WNS Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
October 17, 2024

There are 7 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to the WNS Holdings Fiscal 2025 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After management's prepared remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions for how to ask a question will follow at that time. As a reminder, the call is being recorded for replay purposes. Now, I would like to turn the call over to David Mackey, WNS Executive Vice President of Finance and Head of Investor Relations.

Operator

David?

Speaker 1

Thank you, and welcome to our fiscal 2025 Q2 earnings call. With me today on the call, I have WNS' CEO, Keshav Murugesh and WNS' CFO, Arjith Sen. A press release detailing our financial results was issued earlier today. This release is also available on the Investor Relations section of our website at www.wns.com. Today's remarks will focus on the results for the fiscal Q2 ended September 30, 2024.

Speaker 1

Some of the matters that will be discussed on today's call are forward looking. Please keep in mind that these forward looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by such statements. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, those factors set forth in the company's Form 20 F. This document is also available on the company website. During this call, management will reference certain non GAAP financial measures, which we believe provide useful information for investors.

Speaker 1

Reconciliations of these non GAAP financial measures to GAAP results can be found in the press release issued earlier today. Some of the non GAAP financial measures management will discuss are defined as follows. Net revenue is defined as revenue less repair payments. Adjusted operating margin is defined as operating margin excluding amortization of intangible assets, share based compensation, acquisition related expenses or benefits and impairment of goodwill and intangible assets. We are also excluding costs related to our ADS program termination and costs associated with the transition to voluntarily reporting on U.

Speaker 1

S. Domestic issuer forms. Adjusted net income or ANI is defined as profit excluding amortization of intangible assets, share based compensation, acquisition related expenses or benefits, goodwill and intangible asset impairment, ADS program termination costs, the transition to voluntarily reporting on U. S. Domestic issuer forms and all associated taxes.

Speaker 1

These terms will be used throughout the call. I would now like to turn the call over to WNS' CEO, Keshav Murugesh. Keshav?

Speaker 2

Hey, thank you, David. Good morning, everyone. WNS' 2nd quarter revenue and margin were largely in line with company expectations, while EPS came in above forecast based on one time tax benefits of $9,000,000 The company posted net revenue of $310,700,000 representing a year over year decrease of 4.4% on a reported basis and 5.2% on a constant currency basis after adjusting for foreign exchange. Versus the previous quarter, net revenue decreased by 0.6% on a reported basis and by 1.5% on a constant currency basis. Sequentially, the ramp of 4 large deals sold in fiscal Q4 of last year and broad based demand for process automation and cost reduction initiatives in the first half of twenty twenty five largely offset the loss of a large healthcare client and continued reductions in our online travel revenues.

Speaker 2

During the Q2, we added 9 new logos and expanded 41 existing relationships. For the full year, guidance has been lowered to reflect continued reductions in online travel volumes and slower than expected conversion of large deals. While the large deal pipeline continues to expand, the timing of these contract signings as well as associated revenue ramps is proving difficult to predict. As a result, at this time, we have removed the large deal revenue contribution from our fiscal 2025 guidance. Currently, we have more than 20 large deals representing over $500,000,000 in annual contract value spread across all key verticals, services as well as geographies.

Speaker 2

We are making good progress moving these deals through the pipeline and remain confident that WNS is well positioned to win more than our fair share of these opportunities. For the past several quarters, we've been discussing how WNS is increasingly delivering outcomes for our clients at the intersection of domain, digital, as well as data. We continue to make strategic investments in all three of these areas with a focus on developing proprietary technology tools and platforms, forging new strategic relationships, as well as reshaping our global talent. Today, I want to spend a little time highlighting our organizational capabilities and progress in our data, analytics and AI practice. At WNS, we believe the true power of analytics is realized when combined with technology, domain specialization and process expertise.

Speaker 2

As a result, we are focused on ensuring that analytics and technology are integrated into everything we do from customer CX solutions to end to end transformational engagements. Today, WNS boasts a mature, robust and differentiated analytics practice that has been built over the past 20 years through a combination of organic investments as well as strategic acquisitions. At the core of our analytics practice is data management, which is the foundation for all analytics work, including AI as well as generative AI. WNS has built a strong portfolio of data management services and platforms that enable our clients to source, clean, organize, integrate as well as secure their data to unlock its inherent value. This includes expertise in converting unstructured data from sources like e mails, images, text, audio, sensors, as well as social media posts into structured data to create usable, analyzable constructs.

