HCI Group Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
May 8, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • HCI Group delivered 17% year-over-year growth in gross earned premiums, improved its net combined ratio to 56% from 67%, and reported pretax income of $100 million with EPS of $5.35 in Q1 2025.
  • Shareholders’ equity rose by approximately $70 million in the quarter and book value per share increased by over $6, with management expecting the debt-to-capital ratio to fall below 10% after the note conversions.
  • HCI plans to redeem its 4.75% convertible senior notes via share settlement by June, reducing debt by about $172 million and further strengthening the balance sheet.
  • The real estate division, Greenleaf, secured a new multi-year GEICO lease for 190,000 sq ft, boosting off-balance-sheet gains to around $85 million not yet reflected in book value.
  • Management announced a planned spin-off of Exio into a standalone public company by year-end to unlock value—Exio reported Q1 standalone revenue of $52 million and pretax income of $24 million.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
HCI Group Q1 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Good afternoon, and welcome to HAI Group's First Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Call. My name is Ali, and I will be your conference operator. At this time, all participants will be in a listen only mode. Before we begin today's call, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded and will be available for replay through 06/07/2025, starting later today. The call is also being broadcast live via webcast and available via webcast replay until 05/08/2026, on the Investor Information section of HCI Group's website at www.hcigroup.com.

Operator

I would now like to turn the call over to Bill Brumall, Investor Relations. Bill, please proceed.

Bill Broomall
Bill Broomall
Investor Relations at HCI Group

Thank you, and good afternoon. Welcome to HCI Group's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. To access today's webcast, please visit the Investor Information section of our corporate website at www.hcigroup.com. Before we begin, I would like to take the opportunity to remind our listeners that today's presentation and responses to questions may contain forward looking statements made pursuant to the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words such as anticipate, estimate, expect, intend, plan and project and other similar words and expressions are intended to signify forward looking statements.

Bill Broomall
Bill Broomall
Investor Relations at HCI Group

Forward looking statements are not guarantees of future results and conditions, but rather are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Some of these risks and uncertainties are identified in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Should any risks or uncertainties develop into actual events, these developments could have a material adverse effect on the company's business, financial conditions and results of operation. HCI Group disclaims all the obligations to update any forward looking statements. Now with that, I would like to turn the call over to Karen Coleman, Chief Operating Officer. Karen?

Karin Coleman
Karin Coleman
COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice at HCI Group

Thank you, Bill, and welcome, everyone. HCI continues to demonstrate its ability to grow top line revenue while enhancing bottom line profitability. In the first quarter, we grew gross earned premiums by 17% over the same quarter last year. We improved the net combined ratio to 56% from 67% in the first quarter of twenty twenty four. And we reported pretax net income of just over $100,000,000 and earnings of 5.35 per share.

Karin Coleman
Karin Coleman
COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice at HCI Group

In addition to these financial achievements, we had several other accomplishments in the quarter. Hailrow reciprocal exchange, the second reciprocal established by HCI, commenced operations in February by assuming approximately 14,000 policies and $35,000,000 of premium from citizens. We view Tailrow as an additional component of HCI's growth initiatives moving forward. During the quarter, HCI announced its plans to redeem its 4.75% convertible senior notes. We expect the notes will be fully converted in June of this year.

Karin Coleman
Karin Coleman
COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice at HCI Group

This will reduce the debt on our balance sheet by approximately $172,000,000 In the first quarter, Greenleaf, our real estate division, successfully entered into a new multi year lease agreement with GEICO for an office campus consisting of 190,000 square feet. As a result, we believe the total off balance sheet gain our real estate portfolio is now approximately $85,000,000 which is not reflected in our reported book value. Lastly, we've made substantial progress on the separation of Exio from HCI Group. We will be speaking more about it later on this call. We're off to a really good start in 2025.

