Las Vegas Sands Q1 2025 Earnings Report

Las Vegas Sands EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.59
• Consensus EPS: $0.60
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$0.01
• One Year Ago EPS: $0.78

Las Vegas Sands Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $2.86 billion
• Expected Revenue: $2.95 billion
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$90.86 million
• YoY Revenue Growth: -3.30%

Las Vegas Sands Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q1 2025
• Date: 4/23/2025
• Time: After Market Closes
• Conference Call Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 4:30PM ET

Las Vegas Sands (NYSE:LVS), together with its subsidiaries, develops, owns, and operates integrated resorts in Macao and Singapore. It owns and operates The Venetian Macao Resort Hotel, the Londoner Macao, The Parisian Macao, The Plaza Macao and Four Seasons Hotel Macao, Cotai Strip, and the Sands Macao in Macao, the People's Republic of China; and Marina Bay Sands in Singapore. The company's integrated resorts feature accommodations, gaming, entertainment and retail malls, convention and exhibition facilities, celebrity chef restaurants, and other amenities. Las Vegas Sands Corp. was founded in 1988 and is based in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Las Vegas Sands Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Presentation

[Operator]

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Saan's First Quarter twenty twenty five It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you, Paul. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer Doctor. Wilpin Huang, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China and Grant Chung, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements. We will be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

The language on forward looking statements included in our press release and eight ks filings also applies to our comments made on the call today. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, the Q and A session, we ask those with interest to please post one question and one follow-up question so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

the call over to Ron.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Okay. Thank you, Dan. Let's begin with Macao. This is a competitive market that has not grown as we anticipated.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

However, we have the strongest assets in the market, and we can perform better despite the challenging macro environment. The Londoner is now fully open this time, 2,405 study rooms and suites as we prepare for gold week in May. Now we've completed development projects, we expect this asset to elevate our performance. Our focus is on improving our revenue and cash flow across the portfolio. There is opportunity in every segment to show strong results.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Our business strategy remains unchanged. We have designed our capital investment programs to ensure we will lead in both Macao and Singapore. We delivered $535,000,000 of EBITDA for the quarter in Macao. SEL still continues to lead the market in gaming and non gaming revenue and EBITDA. We have meaningful opportunities to grow in every segment.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Our objective is to grow our share of EBITDA in Macao markets. We have a unique product advantage in terms of scale, quality and diversity of product offerings. Turning to Rainy Bay Sands in Singapore. We delivered a record quarter with $6.00 $5,000,000 of adjusted property EBITDA, an extraordinary achievement by any standard. I assume this is record EBITDA quarter for any gaming property in the world, pretty extraordinary performance.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Mass gaming is flat. We have reached $778,000,000 reflecting 73% growth from the first quarter of twenty nineteen and thirteen percent growth from one quarter a year ago. The results of MBS reflect the positive impact of our gaming investment program and the growth of high value tourism. The growing appeal of Singapore as a destination is enhanced by the robust entertainment and lifestyle calendar. We believe there is considered runway for growth there as well.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Again, thanks for joining the call. Let me turn the call over to Patrick before we go to Q and A. Patrick?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $535,000,000 If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $10,000,000 When adjusted for lower than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio properties would have been 31.6%, down two eighty basis points compared to the first quarter of twenty twenty four. All 2,405 rooms and suites at the Londoner Grand are now available for the upcoming May Golden Week. Now that the refurbishment process is completed, we are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth at the Londoner. Margin at The Venetian was 35.3%, while margin at The Plaza and Four Seasons was 35.6%.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

We expect margin improvement as revenue grows, and we use our scale and product advantages to better address every market segment. As the Londoner ramps up and is integrated into our Cotai offerings, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We look forward to utilizing our entire portfolio to grow revenue and EBITDA. Now turning to Singapore. MBS' EBITDA was $6.00 $5,000,000 at a margin of 52%.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Given the mix of games and demonstrated player preferences over the last two years, we have updated our expectation for hold on rolling play at Rainy Bay Sands to 3.7%. There will naturally be fluctuations in any specific quarter given by game mix and player preference. We will continue to provide the illustrative impact of hold on our rolling play in Singapore. The record financial results of Rainy Bay Sands reflect the impact of high quality investment in market leading product and growth in high value tourism. We believe we are still in the early stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in Maria Bay Sands.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $450,000,000 of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share. Before going on to Q and A, I would like to provide an update on the New York development opportunity. We strongly believe in the development opportunity for land based downstate casino license in New York. We also continue to believe that the Nassau Coliseum site is the best location for that development opportunity and should be highly competitive in the New York casino licensing process.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

However, as we have previously stated, the company remains concerned about the impact of potential legalization of iGaming on the overall market opportunity and project returns. We are in the process of attempting to secure an agreement with a third party to whom we can transact the opportunity to bid for a casino license on the NASCAR Coliseum site. This would include those that may be able to address both land based and digital markets in New York. For Las Vegas Sands, we believe the highest and best use of our capital in the near term is to purchase LVS and SCL shares. Accordingly, LVS has decided not to bid for casino license in New York.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

