Five Point Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
April 24, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • In Q1, Five Point generated net income of $60.6 million, exceeding guidance by approximately $10 million.
  • The company ended the quarter with $653.3 million in total liquidity, net debt effectively zero and a 19.2% debt-to-capitalization ratio.
  • S&P upgraded Five Point’s credit rating from B– to B and its senior notes from B to B+, maintaining a stable outlook.
  • Management highlighted market headwinds—higher mortgage rates, tariff uncertainty and a modest recent slowdown in home-builder sales pace.
  • Five Point reaffirmed its full-year 2025 net income guidance of approximately $200 million, with around $10 million expected in Q2.
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Earnings Conference Call
Five Point Q1 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Greetings, and welcome to the Five Point Holdings LLC First Quarter twenty twenty five Conference Call. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. Today's call may include forward looking statements regarding Five Point's business, financial condition, operations, cash flow, strategy and prospects. Forward looking statements represent Five Point's estimates on the date of this conference call and are not intended to give any assurance as to actual future results. Because forward looking statements relate to matters that have not yet occurred, these statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties.

Operator

Many factors could affect future results and may cause Five Point's actual activities or results to differ materially from the activities and results anticipated in forward looking statements. These factors include those described in today's press release and Five Point's SEC filings, including those in the Risk Factors section of Five Point's most recent annual report on Form 10 ks filed with the SEC. Please note that Five Point assumes no obligation to update any forward looking statements. Now I would like to turn the call over to Dan Hetigan, President and Chief Executive Officer.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Thank you. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining our call. I have with me today Mike Alvarado, our Chief Operating Officer and Chief Legal Officer Kim Tobler, our Chief Financial Officer and Leo Key, our Senior Vice President of Finance and Reporting. Stuart Miller, our Executive Chairman is joining us remotely. On today's call, I'll update you on our Q1 results and review the status of the company's current operations, including our team's focus during the quarter and our strategic priorities and expectations for the remainder of 2025.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Mike will then discuss the growth element of our operating strategy, after which Kim will give you an overview of the company's financial performance and conditions, with updated guidance for the remainder of 2025. We will then open the line for questions. Turning to the first quarter, I'm pleased to report another successful quarter for Five Point as we continue to build a program of consistent profitability. During the quarter, we generated stronger than expected net income of $60,600,000 which exceeded our guidance by roughly $10,000,000 Our Q1 results reflect our continued focus on generating revenue, controlling our expenses and managing our capital spend. Here are some additional highlights from the quarter.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

First, our Great Park Venture closed on all four of our anticipated residential land sales. These programs included three twenty five homesites on approximately 23.6 acres to three different builders for an aggregate purchase price of $278,900,000 Second, as a result of the Great Park operations during the quarter, Five Point received 143,300,000.0 as its portion of distribution and its incentive compensation payments. Third, we finished the quarter with total liquidity of $653,300,000 comprised of cash and cash equivalents totaling $528,300,000 an increase on our cash over year end of $97,500,000 and borrowing availability of $125,000,000 under our unsecured revolving credit facility. Alongside our successful first quarter, I'm also happy to report that we received an upgrade in our credit rating from S and P. In recognition of our consistent earnings, cash generation and management of overhead, the company moved from B- to B with a continued stable outlook and our senior notes were upgraded from B to B plus As we look ahead to the remainder of 2025, we recognize that we are currently navigating a challenging economic environment with market uncertainty created by shifting tariff policies, higher mortgage rates and associated affordability issues.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Our job is to filter out the noise and stay focused on underlying economic data at both the national and local level. While we are carefully monitoring results reported by the National Home Builders, I understand that several are experiencing reduced margins. Our communities are located in California markets that are chronically undersupplied, primarily due to California's challenging and restrictive land use approval process. Our recently closed sales, including one this past week at Great Park, are continuing evidence that there remains strong demand for our home sites even with builders facing the uncertainty of current market conditions. Notwithstanding this uncertainty, we believe it is still an opportune time to move forward on the implementation of growth initiatives to complement our three existing communities.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

