American Public Education Q3 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
November 12, 2024

Key Takeaways

  • American Public Education met or beat Q3 2024 guidance with revenues up 1.5% to $153 M, adjusted EBITDA of $12.9 M above guidance, and net income of $0.04 per share at the high end of its range.
  • Rasmussen University saw its first year-over-year enrollment increase since acquisition in Q3, followed by a 4% gain in Q4, and the unit is on track for positive EBITDA in H2 2024.
  • Hondros College delivered its 19th consecutive quarter of year-over-year enrollment growth, with Q4 student counts up 19% to about 3,700.
  • American Military University (APUS) expects Q4 net course registrations to grow 4%–6% year over year after modest Q3 revenue gains and margin investments in curriculum and IT upgrades.
  • APEI reaffirmed full-year 2024 targets of $620–625 M in revenue (up 3%–4%) and $64–67 M in adjusted EBITDA (up 7%–12%), along with at least $42 M in free cash flow.
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Earnings Conference Call
American Public Education Q3 2024
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Thank you for standing by. My name is Pam, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the American Public Education Inc. Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Brian Prenoveau, Investor Relations. You may begin.

Brian Prenoveau
Head of Investor Relations at APEI

Thank you, Pam, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the American Public Education Conference Call to discuss Third Quarter 2024 results. Joining me on the call today are Angela Selden, President and Chief Executive Officer; Rick Sunderland, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Steve Somers, Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer. Materials for the call today are available in the Events and Presentations section of APEI's website. Statements made today during this conference call and any accompanying presentation regarding APEI and its subsidiaries that are not historical facts may be forward-looking statements based on current expectations, assumptions, estimates, and projections. Forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by such statements.

Brian Prenoveau
Head of Investor Relations at APEI

Forward-looking statements may sometimes be identified by words like anticipate, believe, seek, could, estimate, expect, can, may, plan, potentially, project, should, will, would, and similar or opposite words. Forward-looking statements include, without limitation, statements regarding expectations for registration and enrollments, revenue, earnings, and Adjusted EBITDA, and other earnings guidance, repositioning Rasmussen University for growth, changing market demands, and our ability to satisfy such demands, and other company initiatives, including with respect to future competition and demand and cost savings efforts. This presentation contains references to non-GAAP financial information. A reconciliation between the non-GAAP financial measures we use and the most directly comparable GAAP measures is located in the appendix to today's presentation and in the earnings release.

Brian Prenoveau
Head of Investor Relations at APEI

Management believes that the presentation of non-GAAP financial information provides useful supplemental information to investors regarding its results of operations and should only be considered in addition to, not as a substitute for, or superior to, any measure of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to APEI's CEO, Angela Selden. Angela, please go ahead.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thank you, Brian. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining American Public Education's Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. On today's call, we have four important areas to highlight. First, at APEI, on all key metrics, we have met or beat our Third Quarter 2024 guidance. Overall, APEI revenues increased 1.5% year-over-year to $153 million, the fourth consecutive quarter of year-over-year growth, and within our guidance range. Adjusted EBITDA was above our guidance range at $12.9 million. Net income of $731,000 equaled $0.04 per diluted share and was at the high end of our guidance range. Second, in the third quarter of 2024, Rasmussen University posted its first year-over-year increase in total enrollment since the APEI acquisition. Next, our fourth quarter 2024 outlook is very strong. APUS total net course registrations are expected to grow 4%-6% when compared to last year.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

