ASGN Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
April 23, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • ASGN reported Q1 revenues of $968.3 million, down 7.7% YoY, and achieved a 9.7% adjusted EBITDA margin, meeting its guidance despite macro uncertainty.
  • ASGN closed its acquisition of TopBlock in March, integrating Workday services and exceeding initial bookings, revenue, and adjusted EBITDA expectations.
  • Commercial consulting revenues rose 4.7% YoY to $290.1 million, with consulting bookings up 4.2% to $336.9 million and a book-to-bill of 1.2x, lifting the high-margin IT consulting mix to 61% of total revenue.
  • Federal segment bookings were strong at $343.1 million, driving backlog over $3.1 billion, though first-quarter federal revenues fell 6.7% YoY, impacted by DoD cost-cutting efforts.
  • Second-quarter guidance calls for revenues of $985 million to $1.015 billion and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 10.3%–10.6%, reflecting ongoing macro volatility and reduced high-margin federal work.
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Earnings Conference Call
ASGN Q1 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Greetings and welcome to the ASGN Incorporated First Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Kimberly Eastervin, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

Kimberly Esterkin
Kimberly Esterkin
VP, Investor Relations at ASGN

Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today for ASGN's first quarter twenty twenty five conference call. With me are Ted Hanson, Chief Executive Officer Shiv Iyer, President Marie Perry, Chief Financial Officer and Rand Blazer, Executive Vice Chairman. Before we get started, I would like to remind everyone that our commentary contains forward looking statements. Although we believe these statements are reasonable, they are subject to risks and uncertainties, and as such, our actual results could differ materially from those statements.

Kimberly Esterkin
Kimberly Esterkin
VP, Investor Relations at ASGN

Certain of these risks and uncertainties are described in today's press release and in our SEC filings. We do not assume any obligation to update statements made on this call. For your convenience, our prepared remarks and supplemental materials can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at investors.asgn.com. Please also note that on this call, we will be referencing certain non GAAP measures such as adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income and free cash flow. These non GAAP measures are intended to supplement the comparable GAAP measures.

Kimberly Esterkin
Kimberly Esterkin
VP, Investor Relations at ASGN

Reconciliations between GAAP and non GAAP measures are included in today's press release. I will now turn the call over to Ted Hanson, Chief Executive Officer.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Thank you, Kim, and thank you for joining ASGN's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. As Kim noted, I'm pleased to welcome our new President, Shiv Iyer, to his very first ASGN earnings call. Shiv will make some brief remarks at the close and join us for the Q and A session. Despite macro uncertainty, revenues of $968,300,000 and adjusted EBITDA margin of 9.7% were in line with our guidance expectations for the quarter. We continue to deliver solutions that cater to our clients' IT modernization, efficiency and cost containment requirements, leading to strong quarterly bookings for both our commercial and government segments.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Our IT consulting revenues also grew reaching roughly 61% of total revenues for the first quarter, up from 57% in the prior year period. As I noted last quarter, we entered the year with a renewed sense of business optimism from our client base. This improvement and confidence faded as the quarter progressed, with clients remaining cautious about increasing their IT spending. Nonetheless, ASGN's unique business model demonstrates resilience across economic cycles, primarily due to our business stabilizers that support our gross margin, along with our variable cost structure, which aids in safeguarding our operating leverage. Further, our business model also provides flexible onshore and near shore teams that help reduce our clients' costs while maintaining commitment to providing high value IT services.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Speaking of providing high value services, in March, we successfully closed our acquisition of TopBlock, a preferred certified Workday services partner and recently named Workday Business Impact Partner of the Year. The integration of TopLock is going well, and in the short period of time since the acquisition closed, our Apex and TopLock teams have already partnered on a number of new consulting opportunities. Importantly, TopLock is tracking ahead of our bookings revenue and adjusted EBITDA expectations. While market conditions remain volatile, we are confident that nurturing our long standing client relationships, expanding our technology partnerships and enhancing our solution capabilities organically and through strategic acquisitions like TopBlock, we will position ASGN favorably for the future. So let me provide some examples of our differentiated IT solution capabilities and discuss our segment performance for the first quarter beginning with commercial.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Our commercial segment services Fortune 1,000 and large mid market companies. Revenues for this segment were again driven by growth in our consulting business, which improved 4.7% year over year. Consulting bookings of 336,900,000.0 improved 4.2% as compared to the first quarter of twenty twenty four and put our book to bill at 1.2 times for the quarter and 1.1 times on a trailing twelve month basis. From an industry perspective, we saw growth in our consumer and industrial vertical, which improved mid single digits year over year. Improvement in this vertical was driven by double digit growth in materials, utilities and consumer discretionary accounts, along with mid single digit growth in industrial.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

