NYSE:DAC Danaos Q1 2024 Earnings Report $85.80 +0.52 (+0.60%) Closing price 06/11/2025 03:59 PM EasternExtended Trading$85.70 -0.11 (-0.12%) As of 04:00 AM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. ProfileEarnings HistoryForecast Danaos EPS ResultsActual EPS$7.15Consensus EPS $7.71Beat/MissMissed by -$0.56One Year Ago EPS$7.14Danaos Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$253.45 millionExpected RevenueN/ABeat/MissN/AYoY Revenue GrowthN/ADanaos Announcement DetailsQuarterQ1 2024Date5/28/2024TimeBefore Market OpensConference Call DateTuesday, May 28, 2024Conference Call Time9:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsDanaos' Q2 2025 earnings is scheduled for Monday, August 4, 2025, with a conference call scheduled on Tuesday, August 5, 2025 at 9:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Conference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by Danaos Q1 2024 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrMay 28, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 4 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Danaos Corporation Conference Call to discuss the Financial Results for the 3 months ended March 31, 2024. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. Hosting the call today is Doctor. John Coustas, Chief Executive Officer of Danaos Corporation and Mr. Evangelos Hatzis, Chief Financial Officer of Danaos Corporation. Operator00:00:26Doctor. Coustas and Mr. Hatsis will be making some introductory comments, Then we will open the call to a question and answer session. Speaker 100:00:37Thank you, operator, and good morning to everyone and thank you for joining us today. Before we begin, I quickly want to remind everyone that management's remarks this morning may contain certain forward looking statements and that actual results could differ materially from those projected today. These forward looking statements are made as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update them. Factors that might affect future results are discussed in our filings with the SEC, and we encourage you to review these detailed Safe Harbor and Risk Factor disclosures. Please also note that where we feel appropriate, we will continue to refer to non GAAP financial measures such as EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income, time charter equivalent revenues and time charter equivalent dollars per day to evaluate our business. Speaker 100:01:30Reconciliations of non GAAP financial measures to GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release and accompanying materials. With that, let me now turn the call over to Doctor. John Coustas, who will provide the broad overview of the quarter. John? Speaker 200:01:46Thank you, Evangelos. Good morning and thank you for joining today's call to discuss our results for Q1 of 2024. The container market continued to strengthen in the Q1 of 2024, a trend that has continued into the Q2. Both charter and box rates are gaining momentum, and we have completed all necessary re chartering activity in excess of our internal forecasts. The renewed optimism in the market extends to the longer term view of the charterers who are making charter commitments on newbuilding vessels with deliveries scheduled from 2025 through end of 2027. Speaker 200:02:27Following the recent placement of an order for an additional 28,250 TEU vessels for 2027 delivery, our newbuilding order book currently consists of 14 vessels totaling 108,000 TEU, 2 of which have already been delivered to us. More importantly, we have now secured multiyear chartering agreements for all our vessels on order, while we have also extended charters of certain existing vessels. As a result of this chartering activity over the past 3 months, we have added $423,000,000 to our contracted revenue backlog that today stands at $2,500,000,000 with an average charter duration of 2.9 years. All the vessels in our newbuilding order book are methanol ready, future proofing a portion of our fleet on green fuel usage. We have also arranged very conservative financing for the first 8 newbuildings at competitive rates to ensure that we are able to maintain a strong liquidity profile to support continued opportunistic fleet expansion. Speaker 200:03:37In our drybulk vessels segment, we've added an additional Capesize to our fleet, increasing our fleet to 10 vessels in total. We are continuing to explore ways to increase our exposure to this market. Of the economies around the world are performing relatively well and are displaying no signs of recession. The biggest risk to our market outlook comes from trade hurdles that various countries are putting in place in the form of tariffs and trade restrictions on energy as well as manufactured goods. Despite the positive short term impacts of these practices, we believe that will ultimately result in trade contraction in the longer term. Speaker 200:04:37In the meantime, our strategy has continued to result in