Valero Energy Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
July 24, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • Positive Sentiment: Valero delivered record refining throughput in its U.S. Gulf Coast refineries in Q2, driving refining operating income of $1.3 billion and net income of $714 million.
  • Positive Sentiment: Global distillate inventories hit a 30-year low while Valero’s diesel sales volumes rose ~10% year-over-year, supporting robust diesel crack spreads.
  • Negative Sentiment: The renewable diesel segment reported a $79 million operating loss in Q2 versus a $112 million profit in the prior year, reflecting continued margin challenges.
  • Positive Sentiment: Valero approved a $230 million FCC optimization project at its St. Charles refinery to increase yields of high-value products, with start-up expected in 2026.
  • Positive Sentiment: The company ended Q2 with $4.5 billion in cash and returned $695 million to shareholders via dividends and buybacks, achieving a 52% payout ratio.
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Earnings Conference Call
Valero Energy Q2 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Greetings and welcome to Valero Energy Corp second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are on a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone requires operator assistance during the conference, please press Star 0 on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Homer Bhullar, Vice President, Investor Relations and Finance. Thank you. Please go ahead.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Good morning everyone and welcome to Valero Energy Corporation's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. With me today are Lane Riggs, our Chairman, CEO and President, Jason Fraser, our Executive Vice President and CFO, Gary Simmons, our Executive Vice President and COO, Rich Walsh, our Executive Vice President and General Counsel, and several other members of Valero's senior management team. If you have not received the earnings release and would like a copy, you can find one on our website at investorvalero.com. Also attached to the earnings release are tables that provide additional financial information on our business segments and reconciliations and disclosures for adjusted financial metrics mentioned on this call. If you have any questions after reviewing these tables, please feel free to contact our investor relations team after the call. I would now like to direct your attention to the forward-looking statement disclaimer contained in the press release.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

In summary, it says that statements in the press release and on this conference call that state the company's or management's expectations or predictions of the future are forward-looking statements intended to be covered by the safe harbor provisions under federal securities laws. There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ from our expectations, including those we have described in our earnings release and filings with the SEC. Now I will turn the call over to Lane for opening remarks.

Lane Riggs
Lane Riggs
Chairman, CEO, and President at Valero Energy Corp

Thank you, Homer, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to report solid financial results for the second quarter driven by our strong operational and commercial execution. In fact, we set a record for refining throughput rate in our U.S. Gulf Coast region in the second quarter, demonstrating the benefits of our investments in growth and optimization projects. Refining margins were supported by strong product demand against the backdrop of low product and inventories globally. In particular, early July, U.S. diesel inventories and days of supply are at the lowest level for the month in almost 30 years. We continue to see strong demand with our quarterly diesel sales volumes up approximately 10% over the same period last year and gasoline sales about the same as last year.

Lane Riggs
Lane Riggs
Chairman, CEO, and President at Valero Energy Corp

On the financial side, we continue to honor our commitment to shareholder returns with a payout ratio of 52% in the second quarter, and last week, we announced a quarterly cash dividend on our common stock of $1.13 per share. On the strategic front, we continue to progress the FCC unit optimization project at St. Charles that will enable the refinery to increase the yield of high valued products, including high octane alkylates. The project is expected to cost $230 million to start up in 2026. Looking ahead, we remain optimistic on refining fundamentals with several planned refinery closures this year and a limited announced capacity addition to beyond 2025. Additionally, we expect our sour crude oil differentials to widen as OPEC and Canada continue to increase production during the third and fourth quarters.

Lane Riggs
Lane Riggs
Chairman, CEO, and President at Valero Energy Corp

In closing, we remain committed to maintain our track record of commercial and operational excellence, which has been the hallmark of our strategy for over a decade. Our commitment remains underpinned by a strong balance sheet that also provides us plenty of financial flexibility. With that, Homer, I'll hand the call back to you.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Thanks, Lane. For the second quarter of 2025, net income attributable to Valero stockholders was $714 million, or $2.28 per share, compared to $880 million, or $2.71 per share for the second quarter of 2024. The Refining segment reported $1.3 billion of operating income for the second quarter of 2025 compared to $1.2 billion for 2024. Refining throughput volumes in the second quarter of 2025 averaged 2.9 million barrels per day, or 92% throughput capacity utilization. Refining cash operating expenses were $4.91 per barrel in the second quarter of 2025. The Renewable Diesel segment reported an operating loss of $79 million for the second quarter of 2025, compared to operating income of $112 million for the second quarter of 2024. Renewable Diesel sales volumes averaged 2.7 million gallons per day in the second quarter of 2025.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