Speaker 2

Our strength in optimizing data quality and managing data as an asset are critical to help deliver actionable insights as well as business outcomes. In addition, our strategic acquisitions over the past several years have helped turbocharge WNS' ability to combine analytics and technology to create reusable confidence, which underpin our services and solutions. These proprietary assets are stitched together with domain and process expertise, adding humans in the loop to create productized services across both horizontals and verticals. Our productized services enable WNS to accelerate speed to market and deploy our solutions at scale, while maintaining the flexibility to co create customized differentiated solutions for each of our clients. To date, WNS has built AI led analytics assets across all key horizontals, including finance and accounting, procurement and supply chain and customer support.

Speaker 2

The company has also created unique industry specific capabilities such as claims management and recovery services for insurance companies, R and D and clinical specialization offerings for big pharma, revenue growth management services for retail and CPG firms and a GenAI led documentation platform for shipping and logistics. These offerings have enabled WNS Analytics to attract some of the world's largest brands as clients, including industry leaders in beverages, biopharma, as well as restaurants. Within our data practice, we have also been investing in the expansion and enhancement of our front office, on-site centric consulting capabilities. And with the pace of change and technological advancement accelerated, clients are increasingly looking for experts to help them assess their current situations and help them co create solutions. Over the past 2 years, WNS has built a global analytics client solutions team of senior resources that is solely focused on helping clients achieve these objectives.

Speaker 2

These senior level consultants have data as well as domain specialist backgrounds and are responsible for helping clients with their data, AI and analytics requirements across strategies, GAAP analysis, roadmaps, change management, governance and processes. The upfront consulting efforts help set the foundation for successful business transformation programs as well as value driven relationships. As a result of these investments, WLS' analytics is experiencing strong growth despite the weak macro environment with our standalone analytics work growing at a 20% CAGR over the past 3 years. And while standalone reported analytics today represents 14% of WNS revenue, it is safe to say that the majority of total company revenues now has analytics embedded as part of the client solution and all of the large deals in our pipeline have technology enabled analytics as a critical component of our value proposition. WNS' solid growth and expanding capabilities in data, analytics and AI are increasingly being recognized by the analyst and the advisor community.

Speaker 2

We've now been named the market leader by HFS in analytics, AI, data platforms and automation services, a star performer for analytics business process services by Everest and a leader in data science services by Analytics India Magazine and an AI Game Changer by NASSCOM. The company also received 7 TV Awards for its AI, Machine Learning and Gen AI Solutions and an AI Excellence Award from Business Intelligence Group for our GenAI capabilities. As the analysts and advisors remain

Operator

important

Speaker 2

gatekeepers to many client initiatives, This positive recognition is critical to ensuring that WNS remains top of the mind for outsourcing opportunities. In summary, by combining the power of data, digital as well as domain, today WNS is able to deliver impactful business outcomes for our clients, including generating actionable insights to improve decision making, reducing business risk, enhancing customer experience and enabling innovation and competitive differentiation. With respect to our fiscal 2025 guidance, while we remain comfortable in our ability to close some of the large opportunities, given their uncertain timing, we have removed the large deal revenue contribution from our updated projections. Guidance also assumes a further reduction in OTA revenues in the second half of the year based on current volume trends. And despite these challenges, we are comfortable in our ability to sequentially grow revenues in fiscal Q3 as well as Q4, providing solid momentum exiting the year.

Speaker 2

Any second half large deal signings should provide some incremental revenue this year, but more importantly, will provide enhanced visibility to our revenue acceleration in fiscal 2026. WNS remains committed to continuing our investments in domain expertise, data and analytics and technology enabled offerings leveraging AI and GenAI to ensure our ability to deliver long term profitable growth and sustainable shareholder value. I would now like to turn the call over to our CFO, Arunjit Sen, to further discuss our results as well as outlook. Arunjit? Thank you, Keshav.

Speaker 2

In the fiscal second quarter, WSS' net revenue came in at $310,700,000 down 4.4% from $325,000,000 posted in the same quarter of last year and down 5.2% on a constant currency basis. Sequentially, net revenue decreased by 0.6% on a reported basis and 1.5% constant currency. The quarter over quarter revenue decline was driven by the loss of a large healthcare client, volume reductions in online travel and ongoing weakness in discretionary project based revenues. These revenue headwinds were partially offset by the ramp of a large deals close in Q4 and healthy demand for digitization and cost reduction focused initiatives. In fact, excluding the large healthcare client clause, each of our verticals posted sequential growth this quarter.

