TriNet Group Q2 2025 Earnings Report

TriNet Group EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $1.15
• Consensus EPS: $1.03
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$0.12
• One Year Ago EPS: $1.53

TriNet Group Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $282.90 million
• Expected Revenue: $278.93 million
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$3.97 million
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

TriNet Group Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q2 2025
• Date: 7/25/2025
• Time: Before Market Opens
• Conference Call Date: Friday, July 25, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 8:30AM ET

TriNet Group (NYSE:TNET) provides comprehensive and flexible human capital management services for small and medium size businesses in the United States. The company offers multi-state payroll processing and tax administration; employee benefits programs, including health insurance and retirement plans; workers compensation insurance and claims management; employment and benefits law compliance; and other HR related services. It also provides technology platform, an online and mobile tool that allows users to store, view, and manager HR information and administer various HR transactions, such as payroll processing, tax administration and credits, employee onboarding and termination, employee performance, time and attendance, compensation reporting, expense management, and benefits enrollment and administration, as well as incorporated workforce analytics and allows professional employer organization clients to generate HR data, payroll, compensation, and other custom reports. The company serves clients in various industries, including technology, professional services, financial services, life sciences, and not-for-profit. It sells its solutions through its direct sales organization. TriNet Group, Inc. was incorporated in 1988 and is headquartered in Dublin, California.

TriNet Group Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• Positive Sentiment: TriNet reiterated its full‐year 2025 revenue guidance of $4.95 billion–$5.14 billion and affirmed EPS outlook, tracking modestly above the midpoint.
• Positive Sentiment: The company realized an average 9% increase in health plan fees per member, positioning its insurance cost ratio to return to the 87–90% target range by 2026.
• Positive Sentiment: Customer hiring improved in Q2, with CIE up ~0.5 percentage points year-over-year—the first Q2 uptick in several years—indicating potential demand stabilization.
• Positive Sentiment: Operating expenses declined 2% year-over-year, helping drive an 8.5% adjusted EBITDA margin in Q2 amid continued efficiency and automation gains.
• Negative Sentiment: Total worksite employees fell 4% year-over-year to roughly 339,000, with co-employed WSEs down 8%, reflecting ongoing volume headwinds.

Presentation

[Operator]

Good day, and welcome to the TriNet Second Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Alex Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

[Alex Bauer, VP - IR at TriNet Group]

Thank you, operator. Good morning. My name is Alex Bauer, TriNet's Head of Investor Relations. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to TriNet's second quarter conference call and webcast. I'm joined today by our President and CEO, Mike Simons and our CFO, Kelly Timonelli.

[Alex Bauer, VP - IR at TriNet Group]

Before we begin, I would like to preview this morning's call. I'll first pass the call to Mike, where he will comment on our second quarter performance and discuss our progress on our strategy and medium term outlook. Kelly will then review our Q2 financial performance in greater detail. Please note that today's discussion will include references to our 2025 full year financial outlook or medium term outlook and other statements that are not historical in nature or predictive in nature or depend upon or refer to future events or conditions such as our expectations, estimates, predictions, strategies, beliefs or other statements that might be considered forward looking. These forward looking statements are based on management's current expectations and assumptions and are inherently subject to risks, uncertainties and changes in circumstances that are difficult to predict and that may cause actual results to differ materially from statements being made today or in the future.

[Alex Bauer, VP - IR at TriNet Group]

Except as may be required by law, we do not undertake to update any of these statements in light of new information, future events or otherwise. We encourage you to review our most recent public filings with the SEC, including our 10 ks and 10 Q filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks, uncertainties and changes in circumstances that may affect our future results or the market price of our stock. In addition, our discussion today will include non GAAP financial measures, including our forward looking guidance for adjusted EBITDA and adjusted net income per diluted share. For reconciliations of our non GAAP financial measures to our GAAP financial results, please see our earnings release, 10 Q filings or 10 ks filing, which are or will be available on our website or through the SEC website. With that, I will turn the call over to Mike. Mike?

