Las Vegas Sands Q3 2022 Earnings Results & Report

Las Vegas Sands EPS Results

• Actual EPS: -$0.27
• Consensus EPS: -$0.20
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$0.07
• One Year Ago EPS: -$0.45
• EPS Beat Rate: 4 of last 8 quarters

Las Vegas Sands Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $1.01 billion
• Expected Revenue: $1.01 billion
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$3.42 million
• YoY Revenue Growth: +17.30%

Las Vegas Sands (NYSE:LVS) (NYSE: LVS) is a global developer and operator of integrated resorts, combining hotel accommodations, casinos, convention and exhibition facilities, restaurants, retail outlets, entertainment venues and other leisure amenities. The company serves both mass-market and premium customers through large-scale properties designed to support tourism and business travel.

Las Vegas Sands’ principal operations are in Macau and Singapore. Its Macau portfolio includes properties such as The Venetian Macao, The Londoner Macao, The Parisian Macao, Sands Macao and The Plaza Macao. In Singapore, the company operates Marina Bay Sands, an integrated resort featuring hotel rooms, gaming, convention facilities, dining, retail and entertainment attractions.

The company traces its history to the development of The Venetian Resort in Las Vegas, which opened in 1999. Las Vegas Sands later expanded into Macau and Singapore and sold its remaining Las Vegas properties in 2021, making Asia the focus of its operating business. Rob Goldstein serves as the company’s chairman and chief executive officer.

Las Vegas Sands Q3 2022 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• The recovery at Marina Bay Sands continued in Q3 with Property EBITDA of US$343 million, driven by eased virus restrictions and improved airlift, and management expects a robust recovery as further relaxations and airlift are implemented.
• An ongoing US$1 billion capital investment program at Marina Bay Sands has introduced new premium suites and amenities with strong guest response, with additional offerings and the IR2 expansion planned in the coming years.
• Macau operations remain challenging under COVID restrictions, but premium mass spending has held up during relaxed periods; SANDS has submitted a tender proposal for one of six gaming concessions and plans to further invest in non-gaming tourism offerings.
• Singapore’s hotel performance (RevPAR ~S$515) and retail sales (~S$2,400/sq ft) indicate strong high-value demand, though full upside hinges on the return of Chinese and broader Asian visitors and restoration of offline hotel rooms.
• Macau visitation was ~25% group tours pre-pandemic, and upcoming tour-group visa and e-visa relaxations in select Chinese provinces by early November are expected to support a more well-rounded recovery in tourism.

Presentation

[Operator]

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference call. At this time, all participants have been placed on listen-only mode, but we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

[Daniel Briggs, SVP of Investor Relations at Sands]

Thanks, Paul. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO, Patrick Dumont, our President and COO, Dr. Wilfred Wong, President of Sands China, and Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO of Sands China. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements that we are making under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The company's actual results could differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures. A definition and a reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in the press release. We have also posted an earnings presentation on our investor relations website. We may refer to the presentation during the Q&A portion of the call. For the Q&A session, we ask that participants please pose one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate.

[Daniel Briggs, SVP of Investor Relations at Sands]

Please note that this presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thank you, Dan, and thank you for joining our call today. A few brief comments, then we'll move to Q&A. The recovery at Marina Bay Sands continued during the quarter with property EBITDA reaching $343 million. The relaxation of virus-related restrictions in Singapore and many of the source markets, coupled with the improvements in airlift, have enabled this performance and this improvement in financial performance. We expect a robust recovery over time as further relaxation measures in the region are implemented and additional airlift into Singapore comes online. Our billion-dollar capital investment program currently underway at Marina Bay Sands has introduced exceptional new suite product and premium segment-focused amenities throughout the resort. The response to these initial offerings has been strong. Additional offerings, including spacious new suite products, will be introduced throughout the remainder of this year and 2023.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

