NASDAQ:NMIH NMI Q2 2023 Earnings Report $38.24 +0.27 (+0.71%) Closing price 05/7/2025 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$38.24 +0.00 (+0.01%) As of 05/7/2025 05:52 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast NMI EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.95Consensus EPS $0.87Beat/MissBeat by +$0.08One Year Ago EPS$0.86NMI Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$142.70 millionExpected Revenue$123.95 millionBeat/MissBeat by +$18.75 millionYoY Revenue Growth+7.90%NMI Announcement DetailsQuarterQ2 2023Date8/1/2023TimeAfter Market ClosesConference Call DateTuesday, August 1, 2023Conference Call Time5:00PM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by NMI Q2 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrAugust 1, 2023 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 10 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:01Good afternoon, and welcome to the NMI Holdings Inc. 2nd Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note this event is being recorded. Operator00:00:29I would now like to turn the conference over to John Swenson of Management. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:36Thank you, Anthony. Good afternoon, and welcome to the 2023 second quarter conference call for National Mi. I'm John Swenson, Vice President of Investor Relations and Treasury. Joining us on the call today are Brad Shuster, Executive Chairman Adam Pollitzer, President and Chief Executive Officer Ravi Maleila, Chief Financial Officer and Nick Guilmuto, our Controller. Financial results for the quarter were released after the close today. Speaker 100:01:04The press release may be accessed on NMI's website located at nationalmy.com under the Investors tab. During the course of this call, we may make comments about our expectations for the future. Actual results could differ materially from those contained in these forward looking statements. Additional information about the factors that could cause actual results or Trends to differ materially from those discussed on the call can be found on our website or through our regulatory filings with the SEC. If and to the extent the company makes forward looking statements, we do not undertake any obligation to update those statements in the future in light of subsequent developments. Speaker 100:01:44Further, no one should rely on the fact that the guidance of such statements is current at any time other than the time of this call. Also note that on this call, we may refer to certain non GAAP measures. In today's press release and on our website, we have provided a Reconciliation of these measures to the most comparable measures under GAAP. Now, I'll turn the call over to Brett. Speaker 200:02:06Thank you, John, and good afternoon, everyone. As we talk today, I'm greatly encouraged both by the resiliency of the broader Macro environment and housing market and by the significant and consistent success we're achieving across our business. In the Q2, National Mi again delivered standout operating performance, Continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results. Our lenders and their borrowers Continued to turn to us for critical down payment support. And in the second quarter, we generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW volume, ending the period with a record $191,300,000,000 of high In Washington, our conversations remain active and constructive. Speaker 200:03:13Policymakers, regulators, the FHFA and the GSEs We remain highly focused on promoting broader access and affordability to the housing market for all borrowers, And we believe there is broad recognition of the unique and valuable role that the private mortgage insurance industry plays in this regard. At National Mi, we recognize the need to provide borrowers with a fair and equitable opportunity to access the housing market, establish a community identity and build long term wealth through homeownership. We are actively engaged and committed to equally supporting borrowers from all communities And are proud to have helped over 1,600,000 borrowers to date realize their homeownership goals. Overall, we had a terrific second quarter and are well positioned to continue to lead with impact And drive value for our people, our customers and their borrowers and our shareholders going forward. With that, let me turn it over to Adam. Speaker 300:04:28Thank you, Brad, and good afternoon, everyone. National Mi continued to outperform in the 2nd quarter, Delivering significant new business production, strong growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results, We generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW volume and ended the period with a record $191,300,000,000 of high quality, High performing insurance in force. Total revenue in the 2nd quarter was a record $142,700,000 We delivered record GAAP net income of $80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share and an 18.6% return on equity. Overall, we had an exceptionally strong quarter and are confident as we look ahead. The macro environment and housing market in particular have proven to be resilient in the face of increased interest rates. Speaker 300:05:24We see an attractive and sustained new business opportunity With our lender customers and their borrowers continuing to rely on us in size for critical down payment support, We have an exceptionally high quality insured portfolio and our credit performance continues to stand ahead. Our persistency remains well above historical trend And when paired with our strong NIW volume has helped to drive continued growth and embedded value gains in our insured book. Notwithstanding these strong positives, however, macro risks do remain and we've maintained a proactive stance With respect to our pricing, risk selection and reinsurance decisioning, it continues to be the prudent and appropriate course, And we are encouraged by the continued discipline that we see across the broader private MI market. Underwriting standards remain rigorous And the pricing environment remains balanced and constructive. Overall, we had a terrific quarter, delivering strong operating performance, continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results. Speaker 300:06:54I also want to note how proud I am That for the 8th consecutive year, National Mi has been recognized as a Great Place to Work. Great Place to Work is a global authority On workplace culture, employee experience and leadership and partners with Fortune Magazine to produce the annual Fortune 100 Best We believe that the quality of our team and the culture that we've established are key competitive advantages It is gratifying to again be recognized for these strengths. Looking ahead, we are well positioned to continue to serve our customers and their borrowers, Invest in our employees and their success and deliver through the cycle growth, returns and value for our shareholders. With that, I'll turn it over to Ravi. Thank you, Adam. Speaker 300:07:45We delivered record financial results in the 2nd quarter With significant new business production, strong growth in our high quality insured portfolio, record top line performance, Favorable credit experience, continued expense efficiency and record bottom line profitability. Total revenue in the Q2 was a record $142,700,000 GAAP net income was a record 80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share and our return on equity was 18.6%. We generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW and our primary insurance in force grew to $191,300,000,000 up 2.5% from the end of the Q1 and 13.4% compared to the Q2 of 2022. 