These growth initiatives will build upon the operating strategy we have been executing on for the past few years. I'll have a few more remarks about that strategy shortly. Let me turn briefly, however, to our current operating strategy. The key elements of the strategy are: one, we're optimizing homesite value within our existing three premier master plan communities and matching homesite sales to current homebuilder demand. Currently, homebuilder demand remains steady, and we continue to maximize the value of our land and maintain the margins embedded in that value.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Two, we are carefully managing our fixed costs and overhead even while we pursue growth opportunities. We're also constantly looking to reduce or mitigate some of the fixed costs that come with these larger master plan communities, and we're maintaining the lean operating structure that has defined Five Point for the past few years. We're matching development expenditures with revenue generation. Each new development area within our existing communities is analyzed from a construction phasing standpoint as we work alongside our public partners to deliver our infrastructure so that we are not deploying cash too far out in front of the needs of the development. Finally, we are seeking growth opportunities through new acquisitions, joint ventures and strategic relationships to ensure a growing future for Five Point.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Our focus remain on these strategic elements of our operating platform as we produce recurring earnings along sustainable long term growth. With that said, while we know there might be some uncertainty from time to time, we remain confident in our current year expectations. My last call indicated that we were expecting that our earnings for 2025 would exceed 2024 and that we anticipated close to $200,000,000 in net income, with obvious caveats regarding the timing of development processes within the County Of Los Angeles. We currently believe that we are on track to meet our prior guidance, while we will continue to monitor evolving market conditions as the year progresses. Tim will provide more detail on our guidance for the remainder of 2025 during his remarks.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

I'd like to now touch on market conditions. Although the Federal Reserve has cut rates by 100 basis points since September, recently announced tariff policies have created upward pressure on interest rates and inflation, with key mortgage interest rates moving mostly higher since the end of the quarter. Consumer sentiment has also been negatively impacted by the uncertainty surrounding tariff policies, which impacts consumer decisions on new home sales. Most of our guest builders still have the ability to facilitate sales, but we have seen a modest decline in the pace of sales over the past few weeks. Although interest rates and consumer sentiment are key data points in the housing market, Five Point's California markets generally remain chronically undersupplied, we're actively engaged with our gift builders on new home site sales.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Let me now provide you with some updates on our communities, starting with the Great Park Neighborhoods. As a reminder, the Great Park is the most mature of our communities and its ongoing contribution to our financial results reflects the benefits that we and our Great Park Venture Partners are receiving from the investments made in this community in prior years. During the first quarter, builders in our Great Park community sold two thirty three homes versus 143 homes in Q4 twenty twenty four. We currently have 15 active selling programs in the Great Park neighborhoods with five additional programs planned to open later this year. With the existing and future plan programs, we'll be able to continue to offer a wide variety of housing options in Great Park neighborhoods.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

In addition to our continuing homebuyer interest, we are still seeing demand from builders for our land at the Great Park. All the five residential programs I previously identified as expected to close in the first half of twenty twenty five have now closed escrow with the last sale closing one week ago. We have also completed the bidding and contracting for a group of nine new residential programs being sold to six builders totaling five seventy two homesites. These builders have completed their due diligence with the expectation that these land sales would close in the fourth quarter of this year. The contracted sales price are consistent with our most recent sales.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

As I mentioned last quarter, the City of Irvine completed state mandated RHNA general plan and zoning updates for the Great Park Planning Area, which will provide the Great Park Venture with the opportunity to convert some or substantial portions of its remaining commercial land holdings to residential uses. We're continuing to study these options and are in ongoing discussion with the city to consider residential uses consistent with the Arena program adopted by the city. Next, I'll move to Valencia, our other active community. As a reminder, Valencia is in the early stages of its development and sells many future phases of land delivery ahead of it, which will enable us to provide much needed housing in Los Angeles market. During the first quarter, home sales remained relatively steady as our guest builder sold 69 homes versus 74 in Q4.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

We currently have seven actively selling programs in Valencia. Additionally, we anticipate another five programs will open during 2025, offering a greater diversity of home offerings for prospective home buyers. During the first quarter, we took two new communities to market, totaling 159 homesites, and we're working with two builders to finalize their due diligence and enter binding purchase and sale agreements. We currently anticipate these sales will close towards the end of the year. We also continue to work with Los Angeles County and other agencies on our regulatory approvals for our next development areas in Valencia that allow us to deliver thousands of additional home sites in the county's severely undersupplied market.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