We look forward to substantially increasing our investment in the Singapore market as we execute our expansion plans at MBS in the years ahead. Turning to Macau, the operating environment remains difficult. Importantly, though, in periods when restrictions have been relaxed, customer demand and spend in Macau have proven resilient at the pre-pandemic level from both gaming and a retail perspective. We appreciate the opportunity to submit our tender proposal for one of the six gaming concessions in Macau in September. We are now in the consultation phase of the tender program, and as such, we won't be able to comment much further on the process at this time. We are big believers in Macau as a world center of tourism and leisure. We have been the biggest investor and operator of non-gaming businesses over the past two decades in Macau.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

We absolutely welcome the opportunity to invest even more in non-gaming products and offerings in Macau. We have great confidence in Macau's tourism recovery and its long-term growth prospects. We'll do our utmost to support Macau's economic diversification and its evolution as Asia's leading destination for MICE and leisure visitors. We consider our existing portfolio of resorts in Asia to be an ideal platform for growth in the years ahead, and additionally continue to pursue opportunities to develop new large-scale land-based destination resorts in both the U.S. and Asia. We thank you for listening today, and I'll turn to your questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad now. If listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold a moment while we poll for questions. The first question today is coming from Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Joe, your line is live.

[Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan]

Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. Yeah, Rob, Marina Bay Sands, you're run-rate close to $1.4 billion in annualized EBITDA, and as you referenced in the investor slide presentation, without any contribution from a geography, namely China. Given what you're seeing with improved ASEAN regional visitation volume and say other non-China geographies, do you think you can get to 2019 EBITDA levels at some point in the next year or so without direct contribution from China?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Joe, we think that Singapore is in a very unique place. I think we'll easily achieve 2019 levels. As you referenced, we have three great impediments right now. We have, you know, obviously tourism to China is very limited. We also are running about 55% visitation into Singapore from the rest of Asia, which means, and that may seem odd to reference that because you'd think, well, we're running at high levels of occupancy. But keep in mind that that residual tourist that comes in does not sleep at the MBS property, gambles there, shops there, eats there. We're getting hurt, I think, on the table business by not having all the hotels in Singapore operating at full levels.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

It's a big business for us because MBS is the first port of call for most visitors, whether they're sleeping there or not, they go there. That hurts our business, and despite that, we're achieving $700 win premiums in the slots and huge retail numbers, but the upside is material. Third impediment is our sleeping rooms. We had about 400 units-500 units down right now. I think Singapore. It's just beginning. I always joke with the guys here, the party's just starting in Singapore. The truth is that Singapore is gonna grow, but for a couple reasons. One is the destination is getting more powerful than ever. Our building is getting better than ever.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think when you see a rebound from China and the rest of Asia, 16% will look very small in terms of our ability to grow, we're much larger than that. I think we can keep growing to $2 billion the next couple of years if we get it right and the market fully recovers. As much as we like the numbers currently, we think there's much better days ahead for Singapore. That market and that destination has grown quite a bit in terms of the Asian tourism world, and I think our numbers will reflect that in years ahead.

[Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan]

Great. Switching over to Macau, I'm not gonna sort of waste, I guess, my bullet of a question on the concessionaire terms and other things I'd love to ask about. Maybe can you just remind us what your expectation or what your conversations during the consultation process what the timetable is for, you know, the license renewal to be finalized? When do you expect to hear from the government and then the government's end result to be publicly communicated? That's all from me. Thanks.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

We woke our colleagues up in Asia who need sleep to participate, so I'll let them answer that question. Gentlemen, Grant and Wilf, you're both online, correct?

[Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan]

Correct.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Are you awake, guys?

[Wilfred Wong, President at Sands China]

Yep, Rob.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Yes?

[Wilfred Wong, President at Sands China]

Yes, we're here.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Answer away. Can you hear the question?

[Wilfred Wong, President at Sands China]

Well, we've been working with the government closely, and a couple of rounds of discussion has been held. We are waiting for the government notification whether there'll be another next round of discussion. The timetable remains the same. Everything's in good progress, and we expect some notification towards the end of the month for-

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Okay.