12 month persistency in our primary portfolio improved again, reaching 86% compared to 85.1% in the 1st quarter. Persistency continues to serve as an important driver of the growth and embedded value of our insured portfolio. Speaker 300:09:00Net premiums earned in the 2nd quarter were a record $126,000,000 compared to $121,800,000 in the 1st quarter. We earned $1,100,000 from the cancellation of single premium policies in the 2nd quarter compared to $1,400,000 in the 1st quarter. Net yield for the quarter was 26.7 basis points, up from 26.3 basis points in the Q1. Core yield, which excludes the cost of our reinsurance coverage and the contribution from cancellation earnings was 33.8 basis points, up from 33.7 basis points in the Q1. Investment income was $16,500,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to $14,900,000 in the Q1. Speaker 300:09:52Underwriting and operating expenses were $27,500,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to $25,800,000 in the Q1. Our expense ratio was 21.8% compared to 21.2% in the Q1. We had 4,349 defaults in our primary portfolio at June 30 compared to 4,475 at March 31st. And our default rate declined to 71 basis points at quarter end. The strong position and performance of our existing borrowers and continued cure activity within our previous default population. Speaker 300:10:43Interest expense in the quarter was $8,000,000 Net income was a record $80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share compared to $0.88 per diluted share in the Q1 and $0.86 per diluted share in the Q2 of 2022. Total cash and investments were $2,300,000,000 at quarter end, including $139,000,000 of cash and investments at the holding company. Shareholders' equity as of June 30 was $1,700,000,000 and book value per share was $21.25 Book value per share excluding the impact of net unrealized gains and losses in the investment portfolio was 23.53 Up 4.3% compared to the 4th quarter and 18.2% compared to the Q2 of last year. In the Q2, we repurchased $26,000,000 of common stock, retiring slightly more than 1,000,000 shares at an average price Speaker 400:11:52of $24.83 Speaker 300:11:53To date, we have repurchased a total of $97,000,000 of stock under the original $125,000,000 authorization, retiring 4,600,000 shares at an average price of $20.99 Today's new $200,000,000 authorization provides us with significant incremental REIT purchase capacity and will run through December 31, 2025. In July, we entered into a new excess of loss reinsurance agreement that will provide forward flow risk protection for policies originated in the 3rd 4th quarters of this year. The new deal further extends our comprehensive credit risk transfer program and carries an estimated 6 point 2 5% weighted average lifetime pretax cost. Our continued ability to compress the cycle time between transactions, Execute on favorable terms and secure forward flow coverage for our future production is particularly valuable As it serves to minimize our warehouse exposure and limit the credit risk retained in our high quality insured portfolio. At quarter end, we reported total available assets under PMIERs of $2,500,000,000 and risk based required assets of $1,300,000,000 Excess available assets were $1,200,000,000 Overall, we delivered standout financial results during the 2nd quarter With continued growth in our high quality insured portfolio and record top line performance, favorable credit experience and continued expense Driving record bottom line profitability and strong returns. Speaker 300:13:37With that, let me turn it back to Adam. Thank you, Ravi. We had a terrific quarter, once again delivering significant new business production, continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial performance. Looking forward, we're confident. The macro environment and housing market have proven to be resilient in the face of increased interest rates and we have a strong customer franchise, A talented team driving us forward every day, an exceptionally high quality book covered by a comprehensive set of risk transfer solutions and a robust balance sheet supported by the significant earnings power of our platform. Speaker 300:14:14Taken together, we're well positioned to continue to serve our customers And their borrowers, invest in our employees and their success, drive growth in our high quality insured portfolio and deliver strong performance for our shareholders. Thank you for joining us today. I'll now ask the operator to come back on so we can take your questions. Operator00:14:35We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question will come from Doug Harter with Credit Suisse. You may now go ahead. Speaker 500:15:04Thanks. Can you talk a little bit about the current environment for premium yields And your outlook, it seems like it stabilized in the quarter. Is that A trend we can expect going forward and kind of where our new yields being written relative to the in force book? Speaker 300:15:27Sure. I'll take that. This is Ravi. Net yield in the quarter was 26.7 basis points versus 26.3 basis points in Q1 and both core and net were slightly up quarter over quarter. And I I'd say we benefited from the increase in persistency, but primarily it came from the cumulative gains We incurred from new business pricing over the last year plus and certainly we benefit a little bit from the modest improvement In quota share costs and that comes through from higher profit commission from ceded claims expense improvement that we saw in the quarter. Speaker 300:16:08But what we talked about in the past is just to focus on core yield, which really excludes reinsurance and cancellation earnings. And we believe that will remain relatively stable given that we have strong persistency and the rate actions that we've taken so far have been positive. You have to really take into account the fact that that's balanced by the high quality production, which tends to come on with a different rate profile. Yes. And then Doug, in terms of how premium rate on new business written in Q2 stacks up against that, we don't provide specifics about our premium rate, But we do continue to see the benefit of those rate increases that Ravi mentioned. Speaker 300:16:49We've really worked hard to achieve them over the past year. And in the business that we wrote this quarter, the $11,500,000,000 of high quality, high return volume It's most importantly supportive of our strong mid teen return objectives. Speaker 400:17:06Great. Thank you. Operator00:17:11Our next question will come from Arren Cyganovich with Citi. You may now go ahead. Speaker 600:17:18Thanks. This environment seems to be almost like a Goldilocks for private mortgage insurance, Home price appreciation, low claims experience, still being able to have a decent amount of new origination, high What are you worried about? What would be something that you would be concerned about for this environment to change? Speaker 300:17:46Yes. Look, I think we're Aaron, it's a good question. We're encouraged and I'd say incrementally more optimistic when we look At recent data and headlines, certainly, I think we can all see that macro risks have been receding. And it's been receding really since our last call In May, right, we've had a resolution of the debt ceiling deadline. We've had stronger than expected growth. Speaker 300:18:08Recent inflation data has shown signs of easing. We've seen stabilization of the regional banking sector through this quarter's earnings announcements. And alongside that, we've got increasing consumer confidence. And so there's reason to be optimistic, In particular, because of how resilient the housing market and house prices have been. At the same time, we mentioned in our prepared remarks that risks remain. Speaker 300:18:32We didn't elaborate, but really there are risks that remain broadly to the economy. It's not A certainty that the Fed is going to be able to engineer a soft landing. And so when we look at it, right, the Fed just tightened again and still has a hawkish stance from our vantage The commercial real estate market is in focus. We've got the pending restart of student loan payments, as something that may impact household finances. And regional banks are now facing increased capital requirements that over time, may curtail lending activity. Speaker 300:19:03And so when we look at it, what we're concerned about is really what happens around us, those items that we can't control. We can control how conservatively and appropriately we're managing Our business, how we're managing our capital position, our risk mix, our pricing decisions, but what happens around us is of consequence. And so when we look at those items in balance, We do still see the potential for volatility on the horizon from a macroeconomic standpoint and that's what we're concerned about. Speaker 600:19:31That's helpful. Thank you. And then just secondarily, the persistency rate inched up a bit higher. What do you think that in this