B. Riley Financial Q3 2023 Earnings Report

B. Riley Financial EPS Results

• Actual EPS: -$1.59
• Consensus EPS: N/A
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

B. Riley Financial Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $462.31 million
• Expected Revenue: N/A
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

B. Riley Financial Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q3 2023
• Date: 11/8/2023
• Time: N/A
• Conference Call Date: Wednesday, November 8, 2023
• Conference Call Time: 8:30AM ET

B. Riley Financial (NASDAQ:RILY), headquartered in Los Angeles, California, is a diversified financial services company offering a broad range of advisory and investment solutions to individual, corporate and institutional clients. Since its founding in 1997 by Bryant E. Riley, the firm has expanded its capabilities across two primary segments: financial solutions and operations solutions. Its financial solutions segment provides investment banking services, equity research, merger and acquisition advisory, corporate finance, restructuring advisory and private capital solutions.

In addition to traditional investment banking, B. Riley’s operations solutions segment delivers specialized services including auction, appraisal, professional liquidations, third-party logistics and digital marketing to support clients in maximizing the value of their assets. Through its subsidiary Great American Group, the firm conducts global auctions and valuations for businesses undergoing restructuring or needing asset realization services. B. Riley also offers strategic consulting via FocalPoint Partners, providing management advisory and interim executive services to middle-market companies.

Over time, B. Riley Financial has grown through a series of acquisitions and strategic investments. The acquisition of FBR & Co. in 2017 enhanced its equity research and trading platforms, broadening its reach with institutional investors. The company’s diversified model allows it to serve clients across various industries—including retail, industrial manufacturing and healthcare—primarily throughout North America, with selected international engagements.

Led by founder and Chief Executive Officer Bryant E. Riley, B. Riley Financial emphasizes an entrepreneurial approach to tailor solutions that address complex financial and operational challenges. The firm’s integrated platform seeks to leverage cross-disciplinary expertise, providing clients with cohesive guidance from initial valuation through to execution and post-transaction management.

B. Riley Financial Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• B. Riley reported Q3 operating adjusted EBITDA of $107.5 million, a 34% increase from Q2, and achieved its highest-ever quarterly operating revenue.
• The company recorded a net loss of $76 million driven by unrealized mark-to-market investment losses, but management emphasized these are not indicative of its core business performance.
• Key segments delivered strong results: retail liquidation and advisory services hit record revenues, while investment banking activity and wealth management margins improved sequentially.
• B. Riley bolstered its balance sheet by raising $150 million in equity, expanding its credit facility by $240 million, and reducing other debt by $160 million, ending Q3 with over $2 billion in cash and investments.
• Total Q3 revenues rose 48% year-over-year to $462 million, and 9-month revenues increased 86% to $1.3 billion versus the prior year.

Presentation

[Operator]

Good morning, and welcome to the B. Riley Financial's third quarter 2023 earnings call. My name is Brit, and I will be your call coordinator. Earlier this morning, B. Riley issued its third quarter earnings release. A copy of the release can be found on B. Riley's Investor Relations website at ir.brileyfin.com, or on the right side of your screen if you're joining us today via web. Today's call includes prepared remarks from the company, which will be followed by a question-and-answer session with the management team. Joining us today from B. Riley are Bryant Riley, chairman, co-founder, and CEO, Tom Kelleher, co-founder and co-CEO, and Phillip Ahn, CFO and COO. After management's remarks, we will open the line for questions. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded, and an audio replay of this call will be available later today.