Speaker 2

In Q2, Doublelift recorded $1,200,000 of short term high margin revenue. Adjusted operating margin in Q2 was 18.6% as compared to 21.5% last year and 18.4% last quarter. Year over year, adjusted operating margins decreased as a result of lower revenue and employee utilization, increased investments in infrastructure and sales

Speaker 3

and higher SG and

Speaker 2

A levels resulting from $2,100,000 of expense provision reversals for performance incentives and bad debt in Q2 of last year. These headwinds were partially offset by favorable currency movements. Sequentially, margin improvement was driven by favorable currency movements. The company's net other expense was $1,400,000,000 of net expense in the 2nd quarter as compared to $100,000 of net expense in Q2 of fiscal 2024 and $300,000 of net expense last quarter. Both year over year and sequentially, the unfavorable variance is result of higher debt levels and lower cash balances, driven primarily by a share repurchase.

Speaker 2

WNS' effective tax rate for Q2 came in at 8.5% as compared to 22% last year and 23.1% in the prior quarter. The Q2 tax rate reduced by almost $9,000,000 primarily due to one time tax benefits associated with the reversal of a deferred tax liability on intangibles. Both year over year and sequentially, other changes in the effective tax rate were driven by our geographical profit mix and the percentage of work delivered from tax incentive facilities. The company's adjusted net income for Q2 was $51,500,000 compared with $54,400,000 in the same quarter of fiscal 2024 $44,000,000 last quarter. Adjusted diluted earnings were $1.13 per share in Q2, up from $1.10 in the Q2 of last year and from $0.93 last quarter.

Speaker 2

As of September 30, 2024, double balances in cash and investments totaled $221,500,000 and the company had $262,800,000 in debt. In the 2nd quarter, WS generated $43,600,000 of cash from operating activities, incurred $12,700,000 in capital expenditures and paid debt repayments of $43,000,000 The company also repurchased 1,156,000 shares of stock at an average price of $56.61 which impacted Q2 cash by $71,700,000 Through the first half of fiscal twenty twenty five, WL has repurchased 2,800,000 shares of stock at an average price of $53.46 and a total cost of $149,700,000 DSO in the 2nd quarter came in at 38 days as compared to 35 days reported in Q2 of last year and 36 days last quarter. With respect to other key operating metrics, headcount at the end of 2nd quarter was 62,951 and our attrition rate was 34% as compared to 30% reported in Q2 of last year and 34% in the previous quarter. We expect attrition to average in the low to mid-thirty percent range, but the rates could remain volatile quarter to quarter. Build seat capacity at the end of Q2 increased to 43,108 and Wdesk averaged 72% work from office during the quarter.

Speaker 2

In our press release issued earlier today, Doublelift provided our revised full year guidance for fiscal 2025. Based on the company's current visibility levels, we expect net revenue to be in the range of $1,250,000,000 to $1,296,000,000 representing a year over year range of minus 3% to plus 1% on a reported basis. On a constant currency basis, the guidance ranges from minus 4% to 0%. As Keshav mentioned, our fiscal 2025 guidance assumes no revenue contribution from the large yield pipeline, ongoing reductions in online travel volumes and no improvement in discretionary project spend. Guidance also excludes short term revenues and any incremental revenue from a large insurance captive.

Speaker 2

Top line projections assume an average British pound to U. S. Dollar rate of 1.31 for the remainder of the fiscal year. Full year adjusted net income for fiscal 2025 is expected to be in the range of $190,000,000 to $200,000,000 based on an INR83.5 to U. S.

Speaker 2

Dollar exchange for the remainder of fiscal 2025. This implies adjusted EPS of $4.13 to $4.35 assuming a diluted share count of approximately 46,000,000 shares. With respect to capital expenditures, WF currently expects our requirements for fiscal 2025 to be up to $65,000,000 We will now open the call for questions. Operator?

Operator

Thank you. First question coming from the line of Neves Vinson with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Speaker 3

Hi, guys. Thanks for the question. I wanted to delve a little more into the large deal pipeline and win rates. So you had the 4 large deals in 4Q of last year, 1 large deal in 1Q, it sounds like none this quarter. At the same time, can you talk about how the large deal pipeline is at record levels?

Speaker 3

So I'm just hoping for a little more clarity on the lower visibility called out versus maybe realizing lower win rates than what you've seen historically. Going to the comments from last quarter, I think you said that the large deal wins baked into the prior guide would imply up a low average win rate in the pipeline. So just trying to get a sense of how much the change in guide is being driven by general demand trends versus maybe increased pressure on the competitive or pricing side of things?

