Kratos Defense & Security Solutions Q2 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
August 4, 2026

Key Takeaways

  • Positive Sentiment: Kratos reported Q2 revenue of $458.8 million, up 19.1% organically year over year, while adjusted EBITDA of $38.2 million exceeded guidance. Management raised its full-year 2026 organic revenue growth outlook to 19%-23% and expects further growth and margin expansion in the second half and into 2027.
  • Positive Sentiment: Hypersonics is expected to remain a major growth driver, with revenue projected to rise from approximately $200 million in 2025 to $400 million in 2026 and at least $700 million in 2027. The company cited new awards, approximately $400 million in recent hypersonic and related funding, and an operational Indiana integration facility supporting higher production rates.
  • Positive Sentiment: Kratos is preparing for substantial engine demand tied to low-cost cruise missiles and future JASSM/LRASM production. It has begun ordering components for 3,000 Spartan turbojet engines targeted for 2027 and plans to support an additional 5,000 in 2028, while its GE turbofan partnership is expected to enter production beginning in 2028.
  • Positive Sentiment: The company highlighted expanding opportunities across space, counter-UAS, directed energy, and unmanned systems, including a $160 million initial directed-energy award, a $100 million space-domain-awareness production award, and expected additional Valkyrie and Marine Corps orders. Management also cited potential international demand, including Taiwan-related Tactical Firejet and Valkyrie opportunities.
  • Negative Sentiment: Cash flow was pressured by rapid growth and investment, with Q2 operating cash flow of negative $11 million and free cash flow of negative $18.9 million. Total 2026 investment is expected to remain elevated at approximately $250 million-$270 million, while the stronger Israeli shekel is forecast to reduce full-year EBITDA by roughly $5 million-$7 million.
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Earnings Conference Call
Kratos Defense & Security Solutions Q2 2026
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Hello, welcome to Kratos Defense & Security Solutions' second quarter 2026 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in listen only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask the question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. I would now like to hand the conference over to Marie Mendoza, VP General Counsel. You may begin.

Marie Mendoza
Marie Mendoza
VP General Counsel at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the Kratos Defense & Security Solutions second quarter 2026 conference call. With me today is Eric DeMarco, Kratos' President and Chief Executive Officer, and Deanna Lund, Kratos' Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin the substance of today's call, I'd like everyone to please take note of the safe harbor paragraph that is included at the end of today's press release. This paragraph emphasizes the major uncertainties and risks inherent in the forward-looking statements we will make this afternoon. Please keep these uncertainties and risks in mind as we discuss future strategic initiatives, potential market opportunities, operational outlook, financial guidance, and other forward-looking statements during today's call. Today's call will also include a discussion of non-GAAP financial measures, as that term is defined in Regulation G.

Marie Mendoza
Marie Mendoza
VP General Counsel at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Non-GAAP financial measures should not be considered in isolation from or as a substitute for financial information presented in compliance with GAAP. Accordingly, at the end of today's press release, we have provided a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the company's financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP. Eric?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Thank you, Marie. Kratos' second quarter results reflect the execution of the Kratos team and that our strategy, including making internally funded investments, be first to market with relevant hardware and software that is engineered upfront for affordable mass production, is aligned with the Department of Defense's priorities. Representative of this alignment, Kratos' last 12-month book-to-bill ratio of 1.3:1, total last 12-month bookings of $1.99 billion, the number of opportunities for Kratos continuing to increase with the bid and proposal pipeline of $15 billion now, and our business momentum forecast to accelerate into the second half of this year and continuing to 2027. Kratos' second quarter year-over-year organic growth rate was 19.1%. We are forecasting third quarter organic growth of approximately 19%-25%, and we are forecasting fourth quarter year-over-year organic growth of approximately 19%-31%.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We are increasing our forecasted full year 2026 organic revenue growth up to 19%-23%. I am emphasizing that these are all organic growth numbers. Kratos' EBITDA margins also are increasing and are forecast to continue to increase in the second half of 2026 and into 2027 as the business scales, production increases, and we realize financial leverage on our fixed infrastructure cost. We are generating and forecasting for increased margins while we are making significant investments as we pursue large new Department of Defense opportunities that are being presented to us, and also with the recent strength of the shekel adversely impacting our Israeli operations profitability. We begin the second half of 2026 and look forward to 2027. We are more confident than ever in Kratos' future prospects, including for the following reasons.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We have recently received new hypersonic system program awards, including Kraken One, Kraken Two, and Nemesis. We have received a new directed energy C-UAS system program award with an initial value of approximately $160 million. We have received a new space domain awareness system production award with an initial value of approximately $100 million. The Space Force is now receiving a new EW system that includes Kratos hardware. We have recently received approximately $400 million in new hypersonic and other funding, and we expect to receive significant additional funding in the second half of this year. We hope to announce shortly a successful recent Kratos rocket system flight event directly related to missile defense, and we have been recently informed that we have received a new contract for a missile system program of record.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The Pentagon has requested multi-year procurement authority for multiple munitions and missiles, including PrSM, AMRAAM, JASSM, LRASM, TLAM and MF-T, THAAD, Patriot, low-cost hypersonic strike systems, family of affordable mass missiles, and low-cost containerized cruise missiles. These are all Kratos-supported programs or programs that we are positioning to support in the future. Why is this significant? The family of affordable mass missiles, the FAM program, for example, which the Air Force's Future Years Defense Plan, or FYDP, calls for 27,000 low-cost cruise missiles, has been a top strategic priority of Kratos' jet engine initiative, and it's now happening. The Pentagon is also looking to acquire 10,000 cruise missiles under the low-cost containerized munitions program, another low-cost missile opportunity Kratos has been targeting for our engines.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Other new low-cost cruise missile programs Kratos is supporting or positioned for include ERAM, ETV, Ground Launched Cruise Missile, and JDAM-LR, together representing an estimated potential opportunity for tens of thousands of Kratos small turbojet engines. We believe that JDAM-LR alone, which includes a Kratos engine, could be one of the largest single opportunities for our company, with the potential for tens of thousands of systems by itself. As a result, we are currently placing initial orders with our supply chain for the components for 3,000 small Kratos TDI Spartan turbojet engines we expect to produce for customers in 2027, and we currently plan to order components during 2027 for an additional 5,000 engines expected to produce for customers in 2028. The average selling price of a Kratos Spartan engine, this is a turbojet, is approximately $50,000.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We will produce the Kratos Spartan turbojet engines in our new, now operational state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in Michigan. In addition to these low-cost cruise missile systems, it was reported the Air Force is looking to acquire over 11,000 JASSM and LRASM missiles over the next six or seven years. This is an opportunity Kratos's BladeWorks Turbofan engine family and our partner, General Electric Aerospace, have been pursuing. Kratos's new BladeWorks facility in Oklahoma, where we recently broke ground and where we plan to produce these turbofans, is expected to be operational next summer, which schedule we are closely coordinating with our partner and the customer. We currently plan on turning on our BladeWorks turbofan engine supply chain in either Q4 of this year or Q1 of next so we can meet future customer required delivery schedules.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Additionally, Kratos's partner, GE, has recently revealed a new small turbofan design optimized for the cost profile of the CCA market, sized for a range of mission applications. We are expecting Kratos's engine business to be one of our company's largest and fastest-growing over the coming years. Kratos's hypersonic business, which generated approximately $200 million in revenue in 2025, and we are currently tracking for $400 million in 2026, increasing to at least $700 million in 2027, is positioned to become Kratos's largest business, with significant increased government funding in the hypersonic area expected for the foreseeable future. We expect to begin receiving the first of the 120 solid rocket motors we previously procured in Q3 this year. With Kratos's new hypersonic system integration facility in Indiana operational, we see these as key elements of our hypersonic business' expected future growth trajectories.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Kratos's hypersonic and rocket systems business has several additional large new opportunities we are pursuing, including certain in source selection, which we expect to be awarded by the end of this year. We are confident in our hypersonic business's forecasted growth trajectory, including based on the several hundred million in funding we recently received. Also, it was recently reported that the MACH-TB program funding over the next five years, as reflected in the Department's budget justification documents, is approximately $7 billion. An additional data point on why we believe that Kratos's hypersonic business will be a primary future growth driver for Kratos for the foreseeable future is the threat, as it was recently reported that using U.S. intelligence estimates that China could have approximately 4,000 hypersonic missiles by 2035, and Russia could have 1,000.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

