Badger Meter Q4 2024 Earnings Report

Badger Meter EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $1.04
• Consensus EPS: $1.01
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$0.03
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

Badger Meter Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: N/A
• Expected Revenue: $202.75 million
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

Badger Meter Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q4 2024
• Date: 1/31/2025
• Time: Before Market Opens
• Conference Call Date: Friday, January 31, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 11:00AM ET

Badger Meter (NYSE:BMI) manufactures and markets flow measurement, quality, control, and communication solutions worldwide. It offers mechanical or static water meters, and related radio and software technologies and services to municipal water utilities market. The company also provides flow instrumentation products, including meters, valves, and other sensing instruments to measure and control fluids going through a pipe or pipeline, including water, air, steam, and other liquids and gases to original equipment manufacturers as the primary flow measurement device within a product or system, as well as through manufacturers' representatives. In addition, the company offers ORION Cellular endpoints to power network as a service; ORION mobile read endpoints support for deploying AMR solution; radio products; hardware, instruments, and sensors, and related software, to enhance connected data to a water utility's operation; water quality monitoring solutions, including optical sensing and electrochemical instruments; and high frequency pressure and leak detection sensors to aid in burst pipe and leak events; as well as BEACON, a secure cloud-hosted software suite that establishes alerts for specific conditions and allows consumer engagement tools that permit end water customers to view and manage their water usage activity. Its flow instrumentation products are used in water/wastewater, heating, ventilating and air conditioning, and corporate sustainability markets. The company serves water utilities, commercial, and industrial industries; and provides training, project management, technical support, and other collaborative services for customers. It sells its products and software directly, as well as through resellers and representatives. The company was incorporated in 1905 and is based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Badger Meter Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• Q4 highlights: 13% sales growth, 40.3% gross margin (up 110 bps), operating margin expansion to 19.1%, record EPS of $1.04 (+24%), and record free cash flow of $47.4 M (+32%).
• Acquired SmartCover for $185 M (5× 2024 sales) to add sewer overflow and lift station monitoring into the Blue Edge suite, expanding actionable data capabilities for water utilities.
• 2024 full year: 18% sales growth to over $800 M, 14% 5-year top-line CAGR, software revenue of $56 M (6.7% of sales, 28% 5-year CAGR), record 23% EBITDA margin, and over 100% free cash flow conversion.
• Outlook: continue high single-digit sales growth, gradual margin improvement, but maintain 38–40% gross margin range amid tariff uncertainty; SmartCover will raise SEA% in FY25 and mute Q1 margins.
• Financial flexibility remains strong with >$100 M cash post-acquisition and an unused revolver, supporting both organic investments and further M&A, with SmartCover accretive in year two.

Presentation

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Q4 2024 Badger Meter Earnings Conference Call. After the prepared remarks, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Karen Bauer, Vice President of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy and Treasurer. Please go ahead, Ms.

[Operator]

Bauer.

[Karen Bauer, VP of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy & Treasurer at Badger Meter]

Good morning, and thank you for joining the Badger Meter 4th quarter and full year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. On the call with me today are Ken Bachhorst, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer Bob Rockledge, Chief Financial Officer and Barb Novarini, Senior Director of Investor Relations. Please note that the earnings release and related slide presentation are available on our website. Quickly, I'll cover the Safe Harbor, reminding you that any forward looking statements made during this call are subject to various risks and uncertainties, the most important of which are outlined in our press release and SEC filings. On today's call, we will refer to certain non GAAP financial metrics.