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Thank you Alex. In a quarter marked by significant market and economic volatility TriNet delivered financial and operating performance consistent with our expectations which allows us here at the end of the second quarter to reiterate our full year outlook. While there are several areas we are working quickly to improve, overall I'm pleased with our results and with the execution of our plans to reposition TriNet for long term profitable growth. Our first priority is to deliver strong service and retain our customers as we reprice our benefits offering to account for the sustained health care cost trends being experienced across the market. We are on track with these efforts. Second, we are investing in our distribution capabilities and benefits offering in advance of the fall selling season, targeting improved momentum on the new business front.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Importantly, even as we improve our service, distribution and offering, we continue to deliver prudent expense management and gain efficiencies, freeing up resources to reinvest in the business and building confidence in our team's ability to execute. The challenging market and economic environment resulted in weaker business sentiment once again impacting sales conversion rates and customer hiring. This reality underscores the importance of the investments we're making to differentiate our offering and go to market approach heading into our fall selling season. I'll touch on our progress with these changes in just a minute. Before I go deeper into our financial and operating performance, I want to reiterate our strategy which frames how I talk about our business.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Through the execution of our medium term strategy, we intend for total revenues to achieve a compounded annual growth rate of 4% to 6% and our adjusted EBITDA margins to expand to 10% to 11% which taken together will ultimately drive annualized value creation of 13% to 15% through earnings growth supplemented by share repurchases and dividends. Beginning with revenues, our second quarter was in line with our plan and we continue to expect full year 2025 total revenues to be in the range of four point nine to five point one billion dollars. The key drivers for revenue growth remain health plan fee increases, strong customer retention, and new sales growth emerging later in the year. While our full year forecast assumes net customer hiring will remain low throughout 2025, it's worth noting we did see improvement in customer hiring this quarter, up about half a percentage point over prior year. The second quarter is our most impactful customer hiring quarter and this is the first Q2 in several years where we've seen year over year improvement.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

This second quarter also represents a modest three quarter positive trend in year over year CIE. We will watch closely to see if this positive trend continues in the coming quarters. Kelly will speak to some of the underlying drivers of CIE in her remarks. In terms of insurance revenues, we made further progress with our health plan fee increases during the quarter. We are balancing our need to reprice and improve our insurance cost ratio with our focus on retention and supporting our customers through this challenging environment.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

As a point of reference, during the second quarter we realized an average increase in health fees per enrolled member of roughly 9% when compared to prior year. This is after plan design buy downs which clients use to manage the fee increases and effectively reduces risk to TriNet. On a risk adjusted basis we are achieving the pricing levels needed to improve our insurance cost ratio as planned. As I noted on our last call we achieved our pricing targets with strong retention for our April 1 renewal. Similarly our July 1 renewals have gone well.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Thanks to the strong execution of my colleagues retention remains above our historical average both in our year to date results and in our outlook. As you might expect combined with an uncertain economic environment our health plan fee increases have created a headwind for sales when compared with last year. That said the quality of the new customers coming on is strong with a higher percentage falling into our targeted verticals and with sustainable insurance and professional services pricing. We remain confident that as we move through the second half, new sales will begin to improve on a year over year basis. Part of this confidence is based on the encouraging results of market testing with our new health plan offering.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Our new benefit bundles leverage our broad and growing set of carrier partnerships and plan designs paired with our proprietary data to create new combinations that meet customer needs for coverage and price and have the important added benefit of simplifying the sales process. I mentioned that our carrier partnerships are growing. We regularly look at the health insurance options in each of our markets and target the leading carriers with the best plans and the strongest networks. As we head into our fall selling season, we are adding attractive new options in markets which represent strong growth opportunities. Our growing confidence in new sales is also based on the expansion of our go to market approach.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