There is not only a drone, missile, and space arms race underway, but also a hypersonic arms race, each of which Kratos intends on supporting the Department to win. Kratos's microwave electronics and SATCOM business, headquartered in Israel, is working with the Israeli MOD and our partners—Israel Aerospace Industries, Rafael, and Elbit—to replenish stockpiles of advanced weapons, interceptors, SATCOM, and other assets used in the Iran conflict. Kratos has over 700 employees in Israel, and we are working on and have access to certain of the highest technology, battle-proven systems in the world. Kratos' Israeli employees, business partners, and presence is a clear differentiator for our company globally. Kratos' satellite C2 and space domain awareness business, our company's largest, is also rapidly growing and expecting significant future margin expansion, with space having never been more important for global security and as space increasingly becomes a war-fighting domain.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

On the commercial side, Kratos' relationship with our partner, global satellite operator SES, is outstanding, with SES being an industry-leading technology company with a future technology and business roadmap that is truly exciting for SES, its customers, industry, and for Kratos. Kratos' industrial gas turbine business area continues to ramp; it is currently one of the fastest-growing business areas in our company. With certain industrial gas turbines, we are working on being air-cooled, which we believe is truly differentiating in the market. Kratos' unmanned systems business had a solid Q2, and we expect to receive an additional Marine Corps Valkyrie order by the end of this year. It was reported that in recently released Marine Corps budget justification documents, that the Marines plan to spend $1.28 billion on their CCA program over the relevant five-year period.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Kratos Valkyries are in Europe with our partner, Airbus, and we continue to work with a number of customers on Tactical Firejet, including Taiwan. It was recently reported that Taiwan is planning to adopt a new version of the Valkyrie, in addition to its Tactical Firejet initiative, Mighty Hornet. Certain Kratos jet drones are now flying with Kratos jet engines, increasing performance, capability, and time to market for our customers. The number of opportunities that Kratos has across our company has never been stronger and continues to increase both in the United States and internationally. The Department of Defense is looking for companies like Kratos to invest, move rapidly, mass-produce, and field a product fast in large quantities at a practical cost, Kratos is stepping up and executing.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Kratos is currently in an investment phase aligned with the department's re-industrialization initiative, which is related to the number of new long-term program opportunities we're receiving. We're focused on organic growth, execution, winning large new programs, supporting the United States and the Department of Defense, and generating a return for our investors. Deanna.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Thank you, Eric. Good afternoon. In summary, our second-quarter performance exceeded our forecasted revenue and EBITDA targets. As Eric mentioned, we continue to be on track to meet our previously reported full-year 2026 revenue goal of approximately 15%-20% of organic revenue growth and approximately 100 basis point improvement in adjusted EBITDA margin performance from our reported 2025 operating results. Revenues for the second quarter were $458.8 million, above our estimated range of $400 million-$410 million, with a consolidated organic growth rate of 19.1%, comprised of an organic growth rate of 22% in our KGS segment and 8.1% in our unmanned system segment. Notable year-over-year organic revenue growth in our KGS segment included our defense rocket support, turbine technologies, microwave products, and space training and cyber businesses, with organic revenue growth rates of 50.2%, 43.3%, 29.5%, and 8.7%, respectively.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter was $38.2 million above the high end of our estimated range of $30 million-$35 million, reflecting the increased revenue and revenue mix. Unmanned Systems second quarter 2026 revenue was up $5.9 million or 8.1% organically, with the increase primarily driven by Valkyrie-related activities. KGS's second quarter 2026 revenue was up $101.4 million year-over-year from the second quarter of 2025, with organic revenue growth of 22%, excluding the impact of the recent acquisitions of Nomad and Orbit, which contributed $40.2 million.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Second-quarter 2026 cash flow used in operations was $11 million, primarily reflecting the working capital requirements related to the revenue growth impact in our receivables by approximately $59 million and increases in inventory of approximately $10 million and increases in prepaid and other assets of approximately $14 million, primarily reflecting prepayments for long-lead materials as well as investments we are continuing to make related to certain development initiatives in our Unmanned Systems, Rocket Systems, and Space and Satellite businesses. Free cash flow used in operations for the second quarter of 2026 was $18.9 million, after reflecting funding of $17.2 million of capital expenditures and net of $9.3 million in proceeds from the sale of Valkyries, which were reported as company-owned capital assets and previously classified as capital expenditures when manufactured, and therefore reflected as an inflow in investing activities when sold.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