Speaker 2

Okay. I think I'll take that. So first of all, I must mention, once again, want to underline the fact that the overall pipeline for sale continues to be very strong and at record levels across most of our businesses. The impact that we spoke about for H2 is essentially because of what I would call the perfect storm around 2 or 3 specific areas that were called out in the prepared remarks. Actually, at this point in time, we continue to have a very strong pipeline of large deals.

Speaker 2

And let me just explain how these things are progressing. Today, I would say that we have almost more than 25 plus large deals, which are 10,000,000 plus in terms of ACV. And many of these are very strategic in nature. They need very strong involvement both sides of the house, our side as well as the client side. And what happens in many of these deals, which we are now understanding better is that as the client gets much more comfortable with who they're interacting with in WNS, what actually happens is their focus is built on the comfort around our understanding of their business domains very well.

Speaker 2

They definitely want to see much more attention from the top of the house, which means I need to be personally involved in many of these deals. Many of these deals are focused not just on regular transformation or cost leadership for the client, but a lot of it is focused around revenue accretion, which means involvement of many more layers inside the client side. Want to also mention that this also means a very strong partnership model between both sides. And it also means in a positive way that in many of these deals, we've been able to move the narrative away from procurement, which is very critical for WNS in terms of making sure that over a period of time, these ultimately resulted in a win win for both sides and not driven by a procurement approach to these programs. All these deals in terms of size, complexity, as well as in the nature are very, very strategic.

Speaker 2

And it also by definition means more involvement from an executive committee on the other side, often boards getting involved in the decision on the other side, board from WNS' side also getting involved in terms of taking some of these decisions.

Speaker 4

And I think that

Speaker 2

is the mistake that we made when we baked some of this revenue into our guidance. If you look at how we actually have made progress, the number of deals, size of deals and the volumes now being projected by some of these prospects are even higher than what we saw last time. I mean, we just guided we just mentioned that we have almost $500,000,000 of ACV in some of these deals. But the reality is it is taking a little longer and we probably assume that based on the fact that we signed some of those deals in 4th quarter something in Q1 that the same progress and signings would continue in Q2. What we have only done at this point in time is being more conservative in terms of taking that revenue out of the potential pipeline for the rest of the year because we understand that even when we close this during Q3 or Q4 or wherever, the potential for revenue during this year will be minimal, but potential for revenue in the next years will be high.

Speaker 2

I want to end again by saying these deals are very, very critical for WNS. They're changing the game for us for the long term and we believe super confident about the fact that the $1,000,000 to $3,000,000 deals that we're continuously winning as well as some of these deals as they win will build tremendous comfort, confidence in terms of long term. And some of it is also being reflected in terms of the headcount that you may have seen on our books.

Speaker 1

And just to add to that real quick, Nate, I think the other thing to touch specifically on the question you asked about win rate, the removal of the large deal pipeline has nothing to do with win rate, right? I think we still believe we're extremely well positioned in these opportunities. I think the removal of the large deal pipeline is about timing and not relative to our expectations about the number of deals that we can win or how we're positioned within these deals.

Speaker 3

Yes, that's great to hear on the win rates. And I think it was a prudent thing to take those out of the guide. So that's appreciated. I guess for the follow-up, maybe taking a step back, when I think about the history of WNS, you've obviously been able to differentiate yourself with history of strong execution, consistent double digit organic growth and then being able to set expectations so that you can kind of beat and raise as you move

Speaker 5

to the fiscal year. Obviously, we're in

Speaker 3

the midst of a really weak macro and still a lot of uncertainty out there. But maybe taking a step back, you touched on this in your last answer, but maybe can you talk a little bit more about your confidence in your ability to return to that historical growth profile and execution as we move into fiscal 'twenty six and beyond? I think last call you mentioned that you were well set up for next fiscal year, but obviously a ton of puts and takes impacting the business right now. So I think it would just be helpful to hear your thoughts on the business' ability to get back to that strength you've demonstrated historically.

Speaker 2

Yes. Again, we are super confident about our ability to get back to strong growth rates. Once again, I must mention that what we have experienced this year are very specific client related or specific issues that we have had to call out for this year, nothing to do with the demand trends, nothing to do with the tailwinds we are seeing in the industry. In fact, we would expect that with all the uncertainty being seen outside, we would only benefit being one of the legacy players and transformational kind of players in the industry. Again, I must mention that most clients are looking for partners who come in with very strong understanding of digital data and domain that we spoke about, but most of the deals are also being led by technology, analytics, AI, in some cases, generative AI as well.

