Cascades Q1 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
May 7, 2026

Key Takeaways

  • Negative Sentiment: Q1 results were in line with the revised outlook but below prior guidance due to severe weather, geopolitical events, weak consumer confidence and execution inefficiencies that lowered volumes and raised costs.
  • Positive Sentiment: Operational improvements are gaining traction — Bear Island ran at ~92% capacity the first four months with a record April, Greenpac exceeded design output (~106%), and a prior tissue plant improved production 17% in Q1 (23% in April), supporting future margin recovery.
  • Negative Sentiment: Segment profitability was pressured: packaging adjusted EBITDA fell 22% sequentially to CAD 103M and tissue EBITDA declined 21% to CAD 33M, while adjusted EPS was CAD 0.07, driven by higher logistics, chemical and energy costs.
  • Positive Sentiment: Balance-sheet progress: Cascades realized CAD 91M of asset-sale proceeds in the quarter (CAD 149M over five quarters) and is on track to reach its CAD 230M disposal target by end‑Q3, using proceeds to reduce debt and preserve liquidity.
  • Neutral Sentiment: Outlook: management expects Q2 to be slightly weaker with continued cost headwinds but targets a back‑half CAD 600M adjusted EBITDA run rate based on implemented pricing and operational initiatives, while acknowledging leverage may remain above target through year‑end.
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Earnings Conference Call
Cascades Q1 2026
00:00 / 00:00

There are 8 speakers on the call.

Speaker 5

Good morning. My name is Julie, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Cascades 1st quarter 2026 financial results conference call. All lines are currently in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. I will now pass the call over to Jennifer Aitken, Director of Investor Relations for Cascades. Ms. Hedgpeth, please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our first quarter 2026 conference call. We will begin with an overview of our operational and financial results, followed by some concluding remarks, after which we will begin the question period. Today's speakers will be Hugues Simon, President and CEO, and Allan Hogg, CFO. Before turning over the call, I would like to highlight that certain statements made during this call will discuss historical and forward-looking matters. The accuracy of these statements is subject to risk factors that can have a material impact on actual results. These risks are listed in our public filings. These statements, the investor presentation, and the press release also include data that are not measures of performance under IFRS. Please refer to our Q1 2026 investor presentation for details.

Speaker 3

This presentation, along with our first quarter press release, is found in the investors section of our website. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us after the session. I will now turn the call over to our CEO, Hugues Simon, who will begin with the review of our Q1 performance. Hugues?

Speaker 2

Thank you, Jennifer, good morning, everyone. Overall, the first quarter was in line with our revised outlook but was below the initial expectations we communicated with our Q4 results. We discussed when we updated our outlook in mid-April, several factors outside the initial assumptions contributed to this. Combination of severe weather disruptions across our platform, recent geopolitical events, and a negative consumer confidence trend impacted our volumes and accelerated inflation. We also made reference to some execution inefficiencies. These included delays in onboarding new volumes and longer than planned annual maintenance downtime in packaging. Complexity within our logistics network was further compounded by a tight transportation market in both of our segments. These inefficiencies are temporary and are being addressed. Our ambitious strategic initiatives are focused on areas we control.

Speaker 2

The objective is to have a more resilient platform, given an environment that will continue to be impacted by geopolitical uncertainties and extreme weather events. The speed with which we adapt to these type of macro changes is a priority. Ensuring that our business is more agile will provide our customers with best-in-class products and the best-in-class service. To this end, we're making significant progress from an operational standpoint. I'm very pleased with what we've achieved so far. We had a solid quarter at Bear Island. Including annual plant maintenance downtime, the mill operated at 92% of its total production capacity in the first four months of 2026, including a record month in April in terms of speed, uptime, and overall tonnage.

Speaker 2

At our Greenpac facility, we gained 5 percentage points on availability in the quarter versus 2025. The first quarter production level was equivalent to an annual output of 575,000 tons, 6% above its initial design capacity. At our prior tissue facility, we improved production output by 17% in Q1 2026 and 23% in the month of April when compared to Q3 2025 levels, which was the starting point of our improvement plan in this facility. While these are just a few examples, my intent is to provide you with an idea of what we're doing in terms of things we can control. Aside from operation, strengthening our logistics network to be more efficient and agile and accelerating onboarding of new volume gains we have secured with key customers in packaging are other good examples.

