NACCO Industries Q1 2025 Earnings Report

NACCO Industries EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.66
• Consensus EPS: N/A
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

NACCO Industries Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $65.57 million
• Expected Revenue: N/A
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

NACCO Industries Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q1 2025
• Date: 4/30/2025
• Time: After Market Closes
• Conference Call Date: Thursday, May 1, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 8:30AM ET

NACCO Industries (NYSE:NC) is a Cleveland, Ohio–based diversified holding company with a history spanning more than a century. Through its principal subsidiaries, the company operates in two primary business areas: coal mining and material-handling system design and manufacturing. Originally incorporated in 1913, NACCO has maintained a presence on the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol NC since the 1920s, evolving its portfolio to meet changing market demands while preserving its core expertise in bulk commodities and industrial services.

The North American Coal Corporation, NACCO’s coal mining segment, is among the largest producers of lignite coal in the United States. It operates surface mines under long-term contracts, supplying electric utilities and industrial customers with reliably priced coal. Mining operations are concentrated in the U.S. Gulf Coast and Northern Plains regions, where the company emphasizes safety, environmental stewardship and operational efficiency through advanced mining practices and reclamation programs.

NACCO’s Materials Handling Group specializes in the design, engineering and manufacturing of semi-mobile conveyors, structural conveyors, advanced stacking and reclaiming systems, as well as material processing equipment. These turnkey solutions serve a wide array of industries, including coal, minerals, aggregates and biomass. With engineering and production facilities across North America, the group supports project planning, installation and ongoing maintenance for customers seeking to optimize bulk-material logistics.

Leadership at NACCO Industries is focused on driving sustainable growth, operational excellence and shareholder value. Daniel S. Voytovich serves as president and chief executive officer, overseeing corporate strategy and governance. The company’s board of directors and executive management team maintain a disciplined capital allocation framework, aiming to balance investment in core operations, return of capital to shareholders and prudent financial management.

NACCO Industries Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• Consolidated operating profit increased by over 60% year-over-year, driving a 7% rise in net income and a 14% gain in adjusted EBITDA for Q1 2025.
• The Coal Mining segment’s adjusted EBITDA more than tripled thanks to higher pricing at Falkirk and improved efficiency at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company.
• Mitigation Resources reported its second consecutive profitable quarter and expects full-year profitability, while the Minerals Management segment delivered a 10% EBITDA increase aided by a new Hugoton Basin investment.
• Sawtooth Mining, as exclusive miner for the Thacker Pass lithium project, supported the final investment decision with Lithium Americas and GM, with phase one production targeted for late 2027.
• 2025 guidance anticipates a modest increase in consolidated operating profit and continued cash-flow growth, although a non-cash pension settlement charge will dampen net income; the company holds $62 million in cash and $90.5 million revolver availability to fund dividends and share repurchases.

Presentation

[Operator]

This call is being recorded on Thursday, May 1, 2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Christina Kmetko, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our 2025 Q1 Earnings Call and Webcast. Thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Christina Kmetko, and I'm responsible for Investor Relations at NACCO. Joining me today are J.C. Butler, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Elizabeth Loveman, Senior Vice President and Controller. Yesterday, we published our 2025 Q1 results and filed our 10-Q. This information is available on our website. Our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions, contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to several risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements made here today. These risks include, among others, matters that we've described in our earnings release, 10-Q, and other SEC filings. We may not update these forward-looking statements until our next quarterly earnings conference call.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

We'll also be discussing non-GAAP information that we believe is useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. Reconciliations for these non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release and on our website. Now I'll turn the call over to J.C. for some opening remarks. J.C.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Thank you, Christy, and good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to report another quarter of strong financial results. Consolidated operating profit increased over 60%. While this improvement was partly offset by higher net interest expense and a reduction in other income, we still delivered a 7% increase in net income and a 14% increase in EBITDA. Christy will provide more detail about these financial results in a minute, but first, let me talk about our operations. The significant improvement in operating profit was driven by our Coal Mining segment, where segment-adjusted EBITDA more than tripled over the prior year. There were two primary reasons for this improvement. First, we had an increase in earnings at our unconsolidated operations led by higher pricing at Falkirk and a moderate increase in customer demand at Coteau.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Second, Mississippi Lignite Mining Company operated more efficiently on improved customer demand compared to 2024 when the Red Hills Power Plant was operating with only one of its two boilers. I'm thrilled to see these improvements in our Coal Mining segment. We are also encouraged by the current administration's actions, which are fostering a more favorable regulatory environment for the fossil fuel industry. Mitigation Resources also contributed positively to the improvement in consolidated operating profit and EBITDA. This business reported its second consecutive quarter of profitability and anticipates generating profit for the full year. North American Mining is operating well, but its results were affected by reduced customer demand, some of which is due to temporary one-off situations, while some customers are experiencing a softer market. Operating profit decreased on a significant reduction in year-over-year tons sold, as well as an increase in operating expenses.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