Speaker 2

All areas that WNS has traditionally invested in and continues to invest very strongly in. Again, I must say that we have already got a lot of confidence in terms of revenue momentum for Q3 as well as Q4 coming back, right, in terms of sequential growth. And as we win some of these other deals, the large deals as well as the traditional bread and butter $1,300,000,000 or $1,500,000,000 deals, we believe that we are at probably among the at the lowest end of or the worst is now behind us in terms of where we could be. And the future stage is one of solid growth as well as profitability.

Speaker 1

And just to add a little color to that, Nate, I think as was mentioned in the prepared remarks, the underlying growth in Q2 was extremely healthy.

Speaker 2

I mean, if you

Speaker 3

take out the large healthcare client loss,

Speaker 1

we grew in extremely healthy. I mean, if you take out the large healthcare client loss, we grew in excess of 3% sequentially in Q2. The guidance, despite removing the large deal pipelines, we're looking at $320,000,000 in Q3, which represents a 3% sequential growth from Q2. And obviously, if you do the math to what's left for Q4, you're looking at a 2% to 3% sequential growth from Q3 to Q4. So the confidence in returning to double growth, double digit growth comes from the 3% sequential growth rate that we're now posting despite not having the momentum from the large deal pipeline.

Speaker 3

I appreciate the color and you get to hear about the long term confidence. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Nate.

Operator

Thank you. And our next question coming from the line of Bryan Bergin with Citicallen. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Hi. Thanks for taking the question. Can you comment on the OTA side of the equation here? How much was this pressure a result of some of the guidance reduction as well?

Speaker 1

Sure. So let me take that. When you look at the guidance reduction for the full year, we're looking at about a 1% to 2% impact from the Q2 reduction in OTA and our expectation of continued volume reductions in the back half of the year. So again, I think we've been we've tried to be conservative here about our expectations for the sector. And we've discussed at length over the last several quarters, the reasons for the challenges that we've had in the OTA sector, whether that's automation, whether that's strategy change, whether that's customer specific challenges within the OTA space and their inability to forecast their volumes and predict accordingly.

Speaker 1

So I think we've taken a very conservative approach to the OTA space, but I also want to reiterate some of the messages that we brought last quarter, which is that if we can't be impactful to the client, if we can't create value for the customer and if the client is not willing to recognize the value that we're delivering, then that's not a business that we want to be in, right. So we're not going to play in low end commoditized types of work. And if the client is taking a commoditized view of these services and solutions, then we're going to be getting out of it.

Speaker 2

Yes. But I must just add one element there, Dave, which is while that is our stated objective and we are having lots of interesting discussions with the client and the clients in the sector generally. We also realize that all of them are also understanding that business model transformation for themselves also is going to be critical in order to survive the onslaught of what's happening in the market for them long term. And therefore, I must say, there are also lots of healthy discussions happening between both sides in terms of things that we can do for them that go well beyond some of the traditional services that may have got commoditized and which we are walking away from, but allows us to bring the rest of the power of WNS in, in terms of digital data domain analytics and take them into higher value kind of services. And so we'll have a watchman space in terms of how that develops.

Speaker 1

Suffice to say, Brian, that our OOT year revenues in the Q2 were now below 4% of total company.

Speaker 5

Okay. Okay. And then as it relates to the just the headcount growth sequentially, can you just comment where are you seeing that growth? What's attributing to that expansion?

Speaker 6

Yes. So let me

Speaker 2

take that, Bazarajid. So look, I think Dave talked about it. If you pair out the large Celtic life loss, you will see that there is growth that's coming in Q2. Our guidance also implies a 2% to 3% sequential growth year on year. So the hiring for that growth, we already started hiring and the headcount increase actually cements our view of the pipeline and the growth momentum that we are anticipating in Q3 and Q4.

Speaker 2

So that we've already started the hiring. We are expecting the increase in revenue to happen in Q3 and Q4. And our business requires us to hire 90 to 128 to the advance for us to ramp and train the employees that some of that is varying in the higher numbers that you are seeing in Q2.