[Wilfred Wong, President at Sands China]

For us to know when's the next step.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Great. Grant, do I hear that? Any additional commentary, Grant?

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

No, I think that's right. You know, we obviously welcome the smooth progress in the process. We still do expect the entire process to complete by the end of the year.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Okay.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

As previously stated, by the government.

[Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan]

Thanks, guys.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Carlo, your line is live.

[Carlo Santarelli, Managing Director of Gaming & Lodging Equity Research at Deutsche Bank]

Hey, guys. Thank you. Obviously, Rob or whoever wants to take this, you guys had a significant boost in kind of hotel revenue out of Singapore and namely in ADR. Any color you guys could provide? I mean, I know strategically you're looking to put the best customers in that building right now from a gaming perspective. Obviously that's showing up in the numbers both in the VIP and mass segments. Anything you can provide as to kind of how the mix has changed at that property? I assume some of that ADR is just kind of casino comp room and that's kind of what's making that jump so significant.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think, Carlo, one of the most significant things is what's not there. You know, we're running, like, 96%. You see on page 14, the reference page, ADR $515. I think, again, we're just beginning. We only have half the recovery in terms of, you know, China's not there, most of Asia's not there. Our point is, you know, the mix gets better and better because demand gets higher and higher. Our problem there is gonna be not having enough rooms to service all the demand FIT casino. I think we pointed to two great variables. One being retail, which is that mall just keeps getting better and will keep getting better. Then our win per unit on the slot side looks strong.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think the refocus on Singapore as a destination market, as a market in great ascent, illustrates what the upside could be in the on the tables, the non-rolling tables. Rolling tables will probably get to a whole new level. Demand for the non-rolling tables is what I'm waiting for recovery, and that's when you see China and the rest of Asia full lift comes back. Right now we're just faced with the sad reality is we'd like to have a lot more rooms in Singapore because that 515 is a real number and could be a lot higher as demand keeps lifting. We can sell hotel rooms all day long at top dollar rates from the FIT side. We have great demand, much better than pre-pandemic demand from the rolling side.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Again, 343 is a very nice number, a good print in light of what's happening in that market. I think the best days of Singapore are next couple of years as we keep growing. You're gonna see our refocus on our mix in the retail segment, our room mix. We're gonna continue to focus on getting the right room mix, top-tier rooms, the right food and beverage product. We've got to work harder because Singapore as a destination is growing immeasurably. We want to be part of that. We're just in a very good place in Singapore. I think, you know, looking back, we always thought 16 was a very nice number. Hopefully, that looks like a small number in the future.

[Carlo Santarelli, Managing Director of Gaming & Lodging Equity Research at Deutsche Bank]

Great. Thank you, Rob. That's helpful. If I could, as you guys have talked about in the past, kind of the thoughts on development, clearly the New York process is kind of underway. Could you perhaps maybe share a little bit of your thinking around your approach and perhaps, you know, how you're thinking about the broader process timeline in general for New York?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Waiting for Kathy Hochul's advice on the process will begin. As you know, we've always been focused on the market for many years. We're putting it together right now. We have property we're putting together right now. Very bullish on New York as a market. Tough because I think one available license at the end of the day, I think it's gonna be a dogfight, and we hopefully will have a bid that gets attention. Other than that, timetable looks like January for the RFP. I think sometime in 2023 maybe you'll see a decision, and we'll put our best foot forward, that's for sure. It'll be a perfect market to be in with the density of population and ethnicity.

[Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan]

Awesome. Thank you, Rob. Appreciate it.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

Great. Thanks. Can you give us a sense of what your expectation is for a more open border and whether there's still an expectation that November would see, you know, the package tour visas and electronic visas? Is that something that you feel like is still moving forward and will still allow for increased visitation to start?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I'm gonna ask your former colleague, Mr. Chum, to answer that question, Robin.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Sorry, Robin, I couldn't quite hear the question. What? Can you repeat that?