Karin Coleman
Karin Coleman
COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice at HCI Group

Now I'll turn it over to Mark to provide more details on the financial results.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Thanks, Karen. As Karen mentioned, pre tax income for the quarter was just over $100,000,000 and diluted earnings per share were $5.35 compared to $3.81 in the first quarter last year. These outstanding results reflect the continuing trends we've been discussing for a while now. A lower loss ratio, revenue that's growing faster than expenses and a strengthening balance sheet. One of the more impactful trends is the significant decline in loss ratio.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

The growth loss ratio this quarter was less than 20%, down from 31% in the same quarter last year, reflecting continued low claim volume. Claim frequency was about the same as the fourth quarter last year, but was down more than 40% from the first quarter of last year. The low claim frequency is driven by legislative changes, favorable weather conditions, and the lull we sometimes see after a hurricane. The declining loss ratio is only part of the story though. Because of the technology provided by Exio, we've been able to generate significant operational leverage.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

As evidence of that, the combined ratio this quarter was only 56%. Revenue is growing, but expenses are not. We are of course getting a temporary benefit from the timing of the citizens assumptions and the loss ratio this quarter is a little lower than expected. But even if we normalize for both of these, the adjusted combined ratio is still around 70%. Now let's take a look at the balance sheet where we are also seeing significant continued strengthening.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Shareholder equity grew by almost $70,000,000 during the quarter and book value per share grew by more than $6 In the past twelve months shareholder equity has grown by more than $125,000,000 and book value has grown by $10 per share both of these in a period where we had three hurricanes. The strengthening of the balance sheet should accelerate in the second quarter as we expect to complete the process of converting our convertible notes, as Karen mentioned. By the end of the second quarter, we expect shareholder equity to be close to 3 quarters of a billion dollars, book value per share to be close to $60 and the debt to cap ratio to be well below 10%. In terms of holding company liquidity, that also continues to grow and is just over $250,000,000 at the end of the first quarter. In summary, this was another fantastic quarter. Revenues up, combined ratio is down, earnings are growing, and the balance sheet continues to strengthen. And with that, I'll hand it back to Karen.

Karin Coleman
Karin Coleman
COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice at HCI Group

Thanks Mark. As I mentioned earlier, we've made substantial progress on the separation of Exio from HCI Group. And as we move Exio toward being a standalone company, I want to introduce two key executives to the call: Kevin Mitchell, who will discuss the opportunity in front of Exio and Suela Boukou, who will discuss Exio's financials. With that, I'll turn it over to Kevin.

Kevin Mitchell
President at Exzeo Group Inc

Thanks, Karen. As background, I'm currently President of Exeo, and I joined HCI Group in 2013. Exeo is, at its core, a technology company focused on developing solutions that help insurance clients reduce both their loss ratio and expense ratio. Our benchmark for success is turning premiums into profits for our clients. In insurance terms, we want to give our clients access to a technology platform that delivers better combined ratios.

Kevin Mitchell
President at Exzeo Group Inc

The power of our technology is best illustrated by the proven track record at HCI's insurance companies, which have delivered industry leading results. Acceo currently manages approximately $1,200,000,000 in premiums on its platform. Up to this point, premiums on Acceo's platform have been tied to HCI, but this is only a small fraction of The U. S. Homeowners insurance market.

Kevin Mitchell
President at Exzeo Group Inc

We see a massive opportunity to unleash our technology on the rest of the market that our technology does not currently touch. We want to replicate the success we've had working with HCI's insurance companies and bring those underwriting results to the rest of the industry. By being a stand alone company, it will create new opportunities to pursue our growth objectives by adding new customers who can benefit from our technology platform. Next, I want to turn the call over to Suela Bolkou to introduce Exeo's financials.

Suela Bulku
Senior Financial Officer & Controller at TypTap Insurance Group

Thanks, Kevin, and hello, everyone. As background, I'm currently Chief Financial Officer of and have been with HCI Group for nearly fourteen years. I've been fortunate to be part of the team since the founding of Exeo in 2012. To build on Kevin's comments, as we pursue the next phase of growth at Exeo, we do so from a position of strength. Exeo already has attractive margins, is solidly profitable and generates strong operating cash flows.