As we planned, we are continuing to make investments to expand and build out certain of our manufacturing and production facilities in our Microwave Products, Rocket Systems, Hypersonic and Jet Engine businesses to meet existing and anticipated customer orders and requirements and investing in related new machinery, equipment, and systems. Consolidated DSOs or Days Sales Outstanding decreased from 130 days during the first quarter of 2026 to 114 days during the second quarter of 2026, primarily reflecting the achievement of billing milestone events. Our contract mix for the second quarter of 2026 was 67% fixed price, 29% cost-plus, and 4% time-and-material contracts.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Revenues generated from contracts with the U.S. federal government during the second quarter of 2026 were approximately 69%, including revenues generated from contracts with the DoD, non-DoD federal government agencies, and foreign military sales contracts, and 20% generated from foreign customers and 11% generated from commercial and state and local entities. Moving on to financial guidance. Our financial guidance we provided today includes our expectations and assumptions for our supply chains execution, the impact of employee sourcing, hiring, retention, and the related cost.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Our third quarter 2026 revenue guidance reflects the estimated revenue mix and estimated leverage on elevated administrative, manufacturing overhead, and bid and proposal costs that we have ramped in the business to support the forecasted full-year 2026 growth, including on our microwave products Israeli business, which is being adversely impacted by the strength of the Israeli shekel versus the U.S. dollars, as we are paid in U.S. dollars for work performed that pay our vendors and workforce in shekels. Simply stated, Kratos' second quarter and six months ended adjusted EBITDA would have been $2.5 million and $2.8 million higher respectively if the increase in the shekel over the past six months had not occurred.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Our forecast for the full year includes an estimated impact of approximately $5 million-$7 million negative impact to EBITDA related to the continued estimated impact of the strength of the shekel. Our third quarter revenue guidance of $460 million-$480 million reflects estimated organic revenue growth of approximately 19%-25% as compared to the third quarter of 2025. Our revised full-year cash flow guidance has been updated to include the working capital requirements related to the recent decision to commence procurement of the materials and equipment in the third and fourth quarters to ramp our production of jet engines to 3,000 in 2027 to address the demand for engines for small cruise missiles.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Also includes the shift in timing of construction and procurement of related machinery and equipment, remove certain capital expenditures which are now funded under customer contract, and includes a shift in classification of investments for various drone opportunities, which will be classified as a use of working capital in our operating cash flow as work in process or inventory rather than capital expenditures when incurred. The forecasted total investments for the year effectively remains unchanged at approximately $250 million-$270 million. However, the geography of where certain of these investments are reported on our cash flow statement have shifted between inventory or working capital and operating cash flow versus capital expenditures or investing cash flow.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Great. Thank you, Deanna. I'm going to turn it over to the moderator for questions.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder to ask the question, please press star one one on your telephone, then wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Sheila Kahyaoglu with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Sheila Kahyaoglu
Sheila Kahyaoglu
Analyst at Jefferies

Good afternoon, guys, and thanks so much.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Hi, Sheila.

Sheila Kahyaoglu
Sheila Kahyaoglu
Analyst at Jefferies

Eric and Deanna, great quarter on the growth side. The full year growth rate still implies a meaningful acceleration in the second half, and maybe I'll hone in specifically on hypersonics. Eric, I think you mentioned $400 million this year, still going to $700 million next year. How do you think about that in the second half, and how does that fit with some of the CapEx changes as well as we think about the growth?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. Go ahead, Deanna.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. For the hypersonic business, Sheila, the expectation going from Q2 to Q3 sequentially is approximately $20 million-$25 million of increase, and that same $20 million-$25 million, maybe up to $30 million incremental in Q4 from Q2's level.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The big piece operationally, Sheila, is our hypersonic system integration facility is operational now in Q3. We have multiple production lines, integration lines, if you will, for the motors that are now coming in and the flyers that'll be coming in. We integrate them, we have the launch manifest, and out they'll go. That op tempo increases Q3, Q4, and then it increases significantly in 2027, which we have the contract for and the funding for.

Sheila Kahyaoglu
Sheila Kahyaoglu
Analyst at Jefferies

Okay, got it. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Seth Seifman with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.

Seth Seifman
Seth Seifman
Analyst at J.P. Morgan

Yeah. Thanks very much. Good afternoon. I wanted to start off asking about the engine business. I think you've spoken a lot about the hypersonics business being sort of the fastest-growing piece of the company; It sounds like the engines have a bit of a chance to catch up. Maybe if you can give a little more color on the phasing of that and maybe the distinction between the turbofans and the turbojets, how the different pieces of that will ramp up—et's say, over the next two to three years—and how that will compare to where things are going on hypersonics.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep, very good. Let's talk turbojets first. Turbojets, think 250 pounds of thrust on down. This is our Spartan family, which we build in Michigan. These are not PowerPoints—these are all engines that work, that are flying today. I went through, Seth, the various programs. There are many more that are out there. There are literally, as I said, and you can see it in the budget justification docs in the J books, tens of thousands—multiple tens of thousands—of low-cost, $300,000 cruise missiles that are coming beginning next year. The ones publicly that I can talk about that we're designed in on, I'm probably going to miss some here, is JDAM-LR, Carrera. We're on several with Northrop Grumman. We're on several more with Lockheed Martin. The big one, of course, is JDAM-LR with Boeing.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We're designed in on all those. We're in on many others. We have a build plan that indicates what we need to build in 2027 and 2028 and 2029. We have leaned forward. We have placed the orders now for the components for 3,000 engines to be built in 2027. At least 3,000 for customers. We have a build plan where we're going to be ordering, as I mentioned in the remarks, the components for 5,000 more engines for 2028. I'm not going to give a specific number for 2029, but that could increase significantly. The selling price average for these is $50,000 each. That's those. On the turbofans. These are roughly, it can adjust 600 pounds of thrust on up. These are much bigger, much more sophisticated. These go in, as I mentioned, JASSM and LRASM.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

I gave you the numbers that have been publicized there on the increase for those two types of cruise missiles. There are several others we cannot talk about here because we're either under an NDA. That factory is going to be up and running, as I said, in the summer of 2027 in Oklahoma. It's mapped into missiles coming off the production line in late 2027, 2028. That will begin LRIP in 2028. That's the partnership with GE. It's a 50/50 partnership. Any numbers I give financially, just divide them by two because it's 50/50, and as I mentioned, there are thousands of those planned as well. Those are the 2 biggies for us, those turbojets and those turbofans.