[Karen Bauer, VP of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy & Treasurer at Badger Meter]

Our earnings slides provide a reconciliation of the GAAP to non GAAP financial metrics used. With that, I'll turn the call over to Ken.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Thanks, Karen, and thank you all for joining our call. We capped off another record year with strong 4th quarter results across sales, operating profit, earnings per share and cash flow metrics. We also announced today the acquisition of Smart Cover. We're excited about incorporating their sewer and lift station monitoring offerings into our Blue Edge suite of tailorable solutions. I'll talk more about the acquisition, provide a recap of the year and discuss our outlook later in the call.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

For now, I'll turn it over to Bob to go through the details of the quarter.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Thanks, Ken, and good morning, everyone. Turning to Slide 4, as Ken mentioned, we delivered another quarter of solid results to close out 2024. From a sales standpoint, we delivered 13% quarterly sales growth, which as a reminder was on top of a difficult 24% increase in the prior year comparable quarter. Total utility water product line sales increased 14% year over year as we continue to deliver on solid demand across our Blue Edge suite of utility smart water solutions. Year over year growth was broad based led by cellular AMI adoption including associated meters, Orion cellular endpoints and Beacon Software as a Service.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Sales for the flow instrumentation product line were up slightly at 1% in the quarter, as growth in our core water related applications offset declines across the array of deemphasized end markets and customer applications. Turning to margins, we're very pleased that operating margins expanded 150 basis points to 19.1% in the quarter. Gross profit margins came in at 40.3%, a 110 basis point improvement from 39.2% in the prior year comparable quarter. The benefit of overall higher volumes, structural sales mix and solid price cost management contributed to the year over year gross margin improvement. SCA expenses in the Q4 were $43,500,000 an increase of approximately $4,000,000 year over year.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Consistent with prior quarters, the spending increase was due primarily to personnel related costs, including higher headcount and salaries to support our growth. Additionally, the increase included certain acquisition costs associated with the SmartCover transaction. SEA as a percent of sales declined 40 basis points to 21.2% from 21.6% in the comparable prior year quarter on the higher sales. The income tax provision in the Q4 of 2024 was 27.1% compared to 26.1% in the comparable prior year period. Similar to the full year 2024 tax rate, we continue to expect an ongoing effective income tax rate in the plus or minus 25% range, assuming no change in overall corporate income tax rates.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

In summary, consolidated EPS was $1.04 in the Q4 of 2024, a 24% improvement from $0.84 in the prior year comparable quarter. Primary working capital as a percent of sales at December 31, 2024 was 20.8%, which compared to 23.8% at last year end. Note that these percentages reflect the current year balance sheet reclassification of the current portion of deferred revenue from payables to other current liabilities for which prior years were not restated. There's an appendix slide that details this reclass on a pro form a basis and Karen will provide a bit more information in her call closeout comments. We were pleased with the primary working capital improvement, notably our reduction in absolute inventory levels.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

As a result, we generated strong free cash flow in the quarter, a record $47,400,000 up 32% year over year. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Ken.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Thanks, Bob. It's customary at the end of the year to take a step back and reflect on our collective performance against our strategic goals. So I couldn't be more pleased with the tangible outcomes from the team's efforts in 2024, which represent a continuation of trends seen in recent years as noted here on Slide 5. We delivered 18% sales growth in 2024, surpassing $800,000,000 in revenue with a 5 year top line CAGR of 14%. Our software revenue now exceeds $56,000,000 representing 6.7% of sales and resulting in a 28% compound annual growth rate over the past 5 years.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Operating profit margins expanded 450 points over the last 5 years with both gross margin improvement and SG and A leverage contributing to the margin expansion. EBITDA margins hit a record 23% in 2024. And finally, we reduced our working capital intensity and consistently generated free cash flow in excess of 100 percent of net earnings, enabling our ability to continue as the innovation leader in our market, return cash to shareholders in the form of dividends, doubling our dividend rate from just 5 years ago and building on our track record with 32 years of consecutive annual dividend increases and executing value enhancing acquisitions to further advance our portfolio of smart water solutions, the latest example of which I'll discuss next. Turning to Slides 67, I'll cover the SmartCover acquisition announced earlier this morning. SmartCover is a leading provider of water collection system monitoring solutions serving utility customers across North America.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

