TrustCo Bank Corp NY Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

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January 23, 2024

There are 7 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good day, and welcome to the TrustCo Bancorp Earnings Call and Webcast. Before proceeding, we would like to mention that this presentation may contain forward looking information about TrustCo Bancorp New York that is intended to be covered by the Safe Harbor for forward looking statements provided by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual results, performance or achievements could differ materially from those expressed in or implied by such statements due to various risks, uncertainties and other factors. More detailed information about these and other risk factors can be found in our press release that preceded this call and in the Risk Factors and Forward Looking Statements section of our annual report on Form 10 ks and as updated by our quarterly reports on Form 10Q. The forward looking statements made on this call are valid only as of the date hereof And the company disclaims any obligation to update this information to reflect events or developments after the date of this call, except as may be required by applicable law.

Operator

During today's call, we will discuss certain financial measures derived from our financial statements that are not determined in accordance with U. S. GAAP. The reconciliations of such non GAAP financial measures to the most comparable GAAP figures are included in our earnings press release, which is available under the Investor Relations tab of our website at chuscobank.com. Please also note that today's event is being recorded.

Operator

A replay of the call will be available for 30 days and an audio webcast will be available for 1 year as described in our earnings press release. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Robert J. McCormick, Chairman, President, CEO. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the call. As the host said, I'm Rob McCormick, President of the TrustCo Bank. I'm joined today as usual with Scott Salvador and Mike Ozimek. Scott will provide color on lending and credit quality, and Mike follow my comments with detail on the numbers. In 2023, we crossed an important milestone.

Speaker 1

Our loan portfolio surpassed $5,000,000,000 During the year, we grew residential loans over $192,000,000 and grew our commercial portfolio by over $50,000,000 We are very happy to report that our loan growth was accomplished without borrowing or brokered time deposits. While many see merit in these devices, we think the better practice is funding loan growth from our deposits at the Trusco Way. On the subject of deposits, it is noteworthy that our team managed A difficult year very well because they had already done the hard work of establishing customer relationships. Our bankers were able to grow our total deposits. While some funds shifted from quarter to time, the important thing is we kept the customer, retained the deposits and created the opportunity for funds to flow back into core.

Speaker 1

Of course, the resulting increase in cost of funds affected our margin. The effect was less than it would have been had we borrowed or purchased deposits. In other words, in classic Trusco fashion, our team turned a potential negative into a positive. Also in 2023, we cleaned up some things that could have hampered us in the future. Like many banks across the country, we were faced with litigation involving overdraft fees.

Speaker 1

We chose to resolve these matters in the best way that in the way that best benefits our customers and shareholders. Although final quarter approval is pending, we consider it all resolved and that matter behind us. We also took a hard look at our branch network and made the decision to close 3 locations that did not meet our expectations. We are leaner and more efficient coming into 2024. Also worthy of comment is the fact that our credit quality remains extraordinary.

Speaker 1

Nonperforming assets to total assets were 0.29 percent at year end. That is the lowest this metric has been in over 17 years. Again, quite an accomplishment by our team in a challenging environment. Finally, as noted in the press release, all of this good work springs from our rock solid capital position. We took advantage of investment that were in line with our strategy preserving capital and maintaining maximum flexibility.

Speaker 1

Because of this, we had cash on hand to fund our loan growth did not need to chase higher price deposits. No one knows exactly where rates will go or what other factors might come up this year, We are confident in our position and ready to capitalize on opportunities that arise. Now Mike will give us detail on the numbers, Scott will cover lending and then we'll take your questions. Mike?

Speaker 2

Thank you, Rob, and good morning, everyone. I will now review TrustCo's financial results for the Q4 of 2023. As we noted in the press release, the company saw a year to date net income of $58,600,000 which yielded a return on average assets and average equity of 0.97% and 9.46%, respectively. Capital remains strong. Consolidated equity to assets ratio was 10.46 for the Q4 of 'twenty three compared to 10% for the Q4 of 2022.