[Operator]

Finally, before we conclude today's call, I will provide the necessary cautions regarding forward-looking statements. Now, I will turn the call over to Mr. Bryant Riley. Mr. Riley, you may proceed.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining our call. During the quarter, we continued to execute our platform strategy, generating a meaningful amount of operating EBITDA, while at the same time maintaining disciplined focus on balance sheet flexibility to pursue our continued growth. We generated operating Adjusted EBITDA of $107.5 million for the third quarter of 2023, up 34% from Q2, and operating EBITDA of $267.8 million for the first nine months of 2023. Net loss of $76 million was driven by investment losses, which were primarily unrealized and relates to changes in mark-to-market valuation on investments that we hold. As we've noted before, our investment gains and losses for any particular period are not indicative of our overall business performance, and we have a high degree of confidence in these investments.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Our third quarter operating results highlighted strength across our platform, with increased revenue and client activity levels picking up from earlier this year. To put this into perspective, our Q3 operating revenue is the highest quarterly total in our firm's history, and our Q3 operating EBITDA ranks 3rd highest. On a year-to-date basis for the first 9 months, our 2023 operating revenue also ranks highest, and operating EBITDA ranks 2nd. This is a direct outcome of our strategy and the steps we've taken to change the relative mix of stable, lower-margin revenue versus episodic higher-margin revenue.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

A few highlights for the quarter include strong performance from retail liquidation and another record revenue period for advisory services, which continue to outperform as an additional bright spot on our platform, with increased contributions from both our specialty consulting and appraisal units, in addition to a strong quarter from our real estate restructuring division. During the quarter, we also saw meaningful increase in investment banking activity and improved performance from wealth management as a result of the actions we undertook to rightsize this business last year. In terms of our investments, we believe that equity valuations in the small cap market are as attractive as we have seen in a number of years, and we'll look to take advantage of this opportunity, both as a principal, but also to facilitate transactions for our clients.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

We have continued our disciplined focus on maintaining an optimal capital structure to both fund our continued growth and to take advantage of future opportunities. During the quarter, we raised approximately $150 million in equity proceeds in connection with our common stock offering in July, expanded our Nomura credit facility by approximately $240 million, and reduced our other outstanding debt by over $160 million. Taken together, these events resulted in a meaningful change in our capitalization as of September 30th. With over $2 billion of cash and investment and a balanced debt profile, with the vast majority of our debt maturing in 2026-2028, our platform is strongly positioned as we look ahead to 2024 and beyond. We founded B.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Riley over 25 years ago on a principle that there was a void of financial full-service firms that could adequately support the needs of companies and investors focused on the lower middle market. I think that premise still remains true today, and there's no other platform as diverse and competitively positioned as ours in the ability to provide value to our clients and partners. And there is no better team than the world-class professionals across our B. Riley platform. With that, I will now turn the call over to Phil Ahn, our CFO and COO, to discuss key metrics for the quarter. Phil?

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

Thanks, Bryant. For the third quarter of 2023, B. Riley generated total revenues of $462 million, which represents a 48% increase from $312 million for the same period in 2022. Total revenues also increased by 86% to $1.3 billion for the first nine months of 2023, compared to $699 million in the prior year period. Growth in revenue during the quarter was primarily driven by our auction liquidation segment, consumer segment, and financial consulting segment. On a GAAP basis, we recorded a third quarter net loss of $76 million, primarily attributable to unrealized investment losses of the equity investments that we hold. Year to date, we reported a net loss of $16 million. Despite the markdowns in our investment portfolio, our platform continues to deliver strong operating results.

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

For the third quarter of this year, operating revenues increased to $473 million, up from $319 million in the prior year quarter. Operating revenues increased to $1.22 billion for the first nine months of 2023, up from $843 million in the same prior year period. Third quarter operating Adjusted EBITDA increased to $107.5 million, up from $106.2 million in the prior year quarter. Year to date, operating Adjusted EBITDA increased to $268 million, up from $265 million in the first nine months of 2022. As a reminder, Adjusted EBITDA and our metrics for operating and investment results may be considered non-GAAP financial measures.

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

Investors can find additional details relating to these metrics, including a reconciliation to the nearest GAAP measures in our earnings release and our financial supplement, which will be posted to our investor relations website. Now, turning to a summary of our balance sheet as of September 30th. At quarter end, we had approximately $252 million of unrestricted cash and cash equivalents, $1.2 billion in net securities and other investments owned at fair value, and $549 million in loans receivable at fair value. Total cash and investments was $2.05 billion, including $58 million of other investments reported in prepaid and other assets. Total debt as of September 30th was approximately $2.36 billion. Total debt, net of cash and investments, was $311 million at quarter end.

