HomeStreet Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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January 28, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • Q4 GAAP net loss of $123.3 M ($6.54/share) included an $88.8 M pre-tax loss on the sale of $990 M in multifamily loans and a $53.3 M deferred tax asset valuation allowance.
  • Core net loss narrowed to $5.1 M ($0.27/share) versus $6.0 M ($0.32/share) in Q3, driven by higher net interest income and lower noninterest expenses.
  • Strategic sale of $990 M multifamily loans at a 3.3% average rate improved liquidity, reduced funding costs and CRE concentrations, and is expected to return the bank to profitability in H1 2025.
  • Asset quality metrics weakened as nonperforming assets rose to 0.71% of total assets and loans 30+ days delinquent rose to 1.06%, partly due to the loan sale and a downgraded syndicated commercial loan.
  • Tangible book value per share declined to $20.67 (fair value $12.41) from higher rates and the loan sale, while the Board continues to evaluate strategic alternatives to maximize shareholder value.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
HomeStreet Q4 2024
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Good afternoon. My name is Brika, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the 4Q 2024 Analyst Earnings Call for HomeStreet Bank. Presenting on today's call will be Mark K. Mason, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of HomeStreet Bank and John M.

Operator

Mitchell, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. And after the speakers' remarks, there will be an analyst question and answer session. Thank you. Mr. Mason, you may begin your conference.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Hello, and thank you for joining us for our Q4 2024 analyst earnings call. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that our detailed earnings release and our investor presentation were filed with the SEC on Form 8 ks yesterday and are available on our website at ir.homestreet.com under the News and Events link. In addition, a recording and a transcript of this call will be available at the same address following our call. Please note that during our call today, we will make certain predictive statements that reflect our current views, the expectations and uncertainties about the company's performance and our financial results. These are likely forward looking statements that are made subject to the Safe Harbor statements included in yesterday's earnings release, our Forms 8 ks, our investor deck and the risk factors disclosed in our other public filings.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Additionally, reconciliations to non GAAP measures referred to on our call today can be found in our earnings release and investor deck. Joining me today is our Chief Financial Officer, John Mitchell. John will briefly discuss our financial results and then I'd like to give an update on our results of operations and our outlook going forward. We will then respond to questions from our analysts. John?

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

Thank you, Mark. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. In the Q4 of 2024, our net loss was $123,300,000 or $6.54 per share as compared to our net loss of $7,300,000 or $0.39 per share in the Q3 of 2024. The 4th quarter results include an $88,800,000 pre tax loss or a tax effected $67,100,000 loss on the sale of $990,000,000 of multifamily loans and a $53,300,000 deferred tax asset valuation allowance. On a core basis, which excludes the impact of the loss on the sale of multifamily loans, the deferred tax asset valuation allowance and merger related expenses, our net loss was $5,100,000 or $0.27 per share as compared to our net loss of $6,000,000 or $0.32 per share in the Q3 of 2024.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

On a core basis, our loss before taxes was $6,400,000 in the 4th quarter as compared to $7,800,000 in the 3rd quarter. The decrease in core loss before income taxes was primarily due to an increase in net interest income and a decrease in non interest expense. Due to our cumulative losses over the last 3 years, accounting rules require us provide evaluation allowance for the balance of our net deferred tax assets, which includes the deferred tax benefit of unrealized losses on our available for sale securities portfolio. Accordingly, in the Q4 of 2024, we recorded a $53,300,000 deferred tax asset valuation allowance, which was recorded as an income tax expense. Excluding this allowance, the income tax benefit would have been $22,400,000 and would have resulted in an effective tax rate of 24.3 percent for the Q4 of 2024.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

Given our expectation of income before taxes in the near term and going forward, we expect to recognize no tax expense on our income tax before taxes when realized over the next few years. Our net interest income in the Q4 of 2024 was $1,000,000 higher than the Q3 of 2024, due to an increase in our net interest margin from 1.33 percent to 1.38%. The increase in the net margin was due to a 11 basis point decrease in the rates paid on interest bearing liabilities, partially offset by a 3 basis point decrease in the yield on interest earning assets. As a result of decreases in the Fed funds rate, the yield on a variable rate loans decreased. The decrease in short term interest rates resulted in lower rates paid on our certificates of deposit, borrowings and long term debt.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