We've established preferred broker programs with several national partners where we have aligned on new sales and retention targets as well as created dedicated quoting, sales, and service teams. Beyond our national partnerships, we also increased our outreach, simplified the onboarding process, and enhanced compensation for local brokers. As a result of these efforts, we are beginning to see encouraging growth in the number of local brokers using our platform. For our direct channel, we are launching new AI enabled prospecting tools and have made several improvements to simplify and streamline the selling process for our reps. Our average median tenure continues to grow as we've had good success retaining our most tenured people.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Finally, perhaps some of you have noted our new marketing campaign, your path, our purpose, which highlights a number of TriNet's amazing clients and the work we do in enabling them to grow their business. We have a great story to tell, and it's gratifying to see the positive response in both our direct and brokerage channels. Overall, we are in a much improved go to market position as we enter the fall selling season and indeed we are already seeing strength in new business proposals for 3Q. Returning to our medium term strategy, the second feature is achieving our target margin of 10 to 11%. And on this front, I'm pleased with both our disciplined approach to managing our insurance cost ratio and continued strong expense management. As mentioned earlier, we are achieving our health plan fee targets.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Investments we made in insurance expertise, improved forecasting and more disciplined process management are paying off. We now have we've observed more than six quarters of stable, albeit heightened, health care claim cost increases and our confidence in the adequacy of our fee levels continues to strengthen. We are on track to deliver our forecasted 2025 insurance cost ratio and carry momentum into 2026 bringing us back into our long term targeted range of 87 to 90%. Our other major lever for achieving our margin target is expenses and for the second straight quarter expenses declined year over year and outperformed our forecast. We continue to benefit from our application of technology to our business processes and from our talent optimization.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

On the talent front, next month we open our new Atlanta office. This office is central to our effort to build a stronger hybrid in office culture supportive of talent development and enhanced collaboration, all happening in the middle of one of the fastest growing regions in The US. We are excited about TriNet's future, and this office represents a significant investment in that future and our ability to invest even while improving margins overall. Our strong expense management and in line insurance cost ratio allowed us to continue our history of deploying capital through dividends and share repurchases while still investing in growth. In summary having reached the midpoint of 2025 I'm pleased with our increasingly predictable results and stronger execution.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

We are on track to introduce our product and go to market improvements for our fall selling season. We continue to price to risk balancing the needs of our customers with our goal of returning our ICR to our target range And we continue to optimize our business gaining efficiencies while investing in talent and technology for the future. With that let me pass the call to Kelly for her financial review. Kelly?

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Thank you Mike. We're pleased to see second quarter earnings in line with expectations. We are successfully repricing our benefit offerings positioning us to return to our targeted ICR range in 2026. Like first quarter, these repricing efforts coupled with the uncertainty in the economy created a headwind for sales and retention. It's important to note that we're still on track to achieve our historical retention rate of 80% or better.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

We remain disciplined in our expense management while balancing the need to invest in initiatives to grow our business profitably as outlined in our medium term strategy. As we look to the second half, we're positioned to improve go to market efforts and achieve our full year earnings guidance. Total revenue was flat in the second quarter on a year over year basis. Total revenue performance in the quarter was supported by insurance repricing and interest income. Interest income was higher than originally forecasted driven by increased balances attributable to the timing of tax refunds.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Timing of these refunds are intermittent and difficult to predict. Customer hiring was slightly better than our overall estimate and supportive of total revenues. However, overall WSE volume declined due to customer attrition that was higher than new sales proving to be an overall headwind to revenue growth. We finished the quarter with approximately 339,000 total WSEs down 4% year over year and 309,000 co employed WSEs down 8%. The decline in co employed WSEs was driven by reduced new sales when compared with the prior year and higher overall attrition with the incremental attrition driven largely due to healthy increases.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Similar to our Q1 experience, we faced a difficult Q2 sales comparison as we were operating in a much different expected health cost environment last year and we've sharpened our pricing discipline to reflect higher observed trends. Retention of co employed WSCs was lower this quarter by approximately 1.5 points when compared to the prior year. Given our repricing efforts, we are pleased with our overall retention rates and we remain on track to beat our historical retention benchmark. As Mike noted, we experienced growth in CIE in the quarter. Historically, we've seen strong seasonal customer hiring in the second quarter as customers hire recent college grads or staff up for the summer months.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

