DuPont de Nemours Q1 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
May 2, 2023

Key Takeaways

  • Organic Q1 revenue declined 3% YoY with double-digit drops in electronics, but adjusted EPS rose 2% and pricing actions helped offset inflation.
  • DuPont is taking cost and cash flow optimization measures amid short-cycle end-market pressures while anticipating mid-year electronics demand recovery.
  • DuPont agreed to acquire Spectrum for $1.72 billion, expanding its healthcare portfolio to ~10% of sales with a 13.2× EBITDA multiple post-synergies.
  • The company deployed M&M sale proceeds through share buybacks and debt reduction and expects net leverage around 2× by year-end.
  • FY 2023 guidance now projects $12.3–12.5 billion in sales, $3.0–3.1 billion in EBITDA, and $3.55–$3.70 in adjusted EPS.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
DuPont de Nemours Q1 2023
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the DuPont first quarter 2023 earnings call. I would now like to turn the call over to Chris Mecray, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

Good morning, thank you for joining us for DuPont's first quarter 2023 financial results conference call. Joining me today are Ed Breen, Chief Executive Officer, and Lori Koch, Chief Financial Officer. We've prepared slides to supplement our remarks, which are posted on DuPont's website under the Investor Relations tab and through the webcast link. Please read the forward-looking statement disclaimer contained in the slides. During this call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding our expectations or predictions about the future. Because these statements are based on current assumptions and factors that involve risks and uncertainties, our actual performance and results may differ materially from our forward-looking statements. Our Form 10-K, as updated by our current and periodic reports, includes detailed discussion of principal risks and uncertainties which may cause such differences. Unless otherwise specified, all historical financial measures presented today exclude significant items.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

We will also refer to other non-GAAP measures. A reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure is included in our press release and presentation materials and have been posted to DuPont's Investor Relations website. I'll now turn the call over to Ed.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Good morning, and thank you for joining our first quarter 2023 financial review. This morning, we announced quarterly results with operating EBITDA in line and revenue and adjusted EPS slightly better than our previously communicated guidance. This performance reflects our team's continued strong execution while facing short-term volume pressure in select consumer-driven short-cycle end markets, including electronics and construction. First quarter organic revenue declined 3% versus the year-ago period, despite double-digit declines from our Electronics lines of business of Interconnect Solutions and Semiconductor Technologies. Mitigating the weakness in electronics and construction markets was ongoing broad demand strength in areas including water, automotive, aerospace, and healthcare, along with the carryover benefit of pricing actions taken last year to offset inflationary pressure. Adjusted EPS was up 2% as we continue to realize benefits from our ongoing capital allocation strategy.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

As expected, operating EBITDA declined versus the year ago period, driven by lower volumes. Given the near term slowdown in short cycle end markets, we continue to be proactive in taking actions within our control to minimize volume pressure while also focusing on optimizing cash flow generation. We expect to continue to show the resiliency of the new DuPont portfolio and expect that our financial results will generate returns commensurate with top-tier multi-industrial assets. In addition to our commitment to generating value through delivery of consistent operating performance, we also continue to focus on accretive and value-added capital deployment. This morning, we announced a definitive agreement to acquire Spectrum, a leading manufacturer of critical components and devices for medical end markets, for $1.75 billion or $1.72 billion after certain tax attributes.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

This deal fits with our strategy to focus on the industrial technologies growth pillar, expanding our offerings into the fast-growing healthcare market. Turning to slide four, we have had our eye on Spectrum, which is a current DuPont customer, for a long time. Our team is extremely excited for this opportunity. Spectrum is a recognized leader in advanced manufacturing of specialty medical devices and components, serving 22 of the top 26 medical device OEMs with relationships that date back decades and a strategic focus on fast-growing therapeutic devices and components. Their business is predominantly North American focused and has demonstrated consistent growth over many years. We expect them to generate revenues of about $500 million in 2023. As you can see on slide five, DuPont's existing healthcare portfolio is quite strong today.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

As a reminder, our current healthcare portfolio is comprised of Liveo medical device and biopharma consumables business, which is a key part of the Industrial Solutions line of business, and our Tyvek Healthcare Packaging business reported through Safety Solutions. Together, these businesses represent $800 million of total revenue and grow at rates exceeding the company average and well above GDP at solid rates of profitability. The Spectrum business fits nicely with our existing Liveo franchise and will complement our established position in biopharma consumables, bringing world-class manufacturing capabilities and deep OEM customer relationships. On slide six, you can see the addition of Spectrum to our portfolio is impactful and the combined presence in healthcare will now represent approximately 10% of DuPont's total sales. The transaction adds higher growth while further reducing cyclicality in the portfolio.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Also worth noting, the transaction significantly increases the total addressable market we serve within healthcare devices. These businesses are expected to grow at high single digit rates over time and even faster in 2023 due to specific business wins in place. This transaction has compelling strategic rationale, as you can see on slide seven. The Spectrum business expands DuPont's growth strategy of customer-centered innovation and strengthen our existing stable position in fast-growing healthcare end markets. We are excited by the complementary fit and specifically our ability to leverage the strengths from each side to generate incremental growth opportunities on top of already growing core markets. As an example of this, on the biopharma side, DuPont Liveo has extensive direct relationships with leading OEMs in the biopharma space and has a pro-proven design and build co-development model.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

The added advanced manufacturing capabilities enabled by Spectrum will expand its product and capability set to meet stringent customer specifications, essentially adding a new pipeline for the Spectrum side by adding new customer relationships. On the medical device side, as an example, Spectrum has extensive direct relationships with leading OEMs, including with 22 of the top 26 players. Adding Liveo's silicon offerings and DuPont's material science technology will enhance Spectrum's depth of cooperation with customers and expand its product offerings. Spectrum is expected to accelerate top-line growth for Industrial Solutions and DuPont as a whole. Regarding deal terms, the net purchase price of $1.72 billion after certain tax adjustments represents a 15.6x EBITDA multiple based on 2023 estimates, or 13.2x after moderate expected cost synergies of $20 million.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