The Ethanol segment reported $54 million of operating income for the second quarter of 2025 compared to $105 million for the second quarter of 2024. Ethanol production volumes averaged 4.6 million gallons per day in the second quarter of 2025. For the second quarter of 2025, GNA expenses were $220 million, net interest expense was $141 million and income tax expense was $279 million. Depreciation and amortization expense was $814 million, which includes approximately $100 million of incremental depreciation expense related to our plan to cease refining operations at our Benicia refinery by the end of April 2026. Net cash provided by operating activities was $936 million in the second quarter of 2025. Included in this amount was a $325 million unfavorable impact from working capital and $86 million of adjusted net cash used in operating activities associated with the other joint venture member share of DGD.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Excluding these items, adjusted net cash provided by operating activities was $1.3 billion. Regarding investing activities, we made $407 million of capital investments in the second quarter of 2025, of which $371 million was for sustaining the business, including costs for turnarounds, catalysts, and regulatory compliance, and the balance was for growing the business, excluding capital investments attributable to the other joint venture member share of DGD and other variable interest entities. Capital investments attributable to Valero were $399 million in the second quarter of 2025. Moving to financing activities, we returned $695 million to our stockholders in the second quarter of 2025, of which $354 million was paid as dividends and $341 million was for the purchase of approximately 2.6 million shares of common stock, resulting in a payout ratio of 52% for the quarter.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Year to date, we have returned over $1.3 billion through dividends and stock buybacks for a payout ratio of 60%. As Lane mentioned, on July 17th we announced a quarterly cash dividend on common stock of $1.13 per share. With respect to our balance sheet, we repaid the outstanding principal balance of $251 million of 2.85% senior notes that matured in April. We ended the quarter with $8.4 billion of total debt, $2.3 billion of total finance lease obligations, and $4.5 billion of cash and cash equivalents. The debt to capitalization ratio net of cash and cash equivalents was 19% as of June 30, 2025, and we ended the quarter well capitalized with $5.3 billion of available liquidity.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Exc.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Turning to guidance, we still expect capital investments attributable to Valero for 2025 to be approximately $2 billion, which includes expenditures for turnarounds, catalysts, regulatory compliance, and joint venture investments. About $1.6 billion of that is allocated to sustaining the business and the balance to growth. For modeling our third quarter operations, we expect refining throughput volumes to fall within the following ranges: Gulf Coast at 1.76-1.81 million barrels per day, Mid Continent at 430,000-450,000 barrels per day, West Coast at 240,000-260,000 barrels per day, and North Atlantic at 465,000-485,000 barrels per day. We expect refining cash operating expenses in the third quarter to be approximately $4.8 per barrel. With respect to the renewable diesel segment, we still expect sales volumes to be approximately 1.1 billion gallons in 2025, reflecting lower production volumes due to economics.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Operating expenses in 2025 should be $0.53 per gallon, which includes $0.24 per gallon for non-cash costs such as depreciation and amortization. Our ethanol segment is expected to produce 4.6 million gallons per day in the third quarter. Operating expenses should average $0.40 per gallon, which includes $0.05 per gallon for non-cash costs such as depreciation and amortization. For the third quarter, net interest expense should be about $135 million. Total depreciation and amortization expense in the third quarter should be approximately $810 million, which includes approximately $100 million of incremental depreciation expense related to our plan to cease refining operations at our Benicia refinery by the end of April 2026. We expect this incremental depreciation related to the Benicia refinery to be included in depreciation and amortization for the next three quarters, resulting in a quarterly earnings impact of approximately $0.25 per share based on current shares outstanding.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

For 2025, we still expect G&A expenses to be approximately $985 million. That concludes our opening remarks. Before we open the call to questions, please limit each turn in the Q&A to two questions. If you have more than two questions, please rejoin the queue as time permits to ensure other callers have time to ask their question.

Operator

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. If you would like to ask a question, please press Star one on your telephone keypad at this time. A confirmation tone will indicate that your line is in the question queue. You may press Star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up the handset before pressing the star keys again. That's Star one. To register a question at this time, our first question is coming from Theresa Chen of Barclays. Please go ahead.

Theresa Chen
Theresa Chen
Senior Analyst Midstream and Refining Equity Research at Barclays

Good morning. Now that we are halfway through the summer driving season, how is refined product demand trending across your footprint? Maybe just unpack some of Wayne's opening remarks about sales across your system. Are there any noticeable patterns or shifts? Additionally, what kind of signals are you observing in the export market?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Hey, good morning, Theresa, it's Gary. Overall, I'd tell you the fundamentals around refining continue to look very supportive. Total light product inventory remains below the five-year average range, below where we were last year at this time. And demand for transportation fuels remains robust not only here in the U.S. but also into our typical export markets. Our view is gasoline demand relatively flat to last year. It looks like vehicle miles traveled are up slightly year over year, but probably only up enough to offset efficiency gains in the automotive fleet. Not up enough to really create incremental demand. If you look at our wholesale volumes, they would also indicate flat year over year gasoline demand. In addition to relatively strong gasoline demand domestically, we've also seen good export demand to Latin America.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

And then on the supply side, you know, the transatlantic arb to ship gasoline from Europe to the United States has been closed for much of the year. When you combine relatively good demand with less supply coming from Europe, you would kind of expect inventory to be a little lower than last year. That's what we saw in the second quarter. Those factors ultimately resulted in a little stronger gasoline margin environment this year compared to last. Going forward, the transatlantic arb is marginally open, so supply seems adequate to meet demand. We're kind of getting to the end of driving season. We'll start RVP transition in some regions soon, so it's hard to see a lot of support for gasoline cracks moving forward.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Absent some type of supply disruption, we kind of expect gasoline cracks to follow typical seasonal patterns, remain around mid-cycle levels through the end of the year. Distillate. The story is much different though. You know where gasoline demand is expected to fall off some. We expect distillate demand to pick up first. We'll start to get into harvest season, see agricultural demand pick up, and then we'll transition to heating oil season. Overall diesel demand has continued to trend above last year's level. Really strong demand in the first quarter due to colder weather and then increased demand for refinery-produced diesel. With less imports of bio and renewable diesel in our system, diesel sales are currently trending about 3% above last year's level again. While domestic demand has been good, we see a strong pull of U.S. Gulf Coast distillate into the export markets.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

The exports really have kept inventory down near historic lows during a time where restocking typically occurs. We have seen diesel inventory gain in the last couple of weeks, but really that's just a result of an incredibly strong export market. In early June, as exports got really strong, freight rates spiked and it closed some of those export arbs. Freight rates have come back off. The arbs are open to export both to Latin America and Europe. With those arbs open, it's difficult to see how we get the normal build in diesel inventory that occurs in the third quarter. Diesel cracks have been strong with low inventory. We expect diesel cracks to remain strong heading into hurricane season. If we have some type of supply disruption, I think you'll see a pretty significant market reaction with inventories as low as they are.