At Rasmussen and Hondros, fourth quarter student enrollments are actuals because of the quarterly starts at these schools. At Rasmussen, fourth quarter total enrollment increased 4% when compared to the fourth quarter of 2023, and it is our second consecutive quarter of overall positive year-over-year enrollment growth. And earlier this year, we signaled this positive turn and are pleased that it is occurring. At Hondros, fourth quarter total student enrollment increased 19% year-over-year to approximately 3,700 students. And finally, because of these accomplishments and our overall progress, full year 2024 revenue guidance is $620 million-$625 million, which is 3%-4% greater than 2023. And full year Adjusted EBITDA guidance is $64 million-$67 million, and 7%-12% greater than 2023. Both are within the 2024 annual guidance range we provided in 1Q 2024.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Now, I'd like to provide more detail about the results and trajectory, starting first with APEI's nursing and healthcare institutions. As discussed in previous calls, at Rasmussen, we have invested significant effort and resources to strengthen its foundation for long-term growth. These efforts are showing real dividends with continued improvement in student outcomes, increasing enrollment, and positive financial performance. 3Q 2024 was the first quarter that Rasmussen experienced positive year-over-year enrollment growth since APEI's acquisition. And now, in 4Q 2024, the trend has accelerated as enrollments are up 4% when compared to the fourth quarter of last year. Notably, this enrollment growth has occurred even with the enrollment impact of Rasmussen's voluntary campus closings in Wisconsin. We are further encouraged by the underlying strength in enrollment momentum.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Beyond enrollments, we signaled that Rasmussen would be EBITDA positive in the second half of 2024, and we affirm that we are on track to deliver on that promise. In terms of student outcomes, Rasmussen again produced strong NCLEX pass rates, where year-to-date, 23 of 25 programs are meeting the required state thresholds. Additionally, Rasmussen received positive news regarding its campuses in Moorhead, Minnesota, and Overland Park, Kansas, where both received six-year continuing accreditation. And importantly, in Illinois, our Romeoville campus, along with its off-campus instructional sites in Aurora, Naperville, Mokena, Tinley Park, and Rockford, received initial accreditation from the Accreditation Commission for Education in Nursing, or ACEN, following reviews and applications. From the underlying strength in enrollment trends and rebounding bottom-line financial performance to the continued improvement in student outcomes and accreditation results, we remain very optimistic about how Rasmussen is positioned for 2025 and beyond.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

At Hondros, as previously reported, 3Q 2024 enrollment remained strong, with 10% growth versus third quarter of 2023. Fourth quarter enrollments in 2024 continue this trend, increasing more than 19% year-over-year to 3,700 students. This marks the 19th consecutive quarter that Hondros posted year-over-year enrollment growth. Demand remained strong at Hondros for both the PN and ADN nursing programs, and we received welcome news at several of our campuses. Our Detroit, Michigan campus accreditation was affirmed in July, and in several Ohio campuses, we have improved overall retention above the 70% benchmark. With the positive results at both Rasmussen and Hondros, along with our efforts to simplify our healthcare platform, we underscore that these results reflect our continued belief that nursing and healthcare educational programs will meaningfully contribute to APEI's overall future growth. As we have previously shared, nursing and healthcare practitioners remain in high demand.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

It is estimated that there are over 200,000 nurses needed every year in this country. Our colleges educate approximately 10,000 nurses per year, so we expect significant growth as we continue to close the gap in the unmet market need. Now, I'd like to turn our attention to APEI's online university serving the nation's military and veterans segment, APUS. In 3Q 2024, revenue at APUS was approximately 1% higher due to both the overall growth in registrations as well as higher average revenue per registration due to modest tuition and fee increases implemented last year. As we mentioned last quarter, EBITDA margins at APUS declined modestly as the company has invested in 2024 to strengthen its online curriculum, IT infrastructure, and better align its marketing spend.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