While revenues for the remaining four commercial verticals were down year over year, within our healthcare vertical, pharmaceutical and biotech accounts were up low single digits as compared to the first quarter of twenty twenty four. Within our TMT vertical, e commerce accounts were up mid teens year over year. Finally, within the financial services vertical, diversified financials saw mid single digit growth and regional banks saw slight growth as compared to the first quarter of twenty twenty four. Although financial services industry is one of the highest vendors on IT, macroeconomic factors such as higher inflation and uncertainty regarding tariffs have driven cautiousness to spend on new projects across the banking sector. Despite these headwinds, our differentiated IT solutions remain in demand by our diverse U.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

S.-based Fortune 1,000 clients. Consulting engagements for the quarter focused on AI and data solutions, GenAI, cybersecurity, cloud and digital engineering with projects specifically aimed at promoting cost savings and efficiency. Let me provide a few examples. For a Fortune 200 consumer and industrial client in the process of modernizing their supply chain, our industry and technical leaders are helping develop and operationalize that data and AI strategy. We are providing a near shore team of consultants to support the implementation of our client supply chain optimization solutions using Informatica's cloud native and AI augmented platform to support data and machine learning operations.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Although enterprise wide applications of Gen AI are still to come, we continue to see AI initiatives like this that focus on high impact use cases to improve efficiency, reduce cost, and provide deeper data insights. In another example, for a large health services company, we helped build a scalable, secure, and efficient identity and access management platform that supports our clients' growth, compliance, and evolving business needs By migrating to a new IAM platform, our client will be able to better manage data controls that provide appropriate access and governance across their organization. Our scope of work encompasses the application and integration basis of the new IAM platform, including integration across hundreds of different applications while optimizing workloads and performing thorough testing and validation. Through innovative optimization techniques, we will enhance automation, risk management, and user experience for our clients. Improving data processing, while at the same time driving efficiency and cost savings remain top priorities across our client base.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

For a Fortune 100 oil and gas client, for example, we successfully implemented the Databricks Unity Catalog, a unified governance solution, By optimizing compute resources and nightly processing times, we significantly reduced our clients' Databricks costs. Driving innovation and automation on cloud based platforms is also in high debate. In the first quarter, we collaborated with a U. S. Banking client to create a cloud first automation framework, integrating APIs and modern engineering practices.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

By eliminating manual file handling, our client achieved end to end automation of their costing process by which they assign fees to their products and services, thereby enhancing their overall workflow efficiency. Each of these consulting projects involves aspects of intelligent data management, and the usage of AI is increasingly becoming essential to successfully managing enterprise data. Even as companies limit their IT spend, our clients continue to scale their investments in AI. Clients early in their AI journeys are investing in AI workshops and AI literacy trainings to prepare their organization for future AI usage. Clients further along in their journeys are partnering with us on thought leadership pieces and innovation studies to drive competitive advantages.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

The most common AI use cases we are currently seeing include the development of agent assistance or co pilot, the implementation of GenAI to accelerate the software development lifecycle, the usage of AI tools for code conversion and documentation, especially in banking, and leveraging AI for IT operation. With that, let's turn to discuss our federal government segment. Our federal government segment provides advanced IT solutions for the Department of Defense, the intelligence community, and other critical agencies in support of national security. Although this segment's quarterly revenues declined year over year, bookings were strong with new contract awards totaling $343,100,000 for the first quarter. This put our book to bill at 1.2 times on both a quarterly and trailing twelve month basis.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

In addition, contract backlog was over $3,100,000,000 at quarter end or a coverage ratio of 2.6 times the segment's trailing twelve month revenue. We are not immune to Doge. In our first quarter federal government segment, revenues and margins saw a slight impact from Doge's cost cutting efforts. That said, our solution capabilities and agency focus remain well aligned with the administration's priorities. The government will gain efficiency through IT modernization that leverages AI, automation, and a commercial delivery model.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

ASGN brings those exact services and delivery best practices to our customers with our core solution capabilities in AI, cybersecurity, and digital modernization for mission critical defense, national security, and law enforcement programs. Our government teams consistently led the charge in IT innovation. And during the quarter, we won a new five year firm fixed price contract with the FBI's laboratory division to provide IT modernization services. As the prime awardee on this contract, our team will centralize and modernize information and operational technology, or IT and OT, by streamlining technology usage, powering the FBI services with AI tools, and automating key processes that enhance the FBI's ability to solve cases and prevent acts of crime and terror. Our services to the FBI include infrastructure support, cloud integration and modernization, enhanced cybersecurity protection, and improved data governance.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