kind of rate environment would be like the maximum? Is it getting kind of close to wherever that maximum would be on a persistency level? Speaker 300:19:47Aaron, it's a good question. I think I mentioned during the call that we reached 86% in Q2 up from 85 1% in Q1. And look, we expect it to remain well above historical trend through year end. And we might see some modest improvement going forward, but I think the way to think about it is that it's probably going to be naturally a little bit more muted over time. We've just seen it increase just so much and there just is as we go through our portfolio a minimum level of turnover that's going to occur And we're going to start to see some of our portfolio, our most recent vintages Hitting points of time and cancellation. Speaker 300:20:33And as a result, we're probably going to see some modest improvement going forward, but it's going to be muted over the course of the year. But it's Still well above historical trends and we're benefiting significantly from the high persistency. Speaker 600:20:47Thank Speaker 400:20:49you. Operator00:20:52Our next question will come from Rick Shane with JPMorgan. You may now go ahead. Speaker 700:20:58Thanks for taking my questions this afternoon, everybody. Hey, I'd like to talk a little bit about In the unusual environment that we're in, the puts and takes for MI penetration in the context of overall mortgage volume, On one hand, we're hearing that cash buyers have huge advantages in this market, but that's Obviously not normally, the they would not normally be competition for Your customers, I'm wondering if you're seeing any substitution in that market. And at the same time, On the other hand, robust pricing for starter homes presumably is driving increased demand. I'm kind of curious how you balance that. Speaker 300:21:50Yes. Rick, it's a great set of questions and I may actually broaden it to just talk generally about where we see origination activity developing and the that we have both in the near term and over the longer term to support borrowers and help them gain access to their homes. When we spoke last May, we shared our expectation that we would see a total purchase origination market of roughly $1,300,000,000,000 for the year. And I think the starting point, right, to preface your question is, we're actually still seeing notwithstanding the fact that there are headlines around affordability that rates remain elevated. We're seeing a really constructive purchase environment. Speaker 300:22:27And even though it sits behind the record levels that we saw what I'll call the pandemic years, By historical standards, it's a very large purchase market. And within that, we're seeing a tremendous opportunity To write new business, we've guided through the course of this year that we expect to see a total private MI market of Give or take $300,000,000,000 and that remains the case. The first half of the year has come in generally in line With our expectations and our outlook remains the same today. And so look, there are buyers out there Who will transact, they need Mi support and over the long term, not just through 2023, but over the long term, there are a number Fundamental drivers of both purchase volume as well as Mi demand that we see sustaining Our market opportunity. And so we haven't seen a shift because of maybe the rise and increasing advantage that cash buyers have or penetration rates otherwise. Speaker 300:23:35It's a very large market that's coming in line with our expectations And it gives us increased confidence as we think about the long term opportunity. Speaker 700:23:45Got it. Okay, very helpful. And you for reframing my question. I think that's a better way to explain it. Thank you. Operator00:23:56Our next question will come from Mark Hughes with Truist. You may now go ahead. Speaker 300:24:03Yes. Thank you. Speaker 800:24:04Could you say again, what was the share buyback dollar amount in the Q2 and then any insight on your pacing on the buybacks as you think about the balance of the year and the next year? Speaker 300:24:18Sure. Mark, it's Ravi. In Q2, we did about $26,000,000 in share repurchases, Slightly over 1,000,000 of shares. Certainly, we're pleased with the execution. With today's announcement, we have a little bit left in the $125,000,000 share repurchase program. Speaker 300:24:42And so when you combine that with the $200,000,000 you get to $228,000,000 capacity and we have through the end of 2025 to execute. As you know, we're not on a set schedule. It really depends on a number of factors, including market dynamics, How we feel about things in the market, in particular, our stock price relative to the relative value in the shares. And so we plan to execute opportunistically, and we think about things going forward as the market progresses, we adjust accordingly. Yes. Speaker 300:25:19Mark, I think there was a as a rough guide, we've got $228,000,000 of capacity to be deployed over the next 10 quarters. And you could think about things on a roughly ratable basis through the end of the authorization period in December of 2025 although I think Ravi's caveat that it's not going to be firmly regimented is absolutely the case. Speaker 800:25:41Right. So maybe similar to Q2. And then on the expense ratio, refreshment, were there any capital markets expenses in that number? And then Up a Speaker 300:25:54little bit sequentially. Speaker 800:25:57Anything unusual in there? And how do you think it should trend going forward? Speaker 300:26:03Mark, this is Ravi. Just to answer that there are 2 parts to your question there. From the capital markets side, The XOLs typically are structured in a way where we don't pay specific fees that are that we outlined like the way we do with ILNs. It's all rolled into the actual weighted average lifetime pretax cost that we quoted. And so that's separate. Speaker 300:26:26And maybe just to take the second part of your question Just on sort of quarter over quarter changes. We're always focused on managing the business with discipline and efficiency. And we're pleased with the 21.8 percent expense ratio in Q2. We always try to focus on the ratio and not the dollars. We're really operating with the same footprint. Speaker 300:26:48We have the smallest headcount by far in the industry. And if you want to think about this quarter in particular, Just to give some color for that, in March, we award salary increases. Those could include Merit, cost of living adjustments, promotions and grant equity awards. And the Q2 increases in comp This Q1 were one of the components that drove the quarter over quarter change. And then another portion of that is just ordinary course projects. Speaker 300:27:19The pickup we We saw from Q1 to Q2 were just sort of ordinary course things that we do on a regular basis. We also saw NIW Pickup and NIW volume increased 31% quarter over quarter and that increases our variable costs and that also contributed To our quarter to quarter increases. So take all of that together, that's what drove the increase. We've said this before in the past About our OpEx, we don't provide guidance, but we do expect OpEx from a dollars perspective to grow because we're always in people, in systems, in risk management strategies and we grow. And When you put all those together, you could see some uptick in Q4 and Q3 in terms of dollars of expenses. Speaker 300:28:13Appreciate that detail. Thank you. Operator00:28:19Next question will come from Bose George with KBW. You may now go ahead. Speaker 400:28:25Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Just wanted to go back to the discussion on macro, especially the improved expectations for home prices, I guess, over the course of this year. How is that sort of running through your thoughts on loss severities? Speaker 300:28:43Look, it's a I'd say we're certainly encouraged by the broad resiliency That we've seen in the macro environment in the housing market. For reserving purposes though, we've always aimed to take what we would say is an appropriate, but also appropriately conservative view. And so in practice, this means that we generally anchor more to downside scenarios when setting our position and that remained the case in Q2. We did in fact though factor for the resiliency that we've observed in the macro environment