Seth Seifman
Seth Seifman
Analyst at J.P. Morgan

Okay, excellent. Maybe just one to follow up on the guidance for this year. You mentioned some of the headwinds from the shekel. It seems like that's limiting some of the margin expansion that's happening here in Q2 and Q3. Is there anything else we should be aware of with regard to margin? Are there some mixed factors that are pushing the margin back up in Q4?

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Seth, you're correct. The biggest headwind that we're facing is that shekel impact. The impact for the second quarter was about $2.5 million, but the first quarter was much smaller at $300,000. The estimate that we are forecasting at this point is about $5 million-$7 million for the year. We're expecting that strength, unfortunately, to continue for the second half; that is some of the headwind. Otherwise, we would've expected to see more margin expansion in the third and fourth quarters. That's the single most significant headwind from a margin perspective.

Seth Seifman
Seth Seifman
Analyst at J.P. Morgan

Okay, great. Thanks very much.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Thanks.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Seth, some of those other platforms we're on, we're on CMMT or COMET, we're on Speed Racer, we're on Carrera, we're on Silver Fox, we're on Gray Wolf, and we're on Lumberjack in addition to JDAM-LR. Those are the public ones I can talk about.

Seth Seifman
Seth Seifman
Analyst at J.P. Morgan

Great. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Peter Arment with Baird. Your line is open.

Peter Arment
Peter Arment
Analyst at Baird

Thanks. Good afternoon, Eric and Deanna. Nice results. Hey, Eric, you mentioned Taiwan. Maybe you could give us an update on the developments with the Mighty Hornet; it certainly seems like it's well-positioned, and now sounds like there's some interest in Valkyrie. Maybe you could just give us a Taiwan download here.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

On the first one, the Mighty Hornet, which is a derivative of our Tactical Firejet, and this is one of the Kratos drones now that has a Kratos engine. I think it's another first for Kratos. We're the first company under the same roof that's building a plane and building an engine. We have flights coming up with the customer soon. I'm not allowed to give the specific dates. We're going to do some things, and we have to hit some things. Assuming they go well, the customer is talking about putting us into production first half of next year on the Mighty Hornet. Those would be produced initially in Oklahoma. On the Valkyrie derivative, I was very surprised that the customer came out and did the interview that they did. They talked about this.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

They talked about the reason that they want to do it is because the Valkyrie is flying. It's proven. It's flown with the Air Force. It's flown with the Marine Corps. It's deployed weapons. Very importantly, I believe they also talked about is it's rail-launched, but it also is runway capable, so it has incredible flexibility. They talked about a different propulsion type of aspect they wanted to have with the airplane. They're talking about making a decision also in the first half of next year. I have to leave it there because that's what they said, and I'm under an NDA, but both of those appear to be progressing very well for us.

Peter Arment
Peter Arment
Analyst at Baird

Terrific. Just could you give us an update on kind of overall production or capacity capabilities for Valkyrie now that things are starting to move forward on a number of different fronts? Thanks.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep. We're increasing our production rate right now, as I've talked about before. I believe as we get into 2027, we'll be up to 1.5 planes on average a month, so we'll be getting to 18. I had mentioned a couple of calls ago, I think, that we were looking to get on an average of 40. It's going to depend on the configuration where we ultimately get to that the customers want. For example, if the predominant number of the airplanes that the customer want are rail-launched or trolley-launched, we'll be closer to the 40 number. If the type of airplane that the customer wants is conventional takeoff or landing, CTOL, it'll be closer to a 35 number because they're a little bit more sophisticated to make in the factory, and the customer will want less of them.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We're tracking for a ramp in 2027 that as we head into 2028, we're going to be able to handle our U.S. customer. You know who that is. Hopefully, the Taiwan customer, and we have two other international customers I'm hoping we're going to be able to get through State Department, and we're going to be able to announce those very soon.

Peter Arment
Peter Arment
Analyst at Baird

Appreciate all the color. Thanks, Eric.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Mike Crawford with B. Riley Securities. Your line is open.

Mike Crawford
Mike Crawford
Analyst at B. Riley Securities

Thank you. I believe, Eric, in the beginning, you mentioned ERAM, that extended range attack munition, which I think is called the Rusty Dagger. Is that another one of the derivatives that's coming that's driving some of your engine growth?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

I cannot talk about any of those because of NDAs. I can't. The ones that I mentioned, to Seth, are the ones I can talk about.

Mike Crawford
Mike Crawford
Analyst at B. Riley Securities

Okay. Thank you. Just for the follow-up question, it's great to see that Valkyrie production rate rise at your expanded facility. In the past, you've also had a number of other CCA-type tactical unmanned aircraft—perhaps greater performance—that have been through various phases of development. Are any of those still in the running, or are we distilled now to Firejet and Valkyrie derivatives?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

No. There are two others that are in the running. Both of them now are classified. We are under contract on both of them, and one of them is in the release of weapons phase. In addition to Tactical Firejet and Valkyrie, there are two others that are under contract.

Mike Crawford
Mike Crawford
Analyst at B. Riley Securities

Great. Thank you very much.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

You're welcome.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Trevor Walsh with Citizens. Your line is open.

Trevor Walsh
Trevor Walsh
Analyst at Citizens

Great. Hey, Eric and Deanna. Thanks for taking the questions. Eric, maybe just a clarification. You called out the new GE engine that's going for some of the, I think, the increment to CCAs little higher thrust. It wasn't exactly clear as I read and we read the PR on that as to how you would be partnering with GE on that one. Could you maybe just either confirm or just explain if that's how that is either the same or different maybe than the first GEK engine, if you could?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep. Absolutely. We have a number of, I'll call them programs, going with GE. The one that's most public and that's most talked about is the GEK partnership, that's for a range of a certain thrust class. Think missiles. It falls into those missiles. That's a 50/50 partnership, and that's the one that I've been talking about. We're moving forward with them on those certain missile systems. We are also working with them in a contractor role. It's more than a contractor, it's a partnership role. I have to be careful here because we're under NDA, everyone that they've talked about, we're working on, that I'm aware of. If I'm missing any, I apologize. We are working on them. I would look at Kratos with GE.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

GE brings incredible depth, breadth, technology, credibility, capability, especially if you're talking building 10,000 jet engines that are going in $2 million cruise missiles. Kratos brings the ability to do very low-cost engineering and NRE and very low-cost mass production of those engines, which makes us a very formidable team. Just think of that on all of these small engines, how we're working with GE.