In the fourth quarter, we are already experiencing increases in registrations at APUS based on this work and expect 4Q 2024 registrations to grow 4%-6% versus 4Q 2023. Additionally, we have seen some early returns on our extended family strategy to grow registrations in our military families market. Overall, at APEI, we have carved out distinctive market positions. American Military University, or AMU, is the number one provider of higher education to both the United States military and has been named the top choice nationwide for veterans using their GI Bill benefits. Both Hondros and Rasmussen continue to tackle the chronic nursing shortage by graduating thousands of new nurses each year, where the demand for nurses is expected to grow significantly for the foreseeable future.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Overall, with Rasmussen and Hondros delivering revenue growth, margin expansion, and student success, expansion of our nursing campus footprint in the coming years will allow us to strengthen our impact in addressing the large demand for nursing and other clinical roles in our overstretched healthcare system. We expect APUS to continue to grow at a steady rate, where we can leverage our strong reputation and value proposition of return on educational investment with students. We fundamentally believe in our vision that education can transform lives, advance careers, and improve communities. With higher education as one of the key factors in employment and advancement, we're proud of the value and affordability our programs provide to those in healthcare fields and military veterans and government employees.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Each of our education units were purpose-built to deliver on that vision by attracting and educating service-minded students, offering accessible and affordable higher education and training across a diverse range of subjects, and our learn-to-earn focus enables students to experience a strong lifelong return on their educational investment. With that, I will now turn the call over to APEI CFO, Rick Sunderland.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Thank you, Angie. Total revenue in the third quarter was $153.1 million, up $2.3 million, or 1.5% from the prior year period. Third quarter revenue growth was driven by increased revenue at APUS, Hondros, and Rasmussen, partially offset by a revenue decline at Graduate School. Revenue for the quarter was within our guidance range. Total cost of expenses in the third quarter increased $4.6 million, or 3.2%, compared to the third quarter of 2023. Included in the quarter-over-quarter increase in costs is $1.1 million in information technology transition services costs, which are added back to Adjusted EBITDA. Excluding information technology transition services costs, total cost of expenses increased $3.5 million, or 2.4%, primarily driven by higher compensation costs, including variable comp and professional fees.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

In the third quarter, diluted income per common share was $0.04 compared to an adjusted income per diluted share of $0.02 in the prior quarter, which excludes a $5.2 million loss on equity investments. Third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $12.9 million, which is above the top end of the guidance range and represented an adjusted EBITDA margin of 8.4%. At APUS, third quarter revenue increased 0.8% as compared to the prior year to $77 million due to a 0.2% increase in net course registrations driven by an increase in registrations by military-affiliated students utilizing veterans benefits and tuition and fee increases in the second quarter of 2024. For the quarter, EBITDA margin was 29% compared to 30% in the prior year period.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

At Rasmussen, third quarter revenue was $52.6 million, an increase of 1% compared to the prior year due to stabilized enrollment and tuition increases effective in the first quarter of 2023 and 2024 for select programs. It is important to note Rasmussen will report growth in total enrollment in the second half of 2024 as compared to the prior year. In the third quarter, Rasmussen's EBITDA improved to a loss of $4.5 million compared to an EBITDA loss of $5.3 million in the prior year. As previously stated, we expect second half 2024 EBITDA at Rasmussen to be positive. At Hondros, third quarter revenue was up 12.8% to $15.5 million as compared to the prior-year period due to continued enrollment growth. For the quarter, Hondros' total enrollment grew 10.4% to approximately 3,100 students.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

At Hondros, the EBITDA loss was $0.3 million in both the third quarter of 2024 and 2023. We expect the continued enrollment growth at Hondros will lead to improved financial performance into 2025. Revenue at Graduate School, included in corporate and other, was $8 million compared to $8.6 million in the prior year period. For the quarter, Graduate School EBITDA was $1.3 million compared to EBITDA of $1.6 million in the prior year. At September 30th, 2024, total cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash was $162.2 million, an increase of $17.9 million from year-end 2023. For the nine months ended September 30th, 2024, cash flow from operations was $47.3 million compared to $48.7 million in the prior year. CapEx for the nine months was $17.7 million, and free cash flow for the nine months, defined as adjusted EBITDA less CapEx, was $23.2 million compared to $24.4 million a year ago.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Principal on APEI's term loan at September 30th was $96 million. With unrestricted cash of $135 million, APEI continues to be net cash positive. Additionally, there are no borrowings under APEI's $20 million revolving credit facility, which remains fully available. Turning now to the fourth quarter 2024 outlook, APUS total net course registrations are expected to be between 94,400-96,100 registrations, representing a 4%-6% increase when compared to last year. At Rasmussen and Hondros, fourth quarter student enrollments are actual because of the quarterly starts at these schools. At Rasmussen, fourth quarter total online enrollment increased 9% to approximately 8,300 students, while total on-ground enrollment decreased 3% to approximately 6,300 students for an aggregate enrollment of approximately 14,600 students. This represents a 4% increase when compared to the fourth quarter of 2023 and is our second consecutive quarter of overall positive year-over-year enrollment growth at Rasmussen.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