The FBI is a long standing client of ASGN, and this contract represents an additional opportunity to promote the agency's essential mission. We also support the essential missions of the Department of Defense and during the first quarter, our Defense and Intel unit won additional work with the DoD's Chief Digital and AI Office to operate the department's premier AI development environment or Innovation at Speed and Scale. As a mission critical partner, we will collaborate with the DoD on AI innovation work streams that provide improved operational insight and decision making capabilities as well as enhance value across global war fighting domain. Also during the quarter, we secured a large recompete contract with a strategic logistics customer. By providing technical expertise and solutions to our customers' engineering and technical support center, we will help them reduce their costs while at the same time drive quality and innovation across their operations.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

As illustrated by these three examples, we continue to see a steady flow of work consistent with Doge's efficiency and IT modernization missions. Nonetheless, as it's prudent, we are actively tracking DOGE activities and identifying ways to support our customers with additional work or to move essential work onto contracts with available ceilings. Although we remain in a continuing resolution through September, customers are extending current projects. We expect to defend the national security programs along with essential citizen services, which together constitute the vast majority of our federal government support, will remain priorities in the new government fiscal year. With that, I'll turn the call over to Marie to discuss the first quarter results and our second quarter twenty twenty five guidance.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Thanks, Ted. For the first quarter, revenues totaled $968,300,000 a decrease of 7.7% year over year and in line with our guidance expectations. Given the timing of the acquisition close on March 4, Toplot contributed less than one month to our first quarter results. Revenues from our commercial segment were 672,200,000.0 a decrease of 8.1% as compared to the prior year. Assignment revenue totaled $382,100,000 a decrease of 16% year over year reflecting continued softness in portions of our commercial segment that are more sensitive to changes in macroeconomic cycles.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Revenues from commercial consulting, the highest of our high margin revenue streams, totaled 290,100,000.0 an increase of 4.7% year over year. Revenues from our federal government segment were $296,100,000 a decrease of 6.7% year over year, mainly due to a few programs ending and a slight impact from DOGE, as Ted previously noted. Turning to margins. Gross margin for the first quarter of twenty twenty five was 28.4%, an increase of 20 basis points from the first quarter of last year. Gross margin for the commercial segment was 32.4%, up 40 basis points year over year reflecting a higher mix of consulting revenues as well as margin expansion in these revenues. Gross margin for the federal government segment was 19.5%, a decline of 20 basis points year over year, primarily due to higher rates from bridge benefits.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

SG and A expense for the quarter was $214,500,000 compared to $210,200,000 in the first quarter of twenty twenty four. SG and A expenses included $3,300,000 in acquisition, integration, and strategic planning expenses and a $4,400,000 1 time write off related to previously capitalized costs for software enhancements that will no longer be placed into service. As a reminder, these types of costs are not included in our guidance estimates. Excluding these one time items as well as non cash expenses such as depreciation and stock based compensation, SG and A declined by approximately $6,000,000 year over year. For the first quarter, net income was $20,900,000 adjusted EBITDA was $93,600,000 and adjusted EBITDA margin was 9.7%.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

In the quarter, as discussed, we completed our acquisition of TopLock for $340,000,000 consisting of 10% equity and 90% cash, of which approximately $56,000,000 came from our cash balance and the rest was a drawdown on our revolver. In addition, we deployed $50,400,000 to repurchase approximately 600,000.0 shares at an average share price of $78.44 At quarter end, we had approximately $478,600,000 remaining under our $750,000,000 share repurchase authorization. Also at quarter end, cash and cash equivalents were $107,000,000 and we had $250,000,000 available on our $500,000,000 senior secured revolver. This brings our net leverage ratio to 2.6 times at the end of the first quarter. Free cash flow totaled $6,600,000 for the first quarter.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Free cash flow was lower than we typically see in the quarter, primarily due to an increase in DSO driven by timing issues from certain enterprise accounts. We expect DSO to improve on a go forward basis. Turning to guidance. Our financial estimates for the second quarter of twenty twenty five are set forth in our earnings release and supplemental materials. These estimates are based on current market conditions and assume no further deterioration in the markets we serve.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Guidance also assumes sixty three point two five billable days in the second quarter, which is zero point two five billable days fewer than a year ago period and one point two five days more than the first quarter. Given the overall macro uncertainty, we are widening our revenue guidance range for the quarter. Our revenue estimates incorporate less than a 2% impact from those. In terms of our second quarter margins, while we no longer have as large of an impact from our payroll tax reset that we did in the first quarter, we anticipate that margins will be negatively impacted by the loss of some of our higher gross margin federal as a result of those cancellations. With that, a step back.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

