Crescent Capital BDC Q2 2025 Earnings Report

Crescent Capital BDC EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.46
• Consensus EPS: $0.46
• Beat/Miss: Met Expectations
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

Crescent Capital BDC Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $42.99 million
• Expected Revenue: $42.52 million
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$475.00 thousand
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

Crescent Capital BDC Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q2 2025
• Date: 8/13/2025
• Time: After Market Closes
• Conference Call Date: Thursday, August 14, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 12:00PM ET

Crescent Capital BDC (NASDAQ:CCAP) is as a business development company private equity / buyouts and loan fund. It specializes in directly investing. It specializes in middle market. The fund seeks to invest in United States.

Crescent Capital BDC Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• Positive Sentiment: Reported net investment income of $0.48 per share (excluding one-time items) with 110% dividend coverage, exceeding the regular dividend.
• Neutral Sentiment: NAV per share dipped by 0.4% in Q2, largely due to the $0.05 special dividend, and the board approved a $20 million share repurchase program.
• Positive Sentiment: Portfolio remains highly diversified with 187 companies, 91% in first-lien loans and an average loan-to-value of ~39%, targeting lower-middle market credits.
• Negative Sentiment: Internally rated watch-list investments rose to 14% and non-accruals stand at 2.4%, suggesting some emerging credit pressure despite proactive monitoring.
• Positive Sentiment: Second-quarter gross deployments totaled $58 million, 99% first-lien at an average ~480 bps spread, while the Crescent platform secured $1.3 billion of new commitments.

Presentation

[Operator]

Good morning, and welcome to Crescent Capital BDC, Inc. Second Quarter Ended 06/30/2025 Earnings Conference Call. Please note that Crescent Capital BDC, Inc. May be referred to as CCAP, Crescent BDC or the company throughout the call. I'll start with some important reminders.

[Operator]

Comments made over the course of this conference call and webcast may contain forward looking statements and are subject to risks and uncertainties. The company's actual results could differ materially from those expressed in such forward looking statements for any reason, including those listed in its SEC filings. The company assumes no obligation to update any such forward looking statements. Please note that past performance or market information is not a guarantee of future results. I'll now turn the call over to Dan McNam.

[Dan McMahon, SVP & Head - IR at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thank you. Yesterday, after the market closed, the company issued its earnings press release for the second quarter ended 06/30/2025, and posted a presentation to the Investor Relations section of its website at www.crescentbdc.com. The presentation should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10 Q filed yesterday with the SEC. As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Speaking on today's call will be CCAP's Chief Executive Officer, Jason Bro President, Henry Chung and Chief Financial Officer, Gerard Lombard.

[Dan McMahon, SVP & Head - IR at Crescent Capital BDC]

With that, I'd now like to turn it over to Jason.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thank you, Dan. Hello, everyone, and thank you all for joining us. I'll start today's call by summarizing our second quarter results, follow that with some thoughts on the market and touch on our portfolio. In terms of second quarter earnings, we reported net investment income of $0.46 per share compared to $0.45 per share in the first quarter. Excluding $02 per share of one time accelerated amortization related to deferred financing costs, NII was $0.48 per share.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Importantly, remain in excess of our dividend with 110% base dividend coverage for the quarter. NAV per share was down approximately 0.4% for the quarter, driven primarily by the second of three previously announced $05 per share special dividends related to spillover income that was paid during the quarter. Now let's discuss what we are seeing in our markets and our positioning. Deal activity remained relatively constrained in Q2, given ongoing tariff discussions and regulatory uncertainty. This policy driven volatility has augmented an already robust pipeline of potential PE exits.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Hold times for many private equity owned assets continue to extend, furthering the pressure from LPs to both deploy dry powder and return capital. During periods of heightened volatility that typically include reductions in overall M and A volume, our deployment benefits from a large and diversified existing portfolio across the Crescent private credit platform. Across the platform, add ons to existing portfolio companies accounted for approximately half of total investments by count during the second quarter. Additionally, incumbency is an important aspect of our origination efforts, whereby Crescent has demonstrated the ability to remain as lead lender in strong performing credits even after change of sponsor ownership without committing to portable capital structures. From an underwriting perspective, we benefit directly from seeing how these companies fared through the pandemic, wage inflation and supply chain disruptions over our old period.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