Speaker 2

Book value per share at December 31, 'twenty three was 33.92 up 7.5% compared to 3,154 a year earlier. Average loans for the Q4 of 2023 grew 6.6 percent or $309,900,000 to $5,000,000,000 from the Q4 of 2022, an all time high. Consequently, loan growth has continued to increase and occurred in all of our loan categories and leading the charge was the residential real estate portfolio as always, which increased by $192,200,000 or 4.26 percent in the Q4 of 2023 or the same period in 2022. Average commercial loans increased $50,500,000 or 22.6 percent. Home equity lines of credit increased $61,800,000 or 22.2 percent and installment loans increased $5,500,000 or 50.3 percent over the same period in 2023.

Speaker 2

For the Q4 of 2023, the provision for credit losses was $1,350,000 The additional provision this quarter is reflection of the current economic environment and not an indication of existing credit issues at the bank. Retaining deposits has been a key focus for 2023. Although core deposits were down to greater prior year, total deposits as of December 31, 'twenty three increased $158,000,000 to $5,350,000,000 from the end of 'twenty two. As we move forward, our objective is to continue to offer competitive product offerings of the bank through aggressive marketing and product differentiation. As we have mentioned, we understood the big inflows of deposits during the pandemic were temporary and that is why we did not invest that liquidity into securities or loans retain that liquidity on balance sheet for when that depositors were to absorb those funds.

Speaker 2

This gave us the flexibility to strategically priced core deposits while retaining core customers. Net interest income was $38,600,000 for the Q4 of 2023, decrease of $10,600,000 or 21.5 percent compared to the same period in 2022. Net interest margin for the Q4 of 2023 was 2.6% compared to the Q4 of 2022. Yield on interest earnings and assets increased to 3.93%, up 39 basis points from 3.54% in the Q4 of 2020 The cost of interest bearing liabilities increased to 1.72% in the Q4 of 'twenty 3 from the Q4 of 2022. We continue to be optimistic as we enter 2024.

Speaker 2

The majority of our CD portfolio has a 3 to 9 months maturity and will give us opportunity to reprice these CDs in the near term as rates potentially fall. Our Wealth Management division continues to be a significant recurring source of non interest income. They had approximately $967,000,000 of assets under management as of December 31, 2023. Now on to non interest expense. Total non interest expense, net of ordinary expense, came in at $28,800,000 up $1,500,000 from the prior quarter.

Speaker 2

As mentioned in the earnings release, This increase is primarily the result of non recurring expenses for our litigation settlement and also for branch closures. This was offset by decreases in various other categories of expenses. ORE expense net of net came in at and income of $12,000 for the quarter as compared to the expense of $163,000 in the prior quarter. Given the continued low level of ORE expenses, we're going to continue to hold anticipated level of expense not to exceed $250,000 per quarter. All the other categories of non interest expense were in line with our expectations for the Q4.

Speaker 2

We would expect 24's total recurring non interest expense, Net of ORE expense to remain in the range of $26,900,000 to $27,400,000 We are optimistic of expenses in 2024. Now Scott will review the loan portfolio and non performing loans.

Speaker 3

Good morning, everyone. Thanks, Mike. Total loans for the Q4 increased by 43,000,000 numbers of 0.9%. Year over year, the increase was $270,000,000 or 5.7%. Residential loans have again led the increases with a total of $37,000,000 in quarterly growth.

Speaker 3

This was split between $22,000,000 in first mortgages and $15,000,000 in our home equity projects. The full year showed similar trends with $160,000,000 of 1st mortgage growth and $62,000,000 in home equities. Commercial loans continue to grow, increasing by $5,000,000 on the quarter and by 43,000,000 year. Overall, residential activity and market trends remain similar to those discussed in the most recent quarters. We continue to post solid net growth in our 1st mortgage product, although overall purchase activity is reflective of nationwide trends and is slower than in prior year.