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

Finally, we declared our regular quarterly dividend of $1 per share, which we paid on or about November 30th to stockholders of record as of November 20th. In addition, our board has approved an annual share repurchase plan under which B. Riley may repurchase up to 50 million of our common shares. This completes my financial summary. I'll now turn the call over to Tom Kelleher, our Co-CEO, to discuss our business segments. Tom?

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Thanks, Phil. B. Riley's unique combination of businesses and collaborative team approach has enabled us to continue to deliver against the backdrop of challenging markets. Throughout 2023, we have remained focused on executing on our strategic plans by continuing to invest in our platform, extending and strengthening our market share, and building out our execution capabilities. Excluding our investment results, our capital market segment contributed operating revenues of $151 million and operating income of $51 million during the third quarter. Within this segment, revenues from B. Riley Securities represented a year-over-year increase of over 10%, with investment banking fees revenue up over 100% from Q2, driven by significantly higher underwritten offerings. In addition to adding several new clients in Q3, we completed key mandates for several repeat clients, including Harrow Health and Landsea Homes.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Our M&A pipeline is beginning to bear fruit, and we expect activity to accelerate going into 2024. B. Riley Securities has established its leadership in capital formation for small caps in the middle market. As we continue to focus on developing and adding talent to expand our coverage, we believe we are positioned to increase market share as investment banking activity returns to more normalized activity levels. In our wealth management segment, revenues increased both year-over-year and on a sequential basis to $51 million. Our third quarter results demonstrate continued progress in our strategic initiatives to realign this business, with improving margins and an upward trend in recurring revenues. At quarter end, our wealth assets under management totaled $24 billion, and our producer base remained flat at approximately 400, representing a balanced mix between independent and W-2 advisors.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

As capital market activity improves, we believe there is an opportunity for more upside in this business. In auction and liquidations, B. Riley Retail Solutions had a robust third quarter, generating segment revenues of $78 million and segment income of $18 million, driven by an increase in both the number and the size of our retail liquidation engagements. The influx of new business that started during Q2 continued in the third quarter, with several new and ongoing domestic and European projects carrying into the fourth quarter. Engagements completed during the quarter include Bed Bath & Beyond, which we led with our JV partners and Salamander Shoes in Europe. More recent engagements include Z Gallerie and Depot Germany, which will contribute to future quarters. New business in Europe also continues to be promising as European retailers feel the effects of poor sales, reduced consumer spending, and rising interest rates.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Financial consulting segment revenues of $37 million represents an increase both on a sequential and absolute basis as another record period for our advisory services business. Segment income was $10.5 million for the quarter, and we are seeing momentum continue into what is historically a busy season in Q4. Increasing levels of client activity across bankruptcy and litigation, consulting, appraisal, and real estate restructuring contributed to our strong quarterly results. Additionally, our team of professionals at Farber have already contributed meaningful results since joining our platform in February. This team operates as a seamless extension of our core bankruptcy and restructuring services in the Canada market, and we are currently in the process of introducing legacy Farber's interim management and executive search as a new capability for us in the United States.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

We look forward to bringing our forensic accounting services to Canada in the near future as well. In our appraisal division, year-over-year revenues and operating income increased across the board in all of our business lines, including inventory, machinery, and corporate valuations. Our appraisal business has continued to steadily gain market share over the last 5 years, and we expect demand from asset-based lenders to remain robust. Turning to our communications portfolio, segment revenues were $84 million, and segment income was $7.5 million for the third quarter. As a reminder, we acquired these businesses at opportunistic valuations and with an understanding that the portions of the respective market segments may continue to decline. We acquired United Online in 2016 and magicJack in late 2018.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Since then, we've generated cash flows in excess of our original purchase prices for these businesses within about 2 years in the case of United Online and within 3.5 years for magicJack. Both continue to be strong cash flow contributors to B. Riley. Based on our earlier successes with these businesses, we added Marconi Wireless to our portfolio in late 2021, and Lingo and Bullseye through a series of transactions over the last year, which contributed to the significant increase in this segment. In our consumer segment, revenues of $63 million for the third quarter were largely driven by the addition of Targus to our platform in Q4 of last year, in addition to the brand licensing revenues from our six brands portfolio.

[Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Targus has faced challenges in 2023 due to softness in the overall PC marketplace, and as a result, we recorded a non-cash goodwill and trade name impairment charge of $35.5 million, which contributed to a segment loss for the quarter. However, with the strength of the Targus brand and financial strength of B. Riley, we believe Targus will be competitively positioned to gain share as the PC market recovers. Now, I'd like to turn the call back over to Bryant. Bryant?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Thanks, Tom. Before we open up the call for Q&A, I just wanted to take a few moments to address news surrounding FRG. It wouldn't be appropriate for us to speculate or provide commentary on the reported allegations. However, I do think it's important for us to lend context to how we view FRG as a business and our rationale for that investment. During the quarter, we announced our role leading the financing of FRG's $2 billion take private transaction. We placed a significant portion of the equity and principally invested in the deal alongside management and other co-investors. We own a little over 30% equity interest in the private entity in connection with that transaction.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

FRG is comprised of six distinct businesses with over 3,000 combined locations across the U.S. and Canada, including American Freight, Badcock Furniture, Buddy's Home Furnishings, Pet Supplies Plus, Sylvan Learning Centers, and The Vitamin Shoppe. Given our view that FRG's public valuation was below the sum of its parts, we saw a compelling opportunity to participate in its take-private, as to many co-investors of that deal. We invested in FRG based on the fundamental of those distinct businesses. That is, we underwrote, and that is what we invested in, the FRG business, and our confidence in these businesses has not waned at all. From an operational perspective, FRG is not run by any one individual. As franchise businesses, these companies are run by six different management teams that operate with their own infrastructures.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

FRG was formed through the purchase of shares of the founder of Liberty Tax in 2018. We purchased these shares at approximately $8 per share, and we were a larger shareholder than the current management team at that time. We realized a return of over 30% IRR over the next few years on that original investment. We know these assets. As CEO, Brian Kahn was the architect that helped put these businesses together to form FRG as it, as it is known today. I've known Brian for many years and have had no direct experience with what has been alleged. We learned of this matter late last week, like many others, and we continue to closely monitor relevant developments. However, I have no interest in going through hypotheticals and speculation.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

B. Riley's business is much more than just FRG, and to the extent to which we have ever needed to work to protect the firm's interests and that of our investment partners, we have and always will. With that, we are ready to open for Q&A. As always, we're happy to address any questions within the context of our results and our overall business. Operators, please open the line for questions. Thanks.

[Operator]

Thank you. At this time, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you've joined via web, please press the Raise Hand icon on the right side of your Deal Roadshow screen. Again, that's star one on your telephone keypad or the Raise Hand icon on the right side of your Deal Roadshow screen. We'll pause here briefly to allow questions to generate. Again, ladies and gentlemen, that's star one on your telephone keypad or the Raise Hand icon on the right side of your Deal Roadshow screen. Our first question comes from Sean at Charles Lane Capital. Your line is open.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Hey, good morning, guys.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Hey, Sean.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Hey, can you guys hear me all right?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yes. Can you hear me?

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Yeah. Loud and clear.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Okay, go ahead.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

So on the consumer side, how big of the revenue increase? Like, what contribution came from Targus on that?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

So I do have that number. I can tell you that effectively. I can break it down for you on EBITDA and we'll come back to you. But Targus was close to break even EBITDA for the quarter.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Okay.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

The brands business represented the vast majority of the EBITDA, and the brands business is doing great.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

And just, just remind me, what is Scotch & Soda? Is that, Hurley and Justice?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

So we have six brands that consist of smaller brands that we originally acquired from Bluestar. And then we—the bigger ones are Justice, Hurley, Scotch & Soda.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