In line with our return hurdles for capital deployment, the acquisition is expected to deliver high single-digit ROIC by year five, excluding revenue synergies that we described. We believe the combined growth opportunities I just mentioned can add incremental value to the business combination. We expect this transaction will close by the end of the third quarter this year. We do not anticipate significant regulatory hurdles. We plan to finance the transaction with cash on hand. Given a lot of moving parts on our capital allocation over the last six months, let's briefly review our status on slide eight. From closing of the M&M sale in November through today, we have deployment actions and plans in place to account for the full $11 billion of gross cash received from the sale through a disciplined capital allocation process.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

In the fourth quarter of last year, we announced a $5 billion share repurchase authorization and took actions to deleverage our balance sheet by paying down $2.5 billion in senior notes and reducing commercial paper from $1.3 billion to 0 at year-end and remaining undrawn through the first quarter. Regarding share repurchases, we still expect to complete the $3.25 billion accelerated share repurchase program launched last November in the third quarter of this year and remain committed to completing the remaining $2 billion of authorization as an ASR shortly thereafter. Today's announcement to acquire Spectrum with cash on hand essentially completes the deployment of any remaining excess cash from the M&M transaction.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

In terms of additional cash sources, I will note that we are progressing with our plans to sell the Delrin business and continue to expect the planned transaction to close by year-end 2023. Our current capitalization remains very sound, with no significant debt maturities until November 2025. Looking through all currently communicated deployment actions inclusive of the Delrin sale, we expect net leverage to finish the year around 2x. We are comfortable with that leverage point, which is more in line with our multi-industrial peers, and we expect to remain at that level as an equilibrium target going forward. With that, let me turn it over to Lori to review our financial performance and outlook.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Thanks, Ed, and good morning. Our first quarter financial results reflect our team's ongoing strong focus on execution and operational excellence as we began 2023. In a pressured volume environment within consumer electronics and construction, we are focused on the operational levers within our control to drive solid operating EBITDA and minimize margin impact despite volume decrements in some of our most profitable lines of business. Turning to our financial highlights on slide five. First quarter net sales of $3 billion decreased 8% as reported, and 3% on an organic basis versus the year ago period. Currency resulted in a 3% headwind from dollar strength against key currencies, most notably the Yen, Won, and Euro. We also saw a 2% headwind related to portfolio changes.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Breaking down the 3% organic sales decline, 4% pricing gains were more than offset by a 7% volume decline. Pricing reflects the carryover impact of actions taken during 2022 to offset broad-based inflation related to raw materials, logistics, and energy. Volume decline reflects weakness in consumer electronics resulting from decreased consumer spending, channel inventory destocking, and softness in construction. Lower volume in these consumer-driven short cycle end markets was partially mitigated by ongoing strength in water, automotive, aerospace, and healthcare markets. Taken in combination, volume within electronics and construction end markets during the quarter was down high teens in the aggregate versus the year-ago period, while our remaining businesses were up low single digits.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

From a regional perspective, Europe and North America sales in the quarter were up 5% and 1% respectively on an organic basis, while Asia Pacific was down 10% versus the year ago period. China sales were down nearly 20%, driven principally by the electronics weakness. First quarter operating EBITDA of $714 million decreased 13% versus the year ago period, driven by lower volumes and the impact of reduced production rates in electronics as we scale back production to better align with demand. Currency was also a headwind. Operating EBITDA margin during the quarter of 23.7% was down 130 basis points, driven by volume pressure and inclusive of mixed headwinds related to lower volumes within the high-margin semi business. Decremental margin for the quarter was 41%.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Given the high teens volume declines in our electronics portfolio, our overall decrementals were disproportionately impacted, as these businesses are some of the most profitable within the DuPont portfolio. Adjusted EPS in the quarter of $0.84 per share increased 2% versus last year, which I will detail shortly. Looking at cash performance, cash flow from operations during the quarter of $343 million, less cash paid for CapEx of $241 million, resulted in adjusted free cash flow of $102 million. Included within free cash flow are transaction cost headwinds of about $75 million related to both cash payments associated with the M&M deal closing and ongoing Delrin divestiture costs. Turning to slide 10, adjusted EPS for the quarter of $0.84 per share increased 2% compared to $0.82 in the year-ago period.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Headwinds related to overall volume declines were more than offset by the below-the-line benefits, including an $0.11 benefit related to lower net interest expense and a $0.09 benefit due to share repurchases, including the upfront benefit of our ongoing ASR program initiated last November. Our tax rate for the quarter was 23.4%, up from 21.8% in the year ago period, resulting in a $0.02 headwind to adjusted EPS, driven primarily by geographic mix of earnings. Turning to segment results, beginning with E&I on slide 11. E&I first quarter net sales of $1.3 billion decreased 16% as organic sales declined 13%, along with currency headwinds of 2% and unfavorable portfolio impact of 1%. The organic sales declines reflect a 15% decrease in volume, partially offset by a 2% increase in price.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