Speaker 3

The midwinter holiday period is, of course, also a slower time of the year, although we expect activity to pick up as we begin to enter the early stages of the new season. The recent decrease in interest rates, although modest, is also a positive factor, which should help overall activity. The Home Equity products continue to perform well overall with a good amount of activity and net growth. The loan backlog is down from quarter end, which is normal for this time of the year and also down year over year. This should begin to build as we progress forward in overall activity increases.

Speaker 3

Interest rates have come down somewhat as mentioned, and we currently stand at 6.3eight percent for our base 30 year fixed rate. We always have a variety of promotions and product enhancements we are working on. We expect to utilize our status as primarily a portfolio lender to help spur activity and increase growth. Asset quality remains strong overall. Non performing assets totaled $17,900,000 as of twelvethirty one.

Speaker 3

This is down from $19,100,000 in September and $19,600,000 a year ago. Non performing loans have remained relatively flat at $17,700,000 down approximately $200,000 from last quarter and up about the same amount from a year ago. This total equates to 0.35 percent of nonperforming loans to total loans, down slightly from 0.37% prior year. Net charge offs for the quarter totaled $248,000 For the full year, our charge offs equated to a net recovery of $46,000 The loan loss allowance now stands at 0.97 percent of total loans as of year end. And finally, the coverage ratio or allowance for credit losses to non performing loans 2 75% in December compared to 263% a year

Speaker 2

ago. Rob?

Speaker 1

That's our story, and we're happy to answer any questions any of you might have.

Operator

Thank Our first question comes from the line of Alex Twerdahl with Piper Sandler. Alex, please go ahead. Your line is now open.

Speaker 4

Good morning, guys.

Speaker 2

Good morning, Alex. Good morning, Alex.

Speaker 4

I was just first hoping that maybe you could sort of just help us get a sense for how the NIM might react to some Fed rate cuts, I think the first one is now modeled in for May according to the forward curve. And as you kind of think about the CDs that Mike you alluded to repricing relatively quickly versus some of the assets that are more tied to the short end of the curve, quickly versus some of the assets that are more tied to the short end of the curve. Like how should we expect the NIM to react to the first couple of cuts if and when we get them?

Speaker 1

We've already started back in CD rates now from their high, Alex. And most people are going very short with regard to CDs. So we're optimistic with regard to repricing those to current market conditions at a lower rate later in the year. It's interesting if you offer a 4 Just a 4.9% CD for 3 months or a 4.75% for 6 to 9 months, every takes to 4.90%. So it's interesting to watch how the consumer is reacting to that.

Speaker 1

And I do hope we are optimistic with regard to repricing deposits through the balance of the year.

Speaker 4

Okay. So I mean, I take from your tone that you'd expect that sort of the pace of repricing of the deposits, the rate, which accelerated a little bit in the Q4 that that should abate In the Q1, is that reasonable expectation? That would be the hope. Okay. And then

Speaker 3

when I

Speaker 4

look at the ACL, it went up about 2 basis points during the quarter. And I think you alluded to just some macro some changes in macro forecasts. What specifically, I guess, is it one of the one Geography versus the other or I guess what specifically has been driving that ACL and is that something that I guess should creep higher a little bit as maybe a little bit more uncertainty develops in 2024?

Speaker 2

That certainly could creep higher if uncertainty continues. I can

Speaker 4

tell you that it is

Speaker 2

I mean, you can see the nonperforming numbers They're better. I mean, they really are flat. So that's not what's driving the calculation. It is, however, some of the macro numbers, as you alluded to, on some of the unemployment forecasts, the housing numbers, that type of thing, that's what drove it a little bit in the Q4. So if to the extent that, that gets worse, we could see a little more.

Speaker 2

But I think that was a healthy provision for the Q4. And I don't see us trending well above 1%, I think I'm comfortable where we are now.

Speaker 1

We've been in a net recovery position for a very long period of time now. So

Speaker 2

at some point, yes. Correct.

Speaker 3

That's correct.

Speaker 4

Yes. Yes. I guess just back to sort of the deposit strategy, you guys have always kept a pretty healthy level of cash on the balance sheet and that looks like it grew into the end of the year. As I think about that just relative to the amount capital you have, it seems like you have so much capital that gives you a lot of flexibility to sort of create liquidity if needed. I guess, Do you need to carry such a high level of cash?

Speaker 4

Or is that something that maybe can run down and give you a little bit more Just a little bit more flexibility with deposit pricing and maybe a little bit more aggressiveness in lowering your deposit costs as Maybe we're now at a peak in rates.

Speaker 1

I mean, you know as much or more about that than we do. Liquidity certainly keeps the wolves off the door and gives you great flexibility to do what you have to with regard to deposit pricing. So I wouldn't want to see a crazy increase in cash levels, But where we're at right now is not a bad position for the economic conditions and some of the things we're facing, The industry.

Speaker 4

Okay. And then just final question for me just on expenses. You guys talked about closing 3 branches and making some tough Obviously, it's a challenging revenue environment, so that makes a lot of sense. Are there more initiatives underway? I mean, I know you gave the guidance for the year, but Are there more things you're looking at if the revenue environment remains challenged to be able to trim expenses?

Speaker 1

Yes. There are a number of relocations that are pending right now in our branch network, not necessarily closures. And every branch that comes up for maturity is evaluated and all options are open at that point in time. An analysis is done on profitability and influence on the company and everything else and a decision and a risk assessment is made. And then the decision is made whether we should continue with that lease or not.

Speaker 1

And we have 2 or 3 pending relocations right now that we think are great opportunities for our company. Just like we did with Wilton Last year, if you I don't know how closely you track us, but we moved our Wilton branch up the road next to a very popular convenience store and it's been a great move out of a former enclosed mall. So those types of things are opportunities for us And we're very happy to take advantage of them. We have further consolidation you'll see in our Rotterdam locations. We're closing a branch there and selling that.

Speaker 1

So we'll see more coming.

Speaker 4

Okay. That's helpful. And actually one more question if I could, just on capital. You guys

Speaker 2

are charging

Speaker 4

a pretty healthy level of TCE stocks, Still trading below tangible book value. Is that is buyback something that you would put back on the table in the near term?

Speaker 1

We like the idea of the buyback. We have an approved program, Alex, and we've been active in the past with regard to buybacks and We like that idea, especially with regard to book value.

Speaker 5

Okay.

Speaker 4

Great. Appreciate you taking my questions.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Ian Lapay with Gabelli Funds. Ian, please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Hi, good morning, Rob. Congrats on a solid year in a tough environment.

Speaker 1

Good morning, Ian.

Speaker 5

Good morning. A few questions. First, You talked last quarter about a split the difference loan product. Can you give an update on how that's going?

Speaker 1

It was not very well received, Ian, and we kind of walked away from that. I was actually shocked how poorly received it was. I do have to say, if you had talked to our mortgage originators, they would say it did introduce us to questions and comments on a lot of real estate transactions, but we didn't get a lot of people to bite on it.

Speaker 5

Okay. Yes, it seemed like a sensible thing, but I thought so too. Next on credit, Obviously, terrific, dollars 46,000 in net recovery. What do you expect though over the next couple of years for charge offs? I mean, I assume that it can't stay this good, but when you're underwriting, what type particularly with higher rates now, What would be a good expectation for charge offs?

Speaker 1

You've been with us for several years. We're a pretty conservative company, and I certainly agree economic conditions and some of the changes could drive a little bit more with regard to charge off, but we don't see them skyrocketing. Our backlog and our shorter term delinquencies are not climbing. We have a very good handle on our collections And we just don't see them skyrocketing over the near term or really even increasing markedly over the near term. So I think we're pretty comfortable with where we're at.

