Ameriprise Financial Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 24, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • Positive Sentiment: Ameriprise’s assets under management, administration and advisement reached a record $1.6 trillion, driving a 4% increase in adjusted net revenues, 7% EPS growth to $9.11, and a 52% return on equity.
  • Positive Sentiment: Wealth management client assets rose 11% to $1.1 trillion, WRAP assets climbed 15%, revenue per advisor grew 11% to $1.1 million, and client satisfaction remained high at 4.9 out of 5.
  • Positive Sentiment: The firm continues to invest in technology, AI, advanced analytics and digital capabilities—highlighted by the launch of Signature Wealth—to enhance advisor efficiency and client experience.
  • Neutral Sentiment: Asset management delivered strong long-term performance (over 70% of funds above median at five years and 99 funds with four or five Morningstar stars) but faced $8.7 billion of outflows in the quarter.
  • Positive Sentiment: Ameriprise returned 81% of operating earnings in Q2, plans to increase the payout ratio to 85% in H2, and has $2.3 billion of excess capital, returning $3 billion to shareholders year-to-date.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Ameriprise Financial Q2 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Welcome to the Q2 twenty twenty five Earnings Call. My name is Julianne, and I will be your operator for today's call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

Operator

Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Stephanie Rabe. Stephanie, you may begin.

Stephanie Rabe
Stephanie Rabe
Head - IR at Ameriprise Financial

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Welcome to Ameriprise Financial's second quarter earnings call. On the call with me today are Jim Cracciolo, Chairman and CEO and Walter Berman, Chief Financial Officer. Following their remarks, we'd be happy to take your questions. Turning to our earnings presentation materials that are available on our website.

Stephanie Rabe
Stephanie Rabe
Head - IR at Ameriprise Financial

On slide two, you will see a discussion of forward looking statements. Specifically, during the call, you will hear references to various non GAAP financial measures, which we believe provide insight into the company's operations. Reconciliation of non GAAP numbers to their respective GAAP numbers can be found in today's materials and on our website at www.ir.ameriprise.com. Some statements that we make on this call may be forward looking, reflecting management's expectations about future events and overall operating plans and performance. These forward looking statements speak only as of today's date and involve a number of risks and uncertainties.

Stephanie Rabe
Stephanie Rabe
Head - IR at Ameriprise Financial

A sample list of factors and risks that could cause actual results to be materially different from forward looking statements can be found in our second quarter twenty twenty five earnings release, our 2024 annual report to shareholders, and our twenty twenty four ten ks report. We make no obligation to publicly update or revise these forward looking statements. On slide three, you see our GAAP financial results at the top of the page for the second quarter. Below that, you see our adjusted operating results, which management believes enhances the understanding of our business by reflecting the underlying performance of our core operations and facilitates a more meaningful trend analysis. Many of the comments that management makes on today's call will focus on adjusted operating results. And with that, I'll turn it over to Jim.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining our call. As we shared in our release, Ameriprise had another good quarter in first half of twenty twenty five, continuing our record of generating strong results over many years in market environments. We feel very good about the strategic direction and competitive strengths of our business, and importantly, our ability to help clients achieve their long term goals. Reflecting externally, equity markets moved around quite a bit in the quarter and investors paused and kept more cash on the sidelines. That said, markets proved to be remarkably resilient given ongoing trade dynamics.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

As we saw, economic conditions were on a firm footing in the first half. However, questions remain around the next steps and impact of tariffs. With that backdrop, our assets under management, administration and advisement grew to a new high of $1,600,000,000,000 And in terms of financials, adjusted operating results were also good. Total revenues increased 4% from asset growth and strong transactional activity. Earnings per share increased another 7% and our return on equity remains among the industry's best at a very strong 52%.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Across the business, we continue to implement a significant investment agenda. That includes investments in our leading client experience, technology, digital capabilities, advanced analytics, and AI. And this is made possible by our consistent expense discipline and ongoing transformation efforts across the firm. On the wealth side, we're delivering strong value through our quality client advisor engagement centered on our goal based advice experience. And we see this reflected in the excellent client satisfaction that we consistently earned of 4.9 out of five.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We had strong client engagement and client assets grew nicely again in the quarter to a new record of $1,100,000,000,000 was up 11%. Total WRAP assets were also up increasing 15%. WRAP net inflows were $5,400,000,000 and reflected the higher market uncertainty and seasonal impact of client tax payments. And transactional activity was also good. Client total cash holdings increased in the quarter and remained very high as we would expect based on the market situation and near term rates.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And these assets on the sideline represent a future growth opportunity. We continue to provide exceptional support and capabilities to our advisors and teams. They're staying closely connected with clients and benefiting from the investments we're making. For example, our intelligence dashboards provide in-depth analysis of key areas of advisors practice like client contact, prospects, and acquisition. We're also using automation analytics to drive efficiency, help advisors enhance personalization based on client needs, and identify opportunities for deepening and engagement.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And in June, we made a significant addition to our wealth management capabilities with the launch of Signature Wealth, which we feel will help advisors to manage client assets even more holistically and efficiently. It brings the best of our current advisory platform into a flexible, unified management account and frees up capacity for our advisors to further focus on client engagements and practice growth. With the excellent platform we've built and the integrated support we provide, our advisors continue to be highly productive and engaged and productivity grew another 11% to $1,100,000 per advisor. Regarding recruiting, we continue to bring in good recruits, another 73 experienced advisors joining Ameriprise in the quarter, and we feel good about our pipeline as well as our differentiated adviser value proposition. These advisers appreciate our reputable brand, practice support, and financial strength and stability.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We're also hearing how their clients feel overwhelmingly positive about moving to Ameriprise, which is terrific. The bank is also doing well. Total assets were up 6% and we're earning good spread. Loan growth at the bank is also good driven by pledge. As we've shared, we're launching new products like our new CD that came out in the second quarter.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And in the coming months, we'll be bringing out HELOCs and checking accounts to add to our product offering. And I would highlight that our wealth business consistently delivers best in class margin. It was 29% for the quarter. As part of our larger solution set, our retirement income and protection products helped serve clients' full financial picture. We're driving good sales in our targeted areas like variable universal life, variable annuities without living benefit riders, and structured annuities.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

In fact, we saw a nice pickup of 25% from the first quarter within our structured solutions. Advisers appreciate having these strong consistent offerings on the platform that have been developed and seamlessly integrated with our client experience, and we're working closely to support them to engage clients to meet more of their needs. It was another strong quarter for RPS. The business consistently generates good returns for the company and strong free cash flow. The RPS business is one of the most profitable insurance businesses in the industry.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Turning to asset management, we continue to deliver attractive earnings and drive operational efficiencies. Total assets under management and administration increased to $690,000,000,000 up 2% year over year and 5% sequentially. Our investment performance continues to be strong across both equity and fixed income. We had excellent long term performance. More than 70% of our funds were above the median on an asset weighted basis for the five year period and more than 80% over ten years.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Regarding the one year, equity performance slipped a bit. However, short term fixed income performance is very strong at more than 80% above the median. And 99 of our funds were rated four or five stars by Morningstar. Regarding flows, we had $8,700,000,000 of outflows in the quarter largely driven by higher institutional impacts. In Global Retail, gross sales increased about 10% year over year, but like others we had higher underlying redemptions.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

April was especially tough for the industry given the markets. Looking at our flow rate in The U. S. Versus active peers, we're a bit ahead in terms of equities and a bit below in fixed income, but we've narrowed the gap. And in EMEA retail, higher redemptions were also a fact that it drove outflows in the quarter, although we did see a nice pickup in UK multi asset strategies.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

On the retail product front, we're adding to our active research enhanced index ETF lineup in The U. S. And gaining flows. And in coming months, we will be extending this capability in EMEA with the launch of a series of active ETFs in The UK and Europe. In terms of the institutional business, we have some higher redemptions that included the previously announced limestone outflow.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

As we move forward, we're adding more CLOs and earning key equity fixed income and hedge fund mandates across regions as we had some good results in terms of cross sell and deepening relationships with current clients. In asset management, we continue to manage expenses extremely well. We're driving efforts to realign resources, streamline systems and enhance our processes in The U. S. And globally.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We're significantly transforming the business while at the same time maintaining our fee rate. Asset management margin was 39% in the quarter at the top end of our target range, up nicely from our expense discipline. For Ameriprise overall, our complement of businesses has enabled us to perform very well over different environments and market cycles. Overall, we continue to generate very strong free cash flow and we have one of the highest returns on equity at more than 50%. We're also having a good balance of share buybacks and dividends.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And we continue to return to shareholders in a significant way and we'll be looking to increase and targeting an 85% payout ratio for the balance of the year. I'd highlight that Ameriprise received some new recognition that adds to the portfolio of accolades that we've earned. We were recently recognized in 2025 by Kiplinga's Reader's Choice Award for outstanding overall satisfaction, quality of advice, trustworthy advisors, and for being the most recommended among wealth managers. And second, Ameriprise was also named one of America's most innovative companies 2,025 by Fortune. Looking forward, we feel very good about our ability to continue to manage and adjust for the environment.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We're staying focused on our strategic priorities and generating good returns for the business. Now Walter will provide additional color on our financials. Walter?

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Thank you, Jim. Ameriprise delivered continued solid performance with exceptional balance sheet strength in a volatile and uncertain environment. Adjusted operating EPS increased 7% to $9.11 with a strong margin of 27%. Adjusted operating net revenues increased 4% to $4,300,000,000 from asset growth, while absorbing the market and rate impacts across our businesses. Expense discipline remains strong from our ongoing firm wide transformation initiatives.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Year to date G and A expenses improved 3% and we will maintain G and A expenses at this level for the remainder of the year. It was a solid quarter across our businesses and we'll get into the details of our segment results on the upcoming slides. As we exited the quarter, our balance sheet fundamentals remain very strong and we are well positioned to navigate potential volatility going forward. A stable 90% free cash flow generation across our segments combined with our strong balance sheet fundamentals enabled us to return 81% of operating earnings to shareholders in the quarter. We remain committed to returning capital to shareholders at a differentiated pace and plan to increase our payout ratio to 85 for the second half of the year.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

On slide six, you'll see the EPS growth of 7% was impacted by the market dynamics in the quarter. Assets under management, administration and advisement increased to a record high of $1,600,000,000,000 benefiting from strong wealth management client flows over the past year and equity market appreciation. We delivered strong profitability with consolidated margin of 27% from 4% revenue growth and continued expense discipline. We continue to generate a best in class return on equity of 52%. On slide seven, you see the solid metric results from wealth management given the elevated market volatility and normal seasonal tax payment trends.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Revenue per advisor grew 11% to a new high of 1,100,000.0 This resulted from 11% increase in client assets to 1,100,000,000,000.0, with client net inflows of 34,000,000,000 over the past year. Wrap assets were up 15% to $615,000,000,000, with RAP flows at $33,000,000,000 over the past year, representing a 6% annualized flow rate consistent with the prior year. With the volatility in the early part of the quarter and tax season in April, we saw slower flows in the second quarter following a strong first quarter. In total this year, route flows have been $14,000,000,000 consistent with the prior year. In addition, transactional activity levels remain strong.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Cash sweep balances were in line with expectations at $27,400,000,000 compared to $28,600,000,000 in the prior quarter, reflecting normal seasonal tax payments. We are seeing nice momentum in our experienced advisor recruiting. Being affiliated with a firm that has an excellent reputation and strong balance sheet fundamentals is attractive to advisors, particularly in the volatility and uncertain environments we've seen this year. Advisers find our value proposition to be compelling, and we are focused on making sure our transition factors are attractive to experienced advisers that share our values and commitment to the client experience. On Slide eight, you'll see strong financial results from Wealth Management.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Adjusted operating net revenues increased 6% to $2,800,000,000 Revenue growth benefited from strong cumulative RAP net inflows and market appreciation over the past year, which more than offset lower spread revenues and the impact from unfavorable markets within the quarter. Adjusted operating expenses in the quarter increased 9% with distribution expenses up 10%, reflecting growth in advisor productivity. G and A expenses increased 6% to $435,000,000 in the quarter, which was a result from higher growth investments and volume related expenses due to business growth. However, for the year, we expect low to mid single digit growth in G and A. Pretax adjusted operating earnings were $812,000,000 which included the impact on wrap assets from the dip in equity markets in April.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

However, we saw a substantial recovery in the equity markets by the June, which positions us well as we enter the third quarter. In fact, advisory wrap assets on June 30 were 6% higher than the average for the second quarter. We saw a continued strong contribution from both core and cash earnings in the quarter. Our core earnings grew in the low to mid single digit range after absorbing the market impact in the quarter. Cash earnings saw a high single digit decline from the impact of the Fed funds effective rate reduction since the latter part of 2024.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Our strategy leveraging Ameriprise Bank has been important in minimizing the impact from Fed funds effective rate reductions on our AWM business. In fact, we continue to see a modest increase in net investment income in the bank this quarter. Margins remain best in class at 29. Turning to Asset Management on slide nine. Financial results were solid in the quarter.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Operating earnings increased 2% to $222,000,000 This strong quarter reflected equity market appreciation and the positive impact from expense management actions, partially offset by the impact of net outflows. Total assets under management and advisement increased to €690,000,000,000 up both for year over year and sequentially from higher ending market levels. Revenues were $830,000,000 with a stable fee rate of 46 basis points. Adjusted operating expenses improved 3%. And importantly, G and A expenses improved 5%.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

As Jim said, we are proactively driving operational transformation across our global footprint, including leveraging capabilities across Ameriprise. And the benefits from these initiatives is evidenced in our G and A expense reductions. Margins reached 39% in the quarter, which is at the high end of our target range. Let's turn to slide 10. Retirement and Protection Solutions continued to deliver strong earnings and free cash flow generation, reflecting the high quality of the business that was built over a long period of time.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Pretax adjusted operating earnings in the quarter increased 9% to $214,000,000 The strong and consistent performance of the business reflects the benefits from favorable life claims, strong interest earnings and higher equity markets. These high quality books of business continue to generate strong free cash flow with excellent risk adjusted returns and continue to be an important contributor to the diversified business model. Overall, Retirement and Protection Solutions sales were solid at 1,400,000,000.0 Structured annuity sales remained strong, but were down relative to a very strong level in the prior year. Turning to the balance sheet on slide 11. Balance sheet fundamentals and free cash flow generation remain strong.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

We have an excellent excess capital position of $2,300,000,000 above regulatory requirements and we have $2,100,000,000 of available liquidity. And our investment portfolio is diversified and high quality. We have diversified sources of dividends from all of our businesses enabled by strong underlying fundamentals. This supports our ability to consistently return capital to shareholders and invest for future business growth. Ameriprise's consistent capital return strategy drives long term shareholder value.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

In summary on Slide 12, Ameriprise delivered solid results in the second quarter, which is a continuation of our long track record navigating various market environments. Over the last twelve months, revenues grew 8%, adjusted EPS increased 13%, return on equity grew two forty basis points, and we returned $3,000,000,000 of capital to shareholders. We had similar growth trends over the past five years with 8% compounded annual revenue growth, 17% compounded annual EPS growth, return on equity improving 16 percentage points and we returned over $12,000,000,000 of capital to shareholders. These trends are consistent over the long term as well. This differentiated performance across multiple cycles speaks to the complementary nature of our business mix as well as our focus on profitable growth. With that, we'll take your questions.

Operator

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question comes from Steven Chubak from Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Steven Chubak
Managing Director at Wolfe Research LLC

Hi, good morning and thanks for taking my questions. So Jim, it's encouraging to hear your commentary on the recruitment backlog improving. I was hoping you could speak to some of the drivers of the software flows in 2Q recognizing a lot of that related to the Liberation Day lull? And are you seeing any indications of NNA reaccelerating back to that more normal mid single digit growth rate?

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So really at the beginning part of the quarter between the combination of the tax payments but also the liberation day, the flows you had the tax payments out, but then the flows did not bounce back because of the liberation and people a bit more on the sidelines. That started to recover as you got later in the quarter. But we're still seeing that pick up a little bit more as we get into July. There was also some lumpiness between the net inflow from some of the recruiting coming in versus some of the terms.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

I think there were some big checks that were a little irrational given. So it impacted a little lumpiness there for some of the outs that we had. Overall, we feel good about the overall positioning. The core client base continues to do well. But our base doesn't react so quickly to the markets.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And so it's more of an on average over time and we'll see that recover.

Steven Chubak
Managing Director at Wolfe Research LLC

That's great. And since you alluded Jim to some of the irrational behavior in this space, as I look at distribution expense within AWM that has steadily crept higher year on year. At the same time, one of your peers had alluded to some indications that there's some more rational behavior on TA, maybe less aggressive recruitment packages, at least from some of the sponsor backed firms in particular. Just curious if that's consistent with what you're seeing in the marketplace. And how should we be thinking about the year on year trajectory for the AWM distribution expense line in particular?

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So I think it's a combination.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

So let me explain the distribution and then I'll get to the recruiting. On the distribution, when we look at the average gross production that we have at the advisor base, it's up 9%. And that's what they get compensated on. And so if you look at that, that's up 9% versus the idea of total revenue being up 6% and because you got the cash business, etcetera. When you look at the production that matches and then you had a little more increase because people move to higher production levels, so their payout rates go up a bit.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And so that's bit the difference. Regarding the packages itself, that only had a small incremental piece of it year over year. It's a little bit, but it's not to the extent of what you're looking at as the total. Most of that's production based. And regarding to the recruitment package, you're right that there are some rationally, but there's still some people irrational, particularly for certain advisers that, you know, unless you have a perfect market going forward and high short term rates, etcetera, the economics got to look a little iffy.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

But sometimes people will take a huge check, particularly if it's way above what the normal economics will call for.

Steven Chubak
Managing Director at Wolfe Research LLC

Very helpful color. Thanks for taking my questions.

Operator

Our next question comes from Wilma Burdis from Raymond James. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Wilma Burdis
Wilma Burdis
Director at Raymond James Financial

Hey, good morning. Just to follow-up on the last question, maybe just talk a little bit more about the recruiting strategy, going forward? How you're seeing the market? How you expect to grow there? Thanks.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So, the pipeline looks like it's increased again, nicely, going through the the low period that we had now with inspections solved it. And we are really focused on selling our total value proposition, which is helping advisers grow their productivity. We have average higher productivity from our core adviser base than most that just associate advisers out there and say, you know, provided network services. We do a lot in capabilities that we provided with new technology, AI support, etcetera, in addition to the coaching training support we provide.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

So we feel good about that, and we do look to track certain types of advisers. We're not just looking to associate anyone by giving them a big check. And so we we do have to we had to raise our our packages a bit to be, you know, based on the competitive frame, but that that's where we bring it in alignment with how we can help people really grow and become more successful.

Wilma Burdis
Wilma Burdis
Director at Raymond James Financial

Thank you. And can you talk a little bit more about plans you're thinking right now? I know you talked a little bit about annuities being popular. How how are they kind of positioning themselves, and are you seeing them wanting to deploy? Thank you.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So if it's on the annuity business, what we see is a continuation of people being interested in the structured annuities as well as annuities because of the just the overall tax environment, etcetera, in annuities without living benefits. And those are the only two that we really have in the marketplace right now. We're not playing in the fixed annuity area. I know that's might have been an area.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We have other people on the shelf that we sell. But in that regard, we're focused on just those two areas and they are complementary as the people look at their retirement and long term income that they're looking to achieve.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Jeffrey Schmidt from William Blair. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Jeff Schmitt
Research Analyst - Financial Services and Technology at William Blair & Company, L.L.C

Hi, good morning. With top line growth flowing in wealth management, is there an opportunity to maybe get more aggressive on some of the outsourcing deals or to do larger outsourcing deals or even just get more aggressive on recruiting in general? Do you think about that?

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So I think what I would say is we are focused on the recruiting channel. And as I said, we have increased the competitive packages, etcetera, that we put in the marketplace just because of the competitive frame. In regard to I don't know if you meant outsourcing. I'm not exactly sure. I mean, as far as the institutional business that continues to do well and we're continuing to focus there as well as incremental.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We are focused on also some of our centralized channel business where we could work with clients beyond the locales of our current advisors and that we're starting to increase our activity there. And so those are the areas we're focused on. We have not looked at just rolling up adviser networks etcetera like others because we want to continue to maintain a very strong focus on how do we deliver a very good client experience, associate people who actually want to use the advice value proposition appropriately, etcetera, etcetera.

Jeff Schmitt
Research Analyst - Financial Services and Technology at William Blair & Company, L.L.C

Okay. That's helpful. And then on share buybacks, you mentioned you're targeting a payout ratio of 85 in the second half. Historically, it's actually moved higher than that in certain years, closer to 90%. Should we expect it to stay up at that level or maybe even move higher if top line weakness sort of continues next year?

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

So it's Walter. So as we indicated, our target is the 85%. We certainly have the capacity to and we'll evaluate that on an optimistic basis and see what's in the best interest of shareholders. But that is the current target that we have elevated for the second half.

Jeff Schmitt
Research Analyst - Financial Services and Technology at William Blair & Company, L.L.C

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Tom Gallagher from Evercore ISI. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thomas Gallagher
Senior Managing Director at Evercore

Good morning. Jim, just coming back to the competitive environment in AWM, would you just considering what's going on with competition and how it sounds like you think there's some irrationality to it, would you expect to shrink overall advisors in the next year or so? Or would you still expect to be able to grow?

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yeah. I mean, now, Tom, we are growing. I mean, we're not reporting like others don't report, but our net of eyes account is actually up. That's not a concern that we have per se. I think what I would probably say is, listen, people will put out more to buy up what they would call people putting on the system.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We look at it as a long term. We have a very strong business over time. I have 10,000 advisors that I look to really help them grow and keep their productivity strong through all market environments. We have good profitability of what we do where the advisor does well, the firm does well, etcetera, in a very consistent balance proposition and we deliver very strong value to that's what we're looking for. We're not just looking to like add people because we can show you short term top line growth and then suffer consequences later on or have some issues with the type of people being associated.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

So, I mean, others have different philosophies. I'm not saying their philosophy is incorrect. I'm just saying that's that's where we are. We always stick to this knitting. You know, in the past, we never even recruited externally.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We always developed internally. We're still doing that. But we do now a combination of both, and that's the way we look to maintain ourselves. And again, we'll be very competitive, but the development people get a little over the top, you know, they can do that. Maybe it works for them, but we don't look at it that way.

Thomas Gallagher
Senior Managing Director at Evercore

Okay. That's that's helpful. And then just a follow-up on RPS. The results in the quarter looked quite strong, I guess. Net investment income was up a lot sequentially.

Thomas Gallagher
Senior Managing Director at Evercore

Anything in particular going on there? It looks like mortality was favorable on the life insurance side. Just curious what you're seeing there. And then finally, any updates on potential risk transfer? You've had a bunch of peers doing different deals on long term care, well priced variable annuity deal. Any updated thoughts there? Thanks.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

That's Walter. Tom, so as it relates to strong fundamentals, you indicated, we did have an improvement on life claims, which certainly contributed to the increase. So we feel very good about certainly the overall underlying profitability drivers within the business.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

And as it relates to risk transfer, again, same thing we talk about is the business is solid. It really does contribute and we just haven't seen that bid ask change at all that really makes any sense from a shareholder standpoint.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And Tom, what I would say is and you really studied the industry well. And so what I would say is that this is one of the most profitable insurance businesses and protection businesses out in the industry. These are excellent books. They generate great free cash flow. The returns on equity are really high.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

The margin is very strong because we built good books over time. We only play in areas that we feel are both appropriate for us to be in, but we have all the other providers in the channel that have all of the other alternatives that people want to use. And so listen, if there's a good strategic relationship or something that makes sense, we will entertain it. But right now, I would probably say we generate a very good return on it that only complements the business.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Okay. Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Alex Blostein from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Alex Blostein
Alex Blostein
Managing Director at Goldman Sachs

Hey, good morning. Thank you. Two questions for you guys around the bank, it's kind of related. But one, I was hoping you guys can give us a sense of roll on roll off dynamics in the bank securities portfolio right now. Walter, as I recall, you guys put this in place in sizable amounts a couple of years ago, spreads were wider.

Alex Blostein
Alex Blostein
Managing Director at Goldman Sachs

So curious as that securities portfolio rolls over the next, call it, year or two, what kind of a spread difference you're seeing on the money you're putting on versus what's coming off? And secondly, heard you guys on the loan strategy. Obviously, that's an important part of the bank build out going forward. What's the funding structure for that? The deposits are running relatively light on balance sheet at this point.

Alex Blostein
Alex Blostein
Managing Director at Goldman Sachs

So as you sort of thinking about growing the loan book, how are you guys planning on funding it? Thanks.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Sure. So on the portfolio, as we see pay downs and maturities taking place, you should see a spread increase as it relates to that. That is certainly contributing towards the net interest income improvement year over year. So we feel comfortable with that and that's part of our strategy that we talked about that we've been executing certainly we talked about in the fourth quarter of the last year. As funding for it, we are certainly launching liability products that will fund it.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

And so we feel very comfortable with our ability to have that increasing and diversification of our liability portfolio as that grows and matching off onto the asset strategy that we have.

Alex Blostein
Alex Blostein
Managing Director at Goldman Sachs

And the liability product you're launching, is that kind of high yield savings CDs, things like that?

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. Have from that standpoint, yes.

Alex Blostein
Alex Blostein
Managing Director at Goldman Sachs

All right. Great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Our next question comes from Craig Siegenthaler from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Craig Siegenthaler
Craig Siegenthaler
Managing Director at Bank of America

Hey. Good morning, Jim. Hope everyone is doing well. My question is on recruiting the wealth management business, and I know you got a few on this topic. But, a news source supported that Ameriprise is offering up to a 125% of trailing revenue for Commonwealth Advisors.

Craig Siegenthaler
Craig Siegenthaler
Managing Director at Bank of America

So I'm curious if you can comment on Ameriprise's ability to take advantage of current M and A disruption and if we could see a pickup in recruitment from this.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yeah. We don't comment on represent the marketplace of what people comment. What we would say is we continue to recruit out in the environment more broadly. And we offer relatively appropriate competitive packages. But as I said, we sell the entire value proposition for people that really want the support, the technology, the capabilities.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

When advisers join us from the competitors, no matter who they are, they rate everything they get from them at nine times out of 10 as being better than where they came from, particularly on our technology suite, the support, etcetera, our availability of technology, the idea of even how to get onboarded and uptake what we do that helps their business. The people we brought onboard, their productivity improvements have been tremendous coming to us. So after being here for a few years. So, that's what we would say and that's what we recruit on.

Craig Siegenthaler
Craig Siegenthaler
Managing Director at Bank of America

Thanks, Jim. Just for my follow-up, another wealth manager question. But, can you update us on your bank and credit union pipeline? I'm just curious if we could get some lumpy wins, announcements in the second half. Thanks.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. The pipeline looks good. I won't comment on anything in particular, but we feel good about our position in the business there. And we continue to, as I would say, build that pipeline and try to execute and get some deals done.

Craig Siegenthaler
Craig Siegenthaler
Managing Director at Bank of America

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from John Bartage from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

John Barnidge
John Barnidge
Managing Director & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is around asset management and flow performance. I know there were some comments about higher redemptions even when reflecting the lion's stone AUM that left. Can you maybe talk about large client breakage in the quarter distribution environment, what your outlook is for the pipeline converting? Thank you.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yes. So on the if you're referencing a little bit on the institutional, as you know, the institution is always going to be a little lumpy. And we did experience some outflows as you mentioned from the Lionstone termination of that business, some LDI and things like that, Some move to people repositioning their portfolios including some that moved a little more to the passive arena. But we are getting some nice underlying wins in good products in the various equities and portfolios like that. But the redemption increase that we did see in the second quarter sort of outstripped that from some of those other things I just mentioned.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Now on the retail side, we did see we've done really good on the gross sales pickup through the first quarter. Again, what happened is through that April period, things on the gross slowed down, redemptions picked up. Now sales have picked up again on the gross side, but the redemptions that. I think you saw that in the pure active space. I'm not talking about where people have ETFs and stuff like that that picked up a little quicker because of the trading they do.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

But we see a pickup there. And overall, we feel good about some of the things that we're doing in the market, some of the products we're putting. We're launching some additional ETFs even in Europe now. We're going to do that. We're putting out a bit more on the CLOs.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We just launched an interval fund. So we're starting to do some more product development than launch in combination and SMAs continues to build for us. So those are the areas, but I would say it was a little more volatile period on the redemption side. And as I looked at the competitive frame, it was no different against the pure actives there.

John Barnidge
John Barnidge
Managing Director & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Thank you for that answer. And my follow-up question, with the focus on the recruitment environment and being competitive and packages that need to come over and clearly a focus on general and administrative expenses, Can you maybe talk about how the company weighs adding human capital versus automating an AI? Is there an internal process to determine whether you wanna add it or it can be automated or using a offshore center of excellence to kind of fund that more competitive recruitment environment? Thank you.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Yeah. It's a it's a good question. What we consistently do is invest in technology. And what we try to really do in that regard, like, investments in AI and giving our advisors more informed dashboards about their practice, what they can do, where the opportunities opportunities may be. We also do intelligent automation for processing and other activities that we do.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We invest in what I would call more in the data and analytics side on the information that we can process and how to bring that information to bear. And so all those things have been adding to our capabilities. As we do that, we've been able to adjust some of our expense base. Some of it is offshore. Some of it is just where we then use that money for the investments that we've been making.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And so our investment base is very strong. We have driven good productivity improvements. We think there's still good opportunities for further improvements as we get our advisors to uptake more of the tools and capabilities more fully and use some of the servicing that we put in place. So that's the way we look at it. We don't necessarily just do a one for one trade off, but over time we continue to transform, adjust the business and reinvest.

John Barnidge
John Barnidge
Managing Director & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Michael Cyprys from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Michael Cyprys
Michael Cyprys
Managing Director at Morgan Stanley

Hey. Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Maybe just circling back on recruiting. I was hoping maybe you could elaborate a little bit on how you're seeing the pipeline, the opportunities that across the different affiliation channels where you operate in the marketplace, how you see the mix of that business evolving as you look out?

Michael Cyprys
Michael Cyprys
Managing Director at Morgan Stanley

And then just related to that, on the distribution expense, certainly, Matt, to to chew back question. Just on that distribution expense ratio relative to the commensurable revenue picked up compared to, like, the low sixties percent years ago. You know, I think it's getting to, like, high sixties now, nearly 67% in the quarter, up a 120 basis points or so year on year. Maybe just remind us, like, what's driving that mix over a multiyear arc of time? And how do you see the different contributing factors?

Michael Cyprys
Michael Cyprys
Managing Director at Morgan Stanley

And as you look out from here, is this a good run rate to be thinking about? Or what would drive that higher as we move forward?

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Okay. So let me, I'll take the first and part of the second and then we'll look and complement that. On the first, we have a broad way that we do look to recruit. So a combination of independence wires, regionals, etcetera, both independent and employee type things as well as you mentioned in the 8 figure institutional channel. And so we just look for appropriate advisors that really can really uptake our type of value proposition, want that, want to grow their productivity, and that's what we focus on.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We just don't gobble up and roll up people and just associate network with big checks to just put people on. So that's what we do. The pipeline looks very good for the third quarter and that's proceeding. And so we feel good about that. And we got to the distribution expense.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Some of the distribution expense has picked up because of a lot of, you know, what you would, first of all, manage expenses. So SMAs, other things that we the expense for that is in the in the bottom line. There's a lot more trading activities from all the wrap type activities, all that. So all of that is booked in the volume. You got FDIC insurance, all that shit stuff that goes on there.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

And I'll turn it over for Walter for some of the

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

So, basically, it is consistent. And when you it is impacted on mark to market on the advisory deferred comp, and that's what takes it up and down. But we are staying fairly consistent within that point, the 60.666% as we indicated, so you correlate it. So it is consistent, but it does go up and down based on movement on deferred comp.

Michael Cyprys
Michael Cyprys
Managing Director at Morgan Stanley

It sounds like you wouldn't expect that to move meaningfully higher from here, from that 66, 67% level?

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

It should stay in that range, definitely, for sure. Again, subject to deferred comp, which we'll take it. I'll put it down.

Michael Cyprys
Michael Cyprys
Managing Director at Morgan Stanley

Okay. Thank you.

Walter Berman
Walter Berman
EVP & CFO at Ameriprise Financial

Thank you. You're welcome.

Operator

Our last question today will come from Suneet Kamath from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Suneet Kamath
Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc

Great. Thanks. I appreciate all the questions on recruiting on the call. But if I think back to some of your comments in the past, I'd always thought that most of the growth in A and WM comes from your existing advisers, you know, selling business to their existing clients and then existing advisers finding new clients. And then the third piece was the the new advisers.

Suneet Kamath
Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc

So I'm not expecting you to give me specific numbers, but is that the right way to think about it in terms of order of magnitude, in terms of what drives the growth? And is there any additional color you can give us on the mix? That would be helpful. Thanks.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

No, Cindy, you're 100% correct. That has not changed. Core growth of our business comes from the organic part of adding new business from our advisors, new clients, flows from current clients, etcetera. The on the top of that, you always have some lumpiness of where when you add recruits versus where you have some terms, etcetera, where those things happen. And on that basis, it's always been more positive.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

What I'm saying in the second quarter, you had some undue level of volatility that affected the flow picture because second quarter is usually weaker anyway with the tax payments, etcetera. So you had that plus you had the weakness because of tariff situation at the beginning of the month as that starts to had an effect. And then on top of that, as I said, we had a little more lumpiness on the competitive frame. But the underlying consistent then if you look at it over quarters, it's been very consistent and strong. So I think as Walter even said, if you look at the first half of the year, it looks fine.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

When you look at the second quarter, it looks a little lower.

Suneet Kamath
Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc

Okay. That makes sense. And then

Suneet Kamath
Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc

I guess that maybe a bigger picture question to end the call. If I think about Ameriprise over time, I mean, I think we're approaching the twenty year anniversary from the spin and, you know, notwithstanding today's stock price, I think by all measures, it's been an incredible success. I guess the question is how is the board thinking about the next five to ten years? Is is the next layer of management sort of identified and in place? Does Ameriprise do any significant strategic pivots in terms of perhaps

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

twentieth in September, our twentieth year anniversary. And if you think about it, when we came public and all through the financial crisis, etcetera, people really didn't continue to believe that we would be one. And since to that time, we've been the number one best performing financial out of the S and P financials, 500 financials out of all of them and all the sectors there. Our combination that we always get challenged on, the combination of our business has been very successful, higher earnings and lower volatility than any one of these individual segments. So you go through market environments where one business segment does a little better because people hop on it.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

But overall, we generate very strong return to shareholders, very strong cash flow we generate. The business itself is very good and strong core against it. We have one of the premium value proposition, premium brands out in the marketplace for the businesses that we're in. We created a global asset manager from a proprietary house. I mean, if you look at it, you know, there's always questions quarter to quarter or what the competitive frame, etcetera.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

But go back to all those years, you've been a strong follower of us and you've had it right for a long time. I would say the board feels very good about that position that we're in today. We're stronger than we ever been before. We're at a $50,000,000,000 market cap from being coming out at 6 or 8 or whatever the number was at the time. And so a lot of the larger competitors at the time who are much larger are now either smaller than us or not as strong.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

So I would probably say we're in a great position and that's the way I think both myself and the board. We do have succession. We always look at the next levels of talent, not just one level, but down. So no, we feel very good. And all the accolades we can get, one of the best managed companies, most innovative companies, All these things just proved to our strength.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

We got rated one of the best wealth managers again, trust for the advisors, serving our clients well. All those things that people miss them and we're focused on whether it's a recruit or this or that per quarter. But I think if you follow us long term, you'll find that this is a very good strong company that operates with high level of focus, integrity, client service and client satisfaction.

Suneet Kamath
Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc

Yes. I appreciate that. I mean, that's certainly been our view and it's good to hear you express that. So thanks very much.

James Cracchiolo
James Cracchiolo
Chairman & CEO at Ameriprise Financial

Thank you, Suneet.

Operator

We have no further questions at this time. This concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

Executives
Analysts
    • Steven Chubak
      Managing Director at Wolfe Research LLC
    • Wilma Burdis
      Director at Raymond James Financial
    • Jeff Schmitt
      Research Analyst - Financial Services and Technology at William Blair & Company, L.L.C
    • Thomas Gallagher
      Senior Managing Director at Evercore
    • Alex Blostein
      Managing Director at Goldman Sachs
    • Craig Siegenthaler
      Managing Director at Bank of America
    • John Barnidge
      Managing Director & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies
    • Michael Cyprys
      Managing Director at Morgan Stanley
    • Suneet Kamath
      Senior Research Analyst at Jefferies & Company Inc
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