From an execution perspective, this knowledge and familiarity with management teams allows us to move quickly and with conviction, and that is something that the sponsors with whom we partner with value greatly. On new opportunities, our private credit platform has maintained lead roles in the majority of our transactions and we continue to drive stringent documentation. Given our focus on the core and lower middle market, we believe we are able to drive better structural protections than deals in the more competitive upper middle market segment or BSL replacement segment. Now let's shift gears and discuss the investment portfolio. Please turn to Slide thirteen and fourteen.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

We ended the quarter with just over $1,600,000,000 of investments at fair value across a highly diversified portfolio of 187 companies with an average investment size of approximately 0.6% of the total portfolio.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Our top 10 largest borrowers represented 18% of the portfolio as we are believers in modulating credit risk through position size.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

We have consistently maintained an investment portfolio that consists primarily of first lien loans since inception, collectively representing 91% of the portfolio at fair value at quarter end. Additionally, we take comfort in the fact that our portfolio is focused on domestic, service oriented businesses that in our view carry lower direct policy risk from tariffs and other recently proposed and implemented government policies. Finally, our investments are almost entirely supported by well capitalized private equity sponsors, with 99% of our debt portfolio in sponsor backed companies as of quarter end. We have partnered with our sponsors to invest in well capitalized borrowers with significant equity capital beneath us. We note that the weighted average loan to value in the portfolio at time of underwrite is approximately 39%. Moving on to our dividend. We declared a third quarter twenty twenty five regular dividend of $0.42 per share. This dividend is payable on 10/15/2025 to stockholders of record as of September 30.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Additionally, the third and final previously announced $05 per share special dividends related to undistributed taxable income will be paid on September 15 to stockholders of record as of August 29. This marks our thirty eighth consecutive quarter of earning our regular dividend at CCAP, which we have accomplished while maintaining NAV per share within a tight band. Our positioning has and always will be for the long term. Overall, we are pleased with the strength of our portfolio and stable results this quarter. We believe they are representative of CCAP's longer term track record of delivering a stable NAV profile and an attractive total economic return.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

To frame the point a bit further, let's look at performance since CCAP's public listing in February 2020, a period that captures the totality of the COVID pandemic, the rise in interest rates beginning in mid-twenty twenty two and at least part of the recent tariff volatility. Based on publicly available data, the average public BDC saw its net asset value per share decline by 10.5% from the 2019 through the first quarter of this year. CCAP's NAV per share increased by 0.6% over the same timeframe and 0.3% through Q2. Over this period, we generated a total economic return calculated as change in net asset value plus dividends of 49%, well in excess of the public BDC average. I highlight this longer term track record as it often feels as if we operate in ninety day earnings vacuums where sentiment can swing wildly, sometimes warranted, sometimes not.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

We do not believe CCAP's current discount to NAV is warranted, which is why our Board has approved a $20,000,000 stock repurchase program. We believe that opportunistically repurchasing shares at certain levels is an attractive use of excess capital. As we seek to maintain a disciplined capital allocation approach at CCAP, we will balance our repurchase program with other factors such as our existing investment pipeline and leverage levels. With that, I will now turn the call over to Henry. Henry?

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thanks, Jason. Please turn to Slide 15 where we highlight our recent activity. Gross deployment in the second quarter totaled $58,000,000 as you can see on the left hand side of the page, of which 99% was in first lien investments. During the quarter, we closed three new platform investments totaling 22,000,000 Even as spreads have tightened, our focus remains on high quality companies with strong credit profiles. These new investments were loans to private equity backed companies with a weighted average spread of approximately four eighty basis points.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Each of these new investments were first lien loans consistent with our strategy of investing at the top of the capital structure to provide greater downside protection. The remaining $36,000,000 came from incremental investments in our existing portfolio companies. Dollars 58,000,000 in gross deployment compares to approximately $93,000,000 in aggregate exits, sales and repayments resulting in net realizations of approximately $35,000,000 for the second quarter. Given we are currently operating in our target leverage range, we do not expect to see meaningful increases in net deployment on a quarter to quarter basis. However, the Crescent private credit platform remains active with $1,300,000,000 of capital committed during the second quarter.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Turning back to the broader portfolio, please flip to Slide 16. You can see that the weighted average yield of our income producing securities at cost remained stable quarter over quarter at 10.4%. As of June 30, ninety seven percent of our debt investment is at fair value of floating rate with a weighted average floor of 78 basis points compared to our 54% floating rate liability structure based on debt drawn with no floors. Overall, our investment portfolio continues to perform well with year over year weighted average revenue and EBITDA growth. The weighted average interest coverage of the companies in our investment portfolio at quarter end improved to 2.1 times.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