consistent, solid results. We will continue to explore growth opportunities while ensuring the longevity of our investments for the benefit of our shareholders. With that, I'll hand the call over back to Evangelos who will take you through the financials for the quarter. Evangelos? Speaker 100:04:55Thank you, John, and again, good morning to everyone. I will briefly review the results for the quarter and then open the call to Q and A. This quarter, we are reporting adjusted EPS of $7.15 per share or adjusted net income of $140,000,000 compared to adjusted EPS of $7.14 per share or $145,300,000 for the Q1 of 2023. This $5,300,000 decrease in adjusted net income between the two quarters is the result of a $22,200,000 increase in total operating costs, mainly due to the recognition during the current quarter of voyage costs related to voyage charters of our drybulk Capesize fleet, partially offset by a $9,800,000 increase in operating revenues, a $3,700,000 improvement in net finance costs, mainly driven by the significant deleveraging of the balance sheet and a $3,400,000 net improvement on investments. Vessel operating costs increased by $2,500,000 to $43,100,000 in the current quarter from $40,600,000 in the Q1 of 2023 as a result of the increase in the average number of vessels in our fleet. Speaker 100:06:23While our daily operating costs decreased to $6,493 per day for the current quarter from $6,807 per day in the corresponding Q1 of 2023. Our operating costs continue to remain among the most competitive in the industry. G and A expenses increased by $3,400,000 to $10,200,000 in the current quarter compared to $6,800,000 in the Q1 of 2023, mainly due to an increase in stock based non cash costs. Interest expense, excluding finance costs amortization, decreased by $3,400,000 dollars to $2,600,000 in the current quarter compared to $6,000,000 in the Q1 of 2023. The decrease in interest expense is the combined result of a $1,000,000 decrease because of lower average indebtedness by approximately $100,000,000 between the two periods, partially offset by an increase in the cost of debt service by approximately 60 basis points as a result of rising interest rates. Speaker 100:07:40We also had a $2,400,000 decrease in interest expense due to capitalization of interest on our vessels under construction. At the same time, interest income came in at $2,900,000 which is higher than the $2,600,000 interest expense for the current quarter, excluding amortization of finance costs. Adjusted EBITDA decreased by 1% to $1,800,000 to $177,200,000 in the current quarter from $179,000,000 in the Q1 of 2023 for reasons that have already been outlined earlier on this call. We also encourage you to review our updated investor presentation that has been posted on our website as well as subsequent events disclosures. Let me summarize a few of the highlights. Speaker 100:08:31Following recent chartering activity, our contracted cash revenue backlog remains strong and actually has increased to 2,500,000,000 dollars with a 2.9 year average charter duration, while contract coverage is up 99% for 2024 69% for 2025. That is coverage in terms of operating days. Our investor presentations have analytical disclosures on our contracted charter book. As of March 31, our net debt is now down to $134,300,000 and obviously in the current interest rate environment this position shifts from high interest costs. Additionally, the company's net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio came in at 0.19 times, while 50 out of our 76 vessels are currently unencumbered and debt free. Speaker 100:09:35Finally, as of the end of Q1, cash was at $324,000,000 while total liquidity including availability under our revolving credit facility and valuation of marketable securities stood at $748,000,000 giving us ample flexibility to pursue accretive capital deployment opportunities. With that, I would like to thank you for listening to this first part of our call. Operator, we are now ready to open the call to Q and A. Operator00:10:32The first question comes from Omar Khachta at Jefferies. Speaker 300:10:37Thank you. Hi, John and Evangelos. Good afternoon. Hi, Omar. Speaker 200:10:40Hi, Omar. Speaker 300:10:42Hi. Good. No, it looks like the business is coming along quite nicely here and quite a bit of a turnaround over the past several months. You obviously had the backlog and now it's gotten bigger. I think now that you've secured all 14 new buildings, including the latest orders from February March, you can the market's clearly gotten much stronger. Speaker 300:11:04You're now pretty much contracted for all of 24. You've got some open capacity in 2025. How would you characterize liner's interest today in securing those ships that open up in 'twenty five? Obviously, there's some forward fixing happening, especially as you've been able to fix the 27 delivery new buildings. But what about on the water ships? Speaker 300:11:24What's the appetite look like