This decline was partly offset by an increase in part sales. While this quarter did not provide a favorable year-over-year comparison at North American Mining, results improved compared with the Q4 of 2024. We expect North American Mining to generate increasing levels of operating profit and EBITDA over time as benefits from new and extended contracts add to the profitability of existing contracts. Let me shift to Sawtooth Mining, which is the exclusive contract miner for the Thacker Pass lithium project in northern Nevada. Lithium Americas continues to make progress on the Thacker Pass project. Lithium Americas and General Motors recently announced their final investment decision for construction of Phase I of the project. We view this as a positive step toward development of a US produced lithium supply chain that will reduce American dependence on foreign suppliers for critical minerals.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

We continue to support the project by assisting with certain construction services as they ramp up work to build the lithium processing plant. Phase I production continues to be estimated to begin in late 2027. At Minerals Management, segment-adjusted EBITDA increased 10% over the prior year. As we mentioned in our year-end earnings release, during the Q4 of 2024, Minerals Management increased their investment in a company that holds non-operated working interests in oil and natural gas assets in the Hugoton Basin. This investment drove the improvement in segment EBITDA and is expected to continue to be accretive to future earnings. We are very pleased with the work done by the Catapult Mineral Partners team, which manages this segment.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

While we continue to budget up to $20 million annually to expand our portfolio and provide long-term stable cash flow generation, our business model allows flexibility regarding the cadence and type of investments we make based on available opportunities that we believe will result in significant long-term value and increasing profitability. We believe that this expansion and diversification program has us well positioned to generate increasing levels of operating profit and EBITDA well into the future. The current quarter's results support my belief that 2025 is a pivotal transition year for our company, which is described in more detail in our most recent annual report. Overall, I'm pleased with the way all of our businesses continue to advance their strategies, and I continue to be very optimistic about the future. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Christy to cover our quarterly details and outlook in more detail.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Christy?

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Thank you, J.C. At the consolidated level, we reported operating profit of $7.7 million and net income of $4.9 million, or $0.66 per share. This compared to a 2024 Q1 operating profit of $4.8 million and net income of $4.6 million, or $0.61 per share. Adjusted EBITDA increased to $12.8 million from $11.2 million in 2024. As J.C. mentioned, the significant improvement in operating profit was primarily driven by a substantial increase in the Coal Mining segment, operating profit, and improved results at Mitigation Resources. These improvements were partly offset by lower North American Mining segment results and an increase in unallocated operating expenses, principally employee-related and outside service costs. The improvement in operating profit was offset by a $3.3 million unfavorable change in other income expense moving from prior year other income to current year other expense.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

This decrease was due to lower investment income and higher net interest expense and resulted in a moderate decrease in income before taxes. Lower income tax expense in 2025 compared with 2024 led to the moderate increase in our consolidated net income. Moving to the individual segments, our Coal Mining segment reported operating profit of $3.8 million and generated segment-adjusted EBITDA of $5.8 million in the 2025 Q1. In 2024, this segment had an operating loss of $400,000 and segment-adjusted EBITDA of $1.8 million. As J.C. already discussed, year-over-year improvements at both our consolidated and unconsolidated mines led to these favorable results. J.C. already provided explanations of the North American Mining and Minerals Management segments results, so I'll discuss the financials. At North American Mining, operating profit decreased to $2 million from $2.4 million in the prior year Q1.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Segment-adjusted EBITDA of $4.7 million was comparable to the prior year. Minerals Management's Q1 2025 operating profit of $7.9 million was comparable year-over-year, while segment-adjusted EBITDA increased to $9.8 million from $8.9 million a year ago. Looking forward, in 2025, we expect to generate a moderate year-over-year increase in consolidated operating profit. In the Coal Mining segment, 2025 customer demand is expected to lead to a modest increase in deliveries compared with 2024. In addition, the Coal Mining segment expects to benefit from the absence of temporary price concessions at Falkirk. Mississippi Lignite Mining Company continues to recover from inefficiencies experienced while its customers, Red Hills Power Plant, operated on one of two boilers for more than half of 2024.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