Theresa Chen
Theresa Chen
Senior Analyst Midstream and Refining Equity Research at Barclays

Thank you, Gary. What is your near to medium term outlook for light heavy differentials? Taking into account the tailwind from incremental OPEC barrels coming to market, but also considering potential headwinds from production volatility, the unavailability of Venezuelan barrels, gum crude quality issues and so on. How do you think these factors play out?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, thus far, year to date, I think, you know, the quality differentials have certainly been a headwind for us. We thought coming into the year you'd see less demand with Lyondell going down, but that was kind of offset. The Venezuelan sanction pulled about 200,000 barrels a day out of the U.S. Gulf Coast market. You had the wildfires that took about 5 million barrels of June supply off the market. Going forward, we do think things will get better. It will probably be the fourth quarter before you really see that Canadian production has not only recovered from the wildfires, but it continues to grow. As you mentioned, OPEC unwinding their 1.9 million barrels a day of cuts by August.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Really, it appears that much of the ramp up in the oil production we haven't seen on the market yet so far because there was crude oil burn in the region for seasonal power demand. As we move out of summer, more of those barrels will make their way to the market. You know, early summer tensions in the Middle East also caused some countries to front end load fuel purchases that they use for power demand. Again, that will unwind, fuel coming back off to the market. As fuel comes back, that will support wider differentials as well. Additionally, in the fourth quarter with turnaround activity, you should see less demand for those barrels. All of those should really contribute to wider differentials in the fourth quarter. I think the only unknown here is really what happens with the Russian sanctions.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Thus far, you know, we haven't really seen much of an impact. If the sanctions are effective and cut some of the Russian barrels, that would obviously be bearish the differentials.

Theresa Chen
Theresa Chen
Senior Analyst Midstream and Refining Equity Research at Barclays

Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Manav Gupta of UBS. Please go ahead, team.

Manav Gupta
Manav Gupta
Executive Director at UBS

Just wanted to understand what's your outlook for the net capacity additions for the remaining part of the year and for 2026? Are you still seeing major capacity additions globally or do you think those things are slowing down and given the demand growth, we should be better positioned going ahead? If you could talk about that.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, Manav, this is Gary. You know, I think definitely when we look out on the horizon, there's not a lot of new capacity coming online. A lot of what new capacity there is is really more geared towards petrochemical production rather than making transportation fuels. If we look at next year, it looks like just over 400,000 barrels a day of new refining capacity coming online. You know, initially most consultants were forecasting around 800,000 barrels a day of total light product demand growth, which would have indicated, you know, significant tightening starting next year with some of the economic uncertainty, especially around tariffs. You know, forecasts have fallen off to where a lot of people are only forecasting around 400,000 barrels a day total light product demand growth.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

A lot of consultants are showing a lot of that demand growth being filled by a step change in renewable production. You know, I'm confident we'll see tighter supply demand balances. The question really is, when does this occur? Is it next year? Do we actually see some type of economic activity slowdown? And it isn't until 2027 that things really start to get tight. Thus far, you know, our view is the economy has been fairly resilient, demand for transportation fuels has remained strong. I guess I'm a little more optimistic about the economy. We'll have to see with all the uncertainty on renewables, whether we see a ramp up in renewable production or not. The other big factor in all this is will we see additional refinery rationalization? Although some refinery closures have been announced, certainly the recent announcement around the Lindsey refinery in the U.K.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

was fairly unexpected. Hard to believe there aren't others facing a similar situation with other refinery closure, too. Things could really tighten up a lot faster. The big driver here is really what happens to the economy. You're probably in a better position to assess that than I am.

Manav Gupta
Manav Gupta
Executive Director at UBS

A quick follow up is I was looking at your Gulf Coast capture. Now, that's where heavy light narrowness should hit the capture the hardest. The capture actually was over 92%. I'm trying to understand a few dynamics. What allowed you to deliver such strong capture? Coming back to the first question, if heavy lights do widen out, should we expect a tailwind to the Gulf Coast capture? The way your benchmark is constructed, those do not get reflected in the benchmark. If you could talk about that.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, Manav, this is Greg. I think you hit on some of the points related to heavy light and capture because we do include heavy grades in our reference for the Gulf Coast. As those move out and contract, that's picked up in the reference crack that we use. Not as big of an impact on capture rate because it's built into the indicator margin that we use on our performance in second quarter. A lot of the improvement was driven by really strong operating performance coming out of the heavy maintenance we had in the first quarter. That was really highlighted, if you remember, by Lane's comment about record quarterly throughput in that region. Good operating performance, we had strong commercial performance as well in that region, particularly on the product side. Good exports, great wholesale performance in that part of our business as well.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Those were the primary drivers for the Gulf Coast in the second quarter. Again, as those crude differentials widen out to the extent that they're in the indicator that we use, probably not as much of a factor when you think about the capture rate relative to our indicator.

Manav Gupta
Manav Gupta
Executive Director at UBS

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Neil Mehta of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Neil Mehta
Neil Mehta
Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs

Yeah. Good morning, team. I want to spend some time on return of capital.

