Piper Sandler Companies Q1 2025 Earnings Report

Piper Sandler Companies EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $4.09
• Consensus EPS: $2.85
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$1.24
• One Year Ago EPS: $2.79

Piper Sandler Companies Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $357.27 million
• Expected Revenue: $366.99 million
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$9.72 million
• YoY Revenue Growth: +14.70%

Piper Sandler Companies Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q1 2025
• Date: 5/2/2025
• Time: Before Market Opens
• Conference Call Date: Friday, May 2, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 8:00AM ET

Piper Sandler Companies (NYSE:PIPR) operates as an investment bank and institutional securities firm that serves corporations, private equity groups, public entities, non-profit entities, and institutional investors in the United States and internationally. It offers investment banking services and institutional sales, trading, and research services for various equity and fixed income products; advisory services, such as mergers and acquisitions, equity and debt private placements, and debt and restructuring advisory; raises capital through equity and debt financings; underwrites municipal issuances; and municipal financial advisory and loan placement services, as well as various over-the-counter derivative products. It also provides public finance investment banking services that focus on state and local governments, and cultural and social service non-profit entities, as well as the education, healthcare, hospitality, senior living, housing, and transportation sectors. In addition, the company offers equity and fixed income advisory and trade execution services for institutional investors, corporations, and government and non-profit entities. Further, it is involved in the alternative asset management funds merchant banking and healthcare to invest firm capital and to manage capital from outside investors. The company was formerly known as Piper Jaffray Companies and changed its name to Piper Sandler Companies in January 2020. Piper Sandler Companies was founded in 1895 and is headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Piper Sandler Companies Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• Piper Sandler delivered $383 million in adjusted net revenues for Q1 2025—up 15% year-over-year—with a 17.9% operating margin and adjusted EPS of $4.90.
• Corporate Investment Banking revenues rose 20% to $253 million, led by a 38% surge in advisory fees to $217 million across 55 transactions and growth in five of seven industry groups.
• Corporate financing revenues declined 32% to $36 million amid weaker equity underwriting, as 27 financings raised $10 billion for clients and IPO activity remained sluggish in April.
• Public finance and brokerage outperformed: municipal financing revenues climbed 27% to $26 million, equity brokerage was up 10% to $54 million, and fixed income rose 7% to $45 million on elevated client trading amid volatility.
• The firm added 11 managing directors over the past year, repurchased $81 million of shares to offset dilution, and declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.65 per share.

Presentation

[Operator]

Good morning, and welcome to the Piper Sandler Companies First Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded and will include remarks by Piper Sandler management followed by a question and answer session. I will begin by turning the call over to Kate Winslow. Please go ahead.

[Kathy Winslow, Legal Administrator at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and thank you for joining the Piper Sandler Company's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings conference call. Hosting the call today are Chairman and CEO, Chad Abraham our President, Deb Schoneman and CFO, Kate Klune. Earlier this morning, we issued a press release announcing Piper Sandler's first quarter twenty twenty five financial results, which is available on our website at pipersandler.com/earnings. Today's discussion of the results is complementary to the press release.

[Kathy Winslow, Legal Administrator at Piper Sandler Companies]

A replay of this call will also be available at that same website later today. Before we begin, let me remind you that remarks made on today's call may contain forward looking statements that are not historical or current facts, including statements about beliefs and expectations and involve inherent risks and uncertainties. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated are identified in the company's reports on file with the SEC, which are available on our website at pipersandler.com and on the SEC website at sec.gov. Today's discussion also includes statements regarding certain non GAAP financial measures that management believes are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. The non GAAP measures should be considered in addition to and not a substitute for measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP.