We believe repurchases of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term. Our Board has increased our share repurchase authorization to $2,000,000,000 We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders in the future. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. And the first question today is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Rob,

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Patrick, thanks for your comments. As anyone could kind of see when you look at valuation of the Hong Kong listing and what it implies basically basically for the corporate and Singapore. One understands kind of the willingness and desire to kind of repurchase shares. As you do think about the two entities though and the various repurchases across both and your stake in in the Hong Kong listing specifically, how are you guys kind of balancing, the way you you more or less go about those allocations right now?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I appreciate the question. You've heard us say it on prior calls. We see meaningful value in both LBS and SEL equity, and we're gonna continue to act with this belief. So we were active during the quarter at LBS. I think our goal is to really be active in both SCL and LBS equity and continue to march towards that 74.9, and you'll see us do that.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think on the LBS side, we think the valuation where our stock is currently is very attractive for us. We're going be aggressive in the way that we buy back shares than we have done previously. So we view it as an opportunity, and we're going to continue to be active in the share repurchase market for both SEL and LVS.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Great. And then if I could, just

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

a quick follow-up.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Obviously, the decision to raise the theoretical on the VIP side in Marina Bay Sands makes sense relative to the history here over the last two years. As you look at, however, on the mass side, hold was up nicely. And I know it's always tough to kind of guesstimate what handle would have been in a hold environment and how to think about all of that. But when you look at kind of the impact, the higher hold year over year on the mass side, mass table side specifically had on MBS. Is there any way you guys could maybe outline how you think about the potential EBITDA benefit that stemmed from that?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think the the problem is, you know, it doesn't matter high end or or mass. The problem is it depends on what the customers pay. And that's always been the reason why the just starts talking about smart tables. It enables you to actually know and not guess whether it's three four, three six, four one. It tells you specifically.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think that's the advantage we're gonna have in both Macao and Singapore in the future. And, again, it it depends on the composition of bets. It really doesn't matter, you know, if it's pretty a mass or base mass. If the the customer bets the I I I call them profits, but the lesser the more favorable bets the house is gonna drive the whole percentage. It's it's a very for years, people discussed this, and guess what handle the whole percentage and false drop, etcetera.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

This takes the guesswork out and makes it actually not exactly perfect. And that's our goal, to have that information across both jurisdictions in the future.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think the most important thing here is that while MBS obviously is impacted by BOLD, our rolling program, really the outperformer at Marine Bay Sands has been the mass segment. And I think that really has been the story of Marine Bay Sands. Yes, I think our rolling business has improved in a meaningful way. But when you look at Marina Bay Sands and the investments that have been made there, it's really to attract high value tourists on the mass side. And our premium mass and mass segment there had outperformed to an extraordinary level.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And we think there's room to grow now that our renovation is complete. So I think it's an important story to talk about how we see the uptake of these side bets and how it has moved our hold over time. I think our team there has done great work developing game types and innovating so that we can benefit from player preferences and these more aggressive bets. But at the same time, it's really a mass driven story based on the investment and the non gaming amenities that are driving visitation and high value tourism. That's why you see the EBITDA that we have today.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

So Rob, Patrick, then is it fair if

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

you look at last year, kind of

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

the math table hold was right around 2020.1%. It had been kind of eighteen and nineteen in the prior years. Based on the theoretical that that you guys are seeing with the information that you you have to be able to do so, is is 20 more like that normalized level on a go forward basis on the mass side?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I don't know. You can, though. And, again, the the difference is it's like sportswear. If you read about the sports betting companies, when they have flat bets, one if one team wins the other, their whole percentage is relatively weak. When they make side bets, it's soars.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

And I think the same is happening here. The the math tends to bet more on the profit. It's usually more advantage. And that's my point is that if for twenty, thirty years I've been doing this, people have been guessing what's the right hope rate. 3.6?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Is 2.4? The beauty of this whole thing is we'll know mathematically perfect based on the best they make, and we take the the table drop out of it and the and the false drop in the handle. It comes down to it. It basically becomes a slot machine. You'll know exactly what the number should be.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think we are seeing, though, across the industry is the development of side bets have been very valuable. And since we're the biggest spot we have provided in the world, for this company, very valuable and it will impact EBITDA in the future because the more best they can get in these side bets, the more you grow the whole percentage. Bond, but it used to be a very dense house at two six, two seven because the flat bets were predominant. Today, the fact it's growing at three seven, could go to four, is hugely valuable for your EBITDA. And, again, it will be very clear within the next year the exact mathematical number.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

You won't be guessing more and say, it's going to be this, but it's going range of, I guess, 3.5% to 4%. But again, as these bets proliferate and people choose to make these five bets, I think baccarat becomes more and more valuable to this company because it's our principal source of revenue.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And we should just caution everyone that with player preference and game mix, these percentages will move around Yes. And with bet size. So we just have to be aware that this is the best that we can do in terms of providing information, and we're gonna continue to be optimistic about the types of gains we put on the floor in terms of growth they can provide, and we'll see what they do.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

The one thing that I've learned was is that differences are happening every day. The result of these gains is very valuable for the industry, very valuable for us, and it's happening and getting better by the day. And the more these bets continue to become more important, the more EBITDA will grow. And I think it's going happen both in Singapore. Think it'll happen in Macau as well.