Neil Mehta
Neil Mehta
Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs

You return $633 million in the first quarter or second quarter with a payout north of 70%.

Neil Mehta
Neil Mehta
Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs

Just your perspective on the sustainability of capital returns and how we should be thinking about the buyback in the back half of the year.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, Neil. Hey, it's Homer. I mean, maybe I'll just start with just the framework around buybacks. Right. It's guided by a number of things. Obviously, first and foremost, we've got our stated minimum commitment to an annual payout of 40%-50% of adjusted cash flow. Right. And so you should continue to consider that as non discretionary. We'll honor that in any sort of environment. Then we've got our target minimum cash position of $4 billion-$5 billion. And we're right at the midpoint there. So we're not looking to build more cash. Right. And as a result of that, consistent with what we've been saying for quite some time, you know, we'll continue to use all excess free cash flow to buy back shares. And as you highlighted, second quarter resulted in a payout of 52%.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Keep in mind though that we also used $251 million towards the notes that matured in April in addition to $325 million that was consumed while working capital. Right. So you know, looking forward with the balance sheet where it is and discipline around capital investments, I think you can continue to expect us to maintain this posture where all excess free cash is aimed at share buybacks longer term. I mean I don't know, you know, if you have the investor deck handy but we've got a slide in there. I think it's slide 11 that puts all of this into, you know, context actually reflecting our actual results. So if you look at the last 10 year period through 2024, total cash flow from operations was around $61 billion. And that includes changes in working capital which is roughly $6 billion a year.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

If you think about run rate capex right, $2 bilion-$2.5 billion. So $2.25 billion at the midpoint with $1.5 billion sustaining and then $500 million-$1 billion of growth. And layer on top you've got $1.4 billion or so to fund the dividend. Right. So $6 billion of annual cash flow from operations, $2.5 billion capex, $1.4 billion to dividend. That leaves over $2.3 billion for buybacks based on our actual results over the past 10 years. Hopefully that gives you some context.

Neil Mehta
Neil Mehta
Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs

Really helpful. Homer, the follow-up is around DGD. Obviously a lot of moving pieces and appears to be pretty tough, if not trough, conditions. What's the path back to mid-cycle here? How do you think about the evolution.

Neil Mehta
Neil Mehta
Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs

Of the business, and can you talk about your commitment to it?

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Hey Neil, this is Eric.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

I think you already said that it's in a lot of policy clarity, vagueness right now. I think you can see really the linchpin in all of this is going to be what the EPA says post their comment period that are due by August 8th. What they do in terms of setting the RVO and what they do in terms of SREs and if and any reallocations will set the D4 RIN market and then consequently hopefully set how the rest of the other markets will react versus the D4 RIN. I mean we see the LCFS market in California is slowly moving up after they pass their 9% obligation increase effective July 1st. We see that a lot. You know Europe continues to support its mandate for the 2% SAF requirement. We see the CFR in Canada is going to continue to go forward.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

You know, long term, there's still enough tailwind out there that says this segment will continue to be in demand. It's really just a question of when we see these credit prices start to move. You're starting to see the D4 RIN move up. You're starting to see it separate from the D6. The big question is going to be when you see fat prices adjust to these policies. Once these policies are clarified and once those fat prices start to disconnect, then I think you'll see the margins open up for DGD and you'll see more demand for DGD and renewables with the ongoing policy years.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

There.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Doug Leggett of Wolff Research. Please go ahead.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Thanks. Good morning everyone.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Guys, I think I got to.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Go back to refining school because you.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Guys are embarrassing us here with your.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Distillate yields versus your light sweet crude throughput.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

I wonder if you could help us.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Reconcile what's going on there. Obviously margins are heat. Margins were better than gas for most of Q2, I guess. When we look at the basically since 2024, I think your light crude is about 10% higher, but your distillate.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Yield is up materially as well. Great result.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Can you help us understand what's.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Going on there is my first question.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

I've got a quick follow up for Eric.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, Doug, this is Greg. I would tell you it's pretty simple. We've been for the most part in that period in max distillate production mode. Think about how we're adjusting the operation. We're maximizing the yield of jet fuel and diesel fuel. Even though you've got a crude slate that might be a bit lighter, we can do some adjusting within the downstream operation to try to make sure we get all the distillate molecules into that pool that we can. We've been pretty successful and effective at doing that in that timeframe.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Sorry for the part B here, but would I assume that that's part of the reason why your capture is doing so well?

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Certainly helps. It certainly, when you've got that strong distillate crack and then you're maximizing that yield, that certainly will have a positive impact on capture.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Thank you for that.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Eric, I wanted to follow up.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

On the earlier question, if you don't mind, just on renewable diesel and see if you can dumb it down for us. When you roll everything together and you.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Guys are obviously the lowest cost producer.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

With the best feedstock setup, do you see DGD net to Valero?

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

As free cash flow, positive on a sustainable basis.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

I think the answer to that is yes, like I said. It's going to take a little bit of clarity on what the EPA is going to do with RINs, because the numbers they're talking about doing will put a positive tailwind into DGD's production. To your point, you know, we still have the best market access, both from a feedstock standpoint, a certification of products, and access to all the different markets. It's still a low CI game. I think one of the things that everyone needs to keep in front of them is that Europe and the U.K. really only accept waste oil, low CI feedstocks, certified feedstocks.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

You know, as much as there's been a lot of talk about the support of domestic production and soybean oil and Canada's canola oil, those are not acceptable feedstocks to most of the customers that are really interested in lowering their carbon footprint. We're still the most advantaged from a feedstock standpoint. I think once you start to see these credit prices move, and like I said, we have seen LCFS and RIN prices moving higher, those factors in credit prices will continue to make DGD an advantaged platform. Long term, it will be a positive cash flow into Valero.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

If you can't make money, nobody can in this business.