from your lens for ships that open up in 2025? Speaker 200:11:30Well, the appetite is pretty strong. We are already, let's say, negotiating 25 deliveries. I mean, ships that we have opened in 25. It's there is no doubt that part of the strength of the market has to do with the Suez Canal situation. This is not something that will last forever. Speaker 200:12:08But at least the way things look like, it will continue for, let's say, at least 2024. And overall, the whole combination of slowing speeds on some of the ships and the continued relative strength of trade and economies, they have led really to a situation of pretty solid demand. Speaker 300:12:48Yes. Thank you. And I guess with that backdrop and you mentioned it's definitely for 24, what's the interest from your side on additional new buildings given that you've been able to order ships and shortly thereafter get them contracted? And so what's your appetite for new buildings? And also maybe just kind of a perhaps qualitative question on those new buildings. Speaker 300:13:11Do you think it's more of the the methanol ready component that drove the charter interest in securing those well ahead of time or simply just a desire for liners to have ships that deep Speaker 200:13:24out? No, it's the methanol component is really irrelevant once there is no green methanol around. So and doesn't look it's going to be available before, let's say, 2,030, which is more or less the time horizon of, let's say, our charters. On the other hand, what is definitely important is that all these new vessels, which are Tier 3 and are much more economical than existing vessels is the main driving factor that will help charterers to meet environmental regulations and, on the other hand, reduce their costs through the lower fuel consumption. Speaker 300:14:26Yes. And maybe just thanks for that, John. Just a final one just on the dry bulk business. That investment has been very decent, I would say. You bought the 10 ks quite well. Speaker 300:14:39And just looking at sale and purchase values, you're up quite a bit nicely on that. What do you think is next for this business? You've got the 10 ships. Is it do you want to operate, harvest the cash flow, build it further or do you think monetizing it makes sense? Any sort of sense of how you think about that business? Speaker 200:15:06We definitely are here to stay in drybulk. We would like to have another, let's say, leg in the company. The only thing with drybulk is that it's a sector which is highly sensitive to cost. And if you go and commit today into very expensive new buildings, I'm not sure exactly how you're going to pay back. And I'm saying that because it's the fuel consumption on a Capesize today, let's say, the way that they are kind slow steaming is in the region of, let's say, around 30 tons per day, which is, of course, it's important, but it's nothing like the 70 or 80 tons that a medium sized container ship is consuming. Speaker 200:16:16So this gives, of course, to the container ship a much greater sensitivity to the cost of fuel and carbon eventually. In the bulk market, things are a bit more subdued, which, of course, is going to make a difference. But on the other hand, with high interest rates and high capital costs, it's hard to make let's say, to justify that. Speaker 300:16:55Yes. Thank you, John. Thanks, Evangelist. I'll turn it over. Operator00:17:04This concludes the question and answer session. I would like to turn the call back over to Doctor. Coustas for any further comments or closing remarks. Speaker 200:17:14Great. Thank you all for joining this conference call and your continued interest in our story. We look forward to hosting you on our next earnings call. Operator00:17:26Thank you. This concludes today's teleconference. We would like to thank everyone for their participation. Have a wonderful afternoon.Read morePowered by Key Takeaways Container market strength: Charter and box rates gained momentum in Q1 2024, and Danaos completed re-chartering activity above its internal forecasts. Newbuilding order book: Now comprises 14 Tier 3, methanol-ready vessels (108,000 TEU) with multiyear charters, raising contracted revenue backlog by $423 million to $2.5 billion at a 2.9-year average duration. Strong balance sheet: Conservative financing for the first eight newbuilds helped reduce net debt to $134.3 million (0.19× net debt/EBITDA), with 50 of 76 vessels unencumbered and total liquidity of $748 million. Stable earnings: Q1 adjusted EPS was $7.15 (adjusted net income $140 million), nearly flat year-over-year as higher operating costs were offset by increased revenues, lower finance costs, and better investment returns. Dry bulk expansion: Added a tenth Capesize vessel, bringing the fleet to 10 ships, and plans to grow cautiously given high capital and fuel-cost sensitivity in that segment. AI Generated. May Contain Errors.Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallDanaos Q1 202400:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K) Danaos Earnings HeadlinesDanaos Corp:Â Another Big Bet On Maritime TransportMay 29, 2025 | seekingalpha.comDANAOS Earnings Results: $DAC Reports Quarterly EarningsMay 16, 2025 | nasdaq.comTrump Makes Major Crypto AnnouncementPay close attention to what I'm about to share… Most investors think Trump's pro-crypto policies will lift all boats equally. They're wrong. One project stands to benefit more than any other – not by accident, but seemingly by design. June 12, 2025 | Crypto 101 Media (Ad)Danaos Corporation (NYSE:DAC) Q1 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptMay 16, 2025 | insidermonkey.comDanaos Corporation, Inc. (DAC) Q1 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptMay 14, 2025 | seekingalpha.comDanaos Corporation Reports First Quarter Results for Period Ended March 31, 2025May 13, 2025 | prnewswire.comSee More Danaos Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Danaos? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Danaos and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About DanaosDanaos (NYSE:DAC), together with its subsidiaries, provides container and drybulk vessels services in Australia, Asia, and Europe. The company offers seaborne transportation services by operating vessels in the containership and drybulk sectors of the shipping industry. As of April 03, 2024, it had a fleet of 68 containerships aggregating 421,293 twenty-foot equivalent units in capacity. The company was formerly known as Danaos Holdings Limited and changed its name to Danaos Corporation in October 2005. Danaos Corporation was founded in 1963 and is based in Piraeus, Greece.View Danaos ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Broadcom Slides on Solid Earnings, AI Outlook Still StrongFive Below Pops on Strong Earnings, But Rally May StallRed Robin's Comeback: Q1 Earnings Spark Investor HopesOllie’s Q1 Earnings: The Good, the Bad, and What’s NextBroadcom Earnings Preview: AVGO Stock Near Record HighsUlta’s Beautiful Q1 Earnings Report Points to More Gains Aheade.l.f. 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There are 4 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Danaos Corporation Conference Call to discuss the Financial Results for the 3 months ended March 31, 2024. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. Hosting the call today is Doctor. John Coustas, Chief Executive Officer of Danaos Corporation and Mr. Evangelos Hatzis, Chief Financial Officer of Danaos Corporation. Operator00:00:26Doctor. Coustas and Mr. Hatsis will be making some introductory comments, Then we will open the call to a question and answer session. Speaker 100:00:37Thank you, operator, and good morning to everyone and thank you for joining us today. Before we begin, I quickly want to remind everyone that management's remarks this morning may contain certain forward looking statements and that actual results could differ materially from those projected today. These forward looking statements are made as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update them. Factors that might affect future results are discussed in our filings with the SEC, and we encourage you to review these detailed Safe Harbor and Risk Factor disclosures. Please also note that where we feel appropriate, we will continue to refer to non GAAP financial measures such as EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income, time charter equivalent revenues and time charter equivalent dollars per day to evaluate our business. Speaker 100:01:30Reconciliations of non GAAP financial measures to GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release and accompanying materials. With that, let me now turn the call over to Doctor. John Coustas, who will provide the broad overview of the quarter. John? Speaker 200:01:46Thank you, Evangelos. Good morning and thank you for joining today's call to discuss our results for Q1 of 2024. The container market continued to strengthen in the Q1 of 2024, a trend that has continued into the Q2. Both charter and box rates are gaining momentum, and we have completed all necessary re chartering activity in excess of our internal forecasts. The renewed optimism in the market extends to the longer term view of the charterers who are making charter commitments on newbuilding vessels with deliveries scheduled from 2025 through end of 2027. Speaker 200:02:27Following the recent placement of an order for an additional 28,250 TEU vessels for 2027 delivery, our newbuilding order book currently consists of 14 vessels totaling 108,000 TEU, 2 of which have already been delivered to us. More importantly, we have now secured multiyear chartering agreements for all our vessels on order, while we have also extended charters of certain existing vessels. As a result of this chartering activity over the past 3 months, we have added $423,000,000 to our contracted revenue backlog that today stands at $2,500,000,000 with an average charter