In total, these development areas are expected to consist of approximately 8,900 market rate home sites and 183 net acres of commercial land, approximately 139 of which is expected to cater towards industrial focused uses. Additionally, given the recent loss of dwelling in this LA County wildfires, we expect greater cooperation between officials and developers to expect more housing supply to help mitigate the shortage. Turning to San Francisco. As you may remember from our last call, the city and county and other applicable regulatory agencies gave us final approval to rebalance the entitlements between our two San Francisco communities, Candlestick and The Shipyard. We're currently working on our engineering for the next phase of infrastructure with the expectation of starting construction early next year.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

As we work on these plans, we continue to explore opportunities to bring in a strategic partner for this mixed use Bayfront community. Let me conclude by saying that while the housing and financial markets are adjusting to new policies and consumers are trying to gauge the impact of these policies on their home buying decisions, we will remain focused on prudently managing development and sale of land within our master plan communities. Land is still about location and scarcity. We have well located land in an extremely supply constrained market. In addition, our balance sheet and liquidity have us well positioned to work through the current market conditions and to preserve the value of our land holdings, while we opportunistically explore growth opportunities.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Additionally, we remain ever focused on managing costs and controlling overhead as we grow our business in an efficient manner. Now let me turn it over to Mike, who will discuss Five Point's growth opportunities.

Mike Alvarado
Mike Alvarado
COO, CLO, VP and Secretary at Five Point

Thanks, Dan. Let me briefly update you on our efforts in pursuing growth opportunities for Five Point. As you heard us report on our last call, the land light strategy that a number of publicly traded homebuilders have gravitated towards has given Five Point the potential opportunity to work alongside the builders in a win win scenario that would allow the builders to follow their land light strategy and Five Point to play to a strength in the land development business. To that end, we have been assessing acquisitions that fit into both short term and mid to long term land delivery models. In uncertain market conditions like we have today, unique opportunities often present themselves around land that can enable Five Point to create outsized returns.

Mike Alvarado
Mike Alvarado
COO, CLO, VP and Secretary at Five Point

Five Point is uniquely positioned to do this, given its expertise and experience in a land development business. Regardless of the size and projected development timeline for new acquisitions, like many of the public builders, we intend to acquire new assets in an asset light structure, where we are bringing in third party capital in a joint venture arrangement that will allow us to expand the reach and diversity of our platform. As I have mentioned previously, this model is one in which we would own an equity interest in the venture, provide management services to the venture and have the ability to earn an incentive promoted interest for excellent performance. Bringing in capital partners reduces our capital investment and gives Five Point opportunities to move to an asset lighter balance sheet model under a well crafted partnership program. It is not lost on us that capital may be slow to make investment decisions in this current environment, but the need and demand for housing in many job centers around the country will continue to drive the deployment of capital into this market segment.

Mike Alvarado
Mike Alvarado
COO, CLO, VP and Secretary at Five Point

Capital also likes to invest with companies whose management teams have extensive experience with embedded systematic financial and operational controls that can be trusted when investing their capital. Five Point has the management experience and expertise along with public company level financial and operational controls, which can and has led to extraordinary achievements like what we are seeing with our existing Great Park Venture. Indeed, the Great Park Venture's members have seen rising returns over the last several years, driven by a combination of our management of the asset and the active engagement of the partners. We believe this is a business model that we can take advantage of as we look at other opportunities for future growth of the company. While we don't have any transactions to report at this time, we still anticipate sharing new opportunities with you before the end of the year.

Mike Alvarado
Mike Alvarado
COO, CLO, VP and Secretary at Five Point

Now let me turn it over to Kim to report on our financial results for the quarter.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Thank you, Mike. As Mike and Dan have shared, we are proud of how we concluded our first quarter by exceeding our guidance. While at the same time, we've been monitoring the markets closely as we look forward to the coming quarters and our land development activities and anticipated land sales later this year. First, as Dan noted, S and P recently reviewed our credit rating and determined it was appropriate to improve our ratings. I appreciate the time and effort S and P put forward to understand our structure and strategy and the confidence they have expressed in our ability to execute on our plans for the next twelve months.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

I'm now going to review our first quarter financial results, then I will conclude by updating the guidance of what we are expecting for the remainder of 2025. In the first quarter, we recognized $60,600,000 of net income. This is made up of the following components. We recognized 71,400,000.0 of equity and earnings from our unconsolidated entities, dollars 70,900,000.0 of which came from the Great Park Venture. The equity and earnings from the Great Park Venture was attributable to net income of $206,300,000 which resulted from land sales revenue of 278,900,000 and a 75% gross margin.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

The venture also had $6,400,000 of price participation in Papa revenue. Five Point added $12,600,000 of management services revenue, 9,200,000.0 of which is associated with the incentive compensation from the Great Park. Our first quarter SG and A was $14,800,000 And finally, we recognized $9,500,000 of tax expense. Now a few words about our liquidity and cash. As Dan mentioned, we ended the quarter with 528,300,000 of cash, as well as $125,000,000 of availability on our revolving credit facility, resulting in total liquidity of $653,300,000 At the end of the quarter, our debt to total capitalization ratio was 19.2% and our net debt is effectively zero.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

During the quarter, we generated net cash flow of $97,500,000 with significant components of which were cash inflows of $112,900,000 from the Great Park Venture distributions and $30,400,000 from incentive compensation payments. This was offset by project related costs at Valencia and San Francisco and SG and A cash outflows of $51,100,000 combined. The remaining net positive cash flow of $5,300,000 was from miscellaneous sources. Now, let me update the guidance that I gave you concerning our expectations for the remainder of 2025. We currently expect to have just under $10,000,000 of net income for the second quarter, with the balance of our anticipated earnings weighted towards the end of the year.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

You'll recall that we previously indicated that we expect to have net income for the full year of close to $200,000,000 with the caveat that processes within the County Of Los Angeles would function as we hoped during the going into the year. While there is plenty of noise in the markets, we have not had any indications that would cause us to modify our guidance at this time. As it relates to our cash and senior debt, we are continuing to monitor the debt markets and the economic environment generally, and we remain ready to effect a refinance transaction for our senior notes, including a pay down of principal when we deem it prudent to do so. With that, let me turn it back to the operator, who will now open it up for questions.

Operator

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. Our first question comes from the line of Kenneth Pounds with Castlebury Advisory. Please proceed with your question.

Kenneth Pounds
President at Castlebury Advisory

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Very good quarter. The governor mentioned that perhaps there'd be some layers of regulation taken off or some speed up because of even the more acute housing situation? Would that potentially benefit your two developments?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Hi, Kenneth. Thanks for the question. The answer is absolutely. Anything we can do to expedite process in California is supportive of us delivering housing.

Kenneth Pounds
President at Castlebury Advisory

Is there anything like finite on there? Have you seen any like changes in rules or timelines?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

There's been a lot of discussion in Sacramento, but we haven't seen anything concrete yet. But there also is a lot of legislation this year because there is an increased focus every year on the lack of housing supply in California. So I don't have anything today I could share with you. There is a lot of activity that we're monitoring in Sacramento.

Kenneth Pounds
President at Castlebury Advisory

Great. Talked about San Francisco, guess, starting next year. Do you have when would you perhaps have some CapEx plans or more of a budget for next year for that?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Yes, Kenneth, we'll like this is Tim. We'll likely start giving some insight on that towards the end of the year, early next year.

Kenneth Pounds
President at Castlebury Advisory

Great. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ben Fadretner with Space Summit Capital.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

Just for the record, I'm calling in a personal capacity, not for any firm. So you have cash roughly equal to your debt. Every week that goes by, there's a drag that costs shareholders money. Why aren't you being more proactive in reducing the debt while you wait for market conditions? I just don't see the point of sitting with so much cash right now when you have a negative carry. Can you comment?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Yes. Ben, this is Kim. The challenge that we face is the 200 basis point cost of paying down the debt. And there was a short period of time when it made it seemed to make sense if we could have refinanced at a lower rate. But given the way the markets have moved, it doesn't seem prudent until that premium is removed late in the year.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

So just to say, we said, we are monitoring the markets. We recognize that it is a bit of a carry, but we are also earning quite a bit on the cash. Are earning a good return. Earning over 4% on the money we have. And that's that 200 basis points on the full amount makes a very significant dent in the ability to do that. We're looking at it.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

But on that point, just to push back, I mean, you can earn about 4% on cash. It costs you over 10% in coupon. So you're spending $30,000,000 of negative carry, the cost to take that out would be $10,000,000 I mean, I'm not suggesting you take out the whole thing. But I just the math on taking out some of it now, I think, is accretive. I don't see why you would incur a six point delta for seven months when you can take it out right now at 102.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