Speaker 1

I think the other thing that's embedded and Arun, you touched on it a little bit is, if you'll recall the large healthcare client that we lost, what was a technology heavy service offering, right? So when you look at kind of how that works its way through our sectors and things like that, what you'll see is that while it was very high revenue for us, the number of employees supporting that service offering were relatively low. So part of what you've seen here is that as we replace the healthcare loss client revenue with more traditional types of W and S revenues, it's going to take more people to backfill that headcount.

Speaker 5

Got it. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And our next question coming from the line of Liam Tandon with Needham and Company. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Thank you. Good morning, Keshav and Dave. I wanted to just get a better grasp on the headwinds that you called out. Could you just walk through the timing when these headwinds will start to abate? In other words, when do we get to a model when it's a clean slate?

Speaker 5

We can see that growth start to show up, especially as these big deals start to ramp up potentially in a few quarters based on some of your comments.

Speaker 1

Yes. Look, I think we've talked about in general mine, three meaningful headwinds, right, over the last year, year and a half. One is the large healthcare client loss. One is the shift from on-site to offshore of 1 of our large Internet based clients and the other has been the OTA volumes. Obviously, this quarter was the ramp down of the large healthcare client.

Speaker 1

So I guess depending on whether you're looking at this on a sequential basis or a year over year basis, We can have different discussions about kind of the headwinds, but on a sequential basis at any rate, the vast majority of this will have abated by Q3. So we don't have a sequential impact from Q2 to Q3 from the large healthcare client. We don't have a sequential impact from Q2 to Q3 from the Internet client moving offshore and we have a modest expected headwind within the OTA volumes.

Speaker 5

Got it. That clears it up. And then just as a follow-up, I wanted to ask about margin expectations. What is embedded in the guide in the back half? Maybe you could walk through gross margins and the operating margins.

Speaker 5

Just trying to get a sense if you're going to be a little bit more fixated on expense management in the face of maybe the slower ramp of those larger deals. Just any color on the margin trajectory in the back half and your expectations to get back to that low 20s EBIT margin longer term as revenue starts to come through?

Speaker 1

Yes. I think, Mike, our expectation is that we're going to get back into the low 20s by the Q4 and that we will see margin expansion on the adjusted operating margin line in both Q3 and Q4. We're probably looking in the 19% to 20% range for adjusted operating margins for the full year. And that's really at the end of the day because we've removed the revenues associated with the large deals. But the investments that we've made in the business, whether that's into expanding our capabilities or building out our infrastructure, which we need to continue to do, we're not going to scale back on that.

Speaker 1

The bottom line is, we believe in the long term health. We see the momentum in the business. We need to be planning for the future. So those investments are not going to be scaled back. The infrastructure spend and the build of our global capability is not going to be scaled back.

Speaker 1

And if you look at the real reason that we've got a little bit of margin pressure on a year over year basis, it's an expense coverage issue. At the end of the day, our SG and A rate is going to run a little bit higher this year because it doesn't make sense to take those numbers down for 2 quarters and then build them back up starting in the Q1 of next fiscal. So at this point in time, we are going to see steady margin expansion through the back half of the year. But the reality is the full year margins are going to be a little bit below where we were last year.

Speaker 2

Yes, Mike, in fact, I'll just mention one thing. This is now all about growth and not just about margin now. Our focus now is we believe that the worst is now going to be behind us over the next few weeks, months, quarters based on all that we have announced. We believe that we have a very, very strong pipeline. We believe that we have to come back in terms of overall growth rates and that's where we are focused and are investing in.

Speaker 2

And we are confident that these investments that we are making in all the core areas, including sales and marketing, will help us close deals and come back to the growth rates that we have traditionally delivered to the market. And just to add the other question on gross margins. And if you see our gross margins, our gross margins are actually fairly flat versus last year. And that gives us confidence that our underlying business continues to remain profitable, while we continue to invest in some of the sales investments that we have and Keshav talked about. So fundamentally, business continues to be profitable.

Speaker 2

We have invested in our sales and marketing. And as the growth comes back, operating margin will save growth.

Speaker 5

That's great color. Thank you all.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Matt. Thank you, Matt.

Operator

Thank you. And our next question question coming from the line of Puneet Jain with JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Keshav, could you double click on clients' behavior as it relates to incorporating AI or analytics in their processes? Is their behavior different across new versus existing clients?

Speaker 4

Or are there any verticals where you're seeing demand stronger than others? And also you previously mentioned generating 5% of revenue from Gen AI this year. Is that still on track given some of like the large deal contribution that seems like have been pushed out?