[Kathy Winslow, Legal Administrator at Piper Sandler Companies]

A reconciliation of these non GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release issued today. I will now turn the call over to Chad.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thank you, Kate. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our first quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. Over the past month, we have witnessed heightened volatility in both equity and debt markets, with the only constant in this challenging environment being continued uncertainty. In response to these challenges, we are increasing client engagement, drawing on our deep sector expertise, and leveraging our comprehensive suite of products to assist clients navigate this uncertainty with the support and insights they need to succeed.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Turning to our results. We are pleased with our start to 2025. We finished the first quarter strong with adjusted net revenues of $383,000,000 a 17.9% operating margin and adjusted EPS of $4.9 all up compared to the same period last year. Turning to Corporate Investment Banking. Revenues for the quarter totaled $253,000,000 reflecting a 20% increase year over year.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

This improvement was driven by advisory services, which ended the quarter with revenues of $217,000,000 a 38% increase from last year, showcasing strong absolute and relative performance. An increased average fee drove the growth in our advisory revenues as we completed 55 advisory transactions during this period, consistent with the first quarter of last year. Our performance across industry groups was broad based, and five of the seven groups delivered year over year growth. We also saw balanced contributions from both strategic and financial sponsor clients. The outlook is difficult to predict in this environment.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

With heightened volatility, we expect active M and A deal cycles to slow and new announcements to be delayed. However, our ability to provide a range of solutions to clients should serve us well. Over the last several years, we have expanded both our industry and product capabilities. This expansion has significantly bolstered our ability to provide advice and solutions across more sectors of the economy throughout the entire market cycle. In addition, due to our diversified sector coverage and because much of our business is U.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

S. Mid cap and sponsor centric, we believe that we are well positioned on a relative basis in this challenging environment. In particular, as the economic backdrop for M and A becomes more challenging, financial sponsors are able to draw on our diversified product teams, including agented debt, continuation vehicles, and restructuring to address capital and liquidity needs. And while we anticipate that the conversion of our pipelines will be impacted and that second quarter advisory revenues will decline from the first quarter levels, it is worth noting that certain areas of the M and A market remain active. Service based business models and those that are less impacted by trade barriers continue to transact and do so at strong valuations.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

When the market does find its footing once again, we anticipate a strong and fairly broad rebound in activity, particularly with financial sponsors as they continue to face pressure to transact given the aging of both uninvested capital and their portfolio investments. That backdrop, together with the roughly three forty companies we have sold to financial sponsors that still reside in their portfolios, position us well as the incumbent bank to capitalize on round trip sale, continuation vehicle and financing opportunities from our private equity client base. Turning to corporate financing. Activity was challenged this quarter as the market environment for equity underwriting weakened. Declining equity valuations and increased uncertainty led investors to adopt a more risk off stance ahead of the trade policy announcements.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

As a result, the economic fee pool declined meaningfully year over year, while the health care fee pool decreased over 60%. For the quarter, we generated $36,000,000 of corporate financing revenues, down 32% from the year ago period. We completed 27 financings, raising $10,000,000,000 for corporate clients. Highlights of these efforts include serving as a book runner on four IPOs, including two for medtech companies. Equity capital raising has been very slow in April, and we expect that trend to continue until volatility subsides and valuations stabilize.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Shifting to talent. We finished the quarter with 182 managing directors, a 6% increase from a year ago. During the quarter, we hired two MDs to our energy, power, and infrastructure group. These new hires, along with additional junior bankers, highlight a further expansion into the infrastructure sector, which naturally complements our well established energy sector franchise. We also added a managing director to our health care investment banking team to serve and support clients within the pharma services sector.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Let me close with a few final points. While the near term remains uncertain, we have strategically built an investment banking platform that is well positioned to gain market share. We continuously rank as a top three investment bank in middle market deal activity, an area of the market that typically demonstrates greater resilience. We have significantly grown market share with private equity clients, providing a solid foundation for future growth. Our diversified platform on a product and sector level enables our bankers to better assist the evolving needs of their clients.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