There is no provision for credit losses recognized during either the 4th or Q3 of 2024. For the Q4 of 2024, the benefits of the reduction in loan balances resulting from the loan sale was offset by specific reserves on commercial loans. In the Q4, we continue to experience a minimal level of identified credit issues in our loan portfolio and a lack of significant potential credit issues arising in future periods. Going forward, we expect the ratio of our allowance for credit losses to our held for investment loan portfolio to be relatively stable and provisioning in future periods to generally reflect changes in the compensation of and balance of our loans held for investment, assuming our history of minimal charge offs continues. During the Q4 of 2024, our ratios of non performing assets to total assets and total loans delinquent over 30 days, including non accrual loans, increased partially a result of the sale of $990,000,000 of multifamily loans in the Q4.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

As of December 31, 2024, our ratio of non performing assets to total assets was 71 basis points and our ratio of total loans delinquent over 30 days including non accrual loans to total loans was 106 basis points. The $15,000,000 increase in non accrual loans during the Q4 was primarily related to a syndicated commercial loan in which we are participating. Non interest income in the Q4 of 2024 decreased from the Q3 of 2024, primarily due to the $88,800,000 loss on the sale of multifamily loans. Gain on sales of Sandy Mae DUS loans were $1,700,000 in the 4th quarter as compared to no gain in the 3rd quarter. Non interest expenses were $5,200,000 lower in the Q4 of 2024 due to a $1,700,000 decrease in compensation benefits and a $4,200,000 decrease in general, administrative and other expenses, which are partially offset by a $1,200,000 increase in occupancy expenses.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

The decrease in compensation and benefits was primarily due to a 3% decrease in FTE. The decrease in general, administrative and other expenses was due to a $4,900,000 difference in merger expenses related to negotiated reductions in incurred expenses from consultants and expense reimbursement from our merger accounting partner related to integration planning, consulting fees and related expenses. The increase in occupancy costs reflect an updated estimate of the cost impact of a lease space for which the sublease was not extended and expired in 2024. One anomaly of the timing of our loan sale at the end of December was the impact it had on our Tier 1 leverage regulatory capital ratio. Because this ratio is based on average assets, our computing ratio was temporarily suppressed.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

If the $990,000,000 loan sale had occurred at the beginning of the quarter, on a pro form a basis, the Tier 1 leverage ratio for the company and the bank would have been approximately 6.46% and 8.17%, respectively. With expectations of future earnings and continued decreases in total assets, we expect the Tier one capital ratio in future periods to equal or exceed these pro form a levels. There is no similar impact to all other regulatory capital ratios because they are based on any period balance. I will now turn the call over to Mark.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Thank you, John. After termination of the merger in the Q4, we adopted a new strategic plan which included the sale of $990,000,000 of multifamily loans, a sale we closed on December 30, 2024. We sold loans with a weighted average interest rate of 3.3% and used the proceeds to pay off Federal Home Loan Bank advances and broker deposits the weighted average interest rate of 4.65 percent. The broker deposits were paid off in early January 2025. As a result of the loan sale, we improved our liquidity position, increased our available contingent funding and reduced our commercial real estate concentrations, as well as our loan to deposit ratio.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