At Hondros, fourth quarter total student enrollment increased 19% year-over-year to approximately 3,700 students. In the fourth quarter of 2024, consolidated revenue is expected to be between $159 million and $164 million. The company expects net income to common shareholders to be between $9 million and $11 million, or between $0.47 and $0.56 per diluted share. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be between $23 million and $26 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. We are updating full-year guidance with anticipated consolidated full-year 2024 revenue in a range of $620 million-$625 million. We expect our adjusted EBITDA to be between $64 million and $67 million for the full year 2024, and capital expenditures to be between $19 million and $22 million. This translates to free cash flow expectations for the full year of at least $42 million.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Seasonally, the fourth quarter tends to see a notable increase in Adjusted EBITDA, including as Rasmussen continues to improve in the fourth quarter. I will now pass it back to Angie to offer some closing remarks, after which we will begin our question-and-answer session.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thank you, Rick. During the quarter, we continue to execute on our initiatives to grow enrollment at APUS and stabilize and increase profitability at Rasmussen and at Hondros. We're further encouraged by the performance at those two institutions as enrollment numbers, student outcomes, and financial performance continue to increase. Market fundamentals continue to support our business strategy. With increasing demand in higher education and the online education markets, significant government education benefits for military veterans. With our number one market position in active duty military and veterans and a focus on the high-demand sectors like nursing, we are well positioned to capitalize on this growth. We continue to execute against our key milestones, and I believe that we have strengthened the foundation of a business that can deliver value to its students, stakeholders, and their communities for years to come. With that, I'd now like to hand the call back to the operator to begin our question-and-answer session. Operator.

Operator

Thank you, Angie. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. If you are called upon to ask a question and are listening via loudspeaker on your device, please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. Your first question comes from Raj Sharma of B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead. Raj Sharma.

Raj Sharma
Senior Analyst at B Riley Securities

Hi. Sorry about that. Thank you for taking my questions. Congratulations on the improvements that you had talked about earlier. I have a question on the profitability of APUS, which is so significantly higher than all the other divisions. Last four quarters, on $314 million of APUS, you had about $96 million of EBITDA. And then the rest of the businesses, about $300 million, there's a loss of $42 million on EBITDA. Just want to understand again, is there fundamentally something different in the businesses? And can the rest of the businesses, even though they are at a revenue run rate of $300 million, can they ever get closer to the APUS profitability? Just your thoughts on that would be great. And then I've got just a follow-on question.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Hey, Raj. It's Rick. Thanks for the question. Let me start, and then I'll let others add. Well, first of all, in the $40 million you referenced, right, that includes corporate and other unallocated corporate, right? You can see that in the segment reporting. And so that doesn't, in total, reflect the other businesses other than the fact that we do have a corporate element to our consolidated reporting. When you talk about the profit margin at APUS and you're looking at the other businesses, those are different operating models, right? You have the campus-based operations versus the fully online at Hondros and the blended model at RAS. And I think we've talked in the past about not only the direction and the current momentum we see, but also what we could expect from those other campus-based businesses.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

So when you look back, which is what you were referring to, we were having a period of challenge at Rasmussen, right? And as we've demonstrated through this year, and I think you noted the fact that the end of the year is performing in line with what we had previously described to the market, we're going to see improved margins. We are seeing improved margins, and you'll see improved margins in the fourth quarter. And we think that represents a good jumping-off point for 2025. So with that, I'll stop and let either Steve or Angie add to my answer.