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

It was just about your expectations around timing for the border to be a little more open in Macau and, you know, specifically anything on the changes that were planned by early November for visa applications to be electronic and package tour visas to restart. Yeah.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Yeah, sure. I mean, I think, Robin, there has been a positive announcement on the relaxation with regards to tour groups as well as the electronic visa application in four provinces and also in Shanghai expected to commence end of the month or early November. That's obviously going to be a very positive signal for a gradual recovery in the visitation, especially from these key provinces and municipality. Obviously we welcome the development. Clearly, you know, in the past few weeks and also months, it's still been relatively impacted by the COVID cases in different provinces as far as the non-Guangdong visitation is concerned.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

What we're seeing right now in Macau is predominantly coming from the Guangdong Province. Hopefully as we get out further into the fourth quarter with these recent measures, we're gonna start to see a more well-rounded mix of visitation building up towards the end of the year.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

Okay. Also, for my other question on Singapore. I know you said that the deadline to start construction, you know, was extended to April 2023, and that's, you know, you had said that before this quarter. Just wondering if you have anything more definitive about when, you know, when that would happen. Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

You know, Hi, it's Patrick. I think the great news is, as Rob said in his opening remarks and the questions, our performance in Singapore is very strong. It's a privileged market. Inbound tourism there is really remarkable given some of the constraints. The spending power of the consumer there is tremendous. We're really focused on high-value tourism, and you're seeing the results of that in our results. I think the tower two or IR 2 in our mind has just tremendous potential. We're very excited about it. Unfortunately, we don't have any update right now about the timing. We're working on it. We're in process. As we make a little bit more progress on our work there, we'll be able to disclose further about where we're headed.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

As of right now, we're very optimistic about it. We're excited about the project. We think it really will speak to a very powerful part of the market. Now we don't have an update on timing.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

Could I just ask one clarifying question on that? You know

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

Sure.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

It had sounded previously like the timing and the budget and all of that was because of the pandemic and, you know, the disruptions from that. With your business levels sort of fairly recovered, is that still the kind of uncertainty in the commencing construction, or are there other factors that are more of a gating issue at this point?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

It's really just process. You know, I think, you know, there's a certain number of steps that we have to go through in order to be able to build. Those processes were delayed because of the pandemic and because of some of the government agencies that we had to deal with being focused on very pressing matters. Now that they're able to reengage, we'll start that process again and begin on the path. As we follow sort of the steps necessary, we'll be able to provide an update. It's really just timing related to things necessary to begin.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

There's a lot of things that have to happen to make a building of this scale and complexity in the location that it's in, get all the approvals, get all the steps necessary to begin.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Robin, I would say the process for us, it's a learning, it's an evolutionary process. We keep thinking about this market differently as we learn more and see more. Our thinking has changed in the size of room, gaming capacity, who the customer is. Singapore has morphed from what it was five years ago into a whole different place now. I think that's affected our thoughts on what we build in Singapore, and how good should it be and how powerful should it be. I think it's slower than we want it to be, but it's going to, in the end, be a very, very important product.

[Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS]

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thanks, Rob.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Daniel Politzer from Wells Fargo. Dan, your line is live.

[Daniel Politzer, Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Hey, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. So just you guys are seeing a lot of strength in terms of the room product right now. You're doing the billion-dollar project renovation on your room product in MBS. I mean, how do we think about the return of that, given this should be, you know, fully online next year? Do you think you can get, you know, to that typical kind of 20% return historically or maybe higher even in the absence of the Chinese consumer coming back?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think we need the Chinese consumer. We need a couple of things to happen. Let's be clear. We need to see China return at some point to achieve our goals. We also need to see the balance of Asia open up and come back at, you know, again, as I referenced earlier, the 55% or so number, which is, you know, compares with 2019 isn't good. We need Singapore to be full on because our building, if you walk through there when there's tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people there, they're all staying there. There's the other hotels come to visit. These other hotels are very important to us. We need two things to happen. Our renovation will complete in late 2023.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

