall liquid cooling fluids in general. And the pump power being below those thresholds set by the OEMs of that 1.5%, two %, really the benefit that you get from having that resiliency, that robustness in the product that you get with the flow cooling versus the pool boiling, we see that trade off being a no brainer going towards the flow side.

Speaker 4

Great. And then last question for me, and then I'll get back into the queue. But so my understanding is is that there are some hot spots on the Blackwall architecture, which could be a potential accelerant towards phase DLC. Any reconnaissance on whether or not NVIDIA can and will mitigate those hotspots on the next generation architecture Reuben due out in some sometime in calendar twenty six?

Speaker 2

Again, Dino, that's that's in your territory, not mine.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I would prefer not to answer that question. I would prefer not to answer that question just due to NDAs and whatnot.

Speaker 4

Gotcha. Okay, understood. That's perfectly reasonable and understandable. I'll cede the floor. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Chip Moore with Roth Capital Partners. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hey, thanks for taking the question. I wanted to follow-up, I guess, appreciate the deep dive on Excelsius and I think the tone around revenue inflection certainly sounds like you're feeling more positive on sort of near term trajectory. Maybe just expand on that pretty notable increase in lead generation there since February, I guess. And you talked about fulfillment, you know, being able to be pretty quickly just maybe talk about potential leapfrog single phase sort of is better now needed later type mentality how those conversations are going and your confidence level in that inflection point here in the second half.

Speaker 2

Yeah, let me just start and then I'll let Dino add on first shift. Thanks for the question and thanks for the interest. So we have seen, as you saw in data, a very, very big spike in activity around late February. That point forward, it's been significant. That data is, I believe it's a kind of a three month moving average.

Speaker 2

So when you see it triple from month to month, you can see a pretty significant explosion in activity there. And I think that parallels what we're seeing from all the other players in space. Listened to some of the other earnings calls or some of the other principles in the marketplace, and I think they were experiencing the very same kind of activity. So we're kind of aligned with that. Obviously, can't give you any kind of forward looking guidance on revenues.

Speaker 2

We're not prepared to do that. But in terms of the momentum, if you want to kind of drill down with Dino on the momentum, that's perfectly good. Absolutely, Bill. Anything in particular you wanna add on to that?

Speaker 3

Yeah, in regards to momentum, I think we touched on it in the readout is that, in the update is that with the, I guess, clarity provided by NVIDIA's roadmap that was released at GTC and then released even further at some of the conferences following that, really gave direction to the data center operators, the infrastructure manufacturers, and those that are kind of in the know on where the processes are going on, what rack architectures will look like, really started to draw attention to the extremely high flow rates, not only at the rack level, but also at the chip level for single phase cooling. And that really drove a lot of attention towards two phase. Additionally, there was a very small amount of liquid cooling deployments that had actually been achieved in the prior years outside of the hyperscalers. As enterprise clients as colos started to deploy more of the single phase water, those problems, those issues that are inherent to that technology really came to roost and people got to feel those personally. And I feel that drove a large amount of attention and really kind of opened up the market to what we've been evangelizing over the last few years.

Speaker 3

And that's definitely resulted into that drive of interest and the drive of right interest. So there's been a big paradigm shift in the leads that we've captured and the conversations that we've had where it's no longer, oh, this is a neat technology. I've been saying that two phases are gonna be needed to the people that are the experts, the subject matter experts at the the polos, the OEMs, the people that are actually deploying the cooling, the MEP firms, design firms to how do I deploy this? Your solution is viable. What is the way that we get this into our data centers?

Speaker 3

So that's really, like I said, the drive and the paradigm shift, the types of conversations that we've had, definitely kind of pointed at that inflection point and that wave coming out of Celsius.

Speaker 6

Great, that's helpful. Appreciate it. And maybe just one more follow-up and I'll hop back in queue. Just maybe talk about that sort of chicken and egg, you know, confidence in your ability to scale and manufacturing how that those conversations are progressed. Thanks.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 2

go ahead. Yeah. I mean, so as we look at

Speaker 3

the manufacturing side, obviously, we've got a great team. One of the first people that was added to the organization when we were founded is our Chief Supply Chain Officer, Tremendous amount of background there on the supply chain side. He's added a great team. But myself, being a manufacturing guy at heart and running manufacturing companies, we knew that we were going to need the support to add confidence for the hyperscalers to large clients. And that's where our Centimeters partner and our Centimeters partners have really come in to drive a lot of that confidence and help ensure that we can support those large volumes, as well as ensuring that those volumes can be met with quality that's expected in a tech market or a high reliability market.

Speaker 3

So that was really a big add for us in overall ensuring our clients that we could grow with them. Because nothing's worse than testing, evaluating, and adopting a technology, and then finding out that it can't scale with your demands. So that's kind of where we were able to add a lot of confidence from the manufacturing side. Now when we look at the design development side, again, great team of engineers and a great sourcing group that was able to identify the proper materials and really robust process to ensuring that the materials that we utilized can meet that high reliability requirements of our clients, which I'm not sure a lot of the other units that are out there or new technologies are out there take to heart because they're more concerned about getting the technology out. The three sixty approach that we took, I think has lent very good confidence or gained very strong confidence from our clients.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think another way to frame it Chip is that as we mentioned, as Dino mentioned, we've had a lot of engagement with some of the hyperscalers that have very high volume demand. And they're confident based on the interactions they've had with us or they wouldn't be coming back. So the fact that we've had in some cases a dozen meetings or more with various large type scalers suggests that they see this as a viable path to getting to scale. And of course, they understand that we're partnering with content manufacturers to handle the larger volumes. But even internally with the kind of volumes we talked about, we can still get to some pretty meaningful size just with our current internal manufacturing capacity.

Speaker 2

And it's almost exclusively a kind of North American supply chain, at least our direct suppliers. And that was purposeful to, kind of take out the geopolitical risk out of the equation so that we would be able to access, access the materials that we needed in order to to accommodate the volumes that we can manufacture internally.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, I would like to turn the call back over to Bill Haskell for closing remarks.

Speaker 2

Well, thanks, everyone. I really appreciate everybody joining today. It's useful to get number line directly from the horse's mouth, is why we wanted Dina to come on to talk more in detail about Excelsius. We do look forward to future updates. We believe that there's, again, a lot of momentum going on in the company in all of our opening companies.

Speaker 2

Quite honestly, I feel that we're very well positioned and they're all really maturing and of coming to the fore. Very optimistic about where we go from here, but we look forward to updating you in the future. And thank you again.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Powered by Quartr
Earnings Conference Call
Innventure Q1 2025
00:00 / 00:00