And lastly, we remain a destination of choice for talent. This environment often presents opportunities to attract talented professionals who are drawn to our collaborative culture, proven track record of growth, and the positive impact they can have on their clients and the overall firm. With that, I will turn the call over to Deb to discuss our public finance and brokerage businesses.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thanks, Chad. I'll begin with an update on our public finance business. Favorable market conditions to start the year, combined with growing infrastructure needs, led many issuers to access the market. For the first quarter of twenty twenty five, we generated $26,000,000 of municipal financing revenues, an increase of 27% year over year, outpacing the market issuance growth in par value of 15%. Activity was robust across both our governmental and specialty sectors.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Our strong performance was attributed to the breadth of our platform, both from a client and geographic perspective, which continues to benefit us. Looking ahead, April has started off slowly as significant rate volatility has made it challenging to price transactions, and we have seen several transactions postponed. We have a robust pipeline of issuers looking to access the market, but our near term outlook is dependent on stabilization of the market. Now turning to our brokerage businesses. The equity markets experienced increased volatility and higher volumes during the first quarter, with indices peaking in early February before selling off to close the quarter down.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Equity brokerage generated $54,000,000 of revenues for the first quarter of twenty twenty five, up 10% year over year. We traded 2,900,000,000.0 shares on behalf of over 1,200 unique clients as they sought our market leading research and trading capabilities. In periods of heightened volatility, clients trust our trading expertise to execute quickly and efficiently. The second quarter has started strong, and as long as volatility persists, activities should remain elevated as clients actively position their portfolios in this rapidly evolving landscape. Lastly, turning to fixed income.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

We generated $45,000,000 of revenues for the first quarter of twenty twenty five, up 7% from the year ago quarter driven by solid activity across most client verticals. Our depository clients repositioned their balance sheets in response to the changing interest rate environment, while public entity clients put money to work in the short end of the curve. And our municipal centric clients took advantage of higher absolute yields. The fixed income outlook remains cautious in the near term. Persistent rate volatility continues to hamper investor conviction, keeping some clients on the sidelines.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

However, the combination of potential Fed rate cuts, a steepening yield curve, and reduced day to day volatility should increase investor confidence in committing capital into fixed income markets. Now I will turn the call over to Kate to review our financial results and provide an update on capital use.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thanks, Deb. As a reminder, my comments will address our adjusted non GAAP financial results, which should be considered in addition to and not a substitute for the corresponding GAAP financial measures. We generated net revenues of 383,000,000 for the first quarter of twenty twenty five and operating income of 69,000,000, resulting in an operating margin of 17.9%.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

We delivered $73,000,000 of net income and $4.9 of diluted EPS. Net revenues declined 23% from the seasonally strong fourth quarter of last year, however, increased 15% compared to the first quarter of twenty twenty four. This growth was primarily driven by a strong performance in advisory services, which accounted for 57% of total net revenues and increased 38% year over year. Additionally, our institutional brokerage activity was solid with revenues increasing 9% compared to the first quarter of last year. As we continue to grow our business, our focus remains on driving operating leverage.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Notably, our operating income grew by 23% year over year, outpacing our revenue growth of 15% as we remain committed to enhancing operational efficiency and profitability. Turning to expenses. We reported a compensation ratio of 62.5% for the quarter, a 60 basis point improvement compared to the same period of last year, driven by increased net revenues. Our compensation ratio remains largely aligned with revenue levels. Given our current outlook, we could see some near term pressure on the ratio.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

We remain committed to exercising operating discipline, and our approach to compensation will continue to balance employee retention and strategic investment opportunities. As we mentioned last quarter, non compensation expenses would increase in 2025 driven by relocating our Minneapolis office headquarters, the addition of new employees to our platform, inflationary pressures, and the expectation of increased business activity. In the first quarter of twenty twenty five, non compensation expenses, excluding reimbursed deal costs, were 70,000,000, an increase of 15% year over year and above our guided range as our employees were particularly active serving our clients during the period leading to more travel. Moving to income tax expense. In the quarter, our income tax expense was reduced by 25,000,000 related to tax benefits from the vesting of restricted stock awards.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Approximately half of this benefit was attributed to the vesting of the final tranche of the grants awarded at the beginning of 2020 in connection with the Sandler acquisition. Excluding the $25,000,000 of benefits, our effective tax rate for the quarter was 29.8%. Now finishing with capital. We remain committed to deploying capital to drive shareholder returns. During the quarter, we repurchased approximately 266,000 shares of our common stock or $81,000,000 related to employee tax withholding on the vesting of restricted stock awards.