Steve Somers
Steve Somers
SVP and Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer at American Public Education Inc

Hey, Raj, this is Steve. I think the other important point, as you're kind of highlighting the differences in the EBITDA, is that there's a meaningful corporate and shared services expense. So that's an element. So the other units are not as negative as sort of as you described. So I just want to point that part out.

Raj Sharma
Senior Analyst at B Riley Securities

Yeah, thank you. I got related on that. The corporate costs, they seem to be the run rate is about $30 million a year. Now, they seem to have gone up significantly from last year. Am I looking at this correctly? Could you talk about the reason for the increase?

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

So Raj, we touched on the reasons for the increase. Of course, we had the technology transition service costs, which we add back. So I don't know if you're looking at the segment reporting, which would be before the add-backs. So there is an element to that, right? We touched upon in my remarks, I touched upon the year-over-year increase in costs. Noting compensation was a cost increase. In that, I said variable comp, you can find the year-over-year change in variable comp in note two of the 10-Q. It's substantial, $2.4 million. And that's mostly at the corporate level, right? And so we are investing in our people, right? We are performing, I think, well against our expectations. I want to check your number. I can't do it here on the fly about the $30 million, but that, to me, seems high.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

But I can go back, Raj, and we can connect after the call or later. Oh, and the last thing, when you look at the segment reporting, Raj, you do have Graduate School USA reported in that segment, so you have to parse that out. I think you can get to what that number looks like when you go to the PowerPoint, and there's a split, if you will, of the EBITDA amongst all the units. And so you can get a sense between the revenue and the EBITDA of what the costs are in there related to Graduate School. Sorry to mention that earlier.

Raj Sharma
Senior Analyst at B Riley Securities

Great. Thank you. And then just one last question: Is there an estimate on the EBITDA margin on Rasmussen in Q4? I know you commented, said it was going to be positive. Out of the overall EBITDA, what is the EBITDA margin on Rasmussen for Q4?

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Well, let me look at it this way. You know what the EBITDA and the EBITDA margin was in Q3, and we just said that for the second half of the year, it'll be positive, right? So I don't know that I'm going to give out a specific percentage, but we have turned the corner, as we said earlier in the year, moving RAS from an EBITDA loss to an EBITDA positive. And the fourth quarter number, just to state the simple math, Raj, which you've done, I'm sure, the profit number has to be greater than the third quarter loss, right, to output a favorable number for the second half of the year, right? I don't think, Raj, we haven't typically given you and I've talked about this particularly when we're on the West Coast about specific guidance related to specific operating units.

Raj Sharma
Senior Analyst at B Riley Securities

Got it. Thank you again for answering my questions, and once again, congratulations on the improvements in Rasmussen. I'll take it off. Yeah, thank you.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Thank you, Raj.

Operator

Thank you, Raj. Your next question comes from Jasper Bibb with Truist Securities. Please go ahead.

Jasper Bibb
Jasper Bibb
VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. I saw the note in the 10-Q about going back to $250 a credit hour for the military rate at APUS master's programs. I was just hoping you could speak to the change in your pricing there. And does that change have any implications for APUS revenue per student or margin in 2025, the tuition increases that we'll put in place earlier this year?

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Yeah, Jasper, it's Rick. Let me start with that. So when you look at the distribution of degrees across the institution, graduate-level students are a very small segment. The predominance is at the bachelor's level. And then, of course, that carries to the military, which is the largest single student segment at APUS. And so it's a relatively small population. We had increased that graduate-level price back in it was earlier in the year, I believe it was April, and thought that that population, that that would be acceptable. We looked at it and we said, you know what? Our DNA for the military is really no out-of-pocket costs. Go back to Jim Etter, who founded American Military University. Military students utilizing Tuition Assistance should be able to attend and complete with no out-of-pocket costs.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

We really felt like we needed to keep that as our core and our core value. We returned to that pricing level. To answer your specific question, it doesn't have a big effect on revenue per student consolidated for APUS, either up or down, right? You won't see a significant fluctuation because of that. With that, I'll pause if Angie wants to add anything.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

I wouldn't add anything to that. I agree with what Rick had to say. Thank you.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Good question, Jasper.