For Q2 twenty twenty five, we're estimating revenues of $985,000,000 to $1,015,000,000 net income of $29,300,000 to 34,300,000.0 adjusted EBITDA of $101,000,000 to $108,000,000 and adjusted EBITDA margin of 10.3% to 10.6%. Thank you. I'll now turn the call back over to Ted.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Thanks, Marie. Even in the face of macroeconomic uncertainty and factors beyond our control, ASGM performed in line with our revenue and adjusted EBITDA expectations for the first quarter. Our unique operating model positions us for sustained progress in delivering higher end, high value IT services. And despite client IT spending hesitations, our commitment to innovation and customer satisfaction enabled us to deliver strong bookings. The appointment of Shiv as President and the acquisition of TopLock are pivotal developments that underscore our adaptive and forward thinking approach.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

And as I noted previously, TopLock is already exceeding our bookings, revenue and adjusted EBITDA expectations. Looking ahead, the resiliency and versatility of our offerings in AI, data and cybersecurity in particular continue to drive demand and affirm our go to market approach in these critical areas of client needs. Our ability to maintain robust client relationships while expanding our technology partnerships provide us confidence that we are well prepared to capture future opportunities and enhance shareholder value. We remain cautious but hopeful about the go forward, knowing that our unique delivery model is the fastest and best way for our clients to accelerate their IT investment. It is precisely our innovative contingent labor model and the vast prospects it provides that inspired Shiv, among other reasons, to join the ASGN team.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

So let me pass the call over to Shiv to share his insights and wrap up our prepared remarks.

Shiv Iyer
Shiv Iyer
President at ASGN

Thanks, Ted. I'm excited to be part of my first AGM earnings call. It's a great time for me to join the team and immediately make a positive impact on our company. Over the past seven weeks, I've hit the ground running, collaborating globally with our segment teams and engaging with our dynamic leadership. The pace of technological change is staggering, and our clients are constantly looking for the right talent with deep targeted skills.

Shiv Iyer
Shiv Iyer
President at ASGN

I'm confident that our model leverages the combination of internal capabilities and a highly skilled contingent labor force is the optimal approach in this rapidly evolving technological landscape, where maintaining the right IT skill sets is exceedingly challenging through a permanent bench model. In my initial weeks at ASGN, I've been immersing myself with our commercial consulting teams, rapidly climbing the learning curve while inserting my own expertise to benefit. Since the past two decades in the consulting industry, I'm thrilled to bring my experience to ASBN, help evolve our strategy and differentiation. Unfortunately, we are at a point in time where clients must exercise caution with their IT spend. Nonetheless, I've been through these economic cycles before, each time learning something new, growing my knowledge base to emerge even stronger on the other end.

Shiv Iyer
Shiv Iyer
President at ASGN

While we may be experiencing increased market volatility at the present moment, there is no doubt in my mind that having access to a diverse pool of talent, continuing to focus on our strong account base and providing the right solutions will allow our company to stay ahead of the competition. I look forward seeing ASGN continue to take market share. Thank you again for joining ASGN's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. We will now open up the call to your questions.

Operator

Great. Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. Session. First question is from Tobey Sommer from Truist Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you.

Tobey Sommer
Tobey Sommer
Managing Director at Truist Securities

I wanted to ask about your bookings in the quarter across the different businesses. Could you characterize them from a new customer and new project, kind of new work perspective versus renewal of existing work? And then I'll have a follow-up. Thanks.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Toby, Ted, thanks for the question. If you think about the commercial side of things where we continue to see consistently good bookings there, a mix of renewal work and new work, then renewal is still a larger percentage than the new, but the new is progressing. So the trend there hasn't really changed. On the federal side, our bookings this quarter, which were very strong, keep us moving up, if you will, in book to bill now 1.2 on a trailing twelve month basis. Again, characterization, We had some recompete work that we won.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

We had some new work that we won. And in addition, some of that I should have said some of that recompete work also had expansions of work. So it varied, but I wouldn't say any different trends there, Toby, than what we've seen in the latter quarters.