Trevor Walsh
Trevor Walsh
Analyst at Citizens

Great. That's terrific. Appreciate the added clarity there. Deanna, maybe a follow-up for you, Eric, feel free to chime in, too. I appreciate all the call-outs for the KGS growth rates across the different business lines. Pretty high double digits for a lot of those. It's probably easy, just based on the prepared remarks, to understand how durable the defense and rocket supports business growth rate is, probably turbine too.

Trevor Walsh
Trevor Walsh
Analyst at Citizens

As far as microwave products and space, I guess I'm just trying to understand as we think about modeling these out a little bit or just applying them to what we're doing is how much those latter two, again, the microwave and space, those percentages that you called out for this quarter, if that's sort of a decent foreseeable future, next couple of quarters into next year type of growth rate, or could there be some flux to those? Thank you.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

I think there may be some flux in the microwave one, but it'll still be meaningful. We're still forecasting meaningful growth rates, but they may be a little bit lower than what we just experienced in this last quarter. I think the space, satellite, and training, and cyber business, that should be probably along the same lines of what we just did in the second quarter.

Trevor Walsh
Trevor Walsh
Analyst at Citizens

Okay, great. Thanks, both. Appreciate it.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Sure. Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Jonathan Siegmann with Stifel. Your line is open.

Jonathan Siegmann
Jonathan Siegmann
Analyst at Stifel

Appreciate the time, Eric and Deanna. Congratulations on the strong results. Hoping you could maybe talk a little bit about, you guys have been through a couple cycles with sometimes when Washington throws a wrench at things. You've expressed a lot of confidence on the outlook, but just how you're thinking about maybe risks of extended time periods passed in a budget and any kind of interruptions that Washington might throw at you. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Our forecast basically assumes there's going to be a Q4 CRA. October, November, December, it'll get settled out sometime in January. That's kind of how we've modeled everything out because that's kind of what we've seen four out of the last five years. A significant amount of our work is program of record based, so it's in the base budget. It's in the base appropriation. We have some work that was in Reconciliation Bill one or Big Beautiful Bill one. A significant amount of that we have received the funding for. The money's been obligated. We've seen it. We are in pretty good shape on the $1 trillion spend for FY 2026, which was $850 plus $150. As we head into 2027, we're looking at a $1.15 trillion base.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

It's up 15% on the base; I think that's pretty bipartisan, and I think that's a minimum of what we're going to get. We all know, there's a Reconciliation 2, it's now called Reconciliation 4 for $350 billion to get 2027 potentially up to $1.5 trillion. My tummy tells me we're going to be somewhere between $1.15 trillion and $1.5 trillion. Even if we're not at $1.15 trillion, that's significant growth. Within that growth, as I think you can all see, in that bubble where there's only so much money, there's a huge shift going on to lower cost mass munitions. The future force structure for the foreseeable future, look at it like a barbell: on one side, there's going to be a ton of attritable expendable munitions, drones, missiles, etc. On the other side of the barbell, there's going to be a handful.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

There's always going to be exclusives of exquisite weapons and munitions; there not going to be much in the middle. As you know, we're the merchant supplier to both the new defense technology companies, and we're producing our own low-cost weapon systems as a prime on the left. On the right-hand side, we are the go-to military-grade hardware supplier to the primes on the exquisites. We feel pretty good about our spot irrespective of what may happen in the budget dynamics.

Jonathan Siegmann
Jonathan Siegmann
Analyst at Stifel

That's great. It sounds like we're just starting to see some contributions from the new CapEx. You mentioned the hypersonic facility opening Q3. Is there any other new capacity contributing to 2026 that we should be aware of, or is this all a 2027 contribution? Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. Remember Anaconda, which is our radar program. The Anaconda facility is underway. It's not ready yet, but because of the demand of what we're doing, we are already starting to work on SPY-1 radars; that is ramping a little bit in the second half of 2026. When this facility comes online middle of next year, this Anaconda anechoic chamber radar facility, radar refurbishment facility, is going to be one of the next legs up for us going into 2028. Again, we've got the contract, we've got the program, et cetera. The other one is Helios. Helios, we're going to be hopefully breaking ground on that later this year. That'll be up and ready to go end of 2027, beginning of 2028. This is a hypersonic system, arc chamber, and laser facility.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

A lot of the work is classified, that is going to be another leg for us step up in 2028.

Jonathan Siegmann
Jonathan Siegmann
Analyst at Stifel

Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep.

Operator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Andre Madrid with BTIG. Your line is open.

Andre Madrid
Andre Madrid
Analyst at BTIG

Eric, Deanna, thanks so much for taking my question.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Sure.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

You're welcome.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah.

Andre Madrid
Andre Madrid
Analyst at BTIG

In the same way that you provided color on kind of the step-up in the hypersonics business, can you provide something similar for KTT? Maybe if I could throw some numbers at you and maybe gauge your read of that, if that's all right. Is it safe to assume an incremental like $150 million next year related to the turbofans? If so, I know that the base business is pretty small, probably call it barely eight figures as of now. Excluding this, how should the rest of the KTT business grow into next year?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The forecasted big jump for 2027 over 2026 on the engines is the turbojets. That's the big jump, the turbojets. That's the low-cost cruise missiles, and if you guys know, you see what's required next year of the missiles that the airframers have got to put together and deliver next year, 2028, 2029, and the big step up, 2027, 2028, is the turbojets. On the turbofans, if everything comes together according to plan and according to the funding documents, 2028, that's going to begin. Then that steps up big time in 2029 and 2030. 2028, 2029 is where we will be at significant production rate for both, if the plan holds, for both the turbojets and the turbofans. KTT is in there, of course. Now, drilling down even more into KTT.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We have a lot of engine programs that I don't talk about, or we'd be here for hours. All right? We put out a press release in the past week or two on a critical element engine of a new weapon system. Okay? This is in KTT. If this goes into production, which would be second half of 2027, beginning of 2028, this could be a $200 million to $300 million a year run rate program by itself. But we don't talk about it because we can't. But we're designed in. It's ours. Okay? There's a space program where we are working on the propulsion system for the prime. If that program is a go, that's going to begin in KTT in 2028. We've got some biggies out there that we're designed in on. We're the guy.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

I think on the first one, we're under an exclusivity arrangement that if it goes, and I think it's going to go, it's in the funding docs, it's going to be another step up for us. That's kind of the framework on how we're looking at the two.