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

These repurchases effectively offset the dilution from the 2025 annual stock grants, and notably, we've maintained a flat share count since 2021 as we've offset all of

[Kate Clune, CFO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Lastly, I'm pleased to announce that today, the Board approved a quarterly cash dividend of $0.65 per share to be paid on June 13 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on May 30. With that, we can open up the call for questions.

[Operator]

Thank We'll go first to Devin Ryan with Citizens.

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Hey, good morning, Chad, Deb and Kate. How are you all?

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Good morning.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Good morning, Devin.

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Hey, so I wanted to start with a question on M and A conditions. Obviously, uncertain moment, so appreciate that's affecting kind of the visibility here. But I'm curious with sponsor clients, you know, is it a sell side issue right now where just sellers feel like they can't start a process because there's just not enough market stability? Or is it something else where, you know, businesses kind of in the middle markets are actually being impacted, and so sellers feel like, you know, it's not a good time for the business to sell or even buyers, maybe don't wanna buy that business because there's maybe economic uncertainty or something else that could affect it. I'm I'm curious kind of what the bigger factors are of maybe you're slowing things down here a little bit outside of just the the broader market volatility.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I think, Devin, it's it's a bit of the haves and have nots. You know, we we've definitely had a few processes stalled out. You know, I would say we haven't had that many, sort of canceled long term, but, you know, it kinda really depends on the sector. There are you know, I would say one of our most challenging sectors is parts of consumer where, you know, in consumer products or beauty and personal care.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

You know, a lot of our you know, a lot of the stuff is just sourced in China, so it's it's really hard to know kinda what the p and l is. And, you know, if you don't know what the p and l is, you know, nobody's gonna buy the business. I would say the flip side of that is in, you know, some of our traditional services businesses that are, you know, very domestic or, you know, other sectors like that, you're probably getting a little more interest just funneled to those sectors. So some of those projects are even getting stronger. And and what I would say that the positive part about the sponsor business is if it's a fairly unaffected business, there's so much credit that, you know, getting financing for those businesses is very, very strong.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So, it's really, really sector dependent.

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Positive reason. Kinda what and just the the expectations for potential ramp. It seems like people are kinda gearing up for a little more m and a than than we've seen over the last couple of years. So just kind of the tone for that business and kind of whether that could be a 2025 revenue story or if it's more of a 2026 and beyond. Thanks.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. And I think I you were breaking up there a little bit, but I think you asked about depositories. Is that right?

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Yes. Just kind of the outlook for depositories. Correct.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I I would I would say, yeah, we we are feeling more positive about that. You know, we've been on a couple of, you know, nice transactions just in, the last week. And I think I said on the last call, you know, how this year's impacted has a lot to do kinda with what we get announced in, April, May, June. But I do think, you know, at least this is what I'm hearing from our bankers.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

I do feel like, some of the stuff we got announced, in April has a chance to close this year, which if we would have been in April of twenty four, we wouldn't have said that. So I think I think on the margin, it will be a a positive for depositories. And, yes, you know, some of those conversations are picking up.

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Okay. Great. If I can squeeze one more in for Deb just on the muni side. So I heard the pipeline sound like they're pretty good, but just near term visibility is making it a bit tough. Can you just characterize kind of what the any framing of the pipeline?