As of year end, our cash and securities balances of 1.5 $1,000,000,000 were 18 percent of total assets. Our net non core funding dependency ratio declined to 19.9%. Our contingent funding availability was $5,200,000,000 equal to 80% of total deposits and our loan deposit ratio declined at 97.4%. As expected, with the decrease in interest rates, our margin expanded in the 4th quarter due primarily to decreases in our funding costs. We anticipate that this balance sheet repositioning will return the company to profitability in the first half of this year and generate continuous growth in earnings for the foreseeable future as a consequence of the scheduled repricing of our remaining multifamily and other commercial real estate loans, further planned reductions in borrowings, the expectation of ongoing reductions in short term interest rates and continued effective non interest expense management.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Of course, these expectations assume continued strong credit in the absence of other changes in the economy or otherwise, which might adversely impact these expectations. As John mentioned, our non interest expenses were lower in the Q4 and we continue to experience lower compensation and benefits costs through reductions in FTE, which were 864 in December of 2023, declining to 792 in the Q4 of last year and 776 for the month of December. We achieved these reductions through not replacing attrition generally and reorganizing responsibilities. Excluding brokered deposits, our average deposit balances were $80,000,000 higher in the 4th quarter as compared to the 3rd quarter due to the approximately 90% roll rate on our certificates of deposit and our ability to attract new depositors. Our level of uninsured deposits remains low at 9% of total deposits as well.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

It is important to note that our deposits have continued to exhibit significant loyalty and resilience during the last 3 years despite external and internal stressors, including rising interest rates, bank failures, lower earnings and losses and a terminated merger. As John mentioned earlier, our ratios of non performing assets, disposal assets and loans delinquent over 30 days, including non accrual loans increased, partially as a result of the multifamily loan sale in the Q4 and the downgrading of a syndicated commercial loan in which we are participating that is in forbearance today and out of covenant compliance. The bank lending group is working with the borrower on a turnaround plan. The private equity sponsors of this company continue to support it, and we believe the borrower will ultimately successfully recover without loss to the lending group. As a result of the loss on the loan sale and related tax impacts and the impact of increasing interest rates during the Q4 on the value of our securities portfolio, our tangible book value per share decreased to $20.67 as of year end.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

The increase in interest rates also impacted our fair value as our estimated tangible fair value per share decreased to $12.41 as of December 31, 2024. It should be noted that our estimate of tangible fair value per share is solely based on the market value of individual financial instruments and does not assign any additional value to our core deposit franchise, which we believe is substantial. This additional franchise value was shown in the initial value of our proposed merger last year. The initial value of that merger based upon the exchange ratio and the current price of the stock we were to receive was meaningfully higher than our estimated tangible fair value per share as of the prior quarter end. We have all seen and read about the property damage and loss of life in the Southern California wildfires.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

We have significant exposure in commercial real estate, primarily multifamily, and single family loans in or near the affected areas. Fortunately, we've only been advised of a loss on 8 single family residences with additional partial damage or other impacts to 19 additional homes. All of these properties have current full insurance coverage, so we feel comfortable we will not suffer any losses associated with these wildfires. We will have or be providing forbearance and assistance where possible to help our customers through this very challenging situation. As of December 31, 2024, our accumulated other comprehensive income balance, which is a component of our shareholders' equity, was a negative $87,000,000 And while this represents a $4.62 reduction on our tangible book value per share, we know it is not a permanent impairment in the value of our equity.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

It has no impact on our regulatory capital levels. Given available liquidity, earnings and cash flow of our bank, we don't anticipate a need to sell any of these securities to meet our cash needs. So we don't anticipate realizing these temporary write downs. As noted earlier, we did have to provide an allowance for the $28,300,000 of deferred tax assets related to our available for sale securities, which did impact our regulatory capital levels. The current interest rate environment has impacted our fair value and created significant challenges for our company over the past several years.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

The rate and general deposit competition from banks continues. However, with the ongoing repricing of our loan portfolio and recent interest rate reductions with the expectation of additional interest rate reductions, our current and forecasted results are improving. Ultimately, we will experience an environment of stable rates, which has historically provided significantly better financial performance for our bank. We believe we have taken significant steps to endure this period, improve future earnings and preserve the value of our business so that we can evaluate strategic alternatives going forward from a position of greater stability and strength. The Board of Directors is dedicated to continuing to evaluate all strategic alternatives to maximize shareholder value as we move forward.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

In summary, with the successful execution of a new strategic plan, we're optimistic about our ability to return to profitability early this year to continuously improve our results in the future and to ultimately return significant value to our shareholders. With that, that concludes our prepared comments today. We appreciate your attention and John and I would be happy to answer questions from our analysts at this time. Investors are welcome to reach out to John or I after the call if they have questions that are not covered during this session. Operator, if you would

Operator

We have the first question on the phone lines from Woody Lay with KBW. Please go ahead.