Andre Madrid
Andre Madrid
Analyst at BTIG

Got it, Eric. That's really helpful. I guess now pivoting maybe to unmanned systems. You added that organic growth of 10% to the guide, which is new. Can you provide us with a little more color on how that should progress through the second half and into 2027? I guess on that point, with the increase in 2026, should we assume some level of growth into 2027 as well? I'm pretty sure right now your preliminary 2027 outlook does not really account for much KUS contribution.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We have to be very careful here because of the customer. All right? We can't get into much details on this because then it'll give away what they're doing. You could probably tell in today's prepared remarks that I purposely, because it's the fact, tried to focus everybody on where we have very clear line of sight quarterly, yearly, the hypersonics, the engines, and the space business. Those three alone are just, they're ripping. Our space business is ripping, and a lot of the work is classified. On the drone side, we're going to be very cautious, and we may not be able to report it to you until we ship it, and it shows up in the numbers. Then we may not be able to say much about it, but you're going to know what it is.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

I'm sorry, I don't like to operate that way, but we have to based on what the customer's told us here.

Andre Madrid
Andre Madrid
Analyst at BTIG

No, I understand, and I appreciate what color you can give. Thanks for that, Eric. I'll leave it there.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Clarke Jeffries with Piper Sandler. Your line is open.

Clarke Jeffries
Clarke Jeffries
Analyst at Piper Sandler

Hello. Thank you for taking the question. Just sort of a clarifying question around that expansion that you did to Oklahoma City. Trying to put in context what you've said earlier in the call around maybe some upside with Mighty Hornet. Just how does this expansion kind of put you on track for expanding the sort of 165 high performance jet drones? Seems like Mighty Hornet or the Tactical Firejet would be early in fiscal 2027, but also, how much does the expansion explicitly help that 35-40 production run rate for Valkyrie in out years? Then one follow-up. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. Right now, as you said, I think we're the largest jet drone producer in the world that I'm aware of, maybe outside of the Ukraine, at 165 or 170 a year. The Oklahoma facility, and this ties back to a question Mr. Crawford asked. The Oklahoma facility right now is producing Valkyries, Tactical Firejet, and one other. We've just recently approved an expansion of the facility by another 50,000 sq ft or so. That is happening. Okay? That additional 50,000 sq ft is going to be needed for, it's a mix now. Valkyrie, Firejet, target drones. You can imagine with everything that's going on in the world right now, the target drones are in great demand because so many people are buying missile systems and radars. They've got to exercise the weapon system and train the crew. Okay?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

It's also going to be very important for Tactical Firejet and Mighty Hornet. Then very importantly, Mr. Crawford asked about some other drone programs. If one of these goes into production, I think it will second half next year, we're going to build that other one at this facility because it's going to have a classified space.

Clarke Jeffries
Clarke Jeffries
Analyst at Piper Sandler

Perfect. You talked about two months ago, maybe a month ago, $150 million single award for counter UAS, Solar Shield. Just curious, what's the expected timeline for that contract? Maybe help us think about what the opportunity for mobile C-UAS from the Department of Energy might look like long term. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. This is a very important program. We received, I forget the number, $30 million or $40 million of funding already right out of the chute. We have begun on this. This is part of our ramp, by the way, into Q4 of this year. One of the reasons we're comfortable with our Q4 is because of this program, and we got the funding for it. As you probably saw, this is with the Department of Energy, and it's related to securing nuclear assets. Okay? It's a mobile and transportable system. We are the prime system integrator. We are responsible for the entire system working, including the directed energy weapon system. If we're successful, I believe this program is going to grow, or this initiative is going to grow significantly because this type of a capability is needed right now, and we're the guy that has it at low cost.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We're doing these systems in Montana. That's the backdrop there. It's ramping now. It's going to be big in Q4, and it's going to continue to ramp into 2027.

Clarke Jeffries
Clarke Jeffries
Analyst at Piper Sandler

Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Pete Skibitski with Alembic Global. Your line is open.

Peter Skibitski
Peter Skibitski
Analyst at Alembic Global

Yeah, good evening, guys. Just want to review a couple of things. Eric, you mentioned the $7 billion in the FYDP for MACH-TB over five years. I guess, would it be reasonable for us to factor in that business being a billion-dollar-plus type of run rate starting in 2028 or so? Just on a basis of what?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Brother, yes. That's what's there. Go take a look at the justification documents. I'm not trying to be coy here because Deanna and I, we got a forecast for this year. We got an outline for next year. I don't want to get ahead of myself in any of this, but this is one of the reasons for the last couple calls, including today's call. I've been trying, as I said a minute ago, to orient the investors on our hypersonic franchise. It's growing rapidly, and if things come together the way you're indicating, which is there, this could be very substantive for the next five years.

Peter Skibitski
Peter Skibitski
Analyst at Alembic Global

Yeah, that's great. Okay.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah.

Peter Skibitski
Peter Skibitski
Analyst at Alembic Global

Thank you for that. Just shifting gears to JASSM and LRASM. Obviously, these missiles have been around for a long time, right? Is the dynamic that's going on, the DoD, they want a second source engine supplier, and you guys are filling that role. If that's a dynamic, what do you think your share would be on that when you kind of ramp?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah, it's a double dynamic. Obviously, the department is trying to foster the industrial base. They have the reindustrialization initiative I mentioned, and they want additional competition. The current provider on JASSM and LRASM is outstanding. It's an outstanding company. The CEO is outstanding. They're doing a great job. The quantities, as I mentioned, and those, I think, 10,000 or 11,000, they're incredible. They're going up three or four X a year. It's second source for national security purposes, and it's quantities and capacity to do it. I don't want to get into any numbers here in specific, GE and Kratos, we're looking at thousands of these over a period of time.

Peter Skibitski
Peter Skibitski
Analyst at Alembic Global

Yeah. Okay. That's great. Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep.

Operator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Austin Moeller with Canaccord. Your line is open.

Austin Moeller
Austin Moeller
Analyst at Canaccord

Hi. Good afternoon, Eric and Deanna. It seems like in the Iran war, there's been a pretty significant expenditure of both cruise missiles and rocket artillery. Just given the opportunity there to add turbojets or guidance kits onto what would be considered dumb bombs, do you have a sense of how many JDAMs, SDBs, or other dumb bombs are out there available for you to add turbojets or guidance kits to?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Tens and tens and tens of thousands. It's a great question. There are many numbers floating around on putting a wing kit on and bolting on a small turbojet. Now you have extended range and reach, and it's much more capable. The numbers are staggering. We have an initiative in Kratos that we've had going on, another one I just haven't talked about because I give you guys so much. You've heard about demilitarization, DEMIL. Think of what you just said, where you take old ordnance and you burn it, or you destroy it, or you take stuff out of it, and then you dispose of it. It's expensive to DEMIL. We have an initiative going in here. We're actually doing it. We're remilling it where it's less costly to repurpose an existing ordnance for something you just talked about, than it is to destroy it.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We're doing that under the radar, under the cover, because I don't want anybody else to figure out what we're doing. It ties exactly into what you're saying because of the amount of ordnance out there that is scheduled to be demilled, but we're remilling it. That's our plan, is to remill it.