Doug Leggett
Doug Leggett
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research

Thanks so much, guys.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

I appreciate the time.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Ryan Todd of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Thanks, Eric.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Maybe one more follow up on that.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Side of the business.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

I mean, it seems so far that your staff operations, the SAF operations have been going well. Can you maybe, you're eight or nine months into, you know, post startup of the conversion there or the expansion there.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Can you maybe talk about what you've?

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Seen so far, either operationally, what you've seen in terms of, you know, what's.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Maybe surprised or been as expected in terms of the geographic mix of demand?

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Pricing, et cetera, and how that market is evolving.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, thanks. I think one thing we discovered operationally that I might say was a pleasant surprise was our unit made SAF very, very well and it blended very, very well. Prior to our startup, we'd heard through others that had gone down this journey that it was very difficult to make. It was very difficult to blend, it was very difficult to make the certifications and satisfy logistics. We, you know, with the combination of DGD's gear, the quality of our project startup team and our overall project design, we've got a lot of capability on SAF as well as, you know, everything between SAF and, call it, traditional RD. Operationally this thing has been a positive. The logistics and blendability has been a positive. The ability to move this product through the Valero jet fuel system has been very effective.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

You know, I think, you know, if there is any sort of downward surprises, we thought there would be much more interest in this product, particularly from airlines. I think everyone is still feeling out this market. We're seeing, you know, a lot of interest in sales. Obviously the mandate in the EU and the U.K., there's some potential that they have underbought for the first half of the year and they may come back and try to make sure they're hitting their 2% blend in the back half of this year. We may see some sales pick up in the second half of this year as they stare at their end of year compliance target. You know, I think this market continues to grow. The demand continues to grow, the interest continues to grow. The interest in the voluntary credits associated with this continue to grow.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

That is very small volumes, but everyone's trying to explore that as a way to simplify their carbon offset plan by just going direct to DGD. I still see a lot of upside in that. The project is still returning. The returns on our project are still meeting our threshold targets. That's going very well. The credit prices have supported the making of the product. If I add on to that, because the next question, with the recent reconciliation bill narrowing the benefit of SAF to equal to RD, we still see premiums above that coming out of the market. As everyone figures out how to readjust with the changes in the PTC, we still see premiums for SAF over RD from the customer standpoint.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Great, thank you. Maybe a question for you, Lane. Sorry to ask, but I mean, there.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Are reports that the California government envisions themselves kind of like brokering a sale?

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Of the Benicia refinery.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Any comments or any thoughts on anything that could potentially change?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

That would change.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Your mind to close that asset next year?

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

Hey, this is Rich Walsh. You know, first, we don't respond to speculation in media reports, you know, along those lines. You know, nothing has changed in our plans, you know, regarding Benicia right now. Look, you know, there's been a lot of public discussion about reforming the market and in particular the regulatory environment in California to head off refinery closures. I think you guys all know the CEC has been tasked with evaluating refinery capacity on behalf of the state. I think they're working very hard to see what, if anything, they can do. You know, for our part, we've been in discussions with the CEC and other elected officials and policy officials regarding Benicia's future. I think there's a genuine desire for them to avoid the refinery closure. There's no solutions that have materialized, at least not from our perspective.

Ryan Todd
Ryan Todd
Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler

Great, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Paul Chang of Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Paul Chang
Paul Chang
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank

Hey guys. Good morning. The question that as Saudi is putting more barrel in the market, I assume there's going to be more of the medium sour grade like the Arab Medium. I'm wondering how you think it's going to impact on the global distillate yield as more of the medium sour is available? That's the first question.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Gary, or go ahead.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Hey, Paul, it's Greg.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Obviously, right, those grades have more distillate typically in them than some of the lighter grades. As we see those come into the market, you would expect that to have a positive impact on distillate yield overall, and as a result, distillate production would work up a bit. I do not have a good feel for the exact numbers for that, but there is no doubt those are grades that are more rich in distillate than most of the other crudes that we have run in their place over the last few years.

Paul Chang
Paul Chang
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank

To pinpoint an exact number, any field that you said a 2% increase, 5% or anything that you can share.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, yeah, Paul, I don't have those numbers off the top of my head. I'm sure you can contact Homer and we can talk about that more offline. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head.

Lane Riggs
Lane Riggs
Chairman, CEO, and President at Valero Energy Corp

This is Lane. I think the one thing to add to that is you got to think about the markets you're putting diesel into and the specs around it, whether they're high cetane or ultra low sulfur diesel. In a global sense, the incremental diesel is, is there open capacity for the higher valued markets where the stuff's pointed versus does the incremental diesel get produced in the world. As these grades get more sour and more heavy, you know, they end up just sort of as heavy or, you know, in the marine market. That's sort of one of the things you got to consider with your, the way you're thinking about it.

Paul Chang
Paul Chang
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank

Okay, great. The second question I think is for Eric. Eric, I mean with the PTC and everything that is more in favor of domestic production and also keeping in the local market? I assume so. Is that still economic for us to export out of DGD into, I know that previously you guys exported quite a lot to Europe. So are those still economic or is the economic now saying that it's going to be majority of the DGD production will be staying local?

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, I think so. We do see the markets in Canada, EU, U.K. and California are still attractive for foreign feedstocks. The challenge that we have is we haven't, you know, most of this is still trading on news. You have seen as the EPA will talk about what they're doing with the RIN, you'll see most of the fat prices are tracking the D4 RIN. Even though fat prices have moved up, credit prices are slowly moving up. They haven't separated yet to reflect the impacts of some of the other policy comments on lower PTC, half RIN in the RVO, and really a lot of the tariffs that have been placed on foreign feedstocks. At some point those markets will have to adjust.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

I think as the policies get papered, you know, get finalized and papered, you will see there will have to be some reflection in foreign feedstock prices versus domestic feedstock prices to continue to keep, you know, to continue meeting the demand of all those other markets. Like I said before, it's still a low CI game and a lot of the customers do not want vegetable oil as their feedstock base. There will be an increase in the RIN. There will be support of vegetable feedstocks feeding into the RIN. When you go into LCFS markets or markets that are based on LCFS and CI, it's still going to want to pull low CI feedstocks. You will have to see the market adjust for that. I think we're starting to see some of those prices move. It's probably going to take some.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Time.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

For these credit prices to increase based on the length in the credit banks for both RINs and LCFS. I think as those banks slowly start to get consumed, the credit prices will move up. You'll start to see foreign feedstocks disconnect from domestic feedstocks. Both of them need to disconnect from the D4 RIN in order for anyone to increase production. Particularly if you look at a lot of the veg oil BD players, if soybean oil and the D4 RIN just track, there is no margin to run yet. I think once you see whatever the EPA comes out with with RVO and SREs, that will determine when you start seeing BD and RD start to increase in production.

Paul Chang
Paul Chang
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank

Eric, can we confirm that what percentage of your DGD RD is currently export to Europe and Canada?

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, we're not going to share that level of detail, Paul, but you know, we are the largest exporter and really, you know, one of the largest producers of SAF. And so we're definitely maxing out what we can sell into those markets. Yeah, you know that that will always shift around based on feedstock prices and credit prices.

Paul Chang
Paul Chang
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank

Okay, we do. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Paul Sankey of Sankey Research. Please go ahead.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Morning, everyone.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Can you hear me?

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah,

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

hey, everyone.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

We've had good high levels of throughput in U.S. refining this year, despite the shutdowns. Can you just talk a little bit about that? It's been very fairly steady and very high. I just wondered what the components of that were as well as the outlook for the second half, in your view, perhaps ignoring hurricane risk and stuff, just the general turnaround outlook for the second half. The follow up is a very interesting moment in history with the U.S. becoming a net exporter to Nigeria. Could you just, could you just.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Talk.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

A little bit about the impact of.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Nigerian refining on Atlantic Basin markets.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Interesting stuff.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Hey, Paul.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Paul, it's Greg.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

You.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

I'll.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

I think I'll talk about the first one. Just repeat that for me again. What part are you looking at?

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

With the shutdown of Lyondell and.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Stuff, we've just seen, you know, what is it, 17.5 million of throughputs in U.S. refining seems like a high number that's been very steady, actually. I just. It's a good thing. I just wondered how come we're so high and holding so high from your perspective and from an industry perspective, and the follow through is the second half turnarounds and whether or not we'll really sustain this kind of throughput.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Right, okay.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, I think throughput's been real strong, particularly in the Gulf Coast. Probably a good indication of people coming out of turnaround and running.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

One of the things.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

we look at a lot of times is it's been a relatively mild summer weather wise, which, you know, a lot of times as you get hotter and hotter, you start to hit some limitations operationally at lower rates and we haven't seen that. I think you've been able to see the industry hold that at pretty strong performance. Obviously not a lot of things have been breaking, so that keeps utilization up. As we get to later parts of the summer, we'll see if warmer weather starts to creep in and we start to see some of those rates tail off. As far as turnarounds in the third quarter, you know, it's always hard to see where the industry goes. I don't think we have any unique insight into that relative to what you can read elsewhere.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

It looks like today turnarounds are probably pegged to be a little bit below average. What we typically see though is as we get closer, more work starts to get known and identified in the plan. We'll see where that ultimately lands. I think probably you want to take the other half, Gary?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

In Nigeria, I think, you know, it's been. There's a lot in the press that obviously the Dangote refineries had a lot of trouble bringing up their resid FCC. You know, they're running WTI. We see them continue to be in the market marketing atmospheric tower bottoms, which is, you know, an indication that that resid FCC is not running. Right. Whenever that's the case, they're probably going to push themselves to the lightest diet they can because they don't have that resid destruction capability. Ultimately, you know, when they get the resid FCC fixed, you would expect them to start to transition to a little heavier diet and run more Nigerian grades.

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

They're still sucking in gasoline then?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yes.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Cool.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Doug Leggett's got me thinking about the school of refining. I think it's the school of refining.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Hard knocks, right?