The organic sales decrease for E&I was driven by Interconnect Solutions, which was down 21%, and Semiconductor Technologies, which was down mid-teens. The decline in interconnect was driven by weak smartphone, PC and tablet demand, along with channel inventory destocking. Our PCB customers in China operated in the first quarter with utilization rates in the mid-forties, which is an expected cycle low. The decline in SemiTech resulted from reduced semiconductor fab utilization rates due to weakened market demand, as well as downstream destocking of finished chip inventories. Semi chip fab utilization rates in the first quarter averaged around 80%, which we expect to dip somewhat in the second quarter as these customers work down inventories. We expect recovery in fab rates to begin during the third quarter.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Sales for Industrial Solutions were up low single digits on an organic basis as pricing and ongoing strength in Vespel aerospace products and in healthcare for applications such as biopharma consumables were partially offset by lower demand in largely consumer-driven areas such as advanced printing and lighting applications. Operating EBITDA for E&I of $362 million was down versus the year ago period, primarily due to the drop through impact of volume declines, which correspond to the lower customer utilization rates just referenced and our lower operating rates as also mentioned. Turning to slide 12. W&P first quarter net sales of $1.45 billion increased 1% as organic sales growth of 4% was mostly offset by a 3% currency headwind.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Organic growth reflects a 6% increase in price resulting from the carryover impact of pricing actions taken last year, partially offset by a 2% decrease in segment volume. Organic sales growth was led by Water Solutions, which was up low double digits on strong pricing and continued demand growth for water filtration, led by reverse osmosis product lines. Safety Solutions sales were up mid-single digits on an organic basis on pricing and volume gains. Volume growth was driven by Kevlar and Nomex demand in aerospace and automotive markets, especially for EVs, coupled with Tyvek strength in healthcare. Shelter Solutions was down mid-single digits on an organic basis on greater than 10% volume declines due to softness in construction markets, partially offset by pricing.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Operating EBITDA for W&P of $344 million increased 1% as pricing and disciplined cost control were largely offset by inflationary cost pressure, primarily related to higher raw material and energy costs, currency headwinds and lower volume. Before I turn it back to Ed, I'll close with a few comments on our financial outlook and guidance for second quarter and full year 2023 on slide 13. As we look at the current demand environment, we continue to expect ongoing strength throughout the year in areas such as water, automotive, aerospace, and healthcare. Within electronics markets, we continue to see weakness in channel inventory destocking in the near term.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Based on recent customer feedback, echoed by their public commentary and third-party market forecasts, we expect customer utilization rates to bottom relatively near term and to improve during the third quarter, which is about a quarter later than previously expected. To highlight these assumptions, we've included current market forecasts for both semiconductor and smartphone markets on slide 14. For semiconductors, third-party research now suggests MSI will be down 13% for the full year 2023 compared to estimates last quarter indicating down mid-single digits, with fab utilization expected to ramp back up above 80% beginning in the fourth quarter. For both of these end markets, you can see the expected improvement beginning during the third quarter, which reflects a later and somewhat more gradual pace than the assumptions last quarter.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Due to the delay in the near-term recovery, we are adjusting the high end of our full year guidance ranges for net sales, operating EBITDA, and adjusted EPS. We now expect full year net sales to be between $12.3 billion and $12.5 billion, operating EBITDA to be between $3 billion and $3.1 billion, and adjusted EPS to be between $3.55 and $3.70 per share. For the second quarter 2023, we expect similar results for the first quarter as overall market conditions are anticipated to be generally consistent. On a longer-term view, historical data suggests downturns in these markets are short, lasting about three to four quarters, which gives us confidence in the longer-term growth for electronics as we get through this year. With that, I'll turn it back to Ed.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thanks, Lori. Before we take your questions, I'd like to highlight that we published our annual sustainability report yesterday, highlighting the ongoing work of our employees across the globe to meet our commitments across all aspects of ESG. As a reminder, our sustainability strategy is grounded in three pillars: innovation, protecting people on the planet, and empowering employees and customers. I continue to be proud of the progress we are making on our 2030 goals and remain impressed at the speed in which we are advancing. On climate change, we exceeded our 2030 Acting on Climate goal to reduce Scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gas emissions by 30% well ahead of schedule. We have set a new goal, which has been validated by SBTi, to reach a 50% reduction in emissions by 2030. Regarding innovation, 80% of our top innovation programs deliver sustainability value for customers.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Within water, we've helped to enable seawater to be used as a source of potable drinking water with our reverse osmosis technology. We're also helping reduce carbon emissions through building materials innovation and protection. Auto markets, we're making electric vehicle batteries safer with our materials for thermal management. Within electronics, we've directly enabled increased performance requirements in semiconductor manufacturing. In our community, we engaged over 500 community projects with over 300 nonprofit partners across 30 countries focused on STEM education. From a DE&I standpoint, many aspects of our inclusive culture continue to be recognized. 2022 marked our second year on Forbes magazine's World's Top Female-Friendly Companies list as one example. There are many great examples and stories in the report of how our teams are delivering on our purpose and driving sustainability. Overall, our teams have done a tremendous job.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

With that, we are pleased to take your questions, and let me turn it back to the operator to open the Q&A.

Operator

The floor is now open for your questions. To ask a question at this time, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If at any point you'd like to withdraw from the queue, please press star one again. You'll be provided the opportunity to ask one question and one further follow-up question. We'll now take a moment to compile our roster. Our first question comes from Steve Tusa from JPMorgan. Please proceed.

Steve Tusa
Steve Tusa
Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan

Hey, guys. Good morning.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Morning, Steve.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Morning.

Steve Tusa
Steve Tusa
Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan

Could you just help level set us on, you know, where you stand as far as the amount you have left to buy back for the rest of the year, and the pace on that? Then, when, you know, Delrin closes, just remind us of the proceeds you're expecting there and, you know, what you'd expect to do with that cash.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. I'll take the share repurchase. We still have $2 billion left to complete, which we will do on the back of the completion of the current ASR, which is expected sometime in the August-September timeframe. We'll get started on the second program and be able to take 80% of the shares out upfront, and then it usually will take us about six months to complete the full $2 billion authorization. Turn it to Ed for the Delrin comment.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah. Delrin, we're expecting to close by the end of the year. We've been doing all the carve-out work, so we're very far along on accomplishing all that. You know, I'm not gonna talk about, you know, what we sell it for, but, you know, the EBIT is about $180 million on the business, so you kind of figure out the zip code on that as we move forward. That cash should be somewhere kinda end of year, beginning of next year.