Woody Lay
Vice President at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Hey, thanks for taking my questions. Wanted to start with the NIM. It should see a pretty meaningful pickup next quarter with the loan sales factored in. When you think of the NIM trajectory, is there a breakeven level in the NIM that you're targeting to achieve in the first half of the year that gets you back to the return in profitability?

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

We don't have a targeted number specifically, but we do expect as Mark said, you could see what the change in difference between 3.30 and 4.65 were on the those loans that we sold and the debt that we did retire. The expectations going forward is that, obviously, as with any kind of security or loan, it's going to take a couple of years to fully recover the value, but it does impact the positive impact on earnings immediately in the Q1 and going forward.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Plus, we have the impact of loan repricing, 1st quarter and moving forward.

Woody Lay
Vice President at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Yes. So the expectation is that you don't need additional rate cuts from here to hit profitability in the first half of the year?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

That's correct.

Woody Lay
Vice President at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Got it. So you completed the loan sale, which was great to see. And as you're thinking about the return to profitability and growing from there, are there any other strategic initiatives or actions that need to take place in the near term?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

No. It's a pretty simple strategy. Now having said that, we are doing what we can to accelerate the process of returning to profitability and then thereafter improving it. Things like working proactively with our commercial real estate borrowers who have upcoming repricing to hopefully rewrite those loans, either to sell or to improve their yields. Until you get very close to repricing dates, as you would expect, most borrowers aren't ready to preemptively restructure their debt. But given the current posture of the Federal Reserve on slowing rate decreases, we are getting more attention from the borrowers earlier than we have previously.

Woody Lay
Vice President at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Got it. All right. That's all for me. Thanks for taking my question.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Thanks, Woody.

Operator

Thank you. We now have another question from Matthew Clark with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead when you're ready, Matthew.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just starting on around the NIM, do you have a spot rate on deposits after you paid down the brokered CDs here in January? Just trying to get a sense for where we stand here in January.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

As of December 31, our spot rate of all our deposits was $2.65 excluding our broker deposits, it's 2.39 Going forward, we did pay off some of the broker deposits already in the Q1, and we intend to pay them off over the next few months and going forward. So we'll get down to that close to that 239 pretty quickly.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then on the new non performer, the commercial participation, can you just remind us how much you have in syndicated or participations in terms of the exposure there overall?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

That's not a number we generally disclose. I think that it's a little south of $200,000,000 at this point roughly.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Okay. That's fine. And then just on the DTA, and you guys mentioned the fair value of tangible book based on the rate changes. But I just want to confirm that DTA is portable. I mean a buyer could use that right and put it to work.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

So your tangible book of 12 and change is could be grossed up by the DTA. Is that fair?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

It is. I mean, it's going to be converted into net operating loss carry forward. Now, remember, there is Section 382 in the tax code that deals with limitations on annual utilization in the event of a change of control. But given what we believe the value of the company is, we think that those annual limitations are not likely to reduce the full value.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

And also just to be clear, we did add back the valuation allowance in terms of computing tangible book value per share. So if you look at the schedule on the back of the earnings release and in the deck, you'll see the computation that shows the added deck because the value is transferable and also realizable by us. Right.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Okay. So it's embedded in that $12.50 something?

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

Yes.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Yes. And that's in the calculation of GAAP measures. You'll see the number.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Okay. Sorry about that.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

And then just any update on potential conversations with or conversations with potential buyers, is that started yet, is it been ongoing, I guess where do we stand on that front?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

I think I spoke to it in my prepared comments that the Board of Directors is continuously reviewing strategic alternatives and that's what we can say at this time.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark
MD & Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler Companies

Okay, fair enough. Thank you.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Thanks, Matt.