Austin Moeller
Austin Moeller
Analyst at Canaccord

Okay. There's some large contracts that are starting to go out for the space component of Golden Dome. Do you have a sense on when we might start seeing already appropriated dollars, either from Big Beautiful Bill, which you say a lot of that's gone out, or from the 26th Space Force budget to purchase virtualized or software-defined ground system to support these satellites that are going to be going up?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

That's another great question. In the last three weeks, two companies were awarded a multi-billion dollar constellation for exactly what you're talking about. We are the ground for one of them with our software-defined command and control TT&C and tracking. We can't talk about it. I don't think we're ever going to be able to talk about it, but it's exactly what you just said, and our team won, and we're the ground. On other programs that we have, two of which we've announced in the last two quarters, we have seen significant funding, and it's increasing. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks where I said there's a hypersonic arms race going on. The big dog is the space arms race. We've all heard about LEO and MEO and GEO. VLEO is happening now.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

VLEO is another major opportunity area for Kratos because of the nature of our software-defined command and control.

Austin Moeller
Austin Moeller
Analyst at Canaccord

Great. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

You got it.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Ken Herbert with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Hey, Eric and Deanna. Good afternoon.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yes.

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Yeah, hey. You continue to call out pretty significant investment, $40 million-$45 million for the rocket system inventory build. Can you just update us, Eric, and apologies if I missed it, update us on what you're seeing on that supply chain, how you're handicapping risk on that supply chain as you think about the ramp of hypersonics and some of your other businesses, and sort of your optimism that that supply chain continues to get the kind of improvement and unlock that you need to see the ramp in your business.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep. Our Zeus solid rocket motors, L3 Aerojet is building them for us. They are doing an outstanding job for us. We don't have a, what I'll call a partnership agreement with them, but they're a true partner of Kratos. They are doing an incredible job. They have met every milestone on time, on budget. At least when it comes to Zeus, for us, they're doing a hell of a job, and part of it may be because they see the next five, seven years, what's coming in addition to what we've already done. Okay. On the second one, Oriole, this is our partner, Northrop Grumman at Northrop Orbital ATK. Ken, here again, when it comes to us, I can't speak for what I read in the press about other system issues. They are outstanding with us. We're getting ready.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We're looking at having to place another order for dozens and dozens more. They have been very accommodating. Again, they're on time and on schedule. I can only speak for Kratos. We do some other ones, but those are the two primary ones. L3Harris and Chris is great. Northrop Grumman and Kathy is great. They're just outstanding.

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Okay. Oh, that's excellent, Eric. To Prometheus and where you stand and some of the next major milestones as we think about that facility.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Ken, you broke up a little. When I think about which facility, buddy?

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Prometheus. Sorry.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Oh, great

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

there on the motor side.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. If you all haven't seen it, a podcast came out this morning on Prometheus with a major publication. It walks through the entire campus. It walks through the platforms. It walks through the timing. It walks through everything with our partner, Rafael. Go take a look at that for details on what I'm about to say. It's incredible. I didn't know it was coming out this morning, and it did. Ken, we are on track for first fire next year. We are on track with our partner, Rafael. I got to tell you, Rafael is outstanding. They are stable, outstanding, and they are bringing proven military-grade, qualified energetics. This is so far ahead of any of these other guys that are saying they're going to stand up an energetics facility. They got to get qualified, et cetera. We is.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

This is going to begin middle of next year. I think we'll get into production, what year is next year? 2027? 2028, we'll get into production.

Ken Herbert
Ken Herbert
Analyst at RBC Capital Markets

Great. Thanks, Eric.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Joe Gomes with Noble Capital. Your line is open.

Joseph Gomes
Joseph Gomes
Analyst at Noble Capital

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Hey, Joe.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Hi, Joe.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Good afternoon.

Joseph Gomes
Joseph Gomes
Analyst at Noble Capital

You guys are talking about the 3,000 and then the 5,000 Spartan starting to add up, or starting to get the ordering of the component parts later this year and into 2027. As you look at the supply chain there, are there any critical suppliers for certain parts or do you have multiple part suppliers for the components there that maybe we need to keep an eye on?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep. Joe, as you know, we have lots of Kratos-isms here. One of my favorite Kratos-isms is what's the most important part? It's the one you don't have to complete a system. We got to make sure every one of our vendors and every one of our suppliers, including their backup and the backup to the backup, is qualified. We're giving them production quantity, so they're in production and they're going through quality, through delivery, and through integration. Obviously, I'm not going to say we're bulletproof. This is so important to the company, to our company.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We are going to incredible lengths with the people we're bringing in from the auto industry, from the Department of Defense, from primes that are coming in to work with us, to work for Kratos, to set up these lines, work the supply chain, work the quality control and delivery schedules with them in redundancy. This is a huge effort because as I said, you just said, we're going to do a minimum of 3,000 next year, a minimum of 5,000 in 2028. It could be 8,000, 10,000 in 2029 if things come together. These are just the turbojets. We have to do the same thing with the turbofans beginning, as I said, we're going to start ordering for those probably, I said Q4 this year, Q1 next year.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Probably Q1, we're going to have to start ordering for those, then we'll make a very big order Q4 of 2027 or Q1 of 2028 because the factory will be set.

Joseph Gomes
Joseph Gomes
Analyst at Noble Capital

Okay, thanks for that. Then, Eric, just want to try and get your views on this or point me in the right direction here. As you know, there's a big private company out there, which I consider a peer in the same space as you guys that's been raising capital here at valuations, at multiples of where Kratos is trading at on an enterprise value to EBITDA or, excuse me, revenue basis. I'm wondering, am I incorrect? They are not a peer? Is there a disconnect something there that we saw Kratos stock run up, and now it's come back down. This private company is now saying there's rumors out there they're raising even more money at an even higher valuation, that just as I sit here looking at the two companies kind of shake my head. Just seeing, am I missing something?