The balance of Asian tourism into Singapore should be, hopefully, by Q2 complete. That leaves the one variable we can't answer, that's the China return. When all that happens, do we think we can get your, you know, a very fat return? Oh, yeah. I like to believe we can. Well, our goal is to get to $2 billion in Singapore, and we believe that's not difficult if the market returns in full. You know, keep in mind that we went into Singapore with a very different mentality a decade plus ago. The evolution of Macau into a really the premier FIT gaming market probably right now in that region is MBS.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think we're experiencing the beginning of the return, but it's not nearly where it needs to get to for us to get to $500 million a quarter. I think that we'll hopefully see that in the years ahead. We feel very bullish and I can't think of a better place to invest our capital than Singapore and Macau. Singapore's proven to be a terrific opportunity. We put a lot of money in Macau, that will open up again and be a good opportunity. Right now Singapore is very, very exciting for us. Yes, we're very confident the returns will be there.

[Daniel Politzer, Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Got it. Thanks. Just pivoting to Macau, another one on the group tours and the e-visas being resumed. I mean, can you maybe frame how big these components were for your business in 2019? Secondarily, if we think about, you know, these parts of the business returning and coming back online, is there a path to Macau, you know, getting to positive EBITDA in the fourth quarter, assuming no major outbreaks?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Well, I asked Grant to reference that, but, you know, I think we should be careful. We don't. It's very hard, as you know, right now, predictions about Macau have been erroneous the last couple of years because we don't know who's going to come, and we don't know when they'll close the market. It's been stop and start for so long. It's kind of silly for us to pontificate on exact dates and EBITDA. Could EBITDA be positive? Sure, EBITDA positive tomorrow if things open up and visitation returned, and that's going to happen at some point. But I think it's not. It's difficult for us to tell you fourth quarter could be EBITDA positive without knowing what effect the visitor scheme will have in November and then also not knowing how the zero-COVID enforcement will happen.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

There's so many unknowns in Macau, it's very difficult to guess. Grant, you want to put any commentary?

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Yeah, Rob. Yeah, I think Rob's right. I mean, the prediction of the future is tough. I think what we can say about the past is that group package tours represented roughly a quarter of the visitation before the pandemic. With respect to electronic visas, we don't have those numbers. Obviously varied significantly from province to province. Clearly, the provision or availability of that mode of application absolutely is helpful to facilitate the visa application for those relevant provinces.

[Daniel Politzer, Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Got it. Thanks for all the commentary.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thank you.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Thanks, Dan.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Maybe just to stay on Singapore, you know, my first question is just to ask a little bit about, you know, trying to triangulate a little bit more on sort of what you're seeing behaviorally. When we look at RevPAR, for instance, I think it's about 6% versus 2019. Is that a decent gauge of, let's call it the consumer and the, let's call it the spend per, you know, per person or per head? Is it better than that? I'm just trying to kind of think about pent-up demand or what you're seeing on kind of a core, you know, visit-to-visit basis, you know, versus what we've seen in some of the Western markets.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Because we don't have a great proxy in Asia yet about, you know, sort of how pent-up demand is going to play out and just trying to kind of see what you're seeing a little bit more.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I'm going to ask Patrick to take that, but I want to say one thing, Shaun, it's critical to understand is that Singapore is much different. I think this is the obvious response that Singapore is much different than Las Vegas or US regional because of the obvious that you got to fly to get there. You depend on other countries opening up. There's a—it's like, you know, buying wine in Burgundy. Well, there's a lot of different regions in Burgundy. Well, there's a lot of different regions in Asia that don't open, haven't opened, airlift's a problem. So we're really hampered. As nice as what $340 is for the quarter, I think you're not getting the full power. It's hard to differentiate, you know, versus other places.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