Tobey Sommer
Tobey Sommer
Managing Director at Truist Securities

Okay. Thank you. Then if I could pivot based on that response and ask a question about Doge and the impact in the federal business. Is there a way to characterize mean, you put some numbers there. But from a type of work or type of customer perspective, is there a way to describe where you're seeing the impact and how?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Sure. Toby, I don't think this will be inconsistent with maybe what we're seeing across the industry with other players. But where we've had small interruptions of work, it's been left more on the Fed civilian side, not so much on the defense and intel side. It may have been discrete pieces of work where we were doing more, what I'll call maybe traditional management consulting program oversight, know, what's probably the nature of the work. If we look at the work where we're really good hands on technical work with a scope to get the customer to a certain outcome or objective, which is the highest propensity of our work, that's been steady, remains in place, and hopefully that gives you a little bit of a flavor.

Tobey Sommer
Tobey Sommer
Managing Director at Truist Securities

It does. With respect to that program management consultative work, how much does that represent in the business? If maybe that describes a couple of points of impact, is there much that remains or does that sort of zero out category?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Yeah, it's a small piece of what we do, Toby. I mean, most of our work is kind of categorized as real good technical work in AI, data, cybersecurity, helping manage IT systems and operations. We did very little work on the general management consulting side and in the regulatory type federal civilian agencies.

Tobey Sommer
Tobey Sommer
Managing Director at Truist Securities

Thanks, Ted.

Operator

Next question is from Mark Malkin from Baird. Please go ahead.

Mark Marcon
Senior Research Analyst at Baird

Hey, good afternoon, Ted, Rand, Shiv, and Marie. I want to you've done a really impressive job in terms of maintaining the margins here during the quarter. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about and the guide also reflects strong margins. And so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you've been able to raise the gross margins through the mix. If we were to look at things from an apples to apples perspective in terms of project to project, would it also show that the consulting margins are holding steady in terms of like for like type projects?

Mark Marcon
Senior Research Analyst at Baird

How should we think about the SG and A going forward, particularly if things soften a little bit? I think most people are still at an early stage in terms of trying to determine what the environment is going to be like.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Great. Well, Mark, if you think about the nature of the commercial consulting work as we do more, it becomes a bigger percentage of the business. Obviously, that's going to lever up our gross margins and will continue to contribute to expanding EBITDA margins. If you think about adding capabilities like TopLock and Workday, what we do in ServiceNow, more work that we're doing in AI and data, those are all areas where we can get an expanded gross margin. So on a like for like basis, just based on the nature of the work and the value proposition for the customer, you're seeing that expand in and of itself to your first question.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

And then as it relates to SG and A, this will our model, which is bringing the talent for this work on a contingent basis, is going to continue to support the business, whether revenues move up or down. We have business stabilizers that will help us both at the gross profit and gross margin level. And then with the highly variable cost structure in SG and A, and that's going to continue to be an important stabilizer So you see all this working kind of real time. Remember, it doesn't always happen in the moment.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

So in the month or the quarter, we may have a little bit of a lead or a lag as it relates to the business stabilizers kind of flowing through. But if you look over a period of quarters, you can kind of consistently see that the SG and A and the stabilizers therein around our model are working as they should.

Mark Marcon
Senior Research Analyst at Baird

It certainly is evident. Just for my follow-up real quickly, can you talk a little bit, maybe this is a question for Ted or Shiv or Rand, but what are you hearing from your commercial clients with regards to not the ongoing projects, but projects that they may have been contemplating starting up a month from now, six months from now, later on? Like, what's the level of certainty that some of those projects are gonna go through versus we're kind of in a wait and see mode? And how variable do you think that could be based on your cumulative experience through multiple cycles?

Shiv Iyer
Shiv Iyer
President at ASGN

Sure, Mark. Well, so far what we're seeing is clients are still to spend in areas of strategic importance like data, AI, and cybersecurity. And I don't think there's enough evidence of them slowing some of that down. Obviously, with the macros that we see with some of the uncertainty around, we're waiting and watching across all sectors. But so far we're not seeing evidence in strategic areas of technology investment, whether it's around cloud, innovation on cloud, data, AI, cybersecurity, there's any sort of slowdown?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

So Mark, if you think about the commercial customers by industry, they're all a little bit in a wait and see mode, just to add to what Shin said, which ultimately is going to make them cautious here. They're going to stick with it in certain areas. And I think to Shed's point, they're going to play their cards here for a little while before they dive in at higher levels of spend. I mean, even if you look at a third party data point like ISG, I think they've come out and said that basically IT services right now are going to be kind of flat based on the cautiousness and the wait and see mode, if you will, around tariffs and what's going on in the market. So there and look, I think we think about our business the same way.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

There are certain critical areas of advancement that we need to make in our own systems around data, use of generative AI and other things that we think are going to be critical for the future. And then there are some areas that is more discretionary and we can hold back on right now. And so I always think our clients are thinking about this and managing it the same way we look at our own business.

