Toromont Industries Q3 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
October 31, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • Positive Sentiment: Strengthened balance sheet with $1.0 billion cash, an additional $453 million in available credit and a net debt-to-capitalization of negative 9%, leaving ample liquidity to support operations and investments.
  • Positive Sentiment: Order momentum and backlog are robust — Q3 bookings rose ~47% and consolidated backlog is about $1.3 billion (up 17% Y/Y), supporting near‑term revenue visibility.
  • Positive Sentiment: AVL acquisition is ramping: Hamilton is near capacity, Charlotte has begun phased production and AVL backlog (~$278M) provides multi‑quarter growth potential for the Equipment Group.
  • Negative Sentiment: Near‑term profitability is being weighed down by non‑cash purchase‑price accounting (AVL) and higher financing/operating costs — management said these items reduced EPS by roughly $0.02 year‑to‑date and net interest expense rose materially YTD.
  • Positive Sentiment: CIMCO delivered strong results with Q3 revenue up ~22%, operating income up ~19%, and backlog up 24%, driven by package orders and improving product support activity in Canada and the U.S.
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Earnings Conference Call
Toromont Industries Q3 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Good morning. Today is Friday, October 31, 2025. Welcome to the Toromont Industries Limited Third Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. Please be advised that this call is being recorded, and all lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. Your host for today will be Mr. John Doolittle, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, Mr. Doolittle.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Okay. Thank you, Joelle. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today to discuss Toromont results for the third quarter of 2025. Also on the call with me this morning is Mike McMillan, President and Chief Executive Officer. Mike and I will be referring to the presentation that is available on our website. To start, I would like to refer our listeners to slide two, which contains our advisory regarding forward-looking information and statements. After our prepared remarks, we'll be more than happy to answer questions. Let's get started and move to slide three, and I'll pass it over to you, Mike.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Great. Thanks very much, John. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. Our team delivered solid results in the third quarter, executing effectively despite persistent macroeconomic and trade challenges. We remained focused on long-term success, continuing to invest in our people and capabilities to support our customers and drive sustainable growth. Net income rose, aided by a property sale, while underlying earnings reflected growth-related investments, lower net interest income, and short-term non-cash costs from the AVL acquisition. The Equipment Group executed well with solid activity in rentals, product support, and used equipment deliveries in construction and mining. However, activity levels still reflect the economic environment, which continues to impact end customer demand. As expected, mining deliveries were lower due to the segment's inherent variability.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Revenue declined as revenue from the acquired business, along with higher rental and product support revenue, was more than offset by lower new equipment sales, which was as expected in the mining segment. Rental revenue rose, driven by a larger fleet. Product support revenue increased due to higher parts and service volumes. Operating income in the third quarter included a pre-tax gain of $13.7 million on the sale of a property. Excluding this gain, operating income was 1% lower for the quarter, given a strong competitor, which reflected market dynamics in play at that time, along with the higher expenses. CIMCO posted higher revenue and earnings, driven by good demand and disciplined execution in both Canada and the U.S. Growth in package revenue was supported by a strong order backlog, while product support activity continued to improve, aided by our growing technician workforce.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Operating income increased on higher revenue and solid execution, partially offset by lower gross margins and an unfavorable sales mix, which is lower product support revenue to total revenue and higher expenses to support activity and growth in the segment. We continue to work closely with our new partners in AVL, focusing on this promising market. Production in Hamilton has ramped up since the acquisition, supporting our healthy order backlog and demand. Hiring and development of production capacity continues. As noted in Q2, we acquired a facility in Charlotte, North Carolina, to expand capacity and to better serve the Eastern U.S. market. This facility commenced the first phase of production during the third quarter of 2025 and will ramp up throughout 2026. While the business is performing well, the bottom-line contribution on a year-to-date basis reduced EPS by approximately $0.02 per share related to various non-cash-related purchase price accounting items.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Of course, more detail is available on our financial statements and disclosures. Let's turn to slide four, our key financial highlights. Investment in non-cash working capital decreased 13% year-over-year, largely on lower inventory levels, partially offset by higher accounts receivable and accounts payable balances due to equipment delivery timing. Accounts receivable increased, mainly reflecting the addition of receivables from the recently acquired AVL operation. DSO increased by one day to 48 days. Our team continues to manage receivables aging and customer credit metrics effectively. Inventory levels declined, partly due to executed deliveries against the order backlog, inventory management initiatives, as well as lower work in process at CIMCO, reflecting project and service timing. We ended the quarter with ample liquidity, including $1 billion in cash and an additional $453 million available under existing credit facilities.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

During the quarter, we also completed the redemption of our 2025 debentures at par, as previously announced. Our net debt-to-total capitalization ratio was negative 9%. Overall, our balance sheet remains well-positioned to support operations and navigate evolving economic and business conditions. We will continue to apply operational and financial discipline as we support customer needs and evaluate future investment opportunities. Toromont targets a return on equity of 18% over the business cycle. Return on equity was slightly below this at 17.5%, reflecting slightly lower earnings and higher shareholders' equity. Return on capital employed was 23.3%, also lower year-over-year, reflecting our increased capital investment. Finally, as announced yesterday, the board of directors approved a regular quarterly dividend of $0.52 per share payable on January 5th, 2026, to shareholders of record at the close of business on December 5th, 2025.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

John, back over to you for more detailed commentary on the results.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Okay. Thank you, Mike. Let's turn to slide five for a few additional comments on the consolidated numbers. As Mike noted, profitability improved in the third quarter of 2025 compared to last year and compared to the first half of the year, benefiting from a $13.7 million pre-tax gain on the disposition of a property. Excluding this, operating income was $0.9 million, or 1%, from the similar quarter last year. Equipment Group revenues were lower as expected, with declines in mining, which is coming off a comparatively strong period of capital investment, partially offset by revenues at the newly acquired business AVL. While uncertain market conditions persist, end customer purchasing decisions and activity are somewhat mixed. Rental and product support revenues increased. CIMCO revenue increased on continuing good demand for its products and services.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

On a consolidated basis, gross profit margins improved compared to prior year on good execution and better sales mix. Expense levels reflect continued support for key operational focus areas. Net interest expense was higher than the prior period, reflecting both higher interest expense as a result of higher borrowings, as well as lower interest income earned on cash on hand due to lower interest rates. Bookings for the third quarter increased 47% compared to Q3 2024 and increased 13% on a year-to-date basis. We saw good order intake in construction and power systems, which includes a significant contribution from the acquired business, partially offset by lower mining orders. Backlog remains healthy at $1.3 billion, up 17% year-over-year, with an increase in both the Equipment Group of 15% and at CIMCO up 24%.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Backlog remains healthy and reflects deliveries in progress on construction schedules, good new booking activity, and backlog related to the acquired business. On a consolidated basis, revenue decreased 2% in the third quarter, with a decrease in the Equipment Group of 4%, largely driven by lower mining deliveries against a strong comparable, and an increase of 22% at CIMCO on higher package and product support revenue. For the first nine months of the year, revenue increased 2%, as the Equipment Group revenue was comparable to last year, while CIMCO was up 15%. Excluding the property disposition gain and the acquired business, SG&A expenses increased 9% in the quarter, 3% year-to-date. Higher DSU mark-to-market adjustments increased expenses in both periods, accounting for approximately 30% of this increase. Compensation costs were higher year-over-year, reflective of regular salary increases, partially offset by lower profit sharing accruals on lower income.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Salary headcount is largely unchanged year-over-year. Sales-related expenses increased year-over-year, reflecting continued investment in resources. All other expenses, such as travel, training, occupancy, and information technology costs, have increased slightly on continued investment for future growth and inflationary effects. Expenses increased slightly to 12.6% of revenue compared to 12.1% last year on a year-to-date basis. Operating income increased 8% in the quarter, and excluding the property gain, increased 1% compared to Q3 2024, as higher gross margins were partially offset by lower revenue and the higher expenses. On a year-to-date basis, operating income was relatively unchanged. However, excluding the gain on property disposition, operating income decreased 3%, reflecting higher expenses partially offset by the gross margin improvements. As a percentage of revenue, operating income was 12.1% on a year-to-date basis compared to 12.4% last year.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Net interest expense increased $4 million in the quarter and $18 million on a year-to-date basis, reflecting interest expense and higher borrowings with the new senior debentures issued in March 2025, as well as the lower interest income earned on cash due to lower interest rates. Net earnings increased 7%, or $9.7 million in the quarter compared to last year, and decreased 3%, or $10.8 million for the first nine months of the year. Basic earnings per share, $1.73 in the quarter and $4.18 year-to-date, reflecting the change in net earnings. Turning to the Equipment Group on slide eight, revenue declined 4% in the quarter, as revenue from the acquired business, along with higher rental and product support revenue, was more than offset by lower new equipment sales as expected in the mining segment. For the first nine months of the year, revenue was relatively unchanged.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Equipment sales, including both new and used equipment, were down in both the quarter and on a year-to-date basis by 12% and 2%, respectively. New equipment sales decreased 15% in the quarter, 2% year-to-date with decreases in mining against a strong comparable, partially offset by higher power systems markets, which include revenue at the acquired business. Used equipment sales increased 7% in the quarter, largely driven by improved activity in the mining and construction markets, and decreased 6% year-to-date. In most markets, the decrease was predominantly led by the lower construction market, slightly offset by improved mining market activity. Looking at the market segments, total equipment revenue decreased 4% in construction and 60% in mining, while power systems increased 102% and material handling increased 6%. Rental revenue was up 5% in the quarter and was up 10% year-to-date.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

While market conditions remained relatively soft, revenues increased compared to the prior year, reflecting a larger fleet and improved utilization in certain areas. Revenue improved in most areas for the quarter as follows. Heavy equipment rentals were up 24%, material handling up 26%, partially offset by a decrease in the light equipment rentals, down 2%, and power rentals down 20%. The RPO fleet was $104 million versus $81 million a year ago, and the rental revenue was up 73% per quarter and 60% year-to-date compared to the similar periods last year. Product support revenue increased 4% in the quarter and 2% year-to-date, with an increase in both parts and service. Activity was higher across most markets and regions, reflecting end-user demand and activity levels.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Looking at specific markets for the quarter, change in revenue was as follows: construction is up 11%, mining down 3%, power systems up 1%, and material handling up 6%. Gross profit margins increased 250 basis points in the quarter compared to Q3 2024 and increased 20 basis points on a year-to-date basis. Equipment margins were up 110 basis points in the quarter, up 40 basis points year-to-date, reflecting market dynamics in play in both periods. Rental margins were relatively unchanged in the quarter, down 30 basis points year-to-date on a higher cost of fleet additions. Product support margins increased 30 basis points in the quarter, down 10 basis points year-to-date, reflecting the nature of the work and sales mix.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Sales mix was favorable both the quarter and on a year-to-date basis, reflecting a higher proportion of product support revenue to total revenue in each period, increasing margins 110 basis points and 20 basis points, respectively. Excluding the gain on the property disposition and the acquired business in 2025, selling and administrative expenses increased $11 million, or 8% in the quarter, and $10 million, or 3% for the first nine months of 2025. Higher DSU mark-to-market adjustments increased expenses in both periods, again accounting for approximately 30% of the increase. Compensation costs were higher in both periods, reflecting regular salary increases, partially offset by lower profit sharing accruals on lower income. Other expenses, such as training, travel, and occupancy costs, have increased in the light of sales levels, planned investment, and inflation.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

As a percentage of revenue, selling and administrative expenses increased to 12.3% in the first nine months of the year compared to 11.7% in the similar period last year. Operating income increased 7% for the quarter and decreased 2% for the first nine months of the year. Excluding the property gain, operating income decreased $2 million, or 1% in the quarter, and decreased 5% year-to-date, reflecting lower activity levels and higher expenses. The acquired business continues to increase production; however, it did not contribute meaningfully to operating income given the expenses arising from purchase price accounting, including such items as amortization of intangibles and the setup of our new U.S. facility. Bookings increased 49% in the quarter. Construction markets were marginally higher, with bookings up 2%, reflecting more normalized supply dynamics. Power systems, which includes the acquired business, saw strong order activity up 388%, a good demand for our products.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Mining markets are lumpy or cyclical due to the nature of the business and were down 43%, as expected, from the third quarter last year, which was a strong comparable. Backlog of $923 million at the end of September remains at healthy levels. Backlog includes approximately $278 million at AVL, which has a delivery schedule over the next two years. Excluding this backlog, it was 20% lower compared to the same time last year, reflecting good deliveries against customer orders over the last 12 months, along with good new order intake over the same period. Approximately 80% of the backlog is expected to be delivered over the next 12 months, but of course, this is subject to timing differences depending upon vendor supply, customer activity, and delivery schedules.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

When you consider the impact of AVL on our results, please keep in mind that the bulk of the purchase price amortization is related to acquired backlog. We expect this backlog to be substantially shipped by the first quarter of 2026. However, it is important to recognize that we own 60% of the business, and any dividends paid to minority shareholders will be treated as expenses when paid. We expect dividends to begin in 2026, related to 2025 performance. Also, keep in mind the production ramp-up in Charlotte that Mike noted in his remarks. Let's turn to CIMCO on slide seven. Revenue was up 22% in the quarter and 15% for the first nine months of the year. Package revenue increased 28% in the quarter and 23% year-to-date, with good execution on equipment delivery and progress on customer schedules.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Recreational activity increased 67%, with higher revenue in both Canada and the U.S. Industrial market revenue decreased 18%, with lower activity in Canada against a strong comparable and higher activity in the U.S. Product support revenue increased 14% in the quarter and 7% on a year-to-date basis, with higher market activity in Canada in both periods. Activity in the U.S. was relatively unchanged in the quarter, but up year-to-date with a stronger start to the year. Activity levels continued to improve on good customer demand and the increased technician base. Gross profit margins decreased 70 basis points in the quarter and increased 20 basis points on a year-to-date basis versus the respective comparable periods. Package margins reflect good execution and the nature of projects in process for both periods, driving a 60 basis point increase year-to-date.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Product support margins decreased 50 basis points in the quarter and 10 basis points year-to-date. Improving execution and efficiency continues to be a focus. An unfavorable sales mix with a lower proportion of product support revenue to total revenue dampened margins in both periods, resulting in a 20 basis point and 30 basis point reduction in gross margin, respectively. Selling and administrative expenses increased $3 million, or 18% in the quarter, and $5 million, or 10%, for the first nine months of the year. Compensation costs increased, reflecting staffing levels, annual salary increases, and higher profit sharing accruals on higher earnings. Other expenditures, such as travel and training expenses, increased to support activity and staffing levels. As a percentage of revenue, selling and administrative expenses improved to 14.8% in the first nine months of the year versus 15.6% in the comparative period last year.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Operating income was up $3 million, or 19%, for the quarter, and $9 million, or 25%, for the first nine months of the year, largely reflecting higher revenue, partially offset by the unfavorable sales mix. Lower gross margins to higher expenses. Operating income, as a percentage of revenue, increased 100 basis points to 11.4% on a year-to-date basis compared to the similar period last year. Bookings increased 35%, or $20 million in the quarter, and were 13% higher, up $25 million on a year-to-date basis. Industrial orders were up 24%, while recreational orders were down 8%. Generally, activity is continuing with good strategic capital investments. However, the current economic uncertainty has delayed some customer buying decisions. Backlog of $341 million was 24% higher versus last year, with higher backlog in both the recreational and industrial markets. Backlog in the U.S.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

was solid, up 46% from this time last year, and backlog in Canada was up 13%. Approximately 75% of the backlog is expected to be realized over the next 12 months. However, this is subject to construction schedules. With that, we can move to slide eight. Turn again to Mike to highlight some of the key takeaways as we look forward rounding out the year. Back to you, Mike.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Great. Thanks again, John. As John mentioned, as we round out the year, our focus remains firmly on executing our strategic priorities, namely maintaining safe and efficient operations, delivering exceptional customer service, and applying discipline and financial and operational rigor to support our long-term growth. With that in mind, we continue to monitor several external factors that may influence the business environment. Trade negotiations between the U.S. and Canada remain fluid.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

We have implemented a proactive mitigation plan and continue to refine such plans as the situation evolves in order to manage potential impacts. Foreign exchange volatility, particularly fluctuations in the Canadian dollar, is being actively managed primarily through our hedging program. While this helps protect our bottom line, broader economic effects may still present challenges. Macroeconomic conditions, including inflation and interest rates, are being closely tracked. As John mentioned, our backlog of $1.3 billion and the equipment supply chain is well-positioned to support customer requirements. The AVL acquisition continues to track to our production plan, though near-term earnings contributions remain modest due to non-cash purchase accounting adjustments, as noted earlier. We continue to invest in our technician workforce, a key enabler of our aftermarket growth strategy. This critical initiative strengthens our aftermarket services capability and enhances the value we deliver to our customers through our product and service offerings.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

From both an operational and financial standpoint, we have a focused operating model, talented leadership team, disciplined culture, and ample liquidity, which equips us well to navigate near-term uncertainty while pursuing strategic growth opportunities. Our long-term commitment to shareholder value remains anchored in cost discipline, strategic investment, and operational excellence. We thank our team for their continued dedication and our stakeholders for their trust and support. That concludes our prepared remarks. We'd now be pleased to take your questions. Joelle, over to you, please, to set up the first call.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press star followed by the one on your touch-tone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press star followed by the two.

Operator

If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question. Your first question comes from Yuri Lynk with Canaccord Genuity. Your line is now open.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Morning, Yuri.

Yuri Lynk
Yuri Lynk
Equity Research Analyst at Canaccord Genuity

Morning. A couple of questions on AVL, if you'll allow me. Really good sequential growth in revenue. Wondering after a couple of quarters of ownership here if you're willing and able to kind of put a revenue number on what the Hamilton facility is able to do on an annual basis with the capacity expansion in place.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. Thanks for the call, Yuri. Maybe I'll start with that. What I would suggest you do is it does fall in under our Equipment Group, of course, and within the power segment.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Probably the best indication that we would direct you to is the disclosure we provide in terms of backlog, and that would be a good indication at this stage. As John mentioned, we are providing some clarity around the earnings performance and some of the non-cash adjustments as we work our way through that. I think at this point, that's what we've included in our disclosure.

Yuri Lynk
Yuri Lynk
Equity Research Analyst at Canaccord Genuity

That's, I guess, what you're saying there, the backlog is. You're viewing that as a 12-month, kind of be executed over 12 months?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I think in my remarks, I think we said the existing backlog will flow out over two years, Yuri.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Keep in mind as well, a little bit of that is going to be dictated by construction schedules for the underlying data center and delivery. I think the two-year mark would be the furthest extent.

Yuri Lynk
Yuri Lynk
Equity Research Analyst at Canaccord Genuity

Can you share how the ramp-up of the Charlotte, North Carolina facility is going, particularly your ability to staff that facility?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah, great question. We're quite happy with progress there. We acquired the facility in Q2, and we do have some limited production starting on one line. There are three lines, and as I mentioned in my comments, we expect that to ramp up throughout the course of 2026. Hiring to date has been tracking at least to plan, and we've had good responsiveness. We do have a great team down there. By the way, we have set up a team managing the facility and also local recruiting and HR management, so it's been progressing nicely.

Yuri Lynk
Yuri Lynk
Equity Research Analyst at Canaccord Genuity

I'll give someone else an opportunity to ask some questions. Thanks.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks, Yuri.

Operator

Your next question comes from Krista Friesen with CIBC. Your line is now open.

Krista Friesen
Director Equity Research at CIBC Capital Markets

Hi. Thank you for taking my question.

Krista Friesen
Director Equity Research at CIBC Capital Markets

I'm just wondering if you could provide a little bit more color on what you're hearing from some of your customers in the construction segment in particular, especially given the number of announcements this year and the budget announcement coming up next week.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah, it's a great question, Krista. I think we're all anxious to hear the announcements that are due next week prior to the Grey Cup, apparently. Looking forward to that and also the sequence and timing. From a customer perspective, I think longer term, we all feel that there's reasonable tailwinds and lots of interest in investment in infrastructure and so forth. Part of what we're waiting for, though, is beyond the provincial indications, is something more concrete coming out of the federal side of the government. I think just the funding and how they're going to match that progress. Stay tuned for that.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I think cautious optimism is there, but I think the timing and sequence of. When shovels will be in the ground and so forth, that's the question for most.

Krista Friesen
Director Equity Research at CIBC Capital Markets

Thanks. Maybe just further to MarketCentral, I appreciate it's still a relatively uncertain environment, but let's say relative to the spring, are you finding that there's a bit more confidence or certainty in some of your customers or still kind of up in the air?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I think if you think about it, and maybe I'll start, and John can speak a bit on. We tend to think of it by segment a little bit. If you look at, say, the mining segment, for example, right now, we do see continued interest in investment. Of course, activity is dictated by mine development schedules and so forth.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

We do see with gold prices and things that there still seems to be a fair bit of activity, longer cycle, of course, but some good sentiment there. I think construction, when you separate it between, say, typical construction activity versus residential, that's probably where we still tend to see softness on the residential side in the infrastructure supporting that residential development. That would probably be the area where we'd see the most uncertainty. However, we are seeing some small projects on road construction, a few things like that you typically would see.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I agree, Mike. It really varies by segment, some regional impact as well, Krista.

Krista Friesen
Director Equity Research at CIBC Capital Markets

Thanks. I appreciate the color. I'll jump back in the queue.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Cherilyn Radbourne with TD Cowen. Your line is now open. Thank you. Good morning.

Operator

This is actually Patrick on for Cherilyn.

Operator

I was just wondering, we saw, I guess, mid-single-digit product support growth year-over-year, but to what extent do you have visibility on an upcoming inflection in that product support based on the fact that you had some very, very strong deliveries over the last two years?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. Great question, Patrick. Thanks for that. I think, as you mentioned, I mean, we're starting to see a little bit better activity levels. We're up about 4%, I think, say in the Equipment Group. Although we saw very strong product support on the CIMCO side, I think it was overcast a little bit by package growth, which outpaced it. In both areas, we're seeing some positive year-over-year performance. I think you sort of touched on an important point. We've seen some.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

The team has done a really nice job delivering new equipment with availability improvement over the last, say, 18-24 months. Getting the hours and the activity levels, because we have seen a little softer activity environment, getting those hours on those machines and then seeing parts consumption, product support requirements beyond preventative maintenance is certainly what we're watching for. I think that'll all come. As we see improved activity over the next, say, 12-24 months, we should start to see a little bit stronger product support on the equipment side. However, it does take time, right, for the equipment to get the hours on that we expect. The other piece of that, of course, is on the mining side where we've had some nice deliveries.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

It does take, like we've said, John and I, it could take two to three years before some of that new equipment gets to a point where product support requirements are beyond preventative maintenance.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Okay. Great. Thank you. Then I guess on data center stuff, so much of the discussion of potential future data center activity has been focused on Western Canada so far. Given the timelines to build these things, and then I think we're starting to hear that timelines on power system gensets may be starting to extend as well again, can you discuss if there's just any early discussion you're hearing in Eastern Canada, given timelines that could be two, three, four years out?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I think it's difficult to speculate, Patrick.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

One of the constraints, obviously, on the data center side is availability of energy to support these facilities because they do consume a lot of energy. I would say that there are some discussions. I think your timeframe is probably pretty accurate in terms of what it takes to construct. We would certainly participate as best we can from the backup power generation. There may be the opportunity for some prime power, but yet to be determined, right, in Eastern Canada.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. The other thing I would add, Patrick, is a lot of discussion over the last several weeks about data privacy and containing some data in Canada. I think that maybe will spark an interest as well across the country in terms of data center build-outs over time.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Great. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks, Patrick.

Operator

Your next question comes from Devin Dodge with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is now open.

Devin Dodge
Devin Dodge
Director and Equity Research at BMO Capital Markets

Yeah. Thanks. Good morning. Maybe just picking up on the last question. With the size of data centers continuing to increase, I think we've seen lead times for gensets kind of extend out. Have you seen interest from developers to transition away from reciprocating engines for backup power to higher power units such as turbines?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. Thanks, Devin, for the question. Good question. I guess that is sort of the constraint that we mentioned earlier. I would say it's early days, especially in our markets, before we could really comment on that. I think ideally, it's great connection and clean power coming out of hydroelectric sources would be the ideal situation in our marketplace, right?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I do think there are business cases that are being contemplated for interim solutions to bridge while that development takes place over time. I'd say it's a bit speculative right now to say it's going to go too far in that direction, but one that we certainly are monitoring carefully.

Devin Dodge
Devin Dodge
Director and Equity Research at BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Makes sense. Maybe just a question on AVL. Look, big sequential improvement in revenue. I think you touched on some things already here, but just wondering if the Q3 revenue, does that reflect the full contributions from the recent expansion in Hamilton, or is there more to go? And is it fair to assume that the initial contributions from the facility in Charlotte were pretty minimal in Q3?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. We're running at close to capacity in Hamilton. Maybe some additional enclosures, but not many. We're running pretty close to capacity there.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

In Charlotte, we're really just getting up and running. As Mike said, we've been successful in hiring. There were some costs to get the facility up and running. The contribution from Charlotte in the quarter was minimal, if any, or ramp-up costs. Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. I'll turn it over.

Devin Dodge
Devin Dodge
Director and Equity Research at BMO Capital Markets

Thank you. Great. Thanks, sir.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, should you have a question, please press star one. Your next question comes from Steve Hansen with Raymond James. Your line is now open.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Yeah. Good morning, guys. Thanks for the time. Just to clear out there, are you taking orders or bookings at this point for the new facility? You suggest over two years the current backlog stretches, but have you started to take on those new orders for the southern facility?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Steve. Yeah.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I would say as we continue to ramp up production there, again, part of that is dictated by the schedule and the hiring that we mentioned earlier and so forth. We are seeing some interest and demand. As we mentioned in our comments, that facility is intended to help support demand in the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S. We are starting to pick up some orders, and you'll see that reflected somewhat in our backlog. We don't break it out, obviously, between the two facilities. We can supply that market by both facilities out of Hamilton and Charlotte. However, we're starting to see some good interest there given the proximity.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Okay. Helpful. Maybe a point of clarification, or just you provide some good disclosure in the footnotes and in the MD&A, but frankly, it's still a little bit difficult to understand what your pre-tax margins are on AVL.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Can you just comment on where those stand roughly? We can still see the non-cash expense that you outline and the revenue you outline, just a little bit murky between the net income piece and the operating line. It looks like these margins are quite healthy. Maybe once you comment on that, just sort of how you think about the durability of that. I think last quarter you referenced a lot of the tightness in the industry is allowing you to over-earn a little bit. How should we think about the trajectory of those margins over time?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks. Steve, thanks for the comment on the disclosure. If you go to page three on the business combination section, we lay it out, I think, pretty clearly. We give you the revenues for the quarter.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

We give you the amortization cost for the quarter, and we give you the net income for the quarter. I think you can back into the margins, and I think your conclusion is correct in terms of the margins that are good. We'll continue to monitor that as we expand the Charlotte facility, and we'll see how that goes over the course of time. Not going to call out where margins are going, but you're right in your assumption right now.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Okay. Helpful. I would just suggest maybe a table every quarter would be helpful just for everyone so it's perfectly laid out if possible. Secondarily, just on a separate topic, could you just maybe comment on the backlog side a little bit? Again, the influence of AVL is obviously showing really strongly given how great that business has been performing.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Just curious on the mining backlog, if you're surprised at all. I know it's been a lumpy business, but I'm also surprised that there hasn't been some uptick in mining a little bit. Is there any visibility on the mining business improving here from early discussions and a lot of the conversations around northern development and things? Have you seen any sort of early stage or advanced talks on that front?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks. Yeah. Thanks, Steve. Just on the mining side, I think, again, as we mentioned, and you touched on it here in your comment and your question, it is very cyclical and lumpy given the mine development schedules. On one hand, I would say, especially in precious metals like gold, we're seeing continued investment, some expansion, some opportunities, and some other commodities. However, given the development cycle, the investment cycle, and so forth, they are lumpy.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

We're not surprised by the backlog. We anticipated that. We had, over the last 18 to 24 months, some really strong equipment deliveries over time. All I would say is, look, our team is fully engaged in looking to earn their way into opportunities as they develop over the next several years. We are hearing, certainly in the Ontario Market, say, for example, some interest in developing some of the rare earth areas and things like that in northern Ontario. It's up to our team to participate in those opportunities and to earn our way into them. It'd be difficult to forecast what we're seeing there, but nice to see that there is some investment interest. I think the silver lining based on the trade discussions that we're hearing about every day.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Okay. Appreciate the time. Thanks.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Jonathan Goldman with Scotiabank.

Operator

Your line is now open.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Jonathan?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Hi. This is actually Carol on for Jonathan Goldman. Thanks for taking my question.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Sure.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

On AVL, particularly the new facility, how should we think about the level of OpEx required to support growth?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. As we talked about from a capacity point of view, we're really just building the employee base right now. We said that it's going to ramp over the course of time. As you're ramping up the business, you would expect that OpEx would be heavy compared to revenue at the beginning, and then it'll work its way out. That's the way I would kind of model that. It's a little heavier on OpEx at the beginning, and then as we ramp up sales, it'll come back to normal levels. I think the only other thing worthy of mentioning there is it's an owned facility.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I think we mentioned we'd put about $60 million into it. As we continue to ramp that up, that's the way you should be thinking about that facility from a fixed investment perspective.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thank you. Another phenomenal quarter for CIMCO with double-digit growth. Can you talk about what's supporting growth, whether it's demand outside of your core end markets, and how should we think about the sustainability of current growth rates?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

It's a great question. Thanks for the question. If you look at our numbers on the quarter, again, the team has done a nice job over the last 12-18 months and continues to show sequential growth. I think, as we always mention, the package side is a bit lumpy just due to the nature of that part of the business, right?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

The industrial side of things, construction schedules, and even on the recreational side, as we do conversions to CO2 or ammonia, that side of the business can have ebbs and flows based on construction and the seasonality in our marketplace. If you look at our backlog, we saw some good bookings in the quarter and on a year-to-date basis. CIMCO's sitting at about $341 million, which again is a very strong number for the business, especially when you compare it to historical trending and so forth. All that to say, what we are seeing is we certainly see ebbs and flows between Canada and the U.S. We also see it between commercial, industrial side, and recreational. I think, generally speaking, what we saw in the quarter and in the performance year to date is some good activity across each of the segments that we serve.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks for the color.

Operator

Your next question comes from Maxim Sytchev with National Bank Capital Markets. Your line is now open.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

Hi. Good morning, gentlemen.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Good morning, Max.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

I was wondering if it's possible to get a bit of a comment in relation to the Equipment Group's overall pricing trends. I think Caterpillar was a bit more, provided a bit more encouraging commentary in their call. Just wondering what you're seeing in the marketplace right now.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks. Maybe just to start on that, and John can probably give you a little color on the margin side. I would say, again, first of all, I would say we wouldn't comment on Caterpillar and their results in the sense that they're much more diversified geographically and by a number of end markets.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

When we look at our particular marketplace on the equipment side, we talked a little bit in our commentary about a bit of a movement between equipment sales, excluding mining. We're down a little bit on new, but up on used. We're seeing a bit of a shift. We're quite pleased with the performance of the team in the sense that when we monitor market share and activity levels in our markets, they are down, especially on the heavier construction side, but our market share and things have done well. The team has done a really nice job executing there. Availability, as you know, Max, is really strong in the marketplace. Whether you're looking at GCI product or the mid-tier BCP or CCE, it's very strong.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I think at the end of the day, we're adapting to our market conditions and trying to make sure that when we work with our customers, whether it's a rental, a new, or used equipment, whatever the requirement is, that we're there to support them. We're very competitively positioned to help support them over the longer term. I can't really give you much more color than that.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Just on margins, I mean, we've talked about margins on new and used, kind of coming back to more normal levels over the last little while, stabilizing. We had a good mix this quarter in terms of the equipment that we shipped, in terms of construction and power. A little less on the mining side, as we talked about. Rental utilizations were up a little bit, which was good news.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Product support as a percentage of the total was up, and those all contributed to the mix issue. As Mike talked about, our hope and plan is that product support continues to grow as the equipment that we have shipped over the last couple of years needs parts and service.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

For sure. I guess, do you mind maybe just touching a little bit onto the RPO? I mean, that seems to be moving in the right direction as well.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

The RPO, I'd say it's probably back to where it was in prior years before we had supply issues. Max, I think we got $101 million right now. It really is used as a cash management tool by our customers where they don't have capital at a particular point in time. It's a financing cash management issue.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

We expect most, if not all of that, to convert, as it usually does, to sales over the course of normally 12 months.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

Okay. That's great. One last clarification. Free cash flow was very strong in Q3. Should we assume kind of the typical seasonality for Q4? Was there anything unusual when it pertains to this particular quarter, or how should we think on a prospective basis?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Oh, yeah. Operating cash flow was very good in the quarter, some $250 million or close to $250 million. The inventory levels were up over the last couple of quarters, and the team did a really good job managing inventory levels this quarter. That was a big contributor to it as well. Really pleased with the balance sheet management in the quarter and the cash flow. Right.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

For Q4, should we assume kind of a typical seasonality that we see, or is there anything unusual we should be mindful of?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I wouldn't think there's anything unusual there, Max. Like you say, I think we're sort of seeing more moderation, more normalization there. The question we always see is, depending on how Q4 goes, year-end buys, we do have, obviously, equipment. We have a snow season ahead of us. We wouldn't predict anything unusual.

Maxim Sytchev
Maxim Sytchev
Managing Director at National Bank Financial

Of course. Okay. That's great. Thank you so much.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks again.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thanks, Max.

Operator

Your next question comes from Steve Hansen with Raymond James. Your line is now open.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Oh, yeah. Thanks for that clarification. Is there a reason the dividend hasn't been started to pay for the minority shareholders on AVL? Just, John, you referenced the starting point in the first quarter. I was just curious.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

There is a question on the dividend on AVL, Steve. Yeah. We're in the first year of the acquisition. We'll have to see, of course, how the first-year earnings turn out, what cash flow looks like, what cash balance looks like. The board will meet that we have an obligation to meet as a board and determine how much of a dividend we should pay out based on the full-year performance of AVL. That's why it's a 2026 related issue.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

It'll be a quarterly regular, or will it be lumpy? How should we think about it?

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Yeah. I have to come back to you on that one as well. Again, the board will meet and determine how we're going to pay out that dividend, whether it's a one-time or over the quarters. I'll come back to keep you posted for sure.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Okay. Helpful.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Just one last one, if I may, is just around the margin profile for the Equipment Group. We actually saw a nice uptick in the period. I assume part of that's mix. Some of the disclosures suggest the equipment side also had some benefit. Are you starting to see some stabilization in the competitive environment out there? We saw such a large swing in supply side opportunity over the last couple of years that's created some pressure, of course. How are you thinking about the margin profile for new equipment packages going out today versus even a year ago?

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Maybe just to start on that, Steve, I would say there's an availability in the marketplace that's certainly much stronger and has been persistent throughout the year.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

I think part of it is, as John mentioned earlier, when you look at the mix of sales, especially if you're just looking at the quarter, but on a year-to-date basis, you'll see the product support has started to come into play. Rental has improved a little bit. The equipment, we're seeing movements, especially on the mining side. Keep that in mind because as we see deliveries in mining, they're generally slightly lower margin, but larger dollars and so forth. There's even mix within the new segment. As we talk about the backlog and fulfilling that backlog, I think you're going to see some ebbs and flows there. I would say it's certainly a well-supported market in terms of availability broadly.

Steve Hansen
Managing Director and Equity Analyst at Raymond James Ltd

Okay. Helpful. Thanks.

Mike McMillan
Mike McMillan
President and CEO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thank you.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to John Doolittle for closing remarks.

John Doolittle
John Doolittle
EVP and CFO at Toromont Industries Ltd

Thank you very much, Joelle, for helping us out today. Thanks for joining us, everyone, and for some great questions, as usual. That concludes our call. Please be safe. Go Blue Jays. Have a great day. Take care.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

Executives
    • Mike McMillan
      Mike McMillan
      President and CEO
    • John Doolittle
      John Doolittle
      EVP and CFO
Analysts
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