Jasper Bibb
Jasper Bibb
VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities

Okay. Yeah, sure.

Operator

Again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad, and the next question comes from Steven Sheldon with William Blair. Please go ahead.

Matthew Filek
Matthew Filek
Senior Equity Research Associate at William Blair

Hey, everyone. You have Matthew Filek for Steven Sheldon. Thank you for taking my questions. Looking into 2025, do you expect enrollment growth at Rasmussen to be roughly balanced between in-person and online enrollments, or perhaps skewed more toward one? And secondly, can you provide some more detail on the EBITDA margins for an in-person enrollment compared to an online enrollment at Rasmussen?

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thanks, Matt. Hi, it's Angie. Let me start, and we have signaled in the past a few earnings calls that we are seeing positive enrollment momentum at the Rasmussen online business, and that has not changed, so we will expect to continue to see positive online growth in enrollments in 2025. We have seen the campus enrollments rebound. We're very pleased with the improvements that are occurring there, and we do believe that a portion of that is tied to our improvements in NCLEX scores and the confidence that our students and prospects have in the nursing education we can offer them, and so we have a lot of confidence in the campus-based enrollment growth at Rasmussen in 2025. I'll turn the second question over to Rick or to Steve.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

Steve, do you want to comment on how we might look at margin between the two businesses?

Steve Somers
Steve Somers
SVP and Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer at American Public Education Inc

Yeah, I think given that the on-ground is heavily fixed cost structure, right, we would expect to see a rebound in that. Matt, I think we've talked that over the next one to two years, we would see overall margins at Rasmussen move to the 5%-10% range over that period of time. And we're at kind of a pivot point on the on-ground moving from slightly negative enrollments to positive. And so we would expect to see that margin accelerate over time, whereas we're already in a positive situation with the online component of it. So I think it's more about seeing a normalization in the on-ground. And so in the short term, you might see a faster improvement in the on-ground as we grow our scale. And so, but in general, I don't think that we're anticipating wide variances between the two populations.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

I would just add that the difference between the enrollment in Q3 and the enrollment in Q4 is showing the acceleration of our EBITDA contribution as the business has hit that inflection point and is growing in both the online and the campus-based businesses.

Matthew Filek
Matthew Filek
Senior Equity Research Associate at William Blair

Got it. Yeah, that's super helpful context. Thank you, Angie and Steve. And then had one on APUS. Last quarter, you talked about increasing marketing spend there to spur enrollment growth. And was just curious if you could further elaborate on progress with that revised marketing strategy at APUS?

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Sure. I'm happy to start, and others can join. We kind of up-leveled our marketing team and our marketing leadership last year. And one of the things that that team did was pay careful attention to our local market strategy, where are we spending our marketing dollars and increasing yield? And we see that really taking hold here as we signaled in the fourth quarter. Our APUS net course registrations, we anticipate are going to grow between 4% and 6%. So as those marketing improvements take hold, we really are seeing the corresponding effect now with APUS in the fourth quarter. And so we are very confident about those strategies and believe that we have found the balance in terms of lead generation. Then the second thing that we have done in this last two quarters at APUS is also strengthened our admissions and enrollment processes.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

We have added talent to make sure we have sufficient workforce to be able to tackle all the additional leads that are coming in. And we have looked at our policies and our processes to make sure that each of our folks are well-trained to be able to do that in a high-quality way and be sure to answer the specific questions that each of our prospects are asking. And so we believe with that additional training and that additional workforce that we have been able to get after the leads in a higher quality way. And we also believe that that's part of the 4%-6% registration growth we're seeing in the fourth quarter, and we don't anticipate that that's going to subside.