As a reminder, this calculation is based on the latest annualized base rate each quarter. Please look to Slide 17, which shows the trends in internal performance ratings. Overall, we have seen stability in the fundamental performance of a portfolio resulting in consistency in our risk rating and a weighted average portfolio risk rating of 2.1. On the right hand side of the slide, you'll see that one and two rated investments representing names that are performing at or above our underwriting expectations continue to represent the lion's share or 86% of our portfolio at fair value. It is worth noting that as of quarter end, as a percentage of total investments at fair value, CCAP's watch list, which we define as three, four and five rated investments, was 14%, whereas our non accruals at fair value were 2.4%, a nearly 12% GAAP.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

This is in contrast to the analysis of our public peers where this gap is approximately 6%, we believe this reflects our philosophy and our culture of being forward looking in terms of maintaining our watch list. We do not, for example, wait until there is a default for moving something down the risk rating scale. We strive to be transparent about the health of our portfolio with the market, and one of the ways we do so is by taking a preemptive approach towards how we classify our watch list investments. With that, I will now turn it over to Gerhard.

[Gerhard Lombard, CFO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thanks Henry and hello everyone. Yesterday evening, we reported net investment income of $0.46 per share or $0.48 excluding the one time accelerated amortization that Jason noted compared to $0.45 per share in the prior quarter. The increase in net investment income was driven by an increase in the distribution from the Logan joint venture and a stable quarter over quarter portfolio yield of 10.4%. Net income per share of $0.41 for the second quarter compared to $0.11 in the prior quarter driven by a reduction in changes in net realized and unrealized losses on a quarter over quarter basis. Turning to the balance sheet.

[Gerhard Lombard, CFO at Crescent Capital BDC]

As of 06/30/2025, our investment portfolio at fair value totaled $1,600,000,000 Total net assets was $725,000,000 as of 06/30/2025. NAV per share was $19.55 a decrease of $07 per share from $19.62 at the end of the first quarter. As Jason noted, this quarter's change in NAV was largely attributable to the $05 special dividend paid in June as NII outpaced our regular dividend, offset by modest net unrealized and realized losses per share. Let's shift to our capitalization and liquidity. I'm on Slide 19.

[Gerhard Lombard, CFO at Crescent Capital BDC]

At the April, we rightsized our SPV asset facility from $500,000,000 to $400,000,000 and reduced the spread by 50 basis points from $2.45 to $1.95 This facility resizing provides us with sufficient capital to address any potential draws on our unfunded commitments, while minimizing interest expense related to excess unfunded capacity. Following the one time impact of the acceleration of the deferred financing costs, we expect to see the full benefit of the repricing in our future quarterly operating results. Our capital structure reflects our target size and leverage with our current equity base today. We have ensured that our borrowing capacity is consistent with our investment mandate. This quarter's activity brought our debt to equity ratio down modestly from 1.25x in the prior quarter to 1.23x, which is within our stated target leverage range of 1.1x to 1.3x.

[Gerhard Lombard, CFO at Crescent Capital BDC]

As you can see on the right side of the slide, approximately 74% of total committed debt now matures in 2028 or later. The weighted average stated interest rate on our total borrowings was 6.09% as of quarter end compared to 6.36% as of March 31. As Jason noted, for the 2025, our Board has declared our regular dividend of $0.42 per share. Additionally, the third and final previously announced $05 per share special cash dividend is payable in September. Our existing variable supplemental dividend framework remains in effect as well.

[Gerhard Lombard, CFO at Crescent Capital BDC]

CCAP will not pay a Q3 supplemental dividend as the measurement test cap exceeded 50% of this quarter's excess available earnings. And with that, I'd like to turn it back to Jason for closing remarks.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thanks, Gerhard. So to sum up, CCAP posted stable results in a quarter that, from a macro perspective, was anything but stable. Historically, in periods of market volatility, Crescent's focus on disciplined credit underwriting, capital preservation, strong free cash flow generation and robust debt service coverage has enabled us to stay on the right side of performance and returns across managers. Earlier, I highlighted CCAP's performance since listing in 2020. We believe Crescent and CCAP will continue to be on the right side of this performance dispersion spectrum over the long term and we look forward to delivering on that in the quarters to come.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

As always, we thank you for joining our call today and look forward to connecting with many of you soon. And with that operator, we can open the line for questions.