Mark Marcon
Senior Research Analyst at Baird

That's great. Thanks for the color and congrats on the margin.

Operator

The next question is from Kevin McVeigh from UBS. Please go ahead.

Kevin McVeigh
Kevin McVeigh
Managing Director at UBS Group

Great. Thank you so much. And thanks for the detail. Could you just drill down and help us understand how much TopLock contributed to the first quarter in terms of revenue and how it impacts the Q2 guidance, I guess, terms of revenue EPS? Just want to start there if I could.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Yes. So Kevin, we gave when we made the acquisition what our expectations were for the year for top lots, I'd just refer you back to that. We only owned it for a few weeks during March. So it was contribution was kind of immaterial if you will to the broader results. And again, as it relates to what may entail for the second quarter of the rest of the year, I mean, pretty easy to do the math than what we laid out before.

Kevin McVeigh
Kevin McVeigh
Managing Director at UBS Group

Okay. And then I guess, I know you talked about some initial Doge impact, Ted, but do you think we're through the process at this point? Or do you think there could be more potential adjustments? Or how are you thinking about that? And have the conversations changed at the federal level at all?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Rand, do you want to take that one?

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

Yeah, I mean, I think we've all keep in touch with this day to day. And we think that listen, Doge will still continue to seep into the client's environment. But most of our discussions are with the clients and around the technology and what they're spending money on. So I mean, I guess I would say, Ted, that Doge is not the premier person that's second guessing anything at this point. Clients are trying to do a good job of controlling their own spend.

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

And that's been true for a while, and that's kind of what continues on. So I think we're not looking over our shoulder, we're just trying to do good work that provides cost efficiency and modernization of their systems. And remember in the federal side, Kevin, we're very involved in what I call the enablement of mission systems. We're, as Ted alluded earlier, we do very little in just the general program management consulting area, of the business. So we're much more close to the mission, the systems, and even the weapon systems around security, around connectivity of the technology.

Kevin McVeigh
Kevin McVeigh
Managing Director at UBS Group

Very helpful, thank you.

Operator

Next question is from Trevor Romeo from William Blair. Please go ahead.

Trevor Romeo
Research Analyst at William Blair

Hi, thank you very much for taking the questions. First one I had was just on the guidance, guess, appreciate certainly being a bit wider than normal in this environment. And thanks, Marie, for the comment on the dose impact. But I was just wondering if you could maybe speak a bit more specifically to what's embedded in the guidance for each segment and maybe where some of the upside or downside could be there?

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Hi, Trevor. So from a guidance perspective, the information that we give is really on a consolidated basis. So to your point, we did highlight the potential impact of dose, which was less than 2% on total revenues, and then provided the other factors from a guidance perspective.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

If you just think about the kind of commentary around all of it, Trevor, I mean, I think we would say things are pretty steady. So as you maybe as you just think about, we've been in kind of a pretty stable environment here as it relates to revenue per billable day coming out of the second half of the year and into the first half of the year. We had kind of a normal few points of adjustment that we would always see at the beginning of the year, especially in our commercial business that's just natural as projects kind of come to an end and then begin to ramp up. And I don't think our outlook on the go forward here is going to we would say anything different, but continued stability here. So if you just think about that, our revenue per billable day basis, that's probably the best way just to give it some color.

Trevor Romeo
Research Analyst at William Blair

Okay. Thanks, Ted Murray. That's helpful. And then for the follow-up, just thinking, I guess, as clients may even look to go further into cost cutting mode potentially here, how are you thinking about the opportunity for your Mexico near scoring capability? Is that an area where you're either seeing or you would expect to see a little bit more resilience demand in this type of environment?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Rand, do you want to take that one?

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

Well, the answer is yes. We've seen that over the past year, year and a half, two years we've had and built Mexico up. So the fact that it continues to grow is indicative of the cost pursuit the clients have. But I think the future is really around our ability to weave technology together. She would use the word digital engineering across the different data domains, cloud domains and technologies.

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

So will Mexico be a part of all that? Yes, it will be.