And this year, we saw that trend once again. Unique to this year, our existing customers reduced the number of gross reductions in force across their employee base. The combination of hiring with customers holding on to more of their employees resulted in improvement hiring across nearly all of our core verticals with technology, financial services, and non profit standing out. So again, while we're encouraged to see some improvement with customer hiring, total CIE in the quarter was about half a normal pre COVID quarter. And given the broader environment, we are maintaining our current full year CIE forecast a very low single digit contribution.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Professional services revenue in the second quarter declined 8% year over year largely due to two main reasons including lower WSE volumes as well as the discontinuation of a specific client level technology fee. Professional services revenue was supported by mid single digit pricing strength. HRIS fees and ASO revenues including those resulting from HRIS conversions decreased slightly year over year as the company transitions away from a SaaS only solution. The ASO conversion rate exceeded initial forecasts indicating ongoing demand for services that partially mitigated the impact of reduced PEO volume. Total insurance revenue grew 1% in the second quarter.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

We are seeing the impact from our benefit repricing efforts as revenue per average enrolled member has increased by approximately 9% year over year. We expect sustained positive results from these repricing actions in the second half of the year positioning us to achieve our targeted ICR range in 2026. Total insurance costs grew in the second quarter to 3%. As a result our second quarter insurance cost ratio came in at a little over 90%. The ICR was slightly higher than we were originally expecting during the quarter driven by a higher proportion of older health claims submitted this quarter that were incurred in early twenty twenty four which was an anomaly relative to historical lag periods.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

We also faced an approximately $20,000,000 or two point ICR headwind when compared to the last year from an outsized workers' comp reserve release in Q2 twenty twenty four. With the mix of our current book and smaller remaining reserves, we expect fewer major reserve releases moving forward. Taken altogether, we're encouraged by the trends we're seeing that position us well to return to our targeted ICR range in 2026. Second quarter operating expenses were down 2% year over year. We continue to manage expenses tightly as we benefited from further automation and our workforce strategy.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

While we prudently manage expenses, we continue to reinvest a portion of the savings into our medium term strategic initiatives driving growth and improving our customer experience while also investing in process efficiencies. Second quarter GAAP earnings per diluted share was $0.77 and our adjusted earnings per diluted share was $1.15 During the quarter we continued with strong cash generation. We generated $105,000,000 in adjusted EBITDA representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 8.5%. Operating activities in the first half generated $170,000,000 in net cash and $136,000,000 in free cash flow. Our first half twenty twenty five free cash flow conversion ratio was 51% and in line with our 2025 plan.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

As we look over the medium term, our business will benefit from operating leverage. As earnings accelerate through revenue growth and our ICR returns to our targeted range we expect our free cash flow conversion rate to improve to our 60% to 65% target. Now turning to capital actions. In the quarter we paid a 27.5¢ dividend per share representing a 10% increase year over year. In total we've deployed just over 117,000,000 to shareholders through the first half or 87% of free cash flow ahead of our annual 75% target.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Earlier in July we did repay our outstanding balance of $90,000,000 on our credit line getting us closer to our targeted leverage ratio of 1.5 to two times adjusted EBITDA. Our capital return priorities for 2025 remain consistent. We aim to deliver shareholder value through continued investment in our value creation initiatives, funding dividends and share buybacks and maintaining a suitable operating liquidity buffer. Turning to the 2025 outlook, based on second quarter performance, the full year guidance remains unchanged and earnings are currently tracking modestly above the midpoint of the projected range. As a reminder, for 2025, we expect total revenues to be in the range of 4,950,000,000.00 to 5,140,000,000.00.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

We expect professional services revenue to range from 700 to $730,000,000. Our insurance cost ratio to be in the range of 90 to 92% and our adjusted EBITDA margin to be from just under 7% to approximately 8.5%. Finally, we expect GAAP earnings per diluted share to be in the range of $1.9 to $3.4 and adjusted earnings per diluted share to be $3.25 to $4.75 In conclusion, we had a good second quarter. We had two abnormal and largely offsetting impacts to earnings, strong interest revenue and older health claims. Setting these items aside, we're confident that our earnings are tracking modestly above the midpoint of our range.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

We are advancing initiatives designed to enhance our offerings all aimed at driving profitable growth, efficiencies, and returning us to our targeted insurance cost ratio range by 2026. We are well positioned for the second half of the year, and I'm proud of the continued execution by our dedicated colleagues. With that, I'll pass the call to the operator for Q and A.