And then we also have a majority position in bebe. So those are the majority owned. We're actually seeing some exciting momentum in Limited Too. That's one of our six brands where, you know, that's got a kind of a many of the children that shopped there are now mothers, and there's a lot of momentum around that brand. It's, we'll see what happens, but there's definitely some momentum there.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Got it. And then, on auction liquidation, big quarter, how should we think about the cadence of that business? I mean, for the current quarter, are you seeing engagements? How do we kind of model that out?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah. So look, we have tried to be really clear about how we think about the episodic businesses. And for a long time, the broker-dealer was really the driver of the EBITDA on the episodic businesses. We have always known that liquidation and retail advisory would have its time, and that business has been run break even, when there's nothing going on through some advisory stuff and things like that. And that's the same with the broker-dealer. When there's no capital markets and there's just no M&A, which has been the environment kind of off and on over the course of the last three or four months, where our goal is just to break even and to have meaningful upside when things turn. And I think what you saw this quarter is there is a little bit more distress in the retail side, both domestically and Europe.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

We are a leader there, and we had one of our best quarters ever. I can't tell you that, you know, the timing of the next event, it's really short usually. We will find out, you know, a month before there's a company that the banks may want to do something. Usually happens in Q4 because what you typically do is give a retailer through the holidays. So I will say that as I look forward in the next year of that business, I think it's going to be a very strong business. But I can't tell you that, like, there's an exact backlog. There's a lot of activity.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Okay. You know, a lot of a lot of news out there on a particular landlord recently filing for bankruptcy. Can you comment on just, is your real estate solutions business seeing any uptick in activity?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah, I mean, we're definitely seeing an uptick in activity. I just can't quantify it for you.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Okay. Fair enough. And then just last for me, just on the buyback, timing of that, I mean, the stock's obviously been hit recently. Is that something that's gonna be felt soon, or how are you guys thinking about that in terms of-

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

So, I mean, it's obviously something that we've done in the past, we'll do in the future when we think it makes sense. I mean, realize that what is not on our balance sheet is the decision we made to sell bonds to a broad array of buyers because yield was hard to get two years ago, and that is a huge asset. If we were to buy those bonds back in the open market, that would be, you know, like, that would be from where we issued them, over a $280 million profit. So we have we can do that. We have to determine whether we think the opportunities are better than the yield that those trade.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Obviously, we have equity out there that has a very low yield, and we feel like that's very undervalued. Our role, but, you know, the other thing I've said, Sean, before, is the number one thing we will do is we will utilize those dollars for retail advisory situations, liquidations, where we are a principal, that's our best IRR. And then, you know, there's just not a lot of buyers of small cap stocks, and there's not a lot of funders of small cap companies. And this is a time where we think we can use our balance sheet to really create a lot of value for our shareholders. If you remember the last go around, after COVID, I mean, we changed our whole business based on what we did there.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Our EBITDA doubled, and we think that this environment is a great environment for us. Like, we are incredibly well positioned to take advantage of that.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Okay. Yeah, I guess just, you know, you're trading at a, you know, the stock is at a kind of alarmingly high yield. Any thought of, you know, maybe diverting some of the funds you guys use for dividend towards either more buybacks or buying the bonds? Just given, you know, how high your dividend yield is today.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Look, I think that we would, the dividend is very important to us, and it's important for us to return a portion of our EBITDA to shareholders. I think what we could do if we wanted to be more aggressive on those things, we have some, like, the brand's assets are amazing assets. They generate $50 million of dividends. Those assets are super valuable. Do we think from time and, you know, the partners here are, that in that, in that business are amazing, and I'm a huge fan. But do we, is that, is that something that historically has traded at 12x, maybe traded 80x or 10x now?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

That's something that, you know, if things got, you know, if there was an opportunity for us to do something dramatic because our shares or our business is being undervalued, you know, we would not hesitate to do something like that.

[Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital]

Okay, good to hear. Thanks, guys, for taking my questions, and thanks, thanks for the update.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Thanks, Sean.

[Operator]

Thank you, Sean. Again, ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to ask a live question, please press star one on your telephone keypad, or if you've joined us via the web, it's the raise hand icon on the right side of your Deal Roadshow screen.

[Mike Frank, Head of Investor Relations at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah, I have an email-in question. This is Mike Frank. Bryant, can you walk through the updated recurring EBITDA, and then go through the forward interest expense, and maybe touch on the break even for B. Riley Securities?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Sure. So the break even EBITDA, when you're talking about break even, where we're paying for our whole dividend, right? Paying our interest expense, it's in and around $85 million. And let me give you how we underwrite that $85 million. Excuse me, and then you can kind of work through those numbers. So the way that we underwrite that $85 million is, the broker-dealer for a long period of time was averaging $30 million a quarter in EBITDA. We just underwrite that to $15 million a quarter. You know, obviously did more this quarter. The retail advisory can be all over the place, but we underwrite that to $7 million a quarter. Appraisal and advisory, I mean, look at those numbers.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Those numbers, the appraisal business is up 35%. Advisory is up far more than that. Those two businesses this quarter did over $10 million in EBITDA. But we underwrite that to $8 million-$10 million in EBITDA per quarter. So you're at about $30 million. Telecoms, you know, we were underwriting that to closer to $70-$80 a quarter. You know, I think it's in and around 15-17.5 per quarter at the telecom assets. Wealth, we underwrite to about $4 million per quarter. Brands, including bebe, $12 million per quarter. Interest income, you know, in and around $25 million per quarter, $25 million-$30 million per quarter, and Targus, $10 million per quarter. So, you know, Targus right now is, last quarter was flat.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

It's going to be EBITDA positive this quarter, and we are starting to see the PC market come back. For many, many years, that business generated at least $40 million in EBITDA per quarter. So, you know, we're not going to recognize right now that that business is not. But in our long-term model, we underwrite that. So if you add all that up, it comes out to somewhere and then take, you know, $10 million from corp, it comes out to somewhere, you know, in and around $85 million-$90 million bucks. And then there's. We think those are the conservative views of the, each of those businesses.

[Mike Frank, Head of Investor Relations at B. Riley Financial]

And then, Phil, do you want to comment on the interest expense, going forward and any other corporate overhead that might be included in those recurring businesses?

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

Well, I can just comment on the go-forward interest expense. We're roughly run-rating at about $42 million a quarter in interest expense, that when we net it against some of our investments and the net interest income that we're receiving, the net of that is in the low 20s. And when Brian was just talking about the operating business, that's inclusive of allocations for corporate.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

So, so the quick math, quick math is if you take 90 and we have EBITDA of 12, excuse me, we have interest of call it 40. You know, it depends whether we're going to pay taxes or not. You know, the dividend, there's no CapEx in this business, very little CapEx. And, you know, you always have a minimum amount of taxes, but, you know, that's kind of the math. Anything else, Mike? Hello?

[Mike Frank, Head of Investor Relations at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah. So we've got a couple other in the queue. Operator, do you want to go to the next question, please?

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Brett at Nokomis Capital. Brett, your line is open.

[Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital]

Hey, Brett. Hey, Brian. Hey, Brian, could you just remind us which brands were there where essentially your royalty income goes into dividend, and if there's anything else that was added into that line item year-over-year?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah. Phil, do you have the breakdowns of each of the brands or the roughly? I mean, I have them roughly, but do you have that number handy?

[Phil Ahn, CFO and COO at B. Riley Financial]

I'm sorry. Actually, I don't have that, but I can follow up on that with you, Brett.

[Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital]

Okay. Thanks.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yeah, Brett, Brett, the number you're solving for. The brands business had a really strong quarter. Hold on. Let me just give you a little bit. I have it here. Just give me one sec. But the brands business had a really strong quarter, so. You know, six brands for the quarter was in and around $3-ish, $3-ish and change million. Hurley Justice was in and around $9 million. That's $9.5 million. That's higher than typical. Scotch & Soda, we had a little bump from Scotch & Soda because, you know, they have done a really good job of kind of getting to a spot of liquidating the assets before it's just a regular brand. So we picked up a couple million there. So that's probably the biggest difference you're seeing is the Scotch & Soda.

[Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital]

Got it, because I can't remember the timing. Scotch & Soda was not in Q3 a year ago?

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

No, it was not.

[Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital]

Okay. So when I think of that, I think it went from $9.2 million-$12.9 million of dividend income. I should think about a moderate amount of same-store growth, probably mostly limited to which we're seeing in, I guess, a bigger presence in Walmart and then adding Scotch & Soda, it gets you that growth.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Yep.

[Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital]

Okay, thanks.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you, Brett. This concludes today's Q&A. I'd like to turn the call back to Mr. Riley for his closing remarks.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Thanks, operator. I want to actually answer some questions that I don't think were asked, and I think there's noise out there, so I want to address it and be crystal clear. We would have bought all of Franchise Group. We are a huge fan of that business, and it's a really simple analysis. They have a great steady EBITDA and Vitamin Shoppe. Pet Supplies Plus, which was bought for $900 million, is going to get to $140 million in the next couple of years. American Freight is an unbelievable business that faces the same challenges as Target. That's a business that was doing $110 million in 2021 and went down along with Badcock.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

That was our opportunity, and we would buy that over and over again. We were a founder in that business. We have been a great—we've had great partnership with Brian. We have great partnership with other management teams. We've helped fund Badcock. We sold the real estate. We made 27% IRR on our receivables. We made, on the first batch, we made over 40%. On the second batch, we have $50 million exposure there now, which is money good. And we, over time, determined that the better path was to allow shareholders that were involved in Franchise Group, many of which rolled, as well as management, many of which purchased in the deal to participate. So there should be no confusion where that is.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

I know that today a statement came out from Brian denying any involvement in what happened with Prophecy, and that's good enough for me. So I'm a fan. I don't—I want to just be crystal clear. We—I believe we are going to make a lot of money for our shareholders and Franchise Group, just like we did in the first investment when we bought a big chunk of Liberty Tax at $8, and just like we did at Badcock, and just like. And we will continue to do so. So want to answer that question and, we'll go back to closing this out. And by the way, just want to again shout out to everybody that's a partner with us.

[Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO at B. Riley Financial]

Many of our shareholders that invested in our initial deal at $5 are still shareholders, and we appreciate your partnership. The people that we work with, our partners are like, they're the best out there, and I am so excited about how we are going to create value in the next year with a little bit of dislocation out there. So thank you, operator, and we look forward to next quarter.

[Operator]

Thank you. Before we conclude today's call, I will provide B. Riley Financial's Safe Harbor statement, which includes important cautions regarding forward-looking statements made during this call. Statements made during this call that are not descriptors of historical facts are forward-looking statements that are based on management's current expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties. If such risks or uncertainties materialize or such assumptions prove incorrect, our business, operating results, financial condition, and stock price could be materially negatively affected. You should not place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, which are based on the information currently available to us and speak only as of today's date. Such forward-looking statements include, but are not limited to, statements regarding our excitement and the expected growth of our business segments.

[Operator]

Factors that could cause such actual results to differ materially from those contemplated or implied by such forward-looking statements include, without limitation, the risks described from time to time in B. Riley Financial Inc.'s periodic filings with the SEC, including, without limitation, the risks described in B. Riley Financial Inc.'s annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31st, 2022, under the captions Risk Factors and Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations, as applicable. Additional information will be set forth in B. Riley Financial's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30th, 2023. These factors should be considered carefully, and participants are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements. All information is current as of today's call, and B. Riley Financial undertakes no duty to update this information.

[Operator]

Thank you for joining us today for B. Riley Financial's third quarter 2023 earnings conference call. You may now disconnect.

Participants

Executives

• Bryant Riley, Chairman and Co-CEO
• Mike Frank, Head of Investor Relations
• Phil Ahn, CFO and COO
• Tom Kelleher, Co-CEO

Analysts

• Brett Hendrickson, Analyst at Nokomis Capital
• Sean Haydon, Analyst at Charles Lane Capital