The truth is that Singapore remains really held back by no China or little China and the regional market there, depending on airlift. The difference Macao will be when Macao opens up, it's like Las Vegas or regionals. You can come right in without airlift. You're not airlift dependent. I do think Singapore right now is in a kind of an uncertain environment. It's nice you're making $1 billion for whatever the number annualizes is. We won't know the full power of this market. We see it in retail, we see it in local slot plays is still strong. We see it in rolling volumes are strong because everyone's coming to Singapore, especially the F1. I think what you're not seeing yet is unleashing the full power of this destination and what's happening. Patrick?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

It's a very interesting question. I think the key thing to note is that it's a data point for the quality of tourism coming into Singapore and the high amount of consumption that's there when tourists visit. There are constraints and there were constraints from Marina Bay Sands during the quarter. As Rob mentioned at the beginning, you see from the deck, we had approximately 500 rooms out of inventory during the renovation. The rooms that are coming online are probably the best product we've ever had. We're very proud about that. We think we'll be able to trade up in terms of the quality of the tourism that we get out of those rooms once the completion is there. One thing to note is that we'll be done at the end of 2023.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

We're gonna have a few more quarters of disruption as we take rooms out of inventory to complete the renovation process in Marina Bay Sands. The other thing to note is that the airlift is not there, and some of the other hotels around the Singapore market do not have the full capacity because of labor constraints. Once these things are removed from the market that act as limiters, then you can get an idea of what the true potential would be in a run rate environment. I would still call this a little bit of a recovery quarter. We think there's more potential to run as we fix some of these things, that are sort of limiting the way that we can earn, and to be fair, the market can earn.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Very helpful.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

One thing, if you look at our sales in the retail mall on page 31, it gives you some indication that we're running at $2,300-$2,400 a foot, you know, in Marina Bay Sands for the third quarter. I also think you look at the rolling volumes as they start to kick in. I think those are great data points to see a quality coming. Again, it's early days. I think recovery quarter is the right way of approaching it, you know.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Super helpful. Sort of wanna go down the same path, transitioning over to Macau. I'm not sure if you know the exact right way to look at it. Here you do this slide on slide 12, where you kind of break down the mass win per visit, which I find to be very valuable. You know, just as we think about that level and we saw this sort of pullback from what was probably a very premium mass-driven, you know, business back over the like last eight quarters or so, the last two quarters have looked a lot like where you were back in kinda 2018, 2019. Is this the right...

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

You know, which one of those two, either the sort of pent-up demand we saw over the last eight quarters or kind of these more recent numbers is a better guide for what we think normal activity might look like in Macau?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Grant, you wanna take that?

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Yep, I'll take that, Rob. Yeah, thanks for the question. I think it's interesting looking at that trend as you highlight for the past several quarters. I would say the difference that you highlighted with the previous two quarters versus the prior eight, it's really just a function of the regional mix. Into 2022, we've had a much more Guangdong biased mix, if you look at the visitation data, and that's mainly a result of the various COVID outbreak impact on the non-Guangdong source of visitation. If you're looking at the period, you know, post-pandemic, that's clearly the differentiator. Then if you compare with pre-pandemic, it's of course still very much premium mass coming back faster.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

I think that broadly stands, notwithstanding or after you've adjusted for the regional provincial mix. I think that's still a valid point, and it's borne out by the data series. Obviously premium mass comes back first, and then the mass comes back later. This year, definitely there's an impact from the regional mix as well.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think we all agree underlying demand in Macau is gonna be there once COVID's resolved. We know the difference happened probably in the U.S. Again, with our footprint there, our size, our scale, we know the base mass, premium mass wanna drive this thing. The only variable we don't know is the missing junket segment, how impactful it will be. We believe again, when that door does open, I think the pent-up demand is gonna be extraordinary.

[Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America]

Thank you again.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Brant, your line is live.