Speaker 2

Yes. Puneet, that's an excellent question. So just in terms of behavior, as you would expect, based on the stress a client is facing or the opportunity that they're seeing in the market, the different verticals obviously are behaving slightly differently. We spent a lot of time talking about OTA and things like that. And I don't want to go down that part of explaining that.

Speaker 2

But generally, if you look at it, everyone has understood very well that companies like WNS understand the domain side very well, has invested so much in digital and analytics. And AI has been around for a while. Our ability to incisively use AI to deliver better outcomes for our clients has now got accelerated or enabled, I would say, over the last possibly 18 months or so, because there's much greater belief in that model. Generative AI is something that everyone understands can be something that can make client models much smarter, can help them with their cost challenges, can help them with their transformation agenda. And therefore, over the past so many quarters, our focus has been on, first, educating clients about how we can help them with this model, about how they don't have to invest in licenses in order to get the benefits of some of these models, and then over a period of time, help them pinpoint which are the processes that could actually benefit from some of these business model changes for them.

Speaker 2

So I think at this point in time, what we're seeing is people now realize that this is one more change in technology and model that is going to help them in terms of transformation, transforming their agenda, being more relevant to their end customers, doing things smarter, better, faster, more impactful manner, so to speak. And therefore, to do that, as a client, you need to work with a provider or a partner who really is an extension of their enterprise, who understands your domain, understands your history, understands your strategy, understands where you want to be over a period of time and what are the growth levers for you. And that is where WNS scores each and every time, right? So 1st and foremost, I would say that, that is a huge advantage that we have because of the sheer knowledge of our customers' businesses, the core verticals, the transformation agenda and our points of view on how different models are changing, right? That's the first thing.

Speaker 2

The second thing is, we spoke about generative AI. We are now very focused after educating many of these customers in terms of leading them down specific parts now, right, to help them understand that these offerings that we bring to the table will make them not only more efficient, but also help transform their business models. And so what's actually happening is, it is allowing them to focus much more on the external, but allowing us to manage the rest for them. Coming to large deals, obviously, when you interact with a new customer and you're looking at a completely different business model where you moved away from procurement and interacting at the top of the house on the other side, when you go into this discussion, you bring all the armory that you have to the fore in order to create a transform business model as a result of which it's a CEO led initiative both sides. And therefore, all the kind of engines that we bring to the table are really available upfront and center in terms of some of these new deals.

Speaker 2

At the same time, this thinking is also going into expansion within our existing clients. So one can see that while the earlier processes took a little longer, at this point in time, expansions around existing clients is all being focused on leveraging some of these models. And any of the large deals now have a combination of all of this upfront and center. And that's the reason why probably some of these closures take a little longer because it means significant amount of disruption even for the client, right? Acceptance of this disruption and change, validating all the assumptions and making sure that it's a handshake at the top of the house between WNS and the client, right.

Speaker 2

So it's a significant change and we expect therefore that as we start winning some of these models, this will be the model of the future that will drive WNS' growth momentum for the long

Speaker 4

Got it. And is 5% still like a reachable target?

Speaker 1

Yes, I think it absolutely is. As Keshav mentioned, the Gen AI revenues and the implementation are not specific to just new initiatives, while it's certainly a part of almost all of the new initiatives and I would say all of the new initiatives. A lot of what we're doing with Gen AI is expansion opportunities within our existing customer base and changing how we're operating within some of our existing customers. So that contribution is not all just kind of gross growth. It's also changing some of what we're doing for existing clients as well and delivering enhanced value to those customers.

Speaker 1

So I think that 5% target for the year is still good.

Speaker 4

Got it. And then, Dave, like you were very helpful in identifying like the 3 issues and sharing like the timing of those. As we think about next year, like can you quantify like the year on year impact we should expect from those 3 headwinds or any other puts and takes that you should consider for next year? I can imagine like these headwinds will still have impact on year on year basis in the first half of last year.

Speaker 1

Look, I mean, I think the simple math Puneet is we know that the healthcare client is going to impact 3 of the 4 quarters for this year. So we have 1 quarter of impact next fiscal year. So you can expect roughly 1% on a year over year basis from the large health care client. The OTA space for the full year is going to end up costing us around 3%, 3.5% of revenue. So if you just take a midyear convention for that, I think you're looking at roughly 1.5 percent to 2% for next year.

Speaker 1

So you're looking at a 3% lag, if you will, from the ramp downs in this fiscal that bleed into fiscal 'twenty six.

Speaker 4

And is there any other headwind that we should consider as we think about next year?