Trevor Romeo
Research Analyst at William Blair

Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Operator

The next question is from Jeff Silber from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Jeffrey Silber
Jeffrey Silber
Senior Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Thank you so much. Wanted to shift back to the federal government segment. If we could just step back, maybe you could just describe what are the mechanics if an agency wanted to cut a contract short before it expires? How much notice do they have to give you? Any details around that and the implications would be great.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Yes. Well, look, a lot of this is new, Jeff, right. So we're kind of seeing this for the first time. I think that if you think about what's been going on, there's it's maybe at two levels that the Doge Group has been pursuing certain contracts that happened to be on the radar screen for whatever reason that they are, And there was an initial wave of that. And then following that, there was edict to the agency heads to find certain cost savings or efficiencies and report back on those, and they've been going through that for the last few months.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

On the second part of that, that I mentioned, we've been engaged with our customer on a one by one basis as they look at the contracts and look at the delivery and whether they're getting the value that they're getting those. And then once they make those decisions, they'll decide to make a what I'll just call a modification to that arrangement or to leave it in place. And so we do that real time with them as that comes up. And so I think that it's a I don't mean to be overly vague about your question, but I don't think that there's a very specific set of rules here to follow as they go through this. Obviously they can do what they say is terminate a contract for convenience and give a certain time period in order for that to come to an end that gives us time to react as well as the other contractors to react on that.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

But again, I think as the client goes through this, it's kind of real time contemplation.

Jeffrey Silber
Jeffrey Silber
Senior Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Okay, I understand. And obviously, a lot has changed since you set your budget for 2025. And I'm just curious about your own internal plans in terms of investing, hiring, capital allocation. Any changes being made to that for the rest of the year?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Look, I guess we're making real time assessments about where to allocate investment inside of the business where we see that there's real opportunity. I think Ship did a great job going through areas where we still see good solid demand with our clients and new bookings. And so we're making sure that if there are areas where we're not getting the bang for the buck in investment that we're reallocating it to those areas. Think that's probably the most important thing. Have to our principles around capital allocation don't change too much here.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

I mean, are kind of longer term thoughts about what is the best allocation of capital for the business and for investors. And we talk about strategic M and A, we talk about next to that the opportunity to repurchase shares and return capital to investors and so those things don't change on just one or two quarter basis. Mean that's kind of a principle of the business if you will going forward. So anyway hopefully that helps and I think we just have to play this as we go through the year because obviously things are developing real time here and so being really smart about recognizing every expense in the business, making sure that it's pointed towards a place where we can get a good productive outcome and ultimately EBITDA margin for that is critical.

Jeffrey Silber
Jeffrey Silber
Senior Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

I understand. Thanks so much for the color.

Operator

Our next question is from Sundar Thind from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Thank you. One of the questions I'd like to start with is just kind of how we should be thinking about intra quarter visibility at this point and the willingness of clients to change minds, start projects, delay projects relative to how they've maybe been behaving over the last six months or so, given that you guys did widen the range? Like I would have assumed intra quarter visibility would have been very high, right, 95%, ninety eight %.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Yes. Well, thanks, Surinder. I I'll let Rand take the overall question. I will tell you that I think it's just the right thing to do here to widen the range because there's a new piece of news almost daily here that all of our clients are reacting to is either like the tariffs or doge. So I think just good caution is what's behind widening the range.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Rand, on the first part of that in terms of what you're seeing starting, stopping projects?

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

Listen, on the government side, as we just discussed with Jeff, it's they have provisions in the contracting process to be able to stop work for convenience. And that can be pretty quickly or real time, as Ted said. On the commercial side, I think surrender we've seen for the last six months, cautiousness and ensure that when they're going to spend money on IT, that they're going to get some value in return and cost saving, drive driven toward cost saving. I don't think we've seen a change in the behavior of the client on the commercial side on that side. So it's just prudence, if you will, to be focused on their cost and I think they're very focused on their cost today just as much as they were six months ago. So I'd say it's pretty steady.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Got it. That's helpful. So I think the interpretation of that would be is the caution is coming more from the government side or the ECS side of the business then in terms of widening the range. That's where the greater amount of uncertainty is. I think that's the way I would interpret your comments.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Well, I don't know if I would interpret that way, Surrender. I think generally there are macro issues in both market segments. And so we're just recognizing that, look, if we were having a problem with projects in commercial being stopped, we would report it to you, you would see low bookings because we would have fee bookings and we're not seeing that. But we are seeing a lot of customers think hard about the go forward because they're wondering how they may be impacted either by tariffs, inflation remaining high or other things that affect their ultimate market place and then could in turn affect their investment. So I would just interpret it as just general caution.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

And look, we only expanded the range by $3,000,000 10 million dollars on the top and a few million on the bottom. It wasn't like this is not as draconian as you will as maybe. If you think back to COVID, we actually didn't give guidance for the second quarter. We gave a pretty dramatic two scenario set of ranges or potential outcomes. I shouldn't call it a range, potential outcomes. So this is nowhere near that.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Okay. That's actually quite helpful. And then as a follow-up, just in terms of when I think about the 2Q margins, at least relative to my expectations, the quarter over quarter improvement isn't quite as significant as it has been in the past. You kind of walked through the puts and takes of the loss of some high margin contracts and so forth. I would have expected TOP Block to offset that.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

And so can you help me understand the margin dynamic here? Because I think unlike the second person that asked the question on the call, I view it as there's more margin weakness here than anticipated relative to the second person's comments, or the second Q and A person.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

Go ahead. Yeah. Surrender, when you think about the Q2, there's a couple factors to consider. First, from a business mix perspective. So we have a slightly higher mix of federal revenue, as you know, carries a lower margin than commercial.