With the power plant now anticipated to operate at a level consistent with historical averages, coal deliveries are expected to return to more normal levels, resulting in modestly improved cost efficiencies. However, an anticipated reduction in the 2025 contractually determined per ton sales price compared with 2024 is expected to offset these improvements, leading to lower results at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company. This, combined with an anticipated increase in operating expenses in the coal segment overall, is expected to result in a modest year-over-year decrease in Coal Mining segment operating profit. North American Mining is expected to deliver improved results in 2025, with anticipated lower first-half results offset by expected performance gains in the second half of the year. While customer demand is projected to remain relatively stable year-over-year, profitability improvements will be driven by operational efficiencies and an increased focus on parts sales.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Minerals Management's high-quality, diversified portfolio of oil and gas mineral interests provides a strong foundation of well-positioned assets that are expected to continue to deliver solid financial results. As J.C. mentioned, Minerals Management's 2024 investment in a company operating in the Hugoton Basin is expected to continue to contribute to the anticipated improvement in 2025 operating profit over 2024 first half earnings are expected to be comparable to prior year results, with an anticipated significant improvement in the second half given anticipated trends in oil and natural gas prices and projected volumes. We expect to complete the termination of our defined benefit pension plan this year. Once complete, obligations under the terminated plan will be transferred to a third-party insurance provider, eliminating future earnings volatility from changes in our pension obligation.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Although the plan is currently overfunded, a significant non-cash settlement charge is anticipated upon termination that will result in a substantial decrease in net income compared with 2024. Excluding the anticipated settlement charge, net income is expected to decrease moderately from 2024. Before I discuss our liquidity and cash flow, I wanted to point out that we have added total assets by segment to our segment disclosures in the 10-Q. We believe this information will help our investors better understand the value of each of our segments. Looking at other balance sheet and cash flow information, we had consolidated cash of approximately $62 million and debt of $96 million at March 31, 2025. The availability under our revolver was $90.5 million.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

During the Q1, we paid $1.7 million in dividends and repurchased approximately 22,000 shares of our Class A common stock at prevailing market prices for an aggregate purchase price of $700,000. As of March 31, 2025, we had $7.8 million remaining under our $20 million share repurchase program that expires at the end of this year. Based on our current business plan, we project a steady increase in annual cash flow generation beginning in 2025. We will now turn to any questions you may have.

[Operator]

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star, followed by the one on your touch-tone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press star, followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. Our first question comes from the line of Doug Weiss with DSW Investments.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Hey, good morning.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Good morning.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

I guess just starting with the coal segment, and focusing on Mississippi Lignite, I guess that continues to show gross profit losses, although I think there was a $3 million inventory charge in the quarter. Can you just say, can you just explain a little bit what leads to those recurring inventory charges?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

I just want to make sure you're asking about the inventory impairment. Is that correct? Yep.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Yeah.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

It's basically, what is the cost of the coal on the pile, which is determined by regular sort of inventory accounting compared to the sales price. There's a couple of things going on with respect to that. One is last year was a pretty inefficient year because for part of the year we operated really with reduced costs, but you can't really cut it in half, even though the power plant for the first part of the year was only taking half load because one of the boilers was out. That ended up with a situation where we were putting pretty high-cost coal into the inventory that we continue to work our way out of.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

The other side of it is on the price side, we've got a lower adjustment in the price right now, which I know we've talked about this before, is determined by a formula that's in the contract. It's the same formula that's been there since the contract was signed in the mid-late 1990s. That formula price looks at a basket of indices that anybody can pull off government data sites, and they are partly based on a one-year change in those indices and partly based in a five-year change in those indices. One year is pretty normal. There's nothing odd happening there. If you think about five years ago right now, right, we were May 1st of 2020, and if you think about indices for various commodities and factors in the US economy, they were all over the place.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