Speaker 1

Not at this time. Other than before I say not at this time, other than the standard headwinds that we have in our business around productivity and projects and expectations of known ramp downs. So I think that normal 10% to 11% is still in play.

Speaker 4

Yes, of course. Yes. I meant like any other unusual headwinds. So thanks for clarifying. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1

No.

Operator

Thank you. And our next question coming from the line of Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hi, guys. This is Jesse Wilson on for Maggie. Thanks for taking our questions. So I understand your comments on visibility. So maybe can you take a step back and reflect on how you feel about some of the changes you've made in the sales force?

Speaker 6

How long do you think it'll take some of these leaders to ramp up? And is the new model pulling you into conversations with a wider range of C Suite execs?

Speaker 1

Yes, let me take this and then Keshav can kind of add some color here. But yes, I think our expectations around the contributions from these senior level sales associates, sales resources that we've hired, the Chief Growth Officers across all of our verticals are being largely met, right? I think that's this is how that large deal pipeline has been curated to have 20 plus deals with $500,000,000 plus of ACV is something that we're extremely excited about. It's the timing and the closure that becomes an issue, but we've built that pipeline over the last 18 months. I think we remain well positioned in a lot of those opportunities.

Speaker 1

They're doing what they're supposed to do. They're getting Keshav involved in these deals where he needs to be involved, where we need that CEO to CEO connect. And we still feel good about the investments that we've made into this new channel and the progress that we've made. Obviously, we would love to have signed 3 more large deals this quarter and have not had to adjust guidance. But we also, I think, recognize that given the size, given the complexity and the scope of these deals that they're going to be spotty, right?

Speaker 1

That it's going to be 3 in 1 quarter and nothing for 2 quarters. And we just don't have a lot of control over that. We don't have a lot of visibility to when they're going to hit. But I think as long as we keep moving them through the pipeline the way we have and in connecting with the client at the right levels, we feel good about

Speaker 2

our ability to win more than our fair share of these opportunities. Yes. And I'll just mention that the pressure on performance with our sales team is very, very high. And I think the tenure of these people is more than 12 months at this point in time. So our focus really is on the productivity of these people monitoring constantly, making sure that they are educated in terms of the pivot that is taking place at the company in terms of data, digital domain and transformation and they are being able to engage prospects and clients with the right compositions.

Speaker 2

So at this point in time, we believe that almost 65% to 70% of the sales force is actually productive in the sense that we want them to be at. And normally in sales, anything above 50% or 60% is actually a decent track record. I must mention that as well. But at the same time, because we want to make sure that our people are constantly filling the pipeline with those $1,000,000,000 to $5,000,000,000 deals, look, I want to also once again underline, large deals alone does not a company make, right? We need to constantly fill the pipeline with the bread and butter deals, which are $1,000,000 to $5,000,000 And many of this over a period of time become large deals and large relationships for us.

Speaker 2

So our focus in terms of making sure we have the right people bringing those deals and the rest of the people focusing on the large deals is very intense. I think we have the right energy behind it. There's a huge excitement in the company in terms of what's happening there. There's great excitement in the company in terms of the new capabilities that are being built, how these deals are being caught in terms of global delivery locations and how all of this together is creating magic for the company.

Speaker 6

Got it. I understand. That's helpful. For my follow-up, I saw in guidance that share count is higher by, I think, 100,000 shares from last time. So how much do you have left under the share repurchase program?

Speaker 6

And how come that ticked up by $100,000

Speaker 1

Yes. I think so I'm sorry, go ahead. Go ahead, Arjun.

Speaker 2

Okay. So yes, so it's coming slightly highly because we've had some exercises in the last quarter. But from a but we have a pool of people still left. At this point in time, we are looking at using our capital for strategic growth, augmentation of all the capabilities that Keshav talked about. We are also looking out for we are also looking at strategic M and A opportunities.

Speaker 2

But at the end of the fiscal, right, if you are not able to find effective utilization of this cash, we might consider doing an aggressive repurchase. But at this point, the focus is driving more towards strategic growth.

Speaker 1

And just to kind of close the loop on the numbers, we've repurchased 2 point 8,000,000 shares in the first half of the year, which is obviously quite aggressive. We have another $1,300,000 left on the authorization that was done back in May.

Speaker 6

Got it. Thank you all. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. And at this time, we have no further questions in the Q and A queue. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you all for your participation and you may now

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Earnings Conference Call
WNS Q2 2025
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