[Operator]

The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley.

[Stephen Grambling, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

Hey, thank you. I think you mentioned that there's an effort to activate the properties and see revenue and EBITDA ramp from here as the Lindner project has generally come to completion. It looks like there's some moving parts across the different properties. So I'm curious if there's any thought process on some of the ones that maybe have lagged in terms of how you will reinvigorate growth there, whether it's Venetian Or is it just really a question of as the Londoner is kind of fully up and running, you'll see everything click?

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Yeah. Thank you, Stephen. I'll take that question. I think overall, yes, the focus will be ramping up the new product at London and France. As Rob mentioned, we now have the 2,400 rooms and suites in full service.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

And you'll see us leveraging the asset, the new product, to drive customer growth and, obviously, eventually, revenues and EBITDA. But the ramp up will will take its course over the next twelve months. We're still at the early stages of it. We just got the full complement of the rooms in mid April. As for the other properties, our intention is is to maintain and grow each of the existing properties while Londoner is ramped up.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

So you'll see us focus across Venetian, Parisian, Four Seasons, and Sands across all of the product segments and price points. But yes, the driver of our customer growth will be the Londoner over the next six to twelve months.

[Stephen Grambling, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

And does the initial read in what you're seeing there change the way you think about CapEx and allocating capital across the different properties? Or is there any kind of renovations that you see in the future at some of the other properties?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I have to tell you, I think Macau is the greatest gaming market in the world. If you look at its size and you look at the potential and where its source markets are, the long term potential there is absolutely incredible. And so we love our ability to invest there. We love the scale nature of our portfolio, the number of amenities that we have and the quality of those amenities and now the high quality of our entire property portfolio. We think we're in a great position.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And we're going to continue to invest to maintain that position but also for growth because we think the opportunity is there long term.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I think we will continue, Stephen, with regular upgrade and renovation of our existing assets. That's a given, given we have 33,000,000 square feet of asset portfolio across Macao. But the major redevelopment and upgrading at the Londoner is largely complete. We'll have a few more amenities to add and restaurants. But from here on, you should expect, yes, we will continue to reinvest back into the asset base because we need to upgrade and keep up with the competition.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

But it will be regular renovation where we'll be taking modest amount of keys out at any one time. And you'll see that over every year, every quarter, over the next several years as we upgrade the existing portfolio.

[Stephen Grambling, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

Helpful. Thank you. I'll jump back in the queue.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Thanks. I just wanted to circle back to the ramp up you mentioned for the Londoner. And you did mention that it may take twelve months. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, do you think that your market share results in Q1, did the new Londoner rooms contribute to that or would you say not really like that's not really indicative of where you think your market share can go? And I guess, don't know if you can give a little more color around what would happen over the next twelve months or why it would take twelve months.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS Group]

I know you'll have, of course, very easy comparisons to the disruption in Q2 and last year, but that maybe is a little bit longer of a ramp up period than maybe people would have expected. Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I have to tell you, this is what we spend a lot of time talking about. And we're very focused on growing our business in Macao. Unfortunately, we had 2,000 keys we really 2,405 keys that we really wanted to be available. It took a little while to get them. So during the quarter we didn't have full access to all the inventory we normally would have to bring to bear.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think when you think about it, 1,700 keys that we were out or 1,416 keys we were out on average over the quarter is equivalent to not having a property available in your portfolio. And so I think now that it's back and we have the full strength of our portfolio, we're going to press very hard to continue to grow this business, recapture share, recapture EBITDA share and grow revenue, which will expand our margin. But we have some work to do. I think that's very clear to us. We know it.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

We acknowledge it. And there's some things we wanna focus on in Macau to improve our outlook and grow our business.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Yeah. Robin, I think the the reference to the twelve months is simply that in any new property of this scale, we are going to get better and better over time. That that's really the point of that comment. In terms of the market share, yes. I think, our results were impacted by the fact that we lost market share both against the prior year and sequentially.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

And we are looking with the new assets coming online, we are looking to be competing harder for the revenues in a flat market. And we fully intend to compete with the Londoner, but also you can see some of our results in the other properties. We're looking to improve performance at Venetian as well as the other existing properties. So I think it's going to be a comprehensive effort to reactivate, engage new customer growth as well as to fully leverage the new property in Dun And Bradstreet.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Thank you. And maybe just as a follow-up. Macau has talked about kind of wanting to review the non gaming investments and efforts of the concessionaires. Do you have a sense of what they would like to see more of or what may have changed recently or they would be looking for more of going forward? Thanks.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I'll give my view and maybe Wilfred can also chime in here in terms of the policy direction. For us, we we are continuing to focus on what we've committed to the government in terms of non gaming investments. And, clearly, we are we've already made a significant investment in upgrading the Venetian Arena at a cost of around $200,000,000 was completed last year. That's our single biggest project that we've completed for the concession commitment. And of course, in terms of programming, in terms of developing sports and mega events with with strong international IP, we'll bring the NBA preseason games this October, which will be a multiyear partnership.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Wilfred, do you wanna add to to how how things are evolving in terms of the direction on on non gaming investments?