[Operator]

We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question comes from Jared Levine with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

[Jared Levine, Director - Equity Research at Cowen]

Thank you. I guess to start here, can you discuss how top of funnel activity and pace of perspective client decision making has trended since 1Q, including your thoughts on relative impacts from the macro uncertainty versus the health care cost inflation?

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Morning, Jared. Thanks for the question. I appreciate it. I do think both of those factors were in play here in the first half in terms of new sales. We look at that funnel as you would with various stages.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

And we've seen when it gets to the point of more sort of brass tacks detailed proposal, and it's in the hands of the client, that's where we've seen a lengthening in that sales cycle year over year. So that's been certainly a contributor to it. The second piece is, that, as you mentioned, the professional and, healthy pricing. And in general, I would just make sure that everybody realizes, while we certainly have increased the outlooks and the application of that through our pricing processes, we really we are still finding ourselves very much in the market. We're not putting prices out there that are terribly different than competition.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

It's simply the year over year compare, the orientation that we had, around health care fee increases and relative to competition, it's just materially changed. As we look forward and I think this is really the important part at the funnel and how pricing is showing up relative to competition, as we look at the capabilities that are now going into the market through the fall selling season, we're really encouraged that we're going to start to see an improvement in the year over year variances on the new business front.

[Jared Levine, Director - Equity Research at Cowen]

Great. And then in terms of sales headcount, good to hear that you've seen some traction in terms of retention on the tenured reps here. But I guess how is sales headcount trending through 2Q here? And are you still targeting modest growth for the year?

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. Great question. And really important when you think about the productivity of our reps at 24 and really at thirty six months, it's materially different. And the team's done a great job putting changes in place, and we've seen really good retention of those really valuable reps. That's ultimately, in the short to midterm, what's going to drive capacity, for us.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

And so I really don't have capacity concerns here as we go into the important second half selling season. We did use sort of the tail of last year and the first half of this year to retool, how we go about our profiling, recruiting and training program. We've rolled out new approaches to that. We are now ramping up our, new rep hiring. I think we have a lot more confidence that those investments we're making in new talent coming into the business today, we'll see many more of them reach that thirty six month mark.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

So in aggregate, in absolute numbers, we've got a little bit fewer reps on the street today than we had a year ago. However, the capacity is in a very good place to put the attention of senior reps, And I am very confident about the quality of the class that's coming on here, and it's going to help us through the 'twenty six and 'twenty seven years.

[Jared Levine, Director - Equity Research at Cowen]

Great. Thank you.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Thanks, Jared.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Andrew Nicholas with William Blair. Please go ahead.

[Andrew Nicholas, Research Analyst - Global Services at William Blair]

Thank you for taking my questions. Mike, you just alluded to it a little bit in the answer to your first question. But just on the competitive environment, it sounds like you're relatively close to where others are from a pricing perspective. Are are you seeing any, actions or postures from competitors that are different versus last year in terms of how aggressive they are on price or what they're doing to kind of win deals relative to what you've seen in the past?

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Morning, Andrew. Thanks for the questions. And When you have the macro that we've got with a little bit more uncertainty in it in terms of the economic outlook, certainly, it's going to be a competitive market out there as people do compete for the business that does make decisions in the period. But I wouldn't say anything abnormal. And I do think it's worth noting, right, TriNet's a little bit different from most, scaled PEOs in that we've invested pretty significantly in our Insurance Services group, added a good amount of talent and improved our discipline in the application of our improved forecasting.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

And we do that on a quarterly basis. And we've talked about that before, but I think it's an important point. It certainly means that there's a cohort of customers that we're taking our very sort of most up to date point of view on health care and applying that through our FEED, at renewal time each quarter. But we also do that with new business. So every 90 days, we're adjusting our new business pricing and outlook.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

And so when you're in an accelerated cost environment, I think TriNet is going get there a little quicker in terms of adequately pricing our health fees. Think as we're now starting to see more stability, albeit at a heightened level of cost inflation, I think we sort of see the market coming in closer to where we're seeing things on a go forward basis. So I think it's actually a pretty constructive environment here as we're heading into the second half of twenty twenty six.

[Andrew Nicholas, Research Analyst - Global Services at William Blair]

Great. That's helpful. And then maybe, Kelly, if you could speak a little bit more to health care trends in the quarter. I heard you on I think, this prior period development, that being a little bit onetime. But if if you could speak to kinda what you're seeing under the hood there in a little bit more detail, that'd be helpful. Thank you.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. No problem at all, Andrew. You know, what I would say in general on health care, we're seeing some of the the same similar trends. So from, you know, from a large complex claim perspective, we did see a slight anomaly in the quarter, mainly with one specific carrier. And as I look at those, and then we've had discussions actually with our other carriers as well, we don't really see a backlog and see that largely as one time.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

So similar trends, pharma and kind of the mid teens inflation rate and medical high single digit, but right in line with our expectation other than the onetime claims.

[Andrew Nicholas, Research Analyst - Global Services at William Blair]

Understood. Thank you.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Kyle Peterson with Needham. Please go ahead.

[Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company]

Great. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Wanted to start out on kind of where, you know, client hiring and and CIE trended throughout the quarter. It does sound like it came in a little better than you guys were originally, budgeting for, which is great.

[Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company]

But I guess, like, was the improvement fairly linear and, like, was, you know, May better or was May better than April and June better than May, or or was there, you know, a standout month in there, in particular? I guess that's what my main question was, the the trajectory there and if it was smooth or a little lumpier.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Great, Kyle. Happy to answer that question. When we looked at CIE, you know, we had a similar question, honestly, because we were hearing, you know, different different sound bites as people were looking at labor data, etcetera. For us, it was pretty linear. So we really saw just steady CIE throughout the quarter.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

The bright spots, really tech, particularly in software as well as tech consulting. You know, financial services, really more family office type things, and in nonprofit, both in schools and social advocacy organizations. So but generally, you know, we just saw steady Eddie, couple 100 favorable to what our original expectations were.

[Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company]

Okay. That is is really helpful and and great to hear. And then I guess in the as a follow-up on the professional services revenue, I know there's a lot of moving pieces there. But I guess, could you quantify the impact of some of the whether it's the ASO transition and or, like, the the Clarus divestiture. Just wanna see, like, if you guys have, like, an like, an apples to apples, at least, for the the Clarus impact just so we can kinda see what the organic trend is there.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. Well, when I look at at professional services revenue year over year, probably the biggest decline in professional service revenue really relates to a client specific level technology fee. So putting that aside, we're pleased with the ASO conversion. While we're probably down about a million dollars on HRIS in total, the mix is good, the conversion looks like it's it's going well. And coming into the year, we really had expected about a 15,000,000 to $20,000,000 headwind on ASO and HRIS, and I'd really expect that to be probably about five better than what I'd initially expected there.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

And it's really helping offset some of the volume volume impacts on PEO overall.

[Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company]

Okay. That's good to hear.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Great. And to answer your Claris question specifically, I think we're down about 2,000,000 no Claris revenue now, whereas we had about $2,000,000 in the same quarter last year.

[Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company]

Okay. Okay. Thanks for the clarification and for taking my questions. Nice quarter.

[Andrew Nicholas, Research Analyst - Global Services at William Blair]

Thanks, Kyle.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Kevin Levy with UBS. Please go ahead.

[Kevin McVeigh, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Great. Thanks so much and congratulations in navigating a tough environment for sure. Hey, I guess, I don't know if this is Kelly or Mike, but you reaffirmed the guidance again after kind of two beats. Is that just conservatism or maybe a little bit of shift in the back half of the year? How are you thinking about that?

[Kevin McVeigh, Managing Director at UBS Group]

And then if it is a little bit of shift, can you dimensionalize where that sits primarily?

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Great. Well, Kevin, you know, we always have a a level of seasonality within our business, and so pleased with the results so far. They're just really you know, we see ourselves landing within the range overall. And right now, we're tracking modestly above the midpoint. So as I'm looking at the back half of the year, obviously, we expect a level of seasonality associated with the insurance cost ratio.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

But that's that's really it. I'm I'm pleased with the expense efficiencies, and I think we're on track.

[Kevin McVeigh, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Great. And then just the the late claims from '24, I mean, I don't typically remember something that far back. Can you help us maybe dimensionalize that a little bit what it was? And then is there a way to think about how much impact the claims were in the quarter versus maybe the interest income versus the professional fees just to get a sense of you know, the absolute dollars against those three things?

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. Happy to talk about it. You know, when I think about the lag claims, you know, just to kinda reiterate the prior question, you know, or prior caller question, we always have some older claims from 2024. Our lag factors do a multiyear look back and evaluate that. These were just outsized with one specific carrier.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

You know, some some other complex clients that we normally don't see in there definitely outsized for the quarter. It, by and large, offset the favorability in interest income. So within a couple million dollars of the higher claims offsetting the higher interest income, we view those both as pretty much anomalous. From a professional services revenue perspective, we were right on track with our expectations. So I know we were a little bit above where I saw analyst consensus models for PSR.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

But in terms of the range that we gave, 700,000,000 to $730,000,000 we see ourselves kind of landing somewhere in the middle there.

[Kevin McVeigh, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Great. Thank you.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from David Grossman with Stifel Financial. Please go ahead.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Good morning. Thank you. I'm wondering, because of last year was somewhat of an unusual year and a lot of transitions in the business, Can you review for us just some of the major comparison dynamics that we should think about as we go into the back half of the year, whether it be sales growth, WSA WSE growth, margin dynamics, etcetera?

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. David, why don't I take that, and then maybe Mike can come in over the top with anything I might miss here. But as we're thinking about it being a transition year, you know, we our original forecast did assume WSEs are down. So, you know, as we were looking at the size of the health plan increases we had to put forward, we expected to have a level of attrition better than historical average, but, still, you know, a couple points higher than what was really a record year from a retention perspective. From a sales perspective, we also expected that to be a little bit down because we had a a little more, I'd say, realistic view on where health planning increases were gonna be and what what we had to to do there from a new pricing perspective.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

I think about CIE, from a worksite employee perspective, we were expecting maybe slightly better. And frankly, that's what we're seeing. Still, though, our forecast assumes low single digit. We did you know, when when we went into the year, I think I I just mentioned we were expecting HRIS and ASO to be about a 15 to $20,000,000 headwind. On professional services revenue, that's probably looking more like, you know, $10.10 to 15 at this point in time and other other changes.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

And then from an expense perspective, you know, we had indicated that expenses would be, lower year over year, and we're kinda outpacing the the pace of automation and and just efficiency overall. Interest income, that that's one I probably didn't touch on. We'd expected rates to be maybe a little bit lower than, they're really trending right now and really hadn't anticipated the accrued interest related to certain tax payments. So that won't be as much of a headwind year over year either. Anything you want to add

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Got it. That,

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

I think yeah. No, I think you covered it well. I think the key point being the execution is there, and it's encouraging. So it takes a little bit of time, but it's coming through. So the key quality metrics talked a little bit about in the opening.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Seeing the health fee increases come through on a per member basis, we finally caught that cost trend. And so outside of the seasonality that Kelly talked about, we're sort of right on track to head back into that historical range next year. And then certainly, the WSE is down. I don't expect further degradation in terms of the year over year compare. Recall, we're going into our ten-1s and one-one renewals.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

That's about 70% of our revenue we're going to renew in the second half of the year. We had really put a more disciplined process in place with ten-one-twenty four. That was our first quarter. So we're kind of second time through there. And I think that bodes well in terms of striking that good balance of retention and staying ahead of that cost trend.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

So the quality underneath the volume, I'm encouraged on as we go through the second quarter. And I think you'll see that year over year compares.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

And Mike, you touched upon this in your prepared remarks just in terms of your progress in the broker channel. And I think you were if I heard you right, you were distinguishing between national and local brokers. Do you want to talk a little bit about at least what your expectations are in the back half of the year based on what you're seeing? Is it really is this really more of a 2026 dynamic where you see, you know, kind of a a bigger contribution per channel? Or is it realistic to expect that we could see some momentum in that channel in the back half of the year during, obviously, your biggest selling season?

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Yes. I fully expect it will be additive here, David, in the second half of the year. So we've put several national agreements in place. Those are starting to build real traction. We sort of put those agreements in place.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

And I think it's important just to note that it's both new sales and retention. We're looking to sort of build high quality, sticky customer base over time with distributors that really sort of understand our value proposition and the quality that we're trying to deliver. So I think, in particular, we're seeing it in the growth in proposals that we're producing for that channel. That's already moving up. On the local level, that's where we start to see the number of brokers using our platform.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

It has started to increase. We're sort of in the mid single digits and year over year increase on that front already. So that's quite encouraging. I think in terms of it playing all the way through to WSE and professional service revenue growth, certainly, that's going to be tail end of the year and the January effect as we really start to see those the closed business coming through in the financials. But I'd expect that momentum starts to build here actually in the second half of the year.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Great. Got it. And then just lastly on I think there's already been some questions on the CIE growth. I'm just trying to recall, I think sorry, I got cut off the call for a few minutes, so maybe I missed this. But it sounds like the second quarter seasonality is related to summer hiring.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Did I hear that correctly? And if so, what exactly can we conclusions can we draw from you being slightly ahead of plan? Because I think probably contrary to some of the other, you know, small business, you know, kind of employment trends that are out in the marketplace that we've seen that or maybe the bar was really low. I it could be that as well. I'm just trying to better understand whether there's much to read into the fact that CIU was slightly better.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

And I know and also maybe in the context of that response, maybe you can talk a little bit whether or not it's unique to TriNet. You're over indexed, obviously, to you know, Bay Area hiring in the tech sector, and maybe that just got less worse. So just, again, trying to understand that dynamic.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. David, it's a great question. And as we're looking at kind of peeling apart the underlying data associated with CIE, you're right from the standpoint of it it is a low compare. You know, it's about the CIE was favorable to our expectations by a couple 100, so we're not talking a huge number. And that's why our our outlook is still low single digit.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

But, really, what we thought wasn't as much of seasonal hiring, but really just fewer layoffs. And so as we look at kind of the pieces of who's hiring and who's reducing, we're seeing a trend of kind of fewer people being let go, which I think is a a positive trend overall. And we did see that sort of steady through April, May, and and June. Regarding, you know, verticals, both financial services and tech were pretty strong on a percentage basis. Also nonprofit, but it is a smaller vertical for us, so it didn't have as much of an impact on the total number from a CIE perspective.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

The the hiring in Main Street, it was a little lower than that, but still it's a little bit bigger vertical, so it made up more. But I would say probably half the hiring in Main Street was more seasonally related with things like hospitality.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Perfect. And then I'm sorry. I have one other thing I just wanted to ask. Are the outsized larger claims related to the Change Healthcare situation where, you know, processing was, you know, just getting caught up to where we you know, where it should be and your some older claims are coming in or because I know you said it was related to one carrier. Just wondering if that's it or whether just totally unrelated.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Yeah. You know, David, we sort of had that hypothesis as we were looking into it as well, but we really haven't found any evidence to indicate that. So, you know, we we did wanna make sure that we spent the requisite amount of time with each of our carriers to really kick the tires around backlogs and processing times and any differences that we needed to to to pick up on. But since it was really isolated to one of our carriers, I I feel pretty good about you know, it is an anomaly in the quarter for the most part. It was about a third larger than we would normally see, which is definitely outsized from what we would see in any month.

[David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Got it. All right, great. Thanks very much. Good luck in the second half.

[Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO at TriNet Group]

Great. Thanks, This

[Operator]

concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mike Simons for any closing remarks.

[Mike Simonds, President & CEO at TriNet Group]

Thanks, Megan, and thanks, everyone, for joining. Encouraged by the results here at the midpoint, and hopefully, you pick up a sense of confidence from us in the building momentum in the business. And we very much look forward to keeping you posted in the coming quarters. So Megan, with that, we can conclude the call.

[Operator]

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Participants

Executives

• Alex Bauer, VP - IR
• Mike Simonds, President & CEO
• Kelly Tuminelli, EVP & CFO

Analysts

• Jared Levine, Director - Equity Research at Cowen
• Andrew Nicholas, Research Analyst - Global Services at William Blair
• Kyle Peterson, Senior Analyst at Needham & Company
• Kevin McVeigh, Managing Director at UBS Group
• David Grossman, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp