NASDAQ:CARL Carlsmed Q4 2025 Earnings Report $15.23 -0.11 (-0.72%) Closing price 09/15/2026 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$15.22 -0.01 (-0.07%) As of 09/15/2026 04:15 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Massive. Learn more. ProfileEarnings HistoryForecast Carlsmed EPS ResultsActual EPS-$0.32Consensus EPS -$0.43Beat/MissBeat by +$0.11One Year Ago EPSN/ACarlsmed Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$15.16 millionExpected Revenue$15.20 millionBeat/MissMissed by -$40.00 thousandYoY Revenue GrowthN/ACarlsmed Announcement DetailsQuarterQ4 2025Date2/25/2026TimeAfter Market ClosesConference Call DateWednesday, February 25, 2026Conference Call Time4:30PM ETConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Annual Report (10-K)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by Carlsmed Q4 2025 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrFebruary 25, 2026ShareShareShare This ReportLink copied to clipboard.Key Takeaways Positive Sentiment: Carlsmed reported strong top-line growth with $50.5 million revenue in 2025 (up 86% YoY) and a record Q4 of $15.2 million, while gross margins expanded to ~75%. Positive Sentiment: The company completed an IPO in July 2025 raising over $100 million and ended the year with $109.9 million in cash and investments, giving it near-term financial flexibility (debt outstanding: $15.6M). Negative Sentiment: Despite revenue growth, Carlsmed remains unprofitable — GAAP net loss was $29.6 million in 2025 with adjusted EBITDA negative $28.4 million and $29 million cash used in operations, reflecting rising operating expenses. Positive Sentiment: Operational execution improved materially: production lead times shortened to 6 business days (from 20 a year earlier) and manufacturing is now integrated across cervical and lumbar products, supporting scalability and margin gains. Positive Sentiment: Commercial and product momentum includes a CMS NTAP for aprevo cervical (up to $21,125 per procedure), the myaprevo launch, first-in-human bilateral and Cora cervical plate procedures, and addition of 101 new surgeon users in 2025, positioning future adoption growth. AI Generated. May Contain Errors.Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallCarlsmed Q4 202500:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2xTranscript SectionsPresentationParticipantsPresentationSkip to Participants Operator00:00:00Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Carlsmed Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference over to your first speaker today, Caroline Corner, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Caroline. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:00:26Thank you, operator. Welcome to Carlsmed's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Call. Joining me on today's call are Mike Cordonnier, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman, and Leo Greenstein, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to caution that comments made during this call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. All statements made on this call that do not relate to matters of historical fact should be considered forward-looking statements, including statements regarding the market in which Carlsmed operates, trends, expectations, and demands for Carlsmed's products, and Carlsmed's expected financial performance and position in the market. Any forward-looking statement provided during this call, including projections for future performance, is based on management's expectations as of today. Carlsmed undertakes no obligation to update these statements except as required by applicable law. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:01:17These statements are neither promises nor guarantees and are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results, performance, or achievements to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. For more detailed information, please review the cautionary notes on the earnings materials accompanying today's presentation, as well as Carlsmed's filings with the SEC, particularly the risk factors described in Carlsmed's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ending December 31, 2025. I encourage you to review all Carlsmed's filings with the SEC concerning these and other matters. These filings, along with Carlsmed's press release for fourth quarter and full year 2025 results, are available on Carlsmed's website at www.carlsmed.com under the investor section and include additional information about Carlsmed's financial results. A recording of today's call will also be available on Carlsmed's website by 5:00 P.M. Pacific Time today. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:02:11Now, I'd like to turn the call over to Mike to go over the Carlsmed 2025 business highlights. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:02:18Thank you, Caroline, and welcome everyone. 2025 was a rapid-growth year for Carlsmed, and I could not be prouder of what our team has accomplished to advance our mission of improving outcomes and decreasing the cost of healthcare for spine surgery. In July of 2025, we successfully completed our initial public offering, raising over $100 million, and we are efficiently deploying our resources towards patient-centric innovation, surgeon education, and commercial execution. In 2025, we delivered $50.5 million in revenue and 75.3% gross margins. This represents 86% year-over-year top-line growth and 151 basis points of margin expansion. In the fourth quarter, we delivered a record $15.2 million of revenue, with 61% year-over-year growth and 76.5% gross margins. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:03:22With further advancements in our digital production system, we have driven increased productivity and reduced lead times for aprevo Lumbar and our aprevo Cervical patient-specific interbody portfolio. With these recent advancements, we are now at a lead time of 6 business days. Most importantly, we continue to see evidence of favorable patient outcomes. 2-year data from a retrospective cohort study published in the Global Spine Journal showed a 74% reduction in reoperation rates among adult spinal deformity patients receiving aprevo Lumbar implants, as compared to a separately published patient cohort receiving conventional stock implants. These company highlights are the result of consistent operational excellence and commercial execution, driven by our AI-enabled digital planning and patient-specific devices, with a laser focus on what matters most: clinical outcomes. At Carlsmed, we aim to improve spine surgery through our preoperative, intraoperative, and postoperative aprevo Digital Surgery Platform. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:04:46We create AI-driven, personalized surgical plans and 3D-printed, custom-made, anatomically designed spine fusion systems. Unlike traditional one-size-fits-all approaches, real-world evidence suggests that our aprevo Platform solution has the potential to improve outcomes and reduce the number of revision surgeries. We are fundamentally changing how spine surgery is planned and executed and how patients are treated. Our digital surgery and preoperative planning capabilities were designed to enhance operational efficiency and deliver more predictable and effective patient outcomes, and we believe we have substantial market opportunity ahead. In November, we launched our next-generation myaprevo Ecosystem that seamlessly integrates mobile and web-based applications, enabling deeper integration with surgeons' preoperative and postoperative clinical workflow. Our compelling clinical outcome data and economic value proposition has provided us a robust reimbursement foundation in lumbar surgery, where we have three MS-DRG codes that cover single-level and multi-level lumbar fusion surgeries for degenerative and deformity conditions. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:06:19In October of last year, we were granted the new technology add-on payment, or NTAP, from CMS for aprevo cervical spine fusion. This NTAP provides up to $21,125 of additional reimbursement per procedure to hospitals that utilize aprevo patient-specific devices for inpatient cervical procedures. In 2025, we successfully added 101 new surgeon users on our platform, showcasing our rapid clinical adoption in a market hungry for innovation and improving outcomes. With the aprevo Lumbar adoption tracking rapidly, we launched our technology into the cervical fusion market with the aprevo Cervical in December at the Cervical Spine Research Society meeting. Cervical spine surgeries have historically been plagued by high variability in outcomes, publications suggest these are prominent in patients with poor bone quality, long construct fusions, and deformity. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:07:33About a third of cervical spine fusion patients have osteoporosis or osteopenia, or soft bone. We're deeply focused on evaluating how aprevo may benefit this patient population with osteoporosis and osteopenia, where it's challenging to deliver predictable outcomes. I'm deeply encouraged by the strong market traction in the early days of this launch. Operational excellence is the foundation of our rapidly scaling personalized surgery business. We've achieved another business milestone for our customers by reducing lead times by 25%, with production timelines now at just 6 business days, compared with 8 business days in Q4 of last year and 20 days we saw a year prior. This milestone represents the final phase of our operational excellence initiative and positions us to scale meaningfully as we drive further market penetration. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:08:38Of note, our manufacturing is now a fully integrated process that spans both cervical and lumbar products on the same production line. The combination of positive patient outcome data, operational excellence, and expanding surgeon adoption across both lumbar and cervical indications reinforce our position as a true innovation leader in spine surgery. I'd like to walk you through our areas of strategic focus and some recent highlights, and how our achievements position us to continue the durable, high-quality growth we've demonstrated to date. Our first area of focus is patient-centric innovation. This month, we announced the first in human bilateral posterior aprevo procedure that was performed at the University of Colorado. This FDA-cleared breakthrough technology allows the surgeon to address degenerative disease conditions posteriorly with maximal bone to implant coverage through a minimally invasive surgical approach. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:09:46The bilateral approach benefits from the same planning as the transforaminal approach, while effectively doubling the bone to implant contact area. We have commenced the limited market evaluation of this new procedure, are on track for a launch in the second half of 2026. This month, we also announced the introduction of the Cora personalized fixation portfolio and the first-in-human personalized Cora cervical plate procedure performed at UCSF. The FDA 510(k)-cleared Cora cervical plates are fully personalized to the patient's anatomy to provide harmonious plating fixation for the aprevo cervical interbody. The Cora cervical plates are digitally designed using our proprietary AI-enabled planning system to optimize fixation to maintain the anatomical correction provided in the aprevo preop planning platform. The Cora plates are available in a monoblock multi-level plate configuration, as well as segmental plating configurations for short and long construct cervical fusions. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:11:03We anticipate a 2nd half of 2026 launch for the Cora cervical plating portfolio to further support the personalization of cervical spine surgery. Our 2nd area of strategic focus is surgeon education. We've expanded our medical education team to meet the accelerating demand for aprevo lumbar and the aprevo cervical. We continue to see strong interest and adoption from early to mid-career surgeons who are seeking to implement digital surgical workflows in their practice as they seek to increase predictability and improve patient outcomes. For example, our 2nd Annual Carlsmed Residents and Fellows course, which will be held in Q2 at Columbia University, is fully enrolled months in advance of the course. We're really excited about our funnel of training, which gives us confidence that we're onboarding the next generation of aprevo surgeon users, who will support our efforts to drive adoption and increase procedure penetration. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:12:07The third area is commercial execution. In the fourth quarter, we continued with our robust cadence of surgeon additions and ended the year with 101 new fully trained surgeons, each having performed one or more aprevo procedures in 2025. During 2025, with further investments in our commercial footprint, we doubled our sales regions in the U.S., with our direct sales team partnering with more than 100 contracted sales agents to provide a high level of service to our customers. Looking forward to 2026, we're committed to continuing our momentum and delivering high-quality, sustainable growth for personalized spine surgery. I'm very excited about the year ahead of us. I'd like to express my personal gratitude to our shareholders, team members, and surgeon users for their unwavering support of our mission to revolutionize patient care. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:13:06With that, I'll turn it over to Leo, who will review our financial performance. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:13:12Thank you, Mike. Good afternoon, everyone. I'll begin today with fourth quarter 2025 P&L highlights. Revenue for the fourth quarter of 2025 was $15.2 million, compared with revenue of $9.4 million in Q4 2024. Our 61% year-over-year quarterly revenue growth was driven by continued expansion of our total surgeon users and utilization rates. Our average revenue per procedure was consistent between these two periods as it was for the full year. Our revenue performance in the fourth quarter and for the full year of 2025 remains driven by growth in aprevo procedure volumes. Gross margins were 76.5% for the fourth quarter of 2025 and 74.7% in the fourth quarter of 2024. This year-over-year improvement was primarily driven by lower contract manufacturing costs and various case design internal efficiencies. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:14:20As we previously discussed, we made investments last quarter as part of our supply chain productivity initiatives. This yielded a production lead time reduction from 8 business days in Q3 to our current 6 business days, as measured from the time of the surgeon's approval of the digital surgical plan to aprevo kit delivery to the OR. Total operating expenses were $20.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2025. This compared with $11.