[Brandt Montour, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Barclays]

Hey. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. On Singapore, can you guys give us the room rate differential between the finished room product and the legacy room product at run rate?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

Hey, it's Patrick. I think the problem is there's so much noise in the comparison because what we would be giving you is 2019, and this is not a fully open market yet. What we'd like to believe is after the quality renovation, to be fair, we were taking keys out of inventory to create larger suite product. The level of design. We have a new service model. We've changed out a lot of the team there in order to improve our service delivery. There's just a lot of things that are gonna be different. I don't wanna quote you a number until we get to the run rate. The key takeaway is that we're very focused on high value tourism.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

We're investing in room product, we're investing in personnel and training, and in service delivery, and in food and beverage. Other amenities in the property to ensure that we can sort of capture that high-value tourist. That's really what you'll see over time.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

I think one thing you just have to do, you really want to understand this thing, is you look at pictures and listen to us, but jump on a plane someday and go see it. The product we're building there is unlike any other been done in Singapore. It is far superior to what we've done in the past and our competitors. I think when people, our response has been across the board perfect in terms of how people view this product. I think the impact is going to be much higher than we understand because when you build something that good, people respond to it. I would encourage anybody who's in that part of the world to spend a day at Marina Bay Sands. We'll show you what we're doing. It's pretty impressive.

[Brandt Montour, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Barclays]

Great. Thanks for that. That's helpful. Again, on Singapore, one of the narratives on the early days of the reopening of that market was that Singapore was gaining share of groups and convention business from Hong Kong. As you talk to your, you know, meeting planners and bookers, and they're looking out 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, is there a sense that with Hong Kong starting to reopen that market is sort of trying to regain some of that share, or is that market too uncertain and, you know, the momentum is being maintained for Singapore in that business?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

Singapore is open for business. That means a return of leisure tourism, which we're benefiting from directly, and the return of business tourism, which we're seeing in a strong way. I don't think we can draw a comparison with Hong Kong because access is different. I think the way to look at it now is Singapore has always been a very strong MICE market, and I think it will continue to be so because of the investment, the high-quality tourism assets, its importance as a financial center. We intend to invest behind this thesis, and so we think it's generally a very strong place to do business tourism. In terms of Hong Kong, I don't think we're at run rate yet to really understand sort of what that means.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

There's still COVID restrictions, there's still other restrictions in operation. Until those return to a more normal time, I think it's going to be hard to have any view at all.

[Brandt Montour, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Barclays]

Great. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Steven, your line is live.

[Stephen Grambling, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Morgan Stanley]

Hey, thanks for taking my questions. You mentioned the trade-up and quality of the new rooms in Singapore. Can you just remind us of the cadence of rooms coming out and coming in over the next couple of quarters? And also talk to the net impact from these actions split across any uplift from renovated rooms versus the older rooms, and maybe even tying in headwinds from those closed. Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

We're gonna have, let's call it anywhere from 300 keys-500 keys out of circulation across the next five quarters. Then the room renovation will wrap up, and the two towers will be fully ready by Chinese New Year of 2024. Actually by the end of 2023. That's sort of the cycle. We're gonna have not our full potential of room delivery during the next five quarters.

[Stephen Grambling, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Morgan Stanley]

Are you currently delineating between the new rooms in terms of pricing and the old rooms?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

There is some variability there, yeah, but it also depends on which room within the segment, so that we have certain suites that are out, certain rooms that are in. Depends on the time. Yes, there is some differentiation, so there is a blend there.

[Stephen Grambling, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Morgan Stanley]

Got it. Maybe turning to Macau, the market share there in mass has been quite volatile. How would you frame how your market share may evolve in a market recovery as different segments return, as you've described in a bit of a cadence premium mass and then mass?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Grant, do you want to handle that?