For the next, I'd say, year or so, we're going to go through a period where the price is going to be influenced by this five-year change in prices. It's looking at what it was five years ago versus now. We've got some noise in all of this on the pricing side related to the fact that we just had very odd movement in the indices from five years ago. It's really a combination of higher-priced coal on the pile because of inefficiencies last year and some strange things going through what should otherwise be pretty normal movement in index-adjusted price. I think when we get through this period when the price is behaving in strange ways and we get more normal operating costs flowing through the inventory, this is all going to return to a more normal pace.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Is that probably next year?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

I would say yes, but barring any other thing happening in the future, it's a comparison from current indices to past indices, whether that's one year in the past or five years in the past. I can't tell you what I expect to happen with those indices over the next year or two.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

My understanding is they would be based on price increases, right? If we got into a, I guess you haven't, I don't think you've given too much detail on what the individual components are. I think you might have mentioned labor was one of them, but.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

One of the larger indices in all of this is diesel.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Diesel. Okay. Interesting. I see.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

That's working in prices in the last five years.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

I see. Yeah. It is really, so oil prices have an influence on this.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Yep.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. I guess it just kind of conceptually, that's the revenue component, but on the cost side, that would sort of flow through. I mean, that could normalize over the next year. Is that the right way to think about that?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Yes. I mean, assuming that the plant operates as we think it will, the cost side should normalize.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Yeah. Okay.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Including the cost of inventory that are on the stockpile.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Right. Okay.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

A coal mine is an operation that has a lot of fixed costs. You get your best efficiencies like any kind of factory when it's operating at its designed level. When you have periods when you're operating at a lower level, it just increases your unit cost. It's really no different than a factory.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Right. Right. Okay. In terms of regulatory, a more favorable regulatory environment, are there practical implications there? I know you had some pending EPA issues, so I assume that those are less of a concern, but are there other practical implications?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

I mean, the EPA, I mean, it's not just the EPA. It's the Department of Energy. It's the Department of Interior. I mean, you've got an administration that is very focused on developing United States resources, which include incredibly abundant coal, oil, and natural gas, fossil fuels. Two weeks ago, was it two weeks ago, three weeks ago, Liz, the president, we sort of are referring to it internally as Coal Day, but the president signed four executive orders that were focused on really focused on coal, but it included things that dealt with making sure that people are looking at the stability of the grid before any coal-fired power plants are retired. One of them made coal a critical mineral in the government context.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

He asked agencies to look at any sort of regulatory biases against fossil fuels, including coal, and get those out of the process, and also encouraging people to look at developing coal resources, particularly when it can support the 24/7 energy needs in data and AI. You ought to just, I'm not going to describe it as well as you can find on the internet. I'd encourage you just to Google presidential executive orders on coal, and you can read through the four, but it's pretty good stuff.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. Let's see. On North American Mining, is Thacker going to be consolidated or unconsolidated?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

It's consolidated.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. In terms of normal seasonality there, is the Q1 typically a soft quarter anyway? I mean, what would be the cadence of earnings for that segment?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

In North American Mining, I mean, I don't think there really is much seasonality to that, but largely because of where we operate. A majority of our operations are in Florida, although we are expanding across the country, but it's mostly in southern states. You don't really get any seasonality unless from time to time you get a hurricane that goes across Florida, and that can disrupt operations in varying degrees. Depends on where the hurricane hits and what the damage is and things like that. That's really the only kind of seasonality that I'd think of is in that business. Otherwise, it sort of just marches along quarter-by-quarter.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Was weather a factor again in the Q1?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Not really. I think what we saw in the Q1 is there were a few one-off situations, although situations sort of imply something negative. It's just periodic outages on draglines and customer pauses in their operations while they do things on their side of the fence. We had some of that going on in the Q1, and then we have had some customers that are just seeing a modest decline in demand. Nothing dramatic, but they're seeing some softening demand, and that causes because we're feeding their operations. We're fully integrated into their quarries, and we're operating at specific quarries for them. It's really what demand are they seeing at their quarries and what sort of production they need out of us. It's a little bit of one-off stuff, and it's a little bit of some just economic softness with some customers.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Yeah. Makes sense. I guess then on free cash flow, it looked like there were a number of puts and takes on working capital. I guess the biggest is you had a large item for mining supplies inventory, which you have a non-current asset, so I assume that's more than a year. Do you still expect working capital to be a source of cash this year? I guess why that large step up in that mining supplies inventory?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

It really wasn't a step up. If you look, we just reclassed a portion from current to long-term. We really dug into our inventory, and a lot of that is just critical spares, and we don't necessarily have a plan to use them in the next 12 months. We reclassified a portion of that. If you add up the total, it's $94.3 million of inventory, which compares to $94.6 million last year. It was just a reclassification within the balance sheet to better differentiate what we expect to turn in 12 months versus not.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Doug, if you think about the. Think about the fact that we operate on the North American Mining side of the business in particular, we operate something like 35 draglines, plus or minus. It's a single machine that's an important part of the customer's factory, right? We've got a dragline on site that's producing the aggregates that our customer will wash, crush, size, and sell to its customers. If we have an unexpected outage because of a component failure on a dragline, that can be a very serious issue because some of these components on these draglines can take months to acquire, which is why we keep critical components on hand in our inventory. As Liz described, we took a deep dive into that and decided that some of those things may get used.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

I mean, look, you never know when you're going to have an unplanned outage, but we looked at a number of these parts and said, "We're holding these for the long term." Really think of this as an insurance. Holding the part is really like an insurance policy on the operation of that machine. That is why we reclassified them from short-term to long-term.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. Makes sense. Do you still think.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Your overall question about working capital, though, we're not really a working capital-driven business. When we have a dragline outage coming up, particularly in our North American Mining part of the business, or it could be at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company, we will increase our inventory because you want to have all the parts on hand when you take your dragline down in order to do the work. From time to time, we'll increase our inventory, and then it'll get consumed while we're doing an outage. You will see some of those fluctuations. As far as customer receivables or payables, it's really just kind of a steady cadence that doesn't fluctuate that much over time.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. And.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

One addition that I'd make on that is that we do have a deposit. We have a line on our balance sheet deposit with vendors. You can see that it's $14.5 million at the end of March, and we expect that to turn this year. That will be a pickup this year, but we've been increasing that. It went up $5 million in the quarter, so that kind of offsets some of the improvements. We also talked about we had a change in the timing of our insurance renewals, and we prepay that and then expense it throughout the year. We moved that out of Q1, so that's part of what was driving some of the change in the working capital in the quarter.

[Operator]

Again, if you have any questions, please press star one on your touch-tone phone.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

No, he's here.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Looks like we lost Doug somehow.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

He raised his hand.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Sorry?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

He raised his hand again.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Oh, okay.

[Operator]

We have Doug on the line again.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Sorry. I guess also on the balance sheet, you have that asset sale for sale line. What's in that?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

It consists of some draglines and a building in North Dakota that we got as part of the termination settlement with Great River Energy.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

You expect to sell those this year?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

They're all being actively marketed.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

I see. Okay. I guess last question would just be on the—sorry, two more. On the remediation, my sense is kind of lumpy as you get credits and realize proceeds on those. Is that right? Is that not a steady quarter-to-quarter business?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

You're talking about mitigation?

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

Mitigation Resources, yeah. It's lumpy.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

It's sort of lumpy by design, right? You get a—the life cycle of a mitigation bank is we identify an area where we want to be. We ultimately identify a watershed, and these are going to be in high-growth areas, high-growth states, high-growth areas in those states. We acquire a piece of property. We work with the Army Corps of Engineers to develop the plan for restoring the streams and wetlands to a healthy state. We and they, the Army Corps of Engineers, agree on something that's called a mitigation banking instrument. It specifies the work that we need to do, and it provides the timeline with which credits will be made available for sale. That can be over a 10-year timeline. It might be that you get some credits available right away because you're putting a conservation easement on the property.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

You may then take two years—I'm making up the two years—but it might be two years to get the next lump of credits that are available once we've done some physical work on the streams or wetlands. As we demonstrate the health of the stream or we get grass and trees and natural plants established, you might get more credits over time. The life of the credit of the mitigation bank will have periodic credit releases that will turn into credit sales, and we'll make money on those. This is a business that is still pretty young in its life. As we get more and more mitigation banks, just the law of averages and large numbers will start to smooth this out because you're not just dealing with a handful of mitigation banks that have credits. You've got lots of mitigation banks with credits.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

We're also supplementing that income with smaller, shorter-term reclamation and restoration projects that are largely done on behalf of state governments, local municipalities, including the Abandoned Mine Land work. All those projects tend to be, on average, less than a year, and they're sort of a steady source of recurring income. Same deal. As we get more and more of that flowing through this business, it'll start to smooth out the overall results. Certainly, for a while, we're going to continue to see pretty lumpy earnings in that piece of the business. I don't want you to think that that doesn't make it a great business. This is a great business. Really like the business model, really like the opportunity for returns that it provides with us. It's really just a story of scaling the business, and that's why we're excited.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

In the last two quarters, we've reported profitability, and we expect them to be profitable for the year.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Is there a way to track your expansion in that business in terms of the number, the acreage, or some other metric?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Liz and I are looking at each other, trying to figure out what the metric would be. I mean, it's number of mitigation banks.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

Even then, the credits within each bank differ.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Yeah. The pricing differs in.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

Is it a stream credit? Is it a wetland credit? Yeah, that's.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

We don't have a good answer for that right now, other than I can assure you that the business is growing pretty rapidly, and we're pretty excited about the trajectory that we're on. We haven't figured out a good metric to describe that. Look, it'd be easy to say number of mitigation banks, but some of these mitigation banks are very small, and some of them are very large.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Right.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

It could be acreage, but that varies tremendously. If you've got—let's just say you've got 100 acres in a place that has competitive banks that can be—and it's an area of moderate growth—that can be very different than a mitigation bank with not a lot of competition in an area with extremely rapid growth. We run these banks over a number of years, and we try to get in when land has not yet become astronomically expensive. What we tend to see is, in the early days, we can buy the land, and we can do the work, and then you just see the area explode. Think about the highest growth areas in the country. The value of those credits can go up pretty substantially. Even if it's a small bank, it can suddenly turn into a really valuable asset.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Do you actually own the land on those areas?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

In some instances, we own the land. In other instances, we will partner with a landowner. We have a contractual relationship that we will enter into with them whereby they provide the land, and we do the work. We manage the conservation easement, and then there is a compensation mechanism that rewards the landowner for the landowner's participation in the mitigation bank. There are several models for how we might reward them.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Interesting. Okay. I guess last question would just be on the—you mentioned in the release, it sounds like you're making some progress on the solar initiatives. Any more color you might have on that?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

That's our ReGen Resources business. We're looking at solar. We're looking at solar. Solar needs backup, as they just learned in Spain. We're looking at solar on its own. We're looking at solar with various types of backup for solar. That continues to develop. There's a little bit of uncertainty in that business because there's some uncertainty about how tax credits are going to really play out in the future. The projects that we're working on, we still feel pretty good about as they move forward. The other piece of this, as you can read in the Wall Street Journal almost every day, is there's a lot of folks doing data, whether it's regular data or AI or other supporting functions, and they're looking for behind-the-meter solutions.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

That's another opportunity where you can develop a package of generation, could be solar, probably solar with backup, put it behind the meter. You don't have to deal with interconnect into the transmission grid and things like that. There is a lot of opportunity here. We're in this business because we've got a lot of land close to generation assets and transmission, if that's the route we choose to go. We're also in it because we've operated adjacent to the energy space for a long time, and we feel like we can leverage and really capitalize on that knowledge and skills in order to add another piece of our business.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Which part of your land are you likely to do that work on?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

You said which part of the land?

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Yeah. I mean, is it the Pennsylvania region or?

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

I mean, it's largely on reclaimed mine land. So think about where we have mines, right? And as we mine, we were always reclaiming behind our mining. And so we've got reclaimed mine land that actually is, in many instances, a pretty darn good place to put projects like this.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

We noted in our release in Mississippi and Texas.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Sorry. Say again?

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

We noted in the release in Mississippi and Texas.

[Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment]

Okay. Okay. Got it. All right. As always, appreciate the time, and talk to you next quarter.

[J.C. Butler, President and CEO at NACCO Industries]

Yeah. Thank you, Doug. Appreciate the call.

[Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller at NACCO Industries]

Thanks, Doug.

[Operator]

If there are no further questions, please continue.

[Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations at NACCO Industries]

Okay. With that, we'll conclude our Q&A session. Before we conclude, I'd like to provide a few reminders. A replay of our call will be available later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on the Investor Relations website when it becomes available. If you have any questions, please reach out to me. My phone number is in the release. Other than that, I hope you all enjoy the rest of your day, and I'll turn it back to Vincent to conclude the call.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Participants

Executives

• Elizabeth Loveman, SVP and Controller
• Christina Kmetko, Head of Investor Relations
• J.C. Butler, President and CEO

Analysts

• Doug Weiss, Investment Advisor at DSW Investment