SmartCover's hardware enabled software offerings add to the scope of actionable data used by municipalities to improve efficiency, resiliency and sustainability. Specifically, Smart Cover provides sensors, software and related support services to monitor sewer levels on a real time basis. By identifying changes in patterns and alerting utility personnel to potential issues, the solutions work to predict, detect and prevent sewer overflow spills, which are becoming more frequent with the rise of extreme weather events like heavy rainfall and flooding. Reducing the frequency and severity of sewer overflows saves money while protecting public health and the environment. In addition, the technology reduces the need for high frequency cleanings, locates areas of inflow and infiltration, detects intrusion and assists with managing harmful sewer gases.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

SmartCover also provides lift station monitoring and control hardware and software solutions to improve pump station efficiency, supplementing our existing Telog offerings. And last but certainly not least, it brings strong talent with the expertise to assist our customers in applying these capabilities. We utilized existing cash on hand for the $185,000,000 purchase price. This equates to about 5 times SmartCovers 20.24 sales of approximately $35,000,000 The macro drivers behind technology deployment in the water sector such as labor availability, aging infrastructure and regulation, combined with the increasing occurrence of climate related severe weather events supports strong adoption rates for these technologies. And to put it in baseball terms, we believe sewer line monitoring is barely in the 1st inning.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

In addition, SmartCovers' leading market position, the recurring revenue dynamics and ability to further leverage the data and analytics into our full network monitoring solutions makes this a strategic deal with long term shareholder value creation. As noted, sales today are about $35,000,000 with high single digit EBITDA margins reflective of their scale and heavy growth investments. As part of Badger Meter and Blue Edge, we can amplify the top line growth rate by leveraging our direct sales organization and by advancing overall features and functionality with our world class communication and software technologies, which will continue to competitively differentiate Badger Meter's suite of offerings in the market. We will also aim to enhance profitability by leveraging existing infrastructure and processes in operations and supply chain. Finally, turning to our outlook, I know I said this last year, but it remains true even after our stellar 2024 results.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

I am as excited about the next 5 years as I've ever been. At a macro level, our Blue Edge suite of comprehensive and tailorable solutions continues to see growing adoption as we address the variety of persistent macro water challenges customers face, enabling them to be more efficient, resilient and sustainable with their water systems. Our durable business model is underpinned by replacement driven demand, secular AMI adoption drivers and the expanding need for real time data visualization and analytics spanning the water network. Our order book and opportunity pipeline along with constructive customer budgets continue to support the high single digit average top line growth we've been communicating for some time now. We also expect that positive structural sales mix and SEA leverage will continue to gradually improve margins over the strategic cycle.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Specifically on gross margin, we're pleased that in the back half of the year, we delivered above the high end of the normalized range of 38% to 40%, with the 6 quarters prior to that above 39%. While some might view that as reason to increase the range, the reality is we're in a heightened state of macro uncertainty, especially

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

as

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

it relates to potential tariffs, the scale, scope, timing and duration of which are unknown. As such, until there is further clarity, we believe it's prudent to keep the current range as our comfort zone, while continuing to drive improvement actions in the areas within our control. While we continue to anticipate that our SEA as a percent of sales will improve over the long term, the addition of Smart Cover will reset the bar higher than 2024 levels. This is a result of the higher than line average SEA as a percent of sales in their underlying operations as well as the added intangible asset amortization, which based on very preliminary estimates could be in the $6,000,000 to $7,000,000 range annually. Separately, I'll remind everyone that in the Q1 of 2025, margins for Smart Cover will be muted by the amortization of inventory fair value step up.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Additionally, interest income will decline year over year with the use of cash. Finally, even after acquiring Smart Cover, we'll have cash on the balance sheet of over $100,000,000 Along with the untapped revolver, we have significant financial flexibility and organizational capacity to further execute on our growth strategies, including both organic and inorganic investments. I want to again thank the entire Badger Meter team for their tremendous efforts and accomplishments in 2024 and to welcome our new SmartCover colleagues to Badger Meter. I look forward to executing on the many opportunities ahead together. With that operator, please open the line for questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. Our first question today comes from Andrew Krill with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

Hey, thanks. Good morning, everyone. I just wanted to ask on tariffs first. Just I think could you help size a little more explicitly your Mexico manufacturing exposure? I believe it's around like 30% of the square footage, but just any more like clarification on that would be helpful.