Marie Perry
Marie Perry
Executive VP & CFO at ASGN

And then, what you just referenced and we've been talking about, even on the federal side, it multiplies slightly because of, the impact of DOGE, and those DOGE revenues have higher margins. So the combination of that offset by the incremental for top block gets us to where our range is.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Got it. So I guess put another way, then 2Q should be kind of the average run rate going forward or that starting point on a go forward basis?

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Yes.

Surinder Thind
Surinder Thind
Equity Research Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Next question is from Joseph Vafi from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.

Joseph Vafi
Managing Director, Equity Research at Canaccord Genuity - Global Capital Markets

Hey, everyone. Good afternoon. Welcome on board, Shiv. Just could we drill down a bit on the financial services commentary, Chad? I know at least last quarter it sounded like some of the bigger banks were starting to act just a bit better.

Joseph Vafi
Managing Director, Equity Research at Canaccord Genuity - Global Capital Markets

Heard your commentary, but just wondering kind of how you see the cadence of momentum with those larger bank customers here kind of real time versus kind of what we saw in Q1. Now I have a quick follow-up.

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

Joseph, Ted did mention, I think in the last quarter that we saw an uptick in rec flow, for example, from big banks that's on the Simon side and some good pipeline in the consulting side. What we've seen in the quarter was it just leveled off, just stayed pretty consistent from the first week to the last week that basically showed flatness in the business flow, if you will, from the big banks. Actually, we've talked to some of the big banks, and I think some of them are just doing what we've just talked about in the last couple of minutes with Jeff and surrender. They're just waiting for see how the macros go, make sure they have their things lined up on individual projects, And we haven't seen any major movement back up yet from the financials, from the big banks. Other parts of the sector, I think Ted commented on during the script, but not from the big banks.

Joseph Vafi
Managing Director, Equity Research at Canaccord Genuity - Global Capital Markets

Got it. Thanks for that, Rand. And then just one more on Doge. I mean, kind of talked about some scope changes and other things, areas where there's focus area where it's not. Just in general, I was wondering if you have commentary on kind of velocity of adjudications going on.

Joseph Vafi
Managing Director, Equity Research at Canaccord Genuity - Global Capital Markets

If seeing that the Doge effect kind of ripple into slower decision making on adjudications or is it just really more from the existing book and backlog? Thanks a lot.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

Brandon, do want to take that?

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

Hey Ted, yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. And what we've seen is in the velocity from Doge to our end clients, I mean agency heads, that velocity is less visible to us. What we have seen is agencies making sure that up and down the chain of command that they're in alignment with what they're doing, whether it's curtailing work or, more importantly, continuing work. As Ted mentioned, we've won a few pieces of work in this quarter in a couple of key client areas.

Randolph Blazer
Randolph Blazer
President at ASGN

And every piece of work that gets funded out through the contract is getting checked off by more levels in the agency. So it's more in the agency, I think, is what we would say to you, Joseph, Joe, not so much the DOGE interaction with the agency. And of course, we wouldn't be privy to that at any rate.

Joseph Vafi
Managing Director, Equity Research at Canaccord Genuity - Global Capital Markets

Sure, that makes sense. And thanks for that color. Thanks, Ram. Thanks, everybody.

Operator

Concludes the question and answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back to Ted Hanson, CEO, for any closing comments.

Theodore Hanson
Theodore Hanson
CEO & Member of Board of Directors at ASGN

As we conclude, I'd like to express my gratitude to the entire fabulous ASGN team for your dedication and hard work throughout the past quarter. We have an exceptional team and together we'll continue to advance our business. Thank you again for joining us today. We look forward to speaking in July on our second quarter call.

Operator

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you again for your participation.

Executives
    • Kimberly Esterkin
      Kimberly Esterkin
      VP, Investor Relations
    • Theodore Hanson
      Theodore Hanson
      CEO & Member of Board of Directors
    • Marie Perry
      Marie Perry
      Executive VP & CFO
    • Shiv Iyer
      Shiv Iyer
      President
    • Randolph Blazer
      Randolph Blazer
      President
Analysts
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