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. R&D expense was $5.3 million this quarter, compared with $3 million in Q4 2024. This increase was primarily due to higher personnel costs to advance our patient-centric product development priorities and AI-enabled initiatives for our surgical planning processes. Sales and marketing expenses were $10.8 million this quarter, compared with $6.4 million in Q4 2024. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:15:25This increase was substantially driven by increased sales headcount to drive our commercial execution strategy and stock-based compensation, and as part of our revenue growth, variable commissions to our sales team and independent sales agents, as well as other variable costs. General administrative expenses was $4.9 million this quarter, compared with $2.3 million in Q4 2024. The increase was driven by professional services for corporate legal, customary intellectual property matters, and personnel additions, as well as compliance and other costs as a publicly traded company. Our GAAP net loss was $8.6 million this quarter and was $4.7 million net loss in Q4 of 2024. EBITDA, adjusted for stock-based compensation, was a negative $8.4 million this quarter, compared to a negative $4.6 million in Q4 2024. I'll now turn to our full year 2025 results. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:16:36Revenue for 2025 was $50.5 million, compared with revenue of $27.2 million in 2024, representing 86% year-over-year growth. Gross margins were 75.3% for 2025 and 73.8% in 2024. Total operating expenses were $68.6 million for 2025, compared with $44.2 million in 2024. Our GAAP net loss was $29.6 million for 2025 and was a $24.3 million net loss in 2024. EBITDA, adjusted for stock-based compensation, was a negative $28.4 million for 2025, compared to a negative $23.7 million in 2024. We anticipate continued improvement in adjusted EBITDA over the coming years, driven by revenue growth and increased operating leverage across our expense base. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:17:44As we scale, expanding contribution margins enabled by our capital-light, digital-first model, are expected to support our path toward cash flow breakeven. Moving to our balance sheet. Our cash and investments at December 31, 2025 totaled $109.9 million. Outstanding principal under our $50 million debt facility remains at $15.6 million. While we have no current plans to make additional draws ahead of its October 2030 maturity, this facility provides low-cost, non-dilutive standby capital and supports general corporate flexibility. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:18:30Total liabilities as of December 31, 2025, were $31.3 million, of which $15.6 million relates to this debt facility. Our cash used in operating activities was $29 million in 2025. This compares to $25.5 million of cash used in operating activities in 2024. With our highly differentiated business model as the only pure play personalized surgery company, our balance sheet is in a solid position to drive revenue growth and expansion of our surgical planning and manufacturing capacities over the coming years. I'd now like to turn to our guidance for 2026. Our 2026 revenue range is expected to be $70 million-$75 million, representing an annual growth of 44% at the midpoint of the range over the full year 2025. I will now turn the call over to the operator for questions. Operator? Operator00:19:40Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. In the interest of time, we ask that you please limit your questions to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from David Roman of Goldman Sachs. Your line is open. Jenny RabinowitzGlobal Investment Research Analyst at Goldman Sachs00:20:12Hey, this is Jenny Rabinowitz on for David. Thanks so much for taking the question. I was hoping you guys could talk a little bit more about, like, the 2 new indications or platforms you announced in the quarter, the bilateral approach and Cora. How are you thinking about, like, the part of the market that this opens up for you? Is it new procedures, new surgeons? How are you thinking about investment in these while you're also working on this cervical launch? Thanks so much. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:20:35Hey, Jenny, appreciate the question. I'll address both of these. We're really excited about our expansion of our personalized surgery portfolio. First, for the bilateral aprevo lumbar, we see this as continuing to accelerate our adoption of the posterior surgery market. When we look at the totality of the lumbar fusion market, it's about 8% of the market, and this was really driven by our early surgeon adopters in the posterior surgery portion of the market. Early indications of this procedure are very positive. Now when we think about Cora, this is really our first foray outside of the disc space, and this was part of our original cervical portfolio plan, where we can now add a personalization to the cervical plate, which gives a further personalization of the procedure. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:21:47As we think about both of these, early days, very positive. In the back half of the year, we'll have the full commercial launch. Operator00:22:02Thank you. Our next question comes from Richard Newitter of Truist Securities. Your line is open. Felipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist Securities00:22:16Hi, this is Felipe, on for Rich. Just I guess on cervical, could you help us understand what the contribution was in the quarter and maybe how you're thinking about the ramp, in 2026? Then I just have a follow-up. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:22:33Yeah. We're just weeks into the launch, and we've had really positive response to the cervical portfolio. As we did our clinical evaluation in the back half of last year and then commenced our full launch in December, you know, we've seen great adoption of the procedure, both from a surgeon perspective, as well as from a hospital adoption with the New Technology Add-on Payment. We anticipate, you know, cervical to continue to ramp per our plan, and particularly with the addition of the personalized Cora plates. We're very optimistic about this being a significant part of our portfolio on a go-forward basis. Felipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist Securities00:23:28Are you able to give any color on your, I guess, existing lumbar users and just adoption in cervical thus far? I guess, like, what is utilization looking like for cervical for those existing users? Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:23:45We've been able to train about 10% of our total users on cervical in a very short period of time, this gives us a lot of confidence in our existing aprevo lumbar users, continuing the adoption curve. As we look at both the surgeon training as well as the, you know, hospital approval process, you know, we're getting really great traction with the cervical launch. Operator00:24:23Thank you. Our next question comes from Travis Steed of Bank of America. Your line is open. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:24:34Hey, everybody. Congrats on all the progress. I guess I'll ask on the 26 guidance. That kind of implies about $22 million of growth. You did, like, $23.5 million and $25 million. Just want to make sure I understand kind of the building blocks in 26, what you're assuming for an new surgeon adds versus kind of utilization growth and any more detail on kind of cervical would be helpful as well. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:25:01Hey, Travis. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the question. You know, ultimately, when we think about our guidance for this year, you know, we want to make sure as a newly public company, you know, that we're prudent with our guidance. As we think about our training program as well as, you know, continued adoption on both the lumbar and cervical platform, here in the early days, and even early days this year, you know, we're seeing, you know, good momentum and gives us a lot of confidence in the guidance that we put out. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:25:40That makes sense. Not as big of a deal, but, like, the lead time, like, you've made a lot of progress on lead time, you said down six days, and every quarter it gets shorter. Just, like, how is that impacting the business, do you think, in terms of willingness of new surgeons to adopt and maybe even, you know, reorder, just because the lead time is getting less? Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:26:04Yeah, it's been meaningful. You know, we really see 6 days as kind of the end all be all. With this, just hitting now in February, you know, it really gives exactly like you said, new surgeon adoption, some opportunities for acceleration there, as well as ensuring that, you know, if there are emergent cases inside of a trained surgeon's practice, that we have the opportunity to address those. That's been our magic target to get to and, you know, really proud of the team that we're able to deliver on that, in February. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:26:44Great. Thanks a lot. Operator00:26:46Thank you. Our next question comes from Ryan Zimmerman of BTIG. Your line is open. Ryan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIG00:26:57Good afternoon, congrats on your progress, guys. Just curious, Leo, excuse me, on ASPs, as we move into 2026, I imagine there's some downward pressure on cervical or from the cervical launch on, you know, broader ASPs, maybe the contribution is smaller, so it's, you know, maybe immaterial. I'm wondering if you could, you know, give us your thoughts on that. You know, I'll just ask the second question upfront. Your G&A is running a little lower than I think, you know, I expected at this point. Does that kind of carry into 2026? You know, any high-level thoughts you have on operating expense growth in 2026 is appreciated. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:27:41Yeah, great. Hey, Ryan, this is Leo. Maybe in order of your questions here, you know, with regard to ARP, we've seen, you know, fairly stable ARP in lumbar, and we foresee that to be the trend going forward. With respect to cervical, as we've discussed in the past, different reimbursement profile, we have our ARP and pricing adjusted accordingly. The mix that we see in 2026, largely driven by lumbar, will ultimately result in a slightly lower ARP in 2026 relative to 2025, but we certainly see it in the mid, the high $20K with regard to the procedural mix between cervical and lumbar. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:28:35With regard to G&A, we clearly want to maintain sufficient investment in the infrastructure to support a public company and ensure that we are providing necessary compliance and other support functions for the organization. Clearly, our focus will be investment within R&D and certainly within sales and marketing to drive ongoing revenue growth. In 2026, as I see this shaping up, continued operating leverage from the sales and marketing line and that investment made in 2025 that we will continue to invest in 2026, will start to yield some improving benefits from those investments as a % of revenue, and ensuring that we are getting the leverage that we have intended for sales and marketing. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:29:30G&A will continue to decline as a % of revenue by virtue of, you know, most of these costs being fixed that can support a growing organization. Ryan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIG00:29:40Thank you. Operator00:29:43Thank you. As a reminder, if you have a question, please press star one one. Our next question comes from Matthew O'Brien of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:29:56Hi, Mike. Hi, Leo. This is Anna here from Matt. Thanks for taking the questions. I wanted to ask a follow-up to Travis's question on the turnaround time, and I was just wondering if you could maybe elaborate a bit on how impactful that was to gross margin in the quarter and how we should think about margins in 2026 based on this reduced lead time. Thanks. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:30:20So, you know, the lead time reduction really is driving overall manufacturing capacity and our ability to support revenue growth as we see it over the next coming years. With regard to how that shaped up in the fourth quarter and the gross margin improvement that we've seen in the fourth quarter relative to Q3. As we talked about in the past, the investment within the DPS system, the digital production system, is continuing to yield ongoing efficiencies there that both drive efficiencies within the contract manufacturing and materials costs, as well as internal costs for case design. We see, you know, gross margins between lumbar and cervical being maintained in that mid-70s range into 2026. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:31:08That can certainly provide that ongoing leverage and contribution margin to ultimately, in combination with the OPEX leverage that I just mentioned, converge to a clear pathway to pro-profitability. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:31:25Excellent. Just great to see the momentum on the new surgeons added in the quarter. It seems to be a company record by our math in Q4. Just backing to the utilization, it seems like that might have been roughly flat sequentially. Just wondering when we should start to see a real meaningful uptick there, and see, you know, deeper utilization within existing accounts. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:31:52Yeah, and I think that's a, that's a great question. We're really proud of our, you know, surgeon education program that really accelerated the new surgeon users. You know, we continue to make strategic investments there in rolling out the programs, which, with a, you know, a large portion of our surgeon user base being relatively new to the platform, you know, we'll continue to invest in, you know, training and support of those accounts, to see the incremental procedure volume utilization increase over the totality of our surgeon user base. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:32:42Great. Thanks for the color. Operator00:32:45Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session in today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.Read moreParticipantsExecutivesCaroline CornerInvestor RelationsMichael CordonnierCEO and ChairmanLeo GreensteinCFOAnalystsJenny RabinowitzGlobal Investment Research Analyst at Goldman SachsFelipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist SecuritiesTravis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of AmericaRyan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIGAnalyst at Piper SandlerPowered by Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Annual report(10-K) Carlsmed Earnings HeadlinesCarlsmed Files Patent Infringement Lawsuit Against DeGen Medical Over Spine Surgery TechnologiesSeptember 15 at 7:11 PM | quiverquant.comQCarlsmed, Inc. Files Patent Infringement Lawsuit against DeGen MedicalSeptember 15 at 7:00 PM | globenewswire.comThis Microcap Is Taking On the Energy Industry’s Dirtiest ProblemsA small company has developed water-based cleaning technologies aimed at some of heavy industry's toughest problems, from paraffin-clogged pipelines to hardened fuel inside tanker ships. In a recent test, its marine formulation dissolved solidified heavy fuel oil almost instantly, tackling one of the toughest substances to remove. The company targets oil and gas, shipping and environmental remediation, each a multibillion-dollar industry, and is now moving from testing toward commercial adoption. | Wall Street Logic (Ad)Carlsmed Promotes Jeff Bertolini To Chief Operating OfficerSeptember 9, 2026 | rttnews.comCarlsmed appoints Jeff Bertolini as new COOSeptember 8, 2026 | tipranks.comCarlsmed, Inc. Announces Chief Operating Officer AppointmentSeptember 8, 2026 | globenewswire.comSee More Carlsmed Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Carlsmed? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Carlsmed and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About CarlsmedCarlsmed (NASDAQ:CARL) is a medical technology company focused on improving outcomes for patients undergoing complex spinal surgery. The company develops personalized implants and surgical solutions designed to help spine surgeons address the anatomical needs of individual patients, particularly those with adult spinal deformity and other challenging spinal conditions. Its principal product platform, aprevo, uses patient-specific planning and implant design to support spinal reconstruction procedures. The platform includes customized interbody and posterior implants that are manufactured using three-dimensional printing and are intended to help surgeons restore spinal alignment and achieve their procedural objectives. Carlsmed was founded in 2015 and is headquartered in Carlsbad, California. The company primarily serves spine surgeons, hospitals and patients in the United States, with its products used in specialized spinal procedures. Carlsmed works with healthcare providers to incorporate patient-specific imaging, surgical planning and customized implants into the treatment process.View Carlsmed ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Latest Articles MarketBeat's Most Downgraded Stocks in Q3: 2 Look Cheap, 1 Looks RiskyCould Dave & Buster’s Capitulation Signal the Bottom Is Finally In?Navan's Strong Quarter Meets an AI Spending Reality Check3 Defense Stocks Riding the High-Energy Laser BoomLightPath’s Defense Pivot Could Send Shares Higher3 Dividend Kings to Buy While They’re Still Beaten DownAnalysts Are Punting Their Calls Into the Next Quarter After Adobe’s Mixed Earnings Upcoming Earnings Cintas (9/23/2026)Costco Wholesale (9/24/2026)Micron Technology (9/30/2026)NIKE (10/1/2026)Accenture (10/1/2026)PepsiCo (10/8/2026)Delta Air Lines (10/8/2026)America Movil (10/13/2026)BlackRock (10/13/2026)Citigroup (10/13/2026) Unlock superior investment research and tools. 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PresentationSkip to Participants Operator00:00:00Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Carlsmed Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference over to your first speaker today, Caroline Corner, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Caroline. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:00:26Thank you, operator. Welcome to Carlsmed's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Call. Joining me on today's call are Mike Cordonnier, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman, and Leo Greenstein, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to caution that comments made during this call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. All statements made on this call that do not relate to matters of historical fact should be considered forward-looking statements, including statements regarding the market in which Carlsmed operates, trends, expectations, and demands for Carlsmed's products, and Carlsmed's expected financial performance and position in the market. Any forward-looking statement provided during this call, including projections for future performance, is based on management's expectations as of today. Carlsmed undertakes no obligation to update these statements except as required by applicable law. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:01:17These statements are neither promises nor guarantees and are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results, performance, or achievements to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. For more detailed information, please review the cautionary notes on the earnings materials accompanying today's presentation, as well as Carlsmed's filings with the SEC, particularly the risk factors described in Carlsmed's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ending December 31, 2025. I encourage you to review all Carlsmed's filings with the SEC concerning these and other matters. These filings, along with Carlsmed's press release for fourth quarter and full year 2025 results, are available on Carlsmed's website at www.carlsmed.com under the investor section and include additional information about Carlsmed's financial results. A recording of today's call will also be available on Carlsmed's website by 5:00 P.M. Pacific Time today. Caroline CornerInvestor Relations at Carlsmed00:02:11Now, I'd like to turn the call over to Mike to go over the Carlsmed 2025 business highlights. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:02:18Thank you, Caroline, and welcome everyone. 2025 was a rapid-growth year for Carlsmed, and I could not be prouder of what our team has accomplished to advance our mission of improving outcomes and decreasing the cost of healthcare for spine surgery. In July of 2025, we successfully completed our initial public offering, raising over $100 million, and we are efficiently deploying our resources towards patient-centric innovation, surgeon education, and commercial execution. In 2025, we delivered $50.5 million in revenue and 75.3% gross margins. This represents 86% year-over-year top-line growth and 151 basis points of margin expansion. In the fourth quarter, we delivered a record $15.2 million of revenue, with 61% year-over-year growth and 76.5% gross margins. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:03:22With further advancements in our digital production system, we have driven increased productivity and reduced lead times for aprevo Lumbar and our aprevo Cervical patient-specific interbody portfolio. With these recent advancements, we are now at a lead time of 6 business days. Most importantly, we continue to see evidence of favorable patient outcomes. 2-year data from a retrospective cohort study published in the Global Spine Journal showed a 74% reduction in reoperation rates among adult spinal deformity patients receiving aprevo Lumbar implants, as compared to a separately published patient cohort receiving conventional stock implants. These company highlights are the result of consistent operational excellence and commercial execution, driven by our AI-enabled digital planning and patient-specific devices, with a laser focus on what matters most: clinical outcomes. At Carlsmed, we aim to improve spine surgery through our preoperative, intraoperative, and postoperative aprevo Digital Surgery Platform. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:04:46We create AI-driven, personalized surgical plans and 3D-printed, custom-made, anatomically designed spine fusion systems. Unlike traditional one-size-fits-all approaches, real-world evidence suggests that our aprevo Platform solution has the potential to improve outcomes and reduce the number of revision surgeries. We are fundamentally changing how spine surgery is planned and executed and how patients are treated. Our digital surgery and preoperative planning capabilities were designed to enhance operational efficiency and deliver more predictable and effective patient outcomes, and we believe we have substantial market opportunity ahead. In November, we launched our next-generation myaprevo Ecosystem that seamlessly integrates mobile and web-based applications, enabling deeper integration with surgeons' preoperative and postoperative clinical workflow. Our compelling clinical outcome data and economic value proposition has provided us a robust reimbursement foundation in lumbar surgery, where we have three MS-DRG codes that cover single-level and multi-level lumbar fusion surgeries for degenerative and deformity conditions. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:06:19In October of last year, we were granted the new technology add-on payment, or NTAP, from CMS for aprevo cervical spine fusion. This NTAP provides up to $21,125 of additional reimbursement per procedure to hospitals that utilize aprevo patient-specific devices for inpatient cervical procedures. In 2025, we successfully added 101 new surgeon users on our platform, showcasing our rapid clinical adoption in a market hungry for innovation and improving outcomes. With the aprevo Lumbar adoption tracking rapidly, we launched our technology into the cervical fusion market with the aprevo Cervical in December at the Cervical Spine Research Society meeting. Cervical spine surgeries have historically been plagued by high variability in outcomes, publications suggest these are prominent in patients with poor bone quality, long construct fusions, and deformity. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:07:33About a third of cervical spine fusion patients have osteoporosis or osteopenia, or soft bone. We're deeply focused on evaluating how aprevo may benefit this patient population with osteoporosis and osteopenia, where it's challenging to deliver predictable outcomes. I'm deeply encouraged by the strong market traction in the early days of this launch. Operational excellence is the foundation of our rapidly scaling personalized surgery business. We've achieved another business milestone for our customers by reducing lead times by 25%, with production timelines now at just 6 business days, compared with 8 business days in Q4 of last year and 20 days we saw a year prior. This milestone represents the final phase of our operational excellence initiative and positions us to scale meaningfully as we drive further market penetration. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:08:38Of note, our manufacturing is now a fully integrated process that spans both cervical and lumbar products on the same production line. The combination of positive patient outcome data, operational excellence, and expanding surgeon adoption across both lumbar and cervical indications reinforce our position as a true innovation leader in spine surgery. I'd like to walk you through our areas of strategic focus and some recent highlights, and how our achievements position us to continue the durable, high-quality growth we've demonstrated to date. Our first area of focus is patient-centric innovation. This month, we announced the first in human bilateral posterior aprevo procedure that was performed at the University of Colorado. This FDA-cleared breakthrough technology allows the surgeon to address degenerative disease conditions posteriorly with maximal bone to implant coverage through a minimally invasive surgical approach. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:09:46The bilateral approach benefits from the same planning as the transforaminal approach, while effectively doubling the bone to implant contact area. We have commenced the limited market evaluation of this new procedure, are on track for a launch in the second half of 2026. This month, we also announced the introduction of the Cora personalized fixation portfolio and the first-in-human personalized Cora cervical plate procedure performed at UCSF. The FDA 510(k)-cleared Cora cervical plates are fully personalized to the patient's anatomy to provide harmonious plating fixation for the aprevo cervical interbody. The Cora cervical plates are digitally designed using our proprietary AI-enabled planning system to optimize fixation to maintain the anatomical correction provided in the aprevo preop planning platform. The Cora plates are available in a monoblock multi-level plate configuration, as well as segmental plating configurations for short and long construct cervical fusions. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:11:03We anticipate a 2nd half of 2026 launch for the Cora cervical plating portfolio to further support the personalization of cervical spine surgery. Our 2nd area of strategic focus is surgeon education. We've expanded our medical education team to meet the accelerating demand for aprevo lumbar and the aprevo cervical. We continue to see strong interest and adoption from early to mid-career surgeons who are seeking to implement digital surgical workflows in their practice as they seek to increase predictability and improve patient outcomes. For example, our 2nd Annual Carlsmed Residents and Fellows course, which will be held in Q2 at Columbia University, is fully enrolled months in advance of the course. We're really excited about our funnel of training, which gives us confidence that we're onboarding the next generation of aprevo surgeon users, who will support our efforts to drive adoption and increase procedure penetration. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:12:07The third area is commercial execution. In the fourth quarter, we continued with our robust cadence of surgeon additions and ended the year with 101 new fully trained surgeons, each having performed one or more aprevo procedures in 2025. During 2025, with further investments in our commercial footprint, we doubled our sales regions in the U.S., with our direct sales team partnering with more than 100 contracted sales agents to provide a high level of service to our customers. Looking forward to 2026, we're committed to continuing our momentum and delivering high-quality, sustainable growth for personalized spine surgery. I'm very excited about the year ahead of us. I'd like to express my personal gratitude to our shareholders, team members, and surgeon users for their unwavering support of our mission to revolutionize patient care. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:13:06With that, I'll turn it over to Leo, who will review our financial performance. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:13:12Thank you, Mike. Good afternoon, everyone. I'll begin today with fourth quarter 2025 P&L highlights. Revenue for the fourth quarter of 2025 was $15.2 million, compared with revenue of $9.4 million in Q4 2024. Our 61% year-over-year quarterly revenue growth was driven by continued expansion of our total surgeon users and utilization rates. Our average revenue per procedure was consistent between these two periods as it was for the full year. Our revenue performance in the fourth quarter and for the full year of 2025 remains driven by growth in aprevo procedure volumes. Gross margins were 76.5% for the fourth quarter of 2025 and 74.7% in the fourth quarter of 2024. This year-over-year improvement was primarily driven by lower contract manufacturing costs and various case design internal efficiencies. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:14:20As we previously discussed, we made investments last quarter as part of our supply chain productivity initiatives. This yielded a production lead time reduction from 8 business days in Q3 to our current 6 business days, as measured from the time of the surgeon's approval of the digital surgical plan to aprevo kit delivery to the OR. Total operating expenses were $20.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2025. This compared with $11.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. R&D expense was $5.3 million this quarter, compared with $3 million in Q4 2024. This increase was primarily due to higher personnel costs to advance our patient-centric product development priorities and AI-enabled initiatives for our surgical planning processes. Sales and marketing expenses were $10.8 million this quarter, compared with $6.4 million in Q4 2024. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:15:25This increase was substantially driven by increased sales headcount to drive our commercial execution strategy and stock-based compensation, and as part of our revenue growth, variable commissions to our sales team and independent sales agents, as well as other variable costs. General administrative expenses was $4.9 million this quarter, compared with $2.3 million in Q4 2024. The increase was driven by professional services for corporate legal, customary intellectual property matters, and personnel additions, as well as compliance and other costs as a publicly traded company. Our GAAP net loss was $8.6 million this quarter and was $4.7 million net loss in Q4 of 2024. EBITDA, adjusted for stock-based compensation, was a negative $8.4 million this quarter, compared to a negative $4.6 million in Q4 2024. I'll now turn to our full year 2025 results. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:16:36Revenue for 2025 was $50.5 million, compared with revenue of $27.2 million in 2024, representing 86% year-over-year growth. Gross margins were 75.3% for 2025 and 73.8% in 2024. Total operating expenses were $68.6 million for 2025, compared with $44.2 million in 2024. Our GAAP net loss was $29.6 million for 2025 and was a $24.3 million net loss in 2024. EBITDA, adjusted for stock-based compensation, was a negative $28.4 million for 2025, compared to a negative $23.7 million in 2024. We anticipate continued improvement in adjusted EBITDA over the coming years, driven by revenue growth and increased operating leverage across our expense base. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:17:44As we scale, expanding contribution margins enabled by our capital-light, digital-first model, are expected to support our path toward cash flow breakeven. Moving to our balance sheet. Our cash and investments at December 31, 2025 totaled $109.9 million. Outstanding principal under our $50 million debt facility remains at $15.6 million. While we have no current plans to make additional draws ahead of its October 2030 maturity, this facility provides low-cost, non-dilutive standby capital and supports general corporate flexibility. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:18:30Total liabilities as of December 31, 2025, were $31.3 million, of which $15.6 million relates to this debt facility. Our cash used in operating activities was $29 million in 2025. This compares to $25.5 million of cash used in operating activities in 2024. With our highly differentiated business model as the only pure play personalized surgery company, our balance sheet is in a solid position to drive revenue growth and expansion of our surgical planning and manufacturing capacities over the coming years. I'd now like to turn to our guidance for 2026. Our 2026 revenue range is expected to be $70 million-$75 million, representing an annual growth of 44% at the midpoint of the range over the full year 2025. I will now turn the call over to the operator for questions. Operator? Operator00:19:40Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. In the interest of time, we ask that you please limit your questions to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from David Roman of Goldman Sachs. Your line is open. Jenny RabinowitzGlobal Investment Research Analyst at Goldman Sachs00:20:12Hey, this is Jenny Rabinowitz on for David. Thanks so much for taking the question. I was hoping you guys could talk a little bit more about, like, the 2 new indications or platforms you announced in the quarter, the bilateral approach and Cora. How are you thinking about, like, the part of the market that this opens up for you? Is it new procedures, new surgeons? How are you thinking about investment in these while you're also working on this cervical launch? Thanks so much. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:20:35Hey, Jenny, appreciate the question. I'll address both of these. We're really excited about our expansion of our personalized surgery portfolio. First, for the bilateral aprevo lumbar, we see this as continuing to accelerate our adoption of the posterior surgery market. When we look at the totality of the lumbar fusion market, it's about 8% of the market, and this was really driven by our early surgeon adopters in the posterior surgery portion of the market. Early indications of this procedure are very positive. Now when we think about Cora, this is really our first foray outside of the disc space, and this was part of our original cervical portfolio plan, where we can now add a personalization to the cervical plate, which gives a further personalization of the procedure. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:21:47As we think about both of these, early days, very positive. In the back half of the year, we'll have the full commercial launch. Operator00:22:02Thank you. Our next question comes from Richard Newitter of Truist Securities. Your line is open. Felipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist Securities00:22:16Hi, this is Felipe, on for Rich. Just I guess on cervical, could you help us understand what the contribution was in the quarter and maybe how you're thinking about the ramp, in 2026? Then I just have a follow-up. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:22:33Yeah. We're just weeks into the launch, and we've had really positive response to the cervical portfolio. As we did our clinical evaluation in the back half of last year and then commenced our full launch in December, you know, we've seen great adoption of the procedure, both from a surgeon perspective, as well as from a hospital adoption with the New Technology Add-on Payment. We anticipate, you know, cervical to continue to ramp per our plan, and particularly with the addition of the personalized Cora plates. We're very optimistic about this being a significant part of our portfolio on a go-forward basis. Felipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist Securities00:23:28Are you able to give any color on your, I guess, existing lumbar users and just adoption in cervical thus far? I guess, like, what is utilization looking like for cervical for those existing users? Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:23:45We've been able to train about 10% of our total users on cervical in a very short period of time, this gives us a lot of confidence in our existing aprevo lumbar users, continuing the adoption curve. As we look at both the surgeon training as well as the, you know, hospital approval process, you know, we're getting really great traction with the cervical launch. Operator00:24:23Thank you. Our next question comes from Travis Steed of Bank of America. Your line is open. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:24:34Hey, everybody. Congrats on all the progress. I guess I'll ask on the 26 guidance. That kind of implies about $22 million of growth. You did, like, $23.5 million and $25 million. Just want to make sure I understand kind of the building blocks in 26, what you're assuming for an new surgeon adds versus kind of utilization growth and any more detail on kind of cervical would be helpful as well. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:25:01Hey, Travis. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the question. You know, ultimately, when we think about our guidance for this year, you know, we want to make sure as a newly public company, you know, that we're prudent with our guidance. As we think about our training program as well as, you know, continued adoption on both the lumbar and cervical platform, here in the early days, and even early days this year, you know, we're seeing, you know, good momentum and gives us a lot of confidence in the guidance that we put out. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:25:40That makes sense. Not as big of a deal, but, like, the lead time, like, you've made a lot of progress on lead time, you said down six days, and every quarter it gets shorter. Just, like, how is that impacting the business, do you think, in terms of willingness of new surgeons to adopt and maybe even, you know, reorder, just because the lead time is getting less? Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:26:04Yeah, it's been meaningful. You know, we really see 6 days as kind of the end all be all. With this, just hitting now in February, you know, it really gives exactly like you said, new surgeon adoption, some opportunities for acceleration there, as well as ensuring that, you know, if there are emergent cases inside of a trained surgeon's practice, that we have the opportunity to address those. That's been our magic target to get to and, you know, really proud of the team that we're able to deliver on that, in February. Travis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of America00:26:44Great. Thanks a lot. Operator00:26:46Thank you. Our next question comes from Ryan Zimmerman of BTIG. Your line is open. Ryan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIG00:26:57Good afternoon, congrats on your progress, guys. Just curious, Leo, excuse me, on ASPs, as we move into 2026, I imagine there's some downward pressure on cervical or from the cervical launch on, you know, broader ASPs, maybe the contribution is smaller, so it's, you know, maybe immaterial. I'm wondering if you could, you know, give us your thoughts on that. You know, I'll just ask the second question upfront. Your G&A is running a little lower than I think, you know, I expected at this point. Does that kind of carry into 2026? You know, any high-level thoughts you have on operating expense growth in 2026 is appreciated. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:27:41Yeah, great. Hey, Ryan, this is Leo. Maybe in order of your questions here, you know, with regard to ARP, we've seen, you know, fairly stable ARP in lumbar, and we foresee that to be the trend going forward. With respect to cervical, as we've discussed in the past, different reimbursement profile, we have our ARP and pricing adjusted accordingly. The mix that we see in 2026, largely driven by lumbar, will ultimately result in a slightly lower ARP in 2026 relative to 2025, but we certainly see it in the mid, the high $20K with regard to the procedural mix between cervical and lumbar. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:28:35With regard to G&A, we clearly want to maintain sufficient investment in the infrastructure to support a public company and ensure that we are providing necessary compliance and other support functions for the organization. Clearly, our focus will be investment within R&D and certainly within sales and marketing to drive ongoing revenue growth. In 2026, as I see this shaping up, continued operating leverage from the sales and marketing line and that investment made in 2025 that we will continue to invest in 2026, will start to yield some improving benefits from those investments as a % of revenue, and ensuring that we are getting the leverage that we have intended for sales and marketing. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:29:30G&A will continue to decline as a % of revenue by virtue of, you know, most of these costs being fixed that can support a growing organization. Ryan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIG00:29:40Thank you. Operator00:29:43Thank you. As a reminder, if you have a question, please press star one one. Our next question comes from Matthew O'Brien of Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:29:56Hi, Mike. Hi, Leo. This is Anna here from Matt. Thanks for taking the questions. I wanted to ask a follow-up to Travis's question on the turnaround time, and I was just wondering if you could maybe elaborate a bit on how impactful that was to gross margin in the quarter and how we should think about margins in 2026 based on this reduced lead time. Thanks. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:30:20So, you know, the lead time reduction really is driving overall manufacturing capacity and our ability to support revenue growth as we see it over the next coming years. With regard to how that shaped up in the fourth quarter and the gross margin improvement that we've seen in the fourth quarter relative to Q3. As we talked about in the past, the investment within the DPS system, the digital production system, is continuing to yield ongoing efficiencies there that both drive efficiencies within the contract manufacturing and materials costs, as well as internal costs for case design. We see, you know, gross margins between lumbar and cervical being maintained in that mid-70s range into 2026. Leo GreensteinCFO at Carlsmed00:31:08That can certainly provide that ongoing leverage and contribution margin to ultimately, in combination with the OPEX leverage that I just mentioned, converge to a clear pathway to pro-profitability. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:31:25Excellent. Just great to see the momentum on the new surgeons added in the quarter. It seems to be a company record by our math in Q4. Just backing to the utilization, it seems like that might have been roughly flat sequentially. Just wondering when we should start to see a real meaningful uptick there, and see, you know, deeper utilization within existing accounts. Michael CordonnierCEO and Chairman at Carlsmed00:31:52Yeah, and I think that's a, that's a great question. We're really proud of our, you know, surgeon education program that really accelerated the new surgeon users. You know, we continue to make strategic investments there in rolling out the programs, which, with a, you know, a large portion of our surgeon user base being relatively new to the platform, you know, we'll continue to invest in, you know, training and support of those accounts, to see the incremental procedure volume utilization increase over the totality of our surgeon user base. Analyst at Piper Sandler00:32:42Great. Thanks for the color. Operator00:32:45Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session in today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.Read moreParticipantsExecutivesCaroline CornerInvestor RelationsMichael CordonnierCEO and ChairmanLeo GreensteinCFOAnalystsJenny RabinowitzGlobal Investment Research Analyst at Goldman SachsFelipe LamarSenior Equity Research Associate at Truist SecuritiesTravis SteedManaging Director in Equity Research at Bank of AmericaRyan ZimmermanManaging Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BTIGAnalyst at Piper SandlerPowered by