[Ying Wai Wong, Executive Vice Chairman at Las Vegas Sands]

Sure. I think the new administration now has had time to look at the overall picture of the non gaming development. And they are as long as we maintain our total commitment, they are looking to us to specialize in areas where we each do best because this, they feel that maybe it's better that rather than six of us or working on similar areas, maybe there are emphasis that each of us can focus on. So there will be opportunities for us to discuss with the government what how we do best in some of the areas. And the second area is that we because of the GTR reaching certain level, we are also committed to spending an additional 20% of our into the non gaming investment.

[Ying Wai Wong, Executive Vice Chairman at Las Vegas Sands]

And the government is really looking into how best to coordinate the use of these proceeds.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS Group]

Great. Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live.

[Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch]

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. One big picture one and then sort of one micro one, if I could. On the big picture side, just Rob or Grant, high level view here on just has the market dynamic in Macau changed at all as it relates to the balance between premium mass and the competition there versus base mass? I mean, as I think about it, LVS has always succeeded, I think really well when the market's been extremely full.

[Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch]

But we've seen the visitation recover now and sort of both segments are struggling a little And so I'm just kind of curious on the balance. And sort of are you pivoting strategy at all to kind of lean into particularly the premium segment if that's the healthier one right now?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Sure. I think your observations are correct. It's a we used to our scale and and size played to our advantage for years, and it was a huge advantage for us, and that's more difficult to make the right. And it's more competitive in each segment. There's no more longer a free segment or easy business, but, yeah, it'll be very competitive.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But in the end, I think our assets give us a I think that we've really handicapped this Monday thing that's taken so long and so difficult. Now we have all these rooms back open again. We can service the base mass, premium mass. We've done well at the premium mass. We haven't done as well at the base mass nor has the market provided opportunity to base mass.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But your observations are spot on. We were the leaders and the margin leaders as well in that base mass segment, which is much more difficult today. And that's been the conundrum of Macao for us. I think now, though, it's a new day. London is open.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

It's extraordinary, both in terms of scale and quality. I think it introduces all kinds of new opportunities for us to maximize that asset and grow again and get back in the game. We're disappointed by our results in every segment. We can do better. We plan to do better.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But I think your observations unfortunately make that market as highly competitive with base mass, premium mass. There is no easy segment anymore in Macao. Brent?

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Yeah. Sean, I think to add to the visitation question, although you do see strong visitation growth and recovery, you can see also from slide 20 of Dan's deck, the visitation, especially this quarter, is being driven by the day trippers from Guangdong province because they've introduced a couple of new multiple entry visas to Zhuhai and Hengjin. And the Guangdong non Guangdong visitation is still only a recovery rate of about 75%. So clearly, the overnight visitation, the customers are gonna spend more coming from further away. That's still lagging.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

But to Rob's point, the the base mass is is the opportunity there has been more challenging for us, and therefore, we are also competing for the revenues in in premium mass given a very competitive context in that segment. But that is the strongest segment. You're absolutely right in that observation. But we will continue to drive both premium mass and base mass, especially with the full inventory online now.

[Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch]

Great. Thanks. And just as a follow-up, this sort of alludes to, I think, a comment that Patrick made in prepared remarks about sort of expecting margin improvement as revenue grows. Just I think as we did our math and this is high level so it could be off a little bit, but Macao OpEx we had up roughly 7% across the properties this quarter. And kind of curious is that like the right run rate?

[Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch]

Or are there things you can do to match cost to revenue? Again, maybe this was somewhat inflated by reopening of Londoner, maybe the reopening of the Arena in the Venetian. I'm not sure exactly, but felt like it was a little that being up relative to kind of where revenues came in was a bit of a of a double issue for you.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Again, your observation is right. The main contributor is just additional payroll costs that we incurred both because of salary increases, but also additional headcount as we opened up these these new assets. But at the same time, obviously, we had a revenue decline in a non rolling segment. We we we actually did did well in the slot and also rolling, But the most important segment of revenue is the non rolling tables, and we came down in that segment. So that's where you get that negative operating leverage.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

So hopefully, we should be seeing the reverse of that over time as we compete with the new assets and the existing properties for the customers and the revenues. And as revenues improve, we should see the positive operating leverage even with the payroll cost increase.

[Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch]

Thank you so much.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

Great. Thanks everybody. Thanks for taking my question. Curious and I know you guys don't give guidance or a comprehensive forward look at the business. But there's been some commentary from the government, from other sources that there's a pretty decent momentum into Golden Week in May.