and housing market year to date, but we balanced that By the need to still maintain a conservative stance and reflect some of those risks that I talked about that we still see on the horizon. And so at June 30, What that meant is that we moderated our expectations for economic strain and house price declines going forward in our reserving analysis, we didn't fully remove what I would call a stress bias from our work. Speaker 400:29:40Okay. That makes sense. Thanks. And then just switching to the ILN market, It looks like one of your peers is in the market with the deal. Is that market starting to look better in terms of potentially reentering for you guys? Speaker 300:29:56What I would say is that it's certainly, we're encouraged by seeing the ILN market rebound And certainly having one of our folks in the industry in the market, the first in September, that's very exciting for us. Certainly, we feel that it's nice to see the market healing a little bit. When we think about the state of the reinsurance markets And we're happy to do the most recent XOL. We think capacity has been available broadly in the market. It's been constructive on constructive terms. Speaker 300:30:32In particular, our XOL, we had new reinsurers come into this latest XOL. And Pricing and risk appetite has been wider than points in the past and not every reinsurer is sort of back in the market, but We're happy to execute the deal. It's a competitive deal on attractive terms and certainly reflects an efficient form of Premier's Capital. Yes. Bose, these are all favorable developments, right. Speaker 300:30:57Our ability to continue executing on favorable terms, in size and with speed In the traditional reinsurance markets and we've noted the deal as well that you touched on and that's a constructive one to see a market that We have value that we've accessed meaningfully in the past, rebound constructively. It gives us more optionality And gives us additional outlets, which is valuable as we go forward. Speaker 400:31:22Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Operator00:31:28Next question will come from Geoffrey Dunn with Dowling. You may now go ahead. Speaker 500:31:34Thanks. Good afternoon. First question, was there an OpCo dividend up in the quarter? Speaker 300:31:40Yes, there was. We distributed $98,000,000 of Ordinary course dividends from NMIC, the lead operating subsidiary up to the holding company during the quarter. Speaker 500:31:51Okay. And then with respect to the assumptions in your loss provisioning, I think you were taking a very conservative stance on home prices. What are you now thinking as you look forward in your assumptions? Speaker 300:32:04Yes. So Jeff, we've never specifically outlined the underlying assumption, But suffice it to say, while we have moderated our expectations for what STREAM might look like, we have still embedded our Maintained our stress bias in the analysis. Speaker 500:32:22Okay. And last question, I don't know the details on this, but Enac just announced formation of a Bermuda subsidiary to help the CRT business. Is that something that management and the Board have ever discussed as a strategy for National or something that you think Could be kind of within a 3 year strategic plan for National? Speaker 300:32:43We don't have anything immediately on the horizon. We'll be curious to learn more about the announced announcement. It is a path that some others in our sector have pursued. Right now, we find the best value of deploying our capital To be in support of our primary business, we continue to grow our customer franchise, we continue to grow the opportunity that we're able To support and that remains our focus for now. Speaker 500:33:07Okay. Thank you. Operator00:33:12Our next question will come from Eric Hagen with BTIG. You may now go ahead. Speaker 900:33:19Hey, thanks. How are we doing? First question here, I mean, how do you feel like homeowners are keeping up with inflation at this point, especially the borrowers with high DCI to begin with, I realize the macro data suggests one thing, but is there anything that maybe you're adjusting for At the portfolio level? And how do you maybe adjust for the risk that inflation stays higher for longer, if you will? Speaker 300:33:42Yes. Eric, it's a good question. Look, I think first and foremost, these are among other items, ones that we account for From the standpoint of both pricing as well as actively managing the flow of risk and the mix of that risk coming into our portfolio, One of the risk markers that we consider, both in on a standalone basis, but also How it interacts with other risk markers is a borrower's debt to income ratio, which is essentially a household coverage metric. And we price for higher DTI borrowers in expectation that we'll see higher claims activity For those borrowers because their household finances are a bit more stretched. And we also actively manage the concentration of risk coming through. Speaker 300:34:28And so like all other risk markers, like all other risk factors that are out there, we manage for it in a few ways. We try to price for it the risks that we're comfortable taking, we define what our risk appetite is and try to manage our mix such that we don't exceed that. And then we also pursue reinsurance consistently to make sure we don't have an Aggregation in the portfolio. Speaker 900:34:51Yes, that's helpful. What would you maybe identify at this point as a few of the stronger catalysts for first time homebuyers at this point? Like I think you guys mentioned the expiration of student loan forbearance. You thinking that could have a bigger impact on the existing book or the forward opportunity as some borrowers might not be able to qualify or just how you guys thinking about that? Thanks. Speaker 300:35:14Yes. Look, I'd say, it's obviously pretty new. What I'd say broadly is we're watching it right now, Particularly because we've got an election cycle coming up. I think the Biden administration has a clear vested interest ensuring a smooth transition for borrowers and is taking steps to ensure that that transition is seamless. To that end, we've seen several important announcements both from the administration as well as from the Department of Education In the month or so since the Supreme Court ruling came out, striking down the original student debt relief Program. Speaker 300:35:54And so we'll see. It is possible that the upcoming resumption of payments will have an impact On certain borrowers in our portfolio who perhaps budgeted expecting more permanent relief. From an overall credit standpoint though, we don't expect At this point that the restart of student loan payments will have a material impact on the performance of our portfolio. As for the potential impact on new business activity, I'd love to give you a specific answer, but admittedly it's difficult to tell. On the one hand, you could see an even greater need for Private MI support before with borrowers who now have to make additional monthly payments towards their student debt, Not able to save as much for a down payment as previously hoped. Speaker 300:36:38But you could also see some pressure the other way with borrowers who were already stretched by higher rates And house prices now pushed to either look at less expensive homes and it's the loan size that drives NIW or perhaps being moved out of the buyer market entirely. So it's one we really need to monitor at this point before we know which way it will come out. Overall though, We don't think it will have a consequential impact either on the credit performance of the portfolio or the new business opportunity. Speaker 900:37:08Appreciate the good color. Thank you. Operator00:37:14This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to management for any closing remarks. Speaker 300:37:21Well, thank you all again for joining us. We'll be participating in the Barclays Financial Services Operator00:37:38Conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You mayRead morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallNMI Q2 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) NMI Earnings HeadlinesNMI (NASDAQ:NMIH) Rating Increased to Buy at StockNews.comMay 7 at 2:31 AM | americanbankingnews.comNMI (NASDAQ:NMIH) Shares Gap Up After Strong EarningsMay 2, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comAll Signs Point To Collapse - 401(k)s/IRAs /Are DoomedRetiring? Not so Fast..Hold Onto Your Bootstraps For A Long Road AheadMay 8, 2025 | American Hartford Gold (Ad)NMI Holdings, Inc. (NASDAQ:NMIH) Q1 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptMay 1, 2025 | insidermonkey.comNMI Holdings's Earnings OutlookApril 30, 2025 | nasdaq.comNMI Holdings Inc (NMIH) Q1 2025 Earnings Call Highlights: Record Revenue and Net Income Propel ...April 30, 2025 | finance.yahoo.comSee More NMI Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like NMI? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on NMI and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About NMINMI (NASDAQ:NMIH) provides private mortgage guaranty insurance services in the United States. The company offers mortgage insurance services, such as primary and pool insurance; and outsourced loan review services to mortgage loan originators. It serves national and regional mortgage banks, money center banks, credit unions, community banks, builder-owned mortgage lenders, internet-sourced lenders, and other non-bank lenders. 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There are 10 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:01Good afternoon, and welcome to the NMI Holdings Inc. 2nd Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note this event is being recorded. Operator00:00:29I would now like to turn the conference over to John Swenson of Management. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:36Thank you, Anthony. Good afternoon, and welcome to the 2023 second quarter conference call for National Mi. I'm John Swenson, Vice President of Investor Relations and Treasury. Joining us on the call today are Brad Shuster, Executive Chairman Adam Pollitzer, President and Chief Executive Officer Ravi Maleila, Chief Financial Officer and Nick Guilmuto, our Controller. Financial results for the quarter were released after the close today. Speaker 100:01:04The press release may be accessed on NMI's website located at nationalmy.com under the Investors tab. During the course of this call, we may make comments about our expectations for the future. Actual results could differ materially from those contained in these forward looking statements. Additional information about the factors that could cause actual results or Trends to differ materially from those discussed on the call can be found on our website or through our regulatory filings with the SEC. If and to the extent the company makes forward looking statements, we do not undertake any obligation to update those statements in the future in light of subsequent developments. Speaker 100:01:44Further, no one should rely on the fact that the guidance of such statements is current at any time other than the time of this call. Also note that on this call, we may refer to certain non GAAP measures. In today's press release and on our website, we have provided a Reconciliation of these measures to the most comparable measures under GAAP. Now, I'll turn the call over to Brett. Speaker 200:02:06Thank you, John, and good afternoon, everyone. As we talk today, I'm greatly encouraged both by the resiliency of the broader Macro environment and housing market and by the significant and consistent success we're achieving across our business. In the Q2, National Mi again delivered standout operating performance, Continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results. Our lenders and their borrowers Continued to turn to us for critical down payment support. And in the second quarter, we generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW volume, ending the period with a record $191,300,000,000 of high In Washington, our conversations remain active and constructive. Speaker 200:03:13Policymakers, regulators, the FHFA and the GSEs We remain highly focused on promoting broader access and affordability to the housing market for all borrowers, And we believe there is broad recognition of the unique and valuable role that the private mortgage insurance industry plays in this regard. At National Mi, we recognize the need to provide borrowers with a fair and equitable opportunity to access the housing market, establish a community identity and build long term wealth through homeownership. We are actively engaged and committed to equally supporting borrowers from all communities And are proud to have helped over 1,600,000 borrowers to date realize their homeownership goals. Overall, we had a terrific second quarter and are well positioned to continue to lead with impact And drive value for our people, our customers and their borrowers and our shareholders going forward. With that, let me turn it over to Adam. Speaker 300:04:28Thank you, Brad, and good afternoon, everyone. National Mi continued to outperform in the 2nd quarter, Delivering significant new business production, strong growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results, We generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW volume and ended the period with a record $191,300,000,000 of high quality, High performing insurance in force. Total revenue in the 2nd quarter was a record $142,700,000 We delivered record GAAP net income of $80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share and an 18.6% return on equity. Overall, we had an exceptionally strong quarter and are confident as we look ahead. The macro environment and housing market in particular have proven to be resilient in the face of increased interest rates. Speaker 300:05:24We see an attractive and sustained new business opportunity With our lender customers and their borrowers continuing to rely on us in size for critical down payment support, We have an exceptionally high quality insured portfolio and our credit performance continues to stand ahead. Our persistency remains well above historical trend And when paired with our strong NIW volume has helped to drive continued growth and embedded value gains in our insured book. Notwithstanding these strong positives, however, macro risks do remain and we've maintained a proactive stance With respect to our pricing, risk selection and reinsurance decisioning, it continues to be the prudent and appropriate course, And we are encouraged by the continued discipline that we see across the broader private MI market. Underwriting standards remain rigorous And the pricing environment remains balanced and constructive. Overall, we had a terrific quarter, delivering strong operating performance, continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial results. Speaker 300:06:54I also want to note how proud I am That for the 8th consecutive year, National Mi has been recognized as a Great Place to Work. Great Place to Work is a global authority On workplace culture, employee experience and leadership and partners with Fortune Magazine to produce the annual Fortune 100 Best We believe that the quality of our team and the culture that we've established are key competitive advantages It is gratifying to again be recognized for these strengths. Looking ahead, we are well positioned to continue to serve our customers and their borrowers, Invest in our employees and their success and deliver through the cycle growth, returns and value for our shareholders. With that, I'll turn it over to Ravi. Thank you, Adam. Speaker 300:07:45We delivered record financial results in the 2nd quarter With significant new business production, strong growth in our high quality insured portfolio, record top line performance, Favorable credit experience, continued expense efficiency and record bottom line profitability. Total revenue in the Q2 was a record $142,700,000 GAAP net income was a record 80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share and our return on equity was 18.6%. We generated $11,500,000,000 of NIW and our primary insurance in force grew to $191,300,000,000 up 2.5% from the end of the Q1 and 13.4% compared to the Q2 of 2022. 