duration of 2.9 years. All the vessels in our newbuilding order book are methanol ready, future proofing a portion of our fleet on green fuel usage. We have also arranged very conservative financing for the first 8 newbuildings at competitive rates to ensure that we are able to maintain a strong liquidity profile to support continued opportunistic fleet expansion. Speaker 200:03:37In our drybulk vessels segment, we've added an additional Capesize to our fleet, increasing our fleet to 10 vessels in total. We are continuing to explore ways to increase our exposure to this market. Of the economies around the world are performing relatively well and are displaying no signs of recession. The biggest risk to our market outlook comes from trade hurdles that various countries are putting in place in the form of tariffs and trade restrictions on energy as well as manufactured goods. Despite the positive short term impacts of these practices, we believe that will ultimately result in trade contraction in the longer term. Speaker 200:04:37In the meantime, our strategy has continued to result in consistent, solid results. We will continue to explore growth opportunities while ensuring the longevity of our investments for the benefit of our shareholders. With that, I'll hand the call over back to Evangelos who will take you through the financials for the quarter. Evangelos? Speaker 100:04:55Thank you, John, and again, good morning to everyone. I will briefly review the results for the quarter and then open the call to Q and A. This quarter, we are reporting adjusted EPS of $7.15 per share or adjusted net income of $140,000,000 compared to adjusted EPS of $7.14 per share or $145,300,000 for the Q1 of 2023. This $5,300,000 decrease in adjusted net income between the two quarters is the result of a $22,200,000 increase in total operating costs, mainly due to the recognition during the current quarter of voyage costs related to voyage charters of our drybulk Capesize fleet, partially offset by a $9,800,000 increase in operating revenues, a $3,700,000 improvement in net finance costs, mainly driven by the significant deleveraging of the balance sheet and a $3,400,000 net improvement on investments. Vessel operating costs increased by $2,500,000 to $43,100,000 in the current quarter from $40,600,000 in the Q1 of 2023 as a result of the increase in the average number of vessels in our fleet. Speaker 100:06:23While our daily operating costs decreased to $6,493 per day for the current quarter from $6,807 per day in the corresponding Q1 of 2023. Our operating costs continue to remain among the most competitive in the industry. G and A expenses increased by $3,400,000 to $10,200,000 in the current quarter compared to $6,800,000 in the Q1 of 2023, mainly due to an increase in stock based non cash costs. Interest expense, excluding finance costs amortization, decreased by $3,400,000 dollars to $2,600,000 in the current quarter compared to $6,000,000 in the Q1 of 2023. The decrease in interest expense is the combined result of a $1,000,000 decrease because of lower average indebtedness by approximately $100,000,000 between the two periods, partially offset by an increase in the cost of debt service by approximately 60 basis points as a result of rising interest rates. Speaker 100:07:40We also had a $2,400,000 decrease in interest expense due to capitalization of interest on our vessels under construction. At the same time, interest income came in at $2,900,000 which is higher than the $2,600,000 interest expense for the current quarter, excluding amortization of finance costs. Adjusted EBITDA decreased by 1% to $1,800,000 to $177,200,000 in the current quarter from $179,000,000 in the Q1 of 2023 for reasons that have already been outlined earlier on this call. We also encourage you to review our updated investor presentation that has been posted on our website as well as subsequent events disclosures. Let me summarize a few of the highlights. Speaker 100:08:31Following recent chartering activity, our contracted cash revenue backlog remains strong and actually has increased to 2,500,000,000 dollars with a 2.9 year average charter duration, while contract coverage is up 99% for 2024 69% for 2025. That is coverage in terms of operating days. Our investor presentations have analytical disclosures on our contracted charter book. As of March 31, our net debt is now down to $134,300,000 and obviously in the current interest rate environment this position shifts from high interest costs. Additionally, the company's net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio came in at 0.19 times, while 50 out of our 76 vessels are currently unencumbered and debt free. Speaker 100:09:35Finally, as of the end of Q1, cash was at $324,000,000 while total liquidity including availability under our revolving credit facility and valuation of marketable securities stood at $748,000,000 giving us ample flexibility to pursue accretive capital deployment