[Operator]

Your first question comes from the line of Robert Dodd with Raymond James. Your line is open.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Hi, guys. Congratulations on essentially the NAV stability this quarter. But just want to focus on credit quality a little bit again. As Henry said, right, so the watch list is up 14%, but I believe it was like 12% or 13% last quarter. So it does seem like it's ticked up just a tiny bit.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

And also on the internally rated fours and fives, which are the the lowest categories, that ticked up this quarter as well. So in in that, with the fours and fives, three percent of the portfolio at fair value, any assets in that category that are not already on non accrual? And if there are, you know, what's what's what's the risk there of incremental credit deterioration in the portfolio?

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. Robert, thanks for the question. This is Henry. I can I can take a a first stab at the responses? With respect to the watch list, more generally, what I would say is that our view, and we alluded to this in prepared remarks, is that we want to be preemptive with how we designate investments on the watch list.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

So we've always relied on the fundamental operating performance and the near term outlook to guide us to whether or not replacing investment on watch list, and it's not going to be purely driven by if there's a credit event pending. So from that perspective, we just wanna make sure that we're both being forward looking and also being transparent around, what the nearest term outlook looks like for our portfolio companies. With respect to the fours and fives, what I would say there is that, you know, those are all investments that are certainly most challenged with respect to potential near term outlook in terms of recovery. However, what I will also say there is that, what we have or what we do wanna make sure that we factor in, and this is both in terms of the risk rating as well in terms of the mark is, first, where we think the recovery is gonna look like on a near term basis just given the existing outlook of the company today. And secondly, you know, even if there is a longer path to recovery, we wanna make sure that we're not being, you know, too shortsighted around near term challenges that companies are facing.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

So what I would say is, if you're in that category, it's certainly kind of the largest variance in terms of potential outcomes with respect to, ultimate recovery here. But what I will say is that, you know, when I look back at our track record, at our loss rate, and our ability to create recoveries even in situations that are kind of at a higher risk, I'd say that we we certainly have the the capabilities and the track records to back that. And what I would also say there is that it's it's really kind of more of a of a earlier forward look as opposed to, demonstrating a leg down and like further portfolio weakness.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Got it. Robert, Let

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

me sorry, Robert. It's Jason. I just want to add two points. On the first point on the watch list, I think it's also important to point out that as a lower and core middle market investor three out of four companies in the portfolio have financial covenants. And so that might be high relative to some of our peers who focus in the upper end of the market.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

And the nice thing about having covenants is the it really enables frequency of dialogue and interaction with the management teams and sponsorship. And so I think from an insight standpoint and a dialogue standpoint, we may be in closer contact with folks given the covenants that we have in place, which might give us more real time visibility and outlook. The other point that I just wanted to make is that while our nonaccrual rate I think is, let's say, generally in line with the broader industry, it is certainly not something we're pleased with. It's not representative of how we think of our portfolio or our underwriting process or frankly consistent with our historical metrics and that's something that we are looking forward to seeing some progress on in terms of bringing that down.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Got it. I appreciate all that color. Kind of sort of related. As you said, right, the the the the cover with all the the the tariffs, etcetera, and and those the outlook on tariffs seems to change day by day. Have you seen anything and to your point, you're in contact with a lot of these portfolio companies more more frequently than than the upper market might be.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Have you seen any change in in thoughts from portfolio companies about how how manageable the tariff exposure is? Obviously, you know, keeps changing, so they might have to keep changing plans. But any thoughts on on how the portfolio companies think they'll be able to manage this volatile period?