It just it seems like cost effective to do so. But I wanted to go on record saying that.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Yes. I appreciate it, Ben.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

So in terms of just the Great Park land sales that you did, it's amazing. The numbers just keep going higher. It looks like it was around $12,000,000 per acre for this last land sale. When you say that the additional land sales will be in line with what occurred, just to be clear, you're saying that $12,000,000 is now the future number? Or is it kind of the 10,000,000 that you had talked about previously?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Ben, this is Dan. The blended number on the last four sales that closed where I gave you the information revenue is about $11,800,000 We are still seeing sales in that area. I would not start suggesting that 12 is the new standard. But our most recent sale and other bids we have out there are consistent with that $11,000,000 number.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

Okay. And then just in terms of the commercial land and the ability to or the potential ability to convert it into residential, what do you think the timing looks like in terms of having the go ahead from the city of Irvine to re entitle that land for residential purposes?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Ben, we're in kind of ongoing discussions on that topic, and I don't think I can really put a timeframe for it. Just know that we are actively involved looking at it. And we'll have more information later this year.

Ben Fader-Rattner
Managing Member at Space Summit Capital

Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. Appreciate it. Great quarter.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Obin, a Private Investor. Please proceed with your question.

Analyst

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. And I apologize if I can find this somewhere in the 10 ks. But how much commercial land do you have left entitled in Irvine as far as acres?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

So We have I'm doing the math. We have 100 acres of commercial land between four sites that we constantly look at. We call lots two, seven, 10 and 11.

Analyst

Okay. And there would be some obviously that couldn't all be sold in this way. There have to be some left for open space and stuff like that. Is that fair?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Well, those are actually all of our open space and other obligations and that type of land have already been met through other obligations. So these are gross acres, though. You don't get 100% efficiency in the sense that you do have streets, parks, some other things that would go into them on a residential basis.

Analyst

Okay. Are you willing to give a what like was that like 80% or something or not enough?

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Generally speaking, just as a matter of course use 85

Analyst

Yes, great quarter. Thanks a lot for answering my question.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Myron Kaplan, a Private Investor. Please proceed with

Analyst

your Ken. How are you?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Doing well, Myron.

Analyst

So really, the Great Park is a gift that never stops giving?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Absolutely. We're very grateful for the work that's been done there.

Analyst

Yes. It's super, very good quarter. So I guess the plan is at the end of the year to refi then finally, like you said, where you wait for the two points to come off?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Yes, if the markets are open. If you've been following the high yield markets, it's a bit challenging out there right now.

Analyst

Well, hell, you could pay off the bond and probably work a very small issue of $250,000,000 and then you have the revolver and you're in business.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Yes. We're looking at all those options, Meyer.

Analyst

Yes. I mean, I don't see how the market is going to refuse you. Anyway, very good. I guess, Valencia, you're to try to gear up?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Yes. We're trying to get a reasonable pipeline that gives us the strength to have multiple years of product available to give us a longer pipeline, and we're working hard on that process.

Analyst

Do all of the Palisades fires and stuff, does that augment the thrust behind it? Or is it everything kind of is frozen?

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Well, think that the the recent fires have created need. We're still sorting out the impacts it has on the government approval processes.

Analyst

Okay. Well, we'll patient. And I guess San Francisco is a work in progress.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

It is, but we'll have more to say about that later in the year as well.

Analyst

Okay. Well done. Thanks.

Kim Tobler
Kim Tobler
CFO, VP & Treasurer at Five Point

Thanks, Myron.

Operator

Thank you. And we have reached the end of the question and answer session. I would like to turn the floor back to Dan Hetigan for closing remarks.

Daniel Hedigan
Daniel Hedigan
President & CEO at Five Point

Thank you. On behalf of our management team, we thank you for joining us on today's call and look forward to speaking with you next quarter.

Operator

Thank you. And this concludes today's conference and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

Executives
    • Daniel Hedigan
      Daniel Hedigan
      President & CEO
    • Mike Alvarado
      Mike Alvarado
      COO, CLO, VP and Secretary
    • Kim Tobler
      Kim Tobler
      CFO, VP & Treasurer
Analysts
    • Kenneth Pounds
      President at Castlebury Advisory
    • Ben Fader-Rattner
      Managing Member at Space Summit Capital
    • Analyst
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