12 month persistency in our primary portfolio improved again, reaching 86% compared to 85.1% in the 1st quarter. Persistency continues to serve as an important driver of the growth and embedded value of our insured portfolio. Speaker 300:09:00Net premiums earned in the 2nd quarter were a record $126,000,000 compared to $121,800,000 in the 1st quarter. We earned $1,100,000 from the cancellation of single premium policies in the 2nd quarter compared to $1,400,000 in the 1st quarter. Net yield for the quarter was 26.7 basis points, up from 26.3 basis points in the Q1. Core yield, which excludes the cost of our reinsurance coverage and the contribution from cancellation earnings was 33.8 basis points, up from 33.7 basis points in the Q1. Investment income was $16,500,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to $14,900,000 in the Q1. Speaker 300:09:52Underwriting and operating expenses were $27,500,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to $25,800,000 in the Q1. Our expense ratio was 21.8% compared to 21.2% in the Q1. We had 4,349 defaults in our primary portfolio at June 30 compared to 4,475 at March 31st. And our default rate declined to 71 basis points at quarter end. The strong position and performance of our existing borrowers and continued cure activity within our previous default population. Speaker 300:10:43Interest expense in the quarter was $8,000,000 Net income was a record $80,300,000 or $0.95 per diluted share compared to $0.88 per diluted share in the Q1 and $0.86 per diluted share in the Q2 of 2022. Total cash and investments were $2,300,000,000 at quarter end, including $139,000,000 of cash and investments at the holding company. Shareholders' equity as of June 30 was $1,700,000,000 and book value per share was $21.25 Book value per share excluding the impact of net unrealized gains and losses in the investment portfolio was 23.53 Up 4.3% compared to the 4th quarter and 18.2% compared to the Q2 of last year. In the Q2, we repurchased $26,000,000 of common stock, retiring slightly more than 1,000,000 shares at an average price Speaker 400:11:52of $24.83 Speaker 300:11:53To date, we have repurchased a total of $97,000,000 of stock under the original $125,000,000 authorization, retiring 4,600,000 shares at an average price of $20.99 Today's new $200,000,000 authorization provides us with significant incremental REIT purchase capacity and will run through December 31, 2025. In July, we entered into a new excess of loss reinsurance agreement that will provide forward flow risk protection for policies originated in the 3rd 4th quarters of this year. The new deal further extends our comprehensive credit risk transfer program and carries an estimated 6 point 2 5% weighted average lifetime pretax cost. Our continued ability to compress the cycle time between transactions, Execute on favorable terms and secure forward flow coverage for our future production is particularly valuable As it serves to minimize our warehouse exposure and limit the credit risk retained in our high quality insured portfolio. At quarter end, we reported total available assets under PMIERs of $2,500,000,000 and risk based required assets of $1,300,000,000 Excess available assets were $1,200,000,000 Overall, we delivered standout financial results during the 2nd quarter With continued growth in our high quality insured portfolio and record top line performance, favorable credit experience and continued expense Driving record bottom line profitability and strong returns. Speaker 300:13:37With that, let me turn it back to Adam. Thank you, Ravi. We had a terrific quarter, once again delivering significant new business production, continued growth in our insured portfolio and record financial performance. Looking forward, we're confident. The macro environment and housing market have proven to be resilient in the face of increased interest rates and we have a strong customer franchise, A talented team driving us forward every day, an exceptionally high quality book covered by a comprehensive set of risk transfer solutions and a robust balance sheet supported by the significant earnings power of our platform. Speaker 300:14:14Taken together, we're well positioned to continue to serve our customers And their borrowers, invest in our employees and their success, drive growth in our high quality insured portfolio and deliver strong performance for our shareholders. Thank you for joining us today. I'll now ask the operator to come back on so we can take your questions. Operator00:14:35We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question will come from Doug Harter with Credit Suisse. You may now go ahead. Speaker 500:15:04Thanks. Can you talk a little bit about the current environment for premium yields And your outlook, it seems like it stabilized in the quarter. Is that A trend we can expect going forward and kind of where our new yields being written relative to the in force book? Speaker 300:15:27Sure. I'll take that. This is Ravi. Net yield in the quarter was 26.7 basis points versus 26.3 basis points in Q1 and both core and net were slightly up quarter over quarter. And I I'd say we benefited from the increase in persistency, but primarily it came from the cumulative gains We incurred from new business pricing over the last year plus and certainly we benefit a little bit from the modest improvement In quota share costs and that comes through from higher profit commission from ceded claims expense improvement that we saw in the quarter. Speaker 300:16:08But what we talked about in the past is just to focus on core yield, which really excludes reinsurance and cancellation earnings. And we believe that will remain relatively stable given that we have strong persistency and the rate actions that we've taken so far have been positive. You have to really take into account the fact that that's balanced by the high quality production, which tends to come on with a different rate profile. Yes. And then Doug, in terms of how premium rate on new business written in Q2 stacks up against that, we don't provide specifics about our premium rate, But we do continue to see the benefit of those rate increases that Ravi mentioned. Speaker 300:16:49We've really worked hard to achieve them over the past year. And in the business that we wrote this quarter, the $11,500,000,000 of high quality, high return volume It's most importantly supportive of our strong mid teen return objectives. Speaker 400:17:06Great. Thank you. Operator00:17:11Our next question will come from Arren Cyganovich with Citi. You may now go ahead. Speaker 600:17:18Thanks. This environment seems to be almost like a Goldilocks for private mortgage insurance, Home price appreciation, low claims experience, still being able to have a decent amount of new origination, high What are you worried about? What would be something that you would be concerned about for this environment to change? Speaker 300:17:46Yes. Look, I think we're Aaron, it's a good question. We're encouraged and I'd say incrementally more optimistic when we look At recent data and headlines, certainly, I think we can all see that macro risks have been receding. And it's been receding really since our last call In May, right, we've had a resolution of the debt ceiling deadline. We've had stronger than expected growth. Speaker 300:18:08Recent inflation data has shown signs of easing. We've seen stabilization of the regional banking sector through this quarter's earnings announcements. And alongside that, we've got increasing consumer confidence. And so there's reason to be optimistic, In particular, because of how resilient the housing market and house prices have been. At the same time, we mentioned in our prepared remarks that risks remain. Speaker 300:18:32We didn't elaborate, but really there are risks that remain broadly to the economy. It's not A certainty that the Fed is going to be able to engineer a soft landing. And so when we look at it, right, the Fed just tightened again and still has a hawkish stance from our vantage The commercial real estate market is in focus. We've got the pending restart of student loan payments, as something that may impact household finances. And regional banks are now facing increased capital requirements that over time, may curtail lending activity. Speaker 300:19:03And so when we look at it, what we're concerned about is really what happens around us, those items that we can't control. We can control how conservatively and appropriately we're managing Our business, how we're managing our capital position, our risk mix, our pricing decisions, but what happens around us is of consequence. And so when we look