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

I'm just curious if April and or the Golden Week bookings that you see feel better than normal or worse than normal? Or how would you kind of characterize what you're seeing out there?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Yeah. Appreciate the question, but we don't talk about current quarter. So we're gonna move on to your next question.

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

Okay. Fair enough. Sure.

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

So next question would be

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

next question would be on the Venetian. I'm curious, I understand we kind of talked about the owner a lot here and we kind of can see what's going on a little bit with the sequential share losses there because you didn't have the rooms and so it's a tough environment for base mass. But what about the Venetian? Is there something can you kind of walk us through maybe the monthly results in that property or how things evolved throughout the quarter and if that was sort of affected at all by other things in the portfolio and optimization changes that you've made?

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I think it's straightforward, Brandon. I mean, Venetian, we just had two sharper decline in the non rolling revenues, especially in the premium mass segment, and we're we're addressing that. Obviously, the whole percentage against both prior year and quarter on quarter was was actually much lower as well. But nonetheless, we're focused on on driving the customer and revenues across all segments of Venetian premium best and and base mass. It's fair to say it's as well patronized, as well populated in terms of headcount as ever.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

In fact, we had quite significant growth in non rolling table headcount during the quarter both over the prior year and sequentially, But clearly, the spend per headcount was lower. So we do need to drive to secure higher value customers in the premium mass segment to grow the revenues back at the nation.

[Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank]

Great. Thanks, everyone.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Joe Stauff from Susquehanna. Joe, your line is live.

[Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna]

Thank you. Patrick, Rob, Grant. Two questions on NBFs, please. I guess the first one, is there any way to assess, I guess, the level of consumer adoption, especially for the mass customer for Prop Bets? Naturally, of given the higher guidance that you have on VIP that the adoption rate is is higher, but I was just wondering how you guys think about it.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think it's very difficult. Are you saying how can you handicap people's willingness to bet a certain way? Is that I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

[Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna]

No. More like the, I guess, the frequency of a mass customer to bet on props versus that of the VIP. Obviously, bet sizes, but just the frequency between the two groups.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I don't think you can actually ever say 100% how people are going bet a certain way, but I do think the lower end customer tends to be it's like lottery tickets. It tends to bet more it's a lesser customer, I think, on the prop bets. And your large bettors, your your more you're rolling in super high end tend to be more flat bettors, but that's not always true. That can reverse as well. And I think the truth is no one can predict this, but what you are seeing over the market is they are adopting or moving towards these prop bets in a way which I never thought we'd see these.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Think about a whole percentage moving the entire point. It wasn't that long ago, two eighty five was the standard, but now Patrick mentioned three eighty seven. It could be four one. The truth is they are adopting these bets every day, both in the base mass, premium mass, and rolling segments. How much we keep moving after, I don't know.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I can't predict that. I can tell you we've got the ability now. We're we're confident with the new machinery and the and our smart tables to tell you what it should be exactly, and you'll be able to tell for yourself. But I think people propensity of bet is very hard to figure out. Some people are valuable bank bettors or player bettors, and some love prop bets.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I don't think you can can pigeonhole any one segment how they're gonna bet. We have people at the super high end who bet props like crazy, and it's hard to imagine they're that kind of money, and others who are flat bettors. That's always been the case in gambling. You can't really assess how someone's gonna bet till they step off the table. Although people sometimes do see these bets, how we merchandise them, will be very important in the future of our business to merchandise these bets in a way we get people to bet more in different directions.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Flat betting definitely helped our company's whole percentage with the industry. But I think we're in a new world here in baccarat, and it's an astounding new world. We're lucky to have it because imagine a point point and a half more of hold, what that does to this company's revenues and EBITDA. It's astounding. And we're seeing it in Singapore, I think you'll see it in Macao as well over time.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But you can't really get handicap or success. You can merchandise it better so people see it and have the ability to at least gravitate towards it.

[Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna]

Understood.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

you also have more games. And you also I should also say, we also have people who spend their time thinking about developing these new games and how you do that, how you find new prop bets to make and make the games more interesting and then merchandise it to the customer. So we're actively trying to do that, and it's a very big part of our push towards better hold percentage.

[Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna]

Understood. And maybe a follow-up on just the renovations in Tower 3. What I guess, very briefly, are you still on time to finish roughly in June? And what just taking inventory of what are the big items still that need to be completed?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So Tower 3 is done, but the the key thing is there's some things we're gonna be doing in the lobby and the Skypark over the next six to nine months. But as a as a lodging capacity, we're there.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

The room is just not public space.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Yes. The rooms are good.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

It's a public space that we're going continue to do some work on throughout the year. But the rooms are there, and you're going start seeing the benefit of those rooms in the upcoming quarters.

[Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna]

Okay. Thanks, guys.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi from Citigroup. George, your line is live.

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Thank you very much for taking my question. Now obviously the introduction of the new side bets was done in Macau only in the middle of last year. I just wonder how popular are these new CyPass in Macau thus far, and how does it compare to Singapore? Is there any chance that you could also raise the theoretical whole rate in Macau in less than two years' time?

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Hey, George. Actually, in terms of introducing new side wages, we had one set of introduction in q two of of last year, and the the the other latest one in October. So progressively, you're seeing strong take up of all of these new wages. Obviously, Macau is somewhat behind Singapore as a market. Some of these wages were introduced a lot earlier before Macao.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

So we're only beginning to see the adoption, but the adoption, I would say, is strong. But at this stage, yes. In Singapore, we do see a higher propensity to wager these SI wages, but Macau is growing. And over time, who knows? As Rob says, you you you can't predict the the precise distribution.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

All we know is that the propensity is increasing.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think with time, George, the two markets have become very similar. I believe that long term, it'd be very similar if there's a whole percentage.

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Thanks for the color.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

You know what we know. We know what we know. You're ahead of us, George. You know this already. Right?

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Thanks for that kind of those kind words. Another question for me is on dividends. So you all appreciate the recent dividend assumption at Sans China. Should we expect the payout ratio to be maintained at around 50% level? And I guess more importantly, should we expect an increase in the dividend in the dividends of of LPS as a result from Sense China dividend resumption?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So first off, in the honor of Sheldon Gialis, I'd like to say yay dividends. I think that's very important here, very applicable. I think the key thing here is we're very happy that the SCO Board determined to be able to start paying a dividend again at the China level. And we hope to be able to grow that dividend over time as our CapEx rolls off there and as we generate more cash flow through revenue and EBITDA growth. So we're very excited about the opportunity to continue return of capital at the SCL level and to grow that dividend to the future.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think at the LBS level, what you've seen us do in years past is really be very dividend heavy. And I think what you're seeing now, if you sort of look at our return of capital, which is actually laid out on Page 33 of our book, you can kind of see that our ratio from share repurchase to dividends has been very weighted towards share repurchases. And if you sort of review our prior commentary in this call, you'll see that we're very focused on returning capital through share repurchases, both at the LBS level and through the acquisition of further SEL shares. So while we don't necessarily target a specific dividend payout ratio, we do think where we are is healthy and sustainable for the long term for long term dividend growth. And as SCL continues to grow its dividend over time, as we hope, we'll have the ability to return more capital at the LBS level.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you very much. I'll turn back to the queue.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Colin Mansfield from CBRE. Colin, your line is live.

[Colin Mansfield, Director at CBRE Group]

Hey, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe the first one, can you give a little bit of color around what drove the decision to repay the parent loan from Sands China back to the parent? Just given we talked about that in the past, it was a pretty attractive cost of capital relative to where, you know, your current spreads are. So just kind of curious what influenced that decision, and how should we think about, you know, is your ability to dividend cash out of Macau?

[Colin Mansfield, Director at CBRE Group]

Is that part of the decision too?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Think the idea was that decision was made at the SEL board level. But the general concept was SEL is performing in a strong way and has growth opportunities, its leverage level is quite low. And I think for SEL, was just negative carry. It was accumulating cash. And why not pay down some pre payable debt since they no longer needed it as SEL has access to the investment grade credit market if there's any reason to create an opportunity for further borrowings.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think with access to the revolving credit facility that it had, its current capital structure, its leverage levels and the amount of cash that it was generating, it just made sense for SEL to pay back and get rid of some negative carry.

[Colin Mansfield, Director at CBRE Group]

Okay. That's helpful, Karl. Maybe second one for you, maybe. Just thinking about capital markets activity coming up with your upcoming refinancings, both at the holdco level and also SANS China. You guys are a seasoned investment grade issuer.

[Colin Mansfield, Director at CBRE Group]

How are you guys thinking about the timing, potentially tapping the capital markets? Would you potentially lean on the revolver since you have capacity and liquidity there too? Just how are thinking about that?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think you'll see us address the $500,000,000 of LVS bonds in 2025 in the near term. And I think we have an approach for that that we're very comfortable with. In regards to the SEL bonds, the $1,620,000,000 that comes due, we did actually through the revolver refinancing there, we also initiated a term loan that we have the ability to draw on that amount. So if we choose to access the high grade credit markets, we have that opportunity Or we may put it into the term loan, which is also very favorable and offers a lot of flexibility. So we have an approach to both of those maturities in 2025.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Steve Wojciechinski from Stifel. Steve, your line is live.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Yes. Hey, guys. Good afternoon. So bigger picture question that I'm not even sure you're going to have an answer or not, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Rob, clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty around the political environment in both The U.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

S. And China. And I think the fear that's out there is China might, at some point, retaliate against U. S. Companies or something along the lines.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

That's where a lot of investors' heads are these days. So I guess the question is, is that something, Rob, that kind of keeps you awake at night? Or do you view your relationship with China in, you know, in in very, very good standing at this point, and that risk, you know, seems more, you know, low, if that makes sense?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

First of I think we are not in Mainland China. We're in Macau, S A R. I think there is a difference, number one. I do think Macau is a different orientation vis a vis Beijing. Secondly, to your point, I think we have an incredible relationship with Beijing, and we've worked on it for many, many years, and it's very important to us.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

We're a big believer in the relationship between China and The U. S. We're very disheartened about what's happening right now. Hopefully, we can get back on track. But it doesn't keep me up at night at all.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

In fact, I think we're in a very good position at Cal. We've been the leader in CapEx. We've been the leader in developing nongating assets. Sheldon has a legacy which stands well. I don't believe this this right now, this dislocation in countries is sustainable.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

There has to be a deal between the two most powerful countries in the world. I remain steadfast. My belief is to come back to a much more normal, rational place quickly. They have to. And I'm hoping that happens, you know, sooner than I anticipate.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But, no, it doesn't keep any of us up at night. We feel very committed to Macau and vice versa. It's been a very special relationship with this company, and it began twenty plus years ago when Sheldon first went there and made that pitch for Cotai. And I think the Chinese are the incredible partners. The government of Macau, people in Beijing.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

We're grateful for their support over the years, and we continue to believe we'll be there for many years to come beyond the concession. And no, it doesn't keep me up at all. I would like to see a stronger relationship in The U. S. And China tonight because we all need it.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Consumers need it. They need it. We need it. It's good for the world. And I am very disheartened what I'm seeing, but hopefully, that gets resolved quickly.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

But no, we're not concerned at all about our position in Macau nor should we be.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. That's that's great color. Appreciate that, Rob. And then second question real quickly. There have been some reports out there that the Singapore government wants to get, you know, probably a little bit more aggressive with driving visitation, you know, into their country moving forward.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

And, that, you know, that that should benefit MBS over time. So I guess the question is, have you guys thought about that more in terms of what obviously increased visitation could do to you've always kind of given some longer term projections of what MBS could look like from an EBITDA perspective over time. And and and has this kinda changed your view around that at all?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So first off, I think Singapore is an unbelievable market for high value tourists. And Singapore has been very focused on creating opportunities for high value tourism for many years and investing behind that thesis. And airports, infrastructure, and other things that create attractions to help create prominence and desirability to visit visit Singapore. And so I think for us, it it benefits us. But we're also investing with this thesis.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So if you look at how we invest, the amenities that we're creating, the way we're positioning ourselves, the way other non gaming operators are positioning their tourism offerings, it's really a special place. You know, I I think for us, it's very motivating, and we're very excited to continue to invest there and expand our our offerings there. It's a very it's it's a very rare place. Singapore is rarefied there. And it's very special who goes to Singapore, the consumption habits.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

If you look at the retail consumption, the beverage consumption, the gaming play, the lodging consumption, it's it's really unique. And I think it's driven because of the the overall goal of the government of Singapore, which is to create the opportunity for high value tourism. And so we're we've been benefiting it from it for the last fifteen years, and the Singapore government has been great in terms of investing in the assets to drive tourism, and we've been investing behind that.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I have to say, though, as much as Singapore is a wonderful place, our asset is a wonderful asset within that place. And we've created our own very special place within the great state of Singapore. I think what we've done there is extraordinary, and it attracts those people because there's nothing like it in the region. There's nothing that special. It's very seductive.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

The rooms, the product, the is amazing, and it's enhanced Singapore and vice versa. So going back, the the vision of Singapore government is amazing. Our vision is pretty good too to build what we built over there.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate it. That's great color.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Ben Chaikin from Mizuho. Ben, your line is live.

[Benjamin Chaiken, Equity Analyst at Mizuho Financial Group, Inc.]

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. In NBS, great margin results and strong mass performance. Would you just remind us, would you say that 1Q twenty twenty five had a difficult comparison year over year from the there was a large concert in the prior year as well as the easing of the China visitation policy, which I believe was also in the prior year? Or was this a pretty clean comparison year over year?

[Benjamin Chaiken, Equity Analyst at Mizuho Financial Group, Inc.]

Then one follow-up. Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Well, first off, I think both quarters were awesome.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

That makes

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So so it's a tough comp. But as a practical matter, this was a totally normal quarter. So I I would say that there wasn't anything extraordinary that happened in the quarter. This is this is pretty indicative of of the performance of the business without any sort of any out of anything that's out of the ordinary.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Wasn't till it's still there?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I I think the key thing here is we really have been able to put the entire asset to work, which is something we haven't been able to do for a while because of all the construction activities. So we're really getting close to being able to see this thing really get to the point where it's not experiencing any interruption due to development work. And I think the key thing is this quarter was very normal. To your point, last year's quarter did have the Taylor Swift concert, did have a lot of other things going on that created very strong demand and very strong visitation. This quarter did.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so we're very fortunate that we had the results that we did. Credit to the team, they did phenomenal work. As Rob just referenced, the building's in phenomenal shape. We think it's the best building in the world. And very proud of what we've accomplished, but you can see the results from the activities there.

[Benjamin Chaiken, Equity Analyst at Mizuho Financial Group, Inc.]

That's very helpful. And yes, great results there. And then switching to Macau, maybe just touching on the sequential market share in Macau again. Fully recognizing that you had rooms out of service in 1Q, but also acknowledging you had rooms out of service in 4Q as well. I guess, is the interpretation just from some of the previous commentary that it's harder for you to leverage the current type of gameplay or or player in Macau as it stands?

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I think sequentially, our room counts moved up marginally. So we're about eight, eighty nine hundred for for q four and 91 or 9,200 in q one. I think in terms of the London, the ramp up, that was really a very soft ramp for for q one because we didn't have all of the rooms. And therefore, it didn't make sense for us to operate as many gaming units in the London, the Grand Casino for the first quarter. But from now on, from April, you'll see obviously us in in full ramp up mode.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

So I'm not sure if that answers your question, but is there is there something else that you're asking that we haven't addressed?

[Benjamin Chaiken, Equity Analyst at Mizuho Financial Group, Inc.]

No. That's that's fine. I appreciate it. Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

You. Thanks, Matt.

[Operator]

Thank you. And the final question today will be coming from David Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is live.

[David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you working in. I just want to go back to some of the earlier commentary and questions because I heard the word competition and competitive market in Macau quite a bit. Having been there not all that long ago and heard a lot of the on the ground commentary about more of a benign promotional environment, are you suggesting that you know, we might start to see that change as as part of the land Londoner ramp up? When you use the word competition, what what do you mean by that?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

I mean, competition, people are fighting for various segments, and it's across the board. I'm not sure what you mean benign with me like that, David, because I don't see it as benign. There was a time when face mask was benign, and they fell in the door and no one gave me anything. That those days are gone. So I think it is highly competitive.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Again, our our asset base is the best in in class and scale and size. So I think we will do better, but I think it'd be foolish to think that in a non growing market with a top line defensive styrene They're not expected to be competitive, and that reflects everyone's business, not just ours. So I'm not saying it's outsized with the facility competition, but it's competition, Grant.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

Yeah. I don't have to add to that Rob's comment. I I think it's always been very, very competitive. I I think we've just got to look at the competitive context, use the new assets that we have, and the advantages of scale and and the product that we have to really compete harder to get more revenue and customer growth. That's all we're saying.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I think the market has been very competitive. I don't think there's been any significant deterioration in that, but we've also got to reflect and see where our position is within that context. And with all of the new rooms online, we fully intend to compete hard to get more revenue.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Well, there's reduced liquidity, obviously, 02/2019, reduced top line results. So in any market where you shrink by 6,000,000,000 to $8 10 billion dollars you're gonna see more competition with the existing dollars over there, and you're seeing that in the count. I'm not saying we can compete. I think we will compete pretty well, but I think it'd be foolish not to recognize that base mass, premium mass, well, in every segment in Macao is under pressure in terms of getting your fair share.

[David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies]

Right. And if I can just follow that up. One of the observations is, and I think some of the earlier questions were to this end, is that the premium mass arena seems to be, you know, getting quite a bit more crowded. Part of my question was, you know, are you, you know, planning to get more promotional? And I think that's what the, you know, the word benign is really attached to, you know, whether operators start, you know, becoming more promotional in how they compete.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

I I'm not sure. I I think in terms of promotional, you have to look at it in in different different ways. I mean, firstly, we're going to aggressively deploy our new assets. Right. I I think that's first and foremost.

[Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy at Las Vegas Sands]

We have the largest scale in terms of the it's product and sliding g product, And we need to drive that as hard as we can to maximize that scale advantage across all product types and across all price points. That that's that's the second piece. In terms of marketing activities, there's always gonna be tactical promotions that that you implement every operator does. I I think we're just gonna be very active in engaging existing and new customers and reactivating old customers with the full inventory that we're going to have at our disposal. And we're going to drive that very hard because we intend to gain customers and gain revenues.

[David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies]

Thanks very much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. This does conclude today's Q and A session, and it does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

Participants

Executives

• Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations
• Robert Goldstein, Chairman & CEO
• Patrick Dumont, President and COO
• Grant Chum, Executive VP of Asia Operations & Senior VP of Global Gaming Strategy
• Ying Wai Wong, Executive Vice Chairman

Analysts

• Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank
• Stephen Grambling, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley
• Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS Group
• Shaun Kelley, Senior Research Analyst & MD - Gaming, Lodging & Leisure Equities at Bank of America Merrill Lynch
• Brandt Montour, Director, Equity Research Analyst at Barclays Corporate & Investment Bank
• Joseph Stauff, Institutional Investment Analyst at Susquehanna
• George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup
• Colin Mansfield, Director at CBRE Group
• Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp
• Benjamin Chaiken, Equity Analyst at Mizuho Financial Group, Inc.
• David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies