CAE Q4 2025 Earnings Report

CAE EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.33
• Consensus EPS: $0.32
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$0.01
• One Year Ago EPS: $0.37

CAE Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: $886.20 million
• Expected Revenue: $1.30 billion
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$418.42 million
• YoY Revenue Growth: +13.20%

CAE Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q4 2025
• Date: 5/13/2025
• Time: After Market Closes
• Conference Call Date: Wednesday, May 14, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 8:00AM ET

CAE (NYSE:CAE). is a Canadian technology company that develops simulation, training and mission-support solutions for the aviation and defense markets. Founded in 1947 and headquartered in Montréal, Québec, the company serves commercial airlines, business aviation operators, aircraft manufacturers, defense forces and government agencies worldwide.

In civil aviation, CAE provides flight simulators, pilot-training systems, aviation training services and digital tools designed to support pilot recruitment, instruction, certification and recurrent training. Its offerings cover a range of aircraft types and are used by airlines, flight schools, business aviation operators and aircraft manufacturers.

CAE’s defense and security activities include simulation-based training, mission rehearsal, modeling and simulation, and integrated training systems for air, land, maritime and other military operations. The company also develops related software and technologies intended to improve operational readiness while reducing the need to train exclusively with live equipment.

CAE Q4 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Key Takeaways

• We generated $289 million in free cash flow in Q4 and a record $814 million for the full year, achieving a 211% cash conversion rate and meeting year-end leverage targets for enhanced financial flexibility.
• New orders of $1.3 billion in Q4 drove a record end-of-year adjusted backlog of $20.1 billion, up 65% year-over-year, highlighting strong customer demand.
• The Civil segment delivered a record adjusted operating margin of 28.6% in Q4 and grew its backlog 37% to $8.8 billion despite global aircraft supply constraints.
• The Defense segment improved its adjusted operating margin to 9.2% in Q4, doubled its backlog to $11.3 billion, and booked a record $4.0 billion in orders for the year.
• For FY 2026, CAE expects mid-to-high single-digit segment income growth in Civil and low double-digit growth in Defense with modest margin expansion, targeting 150% cash conversion and net debt/EBITDA of 2.5×.

Presentation

[Operator]

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Andrew Arnovitz. Please go ahead, Mr. Arnovitz.

[Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations at CAE]

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that today's remarks, including management's outlook for fiscal 2026 and answers to questions, contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements represent our expectations as of today, May 14, 2025, and accordingly are subject to change. Such statements are based on assumptions that may not materialize and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially, and listeners are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements. A description of the risks, factors, and assumptions that may affect future results is contained in CAE's annual MD&A available on our corporate website and in our filings with the Canadian Securities Administrators on SEDAR+ and the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on EDGAR.

[Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations at CAE]

On the call with me this morning are Marc Parent, CAE's President and Chief Executive Officer, and Constantino Malatesta, our Interim Chief Financial Officer. Nick Leontidis, CAE's Chief Operating Officer, is also on hand for the question period. After remarks from Marc and Constantino, we'll open the call to questions from financial analysts. Let me now turn the call over to Marc.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Thanks, Andrew, and good morning, everyone. We delivered an exceptional fourth quarter that capped a strong year across all of our key financial and operational metrics. I'm very pleased with the performance and proud of how the team delivered with disciplined execution and efficient capital management. We generated CAD 289 million in free cash flow in the quarter and a record CAD 814 million for the full year, translating to a very robust cash conversion rate of 211%. That level of cash generation enabled us to meet our year-end leverage target, giving a stronger financial position and increased flexibility as we look ahead. Importantly, we also continued building momentum for long-term growth and profitability. We secured CAD 1.3 billion in new orders in the quarter for a record end-of-year adjusted backlog of CAD 20.1 billion, which is up 65% from last year.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

This achievement is a testament to the confidence our customers have in CAE and the strength of demand across our markets. Turning to our segments, I'm extremely proud of what we've accomplished, executing our strategy with dedicated focus and operational rigor. On the civil side, despite ongoing constraints in global aircraft supply and the temporary drop in U.S. pilot hiring, we delivered another strong quarter, demonstrating both the resilience of our business model and the strength of our global franchise. Civil achieved a record adjusted segment operating margin of 28.6% in Q4 and 21.5% for the year. Adjusted segment operating income grew 6% year-over-year, a particularly good result given the factors that have been holding the commercial market back from more normalized operating rules. Our backlog in civil grew an impressive 37% to a record CAD 8.8 billion, supported by CAD 3.7 billion in new orders, including 56 full-flight simulators.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

During the quarter, civil signed training and operational support solutions contracts valued at CAD 742 million, including the sale of 14 full-flight simulators and long-term training and airline operations digital solutions contracts. In defense, we accelerated our path to greater profitability. We delivered an adjusted segment operating income margin of 9.2% in the quarter and 7.5% for the year, driven by solid program execution and a year doubling of the adjusted defense backlog to CAD 11.3 billion. During the quarter, defense booked orders for CAD 596 million, bringing the full-year total to a record CAD 4.0 billion. It's very clear that we're gaining traction and are well-positioned for continued growth in a market with significant long-term tailwinds. With that, I'll now turn the call over to Dino, who can provide a detailed look at our financial performance. I'll return at the end of the call to comment on our outlook. Dino?

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Thank you, Marc. Good morning, everyone. Looking at our fourth quarter results on a consolidated basis, revenue of CAD 1.3 billion was up 13% compared to the fourth quarter last year. Adjusted segment operating income was CAD 258.8 million compared to CAD 125.7 million last year. Quarterly EPS was CAD0.47 per share compared to CAD0.12 in the fourth quarter last year. For the year, consolidated revenue was up 10% to CAD 4.7 billion. Adjusted segment operating income was up 33% to CAD 732 million. Annual adjusted net income was CAD 385.5 million, or CAD1.21 per share, which is up compared to CAD0.87 last year. Net finance expense this quarter amounted to CAD 56.5 million, which is up from CAD 52.4 million in the fourth quarter last year.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

I expect runway quarterly finance expense to be approximately CAD 55 million in fiscal 2026, which is a bit higher than last year because of additional lease expenses related to recently opened training centers in our global network in support of Grohna and the financing costs associated with the consolidation of the Simcom joint venture in business aviation. Income tax expense this quarter was CAD 45.2 million, representing an effective tax rate of 25% compared to an effective tax rate of just 14% in the fourth quarter last year. The adjusted effective tax rate, which is the income tax rate used to determine adjusted net income and adjusted EPS, was 25% this quarter compared to 47% in the fourth quarter last year.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

The annual effective income tax rate in fiscal 2026 is expected to be approximately 25%, considering the income anticipated from various jurisdictions and the impact from global minimum tax legislative changes. Net cash provided by operating activities was CAD 322.7 million for the quarter compared to CAD 216.2 million in the fourth quarter last year. For the year, we generated CAD 896.5 million from operating activities compared to CAD 566.9 million last year. The strong performance is a result of the team's focus on execution, hitting program milestones, and being highly prudent about cash management. This effort translated into an excellent free cash flow performance this year, and we're now targeting a conversion rate of 150% for fiscal 2026 and beyond. This represents a step-change increase from approximately 100% conversion rate, which we previously targeted, and underscores the highly cash-generative nature of CAE's business.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Uses of cash involved funding CapEx for CAD109 million in the fourth quarter and CAD356.2 million for the year, driven mainly by expansion of our civil aviation training network in lockstep with secured customer demand. These opportunities translate to some of our best returns as our simulator assets ramp up with the first three years of development, reaching an average 20%-30% pre-tax incremental return on capital employed. We remain highly focused on capital efficiency and expect total CapEx in fiscal 2026 to be modestly lower than in fiscal 2025. This will be concentrated mainly on organic growth investments in similar capacity to be deployed to CAE's network of aviation training centers, which are backed by multi-year customer contracts.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Our net debt position at the end of the quarter was CAD 3.2 billion for a net debt-to-adjusted EBITDA of 2.77x, comfortably below our end-of-year target of below 3x. Consistent with our disciplined capital allocation strategy and commitment to financial resiliency, we expect to further reduce net leverage to 2.5x by the end of fiscal 2026, supported by strong and sustained free cash flow generation. Now, to briefly recap our segmented performance. In civil, fourth quarter revenue was up 4% over a year to CAD 728.4 million, and adjusted segment operating income was up 9% year-over-year to CAD 208.4 million for a margin of 28.6%. For the year, civil revenue was up 11% to CAD 2.7 billion, and adjusted segment operating income was up 6% to CAD 581.5 million for an annual margin of 21.5%.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Average training center utilization was 75% for the fourth quarter, down from 78% the prior year, mainly due to the reduction in pilot hiring in the Americas related to OEM aircraft supply constraints. Utilization was 74% for the year, down from 76% the year prior. In products, we delivered 15 civil full-flight simulators in the quarter and 61 for the year, compared to 47 deliveries in the prior year. In defense, fourth quarter revenue of CAD 547 million was up 29% over Q4 last year. Adjusted segment operating income was CAD 50.4 million for a 9.2% adjusted segment operating income margin. Legacy contracts remain on track, with costs and schedules well-managed, and the margin excluding legacy contracts was 9.9%. This compares to a negative adjusted segment operating income of CAD 65.7 million in the fourth quarter last year.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

For the year, defense revenue was up 8% to CAD 2 billion, and adjusted segment operating income reached CAD 150.5 million for an adjusted segment operating income margin of 7.5%. Before I turn the call over to Marc, I'll make a few comments about the potential impacts of tariffs. CAE is well-insulated from direct tariff impacts. Approximately 70% of CAE's total revenues come from services delivered within our customers' own countries, which significantly limits our exposure to cross-border tariffs. For the U.S. market, this proportion was even higher, around 80% last year. Moreover, our flagship product, the full-flight simulator, is exempt from tariffs under the U.S. MCA. From an enterprise risk standpoint, with roughly one-third of our workforce based in the United States, a substantial operating footprint, and an already significant U.S. bill of materials, we're confident that we have the flexibility to effectively manage any residual risk exposure.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

With that, I will ask Marc to discuss the way forward.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Thanks, Dino. Before getting into our outlook, I want to take a moment to reflect on how far we've come. Over the past few months, I've had the real privilege of onboarding our new directors and our new chairmen and spending time with our teams around the world, from training centers to manufacturing and engineering sites. What I've seen confirms everything that I have always known about this remarkable company of ours. CAE has transformed into a purpose-driven, high-performance organization. Our mission to make the world safer isn't just words; it's really deeply embedded in who we are and what we do. Whether it's preparing pilots for complex airspace, enabling defense forces to be mission-ready, or supporting critical operations, we are there for the moments that matter. What always strikes me most is the caliber and the commitment of our people.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Across 240 sites in more than 40 countries, our 13,000 employees show up every day with focus, resilience, and a deep sense of purpose. That mindset, combined with our unmatched technology, our operational excellence, and our strategic position, has made CAE a clear leader in this industry. Over the last couple of decades, we've evolved from an industrial products company to a global powerhouse in training and simulation. We're no longer working to meet the standard; we're defining it. With the momentum that we've built, I believe that the best is still ahead. The market has begun to recognize our progress across the business, as reflected in our stock's outperformance relative to broader North American indices this year. As we look ahead to fiscal 2026, we're carrying forward significant momentum with confidence and clarity.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

We have an over CAD 20.1 billion of adjusted backlog, and with the financial and operational discipline that we've demonstrated, we're entering the new fiscal year from a position of real strength. With continued focus on execution, innovation, and value creation, I'm confident that we'll build on this foundation to deliver growth, higher margins, and stronger free cash flow. In civil, we remain well-positioned with strong fundamentals and solid demand across both commercial and business aviation. Before getting into the specifics of our outlook, it's worth highlighting the recurring nature of our civil business, which is a key reason that we remain confident in its long-term resilience and growth. Recurrent training, which is required approximately every six months to maintain pilot certification, represents about 70% of total training activity. These regulatory requirements are consistent worldwide, making this portion of demand durable and relatively insulated from short-term economic volatility.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

The remaining 30% of training demand comes from new pilot certifications and aircraft type transitions driven by fleet growth and pilot retirements. In the civil business, we also lead the market in the sale and support of full-flight simulators. While this is inherently more cyclical and closely tied to aircraft deliveries, this part of the business is all supported by very strong long-term fundamentals. Because of the short-term supply chain constraints that have impacted OEM aircraft output, we expect modestly lower simulator deliveries this fiscal year, with a greater proportion occurring in the second half. For the year as a whole, we expect to continue winning our fair share of full-flight simulators. Looking longer term, the outlook remains highly compelling. Boeing and Airbus have a combined backlog of over 17,500 aircraft, and both project the global in-service fleet to nearly double over the next 20 years.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

On top of that, more than 280,000 new pilots will be needed globally over the next decade to support this growth and offset pilot retirements. These structural drivers create a clear and compelling runway for sustained growth in pilot training long-term. In business aviation, we expect to see continued momentum as we scale operations at new training centers and ramp up recent simulator deployments. The business segment is benefiting from growth in the number of high-net-worth individuals in the world, strong OEM backlog, and structural shifts towards fractional ownership. Flight activity levels in the U.S. are 15% above 2019 levels, and fractional operators like Flexjet have seen a nearly 60% increase in flight hours over the same period, reinforcing the underlying demand fundamentals.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Our exposure is weighted towards larger business aircraft types, which have historically demonstrated greater resilience to economic cycles, a dynamic that gives us added confidence in the current macroeconomic environment. In any event, we see no significant indications of worsening conditions at this time. Another example of growth and resiliency of our civil business is our strategic expansion into the air traffic controller training market, which is a natural adjacency that builds on our decades of experience in simulation-based training for highly regulated, safety-critical roles. This initiative has been notably capital-efficient with the launch last year of our first air traffic services, or ATS, training center in Montreal, which leverages our existing asset base and is in partnership with NAV CANADA, which manages one of the largest airspace areas in the world.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

A mere six months later, the center welcomed its first students, and just over a year since announcing our entry into the ATS training, CAE has now successfully trained seven cohorts of air traffic controllers and flight service specialists who have now completed their basic training and transitioned back to NAV CANADA for their on-the-job training. Through this partnership, we aim to train approximately 500 personnel by 2028. Our decision to expand into this segment was driven by clear and growing global need. By our own estimates, some 70,000 new air traffic controllers are going to be required over the next decade. Shortages, particularly in the United States and parts of Europe, are already putting pressure on airspace capacity and system efficiency.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

With our established expertise in high-consequence training environments, we're well-positioned to support this essential function of the aviation ecosystem, enhancing both safety and throughput while adding a new durable revenue stream to CAE's civil portfolio. For civil overall, we're taking a measured view of the first half of fiscal 2026 as we monitor broader macroeconomic conditions and OEM aircraft delivery rates. In terms of our quarterly cadence in civil, we expect this fiscal year to begin much like last year in both revenue and margins, with performance building progressively towards a stronger second half driven by increased training activity and product deliveries. For the year ahead, we expect segment operating income to grow in the mid to high single-digit % range, with a modest increase in the annual adjusted segment operating income margin. In defense, CAE is well-positioned to benefit from a sustained global upcycle in military spending.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

The European Commission recently introduced a rearm EU program targeting EUR 800 billion in defense investment by 2030 and could potentially be even greater with proposed fiscal rule exemptions. Across NATO and allied nations, including a notably stronger commitment from Canada, increasing defense budgets are driving demand for the advanced training and simulation solutions, where CAE has a clear competitive differentiation. We've built a strong franchise in Canada over the past several years, with major program wins and extensions, including contracts like the FACT contract, the ARPAS contract, fixed-wing search and rescue, NFDC, and the CFAT systems engineering support contract. The Canadian federal government plans to nearly double its annual defense spending from approximately CAD 40 billion to over CAD 80 billion by 2032.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

In spite of this substantial growth opportunity, or in light actually of this substantial growth opportunity and the scale of our current program base, we've recently evolved our defense organizational structure to establish Canada as a standalone region with its own dedicated P&L alongside our U.S. and international segments. This change reflects the growing strategic importance of the Canadian defense market and our leadership position within it, while also enabling our international team to sharpen its focus on broader global opportunities. We're immensely proud to have been ranked once more as Canada's top defense company by Canadian Defense Review Magazine, marking the third time that CAE has received this honor. To me, this recognition highlights our commitment to advancing global defense capabilities through cutting-edge training solutions, ensuring that we remain a trusted ally in the pursuit of security and operational readiness.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Our aim is to be Canada's premier training partner, and one clear validation of the progress we're making came in February when CAE was named a strategic partner to the Government of Canada for the Future Fighter Leading Training Program. Under this initiative, we'll design and co-develop the next generation of training for Royal Canadian Air Force fighter pilots, supporting Canada's fifth-generation fighter readiness and reinforcing our leadership in high-consequence training and mission support. This is just another example of the long-term high-value opportunities that we see unfolding, and it highlights CAE's growing role in strengthening the capabilities of Canada and its allies. With a defense backlog that's nearly doubled year over year and a solid foundation of program execution, we expect continued progress toward reaching our goal of a low double-digit % margin and above-market long-term growth.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Specifically for the year ahead, we expect defense to have low double-digit % annual segment operating income growth and an annual segment operating margin in the 8%-8.5% range. To sum up, CAE is entering fiscal 2026 from a position of strength. CAE remains both a highly compelling long-term growth story and, at the same time, a very good port in the storm. We've built a resilient, high-performing company, one that's winning in the market, delivering for customers, and creating long-term value for shareholders. We bring together all the hallmarks of an excellent company: a record-order backlog, deep customer intimacy, strong competitive differentiation, a high proportion of recurring revenue and cash flow, and exposure to secular growth markets. Our focus remains squarely on innovation and delighting our customers, coupled with capital efficiency, operational excellence, and discipline execution.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Lastly, as we manage a planned CEO transition later this summer, the board and I are committed to a smooth and seamless handover. The process to identify the next CEO is well underway, and we're confident it's going to result in a leader who will carry forward CAE's strategy, culture, and momentum. I feel very good about our strong foundation, our deep leadership team, and the clear path ahead. CAE is exceptionally well-positioned for continued success and sustainable growth well into the future. With that, I thank you for your attention, and we're now ready to answer your questions.

[Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations at CAE]

Thanks, Marc. Operator will now open the line to financial analysts.

[Operator]

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To join the question queue, you may press star then one on your telephone keypad. You'll hear a tone acknowledging your request. If you're using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Our first question is from Kevin Chiang with CIBC. Please go ahead.

[Kevin Chiang, Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at CIBC]

Hi. Good morning here. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe just my first one. Maybe if I can dig into what's underpinning your civil outlook. I understand the prudency just given all the macro uncertainty, but maybe if we can dig into what you're seeing in terms of commercial training demand versus business jet training demand. And then on the margin outlook for the year, I guess I would have thought mix would have been more of a tailwind if you're selling fewer FFS this year and you have the full benefit of Simcom. Maybe if you can just walk me through some of the puts and takes on the margin outlook as well. Thank you.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Okay. Look, I'll kick it off and maybe turn over to Nick for some additional color on some of it. Look, I'm just going back to the civil outlook. I mean, what we're doing, we're taking a measured approach, specifically in light of the more cautious tone that we hear from airlines and a bit of a softness that we saw late in fiscal year. As we point out, the second half is typically stronger. I've seen that, I think, every year I've been at CAE. We're expecting a more moderate environment in the first half, both in terms of what we see in terms of deliveries of simulators that we're going to execute and some near-term uncertainty. All that's reflected in the guidance that we had.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

I think we'll hasten one thing is on the training side, and turn over to Nick, training demand remains very resilient. We see some regional variation. We see the pilot activity pick up recently in the United States. So we're watching that very closely. Coming back to simulator deliveries, which are really a function of delivery of aircraft out of Boeing and Airbus, I mean, what we see is the supply chain issues are getting better, but they continue to constrain the aircraft production itself, but certainly not at peak production rates. We are expecting modestly lower deliveries in the first half of this year. That is going to be a way forward to the back half. Those are some of the components. Maybe just add a little bit to that, Nick.

[Nick Leontidis, COO at CAE]

I'm just going to say, Kevin, just the pilot hiring. If you go through the drivers, pilot hiring, which is one driver, is improving for sure, but not where they were last year. Aircraft deliveries, same thing. I mean, things are improving, actually, with Boeing, but we've been pretty lopsided with Airbus being the vast majority of the deliveries, and therefore a lot of our product sales have been in Airbus versus Boeing. Of course, the customers themselves, there is a certain amount of, I guess, slack in the system right now because they were hiring at a certain level. We just need to let all this kind of balance out a little bit, I think.

[Nick Leontidis, COO at CAE]

When we look at the year and we look at the forecast and the guidance that we've given, I mean, it's taking a little bit of that into consideration because obviously we see it improving. As Marc said, demand in the training centers is still quite strong. I mean, obviously, it can always be stronger, but the difference is not that big as you see. We are, I mean, mid to high single-digit growth on a base of civil, which is this high, is something that is not—we need some of these drivers to improve.

[Kevin Chiang, Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at CIBC]

That's helpful. I'll leave it there. This was super helpful. Thank you very much.

[Operator]

The next question is from Fadi Chamoun with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

[Fadi Chamoun, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BMO Capital Markets]

Okay. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I want to ask about the flight operation business. You put together a few small acquisitions and Sabre, and I think I recall you have been investing in kind of modernizing the software and modernizing the approach to market in that business. We recently saw Boeing sell the competing assets to a private equity. I wanted to get your thoughts, what state of readiness that business segment is at right now from a competitive position perspective, and if you can give us some color about how it's performing relative to the level that you had expected by this time.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Okay. Yeah, Fadi, thanks for the question. I'll kick it off maybe again with Nick. Look, I mean, we're winning in the market. That's the first thing I'll say. We're very—this is just continuing what I've said in previous calls—we're winning a disproportionate proportion of the business that we get in campaigns that we see out there. Our order book is growing, I can tell you, but basically, I would say we're at capacity for the work that we can take on right now. If anything, we're paced right now in terms of growth at the speed at which the airlines can actually undergo the changes in their operational control centers because when you're making a change, you're adopting a system like ours. It takes a lot of time and effort to implement, think like for a company implementing an ERP program.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

It's the same kind of thing. It takes a lot. You're working hand in hand with airlines. We're kind of paced from that standpoint. Look, again, we're winning in the market. We're very clear that we have a growth business over the next few years. What you're seeing us do right now is we're winning orders that are basically SaaS kind of profile orders, which means that we are going to be recognizing the revenue and the earnings over a number of years as we execute those orders. It's kind of like the analogy, we're moving from rather than selling a simulator, so selling like an on-premise solution, we're delivering training, which is over quite a few years. In terms of the execution of our business, that's where we stand. Quite happy with our position in the market, and we're executing well.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

We have a strong order book. In terms of the question you asked about Boeing selling and the Jeppesen deal, I think the strong level of interest that we saw in the market demonstrates the attractiveness of this side of the market. I mean, I think basically that's what I pointed at. I don't think you want anything more with the question.

[Nick Leontidis, COO at CAE]

No, I was just going to say right now that the business, the number of implementations have ramped up significantly with all of the wind. The way I would look at this is we have about CAD 700 million of orders, and the average contract's about five years. We have CAD 100 million-CAD 150 million of revenue sitting there that we need to implement solutions that we've sold and start to generate revenue. The best is yet to come, I guess, is the way I would put it.

[Fadi Chamoun, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BMO Capital Markets]

Okay. Just kind of follow up on these comments. From a scale perspective, do you think you have the scale ultimately to be effective in this part of the business? Are you finding, I mean, from the backlog, I guess the answer is yes, but are you finding a lot of synergies in your commercial approach between kind of what you are doing on the training side and what you are doing on the flight operation side?

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

I will just point to one thing, just a recent example. We just had a big customer meeting of the business just last week in Greece. We hosted that at our new Aegean training center. That was with the co-CEOs of Aegean. I can tell you that the reaction of airlines to basically witnessing the scope of CAE, both in its training market and now in the service market, just from a brand capability, I think there was definitely synergies there. That is just anecdotal. If you want to add anything to it.

[Nick Leontidis, COO at CAE]

No, I see. I mean, the synergies for this business are primarily in the front end. We have teams that are active on both sides of the house when it comes to capturing customers. We leverage everything that we do with our customers to support more business with FlightScape in particular. I mean, it is a different business, but it is another way for us to become, at the end, we want to become as important as we can to our customers. This is another way to do that.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Maybe just to add on, I do not think that—and I do not think that maybe that was part of your question, Fadi. I mean, to be specific, we have what we need in this business. It is not like we need to add any more capability or through M&A or anything like that to this business. Again, the portfolio that we have and the various software platforms that we have allows us to have the success we have in the market, which is going to fuel a strong business for us, as demonstrated in the CAD 700 million of added backlog that Nick talked about.

[Fadi Chamoun, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BMO Capital Markets]

Thank you.

[Operator]

The next question is from Konark Gupta with Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

[Konark Gupta, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Scotiabank]

Thanks, and good morning. I just wanted to kind of touch on defense margin a bit here. Looking at, obviously, the last year, the sequential progression has been pretty remarkable with the margin exiting the fiscal year at about, call it, 9% if we exclude the tax credit and the legacy dilution. What's keeping sort of the lid on your expectation for this fiscal year when you're expecting 8-8.5% margin? I mean, is there a timing in terms of how the legacy programs unfold, or is there something in the mix in the backlog that's not letting the margin kind of exceed that 9% you saw in the latest quarter?

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

I'll start by saying we're not putting a lid on anything. If you think about going to 8.5% on average, what's inherent in that is you could continue to see inherently the progression, that kind of progression that you saw this year. I think, look, I like to walk before we can run, and we've been walking pretty fast. I think we're going to continue to do that. I think you saw it in the numbers. We were confident in this year. We continue to feel very good about where we are, how we closed the fiscal year. We're carrying very strong momentum into the new year. There's really two drivers behind the outlook that we're giving. First, what you're seeing is the benefit of strong program execution. We're hitting the milestone.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

We're unlocking the cash, which, by the way, was a key contributor to the very strong free cash flow performance that we had in the fourth quarter. Second, really, we're ramping up higher margin programs that we want to commit to the backlog. If you remember the story that we've had for quite a few quarters now, is that basically what we've been doing is retiring programs, executing on programs that have inherently been won at margins that are, if you like, dilutive or not accretive to the low double-digit margin expectations we have of the business, replacing them with contracts that do. That continues to be the story here.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

When you look at the size of the backlog, ending the year at CAD 11.3 billion backlog, which, by the way, I would say, and that's not over, we have over CAD 7 billion in bids and proposals that are outstanding, so submitted to customers, waiting in terms of a customer decision. I mean, it really positions us extremely well, continually shaping the business towards our goal of higher quality, higher margin of work. Look, I continue, again, going back to say there's no lid on this business. I don't certainly expect a perfectly linear upward trajectory. We've done very well. There's always going to be quarterly variability in this business because inherently, when you execute, depending on which programs you execute in any given quarter. Look, we anticipate, I would say cadence similar to last year, performance building progressively from Q1 onward.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Look, I mean, bottom line, the fundamentals have very clearly improved. We've done a turnaround in this business, and we're very good about this trajectory.

[Konark Gupta, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Scotiabank]

Thanks, Mark. Thank you. I think you touched on the working capital aspect there. I wanted to ask maybe from Dino, how should we think about the working capital in this fiscal year? Do you see these cash conversions continuing at a similar clip, or the mix will have some implications?

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Thank you for the question. Effectively, I'm really, really pleased with their free cash flow generation of CAD290 million this quarter. The record, CAD814 million free cash flow generated in the rest of 2025. That is a conversion rate of 211%. The capital allocation priorities do remain unchanged. The leveraging is a central part of what we're envisioning going forward. We are aiming to take our leverage down to 2.5x by the end of the year. That is, again, as a result of our confidence in the cash, the recurring cash generation nature of our business moving forward, as well as maintaining a focus on capital discipline, including non-cash working capital. Now, in this year, we unlocked a lot from the non-cash working capital for 2026 to help with the cash flow generation and the deleveraging goals.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Next year, we'll see a continued focus on non-cash working capital efficiency and allowing us to maintain our 2.5x deleveraging target for next year.

[Konark Gupta, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Scotiabank]

Okay. Thank you.

[Operator]

The next question is from Cameron Doerksen with National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.

[Cameron Doerksen, Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst at National Bank Financial]

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Just maybe to follow up on the cash question, just on the CapEx indicating modest decline year over year. Maybe just two quick questions on this. I mean, one, what is your expectation for maintenance CapEx for 2026? Should we expect something similar to what we saw in 2025? And then secondly, maybe you can just sort of detail where, I guess, the growth CapEx is going for this year. What specific areas are you investing in?

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Yep. Thank you for the question, Cameron. So effectively, we had adjusted our CapEx guidance to be CAD30 million higher than 2024. And we achieved that by hitting CAD 356 million this year. Total CapEx expected to be modestly lower than last year. Again, continued example, discipline capital approach. We invest organically to keep pace with the growth of our existing customers. Around 75% of next year's CapEx will be effectively to address some of the market needs going forward, 25% maintenance CapEx. Very similar to what we had this year. Generally speaking, these opportunities give us the highest returns, ramping up with the first years of deployment and reaching an average 20%-30% pre-tax incremental return on capital employed, right? We have experienced a more intensive multi-year deployment schedule recently.

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Now we're focused on cash generating, returning capital, and return on capital as well as long-term margin profile. A lot of discipline in our execution going forward next year, working lockstep with the market to make sure that we have the ability to address and reduce any CapEx if the market calls for it.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Just closing it off to Dino's comments, Cameron, look, we just come off, as Dino said, a multi-year investment cycle. We invest a lot in new training locations. We played offense during the downturn in a big way. We seized the opportunity. We took share. We helped customers outsource their training. We built new centers, support new programs, expanded a lot, particularly in business aircraft. Now we find ourselves in a place, a very attractive place, where we're now consolidating and operationalizing that opportunity. That really translates into the guidance we have that basically both CapEx volumes and CapEx intensity is going off its peak.

[Cameron Doerksen, Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst at National Bank Financial]

Okay. That's helpful. Maybe just to follow up, I mean, just thinking about the growth CapEx, I mean, largely driven by customer needs. I mean, should we think about the investment here as largely just adding simulators to existing training centers, or are there still some areas where you think you need a new training center either on the civil side or on the business jet side?

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Yeah. No. So right this year, most of the CapEx that we're spending is we're opening Vienna, and we're expanding in Orlando after the acquisition. There's a few Sims there. And we have a couple of Sims in one of our existing training centers in CAP. So there's no planned new facilities. It's really just growing some of the training operations that we've already—it's part of the business case. SimCom is a good example. The business case calls for a bunch of simulators. So these simulators are starting to be manufactured now.

[Cameron Doerksen, Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst at National Bank Financial]

Okay. That's very helpful. Thanks very much.

[Operator]

The next question is from Greg Konrad with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

[Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies]

Good morning.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

Good.

[Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies]

Maybe just to focus on civil backlog. I mean, you gave a little bit of color around flight operations. If we think about 2025 growth in backlog of 37%, maybe mid-single-digit revenue growth, it implies a much higher coverage of 2026 revenue than you've historically had. What shifted in backlog, either from a margin perspective or just recognition, just given the high coverage in 2026?

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

I'm a little bit confused about where you were at. You started with basically your question with, I think, flight service or flight scale in that regard. Maybe add a little bit more segment overall. Civil as a whole, you're talking about?

[Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies]

Yeah. Just given the strong backlog growth and revenue outlook for 2026, I mean, how you think about that backlog converting to revenue, just given there seems to be a much higher coverage for 2026 than you've historically had, just given the size of the backlog.

[Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations at CAE]

Yeah. Greg, it's Andrew. I think I know where you're coming from. One of the big components of the increase is the consolidation of the SimCom JV and the Flexjet contract, which is spread over 15 years. You can't sort of align the period of backlog increase one-to-one with revenue generation year one.

[Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies]

Perfect. Maybe just given on the civil side, you talked about the U.S. a little bit, but just given most of the training or most of the revenue in 2026 is coming from training, can you maybe just talk about regionally where you're seeing the biggest areas of strength within civil aviation?

[Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO at CAE]

Yes. I think in terms of by region, I would say Americas would be probably our weakest region right at the moment. Asia is probably our strongest because of, I guess, all the things that you're probably inferring in your question. There's a lot of new airlines, a lot of growth in some of our customers. In particular, in some of our customers, we're seeing some good growth. Business aircraft, I would say, relatively stable. I mean, we are expecting some improvement in utilization in business aircraft, but nothing outrageous. I think training demand is pretty strong across the board. Of course, the U.S. is the one which is a little bit more muted for us.

[Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Once again, any analyst with a question should press star then one. Our next question is from Tim James with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

[Tim James, Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at TD Cowen]

Thanks very much for taking my call. Good morning. Just one question, Marc. You were highlighting the great growth outlook now for Canadian defense spending, doubling, as you mentioned, by 2032. CAE already has just a great presence and a lot of very strong contracts in Canada. Can you talk about—and maybe it's early—but anything you can say in terms of what that big pickup in defense spending could mean in terms of additional opportunities for CAE and what those might look like, if you have any kind of sense for that at this point?

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

I can only give directional. You just look at what I talked about in terms of doubling of the size of the expenditure of the defense budget in Canada over the next few years. I mean, I feel very, very good that that is going to translate into significant growth for CAE on top of the already very significant level of order intake and actually revenue that we are generating right now from contracts in Canada. I think we will get what I would say is a disproportionate share because we actually literally are a strategic partner. Those are their words, strategic partner to the government of Canada as they want to operationalize the acceleration of defense spending in Canada. When you think about what militaries do when they are not in conflict—and hopefully, you are never in conflict—but what do militaries do? Basically, they train. They train.

[Marc Parent, President and CEO at CAE]

That's all they do: train, train, train. Obviously, that's what we do. You can see right off the bat that any capability that they deploy, whether it's new aircraft, whether it's new helicopters, it's new ships, it's new submarines, all that is going to require very significant and realistic training. As Canada's strategic partner, I think we are going to continue to do very well in that market in Canada specifically.

[Cameron Doerksen, Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst at National Bank Financial]

Okay. Great. Thank you.

[Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations at CAE]

Great. Operator, I think we'll bring the call to a close. I want to thank all participants for joining us this morning and remind you that a transcript of the call and Q&A will be made available on CAE's website. Thanks very much, and a good day to all.

[Operator]

This brings to a close today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating and have a pleasant day.

Participants

Executives

• Constantino Malatesta, Interim CFO
• Andrew Arnovitz, SVP of Investor Relations
• Marc Parent, President and CEO
• Nick Leontidis, COO

Analysts

• Tim James, Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at TD Cowen
• Konark Gupta, Director and Equity Research Analyst at Scotiabank
• Kevin Chiang, Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at CIBC
• Fadi Chamoun, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at BMO Capital Markets
• Cameron Doerksen, Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst at National Bank Financial
• Greg Konrad, SVP of Equity Research at Jefferies