at those items in balance, We do still see the potential for volatility on the horizon from a macroeconomic standpoint and that's what we're concerned about. Speaker 600:19:31That's helpful. Thank you. And then just secondarily, the persistency rate inched up a bit higher. What do you think that in this kind of rate environment would be like the maximum? Is it getting kind of close to wherever that maximum would be on a persistency level? Speaker 300:19:47Aaron, it's a good question. I think I mentioned during the call that we reached 86% in Q2 up from 85 1% in Q1. And look, we expect it to remain well above historical trend through year end. And we might see some modest improvement going forward, but I think the way to think about it is that it's probably going to be naturally a little bit more muted over time. We've just seen it increase just so much and there just is as we go through our portfolio a minimum level of turnover that's going to occur And we're going to start to see some of our portfolio, our most recent vintages Hitting points of time and cancellation. Speaker 300:20:33And as a result, we're probably going to see some modest improvement going forward, but it's going to be muted over the course of the year. But it's Still well above historical trends and we're benefiting significantly from the high persistency. Speaker 600:20:47Thank Speaker 400:20:49you. Operator00:20:52Our next question will come from Rick Shane with JPMorgan. You may now go ahead. Speaker 700:20:58Thanks for taking my questions this afternoon, everybody. Hey, I'd like to talk a little bit about In the unusual environment that we're in, the puts and takes for MI penetration in the context of overall mortgage volume, On one hand, we're hearing that cash buyers have huge advantages in this market, but that's Obviously not normally, the they would not normally be competition for Your customers, I'm wondering if you're seeing any substitution in that market. And at the same time, On the other hand, robust pricing for starter homes presumably is driving increased demand. I'm kind of curious how you balance that. Speaker 300:21:50Yes. Rick, it's a great set of questions and I may actually broaden it to just talk generally about where we see origination activity developing and the that we have both in the near term and over the longer term to support borrowers and help them gain access to their homes. When we spoke last May, we shared our expectation that we would see a total purchase origination market of roughly $1,300,000,000,000 for the year. And I think the starting point, right, to preface your question is, we're actually still seeing notwithstanding the fact that there are headlines around affordability that rates remain elevated. We're seeing a really constructive purchase environment. Speaker 300:22:27And even though it sits behind the record levels that we saw what I'll call the pandemic years, By historical standards, it's a very large purchase market. And within that, we're seeing a tremendous opportunity To write new business, we've guided through the course of this year that we expect to see a total private MI market of Give or take $300,000,000,000 and that remains the case. The first half of the year has come in generally in line With our expectations and our outlook remains the same today. And so look, there are buyers out there Who will transact, they need Mi support and over the long term, not just through 2023, but over the long term, there are a number Fundamental drivers of both purchase volume as well as Mi demand that we see sustaining Our market opportunity. And so we haven't seen a shift because of maybe the rise and increasing advantage that cash buyers have or penetration rates otherwise. Speaker 300:23:35It's a very large market that's coming in line with our expectations And it gives us increased confidence as we think about the long term opportunity. Speaker 700:23:45Got it. Okay, very helpful. And you for reframing my question. I think that's a better way to explain it. Thank you. Operator00:23:56Our next question will come from Mark Hughes with Truist. You may now go ahead. Speaker 300:24:03Yes. Thank you. Speaker 800:24:04Could you say again, what was the share buyback dollar amount in the Q2 and then any insight on your pacing on the buybacks as you think about the balance of the year and the next year? Speaker 300:24:18Sure. Mark, it's Ravi. In Q2, we did about $26,000,000 in share repurchases, Slightly over 1,000,000 of shares. Certainly, we're pleased with the execution. With today's announcement, we have a little bit left in the $125,000,000 share repurchase program. Speaker 300:24:42And so when you combine that with the $200,000,000 you get to $228,000,000 capacity and we have through the end of 2025 to execute. As you know, we're not on a set schedule. It really depends on a number of factors, including market dynamics, How we feel about things in the market, in particular, our stock price relative to the relative value in the shares. And so we plan to execute opportunistically, and we think about things going forward as the market progresses, we adjust accordingly. Yes. Speaker 300:25:19Mark, I think there was a as a rough guide, we've got $228,000,000 of capacity to be deployed over the next 10 quarters. And you could think about things on a roughly ratable basis through the end of the authorization period in December of 2025 although I think Ravi's caveat that it's not going to be firmly regimented is absolutely the case. Speaker 800:25:41Right. So maybe similar to Q2. And then on the expense ratio, refreshment, were there any capital markets expenses in that number? And then Up a Speaker 300:25:54little bit sequentially. Speaker 800:25:57Anything unusual in there? And how do you think it should trend going forward? Speaker 300:26:03Mark, this is Ravi. Just to answer that there are 2 parts to your question there. From the capital markets side, The XOLs typically are structured in a way where we don't pay specific fees that are that we outlined like the way we do with ILNs. It's all rolled into the actual weighted average lifetime pretax cost that we quoted. And so that's separate. Speaker 300:26:26And maybe just to take the second part of your question Just on sort of quarter over quarter changes. We're always focused on managing the business with discipline and efficiency. And we're pleased with the 21.8 percent expense ratio in Q2. We always try to focus on the ratio and not the dollars. We're really operating with the same footprint. Speaker 300:26:48We have the smallest headcount by far in the industry. And if you want to think about this quarter in particular, Just to give some color for that, in March, we award salary increases. Those could include Merit, cost of living adjustments, promotions and grant equity awards. And the Q2 increases in comp This Q1 were one of the components that drove the quarter over quarter change. And then another portion of that is just ordinary course projects. Speaker 300:27:19The pickup we We saw from Q1 to Q2 were just sort of ordinary course things that we do on a regular basis. We also saw NIW Pickup and NIW volume increased 31% quarter over quarter and that increases our variable costs and that also contributed To our quarter to quarter increases. So take all of that together, that's what drove the increase. We've said this before in the past About our OpEx, we don't provide guidance, but we do expect OpEx from a dollars perspective to grow because we're always in people, in systems, in risk management strategies and we grow. And When you put all those together, you could see some uptick in Q4 and Q3 in terms of dollars of expenses. Speaker 300:28:13Appreciate that detail. Thank you. Operator00:28:19Next question will come from Bose George with KBW. You may now go ahead. Speaker 400:28:25Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Just wanted to go back to the discussion on macro, especially the improved expectations for home prices, I guess, over the course of this year. How is that sort of running through your thoughts on loss severities? Speaker 300:28:43Look, it's a I'd say we're certainly encouraged by the broad resiliency That we've seen in the macro environment in the housing market. For reserving purposes though, we've always aimed to take what we