Speaker 2

In tissue, we are centered on improving productivity in our retail business to increase volume with our strategic customers. Continue to remain focused on our balance sheet. Our objective of proceeds from asset monetization is progressing well, as demonstrated by the CAD 91 million realized in the quarter. Raw material index prices increased marginally on a sequential basis but remain lower than the prior year period. Exception to this were hardwood pulp and eucalyptus, which increased 6% and 7% from Q1 of last year. Delivered cost of raw materials to our mills were further impacted by recent transportation disruptions and fuel cost increases. Provide an overview of average quarterly costs and trends on slide 6 and 7. Moving now to the results of our business segments, which are highlighted on slide 8 through 13 of the presentation. In packaging, sales decreased 6% sequentially.

Speaker 2

This reflects lower volumes in corrugated and specialty products driven by seasonality, macro volatility, business disposition, and changes in customer mix and sales mix from our converted products. Including the box plant on the West Coast that was sold in the first quarter, box shipments decreased 5.7% below the industry's comparable of 3% decrease. First quarter adjusted EBITDA decreased 22% sequentially to CAD 103 million. This was driven by lower volume and by important increases in operating costs, including logistics, chemical, and energy. Current maintenance costs were also higher sequentially, reflecting planned maintenance outages. Year-over-year sales in this business decreased by 6%. This was driven by lower volumes that reflects the sales of a facility and a decrease in corrugated shipments due to softer demand. Higher selling prices and favorable mix partially offset these impacts.

Speaker 2

The same basis, box shipments decreased 1.9%, slightly below the industry's comparable of 1.6% decrease. The EBITDA also decreased 6% year-over-year for the same reason I just explained. These impacts more than offset selling price and raw material costs tailwinds. Moving now to our tissue segment. Sales decreased by 7% sequentially, reflecting usual seasonality. Sequential shipments in the away-from-home market decreased 10%, while retail shipments decreased by 3%. Adjusted EBITDA of CAD 33 million decreased 21% sequentially. This level was slightly below forecast due to higher operating costs following important cost pressure, most notably coming from transportation and fuel. Lower volumes were expected due to usual seasonality. These impacts were partially offset by benefits from lower raw material costs and higher selling prices. Year-over-year sales increased 4%.

Speaker 2

This was driven by an 11% increase in retail product shipments and a 6% increase in shipments of away from home, underscoring the growing traction of our commercial initiatives. Adjusted EBITDA decreased 11% from last year, with benefits from raw material costs, volume and higher selling prices more than offset by operating cost headwinds. I'll now pass the call to Allan, who will briefly discuss some of the financial highlights. Allan?

Operator

Thank you, Hugues, and good morning, everyone. Let's start with the specific items recorded during the quarter which impacted operating income by CAD 34 million on slides 14 and 15. The main items were gains totaling CAD 49 million from the sale of assets in Canada, reflecting the company's ongoing optimization initiatives. We're also recording the first quarter, CAD 8 million of impairment charges related to a previously closed facility in the U.S., CAD 3 million of restructuring costs related to saving initiative, and lastly, a loss of CAD 4 million on financial instruments. Slides 16 and 17 illustrate the year-over-year and sequential variance of our Q1 adjusted earnings per share and the reconciliation with the specific items that affected our quarterly results. Reported Q1 net earnings per share were CAD 0.38 compared to net earnings per share of CAD 0.07 last year and CAD 0.37 per share in the previous quarter.

Operator

On an adjusted basis, net earnings per share were CAD 0.07 in the current quarter. This compared to net earnings per share of CAD 0.13 last year and CAD 0.40 in the fourth quarter of 2025. The year-over-year decrease was driven primarily by lower adjusted EBITDA in the current quarter. As highlighted on slide 18, first quarter adjusted cash flow from operations was CAD 59 million, slightly down from CAD 62 million in the year-ago period. Includes cash flow proceeds from the sale of assets. Slide 19 provides detail about our capital investments for the first quarter total CAD 28 million. In 2026, we expect CapEx to be in the range of approximately CAD 150 million-CAD 175 million. Moving now to our net debt reconciliation as detailed on slide 20.

Operator

Sequentially, net debt increased marginally by CAD 5 million in the first quarter, mainly due to usual working capital requirements, a less favorable exchange rate on our U.S.-denominated debt, and lease renewals. Proceeds from business and asset disposal reduced debt levels by CAD 91 million. Our leverage ratio was unchanged at 3.3 times, and our available liquidity under our credit facility stood at CAD 738 million at the end of the quarter. During the first quarter of 2026, we announced the sale of our Richmond facility from equipment following the exit from the uneconomic partition business segments and private forest lands. Total cash proceeds received of CAD 91 million have gone towards debt repayment in the first quarter. Including this amount, we have generated total proceeds of CAD 149 million from the sale of assets over the past 5 quarters.

Operator

Continue to expect to achieve our CAD 230 million targeted level by the end of the third quarter of 2026, slightly ahead of schedule. Financial ratios and information about maturities are detailed on slide 21. Additional information and analysis can be found on slides 25 through 23 of the presentation. I will now pass the call back to Hugues, who will conclude with some brief comments before we begin the question period. Hugues?

Speaker 2

Thank you, Allan. We provide our outlook for Q2 on slide 22. We're expecting our consolidated results to be slightly lower sequentially, driven by a cautious outlook for volumes in our packaging segment, reflecting the continued macro uncertainty, cost pressure, and lower consumer confidence. Volumes in tissue are forecasted to be higher following usual seasonal softness in Q1 and new retail volume with strategic customers. On the cost side, we currently expect logistics, chemicals, and raw material cost levels to be higher across our business segments. Before opening the call to questions, I'd like to emphasize that while Q2 will be a period of margin pressure, we expect growing traction from ongoing initiative to drive a stronger performance in the second half of it. As the dynamic macroeconomic and geopolitical environment continues to put pressure on input costs and consumer sentiment, operational resiliency is paramount.

Speaker 2

Working in tandem with this is keeping the customer at the center of everything we do, from speed of execution to quality of service. Commercially, we're winning in the markets where we want to grow. Our sales teams are aligned and are delivering on the strategy. Our product offering is best in class, and our focus is to ensure that our execution is also. We expect these actions, combined with the rollout of the net CAD 50 price increase published by RISI and other pricing initiatives, to realign results in the second half of the year towards our targeted annualized run rate of CAD 600 million of adjusted EBITDA. We are also on track to achieve our objective of generating a total of CAD 230 million of proceeds from asset sales by the end of the third quarter, slightly ahead of schedule.

Speaker 2

Our leverage ratio target of 2.5 to 3 times remains unchanged. It may be difficult to achieve by year-end, given expectation for the first half of 2020. We continue to prioritize debt reduction to reinforce financial flexibility and position the company for future growth opportunities. With that, we can now open the call to questions. Operator?

Speaker 5

Merci. Si vous voulez poser une question, veuillez s'il vous plaît composer l'étoile suivi du un sur votre clavier téléphonique. Pour retirer votre question, composez l'étoile suivi du deux. Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, please press Star, then the number 1 on your telephone keypad. If you'd like to withdraw your question, please press star 2. Again, if you have a question, press star, then the number 1 on your telephone keypad. We'll pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from Hamir Patel from National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Good morning, and thank you for taking my question. Based on your commentary around the CAD 600 million EBITDA run rate in the back half of the year, can you give us a bit more color on that? Are you expecting that peak recovery step up to be evenly distributed between Q3 and Q4? Are pricing actions fully sufficient to restore margins here, or do you still need cost deflation to kind of hit that CAD 600 million run rate?

Speaker 2

Yes, thank you for your question. What we're looking right now in the second quarter is a period of adjustment where we're implementing dollar net that we discussed on call with RISI. We're looking at geopolitical and cost pressure to continue, but with the implementation going back to a run rate of CAD 600 million in the back half of the year includes the CAD 50 that's already announced and implemented with the RISI publication. It does not include any further pricing announcement. We've announced to our customers additional pricing in the month of May, effective in June. That's not part of this, the CAD 600 million.

Speaker 2

We do expect cost pressure to continue in the remaining of the year as well. Not to the peak level they've reached, if you look at fuel at 110 earlier this week and below that level today. We expect those cost pressure to continue, so not to go back to the 2025 level. We're being very cautious with the U.S. We're trying to push our suppliers as much as we can with pricing index that would look like fuel surcharge. When fuel goes back down, our cost structure goes back down. We remain very cautious given, like, the ever-changing tone between the U.S. and the Middle East and consumer confidence is impacted. We're also being cautious on volume as well.

Speaker 7

Thanks. Just on that kind of pricing initiative, can you give us some color on some of the customer pushback or volume elasticity that you're seeing on these recent price increases you've announced, particularly in packaging, where volumes seem soft? Additionally, you had mentioned that fuel surcharges were being considered. How successful has that been in the industry? At Cascades as well.

Speaker 2

We're, it's not equal, depending of the type of customers and if we, if we split the issue with packaging. If we focus here, based on your question on packaging, we're pushing more on the price increase versus fuel, like in the big scheme of things, with the implementation of the CAD 50 that we just announced. We're very tight in rolls, the implementation of the CAD 50 is not an issue for us. It's, it's tight enough with additional inflation that we've announced an additional price increase effective in June. I'm not going to comment on this one.

Speaker 2

It was announced earlier this week, so it's very preliminary, but when you look at the order files that we have in rolls, it's something that we feel is one necessary and that the market, we're positive about the market reaction on that. From a box standpoint, you're right that, I mean, we've seen softness in box. We've had a, you know, difficult winter as far as extreme weather events here and there. We have a pretty late spring in many of the regions where we operate. If you remember, the most of the box making that we have is in Eastern Canada, so we are seeing some softness. We are winning on the market and we're gaining market share where we wanna grow.

Speaker 2

Our focus is on the execution on onboarding those new volumes. We talked about some execution improvements that we needed. A big focus for us is to accelerate onboarding of new customers, given the fact that we've secured those volume. We are in a soft market, but our product offering is good, and customers wanna grow with us. That we have to do better and I mean, we're improving rather quickly. If I had to give you comments today versus a month and a half ago, I'm very pleased with the improvements that we're doing.

Speaker 1

Thank you for the color. I'll pass the line.

Speaker 5

Your next question comes from Sean Steuart from TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Question on OCC costs. We've seen prices pick up so far this year. Can you give some context on the strength and appreciating it's off a low base and any visibility on further pressure as we head into the summer?

Speaker 2

Great, great question. Recently we saw a CAD 5 roughly across the board where we have operation of increase in OCC. It was slightly more in the Western U.S., which does not have an impact for Cascades. Obviously, when box demand is lower, the generation of OCC is lower as well. It's putting some cost pressure on people that are recycling boxes, which we are a big player in. We have a good idea of the flavor of the cost impact on that part. At the same time, the export of OCC in Asia is a lot lower as well, more OCC remains into the U.S.

Speaker 2

We don't see a big push on additional pricing in OCC, although when we forecast the remaining of the year, we're being cautious. What we're seeing now is that, you know, we had the low generation. That's not unusual early in the year. Like the whole post-Christmas from end of January to April and May is soft. We are counting on some seasonal pickup for the month of May to December on volume. Nothing more than usual, probably a bit less. To see maybe some small changes in some pockets of different geography is possible, no significant pressure on volume availability.

Speaker 6

Thanks for that detail. Wanna follow up on your comments with respect to relative tightness in the board market and I guess a more cautious outlook on the corrugated box piece of it. A number of your U.S. peers has indicated line of sight on year-over-year box volumes starting to rebound in the second half of the year, some seemingly more optimistic than others. Any sense on how your box order book is shaping up, if there's any reason for optimism? Some of your U.S. peers seem to think that there is.

Speaker 2

I mean, when I look at what we're doing with our sales strategy, as I mentioned before, we're winning in markets we wanna grow. We're winning. We're trying to push on more resilient volume that have left less of an impact. Yes, I'm optimistic. From a financial standpoint, we remain cautious just given all the geopolitical that's going on around the world. We also have the USMCA that is coming for more discussions later in June and will probably last for most of the summer. We're not worried about it, we look at consumer sentiment with all of the inflation that the consumer is seeing.

Speaker 2

We remain cautious, but we are ready and will be able to take any additional volume that the market will provide if our assumptions are too pessimistic. For us, really is we're making a plan so that the level of activity that we see in the economy today remains difficult, but we're ready for the uptick if and when that happens.

Speaker 6

Understood. One last quick question, for Allan, the debt maturity schedule, I guess term loans expiring over the next year and then some senior notes in 2028, can you give some perspective on how you're thinking about refinancing those maturities and what the current environment looks like for terms on that front?

Operator

Yes. The next maturity is in 2027, the term loan, which is part of our credit agreement. We are in discussion right now to defer that, to refinance that, refinance the maturity. For now, there's no same conditions, so we don't expect any negative condition. The 2028

Speaker 2

We'll look at our cash flow profile. We can call these bonds at par right now. We are not using our line of credit. There's also a sale of assets that we want to target in our objectives. All of this we can call a portion of the bonds, and then we'll look at, do we refinance or do we do other alternatives. I think we have a couple of scenarios. We have flexibility. That's what we want to have, and we'll address that until the end of this year, we'll look at that closely.

Speaker 6

Okay. That's all I have for now. Thanks very much.

Speaker 5

Your next question comes from Hamir Patel from CIBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Hi. Good morning. Hugues, I just wanted to ask more about the sort of CAD 600 million run rate that you're pointing to being back at in the back half. Just trying to reconcile that. I mean, in, you know, 2025 you did call it CAD 575 million. You have this CAD 100 million profitability program where you're targeting CAD 200 million. The formal target's CAD 100 million, I think there is CAD 30 million was achieved in 2025, so you've got, call it CAD 70 million to go from there added to the CAD 575 million. We've had the CAD 50 net price hike on your sensitivity table. That's approximately CAD 105 million. That would seem to get you to around CAD 750 million off EBITDA.

Speaker 1

I know to an earlier question you kind of pointed you're not assuming a material pickup in OCC prices. Just trying to bridge that CAD 600 million to sort of CAD 750 million delta. How much of that is weakness in tissue versus 2025, and how much of it is some of these other cost buckets that you alluded to?

Speaker 2

Yeah, thank you, Hamir. I mean, you know, when you look at headwinds versus tailwinds, we have a similar, you know, tracking of finance of the potential of the company when we execute everything well with some tailwind. Definitely the potential for us. You know, if we go back a year on productivity, we've made great improvement on productivity at Bear Island and at Greenpac, and I talked about that in the call. The 100 million Initiatives is progressing well. If you look at what we're doing today, various mills, we have 55 plants with over 280 initiatives on cost reduction.

Speaker 2

What you're talking about on the CAD 100 million, we're continuing to see some good traction of that. Obviously, in the first and second quarter, there's a lot of new reality with the geopolitical, the quick inflation on logistics, fuel and everything. For us, the back of the year, we don't expect that to have perfect situation on all of the tailwinds. We're not also talking about the CAD 60 increase that we announced this week, going into effect in June. Our intent is really to provide for, like, more visibility. You go back two quarters ago, as a company, we're guiding just one quarter ahead.

Speaker 2

We made the decision to guide for the remaining of the year and to provide more visibility to our shareholders because we do have a clear road to what our potential is, plus or minus the tailwinds and the, and the headwinds. It's more to give like a perspective on, you know, the actions that we have. Tactical actions short term that are happening right now and will continue to happen in the year, will get us back to basically, you know, where we were in the third and the fourth quarter of 2025.

Speaker 2

Looking back at Q3 and Q4 of 2025, we were more in a pace of 615, 620, with, you know, with enough visibility to provide guidance for 12 months ahead or at least like for the remaining of the following year. We feel we're gonna be back to that in a normal geopolitical context. We don't see all of the headwinds being gone in the second half of the year. Inflation on fuel, I think we're in uncharted water as far as not only Cascades, to be quite honest, but the whole world. Our objective is to focus on what we control, being more proactive and building different platforms that are more resilient to those events.

Speaker 2

Our conclusion is extreme weather, geopolitical will continue to impact any business in North America. We need to be more resilient on it. Your math is not wrong. If we have tailwinds and, you know, everything else would go back to normal, our potential remains and we're actually excited about that. Right now we're focusing on the things we can control. Again, I know I'm repeating myself, but I wanna bring people back to the great achievement that our Bear Island facility achieved. We're running at 92% for four months in average, and we're at 94% in the month of April alone. We're making good progress. Greenpac is running at 106% of the plate capacity.

Speaker 2

These things for us, when the market comes back to for more, I don't like to call it normal, but let's call it, you know, plus or minus normal, our potential remains great.

Speaker 1

Hey, great. Great, Hugues, just sort of two follow-ups there. One, on that, so CAD 600 million plus, appreciate that there could be additional tailwinds there. What is the sort of tissue EBITDA assumption that you see the tissue business run rate being back to by year-end? Just with respect to Bear Island, 94% looks like you're seeing some strong improvement there. But in terms of sort of the EBITDA potential off the mill, I'm guessing you don't think you're at 94% of the mill's potential. So maybe you could frame us where that is on its sort of expected full EBITDA contribution.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Two components, Hamir, to your question. If you look at the, go back 2 years with the, some of the great results that we've had in tissue, this is there and better that where we're going back. We've gained some significant market share in many of the customers that we deal with. We're really at a right place in tissue as far as customer mix, the type of projects we have, the mix of retail versus away from home. We'll probably grow even more in retail because we can do some small investments that are within the CAD 175 million of annual CapEx to even grow better. Our product is well accepted, excited.

Speaker 2

When you look back at the numbers that, or the period I referenced, you know, you're in the, in the high 190s and you could be in the 200. That's like a longer term perspective, but not, you know, something that is at the current level of the last 2 quarter. As far as Bear Island, if you go back to our fourth quarter discussion and third quarter discussions, we're now turning to put some improvement initiatives on cost. Chemical consumption, fiber loss, the type of fiber that we use. We went back to 100% OCC, not using mixed paper. We're still basically there. It's something we're looking at. Looking at the cost benefit, don't wanna give back on any of the productivity.

Speaker 2

From a profitability standpoint, we have quite a lot to do, to go, but we're above the 50% mark. It will take time. Look at Greenpac. It took 13 years to go over the 106% of capacity. There's no sign. I had the question in previous quarters, like, is there any additional CapEx that we need at Bear Island to get to where we wanna be? The answer is there's no CapEx over and above the CAD 175 million that we have every year. There's stuff here and there that we'll do. I would say that we're caught up at Bear Island, and what we're seeing today, we're in the improvements of, you know, we were making monthly shutdowns every 5 weeks.

Speaker 2

We're now up to every 6 weeks, and we're looking at ways to go every 7 weeks. This will give us more production. We're at 100% of speed for all of the grades that we produce. The quality is accepted at all of our customers. We can actually displace between Greenpac and Bear Island. You know, there's probably another CAD 30, CAD 40 a ton of cost improvement that we can do. That gives you a perspective on additional profitability. From a mix of those, linerboard and medium, it will depends of how we wanna position ourself with some of our key customers.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Hugues, sorry, just on that CAD 30-CAD 40 of cost improvement, I'm assuming that's without mix, without feedstock change, without re-running more mixed paper, just on the current configuration.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Okay. Like, how long do you think it would take to get that CAD 30-CAD 40? Is that 12 months or?

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I look at this as really continuous. You know, we're turning the wheel. It should never stop. We pivoted one of our value to, you know, basically working hard to be better every day. For us, the focus, it's part of the 280 initiatives that we have. It's tracked by the mill, you know, on a continuous basis. For us, it's a never-ending process where, you know, the 30 to 40 will never get to zero. We still have initiatives at Greenpac, and that's really the mindset that the people are doing, is how do we improve every day?

Speaker 2

You know, understanding that we're at the tail of the startup in Bear Island, so it won't take five years to get to the 30 and 40, but don't expect the full benefit of it this year.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Fair enough. thanks. That's all I had. I'll turn it over.

Speaker 5

Your next question comes from Matthew McKellar from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. You talked a bit about winning the business that you want to win in packaging. Can you talk a bit about what that looks like, what kind of business you're targeting, what kind of business you're onboarding? I think there was a mention of targeting more resilient business. Could you just speak a bit more to what you're alluding to there, please?

Speaker 2

Yeah. We're going back to, you know, the, you know, the right product with the right machine to the right customers. Growing with a bit fewer customers, but go deeper with them with the more market share. We've always stated that, you know, we need the right mix depending of the box plan that we have. We have box plants that are good, you know, for small volumes. I mean, we're not going to put big volume in those type of facilities.

Speaker 2

Where we have equipment and a customer base where we can go, you know, deeper with the relationship, we've pushed on food and beverage, which, given the state of the economy, it is more resilient than, you know, the things where the consumer has a decision to make and is really slowing down when there's a, you know, extensive inflation in the market. These are the type of example of what we're doing. Pushing on service, being able to have the right box. We're producing more lightweight at our Bear Island facility, so we're able to provide some box solutions that take less fiber. It's a good sustainable alternative, but it's also a good economical alternative as well.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thanks, thanks for the help. Last for me, apologies if I missed it. I think you've opened the door to some downside versus the original CapEx estimate for 2026. Could you speak to what the swing factor is here? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yeah. No, I mean, we, you know, we don't need CAD 175 million a year to maintain our assets. We have some quick payback projects we will continue to do. We have some would say strategic, I call them tactical projects to, you know, to bring or position ourselves differently. There's a margin there and to be quite honest, with all of the inflation, based on fuel, based on the tightness in logistics, some projects that, you know, we could do this year, we'll push them into the futures without affecting, you know, that CAD 175 million mark in the future. There's pressure on aluminum. There's pressure on steel with tariffs.

Speaker 2

There's some of these things that, you know, pushing it 1 quarter, 2 quarters is not going to change what we're doing. It's not going to change the picture of how much cash we need in the future. We're gonna play with that. If you look at our results in Q1 and what we're looking at for Q2, managing our balance sheet is paramount for us. It's a priority. You know, you look at a quarter like the 1st quarter, our debt level, you know, basically, stayed the same. If you take out the variation of exchange rate, it actually went down. We still have some room on the sales of assets. I think Allan positioned it well.

Speaker 2

We're gonna reach the CAD 230 million, roughly a quarter ahead of schedule. Understanding that with all those headwinds, our objective and priority to bring our debt level down to a level where we can now be in a position to grow is a priority. If we can't do it for one quarter or two on cash flow generation, we look at other alternatives, you know. Working capital is things that we're looking at. The selling of assets without impacting our EBITDA generation is another one. We're trying to accelerate that. We've always said that, you know, when you want to sell for CAD 230 million of these assets that are not providing additional EBITDA to the company, you need to work on more than that number.

Speaker 2

We remain committed to look at every potential option. The forest land that we announced in the first quarter is a good example. You know, if I went around and asked a lot of people didn't even know we had forest land. It's saying it was a good investment back at the time, but do we need this to continue to generate EBITDA at our Cabano facility? The answer is no. Actually, we took the opportunity to partner with somebody that owns probably like much more land than what we had, and to strengthen our access to fiber in that region. We'll continue to do that, trying to partner with others to make us stronger.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thanks very much. I'll turn it back.

Speaker 5

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Mr. Simon, please continue.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you all for the great question and the listening. I mean, we are fully realized that Q1 is a tough quarter. I like our plan going into the second quarter. You always have a choice between, you know, trying to push price increases too fast to customers and lose market share. We're committed to our customers long term, and that's the way we're looking at this. When we look at our plan, fully confident to go back on the CAD 600 million more level for the second half of the year. Thank you very much.

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