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Sure. Yeah, thanks for the question. Yeah, I think it is volatile right now because the volumes are so thin. I'm not sure looking at you know this quarter or even the prior quarters is particularly meaningful at this point. I think going forward I think as Rob referenced you know we expect you know strong comeback of both premium mass and mass. I think in those segments we're gonna perform very well.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Obviously, there's a past history there, but also I think looking forward, you know, we are coming off these fantastic product investments that we've made during the pandemic with the $2.2 billion investment program that we've implemented and now coming out on the other side pretty much completing with The Londoner Arena being the last component. With The Londoner and the Grand Suites at Four Seasons, we feel very strongly that we're gonna perform very well in the market share front across all of these segments, not just because of the suites speaking to the mass segment, but also for the mass segment.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

I think we'll end up with these three wonderful iconic destinations, you know, to follow on from the Venetian and the Parisian and now with The Londoner in Macau, which is already starting to gain so much traction with the people who have been able to visit and also locally as well.

[Stephen Grambling, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Morgan Stanley]

Got it. Helpful. Thanks so much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Thanks, Steven.

[Operator]

Thank you. The last question is coming in from David Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is live.

[David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies]

Hi. Evening, everyone. If you could just talk a little bit about what you may have learned the past quarter or so about the mix of revenue in recovery in Macau. What should we expect, and what role does sort of VIP play in all of this? I know, obviously premium mass is the focus, but just help us break down the different streams, if you can.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO at Sands]

Mr. Chum, are you still awake?

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

Yep. Still going. Yeah, I think as I referenced earlier, I think there is a mix between the business segment as well as the regional breakdown. I think if you're just looking at the business segment, then clearly VIP right now has very low levels of volume, especially versus premium mass and even mass. But part of this impact in 2022 is also the regional composition of the business where we're obviously very Guangdong dependent right now and have been for most part of this year.

[Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China]

I think going forward, it should be like how we've been seeing, which is that the premium mass will come back first and more strongly and then followed by the mass. This is also true if you look at the retail numbers. What we've seen is 2021, very significant performance in the luxury retail segment. Of course, 2022 less so, but again, it's really impacted by that regional difference. Going forward, yes, similar trends. You know, we expect the luxury retail to come back first and the fastest, and then you follow through with the mass retail.

[Operator]

Looks like we lost David. We did have another question come in from Benjamin Chaiken from Credit Suisse. Ben, your line is live.

[Benjamin Chaiken, Senior Analyst at Credit Suisse]

Hey, how's it going? Thanks for squeezing me in. Just kinda wanted to level set as we close the year. I think we mentioned tour groups and e-visas for a few provinces in Shanghai, either the end of this month or early November. Is it possible that Macau could have break even or positive EBITDA as we go into the fourth quarter? Or you think that's out of the realm of expectations? Thanks.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Sands]

Yeah. I think the difficulty is we don't know. You know, we've been in these conditions for two and a half years. We're very hopeful. We're gonna continue to invest in Macau. We feel very strongly about Macau's future and the opportunities that exist there for leisure and business tourism, but we just don't know. As of right now, we're just waiting patiently and we're going through the process, and we're looking forward to the opportunity for the upcoming concession.

[Benjamin Chaiken, Senior Analyst at Credit Suisse]

Got it. I appreciate it. Thanks.

[Operator]

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

Participants

Executives

• Patrick Dumont, President and COO
• Robert Goldstein, Chairman and CEO

Analysts

• Benjamin Chaiken, Senior Analyst at Credit Suisse
• Brandt Montour, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Barclays
• Carlo Santarelli, Managing Director of Gaming & Lodging Equity Research at Deutsche Bank
• Daniel Briggs, SVP of Investor Relations at Sands
• Daniel Politzer, Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wells Fargo
• David Katz, Managing Director at Jefferies
• Grant Chum, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO at Sands China
• Joe Greff, Managing Director at JPMorgan
• Robin Farley, Managing Director at UBS
• Shaun Kelley, Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Bank of America
• Stephen Grambling, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Morgan Stanley
• Wilfred Wong, President at Sands China