Steve Tusa
Steve Tusa
Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan

Got it. Just lastly on price cost, what's your outlook for pricing for the non-electronics businesses in the second half? Any update on your on the spread for the year, if there's any positive benefit there? I think it was $100 million or something in prior guide.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

We have not changed that, Steve. You know, maybe we're being conservative. Obviously, as we've said before, we've worked very hard with our teams on how we're gonna handle this as we move forward. The timing is a little we're seeing a little bit of it, by the way, because of the logistics and shipping rates being down. But the big bulk of it will be on the raws. It'll be more on the W&P side. Remember, it'll by the time we renegotiate contracts and then, you know, you've got, like, a four-month window to get it through our supply chain into a finished good that's sold, you know, so you kind of figure out timing of it. But we have not changed the assumption, which is very little of the $800 million that we raised pricing.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

You know, we'll just update everybody as we get to next quarter on that, and we'll have a clearer picture of what that potentially is.

Steve Tusa
Steve Tusa
Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan

Great.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

On the pricing side, we saw 4% total in Q1. It was 6% in W&P. We see that decelerating as we lap the 2022 benefits. In the second quarter, we expect an overall about 1% price lift. Really 2% in W&P and flat EPS.

Steve Tusa
Steve Tusa
Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan

Great. Thanks a lot.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thanks, Steve.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Jeff Sprague from Vertical Research Partners. Please proceed.

Jeff Sprague
Founder and Managing Partner at Vertical Research Partners

Thank you. Good morning, everyone.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Morning, Jeff.

Jeff Sprague
Founder and Managing Partner at Vertical Research Partners

Morning. Hey, Ed, maybe a little color on how active you are on the buy side of M&A. You know, what the pipeline looks like. I don't think you responded to the potential use of Delrin proceeds, you know, when that happens, should we expect, you know, kind of more M&A like this or some combination of even additional repo plus M&A?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah, Jeff, our leaning right now is nothing else on the radar screen over the next year on the M&A side. We wanna get the Spectrum deal done, focus on that. By the way, the Laird acquisition we did the other year is going extremely well. I think there's nothing that we're excited about that we see out there. This one, by the way, we've had our eyes on for quite a period of time. As I think we said in our comments, they're actually a customer of ours. This is really where we've been focused for the last kind of year and a half with our thinking. If I had to say right now with any extra proceeds, I think we would lean towards additional share repurchase.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Remember, to Lori's comments, it's still gonna be about over the next year that we're still taking shares out of the market, you know, the existing ASRs, we said. Then as soon as we finish this one, we'll launch the new ASR for $2 billion, and that'll take us till about the end of the first quarter of 2024. Any excess cash we'll deal with at that point in time. I, it depends on the environment, obviously. If the environment were like it is now, where the multiple is for the company, like my gut is we lean towards share repurchase.

Jeff Sprague
Founder and Managing Partner at Vertical Research Partners

Could you, thanks for that. Could you speak to, I guess for lack of a better term, kind of contingency planning, as, you know, on the electronic stuff, as you said, I think you tried to triangulate between your own intel and third parties and what your customers are telling you? It, it does look and feel like some of these customers are chasing a ball down the hill here on some of this stuff. You know, there's things you can't control, but the question is, and things you can control, kind of cost actions that you might be taking or considering?

Jeff Sprague
Founder and Managing Partner at Vertical Research Partners

I wonder if also as part of that answer, you could kind of speak to, you know, maybe the opportunity to unlock some additional cash from working capital, as, you know, as we work through this kind of cycling down in the electronics markets.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah. By the way, just as an overall comment, though, Jeff, it's interesting. The semi, you know, you go back and study all the other downturn. Remember, semi is a great industry, by the way. It's gonna go up the next couple decades, but you always do hit these pockets of some destock and some softness. This actually for us, when you look at our sales rates, semi started coming down at the beginning of the fourth quarter. We're two full quarters into the downturn. Now, we think the quarter we're in now is the bottom, just slightly down more from the first quarter. When you look at them, they're usually three to maximum four quarters of a destock. Remember, a lot of this is destock on top of some consumer softness, obviously.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

We're pretty deep into it would appear. Having said that, to your direct question, though, we've got a couple other layers of actions we would take on the cost side, to protect ourselves. Back to the conversation we just had with Steve Tusa, obviously, we're gonna work this price cost thing real hard and, you know, haven't baked a ton in at this point in time. That, that would be where the two levers would be.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

I think on the, on the inventory piece too, we did take action in the first quarter that was a headwind to EPS margins, of about $40 million-$45 million to be able to better align inventory, and production rates. We saw a headwind there. We'll continue to see that headwind in the second quarter as well as we try to get inventory more in line with where the demand signal is. To Ed's point, to just reiterate, on the discretionary side, we are doing a fair amount of actions.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

You can see on the face of our P&L that we took about 10% out of our total SG&A. That was really a function of the restructuring that we did in the tail end of 2022, as well as really tensioning backfills and travel and expense. We'll continue in that mode as we go into 2Q, as we said in 2Q as well.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Great. Thank you.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thanks, Joe.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Scott Davis from Melius Research. Please proceed.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Thank you, operator. Good morning, Ed, Lori, and Chris.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Good morning, Scott.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Morning.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Can you guys talk, I know it's not giant, but it can move the needle if you do it right, on Spectrum. What can you make it better? You commented just, you know, that it's more North American-based. Is there an opportunity to take it globally? Is there anything that you can do? Synergies look fairly modest, and maybe you're just being conservative, but is there anything you can do with that asset to perhaps drive those returns up a little higher than the deal model?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Well, Scott, we didn't take into account any revenue synergies, let me just talk the cost piece a second. We only put in $20 million of cost synergies, which by the way, is only 3%-4% of revenue, which is obviously low compared to, you know what deals normally are on the synergy side. I think our net 13.2x is pretty conservative based on just that $20 million. The real opportunity here is gonna be on the growth side. Remember, our relationships at DuPont are mainly, and by the way, they're very deep relationships, are with the biopharma OEMs. Spectrum are more with the medical device OEMs, but a lot of our technology actually goes through companies like Spectrum into that industry.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

When we look at the ability for DuPont to move its technologies and material science, into the medical device market with Spectrum, and by the way, the opposite of that, Spectrum moving into the biopharma space, and when we look at the joint opportunities we could have together, you know, we could drive some nice incremental growth there. By the way, we've been talking to them and looking at this opportunity, that I'm talking to for a very long time. I think that's the big benefit. Can we get some more cost synergies? Probably can, but we haven't counted on it yet. It'll be the growth. This business has been growing, you can see in our charts, kind of right around 10% over the last four years. It's gonna actually grow faster this year.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

They've got a couple big new wins from OEM customers. We can broaden it out a little bit more globally because of our footprint on the Liveo side, but remember, a lot of the medical device players are U.S.-based companies that sell globally.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Yeah. That's helpful.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

The other opportunity, Scott, the other big one we have is we have a path to get the margins of Spectrum up about 300 basis points. They very recently, I say in the last year, put in a fair amount of new production capacity that's getting filled up because just the growth rate they've been on, you think about four years in a row of 10%. They have a fair amount that they're just completing on the factory expansion side, and as we fill up those assets and get them utilized, we'll drive the margins up another 300 basis points. That to me would even be a bigger lever than the cost one. It'd be more that margin expansion and then the revenue opportunity.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Okay. Interesting. Just as a quick follow-up, the price comments that you just made, Lori, the sequential kind of dropdown, is that mathematically, is that more just that we're getting to the tougher comps on when you jacked prices up a year ago?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Is there. Okay. There's no sequential weakness.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah, there's no sequential price declines of any magnitude baked in. It's more just lapping. Last year, the bulk of the.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

Okay.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Was in, like, February, March timeframe, so.

Scott Davis
Scott Davis
Chairman and CEO at Melius Research

That's what I figured. Okay. Great. Best of luck. Thanks. Appreciate it.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thanks, Scott.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Christopher Parkinson from Mizuho. Please proceed.

Christopher Parkinson
Christopher Parkinson
Managing Director of Senior Equity Analyst at Mizuho

Great. Thank you so much. Your performance in W&P, specifically on the water and the Safety Solutions side has been pretty solid. You know, depending on obviously where the macro takes us, which is naturally out of your control, can you speak to the potential resiliency of those two businesses in terms of your expectations for the second half embedded in guidance? Thank you.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

We still expect continued strength in water, we had a nice organic growth in the first quarter on both a price and volume basis, we expect that to continue as we head into the rest of the year. There's a lot of secular trends favoring our water portfolio right now. On the safety side, we're seeing strength as well in most areas, especially what we highlighted with respect to the Spectrum acquisition on our healthcare portfolio. We've got about a $500 million medical packaging business in Tyvek that's performing very nicely. We see those secular trends continuing throughout the rest of 2023. One other area too that we can highlight of growth within the safety portfolio is the EV piece.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

There's a nice application for Nomex paper within the e-motor, that we're seeing nice growth in the first quarter, and we'll look for that to continue as well.

Christopher Parkinson
Christopher Parkinson
Managing Director of Senior Equity Analyst at Mizuho

It's very helpful. Just given the results, on the margin front, Lori, for the first, you know, for the first quarter, can you just give us a real quick update on your expectation for the intermediate to long-term outlook to, you know, 27%, 28%? Is that still, you know, roughly in line with your expectations in terms of your progression back to those levels? Thank you.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. I mean, that's still our expectation, with, you know, three big tailwinds between now and then. One is obviously the volume recovery in EPS and getting those margins back into the low 30s. We dipped in Q1. That was really a reflection of the volume and the actions we took to align production with demand. That $40 million-$45 million created the headwind in the first quarter. That, you know, is not permanent. That will resolve itself. Another tailwind is the price cost piece. As we can see, potential future benefit there, that will be margin accretive for us. Those are the two biggest levers. Obviously the final piece is the mix component.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

As you get EPS back on its growth trajectory, obviously it's the highest margin piece of our portfolio, so there's a favorable mix lift there as that market starts to recover.

Operator

Helpful as always. Thank you so much.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Mike Leithead from Barclays. Please proceed.

Mike Leithead
Mike Leithead
Director of Equity Research at Barclays

Great. Thanks. Good morning, guys.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Morning.

Mike Leithead
Mike Leithead
Director of Equity Research at Barclays

First question, just on Spectrum. Apologies if I missed this, but in the materials. Is it possible to provide the 2022 revenue and EBITDA for the business?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. 2022 revenue was about $450 million, and EBITDA was about $95 million.

Mike Leithead
Mike Leithead
Director of Equity Research at Barclays

Great. Thank you. Secondly, can you just talk about the lower leverage target now about kind of 2.0 instead of 2.75? Is this just more conservativism in the current rate environment, or just kind of help frame the pivot there?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah. It's, it's exactly what you said. It's more, you know, higher interest rate environment we're in, and I think it's, you know, just prudent to set there. By the way, not the number one reason, but another reason is the premier multi-industrial companies are all, if you look at it, kinda centered around 2x leverage. You know, we were kinda targeted up at that 2.75. We think that this environment, interest rate environment, it's just a prudent place to be. You know, that's where we'll end the year, about there. Maybe actually a little slightly below 2x, depending on the Delrin proceeds that we get.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

You know, like we always have, you know, we preserve our strategic flexibility there, but that's kind of where we'd like to target ourselves, you know, moving forward. The interest rate environment is the key reason.

Mike Leithead
Mike Leithead
Director of Equity Research at Barclays

Great. Thank you.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yep. Thanks, Mike.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Aleksey Yefremov from KeyBanc. Please proceed.

Aleksey Yefremov
Aleksey Yefremov
Senior Chemicals Equity Research Analyst at KeyBanc

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Ed, I wanted to follow up on your 300 basis point margin expansion opportunity for Spectrum. To clarify, is this opportunity in your high single-digit ROIC number or it could push the number higher?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

No, it's in there. We have a pay up. I mean, just the growth rates they're on right now, if you look at it, they're gonna be. I won't get into specific numbers, but they'll be north of 10% growth this year. Just adding that leverage into the system really moves the needle for us, especially when they built new capacity in place and, you know, you're sitting there with it, you're hiring people on, you know, you're just kinda going through that digestion period as you're ramping up. As we said, their revenues this year, Lori just mentioned 2022, the revenues this year will be, like, $500 million. You know, nice growth trajectory, and you just play those numbers through the system, that's where you get to.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. Even if you back into the numbers that I had mentioned for 2022, that's about a 21% EBITDA margin. 2023 is expected to be 22%, already 100 basis points of improvement. They had a really nice first quarter ahead of their management plan, actually. They're on a very nice trajectory to achieve that average, $110 million of EBITDA in 2023.

Aleksey Yefremov
Aleksey Yefremov
Senior Chemicals Equity Research Analyst at KeyBanc

Thanks. As a follow-up, in semis and interconnect, clearly, it's a challenging market. Can you discuss your outgrowth? Are you continuing to gain content in these markets this year?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

We would expect to see that, and we actually are seeing some share gains in the litho and the packaging space still underneath the numbers that we're reporting. What is clouding our performance versus the MSI is the destock piece. The destock is pretty significant that's going on in the first half. That would be another headwind on top of the MSI numbers that we had presented in the deck. That's what's clouding the story a little bit, but we still expect that content, and exposure to advanced nodes to be able to give us that performance in total.

Aleksey Yefremov
Aleksey Yefremov
Senior Chemicals Equity Research Analyst at KeyBanc

Thanks a lot.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Vincent Andrews
Vincent Andrews
Managing Director of Equity Reseach Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. You know, Ed, point taken on the historical electronic cycle, the three to four quarter downturn. Just curious if there's any sensitivity to that. What I mean by that is, you know, you're looking for the recovery in the third quarter. If for some reason it doesn't come in the third quarter, you know, can it still come in the fourth quarter, or is there some seasonal reason why it might get kicked into the first quarter if that were to play out?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

No, there's no seasonal reason, Vincent. Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what month it is in there. You know, we've modeled all the other downturns, and remember, this downturn is pretty significant now. The 13% down is correct. You know, you're hitting it pretty quick on the destocking. By the way, there's one other factor here that kinda pushed it out a little. One of the very large semiconductor players kept running hard on their fab utilization through the first quarter, and that's public knowledge. I'm not gonna mention the name, but, you know, one of the big players. You know, that is creating also the fact that they gotta, you know, take their utilization down pretty rapidly here. I think they just talked publicly about that a week or so ago.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

That was one of the other reasons that gets kind of pushed it out a little and, you know, they got to go through a destock also.

Vincent Andrews
Vincent Andrews
Managing Director of Equity Reseach Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Okay, great. Can I just ask on Spectrum, I don't know if you mentioned this before, I didn't see it, but what polymers or materials, you know, are critical to their products? And, you know, are there any particular folks that they tend to compete against?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. They compete against TE, Nordson, and Integer are some of their larger competitors. As far as on the input side, they use their specialty polymers and design expertise to manufacture very high complexity materials for the large med device players. That's, that's, as Ed had mentioned earlier, where we see a really nice sweet spot of being able to leverage the two portfolios. They've got really nice positions with the medical device guys, and we've got really nice positions with the biopharma guys. Being able to bring our two portfolios, leverage our expertise in material science, across the broader portfolio is where we see the opportunity for us ahead.

Vincent Andrews
Vincent Andrews
Managing Director of Equity Reseach Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Thanks very much.

Operator

Next question comes from the line of Josh Spector from UBS. Please proceed.

Josh Spector
Josh Spector
Executive Director of Chemicals Equity Research at UBS

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Just when I look at your EPS guidance for 2Q, I mean, you're basically flat to slightly up sequentially on the sales line. I mean, pretty clear how you're guiding towards semis and utilization rates come down. Some interconnects is kind of a push as well.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Correct.

Josh Spector
Josh Spector
Executive Director of Chemicals Equity Research at UBS

Is industrials doing better sequentially, and is there anything you'd note there that's maybe different than what you expected?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

You had walked through the pieces. Industrial, we still expect continued strength overall within industrial. There's a little bit of a flip between Interconnect and Semi sequentially, you'll start to see a little bit of the seasonal build that happens normally in Interconnect, primarily within the smartphone space. Then we actually see a little bit of sequential deceleration in Semi from Q1 to Q2, really a function of what Ed had mentioned earlier on one of the larger customers overbuilding in Q1 and then pulling back in Q2. Net-net, there's not a material change in revenue for the total company or EPS from Q1 to Q2.

Josh Spector
Josh Spector
Executive Director of Chemicals Equity Research at UBS

Okay. Thanks. No, appreciate that. I guess kind of following up on a prior question, you know, if this all, this recovery in semis pushes out again another quarter, you know, you had $200 million sales cut, $100 million EBITDA cut. You talked about some production kind of realignment. If this were to push forward again or push out again, would there be any difference in the decrement that we should expect, either due to price cost or anything else that would maybe be an additional lever you'd consider?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. I mean, right now we expect that that headwind that we'll see in the first half of roundly $90 million from pulling back production in EPS, not being there in Q3 and Q4 in the second half. If this recovery could extends into fourth quarter, then you'd expect that $45 million to recur again in the third quarter. The one caveat that we will make that we don't have baked into the guide too that could offset any decremental weakness if the recovery is pushed out is that price cost piece. We don't have anything material baked in that could become a tailwind to the second half, based on what we see right now versus what we see right now.

Josh Spector
Josh Spector
Executive Director of Chemicals Equity Research at UBS

Okay. Thank you.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of John Roberts from Credit Suisse. Please proceed.

John Roberts
John Roberts
Managing Director of U.S. Equity Research at Credit Suisse

Thank you. Healthcare alone now is gonna be almost the same size as Shelter Solutions. Do you create a reportable healthcare segment and move the rest of Safety into Industrial, or do you put Spectrum into a larger Safety segment where healthcare will be about 40% of the Safety segment?

John Roberts
John Roberts
Managing Director of U.S. Equity Research at Credit Suisse

John. Well, it's something we've been looking at, how to report it. You know, it's interesting. Healthcare will be 10% of the portfolio now. The Water business, by the way, is developed into 10% of the portfolio. I think both really nice, good secular end markets for us over the coming years at higher growth rates, obviously, both of those. We'll take a look at that. We'll probably look at it as we enter 2024 to see if we do anything, but no decision on that yet.

John Roberts
John Roberts
Managing Director of U.S. Equity Research at Credit Suisse

Okay. On the delay in electronics, do you have any long lead time orders that actually show an inflection in demand yet?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

No, 'cause it's a short cycle business, so no, you can't really. You know, we'll have a little bit of lift, as Lori said, in the ICS business, and that's typical for us. As she said, you know, you're going into the holiday season later in the year, so we start our shipments. You can see on one of our charts, you know, just the smartphone piece alone picks up in third, fourth quarter there. We begin shipments there. Past that, you know, it's short cycle business, and we'll see it and we'll ship it pretty quick.

John Roberts
John Roberts
Managing Director of U.S. Equity Research at Credit Suisse

Okay. Thank you.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yep.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Steve Byrne from BOA. Please proceed.

Steve Byrne
Managing Director of Equity Research for US Chemicals at BOA

Yes. Wanted to ask about your water treatment growth. Would you say that it's being driven more by, you know, the treatment of water for consumption or for wastewater discharge? Are you seeing any increased demand for both of those buckets due to fluorinated compounds, either from, you know, EPA's drinking water standards that are underway or EPA scrutiny on any company that's using a fluorinated material?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

I mean, the growth we have seen would be more on the industrial side. The business is about 70% favored towards industrial wastewater treatment, so that's what's driving the growth. There's nothing material that we're seeing with respect to any groundwater remediation that's coming out from the EPA.

Steve Byrne
Managing Director of Equity Research for US Chemicals at BOA

Okay.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Remember, Steve, you know, 70% of that business is recurring. You know, we're replacing membranes and all at these industrial sites. It's just a secular trend that should continue 'cause including DuPont, we're all working on that for our ESG targets. It's, you know, besides greenhouse gas emissions, it's the other big one.

Steve Byrne
Managing Director of Equity Research for US Chemicals at BOA

One on Shelter Solutions. Clearly, it's going through a cyclical downturn, but just curious about your longer term view on Shelter Solutions. Is it likely to remain a core business for you?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah, no, it's a core business for us. Remember, a very key component of that is our Tyvek franchise, which is a very nice margin business for us against all of the end markets that we service with Tyvek, including the construction market. Obviously, Lori mentioned a really nice market for that is medical packaging. No, it's definitely part of the portfolio.

Steve Byrne
Managing Director of Equity Research for US Chemicals at BOA

Okay. Thank you.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah, thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of John McNulty from BMO Capital. Please proceed.

John McNulty
John McNulty
Managing Director of Chemical Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Yeah, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. On the topic of raw materials, I know what you said is in the guide. I guess I'm curious, in terms of the raw material basket that you're buying today, acknowledging it takes some time to work through the P&L, can you help us to understand how much that might be down from the peak and how we should be thinking about that?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. We saw around the $800 million of escalation last year. It was about 60% raws and the rest roughly split between logistics and energy. We are seeing deceleration on the logistics and the energy side. Obviously you can look at European and U.S. natural gas and see there's been a sizable pullback there. The ocean freight rates, we're seeing tailwinds as well. That's where we're seeing most of the deceleration. I wouldn't say we've seen a material amount thus far on the raw material side, either on both the bulk buy or on the tail spend. That's the upside as we head into the rest of the year is when we start to see an inflection in the raw material buy.

John McNulty
John McNulty
Managing Director of Chemical Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Actually, you're not buying them lower now. That's to come, and then it still has to work through the P&L. Is that right?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. Yes. Correct.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

I think, John, it's important to note that there are individual raw materials where we would be buying at lower prices, but, you know, there are others that have maintained an inflation curve. There are a lot of things that we buy that are very supply driven in terms of the dynamic, and it could take quite a while to kinda unlock any kind of relief there, even if you take a really basic benchmark price and suggest that that could be down already today. There are puts and takes within the portfolio, but I think, yeah, the punchline here is that there's well less than $100 million of net benefit in the model that we have today.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

That's inclusive of some of the savings that Lori referenced from logistics and energy. You know, netting out, as we go through the year later, some potential give back that could be necessary. There really isn't that much in there. Yeah, I suppose that could present an opportunity, as we look forward, but we haven't seen, you know, a lot of benefit come through today.

John McNulty
John McNulty
Managing Director of Chemical Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Got it. Okay. Fair enough. Just 1 question on the acquisition. The growth rate from 2019 to 2023 of 12% is a pretty chunky number. At the same time, if memory recalls, like during the COVID period, medical device demand was actually pretty soft. Didn't have a whole lot of access to surgical suite. Is that 12% understated in your mind, or is that kind of a fair run rate and it's just, you know, based on the specific products they make, maybe, you know, it didn't have that pressure that maybe some others in medical devices did? How should we be thinking about that?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

I mean, it wouldn't have had the same magnitude of pressure as some of the other providers into the elective surgery. It's selling into the non-elective type, so kind of more the essential surgery. It wouldn't have seen that as significant of a COVID headwind. I would say the 12% CAGR that we saw from 2019 to 2023 wouldn't be too materially off from where we see it going forward. We see it a little bit decelerating to the high single-digit range, but still a really nice growth for us.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Obviously really nice growth in 2023 on the back of already underlying strong volume as well as they had some sizable new customer wins that are in the process of ramping and really get to a nice clip as we head into the back half of 2023 as well.

John McNulty
John McNulty
Managing Director of Chemical Analyst at BMO Capital Markets

Got it. Thanks very much for the call. I appreciate it.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank. Please proceed.

David Begleiter
David Begleiter
Managing Director ofSenior Research Analyst at Deutsche Bank

Thank you. Ed, do you have an update on PFAS and the MDL ahead of the upcoming trial in Florida?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Yeah. The trial comes up in about a month out now, David. You know, I'll just say we've been talking pretty regularly with the plaintiffs. As I've mentioned last quarter, the judge did appoint a mediator who, by the way, is very actively involved with these regular conversations we're having. You know, we're feeling positive, but I'll leave it at that right now.

David Begleiter
David Begleiter
Managing Director ofSenior Research Analyst at Deutsche Bank

Got it.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

Can you provide a little more color on the weakness you're seeing in North American construction, resi versus non-resi, and any destocking that's still ongoing in that space? Thank you.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah. We saw pretty similar volume declines across all three end markets, so do-it-yourself, residential and commercial markets. Reminder just on the exposure in commercial, it's more so on like the healthcare and education side versus large commercial construction in downtown cities. We saw similar performance from a volume deceleration in all three. We don't have a material pickup in 2023 planned for those markets, so we'll see how they continue to perform, but we don't see an inflection like we do in electronics in construction in general.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

Thank you.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Mm-hmm.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Arun Viswanathan from RBC Capital Markets. Please proceed.

Arun Viswanathan
Arun Viswanathan
Senior Equity Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Hope you're doing well. Just looking at the full year guidance of $3.05 billion of EBITDA at the midpoint, and your Q2 of $715 million, that would imply that your second half is around $1.62 billion and your first half is around $1.43 billion. That $190 million uplift or $200 million almost uplift when you look at first half to second half, is that mainly, you know, the comps getting easier on the volume side for E&I? Are there any other special items we should kind of consider when we think about that cadence?

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

I mean, it's mostly within E&I, that lift, and it's gonna be more favored to Q4 versus Q3, as you look at the slides that we presented on both the smartphones and the semi MSI side. Most of it is that anticipated second half recovery. There is a little bit of seasonality that would play into a first half versus second half comp, but most of it is that electronics recovery, and as I had mentioned, a little bit more favor to Q4 versus Q3.

Arun Viswanathan
Arun Viswanathan
Senior Equity Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Okay. Thanks. Just one quicker one on M&A. You guys, you know, have now reentered the market with the Spectrum acquisition. You know, would you say that the portfolio transformation is now kind of complete or are you still considering other opportunities within the five markets that you've been looking at?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

I. You know, you're never, I guess, complete, but I would summarize it, yes. We feel like we're complete for a period of time here. We like where we're at. This was the last piece we were looking at. So I don't see anything over the next, like, year just to, again, stay the time period. You know, I think we like where the portfolio is at. We just want to operationally run it well.

Arun Viswanathan
Arun Viswanathan
Senior Equity Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Perfect. Thanks.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Great. Thanks.

Operator

Our final question comes from the line of Mike Sison from Wells Fargo. Please proceed.

Mike Sison
Mike Sison
Managing Director of Chemicals Equity Research at Wells Fargo

Hey, good morning.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Good morning.

Mike Sison
Mike Sison
Managing Director of Chemicals Equity Research at Wells Fargo

In terms of Spectrum, is there a pretty big runway in terms of other acquisitions there? You know, you sort of exited plastics, you're back into plastics. I get it, healthcare is a much better end market. You know, is this an opportunity to build a pretty big, you know, plastics healthcare unit over time?

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

There's definitely more you could add to it. Again, we like it secularly, so that's why we've, you know, kind of doubled down in this area. You know, remember, we have a lot of opportunity between what we already had and what they had, so we really like it because of that. Yeah, there's other opportunities down the road, but it's just like [audio distortion]. We wanna get this in. We wanna get it synergized. We wanna get it really humming with our business. You know, over the next year, that's what we'll be focused on.

Mike Sison
Mike Sison
Managing Director of Chemicals Equity Research at Wells Fargo

Just a quick follow-up. When I take a look at slide 14, does inventory destocking end in 2Q? Even if the third quarter isn't that much of an improvement sequentially, E&I's results could improve if the destocking is sort of done.

Lori Koch
CFO at DuPont

Yeah, we do see the destocking moderating in Q2. Yes. It peaked kind of in the 1Q, 2Q timeframe, and then we see it pulling off a bit in Q3, Q4.

Mike Sison
Mike Sison
Managing Director of Chemicals Equity Research at Wells Fargo

Thank you.

Ed Breen
CEO at DuPont

Thanks.

Operator

I would now like to turn the call over to Chris Mecray for closing remarks.

Chris Mecray
Head of Investor Relations at DuPont

Yeah. Thank you everyone for joining our call, and for your reference, a copy of our transcript will be posted on our website. This concludes the call. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Analysts
    • Aleksey Yefremov
      Senior Chemicals Equity Research Analyst at KeyBanc
    • Arun Viswanathan
      Senior Equity Analyst at RBC Capital Markets
    • Chris Mecray
      Head of Investor Relations at DuPont
    • Christopher Parkinson
      Managing Director of Senior Equity Analyst at Mizuho
    • David Begleiter
      Managing Director ofSenior Research Analyst at Deutsche Bank
    • Ed Breen
      CEO at DuPont
    • Jeff Sprague
      Founder and Managing Partner at Vertical Research Partners
    • John McNulty
      Managing Director of Chemical Analyst at BMO Capital Markets
    • John Roberts
      Managing Director of U.S. Equity Research at Credit Suisse
    • Josh Spector
      Executive Director of Chemicals Equity Research at UBS
    • Lori Koch
      CFO at DuPont
    • Mike Leithead
      Director of Equity Research at Barclays
    • Mike Sison
      Managing Director of Chemicals Equity Research at Wells Fargo
    • Scott Davis
      Chairman and CEO at Melius Research
    • Steve Byrne
      Managing Director of Equity Research for US Chemicals at BOA
    • Steve Tusa
      Managing Director of Senior Equity Research Analyst at JPMorgan
    • Vincent Andrews
      Managing Director of Equity Reseach Analyst at Morgan Stanley
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