Rick Sunderland
EVP and CFO at APEI

And Matt, the only thing to add is that 4%-6% is on a pretty challenging comp. I think if you go to the fourth quarter of last year, registration growth at APUS was 4%, right? So we're not coming off an easy comp, and we're putting up a really solid number in Q4.

Matthew Filek
Matthew Filek
Senior Equity Research Associate at William Blair

Great. Thank you, team, and nice work on the continued improvements.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Jasper Bibb again of Truist Securities. Please go ahead.

Jasper Bibb
Jasper Bibb
VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities

Thanks for taking the follow-up. Just wanted to ask about the Hondros segment. The enrollment growth there has been really impressive. How do you think about maybe over a longer-term period, bringing that segment up to profitable margin or kind of the target mid-teens margin that you've outlined for Rasmussen, given what you're doing from an enrollment perspective?

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thanks, Jasper. Great question, and certainly something we pay careful attention to. There are a few things that Hondros tackled this year, namely a few of its locations were getting end-of-life on their leases and needed to move. So there were some investments that needed to be made in order to be able to move to more favorable locations. We are seeing the positive enrollment growth that we talked about, 19% year-over-year, as a result of moving what were 10-year leases to new, more favorable locations. The second thing that we are continuing to focus on is adding both programs. So we talked in the earlier quarter about the launch of the MA program at some of the Ohio campuses. And also, as we turn our attention to 2025, we're looking at the potential for new campus locations and other new programs across some of the Hondros campuses.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Overall, the key focus area for Hondros's profitability is making sure that we are paying careful attention to student success. And so we talked about, in my comments, the retention rate at several of our Ohio campuses being above the 70% benchmark. And that, in particular, in a short-form course like a—excuse me—short-form program like an LPN program means a lot because that retention ensures that the students persist and complete. They graduate, they pass the NCLEX exam, and each quarter that they progress certainly is revenue we don't have to replace by spending marketing dollars and all the corresponding costs associated with it. So those are some of the key things that we've been focused on at Hondros. And we certainly expect EBITDA improvement at Hondros in 2025.

Jasper Bibb
Jasper Bibb
VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities

Got it. Last one for me, also on Hondros. You mentioned some planned potential program expansions or campus expansions. Is there any way to frame where you're at from an enrollment perspective now versus the maximum capacity in the existing Hondros footprint? How much more room do you have to grow within the existing footprint before layering on campus and program expansions?

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

It's a good question. And as we've moved these locations, we've really been looking to optimize the footprint, make sure that we have the right mix of the way in which the space is configured so that we're building purpose-built to an optimal and profitable campus footprint. And so we expect that as we see the full effect of those campus moves take effect in 2025, that we expect to see improved profitability at those locations. And as we open new campuses, we fully intend to apply that playbook to each of our new locations there.

Jasper Bibb
Jasper Bibb
VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities

Got it. Next few questions.

Operator

There are no more questions. I will now turn the conference back over to Angela Selden for closing remarks.

Angela Selden
President and CEO at APEI

Thank you, operators, and thanks to all of you today for joining our call. As we conclude, I want to reiterate our commitment to driving growth and delivering value to our students, to our stakeholders, and to our communities. The positive trends in enrollment, financial performance, and student outcomes across our institutions are a testament to the hard work and dedication of all of our faculty and staff. I'm very appreciative of the outcomes that they have helped our students achieve. We are confident in our strategic direction and the opportunities ahead, and we look forward to updating you on our progress and our 2025 outlook on our next call. Thank you all for your continued support and for joining us today.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect. Thank you.

Executives
    • Steve Somers
      Steve Somers
      SVP and Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer
Analysts
    • Angela Selden
      President and CEO at APEI
    • Rick Sunderland
      EVP and CFO at APEI
    • Raj Sharma
      Senior Analyst at B Riley Securities
    • Jasper Bibb
      VP of Equity Research at Truist Securities
    • Brian Prenoveau
      Head of Investor Relations at APEI
    • Matthew Filek
      Senior Equity Research Associate at William Blair
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