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. I'd say, I'd off by commenting on, you know, when we were sharing with the market our initial review of the direct impact to our portfolio as tariffs, it was a relative minority in our book. It was kind of low single digits where we viewed our portfolio as having direct impact. And this was kind of the highest level of kind of tariffs post liberation day that we were doing our assessment around. But what we've seen since is, you know, we've done a refresh of that and reviewed and and and really, first, to check how close we were in terms of the impact and our assessment around potential tariff impact, and secondly, to determine, how the companies, to your question, how the companies are able to respond.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

I'd say on the first conclusion from that refreshment analysis, I'd say our analysis still holds. We haven't seen that direct tariff impact population expand in any meaningful way, and nor contract. You know, the companies that we thought were gonna be impacted directly by tariffs are certainly ones that are still navigating that environment. On the latter point, there's a I I say there's a there's a few ways that we've seen companies, address the upcoming changes, in tariffs. The first is, you know, we've always looked to invest in companies that have high pricing power, and the ability to demonstrate the ability to pass through prices.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

We had a good lens into that in the 2023, 2024 time frame when we saw a pretty marked increase in wage inflation. And given that we invest primarily in services businesses, that's going to typically be the largest component of the cost structure for the vast majority of our borrowers. And being able to see that dynamic play out on the price side with respect to material input costs as well in the context of tariffs, that's certainly the primary lever that we've seen management teams employ in this current environment. On the second side, which is for those that are sourcing directly from, I'd say, kind of higher up the list tariff impacted geographies, what we've seen management teams do is take a proactive response to looking at alternative sourcing mechanisms. And there's a lot of work that companies that we invest in, that do have, some sort of supply chain procurement, abroad coming into The US.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

We saw that that's that's some that's an approach and diligence that was done, after the first wave of tariffs during the first, Trump presidency, and we're seeing that kind of repositioning happen real time now as well. I think, in terms of seeing it play out of the numbers, it's probably going to be back half of this year when we really start to see the benefits of those actions as well as the impact of the tariffs actually show up in the borrower financials. But I'd say, kind of, summarize here, the direct tariff impact in our portfolio is just a small percentage to begin with. And secondly, you know, given the dialogue, the the access that we have to management, we've been able to see them kind of address this upfront, both on the price side as well as on the the supply chain side.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Got it. Thank you for that color. One more question if I can unrelated to all those issues. So you're operating it like basically right back in the middle of your target leverage range. So I think you said you don't expect a lot of net portfolio growth going forward.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

But would you like, you know, if market activity does pick up and obviously the platform as a whole is still, you know, very active, which obviously in principle if if you get some repayments at the BDC, you know, it gives you relatively quick opportunity to redeploy the capital. But is there anything you'd like to modify in the mix, you know, within that that, you know, while maintaining kind of, you know, midpoint of the leverage range maybe? Would you like to to rotate out of any sectors and into different ones or shrink average position sizes or things like that, all of which can go on while the portfolio isn't net growing. So any thoughts on on any repositioning, relatively speaking, that you'd you'd like to do while you're at at kind of target leverage?

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. It's a great question.

[Dan McMahon, SVP & Head - IR at Crescent Capital BDC]

Go go ahead, Henry.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

I'll follow-up.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. That's that's a great question. I'd say, on a couple points, the first is, in terms of rotation from an industry perspective, I'd say we feel good about where we are in terms of our industry focus. You know, we're we're very focused on investing into high free cash flow generating noncyclical industries with defensible revenue streams. And, you know, we've started that positioning from the very beginning of CCAP and continue to maintain that.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

So I wouldn't say that there's specifically any industry concentrations that we're looking to reduce in the near term or on the other side of that augment as well. Our focus is always going to be on those industries. I'd say the same for the average position size as well. We have 187 obligors in our portfolio. Average position size is 60 basis points.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

So we really, from the beginning, have also really sought to maintain a diversified book. And given we we have the the added luxury, if if you'll call it that, of being attached to a platform that, you know, even though the CCAP on a net basis during the quarter, the portfolio shrink, we've seen $1,300,000,000 of new deployment come through the platform in just the quarter alone. So we're able to pick our spots in terms of what is accretive to us just from the from a pure yield perspective as well as where we want to be in terms of industry without having to sacrifice diversification at all. So I'd say on that piece, we're in a good position. Where we are focused on rotating is, and we've mentioned this in prior commentary, is the acquired assets.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

We are a little over halfway through the rotation of the acquired First Eagle assets, we're almost entirely through the rotation of the Alcentra assets. But that's really, I'd say, where the heaviest focus is in terms of, our rotation efforts, because we have the ability to reallocate and redeploy those investments into Crescent directly originated opportunities. It's just a matter of rotating, the acquired assets at, at levels that we find attractive.

[Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial]

Got it. Thank you.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Mickey Schleien with Clear Street. Jason,

[Mickey Schleien, MD - Equity Research at Clear Street]

just one question from me today. I think investors and analysts really appreciate your transparency about the breakdown of your portfolio by the type of security. And I see that less than 2% is in unitranche last out investments. As you know, that structure can help boost portfolio yield without giving up much control over an investment. So how are you evaluating the opportunity to increase that to help offset potential declines in SOFR?

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Mickey. Thank you for the question. It's Jason. That segment of the portfolio has always been relatively small for us. And I'd call out a couple of things.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

First off, I think we've always been in the unitranche segment of the market. In fact, Crescent's Heritage is really also as a junior debt lender. So we've historically been quite comfortable lending deeper into a capital stack of middle market companies. The last out opportunity is not so voluminous, I would say, these days as direct lending managers have more capital to put to work. And that's certainly the case for Crescent too.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

I would say we are opportunistic in those pursuits. Generally, only getting comfortable if it's a very small amount of first out leverage ahead of us where we feel quite comfortable that we could take control of that first out if needed. But it's often driven by the portfolio company having a banking relationship and wanting to bring a relationship into a first out piece of a capital structure. But otherwise, it's I would just say it's not all that frequent of an opportunity for us today.

[Mickey Schleien, MD - Equity Research at Clear Street]

I understand. Thank you for taking my question.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Nolan with Ladenburg Thalmann. Your line is open.

[Christopher Nolan, SVP - Equity Research at Ladenburg Thalmann & Co. Inc]

Hi. Just following up on Robert's question from a different angle. Are you given, the decline in energy prices, and your companies, do you see your companies having increased operating leverage where energy inputs go down, your profit margins go up and so forth?

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Chris. This is Henry. I I'd say that fuel input costs are are really not a large component of the cost of it sold for the vast majority of our borrowers. You know, it's it's something that we really seek to avoid in underwriting where there's a lot of exposure to, potential material cost inputs, both on the both both as a as a reduction in margins as well as a way to potentially augment margins.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

So, I I wouldn't say that that would be a necessarily a material driver of operating leverage within our portfolio as a whole. Generally, I would say what you'll see given our service orientation in our portfolio is that the largest component of cost of goods sold in the vast majority of our portfolio companies' cost structures is going to be human capital as opposed to pure kind of fuel input costs. However, I would certainly expect to see some benefit. I just don't expect it to be a material driver of portfolio performance, if that makes sense.

[Christopher Nolan, SVP - Equity Research at Ladenburg Thalmann & Co. Inc]

Yep. And then the follow-up question. I see that the balance of second lien loans has gone down year to date. I know it's a small part of the portfolio, but is this something which you sort of up pop into more cyclically when the economy starts going up and the price of second liens are attractive, then we should start seeing those increase incrementally?

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah. I I wouldn't

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Go ahead, Henry.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

Yeah.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

I I wouldn't say that this is the second lien portfolio mix is is one that's ever gonna be a large component of our of our portfolio. We've, from the beginning, outlined that the investment mandate of CCAP is really going to be focused on top of capital structure first lien investments. I would say that currently in this market, the relative spread premium that we're seeing in second liens, relative to the first lien is is is, I think, quite a bit. So it's difficult from just a pure ReLVal perspective to have conviction around coming in behind five, six, sometimes seven turns of first lien leverage, without getting the appropriate risk premia. If that changes, then it's certainly something that we'll look at, but we'll always be selectively deploying the second lien.

[Henry Chung, President at Crescent Capital BDC]

I don't I would never expect it to be a large component of the portfolio given our focus here is to continue to weight our portfolio towards first lien.

[Christopher Nolan, SVP - Equity Research at Ladenburg Thalmann & Co. Inc]

Okay. Thank you.

[Operator]

I will turn the call back over to Jason Bro for closing remarks.

[Jason Breaux, CEO at Crescent Capital BDC]

Thank you very much, Kate. Thank you all for your time and attention here today. We appreciate having this conversation with you and look forward to speaking with you again soon.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

Participants

Executives

• Dan McMahon, SVP & Head - IR
• Jason Breaux, CEO
• Gerhard Lombard, CFO
• Henry Chung, President

Analysts

• Robert Dodd, Director - Finance at Raymond James Financial
• Mickey Schleien, MD - Equity Research at Clear Street
• Christopher Nolan, SVP - Equity Research at Ladenburg Thalmann & Co. Inc