Suela Bulku
Senior Financial Officer & Controller at TypTap Insurance Group

For the first quarter, Exeo reported $52,000,000 in revenue and $24,000,000 in pretax income, assuming Exeo operated as a standalone entity. For those looking for further financial details, the segment information disclosure in HCI's ten Q filing, which is scheduled for publication tomorrow, offers a more detailed summary of Exio's financial performance. This would also help establish a consistent baseline for understanding Exio's financial profile going forward. Overall, the quarter reflects strong margins and solid performance for the business. I'll now hand it over to Paresh.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Thank you, Svella. The key takeaways from the earlier comments are that HCI is in a strong and healthy financial position And that Exio meets all the criteria necessary to succeed as a standalone company. And the benefit of an Exio separation has the potential to be very significant. As Kevin highlighted in his comments, Exio can bring its proven technology to a broader part of the market, which would be otherwise difficult to do under the HCI umbrella. The only question left to answer is, how do we make Exio a standalone company in a manner that inures to the benefit of the current HCI shareholders?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

We believe a spin off of Exio into a separate public company is the best path forward. And that is what we are focused on at this time. A spin off transaction would be subject to a variety of conditions, including the filing and effectiveness of a Form 10 registration statement with the SEC. Transaction will be done by distributing shares of Exio held by HCI Group on a tax free basis to HCI shareholders. If we were to proceed with a spin off, we expect to complete the transaction by the end of this year.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

HCI shareholders will benefit from both the continued performance of HCI and the unlocked future potential of Exio. With that, I'll turn it over for questions. Operator, please provide instructions.

Operator

Thank you. This time, we will be conducting our question and answer confirmation indicate your line the One moment please while we poll for questions. Our first question is coming from Matt Carletti with Citizens Capital Markets. Your line is live.

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

Hey, thanks. Good afternoon.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Afternoon, Matt. Afternoon.

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

Paresh, maybe I'll just follow on from your last comments there. And I don't know if this is a question for you or for Kevin. But could you just maybe give us a little more color on the homeowners market is a big market. And so if there's kind of particular areas of the market that you think Exeo is at least initially best suited to go after. And then secondly, whatever you can say on kind of reception from third parties or discussions with third parties that might be kind potential clients, you know, how that how that's gone, how that's going?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Matt, it's Parish. Yeah. In terms of the places we could do it, obviously, Agios technology has proven its metal in Florida. It's also proven its metal in lots of other states that some of our subsidiaries operate in. So we know we can do homeowners insurance in lots of states and markets very well.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

We actually are also looking at potentially using the technology for the lines of business. We've been doing this with commercial residential already, and there are other affiliated lines that we're looking at currently as well. So there is a broad applicability of this technology across multiple geographies and multiple lines of business. So that's the size of the opportunity we're looking at. In terms of, you know, attracting new new clients that are non HCI, we are, you know, we're in early discussions and early conversations, but part of the whole thing with this was we have been doing this in a very, you know, measured manner.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

First of all, prove the technology works beyond the shadow of a doubt, which hopefully has been done at this point. Secondly, you have to make sure that HCI, that Exio is capable of operating as stand alone company, which clearly with Suela's numbers, you can see that is the case. And thirdly, to do the separation, which we are now undertaking. And then the fourth item is to expand to new clients, etcetera. So we're doing this in a measured way, but the progress we're making, and I'm answering the question, but I would tell you, I'm so impressed by the exit team.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Every time they've been handled a task, it has got done on time and ahead of, you know, under budget ahead of schedule. It's just phenomenal to watch. Kevin, you want add anything?

Kevin Mitchell
President at Exzeo Group Inc

Yeah. Just to echo some of Paresh's comments, Matt, when we look at the market, the homeowners market itself is big. It's over $150,000,000,000 So massive opportunity. Right now, Exeo operates in just a small segment of the market. So based on these results, we see large opportunities coming our way over time.

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Maybe just a couple of follow ups, separate topics. I guess maybe for Mark, on the gross loss ratio, can you you mentioned kind of the favorable weather helped the quarter. Can you kind of any way to quantify that kind of versus what was normal?

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

And if we adjust for that, is that kind of the loss ratio you see for the foreseeable future, obviously absent any wind activity or anything like that?

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Yeah. So yeah, the loss ratio this quarter was a little under 20%, which actually was pretty similar to what it was in the fourth quarter last year when you adjust for Milton. We sometimes get lower claims for four, five, six months after a hurricane, less weather claims. If you look at a more normalized, kind of whether we'd expect loss ratio might be four, maybe five points higher. So when I had mentioned sort of the normalizing to get to that 70% combined ratio, I was thinking of a loss ratio of about 24%, twenty five %, which I think is a little bit more reflective of where we're at.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Obviously that's down significantly from where it was before, but I think that's about where we are now.

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

Okay. That's very helpful. And then one last one, again, don't know if it's for Karen or Parish. Just June 1 renewals coming up, I know you haven't announced anything yet, but I'm sure you've had lots of meetings with your reinsurers in various markets. Any kind of takeaways or color you can provide on kind of expectations or?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Yeah, Matt, we're obviously in the middle of negotiations and everything else we would expect to be at this time in the calendar. There's plenty of capacity out there. So it's the usual negotiation that goes on at this point, which is capacity and price and terms. So it's a very orderly, one would could almost say boring year in terms of placing reinsurance. Yeah?

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

Yeah. Boring is good in this case. So, thank you very much for the color. I appreciate it.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Mike Phillips with Oppenheimer.

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Maybe two other questions on the Ekso news. I guess, first, can you talk about, I guess, other options that you were considering besides the way you're going with the spin off and kind of the pros and cons of those and maybe why you're going with this one? I'm assuming it's because of the benefit, the tax free benefit, but maybe you can talk about that, just different options. And then also on ICO, are there advantages that the platform offers to potential partners? Are those advantages more or less depending on where the partners are admitted or not admitted partners?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Sure. So in terms of other ways of doing this, I think everybody had always thought about maybe we could do an IPO and then sell off or distribute the shares or do something on those lines. But those kinds of things are things you would do if you were needed to raise capital in order for, Aggio to to be healthy as a standalone company. It's already so healthy that it doesn't we don't need additional capital for it. So in that sense, it became, as you would expect us to do being a public company, is what what can we do to maximize the benefit to our existing shareholders?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

And that's what this is that led us to the spin off. Is if we can do it that way, it maximizes, the value creation for existing shareholders. And we have always, you know, always taken that into consideration in all of our actions, and this is no different. Yeah? What was the second part of your question again?

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Yeah, the second part was just, I'm curious if the advantages, know, XCO you've talked about how it's not just homeowners, but it does stuff for condo and other lines of business already internally. But I I was curious if the advantages that it offers to potential partners, are they different, more or less, for a partner that is a pure play admitted carrier and homeowners versus a non admitted carrier and homeowners? Does that matter?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

No. It doesn't actually, because the way the technology works, and, you know, it's on in the in the plumbing of the thing. It's trying to assemble a book of business to whichever kind of partner it is, so that is most optimized to to the profit margins and distribution that they want. Yeah? We just take all the heavy lifting out of doing that distribution.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

A better ENS doesn't make any difference. Yeah? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

you. I'm asking, it seems like, you know, the growth potential in homeowners over, okay, so in the near term seems to be, if I had to guess, seems to be more on the E and S side. Maybe you disagree with that, but if so, it'd be nice to see that those benefits are equal to both sides. That's why I was asking. Can you talk to just generally about how Florida property homeowner rates have moved in the past three months compared to what you were talking about last quarter in Florida?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Yes. So I think the Florida rates, I don't think there's been much movement in the last, three months or so. The other thing that's occurred, I think there's been a couple of new entrants into the marketplace, but that is normal activity that you would expect in a healthy marketplace. The other thing, going back to your earlier comment, yeah, we can do this with ENS just as effectively as we can do with admitted book carriers at this point, yeah?

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Okay. No. Good. Thanks. And then I guess lastly, just maybe thoughts on, I guess, the commercial market and how that relates to your core business and the condo business.

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

I noticed the premium was down there. Any kind of any thoughts on what drove those premiums down this quarter? And then just more generally, what's the competitive market look like in condo business?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

The condo business, commercial residential business is a lot more competitive. You know, when we started CORE, nobody wanted to be near that business, but suddenly everybody seems to wanna compete with core now that we've done it, which is fabulous. But, you know, we maintain our pricing discipline, and everything will work itself out in due course. Yeah?

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Okay. Anything I mean, is that competitive nature? Is that why the the core business was down this quarter?

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Hey. Mike, it's it's Mark. Are you looking at are you looking at the written premium number in the in the press release? Is that what you're referencing?

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Yeah. I don't have it in front of me, Mark. But, yeah, I I think so. Yeah.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Yeah. The one thing you just have to be careful of is it's actually not down. The thing you have to be careful of is

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Okay.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Just the way that the assumptions work. So we did the assumption one of the we did a significant assumption first quarter last year for core. And so just the way that you account for the written premium, that all got written in that one quarter. When you look at Q1 to Q1, it actually looks good. It's not down at all.

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I was looking at the seven versus the 19. Okay.

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Thanks, Mark. Okay. That's it for now. Thank you, Ray. Thanks, Jeff.

Matthew Carletti
Managing Director at Citizens JMP

Yeah.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Mark Hughes with Truist. Your line is live.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Yeah. Thank you. Good afternoon.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Good afternoon, Mark.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Harish, is your thought to spin off some of the shares, but still be able to consolidate, Exeo? How are you thinking about that?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Very simply, we're talking about total spin, total separation. Yeah,

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Mark, it's Mark. Yeah, I mean, they'd be two separate public companies and would not be consolidating operations

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

in fact, they would anymore.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Okay, very good. Mark, were there any reserve gains in the quarter?

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

I'm not sure. Do you mean net reserves? Did they change? Is that what you mean?

Michael Phillips
Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.

Or

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

are talking about Yeah, there's

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

no favorable development. There's no adverse development. That 19 whatever it was, it's just a straight up number. And actually, net reserves are actually up a little bit. We talked about that most quarters, net reserves go up a bit, so they did again.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

So we expensed $59,000,000 but again, our actual incurred losses were less than that. But no PPD, good or bad.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Yeah. And you had commented last quarter, I think, that your loss experience on the citizens' assumptions had been better than you expected. Do you have an update on that?

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's pretty similar to, you know, to the rest of the book. If you look at if you look at Tiptap and Homeowners Choice combined, you know, there's like maybe a 15% difference in the loss ratio. It's very small. And we had expected it to be, I don't mean the difference between 25 and you know what I mean.

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Very small difference between the two. And that was a little bit better than we initially anticipated when we got into it. I think that's an encouraging sign.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Yeah. Paresh, on rates, I think you said last quarter that you anticipated that rates would be steady for the balance of 2025 with this good profitability and I guess what you observe across the wider industry, what's your current sense of what pricing might be like, what your rate filing might be like balance of this year and into next year?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Yeah, Mark. I think as we you know, one of the nuances of the business is that every all the carriers on an annual basis file the rate rate indications and etcetera with the department. So just like the reinsurance thing, we're going through that process at this moment in time. And at the end of it, there will be some, there could be some minor rate adjustments. And one of the variable that's about to come up obviously is reinsurance, which I don't think is gonna be particularly significant, but because of all of those movements and the department had you know, to make a rate adjustment, we have to do all the work, file it with the department.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

The department has to go through its processes, approve it, and at that point, we then start implementing it. So given where we are currently, you're there isn't anything that's imminent. Right? There will always be rate changes eventually that will come through, but there is nothing imminent at this moment in time.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Yeah. And when we're doing that rate evaluation filing process, how far back do you go, Which is to say how much, you you've had some good quarters here lately, but how much weight goes into the filing process from those very recent quarters?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

I think, you know, if you were to do a rate filing today, I'm not an actuary, so I may get this off by a little bit, but it would be at best reflecting results up to the end of twenty twenty four. Yeah? Because I think the way they do it is you go to do the end of twenty twenty four results measured at the end of twin for end of q one twenty twenty five would be the most current way you could do it. So it would reflect some of the stuff in there, but that also includes, at that point, Helene and Milton. So you should keep that in mind as well. But this is just

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

Yeah.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

It it's a mechanical thing that happens. So it'll work itself through and, you know, rates fluctuate slowly over periods of time, whereas our results have tend to be much more volatile based on CAT activity. Yeah? Yeah. But it's normal stuff.

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

When you think about the Eggsio, is there peers in the public market that you think it looks like, or you think it's meaningfully different? Is there anybody you have in mind as kind of fits in the same niche, performs the same services?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Not in the insurance space, right? Because I think the way, and we get asked this question a lot, so bear with me a second while I walk everybody through this. What we're talking about the difference between what Exio does and the other people who provide, you know, policy admin systems, etcetera, is is the difference between, let's say Ford and Uber, right? Ford sells you a car, you put gas in it, you drive it from A to B. If you want, you know, it's a wonderful device to get you from A to B.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

On the other hand, Uber gets you from A to B as well, and it doesn't involve any of the purchasing an automobile or any of that stuff. It's Uber is more of a solution. Ford is a transportation system, if you like. Yeah? So in the same sense, Axio isn't a software system or anything else.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

It's more of a platform that solves a problem as it provides a solution. So very different, and it has important distinctions from just buying a piece of software. You're buying a solution, not not a a piece of software. Does that help?

Mark Hughes
Mark Hughes
Analyst at Truist Securities

It does. It does. Thank you very much. Appreciate

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

it. It.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Casey Alexander with Compass Point. Your line is live.

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I'm curious, in relation to Exeo, you know, the the spin off in making it fully independent from HCI, is is that in part to, resolve any conflict of interest when Exio goes out to a customer they're not owned or a division of a of a potentially competing insurance company?

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

Is that a part of the calculus for doing a spin off, a 100% spin off?

Kevin Mitchell
President at Exzeo Group Inc

Yeah. Hey, Casey, this is Kevin. Yeah, 100%. From our standpoint, that is going to be a lift a huge barrier and allow us to grow without any type of conflict.

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

Yeah, that makes sense. Kevin, would it be your anticipation that customers would be buying sort of a prepackaged software solution, or or is is everything kind of customized to each individual each individual client? How much do you are you gonna have to customize versus how much can you kind of prepack?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Hey, Casey. It's Parish. So let me kinda give it a techy answer for you. When you buy a Ford, you pick which whether you wanna buy a Ford or a GM or a Mercedes or a BMW. Right?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

When you go with an Uber, you just pay for the ride. In the same sense, how Exio works is Exio collects a fee every time a policy is bowed and and administered. If you don't bind a policy, there is no cost. So it's a very much a variable cost model, and it's a solution in that fashion. But when you do that at great volume, right?

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

It suddenly becomes incredibly powerful and incredibly valuable. You see other marketplaces of this nature, whether you think of Uber or Lyft, or if you were to think of, you know, Amazon or Spotify, or any of those kinds of distribution platforms. You're paying for by the transaction, but the transactions add up.

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I apologize. It's a technology neophyte, it kind of rolls right over my head sometimes.

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

The, you mentioned you're redeeming the, the 4 and 3 quarters convert. That would be your expectation that that you'd be redeeming that with cash or or settling it with shares?

Mark Harmsworth
Mark Harmsworth
Chief Financial Officer at HCI Group

Settling in shares.

Casey Alexander
Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC

Settling in shares. Okay. Great. Yeah. Alright. That's all I have right now. Thank you.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. At this time, this concludes our question and answer session. I would now like to turn the call back over to Paresh Patel, who has a few closing remarks.

Paresh Patel
Paresh Patel
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at HCI Group

On behalf of the entire management team, I would like to thank our shareholders, employees, agents, and most importantly, policyholders for their continued support as we embark on our next phase of our growth. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's call. You may now disconnect. And we thank you for your participation.

Executives
    • Bill Broomall
      Bill Broomall
      Investor Relations
    • Karin Coleman
      Karin Coleman
      COO, Director & President of Homeowners Choice
    • Mark Harmsworth
      Mark Harmsworth
      Chief Financial Officer
    • Paresh Patel
      Paresh Patel
      Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Analysts
    • Kevin Mitchell
      President at Exzeo Group Inc
    • Suela Bulku
      Senior Financial Officer & Controller at TypTap Insurance Group
    • Matthew Carletti
      Managing Director at Citizens JMP
    • Michael Phillips
      Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.
    • Mark Hughes
      Analyst at Truist Securities
    • Casey Alexander
      Senior Vice President & Research Analyst at Compass Point Research & Trading LLC
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