Paul Sankey
Independent Analyst at Sankey Research

Thanks guys.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Thanks, Paul.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Philip Jungwirth of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Thanks. Good morning. You mentioned in the earlier commentary gasoline.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Demand being flat despite vehicle mileage being up. Not a new story here, but wondering if there's been any shift in your.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Medium term outlook for efficiency gains in.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Light vehicle fleet given consumer preference or government policy incentives, and any reason we could see a slowdown in gains here.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

I think it's definitely a potential, you know, you should see less EV penetration than what we have been seeing overall though. You know, the bigger impact in our models has always been kind of the impact of the CAFE standards and vehicles becoming more efficient. We don't see that, you know, changing drastically going forward.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Okay, great. We're all familiar with the affordability conversation in California and the state's tone towards shifting to insure supply. I know you just have Pembroke in.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

The U.K., but wondering what does the.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Affordability or supply conversation look like here or in broader Europe, given we continue to see closures here too. You mentioned the Lindsey bankruptcy earlier. Really just trying to think about it in terms of the competitive dynamic given.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

I know you don't have a huge footprint here.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

I would tell you, you know, the U.K. is a net importer of diesel. The Lindsey refinery closure probably does not impact that much because diesel price is largely set by import parity. You know, at least it looks to us like Lindsey made about 50,000 barrels a day of gasoline. About 60% of that remained in the U.K. Certainly for our Pembroke asset, you know, some of our best netback barrels are those that we sell into the local market. As Lindsey exits, we will be trying to fill that void which will make less available for exports to markets like California.

Philip Jungwirth
Philip Jungwirth
Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Joe Latch of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Great, thanks. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Eric, I want to go back.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

To RD and results in the first.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Excuse me. In the second quarter, while they were still challenged, they improved quarter over quarter.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

I was hoping you could unpack some.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Of the drivers here.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

I know the indicator was lower, but I think that was offset by a.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Greater recognition of the PTC and continued ramp in SAF sales.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Just hoping you could unpack that.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah. I think one thing, in the first quarter we had a couple outages on DGD1, DGD2 for catalyst changes. There was a, you know, we had better volume in the second quarter as part of that. I think, you know, we also had a full quarter of PTC capture on eligible feedstocks versus the first quarter. We adjusted our operations to begin capturing the PTC about mid February. You only got about half a quarter in the first quarter. The second quarter had full PTC capture for the eligible feedstocks and for our SAF. You know, we had a lot more income related to those factors in the second quarter. I think the offset there is, you know, we're still adjusting to all the different tariffs that are constantly moving around. We do see that the quarter on quarter is continuing to improve.

Eric Fisher
Eric Fisher
SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale at Valero Energy Corp

Like I said, as we continue to see these credit prices creeping up, I'm hoping you'll see in the third quarter that we'll continue this trend for the rest of the year.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Great, thanks. With the passage of the.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Tax bill a couple weeks ago, can.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

You talk to any benefits to Valero?

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

That we should be mindful of, anything around bonus depreciation?

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Thank you.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, hey, Joe, it's Homer. The reinstatement of full expensing should lower our overall cash tax liability in earlier years versus, you know, typical MACRS depreciation schedule. Growth CapEx should definitely be eligible for bonus depreciation. A lot of our sustaining CapEx should also be eligible with the exception of turnaround capital, which we already expense. The magnitude of the benefit obviously depends on our CapEx going forward, but that would be one, at least from a tax standpoint. Benefit, Rich can talk about some of the other stuff.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, I mean, the other things that are out there that are just kind of directionally helpful is, you know, the federal EV tax credits go away. And then I think you also see limitations on the CAFE penalty for the autos, which I think kind of opens the door for them to really just try to meet consumer demands, which is, you know, generally for bigger vehicles and puts ICE engines on a more, you know, comparable footing to EVs, and so you do not have that same level of pressure, you know, to lower fuel economy. That should also directionally be a collateral benefit that comes out of this bill that we would expect to see manifest over the following years.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

Great. Thank you, guys.

Joe Laetsch
Joe Laetsch
EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley

I appreciate it.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is coming from Matthew Blair of Tudor, Pickering, Holt. Please go ahead.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Thanks and good morning.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

We thought the results in the North.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Atlantic were pretty strong and definitely better than our expectations. I think capture moved up quarter over quarter despite tighter Syncrude diffs and the Pembroke turnaround.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Could you talk about what helped?

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

You out in the North Atlantic in Q2?

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah, this is Greg. We did have a fair amount of maintenance in the second quarter. Most of that maintenance impacted throughput. You could see that in the lower throughput that we had for the quarter, not so much on capture. We had, like we talked about, in the Gulf Coast, really strong commercial margins and contributions in that region as well. That created the kind of consistent results versus what we had seen in the prior quarter.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Our turnaround was in Quebec, right?

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Turnaround was in Quebec. Yeah. Pembroke ran well, actually, kind of.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

It's a theme for our system.

Greg Bram
Greg Bram
EVP at Valero Energy Corp

Our operations really was strong across the system, including North Atlantic.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Sounds good.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

The RVO proposal, you know, it has this potential SRE reallocation where the larger refineries would have to potentially pay for the SREs granted to the smaller refineries.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

You know, it seems like it could.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Be, you know, extra hundreds of millions for Valero if that goes through.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

So, you know, I guess, one, how.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Likely do you think that proposal would be to actually be in the final proposal? And then two, you know, it's generally accepted that the RVO is passed along in the crack. Do you think that the extra reallocation costs would also be passed along in the crack as well?

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

This is Rich Walsh. Let me take an effort to respond to that. You know, I think without you getting too deep into this, you know, I think you need to understand the SREs were originally coming out of an exemption that was expired in 2011. And, you know, following that expiration, the Department of Energy was obligated to look at whether or not these, you know, SREs were necessary because the RFS was creating disproportionate harm or impact to the small refiners. And the DOE concluded that it was not impacting small refiners. Today, you know, what we're talking about is extensions from a 2011 exemption, and it requires that these small refiners show a unique and disproportionate economic harm caused by the RFS itself.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

Like what you're alluding to here, you know, in today's market, the RIN obligation is equally applied across the whole sector, and it's embedded in all the refinery margins. I think EPA and DOE have repeatedly confirmed this with their own analysis. While the EPA can't categorically deny all SREs, I believe it's going to be really challenging for these small refiners to make their legal case, you know, for the RFS is uniquely harming them. My thought process is that you're not going to see a lot of SREs be granted by EPA, or at least if you do, you're going to see a lot of legal challenges to that. In terms of the, you know, in terms of the RFS, I mean, remember that the RVO, you know, came out, and right after it came out, there were a whole bunch of changes that happened.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

We had tariffs, we had restriction on foreign feedstocks, you know, RIN for foreign imports having to be cut in half. I think, you know, you're going to see a lot of, you know, a lot of comments coming in in the proposed process. I think EPA is going to have to look really hard at.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

You.

Rich Lashway
Rich Lashway
EVP and General Counsel at Valero Energy Corp

Know, the RVO and have to think about what they got to do to revise it to make it realistic. I think those are the things that will kind of play out.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Sounds good.

Matthew Blair
Matthew Blair
Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Our final question today is coming from Jason Gabelman of Cowen. Please go ahead.

Jason Gabelman
Jason Gabelman
Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen

Yeah.

Jason Gabelman
Jason Gabelman
Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen

Hey, morning. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to go back to the commentary that you provided on the distillate outlook and appreciate all of the discussion around North American dynamics. It seems like some of the output from other regions is a bit lower. I wanted to get your thoughts on to the extent that that is transitory in nature. Things like lower net exports out of Spain because of the power outages. It seems like Middle East diesel exports are down a lot. Not sure if that is structural or not. Just wondering if you could provide your thoughts on things going on in other parts of the world.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Yeah.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Jason, this is Gary. I think, you know, obviously the strength in diesel is due to low inventories. July, we've been trending at historic low type inventories. I would say a lot of that really started late last year. You know, late last year we had a relatively weak refinery market margin environment. Based on where inventories were, I would say that the margin environment was too weak and that led lower refinery utilization, which limited diesel inventories from restocking as they typically do. We had a colder winter which raised heating oil demand and further depleted inventory. Heading into the first quarter, we have had some refinery shutdowns and then some of the new capacity that come online has really struggled to come up to Florida. I think supply demand balances are certainly tighter than expectations based on projected net capacity additions.

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

A shift we've had in 2024 as jet demand increased. It's incentivized refiners to produce jet, which has come at the expense of diesel in general. One of the things we've been talking about is refiners are running lighter crude diets and that was exacerbated by the Venezuelan sanctions and Canadian wildfires. With tight quality differentials, the incentive to run lighter crudes results in lower distillate yields. Another factor here is with the poor renewable and biodiesel margins, they resulted in lower production of those products, which has increased the demand for conventional diesel as well. I think all those factors have come into play to where we are on the low inventories today.

Jason Gabelman
Jason Gabelman
Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen

Okay, thanks. Then my other one, I'm going to ask something else that's already been asked, but a bit more specific on the crude quality differentials that you expect to widen out with OPEC adding barrels. I guess there's been some reporting recently that China wants to stockpile crude inventories in the back half of the year and OPEC tends to price things more attractively to Asian markets than to U.S. markets. How much of these Middle East barrels do you think will flow to North America and really influence crude quality dips in the back half of the year?

Gary Simmons
Gary Simmons
EVP and COO at Valero Energy Corp

Jason, I can't say we have a lot of insight into what's going on in China. I don't know their plans in terms of restocking inventory. I can tell you that we really haven't been buying much crude from historic partners in the Middle East for quite some time. We have reinstated with them. You know, the fact that they're re-engaging with us tells me that they plan on some of the production making its way to the U.S. I am confident we will see some of those barrels.

Jason Gabelman
Jason Gabelman
Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen

Okay, great.

Jason Gabelman
Jason Gabelman
Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen

Thanks for the answers.

Operator

Thank you. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Bhullar for closing comments.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Thank you, Donna. Appreciate everyone joining us today. As always, please feel free to contact the IR team if you have any additional questions.

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Questions?

Homer Bhullar
Homer Bhullar
VP of Investor Relations and Finance at Valero Energy Corp

Thanks again and have a great day everyone.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time and enjoy the rest of your day.

Executives
    • Rich Lashway
      Rich Lashway
      EVP and General Counsel
    • Eric Fisher
      Eric Fisher
      SVP Product Supply, Trading and Wholesale
    • Lane Riggs
      Lane Riggs
      Chairman, CEO, and President
    • Homer Bhullar
      Homer Bhullar
      VP of Investor Relations and Finance
    • Greg Bram
      Greg Bram
      EVP
    • Gary Simmons
      Gary Simmons
      EVP and COO
Analysts
    • Philip Jungwirth
      Managing Director at BMO Capital Markets
    • Analyst
    • Neil Mehta
      Head of Americas Natural Resources Equity Research at Goldman Sachs
    • Doug Leggett
      Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Wolfe Research
    • Paul Sankey
      Independent Analyst at Sankey Research
    • Paul Chang
      Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst at Scotiabank
    • Jason Gabelman
      Managing Director and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Cowen
    • Matthew Blair
      Managing Director and Analyst Equity Research at Tudor, Pickering, Holt
    • Manav Gupta
      Executive Director at UBS
    • Joe Laetsch
      EVP and Analyst Energy Equity Research at Morgan Stanley
    • Theresa Chen
      Senior Analyst Midstream and Refining Equity Research at Barclays
    • Ryan Todd
      Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst at Piper Sandler
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