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Because I know that there's been some impacts from inflation and other things that maybe are are kind of becoming, you know, better stories for for issuance in side. So just how the pipeline looks today, appreciating it may take time to kinda get through, but what it looks like today relative to some other periods of time.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. Thanks, Devin. I wouldn't say we're seeing any big shifts in the pipeline relative to cost of projects or something really changing what that pipeline looks like. So I feel like it's really a continued build off of what we saw in '24. So no big changes there.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

And and at the end of the day, from an outlook perspective, to execute on that pipeline, it's really rate volatility, in particular, the MMD, the muni side of that. It is absolute level of rates and then muni fund flows. So just, giving some parameters for you to think about in terms of what what needs to stabilize in the market for that that pipeline to be realized. And and it can change fairly quickly. We did see some stabilization in the last couple days and got some nice deals done.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

So the question is, will that stabilization continue going forward?

[Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP]

Okay. Great. I will leave it there, but really appreciate it.

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thank you.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thanks, Devin.

[Operator]

We'll take our next question from James Yarrow with Goldman Sachs.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

I just wanted to touch a little bit on the countercyclicality that you talked about, Chad, that's now part of your advisory business. Any ability for you to contextualize for us the contribution either this quarter or or more recently over a longer period of time from the three businesses, perhaps in total, that you noted that offer more of durability in a weaker m and a backdrop? And I specifically think that the the business or or secondary situation funds, capital markets advisory, and restructuring.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. Yeah. So for us, I mean, obviously, that, those three segments, you know, we've been focused on. You know, our our debt capital markets advisory business has been very much a long year kinda ten ten year organic build. And I would say in debt capital markets, like I said, there's just an abundance of, capital.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So we feel really good about that business. Obviously, with restructuring, we acquired the small team, several years ago. We've continued to build that. We had a really nice recent transaction with that was just a great partnership between sort of a combination of the debt capital markets team, and the restructuring team. So I think sort of, you know, finding new capital with all those solutions, is important.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

And then, obviously, we're in the early innings, with the AVIDITY team, but but have have some good business. So, you know, I would say we've obviously seen, you know, some other competitors talk about that being, you know, half the business. You know, it's nothing like that for us. But all of those other businesses are probably growing faster, right now than our m and a business. So it it is, providing sort of some ballast, there.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So, you know, hopefully, helps.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Yeah. Really helpful. Thanks, Chad. Just as a follow-up, it appears, you know, obviously, as you alluded to, we're now in a bit of an elongated m and a recovery or perhaps worse. Could you help us think through what this means for your ability for an appetite to conduct acquisitions?

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

And and are there specific products or geographies that you're particularly focused on right now?

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I would say we've been reasonably active there. I mean, one of the I think we talked about this. One of the challenges, you know, with just coming out of '20 and '21 was, you know, everybody sorta had spiked revenues and and, sort of thought forever that was gonna be their, revenue level. I think, you know, now we have, at least a a few years of data points, beyond that.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

And, you know, we we kinda know what our revenue levels are. The targets know what their revenue levels are. So I I think we are at a place where we can, you know, come up with good value. So I I do think, you know, now is a decent time, you know, with our diversified business, lot of products that people would like access to. Mean, I think I think the boutiques are very interested in sort of the debt products we have now, given the market.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So I I would say we're, you know, again, it it's hard to find larger ones, but plenty of good small, small fits. I would say priorities are kind of the same that they've been, probably first and foremost things in and along, you know, technology with whether that's software, or services, you know, some select things within Europe as we, you know, are starting to have more success there. But really then within all of our industry groups, you know, there are, there are sectors. I've talked about this before in sort of health care. You know, we're we're overweighted biotech and med tech and and underweighted services, which really fits well with, private equity.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So pretty much everywhere there are are are pockets we could add.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Excellent. Thank you so much.

[Operator]

We'll take our next question from Brendan O'Brien with Wolfe Research.

[Brendan O'Brien, Senior Vice President at Wolfe Research]

Good morning, and thanks for taking my questions. To start, I wanted to follow-up on your response to one of Devin's questions. It seems pretty clear that we're in a bit of a bifurcated market at the moment. You call it the haves and the haves not. But was just hoping you could drill down a bit on how activity is tracking in your key industry verticals outside of consumer and services.