would say is an appropriate, but also appropriately conservative view. And so in practice, this means that we generally anchor more to downside scenarios when setting our position and that remained the case in Q2. We did in fact though factor for the resiliency that we've observed in the macro environment and housing market year to date, but we balanced that By the need to still maintain a conservative stance and reflect some of those risks that I talked about that we still see on the horizon. And so at June 30, What that meant is that we moderated our expectations for economic strain and house price declines going forward in our reserving analysis, we didn't fully remove what I would call a stress bias from our work. Speaker 400:29:40Okay. That makes sense. Thanks. And then just switching to the ILN market, It looks like one of your peers is in the market with the deal. Is that market starting to look better in terms of potentially reentering for you guys? Speaker 300:29:56What I would say is that it's certainly, we're encouraged by seeing the ILN market rebound And certainly having one of our folks in the industry in the market, the first in September, that's very exciting for us. Certainly, we feel that it's nice to see the market healing a little bit. When we think about the state of the reinsurance markets And we're happy to do the most recent XOL. We think capacity has been available broadly in the market. It's been constructive on constructive terms. Speaker 300:30:32In particular, our XOL, we had new reinsurers come into this latest XOL. And Pricing and risk appetite has been wider than points in the past and not every reinsurer is sort of back in the market, but We're happy to execute the deal. It's a competitive deal on attractive terms and certainly reflects an efficient form of Premier's Capital. Yes. Bose, these are all favorable developments, right. Speaker 300:30:57Our ability to continue executing on favorable terms, in size and with speed In the traditional reinsurance markets and we've noted the deal as well that you touched on and that's a constructive one to see a market that We have value that we've accessed meaningfully in the past, rebound constructively. It gives us more optionality And gives us additional outlets, which is valuable as we go forward. Speaker 400:31:22Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Operator00:31:28Next question will come from Geoffrey Dunn with Dowling. You may now go ahead. Speaker 500:31:34Thanks. Good afternoon. First question, was there an OpCo dividend up in the quarter? Speaker 300:31:40Yes, there was. We distributed $98,000,000 of Ordinary course dividends from NMIC, the lead operating subsidiary up to the holding company during the quarter. Speaker 500:31:51Okay. And then with respect to the assumptions in your loss provisioning, I think you were taking a very conservative stance on home prices. What are you now thinking as you look forward in your assumptions? Speaker 300:32:04Yes. So Jeff, we've never specifically outlined the underlying assumption, But suffice it to say, while we have moderated our expectations for what STREAM might look like, we have still embedded our Maintained our stress bias in the analysis. Speaker 500:32:22Okay. And last question, I don't know the details on this, but Enac just announced formation of a Bermuda subsidiary to help the CRT business. Is that something that management and the Board have ever discussed as a strategy for National or something that you think Could be kind of within a 3 year strategic plan for National? Speaker 300:32:43We don't have anything immediately on the horizon. We'll be curious to learn more about the announced announcement. It is a path that some others in our sector have pursued. Right now, we find the best value of deploying our capital To be in support of our primary business, we continue to grow our customer franchise, we continue to grow the opportunity that we're able To support and that remains our focus for now. Speaker 500:33:07Okay. Thank you. Operator00:33:12Our next question will come from Eric Hagen with BTIG. You may now go ahead. Speaker 900:33:19Hey, thanks. How are we doing? First question here, I mean, how do you feel like homeowners are keeping up with inflation at this point, especially the borrowers with high DCI to begin with, I realize the macro data suggests one thing, but is there anything that maybe you're adjusting for At the portfolio level? And how do you maybe adjust for the risk that inflation stays higher for longer, if you will? Speaker 300:33:42Yes. Eric, it's a good question. Look, I think first and foremost, these are among other items, ones that we account for From the standpoint of both pricing as well as actively managing the flow of risk and the mix of that risk coming into our portfolio, One of the risk markers that we consider, both in on a standalone basis, but also How it interacts with other risk markers is a borrower's debt to income ratio, which is essentially a household coverage metric. And we price for higher DTI borrowers in expectation that we'll see higher claims activity For those borrowers because their household finances are a bit more stretched. And we also actively manage the concentration of risk coming through. Speaker 300:34:28And so like all other risk markers, like all other risk factors that are out there, we manage for it in a few ways. We try to price for it the risks that we're comfortable taking, we define what our risk appetite is and try to manage our mix such that we don't exceed that. And then we also pursue reinsurance consistently to make sure we don't have an Aggregation in the portfolio. Speaker 900:34:51Yes, that's helpful. What would you maybe identify at this point as a few of the stronger catalysts for first time homebuyers at this point? Like I think you guys mentioned the expiration of student loan forbearance. You thinking that could have a bigger impact on the existing book or the forward opportunity as some borrowers might not be able to qualify or just how you guys thinking about that? Thanks. Speaker 300:35:14Yes. Look, I'd say, it's obviously pretty new. What I'd say broadly is we're watching it right now, Particularly because we've got an election cycle coming up. I think the Biden administration has a clear vested interest ensuring a smooth transition for borrowers and is taking steps to ensure that that transition is seamless. To that end, we've seen several important announcements both from the administration as well as from the Department of Education In the month or so since the Supreme Court ruling came out, striking down the original student debt relief Program. Speaker 300:35:54And so we'll see. It is possible that the upcoming resumption of payments will have an impact On certain borrowers in our portfolio who perhaps budgeted expecting more permanent relief. From an overall credit standpoint though, we don't expect At this point that the restart of student loan payments will have a material impact on the performance of our portfolio. As for the potential impact on new business activity, I'd love to give you a specific answer, but admittedly it's difficult to tell. On the one hand, you could see an even greater need for Private MI support before with borrowers who now have to make additional monthly payments towards their student debt, Not able to save as much for a down payment as previously hoped. Speaker 300:36:38But you could also see some pressure the other way with borrowers who were already stretched by higher rates And house prices now pushed to either look at less expensive homes and it's the loan size that drives NIW or perhaps being moved out of the buyer market entirely. So it's one we really need to monitor at this point before we know which way it will come out. Overall though, We don't think it will have a consequential impact either on the credit performance of the portfolio or the new business opportunity. Speaker 900:37:08Appreciate the good color. Thank you. Operator00:37:14This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to management for any closing remarks. Speaker 300:37:21Well, thank you all again for joining us. We'll be participating in the Barclays Financial Services Operator00:37:38Conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You mayRead morePowered by