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

And then if we do have wide thread tariffs put in place tomorrow, could you give us some color on the contingency plans you have in place and maybe how long it might take to adjust price? Thank

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

you.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So that's a bit of a, of course, loaded question these days with so much uncertainty about what the impact of tariffs will be, what where they'll come from, how it all works. So I'll tell you what we do know and what we can control. And first of all, clearly, everyone would have some impact from tariffs regardless of however this comes through.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

But the things to remember are from a China point of view, we source very little. We've done a considerable amount of reshoring, if you will, back to North America over the last several years. We certainly have capacity in some of our U. S. Facilities that we can continue to use.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

And yes, we're very proud of our outstanding operation that we have in Nogales. So, I have no idea yet what the administration will do or how that will go. But the thing I would remind you through the last several years is, I think we've done a great job of being able to control what we can. We've seen over the last several years the threat of tariffs in the first Trump administration. We've been through COVID.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

We've been through supply chain challenges. And I think our hallmark has been understanding what we can control, acting with urgency around mitigating those actions and having a best in class operating model. So I don't know how to tell you how this is all going to work out and it's hard to model something when you have no idea what the impact is actually going to be.

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

Okay. 100% there.

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

Get it. And then just on the broader end market demand, and again conscious that you do not give explicit guidance, but I thought the choice of using resilient as the operative word in the press release was interesting. So maybe just we know there's multiple years of very impressive growth. Just do you think is your confidence higher now than it was when you reported Q3 earnings? That maybe 2025 could be a high single digit growth year?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

So it's not higher, but it's as good as it was in Q3. So we continued it's another quarter where I'm really proud of the results that we had and what we were able to get in revenue. Certainly, pleased with the order rate that we saw in the quarter, certainly pleased with still seeing several RFIs out on the street for AMI and water quality and other pieces of the Blue Edge portfolio and engineers are still working on projects in the future. So, I would just say nothing has changed. Our ongoing positive tone remains the same.

[Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank]

Okay, great. Thank you, guys.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Sure. Thank you.

[Operator]

And the question comes from Rob Mason with Baird. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

[Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co]

Yes, good morning. Can you talk a little bit about Smart Cover? What are the demand drivers there, kind of the catalysts? I'm just curious how much is maybe compliance driven, whether that's CSO overflow mandates? Just what's the catalyst for adoption primarily been to date for that solution?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So it is a mix of things. So one of the areas is, of course, regulation and critical system overflows where you've got mandates to be monitoring this in real time. Of course, labor availability is a driver. Many of the same macro drivers that we see on the rest of the business where labor availability, critical rising extreme weather events, adopting technology, it's one of the reasons we're excited about it.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

It's the same macro drivers, similar outstanding outlook for growth and then the ability to sell that through our existing channel is what has us pretty excited about it. But I would say the drivers are very similar to what has driven our growth over the last several years.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

And I would say adding to that whole equation that Ken just mentioned is obviously the market opportunity, meaning the rate of adoption of this technology at this stage as we alluded to in the earnings script was a first inning analogy. And so there's plenty of runway here in terms of the number of monitored manhole covers in North America. And we believe the market leading position of SmartCover positions us now to take advantage of that collectively across our leverage sales channel and customer base.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. And it's not just the regulation side, but when you can get into the reduction of the frequency of cleanings, there's financial paybacks. So there's many benefits to this that are, as Bob said, just really scratching the surface.

[Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co]

How much of the $35,000,000 in trailing revenue would be recurring in nature?

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Yes.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

So from a pure kind of what I would classify as recurring revenue, so the software and maintenance service business is roughly a third. I would say there's also another 20% or so that's more aftermarket product replacement service, which again is not recurring, but has a certain amount of durability to it.

[Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co]

Very good. Maybe just last question. Just shifting over to your business itself, you called out Bob the excellent working capital performance in the quarter. I'm just inventory did come down a fair amount from where it had been tracking through the year. Just curious what the enabler of that was?

[Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co]

And I mean is that a level that we should trend out as we go forward? Or does that come back up?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So I'll go first and I'm sure Bob will have something to add. But Rob, what I've been proud about is for several years now, we've really talked about our continuous improvement mindset across the business. And we mentioned to you at the beginning, the year that we thought inventory was still an opportunity for us to continue to improve our processes. And frankly, that's what we've seen.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

We've had a great team working really hard at improving to get to a better sustainable rate that just happens to be lower. Yes.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

I would say that what you saw in the Q4 is the byproduct of multiple quarters of focus. And thankfully, for free cash flow purposes, that all came together and lined up in the Q4. I would say there's nothing anomalistic about that. We still know we need inventory to support the business and to support our high single digit growth outlook. So that's not to say that the dollars are fixed by any means, but certainly we're at an optimum level as we exit the year.

[Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co]

Very good. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Nathan Jones with Stifel. Please go ahead.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Nathan. I wanted to start off with a question just a question about the cadence of revenue through 2024. You did see revenue peak in the 2nd quarter. Sequentially, it was down in the 3rd quarter Q4.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

I'm just hoping to get some color around what the dynamics were there, if customers were buying some inventory or something in the Q2 or there were projects shipments in the Q2 or whether it was bad in the Q4 or just anything that would help us set the bar for what 2020 that cadence through 2025 might look like?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Nathan, yes. So thanks for pointing out how we've always pointed out that the business can be uneven from quarter to quarter or from year to year. In that particular quarter, you may recall we talked about having a bit of a deeper dive into our backlog than we traditionally have seen in most quarters, which is why we did caution to not just take that run rate for the rest of the year. So excuse me. I'm not strategically losing my voice now, but I'm going to turn to Bob.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So I would say the only really quarter that had if you're talking absolute dollars, Nathan, the only quarter that had some noise in it would have been the 2nd quarter, as Ken mentioned to. I would say everything else is more of the general trend and unevenness that Ken alluded to. If you're talking about rates of growth change, I would say the biggest impact on the second half is just having lapped an anniversary to more robust increase last year. So by just basic math, the rate of growth slows.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

I would just tell you that on a go forward basis over our strategic planning horizon, we're still laser focused in that high single digit growth with the reality that there'll be noise quarter to quarter year to year.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Yes. No, I was talking about the absolute dollars of revenue. So the 2Q number is a little bit elevated because you're taking down some backlog. That's probably just around supply chain improvements.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

I guess I

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

had one on Smart Cover. Just when I look at this from a high level, you guys don't sell sewer pumps. Why couldn't the sewer pump manufacturer just put something on the sewer pump that would do this kind of monitoring? I guess the question there is why does SmartCover have the right to have 50% market share in that kind of business? Why couldn't a competitor, somebody like a sewer pump manufacturer, lift station manufacturer, put something similar on that would have them closer to the customer and maybe give them an advantage over a business like SmartCover?

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So I'll start with, I think the underlying assumption to that question is that somehow we don't play in the collection network today or the sewer system network today and that's just not true. Certainly across Ceronex, Telog, ATI, Eskam, more recent acquisitions, there is certainly a presence in collection systems already. So this is not a fairway reach where we're reaching over to play in a space that we don't already play in. So there's a presence there already today.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

I would say specific to Smart Cover and the sewer line aspect of that, essentially what we're doing here is monitoring at the manhole. So call it depth and level sensing and flow sensing from the manhole to essentially produce analytics to drive those four outcomes that we mentioned in the earnings release. That being prevention of spills, optimize cleaning, predict infiltration and inflow as well as then monitor toxic gases. So I would say, I'm not sure that other people can't do it. I could just tell you that after 20 years in the marketplace, SmartCover has done it best.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