Operator

Thank you. We have Timothy Coffey with Janney.

Timothy Coffey
MD & Associate Director of Depository Research at Janney Montgomery Scott

Thanks, Martin and gentlemen. Hey, Tim. I guess my first question has to do with kind of the fee income line items and servicing, the mortgage servicing. Did the loan sale have a material impact on what those values might be going forward or is that totally separate?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Remember, we sold portfolio loans, so we weren't previously recording servicing fees, so it doesn't impact that line item. There is a potential impact of retained servicing, and I say potential because even though we retained it, there is some probability that the buyer will be securitizing some meaningful portion of those loans. And at that point, we would have to transfer the servicing or the buyer has told us to transfer servicing to a regular servicing provider, a CMBS servicer.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

And just to be clear, we did not recognize a mortgage servicing asset related to that because of the temporary nature.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Right, because of the uncertainty of the timing of how long we'll service and how much.

Timothy Coffey
MD & Associate Director of Depository Research at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay, great. That's helpful. And gain on what is your kind of 3 out of phases, but I'll say that bluntly. What is your appetite for doing more originate to sale business going forward?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

It's large. It's tempered somewhat by both ends of those transactions. 1, the application activity for new loans has not yet picked up substantially, though there is some activity. I think I spoke a little bit to borrower trends. 2, most of the secondary market activity for buyers of loans has been focused on buying legacy low rate loans.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

And so we're not quite sure yet how significant the appetite will be for newly originated loans, but we're in discussions with several parties at this time, hopefully to establish a flow program.

Timothy Coffey
MD & Associate Director of Depository Research at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. And then on non interest expenses, obviously, you're doing what you can to lower that number. Is there more that you can do in the near term?

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Boy, we're really down to very small opportunities at this point. We never I mean, we never thought we would get down below 800 on FTE, which means we're probably running a little thin and we have some positions that we were holding open in anticipation of the prior proposed merger. Having said that, we're trying to hold the line on add backs to really critical positions. And now if volume changes, particularly in the origination areas, we'll have to add some support, but that is less costly support generally. So we think we're getting pretty close to what we can do.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Unfortunately, each year, you do have inflation and compensation. And to be competitive, to retain and attract anyone we need to attract, we're going to have to, like everyone else, provide merit increases this year. We're using a budget of about 3% again, which we think is consistent with our market. So, even where we're at, inflation is going to hit our comp line.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

Yes. On the other expenses too, no big changes in our other G and A expenses per se, other than as we continue to move forward here and restructure our balance sheet, we expect our FDIC insurance fees to go down slightly. Secondly, from the occupancy costs, we are kind of going through and managing those down. As we move out of the spaces, we are not going renewed because we have adopted a remote and somewhat remote environment for the company.

John Michel
John Michel
EVP & CFO at HomeStreet

And so those are the two areas that you may see some stability or slight decrease in expenses.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Having said that, it's a tough market to sublet space. Yes. But they're expiring. Yes, they're expiring. Yes.

Timothy Coffey
MD & Associate Director of Depository Research at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Great. Well, thank you. Those are my questions.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Thanks, Tim.

Operator

Thank you. I can confirm we currently have no questions registered. I do apologize. We have yes, that does conclude the end of the Q and A session. And I'd like to hand it back to management for some closing.

Mark Mason
Mark Mason
Chairman, CEO & President at HomeStreet

Thank you very much for joining us for our Q4 and full year analyst call today. Again, if any investors would like to ask questions or arrange a conference call with John and I, please give us a shout. You know how to find us. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you all for joining the call today. I can confirm that that concludes today's call. Please enjoy the rest of your day and you may now disconnect.

Executives
    • Mark Mason
      Mark Mason
      Chairman, CEO & President
    • John Michel
      John Michel
      EVP & CFO
Analysts
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