[Brendan O'Brien, Senior Vice President at Wolfe Research]

And if possible, how much of your advisory revenues come from some of these sectors that are less exposed to tariff risk?

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. So I I think we kinda gotta take it, team by team. I think last, you know, last year, we talked about it. You know, one of our largest teams is health care, and it, you know, it was one of our only teams that was down. I do think we expect a bit of a better health care market, and, obviously, a lot of our health care businesses, are pretty domestic.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

It's, you know, it's not not all of them. Obviously, our med tech, business is is pretty global. But I think because of that, you know, especially health care services in some of the sectors, you know, you can actually see more interest. So I I think that's one example. Energy, I would say, you know, obviously, we had an incredible another record year last year.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Obviously, with oil prices where they are, it's a little tougher this year. So, you know, that that's a business that could potentially be, down a bit. And then, you know, I would say probably the toughest sector, you know, relative to just, you know, the markets is consumer. You know, anything kinda soft goods, we we talked about some of the products businesses. You know, those those are heavily sorta sourced internationally.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

But, you know, even within consumer, we got some really good, food transactions done, in q one. And then we've got some sectors like, you know, our fitness business, which is sort of unaffected and is doing quite well. So I I think there are puts puts and takes there.

[Brendan O'Brien, Senior Vice President at Wolfe Research]

That's great color. And then for my follow-up, I just wanted to be touch on the near term advisory outlook. You spoke to a decline quarter on quarter in advisory revenues, which is obviously understandable given the backdrop. And while things could snap back quickly if we get clarity on tariffs before the end of the quarter, I just wanted to get a sense as to how revenues in advisory have been tracking relative to 1Q or if you could help frame the potential magnitude of decline that we could see near term.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, obviously, that's that's difficult. We tried it we tried to, you know, give a little bit of outlook when we can. You know, we actually had some good transactions closed in April that, you know, were were teed up before that. But I think, you know, the the question is, are we gonna get the same level of closings in May and June?

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

And it, you know, it only takes a handful of meaningful ones, that, you know, that don't that don't kinda make it to make those comments. I don't I don't think we're talking about a major decline, you know, because we do have offsets as we talked about from those different industry groups. And then the you know, relative to how long it takes, we really haven't seen that many companies say I'm not gonna go or I'm not gonna try it. I I think there's a lot of companies sort of teed up. We're working on the materials.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

We're working on sort of, prepping the sponsor community, and it's just a matter of, the launch. And so if if we get some clarity in the next couple months, you know, we'll we'll we'll be fine to launch, you know, lots of transactions and impact sort of q three and q four. If, you know, if we start bumping up against, oh, we're not gonna launch something in August and it starts to be to September, you know, then then that'll have some impact. But I think as of now, we're just kind of viewing it as a bit of a short term bump with a handful of transactions that we notice, and and we'll have to watch the next month or two.

[Brendan O'Brien, Senior Vice President at Wolfe Research]

Right. Thank you for taking my questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. We'll go next to Mike Grondahl with Northland Securities.

[Mike Grondahl, Head of Equities & Director of Research at Northland Capital Markets]

Hey, guys. Thanks. Sort of two questions here. You know, the first one, in discussions with your customers, is it all about tariff uncertainty? Or or maybe if you could just talk about the top three things you're hearing from your customers and and what they need clarity on.

[Mike Grondahl, Head of Equities & Director of Research at Northland Capital Markets]

And then secondly, I know it's only been short term, like, a couple days, and Deb even pointed that out. But are you seeing, I don't know, any sentiment change just this week, with you know, the S and P is is kinda rebounded nicely. So just curious there on those two.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I would I would say with with clients, I always have to remind people, like, you know, relative to m and a, one of the biggest things, you know, to transacting is just CEO confidence. And so I think it's just around uncertainty where, you know, where people sort of have good pipelines, good visibility. You know, the buyers are there. You know, strategic still wanna transact.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Sponsors, you know, if they can get their arms around the p and l, there's so much dry powder and credit's really good. You know, they wanna transact. So I do think, you know, first and foremost, it's just a matter of, you know, where sorta does global trade really impact a a p and l. Now I would say there's some conversations, you know, with people trying to predict, you know, if this lasts a long time, when will it sort of really start to impact spending both at sort of the corporate and consumer level. And, you know, I guess your guess, you know, is is as good as mine.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