opportunities. With that, I would like to thank you for listening to this first part of our call. Operator, we are now ready to open the call to Q and A. Operator00:10:32The first question comes from Omar Khachta at Jefferies. Speaker 300:10:37Thank you. Hi, John and Evangelos. Good afternoon. Hi, Omar. Speaker 200:10:40Hi, Omar. Speaker 300:10:42Hi. Good. No, it looks like the business is coming along quite nicely here and quite a bit of a turnaround over the past several months. You obviously had the backlog and now it's gotten bigger. I think now that you've secured all 14 new buildings, including the latest orders from February March, you can the market's clearly gotten much stronger. Speaker 300:11:04You're now pretty much contracted for all of 24. You've got some open capacity in 2025. How would you characterize liner's interest today in securing those ships that open up in 'twenty five? Obviously, there's some forward fixing happening, especially as you've been able to fix the 27 delivery new buildings. But what about on the water ships? Speaker 300:11:24What's the appetite look like from your lens for ships that open up in 2025? Speaker 200:11:30Well, the appetite is pretty strong. We are already, let's say, negotiating 25 deliveries. I mean, ships that we have opened in 25. It's there is no doubt that part of the strength of the market has to do with the Suez Canal situation. This is not something that will last forever. Speaker 200:12:08But at least the way things look like, it will continue for, let's say, at least 2024. And overall, the whole combination of slowing speeds on some of the ships and the continued relative strength of trade and economies, they have led really to a situation of pretty solid demand. Speaker 300:12:48Yes. Thank you. And I guess with that backdrop and you mentioned it's definitely for 24, what's the interest from your side on additional new buildings given that you've been able to order ships and shortly thereafter get them contracted? And so what's your appetite for new buildings? And also maybe just kind of a perhaps qualitative question on those new buildings. Speaker 300:13:11Do you think it's more of the the methanol ready component that drove the charter interest in securing those well ahead of time or simply just a desire for liners to have ships that deep Speaker 200:13:24out? No, it's the methanol component is really irrelevant once there is no green methanol around. So and doesn't look it's going to be available before, let's say, 2,030, which is more or less the time horizon of, let's say, our charters. On the other hand, what is definitely important is that all these new vessels, which are Tier 3 and are much more economical than existing vessels is the main driving factor that will help charterers to meet environmental regulations and, on the other hand, reduce their costs through the lower fuel consumption. Speaker 300:14:26Yes. And maybe just thanks for that, John. Just a final one just on the dry bulk business. That investment has been very decent, I would say. You bought the 10 ks quite well. Speaker 300:14:39And just looking at sale and purchase values, you're up quite a bit nicely on that. What do you think is next for this business? You've got the 10 ships. Is it do you want to operate, harvest the cash flow, build it further or do you think monetizing it makes sense? Any sort of sense of how you think about that business? Speaker 200:15:06We definitely are here to stay in drybulk. We would like to have another, let's say, leg in the company. The only thing with drybulk is that it's a sector which is highly sensitive to cost. And if you go and commit today into very expensive new buildings, I'm not sure exactly how you're going to pay back. And I'm saying that because it's the fuel consumption on a Capesize today, let's say, the way that they are kind slow steaming is in the region of, let's say, around 30 tons per day, which is, of course, it's important, but it's nothing like the 70 or 80 tons that a medium sized container ship is consuming. Speaker 200:16:16So this gives, of course, to the container ship a much greater sensitivity to the cost of fuel and carbon eventually. In the bulk market, things are a bit more subdued, which, of course, is going to make a difference. But on the other hand, with high interest rates and high capital costs, it's hard to make let's say, to justify that. Speaker 300:16:55Yes. Thank you, John. Thanks, Evangelist. I'll turn it over. Operator00:17:04This concludes the question and answer session. I would like to turn the call back over to Doctor. Coustas for any further comments or closing remarks. Speaker 200:17:14Great. Thank you all for joining this conference call and your continued interest in our story. We look forward to hosting you on our next earnings call. Operator00:17:26Thank you. This concludes today's teleconference. We would like to thank everyone for their participation. Have a wonderful afternoon.Read morePowered by