And that's why this is the most attractive asset in terms of expanding our presence in the collection network. And we're super excited about the ability to leverage that technology to in large part a similar decision maker at the North American utilities that we've already participated for a very long time with. This is the definition of a near adjacency that brings greater scope and scale to not only our hardware solutions, but our software solutions to integrate as a critical data analytics and solution provider to utilities in North America and the rest of the world.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

And if

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

I could add to that Nathan, compared to the people that you're referencing, which of course we spent a lot of time understanding who's in the space and who could be, no one will have the opportunity with our core competency around communications and software to be able to build on this the way that we already have with our Beacon portfolio and AMI and what we've done with radar and the other software and communications products and services we already have.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

And while we're certainly talking a

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

lot about sewer monitoring, there's

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

an sorry, I was just going to say, I just want to make sure we didn't leave out of that answer, was very focused on sewer line monitoring. There's a big part of this business that's at the lift station. And again, similar to my earlier answer, we already play at the lift station in many respects in those same technologies. And so it's absolutely a perfect marriage between the sewer line and lift station monitoring to collectively address not just the sewer, but the full collection system.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Thanks for that. I guess one final one, high single digit EBITDA margins, obviously, it's a pretty small business at the moment, And you talked about investing for growth and things like that. This would seem like a business that at scale should have significantly higher margins than where it is today. Maybe if you look at, don't know how long you want to look out, 5 or 10 years, where you think the margins for this business could get to?

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

Yes. I mean, so you hit the nail on the head at acquisition here. It is an EBITDA margin profile less than our core. I would say in large part, the strategy under XPV's ownership to date was to position for growth. And so there's been a heavier investment in SEA and that's why we talk about in the script on a go forward basis, whereas we've been leveraging SEA or levering SEA over time.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

There's probably a temporary step back here in 2025 as we bring in this $35,000,000 of revenue with higher than up line average SEA. But we think that through kind of the growth synergies and bringing our channel to bear, we can take what's already a great organically growing business in the double digit range and augment that and make it grow faster. And similarly, as Ken alluded to, we can bring to bear larger corporate functions, whether it's around supply chain, engineering costs down and other things to essentially increase the profitability. So as we look out, we certainly think this is a business that has a well above line average EBITDA margins compared to where we operate on the core business today.

[Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Awesome. Thanks for taking my questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. We'll move to our next question from Scott Graham with Seaport Research Partners. Please go ahead, Scott. Your line is open.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

Yes. Hi. Good morning. I wanted to understand a little bit more about how you're deploying backlog. I know you said you had a little bit extra juice in the Q2 of last year because of some backlog deployment.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

I'm just wondering, as you look at sort of your orders and excluding the Q2, your backlog and how that ran through what that dynamic was. Are you seeing any sort of unevenness? Are there an unusually higher number of either faster than expected, slower than expected deployments? Or has that been kind of fairly normal for you, again, away from that 2Q?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. Hi, Scott. So, with 50,000 utilities of various scales and sizes, it's always difficult from 1 quarter to the next or 1 year to the next to really predict what that replacement cycle can be, which is why we're always feeling like reminding people of the unevenness is the prudent thing to do. So what we're seeing in terms of a backlog and how order rates are flowing through, I would say, is very normal. And again, it's not like we're digesting big chunks and trying to get in another big chunk with 45,000 small utilities, 4,500 mediums, 500 larges, it just kind of flows in, in what I would call a normalized uneven but exciting pattern.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

Understood. Thank you. Now I'm sure your customers, they've obviously had ample time to digest the results of the election. And are you hearing them just talk about any pauses in deployments or even ordering patterns? I know you said that you were pleased with your 4th quarter orders, with regard to sort of Trump 2.0 and the potential for some regulatory rollbacks?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So we're not hearing any change in tone at all. So keeping in mind that 75% of our revenue sells directly. We talk directly to customers and we get a feel for that dynamic probably sooner than most people. I've recently been with our distributors who are all feeling as excited about next year as they've been about previous years in the out phases.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

So I'm very confident that if there were discussions or talks about utilities pulling back, we would be the first to know.

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

I think if your question Scott is specific to a pause or a temporary slowdown in government funding or infrastructure spend. If you listen to anything we've talked about over the last 3 years about a reliance on infrastructure money, it's just not there in the metering space, quite frankly. And so if that's the question angle here, I would say, certainly historically, we've seen very little benefit from that money flowing to the market and a pause wouldn't necessarily have any immediate impact on us.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

Yes. No, I mean, I'm talking about regulations perhaps more broadly, not necessarily the infrastructure related. But thank you for that. I just have one more question in strategic relative to Smart Cover. Is there an opportunity to take your sort of digital product line and the competencies there and the advantages there to Smart Cover or vice versa?

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

And by extension, is there can you start to sell maybe more like a larger solution this year under contract that you do with your AMI like you do with your AMI?

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

Yes. So this is one of the reasons last year we started talking about the Blue Edge portfolio because, yes, whether that's all in one package or whether that's a utility that plans out the next 3 to 5 years on how they want to implement their technologies and manage their budgets, we clearly see the opportunity to bundle sell even if that bundle isn't immediate. Again, we think about our utility customers in 5, 10, 20 year cycles. So this fits squarely in the ability to sell more to customers we already sell to. And your question on the software and the things that we can do, one of the things we like about SmartCovers, they're already a really strong company that just needs to grow, as we talked about.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

So it isn't it's in no way a fixer upper. So it's got a strong management team. It's been run well. And it's just, as we talked about, a bit subscale. So I think we can help that with our cross sales leverage.

[Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO at Badger Meter]

I think we can enable that with some operational improvements. And I think we're really excited about it, as I'm sure you can tell from the commentary and everything that goes with it. But being able to pick up both, as Bob pointed out, sewer line monitoring and lift station enhancements in one transaction was really attractive to us.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

Thank you for all that. I appreciate it. If I can just sneak this last one in. Do you have a view on whether this will be modestly accretive, dilutive to earnings this year?

[Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO at Badger Meter]

So in the short term, when you factor in the opportunity cost on the interest, we're saying for 2025, it is EPS dilutive and that it turns to accretion in year 2. And that's really where we're at.

[Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners]

Very good. Thanks a lot.

[Operator]

Thank you. We have no further questions. So I'll pass you back to Karen Bauer for any closing comments.

[Karen Bauer, VP of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy & Treasurer at Badger Meter]

Great. Thanks, operator. Bob referenced this earlier, but I did want to call your attention to the slide in the appendix where you'll find the historic primary working capital recast for the pro form a balance sheet reclassification we did on the current portion of deferred revenue. So we've reclassified this data element from accounts payable to other current liabilities beginning in Q4, 2024 and going forward. So as you can see on the slide, while the general trajectory of PwC improvement remains, there is a slight difference in absolute PwC as a percent of sales as noted on those charts in the appendix.

[Karen Bauer, VP of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy & Treasurer at Badger Meter]

So this reclassification does not change in any way cash from operations or free cash flow. And then in closing, thanks for joining our call today. For your planning purposes, our Q1 2025 call and my last at the helm of IR here at Badger Meter with my retirement in early May is tentatively scheduled for April 17. Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions you might have. Have a great day.

[Operator]

Thank you. This concludes today's call. Thank you very much for joining. You may now disconnect your line.

Participants

Executives

• Karen Bauer, VP of Investor Relations, Corporate Strategy & Treasurer
• Kenneth Bockhorst, Chairman, President & CEO
• Robert Wrocklage, Senior VP & CFO

Analysts

• Andrew Krill, Vice President at Deutsche Bank
• Robert Mason, Senior Research Analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co
• Nathan Jones, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp
• Scott Graham, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Seaport Research Partners