I would say, you know, this week is a reminder that things can, you know, bounce back relatively fast. I I think as Deb said, you know, a little bit of change in the muni market. We got some good transactions done. We have a couple of IPOs on the road in financial services, you know, which we haven't had for a while. We had another nice, you know, depository deal announced.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

So it it it can change pretty quick with with with with sentiment.

[Mike Grondahl, Head of Equities & Director of Research at Northland Capital Markets]

Got it. Okay. Hey. Good luck this summer.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Thank you.

[Operator]

We'll go next to James Yarrow with Goldman Sachs.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Thanks for taking the follow ups. Just, firstly, could you just, touch a little bit on the IPO pipeline? I think you just alluded to two deals on the road, but just more generally on the IPO backlogs and and and how those have evolved and and what you're hearing from from companies, you know, around their their need to to transact there. And then specifically, could you just comment a little bit around the health care business, specifically on the equity capital market side?

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. I would say, I mean, obviously, coming into this year, it's the first time in a lot. I mean, we had we've had some rough years in the IPO market. I would say it's the first time we had some pretty good traction. You know, we some of the sectors that matter to us, med tech, you know, where we get sort of significant share.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

We did a couple great transactions in q one. We did a nice energy transaction, you know, which we haven't seen much of. I would say across sectors, you know, there's there's some good backlog. I think some of the biggest best companies there, you know, we're not gonna need to see much stabilization, and we'll start to see them transact. What I would say relative to health care, you know, obviously, our biggest chunk of fee share is in biotech.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

And relative to market performance, some of the small cap biotech stocks, you know, have been decimated. And, you know, it's gonna take a while there. You're gonna need to see some of those come back. And frankly, investors are gonna come back to those beat up names before they come back to sort of the I IPOs and biotech. So I I I think that's gonna be a little slower on the health care side, especially small cap.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Great. That's really helpful. Just one last one for Deb. We obviously saw a substantial rate fall this quarter and and again in April. And I would have thought that that would have catalyzed some fixed income trading activity by banks.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Could you just walk us through what you're seeing and hearing from any clients and and their appetite to to transact in in this backdrop?

[Deb Schoneman, President at Piper Sandler Companies]

Yeah. James, I would say, holistically, volatility is, you know, creating too much uncertainty right now for many really across our clients that to step in with any conviction. Now specifically, the depositories where we are seeing activity is related to m and a, where there are balance sheet restructurings being done because of that. Outside of that, depositories, I think there's just too much uncertainty still for bank decision makers to to jump in and being willing to maybe absorb current losses in their portfolio to be able to reposition. So where we're seeing more activity is just on our derivatives hedging side to try to be helpful to those depositories to manage through this environment.

[James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs]

Thanks a lot.

[Operator]

Thank you. That will conclude our question and answer session. At this time, I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. Abraham for any additional remarks.

[Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO at Piper Sandler Companies]

All right. Thanks, everyone, for joining us this morning. We look forward to updating you on our second quarter results this summer. Have a great day.

[Operator]

That will conclude today's call. We appreciate your participation.

Participants

Executives

• Kathy Winslow, Legal Administrator
• Chad Abraham, Chairman & CEO
• Deb Schoneman, President
• Kate Clune, CFO

Analysts

• Devin Ryan, Director of Financial Technology Research at Citizen JMP
• James Yaro, VP - Equity Research at Goldman Sachs
• Brendan O'Brien, Senior Vice President at Wolfe Research
• Mike Grondahl, Head of Equities & Director of Research at Northland Capital Markets