Speaker 1

As far as the net recovery, we've been in a net recovery position for so long now. Excuse me, I don't know how long that can continue, but we don't see that turning dramatically to a significant loss.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 5

Great. And then lastly on so you've got about 238,000,000 in residential mortgage backed securities. And I know this is most other banks have much more proportionally, but like Why for you would you buy any of these, given that you're the core business is to hold fixed rate mortgages? Maybe that's just the first thing why it's like

Speaker 2

Yes. Generally, we agree with what you're saying that But we see good opportunities in

Speaker 1

the mortgage backed and that's when we jump in and out of them. Sometimes along your line of thinking, The agencies work pretty well for us, but there have been opportunities to grab some rate on mortgage backed and have jumped in. But I mean the bank's portfolio is really a big mortgage backed security. So generally speaking, we agree with you. Right.

Speaker 5

So why not then, because I've been struggling with all banks owning this security, Given short term funding, so for you, it looks like yours are yielding about 2.3%. Why wouldn't you sell those and get a tax refund and then you could reinvest in Either keep it in cash or 1 or 2 year treasuries earning double and then position yourself. As you said in the release, There could be a number of different interest rate environments. We don't really know, but it seems like that would protect you from a risk management standpoint as well?

Speaker 1

That certainly gets tempting with the way the rate situation is right now. And we do evaluate that pretty regularly. We've looked at that portfolio a number of times and what the tolerance is for that loss. But overall, we're pretty comfortable with where we're at. But any opportunity we have to do something like that, we would try and take advantage of.

Speaker 1

Do you want to add any color to that, Mike?

Speaker 2

No, I agree with you. We definitely look at it. I mean, when we look at it in the past, the loss that would generate when we bought higher securities. If you were to go out and buy higher securities, it was just longer than what I guess our tolerance Our payback window, we thought was appropriate. So but we definitely look at that.

Speaker 2

We looked at that in the past.

Speaker 1

Certainly others have done that, Ian. Okay, great.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 5

Yes. No, I just I've been surprised with how much and like I said, you've done much better than the vast majority of others, but it just seems like a strange investment for a bank to make. Thank you. Okay. Well, great.

Speaker 5

Thanks guys. And again, congrats on a good year.

Speaker 4

Thanks. Thank you. Same to you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Greg Roder with Adiranak Funds. Greg, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Good morning. Hey, Just a question on time deposits. Good morning. Time deposits in the quarter were up like 16% Sequentially, total deposits were up for the first time meaningfully. So I'm curious is you're saying that it's a move from core to time and I get that, but it was probably a little bit more than that.

Speaker 6

I'm just curious if you could provide some more colors to new accounts, bigger accounts, Did you go out longer on the term?

Speaker 1

Well, we're very much relationship driven, Greg. So A lot of the time deposit accounts come with the requirement for core. And I said in my part of the presentation We work with our existing customers and work those relationships as much as we possibly can and work our customer base and our portfolios to see who has what product and try and cross sell additional products to those customers. So I think Certainly, core has risen as a function of the time deposits coming in. And I would say that it's as much a shift as it is new time deposits.

Speaker 1

There was desperation. The rates had been so low For so long, there had been a lot of desperation in the population for higher rates. So that you saw a lot of people take the jump into time at that point in time. So but I think our relationships are generally strong.

Speaker 6

So when perhaps Yes. So, correct, when the 10 years started kind of moving back down, people kind of made the jump and tried to lock in. Is that fair?

Speaker 1

I would agree with that. I would say, I think we were slower to move than most, and I think that speaks to our customer base and the strength of our customer base. And I do think we were slower to move, but when the rates did start to drop and you saw a significant change, I think people looked at opportunity.

Speaker 6

Great. Well, thank you very much and good year.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Thank you. Same to you.

Operator

We have no further questions. So I'll hand the call back to Robert for closing comments.

Speaker 1

Thank you for your interest in our company, and have a great day.

Operator

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.

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Earnings Conference Call
TrustCo Bank Corp NY Q4 2023
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