Joseph Gomes
Joseph Gomes
Analyst at Noble Capital

I'm just trying to get your view as to what the disconnect there is.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. Anduril is an absolute peer of Kratos. We're peers. Okay? They have Lattice, their software that ties everything together. We have OpenSpace, our software that ties together space assets, space vehicles, space ground, et cetera. They have unmanned jet drones. Kratos has unmanned jet drones. You may have seen recently now they're getting into the hypersonic area. We're in the hypersonic area. Okay? They're in solid rocket motors. They acquired Adranos. They're in solid rocket motors. We're in solid rocket motors with our partners, and then also our new facility with Rafael. They are an outstanding company. I want them to succeed. The United States needs them to succeed. We are absolute peers, no question about it. The only difference I see. They're partners with us. We work together, and I can't talk about what we're working together on.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The only difference I see right now between the two of us is financial because they're private and we're public. Because they're private, they can take different approaches on things and invest more because they're not held to, yet, if they get public, then they'll be held to it. They're not held to certain matrices that a public company is held to. That might be an advantage for them. I have some advantages on them being public because it brings me access to certain things. From a valuation standpoint, I can't speak to that. I think I said on the last earnings call or the one before it, in my opinion, I'm the CEO, I drink the Kool-Aid. Kratos is the most valuable defense company there is. You listen to our calls, you look at our programs, look at our growth rates.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

We could grow 30% in Q4 and make money. Okay? We're going to keep going in 2027 and 2028. We're the most valuable one to our investors. We're the most valuable one to the Department, I'm sure they would say the same thing, that they are.

Joseph Gomes
Joseph Gomes
Analyst at Noble Capital

Okay, great. Thanks for that insight, Eric. I appreciate it.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Cashen Keeler with BNP Paribas. Your line is open.

Cashen Keeler
Cashen Keeler
Analyst at BNP Paribas

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the questions. You guys brought up a pair of facilities this year. You're bringing up some more next year. Can you maybe just talk about or quantify any startup costs related to ramping these? What the payback periods look like, and what sort of awards you might need to get to that 100 basis points of margin improvement, next year as well? Thanks.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah. I didn't hear the first part of your question. You said investing in, and then it blipped a little bit. Investing in what?

Cashen Keeler
Cashen Keeler
Analyst at BNP Paribas

Yeah, no, you just bringing up some more facilities next year.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah.

Cashen Keeler
Cashen Keeler
Analyst at BNP Paribas

Just curious on startup costs, related to ramping those and payback periods as well.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Oh, got it. Yeah. Good question. As a reminder, we don't do a build it and they will come. We don't do that. Okay. We built our hypersonic integration facility because we won the MACH-TB program and some other programs, so we knew what the operational tempo would be. We built a facility to satisfy that, plus some other things I think we're going to get. We did not build our new turbojet engine facility in Michigan until I was extremely comfortable that we were going to be designed in to multiple cruise missiles, which I went through today. We've just now broken ground on the facility in Oklahoma for the turbofans with our partner, GE. You've heard me talk about the programs. I can't get into much more detail than that, it is not a build it and hope they come.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

It is a build it because we have a program, or we have a partner, or we have a contract, and we can model out the quantities, we can model out the profitability, and we can model out the rate of return we're going to get on our investment. Anaconda, which I mentioned, the radar one. I think that's FY1. I think that that program was announced for us, goes through 2053 publicly for the radars. That's on Anaconda. On Helios, we've already got two or three customers signed up who said that if we built that arc jet facility for the hypersonic test, they would sign up. Everything we do, we've got a customer, a partner, a program, or funding, and we can do a rate of return calculation so we know we're getting an adequate rate of return for our investors.

Operator

Thank you.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

You're welcome.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Gabriel Flouret with Cantor Fitzgerald. Your line is open.

Gabriel Flouret
Gabriel Flouret
Analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald

Hi, good evening. This is Gabriel Flouret for Cantor Fitzgerald.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Hi.

Gabriel Flouret
Gabriel Flouret
Analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald

Can you discuss how your customers are talking about CCA volumes relative to their national security outlook? Specifically, where is Kratos seeing customer pricing or production schedule pull to the left? How should we think about that momentum versus U.S. production scaling?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

If you can see me, I'm smiling because that program, that is one you haven't heard me talk about that for a long time. I cannot talk about the CCA program with the Air Force. Can't talk about it. It is a super classified program. We can't say anything. On the Marine Corps CCA program, you saw how I said today it's been reported that the program of record is this much money. It's been reported. That's how I have to talk, because I'm not approved to talk about anything. Again, I'm sorry, but I just can't get into any of that because we do not have approval to discuss it.

Gabriel Flouret
Gabriel Flouret
Analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald

Okay, understood.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Okay.

Gabriel Flouret
Gabriel Flouret
Analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald

Thank you. We'll leave it there for this evening.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Okey doke.

Operator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Brian Dobson with Clear Street. Your line is open.

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

First of all, congrats on a great quarter. This is Jonah Henschel speaking on behalf of Brian Dobson here at Clear Street. Given the Valkyrie momentum you've described tonight, I'm curious what kind of updated color you can provide when it comes to the LRIP phase one timing.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The what phase?

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

What were the last few words you said?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yeah, the last part. You broke up. The what timing?

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

Sorry. The LRIP-

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

LRIP

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

phase one timing.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Oh, LRIP.

Deanna Lund
EVP and CFO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

The LRIP.

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

Yeah.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Sorry. Low-rate initial production. I got it. As I said in my prepared remarks, we expect to receive by the end of the year, an additional award, where we're partnered with Northrop on that MUX TACAIR program with Northrop and the Marines. That's all I can say right now, is that we expect something by the end of this calendar year.

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

Okay, understood. Just a quick follow-up. When Valkyrie ended up scaling, I'm curious, how can we think about margins in that segment?

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Right. Yeah, think 10%-15% EBITDA margin, depending on configuration. That's domestic. Very important, domestic. We got a number of international ones going, and the international ones are typically higher fee for us because they're international, and there are different aspects, and in certain instances, we're not held to TINA, Truth in Negotiations Act, because we're not sole source. International, think 15%-20%. Domestic, think 10%-15%, depending on configuration and quantity.

Jonah Henschel
Analyst at Clear Street

Understood, and thanks for the question.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Yep.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm showing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to turn the call back over to Eric for closing remarks.

Eric DeMarco
Eric DeMarco
President and CEO at Kratos Defense & Security Solutions

Great. Excellent. Thank you for joining us this afternoon, and I'll look forward to talking to you when we report Q3, I think in the first week of November. Thank you.

Operator

That concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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